Great video! I particularly liked the part about accenting a flaw instead of trying to cover it. And the contrasting wood grain filler is the perfect idea for my chair restoration. Thanks for the tips!
Great makers in the USA! Loved this one! A joy to watch your videos. Always inspiring and I admire your imagination to keep coming up with great ideas and sharing your knowledge. Well done. One Handed Maker - Australia
Thank you for your support of my channel. I subscribed to yours, and look forward to excellent content. You have a beautiful property, and I can see that I will get some great ideas from you. You are starting your channel way ahead of how I started mine. Your production value is WAY better than mine. I wish you all the luck in the future.
Yep, I've been using Timbermate as a grain filler for years. Can't compete with oil based fillers, but best for ease of use and I really like the finishes I get.
Wow. Nice. Very useful information. Finishes are very trying for me. Had I attempted the filler step before watching your video I would have been disappointed with the look after the sanding, would have considered it a failure and would have veered off the plan and tried to "fix it".
First, the COVID thing changed the dynamics of my real job. Now, wood is just too expensive to merit doing much. I'll get back to it when things get close to normal.
I'm refinishing stair treads - planed off the old paint and now filling cracks / nail holes. Then light stain (natural wood color) / lacquer / install / touchup. Would you recommend this product for stair treads?
You're not going to like my answer. It depends. What kind of wood is it? What level of smoothness do you want to achieve? Let's say the treads are oak. Since you want them light colored, I wouldn't use a contrasting grain filler, I'd use one that more closely matches the color of the wood. Oak, even with a nice finish, will usually allow you to still feel the grain. Many folks like that, and for stair treads it can be a good idea. Even small surface irregularities can give you more traction. Grain filler will make it really smooth, great for touching with hands, but not really practical for feet. All though it depends on what you want the end product to feel/look like, I'd probably not use grain filler.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 Loved your answer! Thank you for your detailed response. Going to skip it for this project but will try it down the road. Thanks!!
Do you know if applying sanding sealer prior to the ebony Timbermate will prevent overall darkening of the wood, while still allowing the deep grain to be filled? I tried applying this filler to wenge, and the contrast between the lighter and darker portions of the wood was significantly decreased - it seems like the filler might have gotten into some of the micropores of the more porous lighter portions of the wood, making it overall darker. I only want to fill the grain, but not darken any of the flat surfaces of the wood, if that makes sense.
It does make sense. Unfortunately though, the filler is doing its job by getting into ever pore it can, even the parts that appear "flat." I think sanding sealer might work, but you may need to thin it first. Depending on the brand, I assume you could use denatured alcohol to do the thinning.
What brand do you use? I’m only now learning about grain fillers. I don’t know if I was just lucky, but my first few projects, I didn’t get any pores. But since working with Wenge, black Limba and African Mahagony it’s been a major issue. I’m not sure if I’ve just started to make more mistakes, or if some wood is just more prone to it than others. Like with Gabbon Ebony, maybe I just wasn’t seeing it. Thanks a lot for any replies ahead of time.
I tend to use tinted epoxies so the imperfections are accented. Sometimes I'll use a black or brown to tone it down a little, but my preference is the accent. I didn't add any color to the filler, just bought it in ebony. Timbermate makes colors to match almost any wood, so I keep dark brown, ebony, and birch colors on hand. Suits most of my needs.
I do that sometimes too, but usually only to hide my mistakes, not hide a flaw in the wood. For structural issues like cracks, I'll either use the glue trick or throw some tinted epoxy in it.
In most cases, don't we want to accent the grain, at least I do. I have used a light coat of black spray paint to make the grain show. Thank for the tip.
Can i use the black grain filler on my guitar and then color stain over it? say if i use a alcoholbased grain filler and put some waterbased stain over it, would that work without mixing each other to a muddy color?
