Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
New Player Rates Classic MTG Cards
Vložit
- čas přidán 14. 08. 2024
- Were you one of the rare geniuses that knew Oko would be good? Anika and Carl play Staple or Stinker as Anika tries to guess how good 5 classically misjudged cards are.
See the cards mentioned in the video and their prices here: bit.ly/3b1Q47R
_______________________________
！Opinions expressed in this video are those of the author/video creator and not necessarily Cardmarket.
➥ Buy and Sell your cards: 🛒
www.cmkt.co/v
➥ Compete in Europe's largest Cardgame Tournament:
www.cardmarket...
You can find us on:
👾Twitch: / cardmarket_magic
📷 Instagram: / cardmarket_magic
📘Facebook: / cardmarketmagic
🐦Twitter: / cardmarketmagic
Here are the cards mentioned in today's video: bit.ly/3b1Q47R
These aren’t classic cards. Trashcan video title
Echoing what Zimo Y said in the comments too. I like these video concepts a lot but think ya'll would have much more interesting content if you focused more on both: picking cards that are more explicitly 'stinkers' and give more grounded explanations about format(s), color pie context, and "what role is this card trying to do and why exactly it fails". There's so much interesting talk to be had about getting into the nitty/gritty of why many seemingly great cards fail.
@@davidhowell1415 By definition, about half of the cards have to be stinkers ;) Fury and Ledger Shredder are only recent staples but it's hard to argue that they are not modern classics. The point of the series is to aim for cards that were originally misevaluated. Cards that where either overhyped and ended up not seeing much play, or cards that no one looked twice at but jumped up in price after people got a chance to play with them a little.
@@CardmarketMagic classic cards
I don’t care if they have to be stinkers just make them CLASSIC modern masters is the oldest set you showed you even had cards from sets that are still in print.
@@CardmarketMagic your title should read “ New Player Rates MTG Cards “ these aren’t classic magic cards
As to your “point” you could have done the same thing with urzas block as the Newest cards shown and still been able to do the video.
I’m not trash talking about anything else. It’s literally that one word in your title. It’s deceiving by design and you know it is even in the masters sets you did show had reprints from actual classic sets you could have used one of those. The shoals are a case and point they fit your theme. Do better
"You never call a good card in mill a staple"
I don't even play mill and I feel like I just got stabbed in the heart. You can't just go around throwing daggers like that!
It's not a staple, because it's only played in 1 deck in 1 format. It's very niche.
@@taylorbates4742 Visions of Beyond? Yeah no, that's a trash card. Even if it's played in mill, which I don't think it is, it takes too much setup to make it work. I don't see how it looked like I was defending that card.
Mill however, did not deserve that beating. They _at least_ introduced Drown in the Loch to non-mill strategies for a while.
@@ebbandfloatzel I've seen mill decks perform well with visions in the deck. You can frequently get to 20 cards in graveyard before you run out of steam and want to draw more. If you look up modern decklists for mill it's usually played in 3 or 4 copies.
@@ebbandfloatzel It is absolutely played in mill, and doesn't take much set up to use
I used to play mill but everyone gets so violent about it for some reason
Carl basically gave it away: look at a card. If it seems busted, it's a stinker. If it's fine but not that great, we got a staple.
and I was looking at that Shredder, thinking this looks pretty good actually, so must be a stinker
Shredder looked absolutely amazing so not really a hard and fast rule.
I guess that both of you were right about this specific card than. Good job! Most other people were not, as suggested by Carl.
@@maxwornowizki422 To be fair one of my favourite decks is B/U with a heavy graveyard focus so it kinda stood out as absolutely everything I want lol. I can understand people not seeing it at first as a more generally great card.
what kinda game is this?
"Never give your opponent a choice" is still the stumbling block of so much analysis. Cards that ostensibly give your opponent a choice that saw play (like Gifts Ungiven) worked because the bet was always hedged in your favor and your opponent's choice was at best mitigating the impact and at worst an illusion.
Vexing Devil is so good for this format for a newer player.
not to forget that risk factor saw a lot of play in standard
"EOTFOFYL" ("At the end of your turn: I cast Fact or Fiction. You lose.") was a common phrase/acronym for a loooooooooong time because of how good Fact or Fiction was. FoF got restricted in Vintage and banned in Legacy in 2001, wasn't unbanned in Legacy until 2004 (when the Legacy and Vintage ban/restricted lists were separated), and finally got unrestricted in 2011. FoF still crops up every once in a while in formats where it's legal.
Definitely a major learning curve and giving your opponents choices is always a fun thing to watch new players interact with (especially if you're the one casting Gifts Ungiven with 4 targets!). 😄
Yeah, stuff like reservoir kraken and shakedown heavy give the choice between "horrible" and "horrible but different" which are usually really good for the mana cost. I feel people overestimate the price of giving the opponent a choice.
