The first bi-directionally winding watch!
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Today we have a 1950s Angelus automatic on the bench, with the legendary Felsa Bidynator movement inside it. The case is badly worn and we will have to go to town on restoring it, while we discuss how Felsa developed the world's first automatic movement that could wind in both directions.
See our watches and read our blog at www.vintagewatc...
See our current selection at Chrono24: bit.ly/32MJI4W
Tools and resources for watchmaking as a hobby:
bit.ly/43yQRmw Watchmaking books
bit.ly/3N3rlz3 Watchmaker’s loupe
bit.ly/43vOcu4 Watchmaker tweezers
bit.ly/3Nm0lfc Moebius lubricants
bit.ly/43ITWjM Screwdrivers
bit.ly/468B8wq Case opener
bit.ly/468Bfbk Rodico
bit.ly/3J8mX0u Polywatch
bit.ly/42wAZQf Presto tools
bit.ly/3J6UND7 Bergeon tools
bit.ly/3X21iwL Horotec tools
bit.ly/3X2xiAU Chinese made watchmaking tools
bit.ly/3qFqgWk Digital microscope
bit.ly/3CkZt4f Ultrasonic cleaner
bit.ly/3qAAPtX Ultrasonic cleaning solution
bit.ly/43V9HEr Denture cleaning tablet
bit.ly/3X1rpUl Chinese “Horia style” jeweling tool
bit.ly/3P5EQR7 Demagnetizer
Follow us on social media
/ vintage_watch_services
/ vintagewatchservices
/ vintagewatchsrv
www.pinterest.... #watchmaking #vintagewatches #watchrepair #watchrestoration
I love when you make everything look newer again. Some people don’t go to that level. I really dislike a dial with heavy patina.
I followed your suggestion to move my head in sync with the shaking in the video frames, but that introduced a significant beat error to my cognitive abilities.
I was able to correct the beat error with a nice warm bowl of pea & ham soup. Enjoyed the repair of your latest tick-tok acquisition. 😋
😂 Well done, sir!
I am just fascinated by these videos for some reason... the narration is a huge plus!!! It's interesting to see the different ways watches are made.
Yeah, it is indeed fascinating! I think the main reason is that we're able to imagine ourselves trying to make these things or put them together, and we understand the skills needed to do so :)
@@VintageWatchServices I just enjoy watching you struggle to get the very tiny parts together 😂.. when I was a kid I get used to watch my father servicing his watches by himself and explaining things to me, and seeing you doing that remember me of him and bring a lot of memories. Thank you sir.
I love that watch. A lot of vintage watches are far better than modern watches.
Fully agree, Orville!
Thank you for that video! I have a ANGELUS DATOGRAPHE Automatik, 18 Kt 750 Gold, built in 1965 and I love this vintage watch from my father!
Thanks for sharing!
Handsome dial, and the orange colored minute hand makes it more interesting. Nice video, thank you for making it.
Thank you - it's only now that I realize what it means to clean and overhaul a vintage watch. I admire "your steady hands" and your know-how in putting all of these individual parts back together so that the watch runs reliably again. And redesigning the case is a completely different challenge! I inherited an ANGELUS DATOPGRAPHE AUTOMATIC 18 carat gold from my father and wear it as a "holiday watch" on the weekend, and a smartwatch during the work week... Thanks again for the interesting and insightful video!
Wow, that's a fantastic watch you have!
Marvelous Restoration, Thanks 👍
Another tour-de-force Stian. Beautiful.
Thanks Luke :)
Ahhh, finally a full understanding of the time grapher! Thanks for that.
My pleasure!
Thanks Stian, this really helped me with a MuDu with Felsa 4007N!
👍
Hi Stian, I’m now on to a Felsa 1560, which I think is the same minus day/date. Did you use v105 on the fancy auto wheel that sits a bit under the balance bridge? It has a spring under it? Or what did you lubricate the spring and wheel with? Also any other fancy lubrication, other than the normal? Ta!
Great video as always. Nice to see that you have finally achieved the the level of "Jewel Master"!😄
😂 Thanks, Peter!
Can't say enough about how much I admire your editing. There were a couple of truly sublime moments there that bubble at about 9:21 and then again 17 minutes there's a couple scenes that are just awesome thanks
You Sir have my total respect as a watch expert.
I just traded an Angelus day date with a fluted bezel (you know the look) for a bunch of watches (some pre 1980's technos), the owner had one very similar. I'm glad it's going into good hands. They are still in business and a great bunch of folks btw.
Very nice!