Let's talk about that. If you used oil based grain filler, then water based stain, the stain could raise the grain of the wood, causing you to have to sand it again, causing you to have to apply more stain. This could give you an uneven color, or may cause it to be darker than you want. For this reason, if you start with oil based filler, I'd stick with oil based everything. BUT, and this is a huge BUT, you can experiment with a scrap piece of wood first to decide if it will work. Theoretically, if you allow each step to fully cure it shouldn't be a problem as far as things blending together, but there is still the grain raising problem. Ideally, after you grain fill with either water or oil based grain filler that is fully cured, use an alcohol based dye instead of stain (TransTint mixed with denatured alcohol - very short cure time), and then the finish of your choice, although I'd recommend danish oil or something similar. You can also use pretty much any spray finish you want, but no shellac. It's alcohol based too, and may cause the dye to do funky things.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 Thank you for the detailed step by step explanation. The amount of possibilities one has in coloring and finishing a guitar is pretty overwhelming to me. I'm still looking for the best way to get the result i desire ( which is the accented wood grain with some sort of glossy transparent green on top, wether it be dye or stain or whatever). I'llcheck out the alcohol based dyes. Thanks a lot
Could I suggest you watch my video "building a six string bass / color me crazy." That video and the remaing videos in the series shows my problems and accidental successes in the finishing process I used.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 I've only read about using them, but India ink on ash or red oak is supposed to give an intense ebony like result. There is also some very colorful dyes like dharma acid dye that bring out the grain in a very unnatural but beautiful way. It seemed like something you would have played with.
I have used dyes extensively, but mainly just to change the color of the wood (i.e. guitar bodies) because I hate painting nice wood. I accidentally discovered the dye/grain thing when I dyed some zebrawood for a fretboard. I hated the result so I tried to sand the dye away. What I discovered, because the zebrawood was so porous, was that the dye really latched onto the grain. It was beautiful, although very unnatural looking.
My go to finish of several coats of danish oil, let cure for a couple of days, then one final step: wet sand with 1000 grit using danish oil thinned with mineral spirits 1:1 ratio. Glass.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 how long do you leave between coats of danish. Looking to try this on my oak desk and grain fill with dark (maybe walnut color) filler. I was thinking of putting a layer of poly on top for extra protection?
@@SafMan89 In a perfect world, the first two coats of danish are about 30 minutes apart. Both of these coats are flood coats, wiping off the excess after about 20 minutes. This is just to get the wood to soak it up. Then 24 hours between subsequent coats as many times as you can stand. However, if you're going to do poly, I'd only do one additional coat after the flood coats. I'm in high humidity Georgia, so on that poly, I'd give it double the cure time before I put the table to use. If you're going to use oil based poly, on the last coat of poly, I'd thin it 50/50 with mineral spirits, and apply it using the French polish method. Plenty of videos on that method, and it does a fantastic job. And it's easy.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 thanks. I was considering water based poly as I was a bit worried about oil based poly excessively yellowing. I heard water based would be fine if I let the danish oil cure for a while longer?
@@SafMan89 I have tested this and found it to work. However, I let the Danish oil cure for about a month. However, to be honest, I wouldn't do it on something like a table. If it goes wrong, it can be too big to fix. But I can be overly cautious sometimes.
Is it wise to contrast grain fill black limba? My bass was built poorly by Knightro Guitars, and he left almost no oil finish on the bass and is essentially bare wood. The piece is highly contrasted and buisy naturally, but since I will be starting fresh and filling the wood and finishing with spar Urethane, would adding a grain filler to this wood enhance it's already nice grain? or make it look muddled and bad? Thanks!
My suggestion, having built a few guitars, is not to use spar urethane. It will be sticky when you sweat on it and be unpleasant to the touch. I would get it ready for finish, sanding to about 220. Following the directions on the can, I'd use Danish oil, flooding the wood with oil, then wipe off the excess after 10 minutes. Then do that again, and after wiping it down, let it sit for 24 hours. Then, with at least 500 grit wet or dry sandpaper, wet sand the entire body using Danish oil as the lubricant. This will create its own grain filler with the sanding dust and oil. Wipe off the excess and let cure for 24 hours. Repeat the same thing with 1000 grit paper and let cure for 48 hours. Finish off with a very thin coat of Danish oil, let cure for about 3 days and you're done. I know it seems like a long process, but you will have a glassy finish that will look and feel incredible. I did this with a padouk guitar, a very porous wood, and it is still fantastic after many years.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 Thanks! the only reason why I didn't want to do Poly, tung, nitro ect. is because of the crazy long cure time- sure I have other instruments to play, but I have very little patience for leaving a project to wait. But if I can be playing in a week, that is tolerable for me! The funny you should mention Padouk, the neck is a single piece of the stuff, from what I can tell, the very thin coat of odie's was enough to seal it, but I might just do the neck at the same time, it's set-neck and I would probably feel the extra layers on the body and none on the neck. Again, thanks for the info, time to find supplies and pull the bass apart (I just did a week ago to shield the cavities.)