Gifts Ungiven is broken because the opponents choice is an illusion 100% of the time. Like even when it was in standard, the pile of kokusho, hana kami, soulless revival, stir the grave always got to loop kokusho no matter what they picked. There's just too many redundant and recursive effects in magic
I Remember playing around with vexing devil in standard, this was back when Shrine of Burning rage and Bonfire of the Damned were in the format - there was a lot of good burn spells but a lack of real quality red creatures so you had to take what you could get.
I'm fairly certain that Temporal Mastery, Vexing Devil, and Visions of Beyond have all seen a fair amount of play at various times at least in Modern, the latter two being more apt to still see play now. Are we talking "staple now" or "ever been a staple"?
Also Temporal Mastery won a Pro Tour immediately after being printed. It was a niche deck that very few people played, but it won so it was clearly quite good.
i think the premise is that the cards were all presumed to be absolutely busted but largely fell flat in comparison to their expectations.
I played temporal mastery in standard and it was way better than people thought. I was playing RuG wolfrun and it was bonkers being on turn 5 when your opponent is on turn 3
@@default7621 since the idea is to decide between staple or stinker, I don't think those cards are 100% suitable for this video format
Temporal mastery is still sick, if you imprint a mystical tutor onto isochron scepter, it's one of my favorite targets to snowball
Most of the stinkers this time weren't real stinkers, just cards that were overrated at first - Mastery is def not broken but fine; playable in edh in most decks that have blue (and therefore mystical tutor). Vexing devil is alright on rate but is inferior to other choices modern burn has (regarding the 'never give opp choices' part, it would be better explained as a modal spell, but in reverse - a modal spell is multiple below-par effect that you get a choice of, so the increased flexibility makes up for the inefficiency. Cards that give the opponent choices, called 'punisher' cards, offer multiple above-par effects but the opponent gets to choose which one hurts them less, which reduces the effectiveness of the spell. So in the end cards that give opponents choices aren't always bad, but are just worse than each individual option on the card makes it look). Visions is a poor choice for this video IMO because it sees consistent play in the one archetype that can enable it, so while it's not a staple, it still has a clear home, so it's neither stinker/underperformer nor staple.
Vexing devil saw play in standard burn. Temporal mastery is a 4 of in modern time warp. And visions is a 4 of in modern mill
@@gcleeman Standard is just best of what's a limited pool. Doesn't mean Devil is good. Time Warp is a bad deck and so is mill. You're not making a good defense here on these bad cards.
Temporal Mastery is also played in Legacy Miracles, which is a good deck and staple of the meta.
You have these cards in your collection. Don’t feel bad. I do too
@@TheeKrix I actually don't have any of them other than mastery which I bought for edh. I started playing way after all of them were out of standard and haven't had a reason to get any :P
This series is so much better than other similar videos. In other channels they ask "Is it good" and you get a myriad of answers that aren't definitive and even hosts that don't give a direct answer. In this series you ask the question " Is it an eternal widely used staple or is it basically niche garbage" which puts pressure on the guest to make a decision. This series also has some of the best card selection and play experience/information seen with these cards. GOOD JOB.
As a mill player in modern, I can agree that it is the only place visions should be played, but it is a staple in mill
I think Visions is slightly underrated as a card in dedicated mill decks. Anika said what I think a lot of players think when they see Visions, "it just sits in your hand all game and when you can't get 20 cards in the graveyard!" People forget you can always just cycle the card and draw 1. You see the same thing with cards like Quicken.
If you hand that same person a card like Hieroglyphic Illumination, they'd read the text and would cycle the card when they understand they need something else RIGHT NOW instead of waiting for 4 mana. Removing the text that says "cycling" but keep the card functionally the same, and they forget all about just drawing a card for U.
Mark Rosewater talked about how during playtesting for kicker cards or french vanilla creatures, people would lose more games with 2/2s for 1G that had a bunch of abilities than if they just used good ol' fashioned Grizzly Bears. There's some weird psychological shit going on where sometimes we forget how to play Magic.
If a card is staple in a single deck, this card cannot be considered a stinker... To me Visions is an good card in a weak strategy
In commander, 20 cards in a graveyard can happen really quickly. Chances are at least one of your opponents actually wants to fill their graveyard and play from it.
I have a commander deck with several combos, many of them ending with win by self mill. Visions is really good when you need to draw from your empty library (since your library is either exiled or in your hand).
The deck has a chance of winning on turn 2. In that scenario you really need to draw for a maximum of 1 mana (gitaxian probe is another staple for increasing the chances of this combo).
PS: I've never managed to win turn 2, but turn 3-4 has happened (getting both mana crypt and sol ring on the starting hand with other combo pieces is not very likely). Otherwise it ends with a cycle of Sharuum + Clone with etb or death triggers or any Ursa infinite combo (often draw entire deck, because you have inf mana, and then just self mill win).
With Tasha laugh that card became sometimes useless..