Superb restoration of an iconic brand watch. I have seen many Angelus watches which have alarm function. Also happy to know that this watch brand is being revived. I really wish many of the older swiss brands, which are now history, are revived and it will be proudly worn by the owner. Thanks Stian for one more fantastic video.
Thanks for watching it, K! :)
Ridiculously high quality video. You know this is just CZcams right? I don't think you can be nominated for a Palme d'Or Cannes Film award. Though you do deserve it.
Thanks so much, Herb, very cool to hear you think the video quality is good 😊
Great idea using the nylon crystal press dies to hold the case while sanding! I have a Gruen autowind with a Felsa 1560 movement that is a newer version of the 690. These are really nice movements. I think Enicar also used them.
Thanks! And Felsa indeed made some very fine movements 👍
I just worked on an Enicar today with this movement
But having seen this video, I have to go back and do it again. Properly 😊
Very interesting to watch what you did with the case.
I notice that when you are putting the case pieces into the Elma 1 to 9 the jar has a brass lid but when you're putting it into the ultrasound machine it has a plastic one. Obviously magic!
The black kind! 😂
Great job on the case. A big difference from before and after!
Thanks so much, Paul!
Great job on a really funky watch: well done. Your sharing your insights into the history of watches is wonderful - thank you.
Thanks a lot!
What an interesting contrast between the condition of the exterior of the watch and its movement. While the case showed heavy wear, the movement looked pristine with no tool marks even on the screw heads. I suspect that this watch had one long time owner who wore it every day and probably never had it serviced because it just kept on running. Quite a tough little guy. Be well, Stian, and don't forget Mother's Day.
Thanks Bullnose! Yep, it's seen some wrist time for sure and I believe the only service mark I saw was from 1961... A nice Mother's day to you also!
Great Video!!!! The Bydanator is a work of great engineering art in my opinion!! Such a great mechanism in a chrome plated cheap case. Does not give the watch justice in my opinion. Stainless steel cases did exist for this vintage watch!! Its what I hate about plated watches with good movements. Each to their own but the effort to plate the case could have been used towards finding an identical stainless steel case or even a mid-case for it. I have done this with a few of my plated watches. It can surprise you as to how many of them are still around on ebay !, I have 3 empty gold plated cases for a Felsa 4007n sitting in my junk box. Thumbs up!!!
Stian another great restoration and great to see that there has been no trouble in paradise this week. Keep well from NZ.
😁 Paradise is paradise my friend :)
Love the care that went into bringing back the case. A charming piece once again brought back to life.
Thanks Dave 😊
Amazing restoration as always. Would love to have a watch like this. You're truly a "Jedi" of watch restorations. Keep up the great work!
Interesting that La Joux-Perret now owns and revived Angelus. Also, Citizen owns them.
Great video.
Cheers!
Hello Angel, yes, La Joux-Perret indeed bought the rights to the name a few years back and I think they're doing justice to the Angelus legacy, although the new watches obviously are very different from the old ones. And there are very few independent watch manufacturers out there, it's an expensive thing to develop new watches, so just a handful of companies own probably 80% or more of the market...
Many thanks for this. I feel like I have started the journey to understanding auto winders
That's very cool to hear, George :) I'll explain the automatic works in a bit of detail in all the watches I service going forward. There are many, many ways to implement it...
Buen día sr desde Colombia......admirable la restauración del reloj Ángelus, no conocía la marca es antiquísima......awesome restauration
Eine prachtvolle Uhr und edelste Mechanik. Mit sehr viel Liebe gefertigt. Ein Top Video !!!
Vielen Dank Sven! :)
Beautiful work you did on this one. The case refinishing was amazing.
Thanks so much, Steve!
A fantastic job restoring that pretty beat up case. Great movement and servicing to bring that back to life. Always a pleasur what your work and processes... Kudos to you..!!
Thanks Thomas :)
Great resto
Thanks John!
That's a beautiful watch!
Every time I watch one of your wonderful videos, it makes me wish I'd learned to do this craft years ago. I would have made a lot of people very happy. Great job as always!
Never too late to start learning!
👍
@eightboy is spot on; never too late!
Your video just reminded me why I’m enrolling in watchmaking school this fall. 😀 Thank you for another quality video.
That is very cool to hear, Shannon 😊 Best of luck in school!
Beautiful job
Thanks Larry 😊
It amazes me how hairs get inside the movement!
THANKS for another GREAT ViDEO
Thanks for watching it, Greg :)
Nice watch, professional work, but I would have to change that pink minute hand.
Thanks John! I think you might have to adjust your screen settings, because that hand is very orange and not remotely pink! 😂
What a lovely watch and yet again a great , informative piece of restoration 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😎
Glad you enjoyed it, Alan!