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 Well, I'm finished with my 4th coat (2 flood coats and 2 500 grit wet sand coats) and unfortunately there are no signs that the Danish oil is going to build up to a gloss or a semi-gloss- I think I filled the pores pretty well by wet sanding and pushing the slurry across the grain- I can still feel them but for the most part it's very smooth- but it looks raw aside of a slightly darker color tone. Now the paduk neck feels smoother and has some sheen to it. I think I have a incredibly lightweight and porous piece here as it feels and sands like Basswood almost like balsa, simply lightly dragging a finger nail across the wood will leave a line where the wood is compressed. I will keep at it, but considering putting de-waxed shellac on top for some extra protection.
I was trying to send you a picture of my jointer with black uhmw tape applied. To rust proof it. I don't think that's an option thru CZcams, so I'll comment again when the video is up. I currently have no public videos up, but I'm sure you'll be interested in this tool modification. Don't know if it'll last. The plastic tape is way softer than I though. Take care.
Subscribed but I disagree. I personally feel like the contrast on the piece is too much. It looks like old wood thats had years worth of grime and grease worked into it. But to each their own.
Great video! I particularly liked the part about accenting a flaw instead of trying to cover it. And the contrasting wood grain filler is the perfect idea for my chair restoration. Thanks for the tips!
Great makers in the USA! Loved this one!
A joy to watch your videos.
Always inspiring and I admire your imagination to keep coming up with great ideas and sharing your knowledge.
Well done.
One Handed Maker - Australia
Perfect video. Straight to the point. I have been debating a dark, contrasting grain filler and now I am convinced.
I have watched most all your videos. You have encouraged me to start my own channel. It’s a slow start but I am enjoying the journey. Thank you.
Thank you for your support of my channel. I subscribed to yours, and look forward to excellent content. You have a beautiful property, and I can see that I will get some great ideas from you. You are starting your channel way ahead of how I started mine. Your production value is WAY better than mine. I wish you all the luck in the future.
Honestly the best video about grain filler I've seen.
Very nice Rob. I don’t think I have ever seen that type of comparison. Convinced me...
Thanks Paul, I really appreciate your support.
Yep, I've been using Timbermate as a grain filler for years. Can't compete with oil based fillers, but best for ease of use and I really like the finishes I get.
I never used grain filler, but I know there were times I should have. I want to get some and try this. Thanks.
Thanks for the consistency tips, very comical add, but more importantly, very useful!
Wow. Nice. Very useful information. Finishes are very trying for me. Had I attempted the filler step before watching your video I would have been disappointed with the look after the sanding, would have considered it a failure and would have veered off the plan and tried to "fix it".
Very helpful video. Thanks.
This is something I didnt know personally. Thank you Franklin!
Nice reminder, thumbs up 👍
Where you been? Miss you’re videos.
First, the COVID thing changed the dynamics of my real job. Now, wood is just too expensive to merit doing much. I'll get back to it when things get close to normal.
Wow, it definitively changes the style.
Wow is right. Great demonstration.
Wow, thanks for the tip.
Thanks, great video!
LOVE THIS...thank you for the great info.
I tiny bit of music in the background and you aced it lol love the tips!!!
Nice tip. Thanks!
Nice! Keep on Rockin🤘🏼
You can also use tinted epoxy. They really penetrate and get hard . They are also chemical resistant .
Yes! Very useful for certain situations. I like to use it on spalted wood to harden up the parts that may be a little soft.
I'm refinishing stair treads - planed off the old paint and now filling cracks / nail holes. Then light stain (natural wood color) / lacquer / install / touchup. Would you recommend this product for stair treads?
You're not going to like my answer. It depends. What kind of wood is it? What level of smoothness do you want to achieve? Let's say the treads are oak. Since you want them light colored, I wouldn't use a contrasting grain filler, I'd use one that more closely matches the color of the wood. Oak, even with a nice finish, will usually allow you to still feel the grain. Many folks like that, and for stair treads it can be a good idea. Even small surface irregularities can give you more traction. Grain filler will make it really smooth, great for touching with hands, but not really practical for feet. All though it depends on what you want the end product to feel/look like, I'd probably not use grain filler.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 Loved your answer! Thank you for your detailed response. Going to skip it for this project but will try it down the road. Thanks!!
Do you know if applying sanding sealer prior to the ebony Timbermate will prevent overall darkening of the wood, while still allowing the deep grain to be filled? I tried applying this filler to wenge, and the contrast between the lighter and darker portions of the wood was significantly decreased - it seems like the filler might have gotten into some of the micropores of the more porous lighter portions of the wood, making it overall darker. I only want to fill the grain, but not darken any of the flat surfaces of the wood, if that makes sense.
