Front Porch railings- Please STOP doing this.
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- Historic houses have great-looking porches, somehow in the last 100 years, we've forgotten how to build porches and porch railings. Come learn 2 or 3 tricks for getting that great historic look.
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Brent Hull
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Thank you! It’s awful how many historic railings I’ve been ruined or removed because of code concerns. Texas Victorian Era Architect W. C. Dodson’s own house he designed in Waco was recently ruined by this type of wrong thinking. Instead of a simple additive rail the new owners ripped out Dodson’s unique original design for some goofy Home Depot replacement.
It's really a shame. Thanks for sharing. I didn't know that about his house.
Brent I found out about you and your company through looking for window restoration tutorials in 2020 after my parents bought a 100 year old house, and coming across your videos on the Build Show site. At that time, there wasn’t much on your CZcams channel, it was all on the other site. I am please to see how much is posted here since then, and I am really looking forward to catching up! I am a student in a woodworking program at Cerritos College, currently learning furniture making and cabinetry, but I have an interest in historic homes and buildings, and restoration/preservation carpentry that I would like to explore!
Awesome! Go for it and let me know if I can help. Would love to help where I can.
So true! Great video.
Thanks for watching!
I have been putting off replacing the exterior balustrade on our front porch roof because the new would be taller than the existing balustrade at ground level. It never occurred to me that I could do a safety rail. Thank you!!!
Go for it! Thanks for watching.
Very good information, thanks Brent
My pleasure! Thanks for watching.
Great job! Couldn’t agree more!
Thanks!
Awesome videos. Mr. Brent Hull
Thanks for watching!
Thanks. Love your videos.
Glad you like them! Thanks
Great job on this video! Lots of great pointers! Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
@@BrentHull yes. I have been working to deal with the local historical architectural board (CHAP) here in Baltimore on my long term Queen Anne renovation project and am trying to tie in elements of my front porch (which had the original columns and railings removed/replaced by a prior owner) with my garden/landscaping plan. What you discussed will go a long way to helping me make the curb appeal for the overall property a lot more impactful.
Haha. I went round and round with this goofball inspector regarding a widow's walk. He insisted on 42 inches even though there was no humanly possible access to the damn area. This should have been a maximum of 24 inches and he wasn't budging. It looked absolutely rediculous and a year later my customer had me rip it down and basically cut it in half. Sans permit 😅 Neener Neener neener
Doesn't surprise me. Thanks for watching.
That reminds me of the health and safety officer, who says it has be done this way, and that’s it.
Not installing something like would have avoided the inspectors attention. Leave it off the plans. Install it after as ornimentation.
Sounds like a lot of work unit youve had the fights with inspectors making things up.
Second send a picture of something similar to the city's engineers and they'll give you an email stating its not a walking surface so it doesnt need a rail.
Attach that when you submit plans. Or have it on hand if you decide to do it after.
The code issue is what I was wondering about. Thanks for the clarification.
Glad to help
@@BrentHullI would go a step further and argue that it’s not just beauty it’s psychology in architecture
I have also noticed builders will space balustrades to code which adds too much space in between. Historically, the space between each balustrade was 1.5 to 2 inches. In new work, I see the space at 4 inches (to code). The same can be said for stair balustrades.
Word!
@@BrentHull How do you handle the spacing on large balusters? If you have a large traditional turning, it difficult to space them close enough to prevent a 4" sphere from passing through. Are there any rules on the positive vs negative space, and how do you handle the code issue when the spacing looks to tight.
So you need to keep them too wide? Wouldn't the code give a minimum space not maximum?
@@kurtvonfricken6829 It's a maximum spacing that you should not exceed (so that a 4" diameter sphere may not pass through). You may make them closer if you like.
That cage on the new house at the beginning has the ludicrous stucco corner that are everywhere on mcmansions.
Yes I've worked on d mansions with a stone capped stucco finished corner but brick or a corner balustrade piece.
its a problem. Thx.
Code is for speed, durability and safety mostly. Visual appeal is for the master.
Word!
Here in the UK most historic houses that don't have an opening on the second floor don't have any railing because nobody can get out
That's the way it should be here.
Your video content is so valuable. Please lose the distracting, unnecessary background music distracting from the important content you teach us. At least lower the music sound. Otherwise, absolutely love your videos!
Noted. Thx.
Right on mark here. I agree wholeheartedly. Far too often people just do the basic minimum as per code. Building houses is an art form which takes time...
Agreed!! Thanks.
I always view “code” as a D-, it’s the bear minimum to pass. Spent a bit more time and money and at least always am for an A, If budget doesn’t allow then no less than a C. If that isn’t in the budget, pass on the job. Because your name will be forever attached to that job.
I agree 100%. Think outside the box on how to make things beautiful. Most builders just want the easy way out and use code as an excuse.
Cool, thanks for sharing.
Absolutely, find the balance between the two. Make the effort to create something beautiful.
Absolutely! Thx
Another great video...AND!!!...MESSAGE...!!!