@@frenkscimmia4142 yeah, having anti-synergy with what is probably the best mill spell is kind of a shame for the card. It's still a draw 1 though, which is fine in a pinch
do the X series where you do staple or stinker with exclusively cards with X in the mana.
They harder to evaluate smart
Just Aurelia's fury, would be entertaining to see the reaction even though I believe it was shown on a previous episode
@@carl74z it was
The X Factor
Temporal mastery was not a stinker. I've seen people get it countered, and god only knows how long later in the game it gets snapcastered. Legacy U/W miracles was a sus deck lol
Vexing Devil is such a good pick for this series. Every new player (including me when I saw it) immediately thought it was a 4 damage lightning bolt which is broken. But of course that’s an ideal turn 1 scenario and once you play it for a few matches it falls apart
I feel like if it had Haste, it'd be way stronger. A big problem with it is it can't attack the turn it's summoned, but if it could swing in straight away and cause big problems for defenders, then that choice of whether to take 4 or let it live would be way more painful, and it'd be more playable.
I wonder how many times you need to resurrect it with cheapest black reanimates for 1 drips until it’s good
I still like it I run it in my mono red burn deck
@@LabSkaterPussies You should swap it out for Grim Lavamancer, Light Up the Stage, Shock, Seal of Fire, or basically any red 1-drop that isn't Vexing Devil. I'm assuming you're already playing Monastery Swiftspear, Goblin Guide, Eidolon of the Great Revel, and 4x of each of the 1 mana 3 damage burn spells?
Also, It's really funny when Vexing Devil gets compared to Lightning Bolt because Vexing Devil may as well read: "If your opponent has a card named Lightning Bolt in their hand, Vexing Devil becomes blue and Lightning Bolt becomes Blue Elemental Blast."
if i saw someone across playing Vexing Devil, I would have to respect it, not bad card in the slightest
Temporal Mastery and other miracle cards have to constantly be re-evaluated in eternal formats. The more ways they print to manipulate your top-deck, the more powerful they become. Brainstorm, Sensei's Divining Top, and more and more scry published with every set are just a few things I can think of.
I got Ledger Shredder on a pack recently, and I did not realise it was so good until I re-read the card after seeing the price on Cardmarket being way way bigger than I expected
Temporal Mastery isn't what I'd call a stinker. It's a staple for cube or taking turns in modern. Perhaps not as much as people thought during AVR spoiler season, but still a staple
I'd agree with your take- and not that this means too much, but Alexander Hayne did win the block constructed Pro Tour with 4 of Temporal Mastery in the main deck, but he was the only one in the top 8 to run any copies of it, so... it's somewhere in the middle.
I'd say it's neither a staple or a stinker
Vexing devil won modern GPs. Visions of Beyond won a standard SCG open.
Not saying these cards are staples, but they're not "Stinkers"
@@Zetimenvec Just because a card is in a deck that won doesn't mean the card itself is necessarily good. Perhaps the archetype itself was just strongly positioned within the metagame at the time. They were typically not very strong in the deck they were in but at the time had nothing better to play over it.
@@tonysmith9905 A card you can call "strongly positioned" at any point in time shouldn't be labeled "stinker" . That's kind of my whole point. Also decks with temporal mastery did well in both standard and modern after being printed. Most of these examples are from modern which is hardly a format that is sparse for choice, even during its debut.
I remember people poo-poo'ing Fury. I was like "I can tell who has never been blown out by Pyrokinesis before." And then they got blown out by Fury and then they understood how ridiculously powerful a 0-mana worst cast 2-for-2 is.
Total Top 8's according to MTGTop8:
Temporal Mastery - 869
Fury - 2693 (+669 sideboards)
Vexing Devil - 723 (+4 sideboards)
Ledger Shredder - 777 (+14 sideboards)
Visions of Beyond - 370
What is your criteria for staple?
I know this comment is a year old, but it's really eating at me that I can't say anything about this because I'm too late.
I think the staple or stinker format just doesn't work. It's fine if you have actual genuine examples, but they're trying to use "noob traps" here, and I just frankly don't agree with their choices.
Like you said, the criteria just doesn't make sense. Temporal Mastery saw a ton of play, Vexing Devil did as well. Vexing Devil was *never* straight up bad, but we're acting like it entirely worthless now?
I am not an expert by any means. But I really struggle with some of the judgment calls I'm seeing in these staple or stinker videos.
You hurt me with both the Temporal Mastery and Vexing Devil. During the first week of Avacyn Restored being out, I kept opening both of those 2 cards specifically and I was already figuring they weren't good, so I kept trying to trade them off pretty much as soon as I opened them. I couldn't trade them all away fast enough and eventually their quality caught on and their prices crashed and I was stuck there with low value cards I couldn't get rid of anymore.
I lucked out when I opened Vexing Devils because they were still going for $8 a pop. Immediately traded the two or three I opened when I was grinding FNMs for Avacyn Restored packs trying to get Cavern of Souls.