It does make sense. Unfortunately though, the filler is doing its job by getting into ever pore it can, even the parts that appear "flat." I think sanding sealer might work, but you may need to thin it first. Depending on the brand, I assume you could use denatured alcohol to do the thinning.
Use some shellac first or use a clear water based filler, that's what I use works good.
Woodcraft stores carry Timbermate. You can walk in the store and buy it.
Also, Zpoxy (yes it is an epoxy) is an excellent grain filler. You will have to buy that one online.
I've debated between Zpoxy and dark rosewood grain filler for the mahogany I have. I chose the contrast over the depth.
What brand do you use?
I’m only now learning about grain fillers.
I don’t know if I was just lucky, but my first few projects, I didn’t get any pores.
But since working with Wenge, black Limba and African Mahagony it’s been a major issue.
I’m not sure if I’ve just started to make more mistakes, or if some wood is just more prone to it than others.
Like with Gabbon Ebony, maybe I just wasn’t seeing it.
Thanks a lot for any replies ahead of time.
that guitar intro almost sounded like Prince's song "When Doves Cry"
just curious, why the blue tinted epoxy? did you add color to the filler, if so what kind? Thanks! Great video!
I tend to use tinted epoxies so the imperfections are accented. Sometimes I'll use a black or brown to tone it down a little, but my preference is the accent. I didn't add any color to the filler, just bought it in ebony. Timbermate makes colors to match almost any wood, so I keep dark brown, ebony, and birch colors on hand. Suits most of my needs.
Great vid but I do like the one on the right better.
Wow that's super I used to.fill a crack in with glue and wood dust from my planer and mix it fill.the crack the sand smooth
I do that sometimes too, but usually only to hide my mistakes, not hide a flaw in the wood. For structural issues like cracks, I'll either use the glue trick or throw some tinted epoxy in it.
In most cases, don't we want to accent the grain, at least I do. I have used a light coat of black spray paint to make the grain show. Thank for the tip.
Can i use the black grain filler on my guitar and then color stain over it? say if i use a alcoholbased grain filler and put some waterbased stain over it, would that work without mixing each other to a muddy color?
Let's talk about that. If you used oil based grain filler, then water based stain, the stain could raise the grain of the wood, causing you to have to sand it again, causing you to have to apply more stain. This could give you an uneven color, or may cause it to be darker than you want. For this reason, if you start with oil based filler, I'd stick with oil based everything. BUT, and this is a huge BUT, you can experiment with a scrap piece of wood first to decide if it will work. Theoretically, if you allow each step to fully cure it shouldn't be a problem as far as things blending together, but there is still the grain raising problem. Ideally, after you grain fill with either water or oil based grain filler that is fully cured, use an alcohol based dye instead of stain (TransTint mixed with denatured alcohol - very short cure time), and then the finish of your choice, although I'd recommend danish oil or something similar. You can also use pretty much any spray finish you want, but no shellac. It's alcohol based too, and may cause the dye to do funky things.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 Thank you for the detailed step by step explanation. The amount of possibilities one has in coloring and finishing a guitar is pretty overwhelming to me. I'm still looking for the best way to get the result i desire ( which is the accented wood grain with some sort of glossy transparent green on top, wether it be dye or stain or whatever). I'llcheck out the alcohol based dyes. Thanks a lot
Could I suggest you watch my video "building a six string bass / color me crazy." That video and the remaing videos in the series shows my problems and accidental successes in the finishing process I used.
Do you do only one coat of wood filler please
Thanks for the informational video! Which grit sandpaper do you use to sand off the grain filler?
Generally I'll use 220, since that is what I use as my final grit before applying finish.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 many thanks!
thank you for the tip. Have you ever done anything with ink?
No. What kind of ink are you talking about?
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 I've only read about using them, but India ink on ash or red oak is supposed to give an intense ebony like result. There is also some very colorful dyes like dharma acid dye that bring out the grain in a very unnatural but beautiful way. It seemed like something you would have played with.
I have used dyes extensively, but mainly just to change the color of the wood (i.e. guitar bodies) because I hate painting nice wood. I accidentally discovered the dye/grain thing when I dyed some zebrawood for a fretboard. I hated the result so I tried to sand the dye away. What I discovered, because the zebrawood was so porous, was that the dye really latched onto the grain. It was beautiful, although very unnatural looking.
Does anybody know if I can use awater based wood filler and then a oil polyurethane?
Yes you can. My go-to finish is always oil of some type.
Great video! What finish did you use on the final filled piece?