Code is absolutely the "minimum standard," has NOTHING to do with actual function (or even actual safety..." perceived risk vs actual risk"... of what an Accuary or related Risk Management professional the honestly consider quantifiable aspects of what true risk really is.) Often a given element of "code" can be challenged for "variance" if the situation is approached constructively and with some grace.
I've used (more than once!) synthetic Dyneema 6mm cord (sometimes thinner!!!) as a "rail" which has more than enough strength to meet "live load" capacity for railings (average strength is 7000 lb and min is 3000 lb for this size.) This type of railing is "added" to the specification of a plan to satisfy a given "local standard in code" (whatever that might be?) and thus solves the problem and is very unobtrusive...PLUS!!!...the client (all mine have) has the option later, per their own discretion to unclip these and remove them, thereby achieving the proper historic perspective for an aesthetically pleasing railing in the proper proportion for a given project...
Thanks for another great presentation!!!
Great idea, I may steal that, I hadn't thought of going that thin. Thanks.
@@BrentHull Hope you get to employ this method. It works wonderfully for "checking the box" when some Code Officer has their 'knickers in a knot" about a give railing system. Add the Dyneema Chord and they have nothing to complain about...What happens later is up to the client...
You (or any readers here) need more detail, feel free to reach out...!!!
Looking forward to the next video!
I remember being on a few jobs many years ago that an secondary rail was added to past code and then the homeowner was planning to remove it after passing code. Not what I would do, but it's their house.
Also in Michigan you don't need guards if its under 30", a lot better than the 18" you referred to.
Thanks for the feedback. I figured code changes by region, I just don't know about them all. Cheers.
Yeah, 32" in Denver. I'm having a fight with them now because they claim IRC covers the retaining wall in my back yard that's permitted through the wastewater/runoff department.
Already sent a picture of a hotel in town without handrails on a retaining wall to the city engineer. They agreed with me.
Planning 28” rail on an 11 foot porch.
Will use the black pipe above for the 2nd floor balcony.
Nice. Well done.
One more technical question so it’s perfect, how many inches should there be between the foot rail and the porch floor?
And even # of columns to create odd # of spaces.
Agreed.
May have built the railings up to the height that looks visually correct, then attached a cheap “safety” rail to appease Big Brother. A few months later they somehow disappeared.
Weird, the same thing happened on some of our jobs. Thanks.
Isnt it only for areas designed as a n outdoor space with a door access that requires a safety rail?
yes.
The "code sniffers" are everywhere. People say it all the time in an attempt to look smart. Screaming "That's a code violation!" seems to make a lot of people really happy.
I couldn't agree more. Drives me nuts.
Entry stair railings have the same challenge of the modern 36" +-2" code requirement and being historically low, with the added challenge of daily graspable handrail use. I have an 1895 staircase that's rotting off the house with non-graspably 6" wide rail and 6" x 24" turned newels. Cables or glass panels between steel balusters are typical solutions, but of materials well past 1895.
Best solution I've come up with is wrought iron matching the fence, but it'll be the only iron on the house. What solutions have others come up with for historic entry stairs?
If you look at historic millwork catalogs. You will see a couple of solutions they had. There are ways to make that big handrail more graspable. Good luck!
OK, I'll stir the pot here. It would be interesting to survey people like the new urbanists to determine the most damaging changes to design paradigms. Personally, I find the expulsion of mixed use zoning and multi-family housing to be some of the worst changes to occur. But the list is pretty long. As for houses? Fugedaboutit !
Haha. THanks.
Great stuff bud :) proportions are king but try to work with code.
Thanks for watching!!
Brent what song do you use the guitar one
as my editor.
wheres your editorr@@BrentHull
This reminds me of finish carpentry tv doing a plastic balustrade a while back.
What’s your thoughts on that Brent?🙊🤣🤣
Richard and I have laughed about that.
Interestingly, the design of the product wasn't terrible. Maybe its one redeeming quality. LOL
@BrentHull Yeah Brent you have to admit if youre going to spread design down the market it's going to have to be PCV or fiberglass. Get to making some designs, include directions for welding the materials to avoid all the miter cracks that mid market doesn't have the time to fix/avoid.
Code would put shock collars on humans if they thought it would make us a fraction of a percentage safer. lol.
haha true.
That great Brent, yes the people who make the codes no nothing about design, it’s like the health and safety officers in England , they know nothing about actually working as a carpenter.
Word!
😊
Thx
NOT recomending this buuuut...
Nice stairway that didnt have code handles at the corners and the top was a couple inch to big.
Put in a standard handrail attached to the wall and stairway and staoned it to match.
Pulled it a week after CO, then patched and painted.
Thanks for the tips! Agreed
Code should be a guide to your design not a restriction.
Unfortunately...
@@BrentHull True. Too many it seems like “oh there’s a code?? Good I don’t have to think about it then”.
Yeah the best bar handrail fix was a single 7-8' pieces of steel set back and curved. Only attached at the corners and posts.