Hey. Tell people to check and make sure they are subscribed if they think they already are. I thought I was, and utterly by chance, I just noticed I wasn’t. I thought I was because I always get your videos in my home feed. I am now.
You're the best!
Can you do a Staple TO Stinker or Stinker TO Staple version? Cards that were 100% a staple that something changed and now see no play, or cards that were straight bad to have, but something changed and now they are a Staple?
Oh cmon now, vexing devil was so underrated for so long. I played it as a 2 of in modern burn for so long. It was just a turn 1 boros charm 90% of the time. The way I put it was that I always liked it better than grim lavamancer, so I played it in that slot. Both cards are bad if your opponent has the removal spell for it. Also, when the vexing devil is dealing damage, it is dealing the 4 right away, rather than waiting 3 turns to do that same damage (and for a lot more mana). Sure grim had the potential to do more damage, but it required having spells in the graveyard and many more turns. Often, burn games just don't last long enough for me to think grim is better in most cases. Especially since they will usually find a removal spell for grim well before it deals the 4 damage. Where as vexing can do it all in one swing.
People will say that you shouldn't play it ever, and I certainly wouldn't play the card in the current modern format. But I can say that, around 5 years ago, I think it was perfectly serviceable. It was obviously like the 59th and 60th cards in the deck, the first cuts. But something needs to be the last card that you put in, and I never found a different creature/spell at the time that I wanted instead.
I immediately tried Ledger Shredder in Arclight Phoenix on Arena (day 1).
Since I hadn't seen anybody else talk about it, I wasn't sure how good it was going to be.
But I tried it anyway, and it didn't take long for everybody else to figure out how good it was too.
Hi, i am a big fan of this series, i would recommend to make a "staple or stinker" playlist to make those videos easier to find.
This is my favorite series on this channel and i think other people feel the same.
Will do! That's a good idea!
This format is very fun, would love to see something like this done with classic Magic cards
A nice inverse of this would be getting a spike to do this for Casual EDH cards.
I know Ledger Shredder is OP, because I just drafted it and it carried me. Fucking insane card. It's like a beefy floating Monk of the Open Hand that also fixes your hand for just two mana. You could build a deck around this card, like Soul Warden, Champion of fhe Perished, or Llanowar Elves. It's a lot of value for a low cost. Reminds me of my dear Cryptbreaker
I dunno about the "never give the opponent the choice" ... that might be applicable for vexing devils but for a card like browbeat, which has been a staple for a long time, both options are so good that it does not matter what your opponent chooses.
Giving your your opponent a choice isn't always preventing a card from becoming a stable though 😄
Shakedown Heavy and Sheoldred's Verdict are stables for instance.
Hopeless Nightmare has already become a stable as well. It is a very powerful 1 drop card. Does quite a lot.
On its own it can be bad against decks that heavily utilizes their graveyard to win the game. The opponent could just discard a card that they actually wanted to have in their graveyard in the first place. But if you also use something like Lord Skitter (which is also already a stable), then it's actually pretty good. And then Hopeless Nightmare becomes a card that gives your opponent an ultimatum instead of a potential gift 😆
The lesson with cards like Vexing Devils is not just "never give your opponent the choice", the deeper lesson is that consistency > power. And that applies to so much more than just punisher mechanics. You don't play expensive and/or easily countered cards ("dies to removal") unless they have some immediate value like an ETB effect, because you should want your cards to consistently be valuable more than you should want them to be inconsistently powerful. Games of magic are very often balanced on a knife's edge where either player can easily run away with it. And cards that have the potential to not do anything useful therefore also have the potential to let your opponent be the player who runs away with the game.
Keep these comin guys you're Killin it! Absolutely love this series, it's been invaluable as a new player
Thanks! Will do!
Happy to see that sub counter growing, this channel has been such a great find! So much fun.
Us too!
please keep making this content. i just recently found you and its like a breath of fresh air to my stale, tired, 15+ year mtg love affair
Did not realize my Ledger Shredders had climbed that high. Very glad I picked them up for $4 each right when they were starting to break into Legacy as a fringe card.
It baffled me that people passed over Fury. It's the only one in the cycle that is not (always) card disadvantage if you evoke it. It can effectively function as two zero-mana removal spells. Potential 3-for-1 if you manage to hardcast it is cool too.
Personally, I think that Vexing Devil might not be a staple, but in Mono Red it's still a good card. A creature with 4 power for 1 mana, or a 4 damage lightning bolt, you're going to be happy either way. It just happens to be the worse of the two options whenever you play it, but both options are great at their best, and still OK at their worst.
1 mana for 4 damage to face is worst on turn one. But it's not uncommon to just bolt face on turn one for mono red. A 1 mana 4 power creature is worst on the last turn of the game where the opponent has 3 or less life and you'd rather bolt their face. But a 1 mana 4 power creature is still a pretty good play even then.
