The old saying - 'the engine doesn't know it's flying over water' rings true. Still gives me a significant pucker factor when I fly across the strait between the Australian mainland and Tasmania though. Well done!!
Thanks Oz. What’s the distance on that crossing. Also, I bet there are more things in that water that can kill you! I have the cold, you have the sharks!!!
@@MyTimeToFly Ha ha, that's right!. It's about 80 miles across, although there are small rocky knolls that one could ditch next to and take refuge from the great whites. Yep, the cold waters off the Victorian coast are 'big fish with teeth' territory.
In the 80s I flew from palm Beach to the Bahamas quite often. Always took a raft. It’s wise to be good on instruments as well when the sky and water appear as one. Saved my but more than once.
Another great video. I think your risk reward analysis was spot on, and having a life jacket in the back as well as planning to aim for the ship was great planning. some won't fly over a large body of water in a single engine, and I understand their concern, but I, like you, am comfortable with planning, altitude, and knowing the plane and it's sounds to take the risk. I have flown over Lake Michigan a couple times, years ago, flying into/out of Benton Harbor to Wisconsin. I have also skirted around the shore when I didn't feel as comfortable. Any way, good to see another video pop up - fly safe.
I crossed Lake Michigan in a Mooney M20K. Of course, it was in 1985! We were heavy, myself and three others plus baggage for a two week trip from Van Nuys, CA to Montreal. We landed in Alpena, MI. This was in the pre-GPS, pre-Foreflight days. We stopped at the Flight Service Station in person for a weather briefing for the next leg of our flight. There was a fairly low ceiling and we wanted to make sure that all was good. The briefer said "it's good VFR, it's just dark." That line cracked us up and has stuck with me all these years. As it happens, these days I'm flying a C441.
Living in Michigan I flew my C210 across the great lakes numerous times. The plane was very well maintained and I had no problem trusting the plane over water but I made altitude my friend. Usually crossed at 9000 or above! Happy safe flying.
Flying over lake Michigan is one of the reasons I am learning to fly. Thank you for the video and the logic behind the trip! Good to understand how other pilots make decisions and take safety into account.
I like when you said your Mooney. Only did 2 flights for the year so far. Someone that's looking to get a Mooney would like to parthner with me. Though I haven't been able to fly so much this year, I still like knowing that the plane is the same as I left it.
At current water temps of 35 deg F, your time to unconsciousness is 15-30 minutes and odds of survival drop significantly after that. I’ve looked at doing the exact same profile and if I plan to cross the lake, I intend to carry a small raft and life jackets. Cool video! Maybe look at a raft if you plan to do several crossings. Not a lot of weight and cost, but a lot more peace of mind for me, lol.
I like your risk/reward analysis. As an A&P who has worked on GA planes, I personally would not do it, but I don't think you are crazy. Have a life raft, flight following, ADSB in/out, pay attention closely to CHT's, lean with caution if at all, and most importantly, aviate, navigate, and fly the airplane! Good video!
@@MyTimeToFly - Piston engines throw rods still.....they are 50s technology, and tend to have more complete failures that do not result in death, thus no FAA report. IE there are a LOT more failures on these engines than you might realize. Thats all!
Something that could help you with long open water crossings is a calculation of an ETP. Equal time point, halfway point in time given current wind conditions. Makes the decision to continue or to turn back much easier! Happy flying!
Great suggestion for crossing any inhospitable environment. For anyone wondering it’s (DxH) / (HxO) in nm from your last safe landing site where; D = Distance between landing points (origin side and destination side of crossing) in nm H is groundspeed “Home” to origin safe landing site in kts. O is groundspeed “outbound” to far side of crossing safe landing site in kts. Calculating this and plotting it (GPS or chart) should prevent that indecision wether to try to glide to the other side or not. Fly safe, thanks for posting. Love the Mooney!
I would be so nervous to cross a big body of water like that. But that's only because I'm still a relatively low time pilot. It seems like you had everything in order in terms of your adm, so hats off for that. Fly well brother! Great video.