Great work Stian.
Just tell me when you need an apprentice for your workshop ;)
Nice restoration! You mentioned YvesFlex well I am not as flexible as I used to be????!?!!??? LOL Thanks for sharing. Ciao
😂
Superb, I love watching you bring back to life what looks like an old beater. Cheers
Thanks, Francis! 👍
I tried bobbing my head from side to side. It did help. Thanks for the tip.
🤣
Thanks Stian, great job!. Got lost in one of these years ago!! 🙄. Well done. Adrian
Thanks Adrian:)
i have one with the felsa 690 no date, yours 692 with date. regards and very good video.
Beautiful.
Thanks!
Just awesome!
Great video Stian i enjoyed it, nice movement too, reminded me of my Junghans because i had to do same thing for the beat error, i liked your plating setup very professional as it should, thank you mate hope you n family are doing well, cu next time. D
Thanks Dave, best to you and yours also 😊
Another wonderful video. I have to give you a lot of the credit for me continuing my journey as a hobby watchmaker. I guess I’m committed now because I just bought one of those “most expensive bottles in the world” this week 😎😂. And BTW, I traded the Swiss moose for a yak 😎. Take care my friend
Wow, that's very nice to hear, Eric 😊 And getting that bottle is indeed a big step! Best of luck with your yak, and from experience I would advise you not to have its bed in the living room.
Another beautiful watch, grate job 👍
Thanks Andy!
Very cool. Thanks!
👍
Well done, thank you.
Thanks for watching!
really appreciate the humor so I tried shaking my haed while you were filing the case...didn't work...😆 😅 😂 amazing work on the case...well done. I was wondering if you could elaborate a bit more about the beatrate in combination with adjusting the balance spring?
😂 You must've not gotten your head quite in sync with the video then! I'm not sure I understand your question though?
Another superb restoration, love your work!
Thanks so much, Ben 😊
Crushed yet another old diamond in the rough. Id be proud to sport that every day.
Thanks so much, Robert :)
Great job Stian to ttransform it in a beauty watch 👍
Thanks so much :)
*The sounds which came along with the watch case & parts going into the cleaning jar, were great. Unfortunately, moving my head to match the shaky camera when the case was being filed? That didn’t work! GREAT VÍDEO and WATCH, as usual.*
😂 I'll have to go to bi-weekly videos in the near future and then I'll try to avoid those shaky parts also...
Hello my friend ! Another great one vidéo! Very good job, nice !!! ;-)
Merci beaucoup Hubert :)
I looked for Eveflex awhile back, but it's only readily available in Europe. If you're in America and are used to ordering from Cousins that's OK, because they carry it. But you can get something similar without going overseas; the generic name for this sort of thing is a pin polisher.
It's available in a number of grits and hardnesses. From the color, this is the extra fine? Which is this?
32:50 - That's a much more convenient way to attach the balance spring to the bridge than having that little tiny set screw sticking out to the side.
Thanks for that, Chris! Some products are indeed quite specific to either Europe or the US...
Loved it
Thanks so much!
Another lovely job Stian! Getting it on a Saturday was a treat! Loved seeing all the tools and the plating system! Can you explain the 3rd wheel I think it was that is two wheels connected, how does this work, why 2 wheels? Also, what’s your technique for working out which way to adjust to get the beat error right? Keep em coming! Ta ta.
Hello Boyd, the extra wheel on top of the 3rd wheel is for transferring the rotation from the 4th wheel to the seconds pinion. It was a pretty common way to do it in the early days of center seconds hands but you don't see it any more nowadays.
Someone was Stringing Barbed Wire on the Ranch I guess ?
Or Masonry Work ?
Oh what stories these watches could tell .
This one survived the test of Time and you breathed a few more Decades of life into that one ☝️
I hope the Owner eases up this Time Round 😁
😁 Thanks!
Great job 👍 You should be able to get the chrome plating stripped off at a local electroplating company. I'm sure it would make it easier to clean up the case afterwards. Are the hands original to the watch?
Hello Andrew, no, the hands are not original but I thought they looked cool :) The main problem with this watch wasn't really stripping the chrome, it was the marred metal underneath.
Great job. You do amazing work.
Thank you so much 😀
hii sir nice job and work.. very nice swiss movement
Thanks Nizam 😊
I think this is a Fontainemelon caliber , rare and nicely made , and the 18Kbps is also confirming , lift angle If I remember well is very low 42°, and regarding the beat error correction you missed to say trial and error to get 1ms for 52° , at 42° calculation gives different results , but good to go for an old classic
No, it's a Felsa.