I guess it depends on whether you have 60 other cards that are better than that. In modern, you might.
you basically spent your time writing 3 paragraphs to say "i am completely unfamiliar with the context the card is evaluated in" lmao
also bolting face turn 1 is a terrible play even in burn, if a burn player does that to you their hand is shit and you'll win
Lightning bolt isn't good because it can do 3 damage to your opponent on turn 1. It's good because it can kill just about any creature your opponent is likely to play on turn 1, 2, or 3.
sorry but the title is preety wrong , i would not say that cards introduced in new capena or modern horizons 2 should be considered classic cards
Visions of Beyond is a beautiful card, the art is really cool. Also Muldrotha can play that in Commander hahaha
Daily reminder that Wizards fired the artist, Terese Nielsen.
@@golDroger88 On what reason?
I loved Anika! Please have her on again sometime
ah, I got 4/5! Fooled by the last card, I play a lot of self mill so there was a lot of bias in my thinking.
In Commander Temporal Mastery can be used with Aminatou (as top deck manipulation is part or her shtick) and Yuriko (I mean, free 7 damage to each opponent)
Great to see how quickly the channel is growing. Such good content
Yeah thanks to people like you!
If Carl is correct about people thinking Ledger Shredder was forgettable I'd be shocked. When I first saw that card I nearly lost my shit at how good it was. Not to mention, I reread the card and realized it's any player (so you can trigger it yourself), and it's even better.
"This would be good in Commander."
"Have you ever seen it in Commander?"
"Good point."
I remember turning ledger shredder over as a treasure token at prerelease.
In my defense, I opend almost no other blue and just grabbed a random card without looking at it
Not as good of an example, but I remember getting a foil tireless tracker during release day SOI draft about midway through pack 3
Ledger Shredder was indeed overlooked a lot during prerelease. I included it in my Brokers deck as a curve filler and I played the whole prerelease unsleeved because I was pretty sure it was just a bulk rare.
Isn't Visions still played in mill
It's a power house there.
@@sefisyara5961 What I was gonna say. Its recall in mill. While mill can be hit or miss depending on the meta, its always floating around. It has actually gotten a few good bombs the last couple years, like the second crab and the D&D exile library card.
@@fenixiliusstrife1253 Exactly. If they marked it as stinker, then so should they mark Delver of Secrets for example, because just like Visions you have to build around it. Delver in most decks would be terrible, his power is in the amount of ways to protect him and to flip him as soon as possible ran by Delver decks. Outside of Delver decks, it's a 1/1 that can be occasionally transformed into a 3/2 flyer with no investments but his casting cost, but easy to remove if not backed up by counter spells, which would make him a stinker in this series too.
@@sefisyara5961 The problem with that argument is that while Delver is a tier 1 deck in most formats where it sees play (legacy/modern), mill tends to struggle, especially post sideboard with cards like Endurance and the like floating around. The best mill decks are things like painter’s servant/4 horsemen, which are combo decks that rely on mill to close out a a game.
I really do think trying to break it into two categories is kinda a problem here: visions of beyond for instance is actually very good in any deck that wants to keep mana floating around for playing a reactive instant or two, if any mana makes it back to your turn you tap it to play that before your upkeep and congrats! you just shrank your deck! ANY method to shrink your deck at a low opportunity cost is an excellent card in nearly any deck and this card is going to have that low cost in any blue deck that likes playing instants.
just because you don't get the excellent secondary trigger in most games doesn't mean it is a bad card. it's not a universal must-have like having a god damned counterspell you can play for 2 life that suddenly needs to be in nearly any deck no matter what archetype but it is by no means _bad_ it's a card with a job and a niche that does it's job in that niche and it even scales into lategame, that's pretty much exactly what anyone trying to create a balanced card is aiming to make.
...I guess you could complain about the trigger? they can't exactly print it as "if a graveyard has 17.3 or more cards in it, draw 3 cards instead." but I doubt MTG's playerbase would shy away from it not being rounded off to the nearest 10 if they tried to balance it a bit closer.
Temporal Mastery was way more flexible than it looks since Miracle also works on your opponent's turn as long as you have a way to draw a card. If you ran a blue deck that didn't draw cards something was wrong.
Idk how people didn’t see ledger shredder as OP. A flying wall that gets bigger and also lets you cycle through your deck in blue, for 2 mana. And that’s before I realized it works for your opponents turn too
I love this series! You get such cool guests, she is great!
I think Vexing Devil could work if it had haste/trample and 4/4 so its outside of bolt range
You need to set up Temporal Mastery to use it well. If you just rely on luck to use its Miracle ability, it's likely to go off when you're not ready to use the extra turn to its best effect.