My go to finish of several coats of danish oil, let cure for a couple of days, then one final step: wet sand with 1000 grit using danish oil thinned with mineral spirits 1:1 ratio. Glass.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 how long do you leave between coats of danish. Looking to try this on my oak desk and grain fill with dark (maybe walnut color) filler. I was thinking of putting a layer of poly on top for extra protection?
@@SafMan89 In a perfect world, the first two coats of danish are about 30 minutes apart. Both of these coats are flood coats, wiping off the excess after about 20 minutes. This is just to get the wood to soak it up. Then 24 hours between subsequent coats as many times as you can stand. However, if you're going to do poly, I'd only do one additional coat after the flood coats. I'm in high humidity Georgia, so on that poly, I'd give it double the cure time before I put the table to use. If you're going to use oil based poly, on the last coat of poly, I'd thin it 50/50 with mineral spirits, and apply it using the French polish method. Plenty of videos on that method, and it does a fantastic job. And it's easy.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 thanks. I was considering water based poly as I was a bit worried about oil based poly excessively yellowing. I heard water based would be fine if I let the danish oil cure for a while longer?
@@SafMan89 I have tested this and found it to work. However, I let the Danish oil cure for about a month. However, to be honest, I wouldn't do it on something like a table. If it goes wrong, it can be too big to fix. But I can be overly cautious sometimes.
Timber mate not in uk
Is it wise to contrast grain fill black limba? My bass was built poorly by Knightro Guitars, and he left almost no oil finish on the bass and is essentially bare wood.
The piece is highly contrasted and buisy naturally, but since I will be starting fresh and filling the wood and finishing with spar Urethane, would adding a grain filler to this wood enhance it's already nice grain? or make it look muddled and bad?
Thanks!
My suggestion, having built a few guitars, is not to use spar urethane. It will be sticky when you sweat on it and be unpleasant to the touch. I would get it ready for finish, sanding to about 220. Following the directions on the can, I'd use Danish oil, flooding the wood with oil, then wipe off the excess after 10 minutes. Then do that again, and after wiping it down, let it sit for 24 hours. Then, with at least 500 grit wet or dry sandpaper, wet sand the entire body using Danish oil as the lubricant. This will create its own grain filler with the sanding dust and oil. Wipe off the excess and let cure for 24 hours. Repeat the same thing with 1000 grit paper and let cure for 48 hours. Finish off with a very thin coat of Danish oil, let cure for about 3 days and you're done. I know it seems like a long process, but you will have a glassy finish that will look and feel incredible. I did this with a padouk guitar, a very porous wood, and it is still fantastic after many years.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 Thanks! the only reason why I didn't want to do Poly, tung, nitro ect. is because of the crazy long cure time- sure I have other instruments to play, but I have very little patience for leaving a project to wait.
But if I can be playing in a week, that is tolerable for me!
The funny you should mention Padouk, the neck is a single piece of the stuff, from what I can tell, the very thin coat of odie's was enough to seal it, but I might just do the neck at the same time, it's set-neck and I would probably feel the extra layers on the body and none on the neck.
Again, thanks for the info, time to find supplies and pull the bass apart (I just did a week ago to shield the cavities.)
I would really appreciate it if you would send me some pictures when you're finished.
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 Sure, hopefully it actually turns out nice, finishing/luthier work is not my "hat".
@@FranklinWoodWorks2016 Well, I'm finished with my 4th coat (2 flood coats and 2 500 grit wet sand coats) and unfortunately there are no signs that the Danish oil is going to build up to a gloss or a semi-gloss- I think I filled the pores pretty well by wet sanding and pushing the slurry across the grain- I can still feel them but for the most part it's very smooth- but it looks raw aside of a slightly darker color tone.
Now the paduk neck feels smoother and has some sheen to it.
I think I have a incredibly lightweight and porous piece here as it feels and sands like Basswood almost like balsa, simply lightly dragging a finger nail across the wood will leave a line where the wood is compressed.
I will keep at it, but considering putting de-waxed shellac on top for some extra protection.
You mentioned God! Nice! I hope you believe in and know God! Jesus loves you...Bless you!
Anyone else think it just makes it look dirty?
I was trying to send you a picture of my jointer with black uhmw tape applied.
To rust proof it. I don't think that's an option thru CZcams, so I'll comment again when the video is up.
I currently have no public videos up, but I'm sure you'll be interested in this tool modification. Don't know if it'll last. The plastic tape is way softer than I though.
Take care.
Subscribed but I disagree. I personally feel like the contrast on the piece is too much. It looks like old wood thats had years worth of grime and grease worked into it. But to each their own.