Nice video, I’m enjoying your channel! I did a lot of my training out of Sparta and currently fly a Warrior out of Grand Haven. Have thought many times about making the trip across the lake, but so far have never had the need. Might finally do it some day for a day trip to KOSH museum. Keep up the great content. 👍🏼
Nice to see another flying vid. I reckon the chances of an engine failure on any flight are pretty slim, though you do have to keep that thought at the back of your mind just in case. Enjoyed the flight, thanks.
We Great Lakes pilots always need to be mindful of the hazard of those large bodies...my home airport CYSN is tight to the south shore of Lake Ontario...little difficult to get much altitude prior to crossing (especially in my Cherokee 140!) so, I'd rarely consider it outbound...coming back from points north and east it's pretty easy though. Then you just have to bargain with Toronto Centre to maintain your altitude!
It seems that’s a common Chicago area problem as well. ATC wanting us low level over the lake. Not such a northern Michigan problem. Thanks for sharing man!
I have an Arrow and am thinking through doing the crossings. We live in central Ohio and my brother lives near KMSP. I am explaining my reasoning to my son who is working on his PPL right now. I will do it alone but not with kids or my wife in the plane. We fly with a dry footprint at all times.
Very cool. If you want to chat sometime shoot me an email and we can exchange phone numbers. Or hit me up on Facebook Highflying121@gmail.com Cory Pease
Good to see another video! I can tell you thought about the risk of crossing and accepted the results. Nothing wrong with that. I would consider anything not on your person as gone if you ever have to hit the drink.
Hey I haven’t seen you post videos in a while. Hope all is well and you get back to flying. I was wondering if the offer to print the dynon drx carry mount . I’m waiting on one I just bought and here in S Florida placing on glare shield gets way too hot. No worries I’ll pay the shipping or whatever.
Might want to change to a different cable. Your right channel is going in an out. Or maybe check to see the plug is seated fully in. I'm going to say your cable is bad though as it seems that whenever you turn your head, the sound cuts in and out.
he has horrible horrible ADM, but the Kerry McCauley "Ferry Pilot" book talks about crossing the Atlantic and all the worries. Covers pre-GPS times and when they started to be temporarily put in the cockpit.
@@MyTimeToFly No issues! My last four crossings were in the Mooney. 10,000 feet, IFR/IMC. I made a mistake... I crossed five times. They were round trip, of course. I was headed to Oshkosh. I have also crossed the Bay of Fundy in the Mooney. At 10k you are exposed for a couple of minutes without an out. I am on my third engine in the Mooney and with over 200,000 minutes of perfect operation I figure the 3-5 minutes of exposure is a safe bet.
Cory, nice video, just wondering your thoughts. Are you at an advantage having retractable gear in case of an emergency landing in water? My thoughts would be a fixed gear plane would flip you over.
Thanks Dad. I certainly believe I have a best case scenario for water landings. Low wing, and retractable gear. So to answer your question directly...I do think I have an advantage (but I don't want to test it out).
I'll have to give that a try. I understand that leans the engine a bit, but I'm curious why it has an impact. Where did you learn to do it? Thanks for watching!
@@MyTimeToFlyI just experimented while flying X-country. Two theories on what is happening 1) the heat vaporizes the fuel and allow the mixture to get better distribution thru the plenum and runners to the cylinders. 2) the carb heat induces turbulence to the mixture that better balances the about of fuel going to each cylinder. My RV can run LOP and consistently get 150KTAS on 6GPH of mogas at or above 7500ft. I have electronic ignition that may help, and the RV intake and filter box is pretty efficient, too. My O-320 has almost 2600 hours now and is probably a bit tired, but still runs great. Hope to get to North Fox island in your state for camping this summer - Mackinac Island was great a few years back!