Yeah but again as a counterpoint, in Legacy, a format where every blue deck plays 4 Brainstorm, this card is unplayable. This card is basically a brick until you have a way to set it up, and that also means that you can't use Brainstorm for card advantage whenever you want, you have to save it for the setup too. Basically all UWX control decks in Legacy have phased out Terminus for largely the same reason, and because better cards have been printed since.
Another thing to point out about temporal mastery is that you exile it after it gets used, so you'd have a much harder time using it in combos, time walk you can reuse with any card that pulls a card from your graveyard, meaning you can get multiple turns in a row and if your opponent can't counter it the first time, they certainly won't counter it the next umpteen times
Ya'll did Vexing Devil dirty. Sure, it's not a guaranteed 4 Damage to the Face for 1. It lets the opponent choose to take the damage or not. But if they choose not to, it's STILL a 4/3 for 1 mana. That is a really good ratio of power/toughness to mana cost.
Just started watching the channel like 3 days ago and thought that this was my favorite series, thank you for reading my mind
Welcome aboard!
I feel like I was one of the only people who actually thought Ledger Shredder was good during preview season.
Definitely should’ve picked one up for my cube before it jumped to $15
Connive seems like a poor ability in some decks, but when mated with a reanimator or discard/sacrifice type deck then it actually works well. My second and third favorites behind Ledger Shredder are Raffine (Scheming Seer) and Security Bypass.
Vexing Devil, in standard, was definitely a staple. It didn't matter. 4 damage was 4 damage. I remember when it was a $20 card.
It only was 20$ for a few weeks until people realized how bad it was. That's the point of including it here :) it was a trap and many people briefly fell for it. For the rest of it's time in standard, it was shown as an example of something that looks good on paper but falls flat once you try it 👍 it quickly went down to about 1-3$
What do you think of "Visions of Beyond"
"I really love that art"
Will never get over how they treated Terese, her illustrations were always miles away from others
what's ur definition on a staple? cuz In certain decks, the "stinkers" are staples... but like u said in the video... they had to jump thru hoops to make it better...
As a commander player, I can definitely see where Anika is coming from with Vision from Beyond. Mill decks in edh can be brutal, and getting 20 cards in a GY is nothing.
But, I also know 60-card formats enough to know mill is awful in them.
Mill in most formats is basically a really bad version of Burn. Lightning Bolt in Burn takes out ~15% of your opponent's life total. You win when you cast 7 Lightning Bolts. With Mill, your opponent starts with 53 life, so milling 5 cards is only 9% of their "life." So you need 11 "mill 5 cards" to win, which translates to your opponent having more turns and you needing to draw more burn spells.
@@nekrataali That's not the real problem with mill, the main problem is that mill doesn't really synergize with anything except itself. At least you can pair burn spells with creatures that do damage to have multiple avenues of attack.
"Visions of Beyond is not a Staple" is like claiming Hedron Crab is not a staple.
Blatant lie.
I think it's neither staple nor stinker, Visions is a good card but only see play in Mill which isn't even tier 2
Vision of beyond is a stable in mill.
Yes but mill is never viable.
Great content … I would say some cards are not ‘Classic’ … I would have thought all of them would be older.
vexing devil is insane and a must have for mono red. its as good as goblin guide for sure, and if Ragavan wasn't real vexing devil would see tons of play. giving a player a choice between two major consequences is not the weakness he's making it out to be
I have some really bad news for you 😅
I would love to hear her read Magic cards all day!
Ledger Shredder had me confused when it was first released, I really underestimated how large its toughness was and the frequency of double-spelling. At least I sung praises for Fable of the Mirror Breaker when that was spoiled.
ledger shredder is taking over Arena!!
I'm quite glad I got a Ledger Shredder from my prerelease bonus boosters, just in case I wanna use it somewhere, cause there is zero chance I'd ever buy it. lol
Anika knew all of these, it was fun seeing her play along
Well not quite 😅 it would defeat the point of the video if she knew of any of those cards
@@CardmarketMagic okay on watching a 2nd time I realize I misstated that. She did well to recognize the cards values, yet she did not nail each card correctly. And you picked some tough cards. That's gotta be the true beauty of magic, from draft to constructed, it's about accurately assigning value to each card as relates to the current situation!
I knew ledger shredder immediately, it helps when you pull a card and then see it’s monetary value
Best mtg content on CZcams keep it going!
Wow, thanks!
Can't say I agree with this, especially to a new player.
Temporal Mastery, is a great card. I use it in quite a few decks and it's great. With Sage Owls and Brainstorms in my WU bird deck, this is a great card which works out all the time.
Vexing Devil, built my cousin a mono-red burn deck built around Heat Stroke. This card is great. Giving your opponent a choice in the outcome of a card isn't always a bad thing when you include a card in your deck and you're happy with either outcome. my personal favorite card for this example: Browbeat.
Visions of Beyond - 1 mana 1 draw, or if conditions qualify, draw 3. I would love this in my Niv-Mizzet decks, but I don't want to pay the adult dollars for it so I have other options.