@@douro20 made by fontainemelon ebauche sa....
Hello John, they may look similar, but this is in fact a Felsa 692, and the lift angle is 52 degrees. It's quite rare to see 42 degrees in a wristwatch movement, given that the lift angle is largely a result of the length of the pallet fork. Smaller movements, shorter pallet forks.
Heey it's me again! Then again, superb job on this one! I have a few questions not exactly related to this video, but, i have a very curious mind so here you go:
1: do modern oils still polymerizes and becomes that slimey goo overtime or fo they took a bit more time to need a service?
2: i have seen in various watchmaking channels a plethora of types of springs needed to be replaced because they broke due to mechanical fatigues. But i never seen a case which a hairspring failed or broke because of this. But, it can it happen? Have you aver seen a case in that a hairspring broke because it was too old?
Hello Luis, thanks for watching! Synthetic oils do not gel up the same way animal oils do, but if small particles get embedded in the oil it will start losing its positive effect and could even turn abrasive.
For the hairspring, it will not break unless it is being manipulated or if it's really old and made of plain steel it could rust through. The reason for this is that during its action it never gets anywhere close to reaching its elastic limit, the point at which it deforms.
Heh you are near to my feeling how the ideal restoration looks like ;) Only few recommendations ... that second hand could be treated little bit more precise and with casing little bit more in detail.
Thanks! Let's see for the next one :)
Awesome
I bobbed my head and it worked 😃
😂
Nice job. I can’t really say that the orange minute hand does it for me though. Good work on cleaning up the case, but I missed what you used for re-plating. Not chrome I take it? Thanks
Hello Randy, I used palladium. It's very similar in appareance to chrome but a bit better for the environment.
That's a cool waych
As always nice work
Thanks Randy!
My weekend candy! 🍫🍬🍭
😂 Don't eat all your candy at once!
Would like to see the time adjustment after service
That's of course in the video, at around 24:04
@@VintageWatchServices Thanks, I skipped over that somehow
Great video, but I was having some difficulty figuring out the "before" and "after" pictures... you should probably label those. :) It does seem weird that they would put this major new innovation in with the "bidynator" and then not put in something as basic as a quick-set of some sort. Oh well. Staff meetings around the design table must have been interesting in those days as well.
😁 Yes, it certainly is strange they didn't put a better date complication in this movement...
Interesting, historical watch. Not sure about cool though.
I am sure that this is a cool video.
Nice shots.
Thanks Clive! I thought the hands made it pretty cool 😊
Great Stuff Stian - I use Sulphuric Acid to remove the old chrome from the cases - it strips it down copper/Nickel in a few seconds! I then re nickel and buff up, palladium plating is a new one on me, is this the closest to home chrome plating?
Hello Carl, interesting to hear about the sulphuric acid, do you dilute it? It's pretty strong stuff 😲 And yes, palladium is pretty close to chrome plating :)
@@VintageWatchServices Sorry it was Hydrochloric acid not sulphuric acid. still be careful though
I thought the GP gyromatic was the first bidirectional winding automatic watch
Maybe it s the first with the rolex stile reversers
Deutsche Reichspatent...unusual to see that on a movement made in the 1950s.
The Bobino tool he's using cost more than the polishing machine...
Thanks for watching!
Brilliant! Makes you wonder how in the world the watch face ever got scratched though underneath the crystal? I have to congratulate you that I never noticed even one nose hair, although you did mention I believe that there was one hair in the watch......wonder how that got there and if it was a nose hair? 🙂 Cheers!
*The dial was scratched when original hands were replaced, by a butcher who has no business in the watch business.*
Thanks Cliff! As Joe Skeptical noted, someone most likely made a scratch when trying to work on the watch. It could also be that the crystal came off at some point and exposed the dial, but that is less likely. And perhaps it was the same person leaving a hair of unknown bodily origin 😉
18:58 The plate is stamped with "PATENTED + USA DRP" Interesting. I've been watching your videos too much, when you blew on the cleaned balance, I could tell there were going to be problems. :)
Yes, my guess would be that Felsa patented the hell out of their innovation...
As per usual, your workmanship is top-notch! Incidentally, have you ever worked on restoring a Cartier Tank Louis?
Nope, not yet :)
Question, (though unrelated to this watch maintenance): Given that he had the plans and specs for a watch, how much of it could a skilled watch-maker create with the standard tools in their inventory? All of it? 80%? 30%? I really don't know.
I see some recreating/replacing staffs, or repairing jewel holes, refinishing cases, etc. But wonder if an entire wheel, or bridge, or case could be done by a well equipped and experienced "watch maker"??