Completely agree on the parameters considered and decision process. When crossing water I always use a manual inflatable life vest. I don't like to be scambling to get myself and passengers in the vest, and I like to be in control of when vest pushing up, to avoid being more difficult than needed to leave the plane in case. Only question is why you did not go to 14.000 ft, just for the dead zone atleast? Great video 👍
I like the idea of an inflatable life vest, I agree it would have been scrambling to get mine on if something happened. I didn't go higher as I don't have supplemental oxygen and wanted to stay out of stronger headwinds. Thanks a bunch for watching Kim!
@@MyTimeToFly Just to clarify, as I know the rules you can go to 14.000ft MSL for up to 30 min. I use that at water crossing to limit the window, and provide more time to fix the problem or for SAR to be deployed. In cold water even a few minutes extra may be very meaningful. Thanks for you reply 😎👍
VFR routes dictate that if you're flying West you need to be at 8500, 10500 or 12500. So we could have legally been to 12500. But the other thing is that (in Canada at least) you cant be between 10 and 13000' for more than 30 minutes without supplemental oxygen.
I picked 10,500 because I was happy with the risk vs. reward it gave me. The higher I went, the more headwind I had, and to Barzook’s point above, the less oxygen I had. At 12,500 supplemental oxygen is required for any time at that altitude in excess of 30 minutes.
It would have helped, and in hindsight I could have made it to 12,500 pretty easily. I was only concerned about the winds aloft getting stronger the higher I went.
No flight plan, but I was on flight following the whole time. It's my opinion that flight following is the better option as you are in direct contact with controllers at all times.
A few reasons: 1. I believe where I crossed is as short, or shorter. 2. Going further north over land gave me more time to climb and ensure the airplane was running perfectly before crossing. 3. The Oshkosh MOA was operational, so I didn't want to mess around with flying in that area. A more southerly crossing would have put me right in that area.
@@MyTimeToFly I keep one on a lanyard in the plane and check my Blood ox when flying at any altitude for more than 30 minutes. It only takes a few seconds.
Life jacket was in the back. For future crossings I’ll likely go inflatable jacket and have it on from the start. A raft would be a solid improvement as well, I don’t disagree.
The old saying - 'the engine doesn't know it's flying over water' rings true. Still gives me a significant pucker factor when I fly across the strait between the Australian mainland and Tasmania though. Well done!!
Thanks Oz. What’s the distance on that crossing. Also, I bet there are more things in that water that can kill you! I have the cold, you have the sharks!!!
@@MyTimeToFly Ha ha, that's right!. It's about 80 miles across, although there are small rocky knolls that one could ditch next to and take refuge from the great whites. Yep, the cold waters off the Victorian coast are 'big fish with teeth' territory.
Right on, thanks for the details. I’ll definitely keep my distance!
Good job cheers
Thanks Glen
In the 80s I flew from palm Beach to the Bahamas quite often. Always took a raft. It’s wise to be good on instruments as well when the sky and water appear as one. Saved my but more than once.
Very cool. Your spot on, the horizon gets pretty mysterious over open water.
Thanks for sharing! Great ADM and risk planning, looked like the weather cooperated! Love mixing work and play, beats the heck out of driving!!
It couldn’t have been a better day! I appreciate your kind words, and stopping by the channel!
Another great video. I think your risk reward analysis was spot on, and having a life jacket in the back as well as planning to aim for the ship was great planning. some won't fly over a large body of water in a single engine, and I understand their concern, but I, like you, am comfortable with planning, altitude, and knowing the plane and it's sounds to take the risk. I have flown over Lake Michigan a couple times, years ago, flying into/out of Benton Harbor to Wisconsin. I have also skirted around the shore when I didn't feel as comfortable.
Any way, good to see another video pop up - fly safe.
Thanks Russell, flying the shoreline can be quite enjoyable too!
I crossed Lake Michigan in a Mooney M20K. Of course, it was in 1985! We were heavy, myself and three others plus baggage for a two week trip from Van Nuys, CA to Montreal. We landed in Alpena, MI. This was in the pre-GPS, pre-Foreflight days. We stopped at the Flight Service Station in person for a weather briefing for the next leg of our flight. There was a fairly low ceiling and we wanted to make sure that all was good. The briefer said "it's good VFR, it's just dark." That line cracked us up and has stuck with me all these years. As it happens, these days I'm flying a C441.