I think to a new player, this format of reviewing cards as Staples or Stinkers basically turns into a conversation stating "This card is bad because other people don't use it", and that's confusing to new players and I feel creates a pay to win dialog of always looking to what other people use instead of the laborious task of researching sets and finding cards that speak to you.
The statistical facts of whether cards ARE being used and adopted by lots of players is something that can be tracked and logged from uploaded deck lists and tournament footage/documentation, so that could be a different conversation.
All and All, I don't hate this idea, but I think there's room for improvement.
Encourage new players to explore, deck build with jank, and see what works and what doesn't.
People tried to make Vexing Devil and Temporal Mastery work. A lot. They where just not good enough to see play in competitive formats.
"i disagree with video because i am a casual player who doesn't understand the game on a competitive level"
lol
The video is focused on competitive play, so their rubric and evaluations are going to be different than casual or EDH. Jank is much easier to pull off in casual.
@@kuru-chan6644 i can smell the cheeto dust through the screen
@@lillianoftheveil then they need to use a word other than stinker, a card not being the best of the best doesn't make it a stinker
There's also the fact that some cards don't seem that great on their own, but combo beautifully with others. For example, "Illusions of Grandeur" seems like a stinker... until people figured out how to unload it on their opponent with "Donate".
Yeah, Vexing Devil is less bad if your deck only cares about your opponent's life total, meaning it's a 1 drop that's a 4/3 without a drawback or it's a 4 damage bolt if they don't have an answer to Devil in hand. That said, if you use removal on Devil you've likely spent more than it was worth, since you could have saved your removal and had 4 less life, which sounds fairly good most of the time. The only deck where I really feel like Devil makes a lot of sense is Burn, where it's an efficient beater or an efficient bolt, both sides of the card are good value for R.
Temporal Mastery was in the deck that won a PT, Innistrad Block Constructed.
Temporal Mastery and Visions of Beyond are stinkers? I'm confused. Are there more than one new player in the video?
The key with that conniver that turns it from a meh card to a busted card is that it works for all players. Suddenly, YOU can play multiple cards per turn without fear of running out of gas but your opponents CAN'T. and that's just off one card. whew.
Temporal mastery is simply not a stinker, it might not be a staple, but it's a cheap extra turn which is never a bad thing and sometimes it's a great thing.
The reason temporal mastery is known as a stinker is because it confuses new players into thinking it is reliably a "cheap" extra turn spell ;)
She seems like a very good MTG player for someone that is a new player
Tricky episode... visons sees play in a niche deck. I could see Vexing Devil and Temporal going either way depending on the format. Both pretty medium.
The point of the video is to show famously misjudged cards. Vexing Devil, for example, is not an awful card. It's just nowhere close to as broken people thought it would originally be. People were actually calling for wizards to ban temporal mastery before it came out, but it ended up only seeing play in some block decks.
@@CardmarketMagic yeah, but that's not a stinker, is it? ;)
Have to disagree about the devil. Modern burn had those as staples for quite some time before Eidolon and Swiftspear came around.
Thats not even close to being true.
Yeah, Vexing Devil is definitely not a stinker.
@@techfour4921 lightning bolt, goblin guide, lavamancer, rift bolt, lava spike, vexing devil, boros charm, keldon marauders, some copies of skull crack, searing blaze, shard volley and burning blood... something along those lines sounds about right for modern burn around the time of gatecrash. Admittedly, with boros charm and skull crack being a thing, vexing devil was already on the chopping block but there were still lists that ran it.
great video for beginners, good advices here !
Glad it was helpful!
I'm also new-ish, playing for 2 years now, but only really on arena. I know many of the really good cards in older formats, but i know mostly stuff that has been in standard in the last two years, its really fun playing along these, so i might as well subscribe now.
Anyways, my guesses:
Temporeal Mastery: Thought it's good. I know brainstorm and senseis divining top, and i heard the name miracles for a deck that is or was meta somewhere, so i thought this had to be good.
Fury: Got it right. Maybe for the wrong reason, i thought that a 0 mana removal spell is probably pretty good, even if you have to go down in cards. Didn't really consider the body, but a 3/3 doublestrike seemed to be like an at least decent fallback option for when the main use (what i thought to be the main use) wasn't good.
Ledger Shredder: I already knew Ledger Shredder. In spoiler season i didn't really looked at it much because it doesn't seem to fit well into standard decks, and so far i've been right about that, but i also know its good outside of standard because it is an important card in my first real venture into a non standard format with older cards (Izzet Phoenix in Explorer).
Vexing Devil: I thought that it looks great, but that it has to be bait, and that it probably doesn't see play in the older formats because 1 mana creatures in red that support burn and aggro seems like a very competetive niche. I know soulscar, swiftspear and ragavan which all are pretty insane so the devils can't really be a staple.
Visions of Beyond: 20 cards in the graveyard seemed like a lot, also i knew that the scuffed time warp was bad at this point, so scuffed recall was likely to be bad too.