Understand that it would make more sense to FIND many of those replacement parts, which probably makes my question moot. But I'd be interested in an estimate....
Hello Tom, yes, the entire watch could be re-created with the proper tools and skills, some parts more easily than others. The mainplate for instance is very difficult to make, as the holes need to be extremely accurately drilled, but a mainplate would then again basically never be so damaged that it would need to be remade.
It is actually quite common in clockmaking to make new wheels for old clocks, as these were all one-offs.
So it's possible technically but practically not really, as the costs would be very high.
Maybe one last thing to add: there are lots of watchmakers but very few watch makers, and it would only be watch makers who would have the equipment and skills to make such parts. A master watchmaker is a common term for someone capable of making parts for a watch.
Hi Stian, I just Services a Moeris Jumbo (38) with Felsa 698 and had, again, a lot of support of this video you made. Thanks! Could you Tell me how the Tool is called you used, to schrimp the tube of the seconds Hand? Perhaps Brand and number? Thanks before’hand’ … hihi greetings from NL, Peter
Hello Peter, well done! The tool is Bergeon 3010
Thanks Stian, a real gem of a Tool … Birthday- and Xmas-presents combined/added 😂
Great job, well done :-)
Many thanks!
Amazing Restauration! I still think the pink Minute Hand looks out of place
Thanks! The hour and minute hands are not original, but they're also not pink! The minute hand is pretty bright orange and I thought it looked cool :) I'll probably replace them with original dauphine hands before putting the watch up for sale, though.
@@VintageWatchServices Thank you fir explaining . It's a matter of Taste . I did not mean to offend
@@mrgadget4863 oh, no offense taken at all! 😊
I very much enjoy watching your videos and have learned quite a lot so I have a basic question about automatic watches. Since the barrel and mainspring are designed to slip when wound all the way tight, how do I know when to STOP winding an automatic watch that I don't get to wear everyday and must wind by hand to keep it running? The instructions for a few of my watches state it takes "50 winds" to wind the mainspring fully, but I do not know if it is 50 winds of the crown or 50 winds of the barrel.
Any words of wisdom?
Thanks Jon! 50 winds is not really a specified amount, as one person's wind might be longer than another person's. But for an automatic watch, if you haven't worn it for a while I'd suggest giving it 20 revolutions with the crown. That's more than sufficient to make it start running and give it half a day power reserve or so.
Do you video all watch disassembly to help with reassembly ?
Not all of them, no, but if I'm working on a movement that I don't know that well I turn the camera on indeed.
I should be able to work it out but does the mainspring wind left or right in the mainspring winder. I replaced mine with a right hand winder but the barrel had no power when it was in the watch.
You can place the empty barrel in the watch and see which way is up or down and then see where the barrel arbor fits. Then you can check the hook on the barrel arbor to see which way the mainspring winds.
Wow
Thanks! 😊
رائع
entertaining channel 👍
Thanks!
I’m surprised by how value oriented this piece seems to be- No decoration, somewhat plain finish, no winding system jewels, although the movement seems designed to take them, and a chrome plated case. Not what i would have expected from Angelus, and also I’d think it wouldnt be economical for such a restoration. But then when I was collecting these types of pieces, i was typically paying $5 or $10 for unrestored but decently running examples, which gives you an idea how long ago that was.
This certainly isn't the best example of a vintage Angelus, but I thought showing the Bidynator would be cool. I hope to come across an Angelus chronograph in the not too distant future to show what they were capable of :)
Another great video and I was wondering what your thoughts are on New Old Stock movements. The reason for asking is that I have a vintage case that would house a 7733 but these are mostly NOS and it makes me wonder if the movement would have to be refurbished before being usable?
A NOS movement would have to be serviced, but you shouldn't need to do much else if it has been stored properly. But any lubrication will have congealed and could cause damage to the movement unless cleaned up.
super
Thanks Bruno :)
Question about the new mainspring. When installing it to the barrel doesn’t the coloured face go up? You had it facing down. Can you clarify. I am currently working on Jen of these movements.
Hello Luca, in most Swiss movements the colored side of the retainer ring indeed faces up, but not in this movement. You'll always have to check if the mainspring is wound clockwise or counter-clockwise and put the new mainspring into the barrel in the same direction. Good luck!
Thank you sir
hi, do you have a tutorial for a movement as 1902/03, it came in a rado watch
Hello Ignacio, you can try to find the tech sheet at watchguy.co.uk under Technical information
I tried bobbing my head in unison to the camera tremors. I looked like a bobblehead doll.
🤣