Great story, sounds like a fun trip. That Conquest but be a blast to fly!
Living in Michigan I flew my C210 across the great lakes numerous times. The plane was very well maintained and I had no problem trusting the plane over water but I made altitude my friend. Usually crossed at 9000 or above! Happy safe flying.
Awesome man. Having a good plane under you makes a world of difference.
Flying over lake Michigan is one of the reasons I am learning to fly. Thank you for the video and the logic behind the trip! Good to understand how other pilots make decisions and take safety into account.
My pleasure, thanks so much for watching!
I like when you said your Mooney. Only did 2 flights for the year so far. Someone that's looking to get a Mooney would like to parthner with me. Though I haven't been able to fly so much this year, I still like knowing that the plane is the same as I left it.
Bummer you haven’t been able to fly much, it definitely comes and goes for me. Still, nothing beats the pride in ownership!
At current water temps of 35 deg F, your time to unconsciousness is 15-30 minutes and odds of survival drop significantly after that. I’ve looked at doing the exact same profile and if I plan to cross the lake, I intend to carry a small raft and life jackets. Cool video! Maybe look at a raft if you plan to do several crossings. Not a lot of weight and cost, but a lot more peace of mind for me, lol.
Makes good sense to look at a raft. If I continue this route, I most certainly will.
Many time I cross Lake Michigan ,over Manatowe in route to Oshkash Wisconsin,, I Mooney ,Comanche,,RV6,, Cessna 172, p,.iper 180 ,, and Navajo
Very awesome. Where are you based out of?
I like your risk/reward analysis. As an A&P who has worked on GA planes, I personally would not do it, but I don't think you are crazy. Have a life raft, flight following, ADSB in/out, pay attention closely to CHT's, lean with caution if at all, and most importantly, aviate, navigate, and fly the airplane! Good video!
Thanks Zachary. I’m afraid to ask why your A&P makes you more cautious. I’m thinking ignorance is bliss is this case!
@@MyTimeToFly - Piston engines throw rods still.....they are 50s technology, and tend to have more complete failures that do not result in death, thus no FAA report. IE there are a LOT more failures on these engines than you might realize. Thats all!
Roger that.
What do you mean lean with caution IF AT ALL? Are you suggesting, maybe don’t lean?
Your question isn’t directed at me, but I always recommend leaning as necessary. I follow the Mike Busch philosophy as much as possible.
This is an awesome adventure! Thanks for sharing!
My pleasure Roger, I appreciate you watching!
Something that could help you with long open water crossings is a calculation of an ETP. Equal time point, halfway point in time given current wind conditions. Makes the decision to continue or to turn back much easier! Happy flying!
I like it!
Great suggestion for crossing any inhospitable environment. For anyone wondering it’s (DxH) / (HxO) in nm from your last safe landing site where;
D = Distance between landing points (origin side and destination side of crossing) in nm
H is groundspeed “Home” to origin safe landing site in kts.
O is groundspeed “outbound” to far side of crossing safe landing site in kts.
Calculating this and plotting it (GPS or chart) should prevent that indecision wether to try to glide to the other side or not.
Fly safe, thanks for posting. Love the Mooney!
Thanks so much! I appreciate you being here!
I would be so nervous to cross a big body of water like that. But that's only because I'm still a relatively low time pilot. It seems like you had everything in order in terms of your adm, so hats off for that. Fly well brother! Great video.
Thanks Russ, I’m sure you will succeed if your try! Maybe take another pilot the first time. If you get over to Michigan, I’d love to fly with you!
Will do brother! I would definitely love to fly with you as well. Be safe!
Nice video, I’m enjoying your channel! I did a lot of my training out of Sparta and currently fly a Warrior out of Grand Haven.
Have thought many times about making the trip across the lake, but so far have never had the need. Might finally do it some day for a day trip to KOSH museum.