4/5 and i blame my evaluation of Temporal Mastery on Alrunds Epiphany giving me tons of wins when it still was legal :D
I think Temporal Mastery just got beat out by Terminus, Bonfire of the Damned, and Entreat the Angels. It's a good card in a dedicated Top + Brainstorm + Scroll Rack + Sylvan Library deck, but the other cards just mean you have no room.
@@nekrataali i see. I think i would've predicted it to be better than bonfire of the damned. I don't actually know much about how miracles is played, but it's a control deck in my head, so a boardwipe much worse than terminus but with the upside of some burn damage and being one sided didn't seem better to me than an extra turn.
The burn damage isn't that big of a deal because we control and don't need to push for game quickly, and the one-sidedness doesn't matter because we are control, play sweepers and counters and don't really run creatures unless we cast entreat the angels for x=6 or something and swing for lethal.
That was my idea of how it might look like without looking at any decklist. How does it actually play?
The power creep from when I played to now has been extreme.
I play Visions of Beyond in a Tiny Leader (50 cards singleton with a Commander and everything is CMC 3 or less) and even in that deck it's not that great and when it works a win more card. Still, nice to play flavourwise!
I got destroyed by the vexing devil reprint. It saw some play in early runs, especially when it was standard. In Avacyn it was strong enough in mono red to see a couple copies. By the time the choice was a strong downside, you hopefully won the game just off burn. It also ate some removal from the strong red threats that came in Ravnica, such as your Goblin Loyalists and Boris Reckoner. It’s not a staple, but I don’t think it’s ever been a stinker either
Temporal Mastery might be busted, but it's far from a stinker. It was fairly good in the decks that played it at the time and has great use in EDH these days. Tutor it to the top of your deck at the end of your opponents turn and look at that you get an extra turn.
Oh it's not a bad card. It simply never really saw play. A good example of an EDH staple would be something like sylvan library, Dark Ritual, Mind Stone or Anguished Unmaking :)
@@CardmarketMagic "Stinker" implies to most people that it's a trash card though. It might give the impression to new players "no that card is bad, that channel that knows more than me said it was bad."
@@Dhips. to be perfectly fair, all of the "Stinkers" in these series are in fact rather poor cards ;) we mostly claim that they are not that bad because some people can play it in their pet decks and that's OK, do your thing :) doom whisperer is a great example. I'd never recommend playing it over any other 5 mana option, but I'll never fault anyone for wanting to sleeve it up
Going to need some explanation on what a stinker is. Does 4 of play in it's standard. What about consistent play in modern decks that might be 2 or 3?
this exercise is always pleasant. You pick especially difficult cards this time, especially the false time walk which was a big deception but which is not totally a stinker and is played some times nowadays. A player who obviously know the game as anika is forced to be tricked as ALL of us on the preview. For the vexing demon, I clearly have had the same reasonning (... but well, 4 face for R, it is not that awfull), good choice on the list. PS : the rule "never give to your opponent the choice" is not absolute, gift ungivens and fact or fiction whisper to me.
I think its important to know what format the card is most used in since some cards considered staples in commander probably arent the same in modern and vice versa
Almost every card can be good in commander in the right deck 🙂 for the purpose of this series, we focus on 60 card formats
Would love to see you put together two AI decks that actually work, so generate enough to have cards that could really be played and play them
I had thought Ledger Shredder was an amazing card, but I didn't buy it out because I thought someone up top knew better.
I love this content! Keep it up!
Thanks, will do!
Fury is the most aptly named card ever cause i feel a deep fury everytime i see it cause of what MH2 did to modern my favorite format.
Never give your opponent the choice
*Laughs in Risk Factor
Edit: but generally true though lol. Love these videos
i can tell if a card is a staple or not by how quickly i check out of the effect text. the faster, the stronger
I traded a box for a Temporal Mastery I pulled at pre-release when it came out. I walked away with a box and I was much happier because of it
This is a trade that aged well!
Really enjoying your content, super fun! But allow me a little question: Why do you seemingly ignore commander in most of your vids? isnt it super big?
We will release our first Commander gameplay video this Friday :) For Staple or Stinker however it is a little harder as there is no real meta
Really loving your vids
Vexing devil in my memory was a staple? It was over 5 euros (for a rare) for a long time. I remember monored burn playing these a lot as just 4 to the face for 1.
People got really excited about it for burn until rhey realized it's usually no damage for 1 😅 it dropped down in price pretty quickly. Still, I remember thinking the card was absurd during spoiler season. But then when I fit it in my rakdos aggro deck they were generally blocked or removed with spells before it got to do anything
This format of video is sick!
Keep this up!
Glad you enjoy it!
Vexing Devils evaluation broke my heart
Stinker does not mean the card is bad 🙂 for the purposes of this game, it's simply that it saw almost no play in competitive events