Keep up the great content. 👍🏼
Thanks a ton. I hope to see you around Michigan sometime.
This video alone could persuade me into getting a Mooney :)
They can be hard to argue with. Wait until I post the video about the cost of this trip, you'll be sold for sure.
Nice to see another flying vid. I reckon the chances of an engine failure on any flight are pretty slim, though you do have to keep that thought at the back of your mind just in case. Enjoyed the flight, thanks.
Thanks Spiro. I agree…it’s always in the back of my mind. Knowing it could happen helps me stay prepared.
I’ve crossed 4 of the 5 Great Lakes with a total of 7 crossings, all in my Mooney. My lowest crossing was 12.5 and the highest at 17.5.
Sweet! At 17.5 I'd have a ton of confidence.
We Great Lakes pilots always need to be mindful of the hazard of those large bodies...my home airport CYSN is tight to the south shore of Lake Ontario...little difficult to get much altitude prior to crossing (especially in my Cherokee 140!) so, I'd rarely consider it outbound...coming back from points north and east it's pretty easy though. Then you just have to bargain with Toronto Centre to maintain your altitude!
It seems that’s a common Chicago area problem as well. ATC wanting us low level over the lake. Not such a northern Michigan problem. Thanks for sharing man!
I have an Arrow and am thinking through doing the crossings. We live in central Ohio and my brother lives near KMSP. I am explaining my reasoning to my son who is working on his PPL right now. I will do it alone but not with kids or my wife in the plane. We fly with a dry footprint at all times.
I feel like I’m in the exact same “boat”. I wouldn’t likely make the trip with my wife and little ladies on board.
I have a 1962 M20C that I am still getting used to. Almost ready to take it on a long cross country. I would like to pick your brain sometime.
Anytime Alec! Where are you based out of?
@@MyTimeToFly KCFV
Very cool. If you want to chat sometime shoot me an email and we can exchange phone numbers. Or hit me up on Facebook
Highflying121@gmail.com
Cory Pease
Good to see another video! I can tell you thought about the risk of crossing and accepted the results. Nothing wrong with that. I would consider anything not on your person as gone if you ever have to hit the drink.
Most definitely. My main goal would be to get out before she starts to sink!
Hey I haven’t seen you post videos in a while. Hope all is well and you get back to flying. I was wondering if the offer to print the dynon drx carry mount . I’m waiting on one I just bought and here in S Florida placing on glare shield gets way too hot. No worries I’ll pay the shipping or whatever.
For sure man, I’m more than happy to help. Shoot me a note at highflying121@gmail.com and we’ll work out the details.
Might want to change to a different cable. Your right channel is going in an out. Or maybe check to see the plug is seated fully in. I'm going to say your cable is bad though as it seems that whenever you turn your head, the sound cuts in and out.
Thanks man, I’ll look into it!
Great video when You go to the Bahamas which I have done the same applies watch for boats have life vest or raft and plan ahead
Roger that Nick, thanks for watching.
he has horrible horrible ADM, but the Kerry McCauley "Ferry Pilot" book talks about crossing the Atlantic and all the worries. Covers pre-GPS times and when they started to be temporarily put in the cockpit.
It’s a great book. Your saying Kerry exhibits bad decision making?
@@MyTimeToFly I mean, they're decisions he is happy with, and he's still alive, so :shrug:.
Yea, I can’t imagine being in some of the spots he was. I mostly wanted to make sure you didn’t see something off with my ADM.
Why I stop receiving notification from CZcams about this channel?
Sometimes that’s just what happens, I do appreciate you finding your way back!
Going for my first aircraft purchase this August. We’ll starting the hunt/purchase.
Awesome man! What’s your mission, do you have a short list of models you’re looking at?
@@MyTimeToFly Mooney, or Debonair/Bonaza or 210.
Solid options! I wish you luck as you start the search. Be patient!
I have crossed Lake Michigan in my Mooney twice and in a C182 once.
Nice. I’m assuming no issues!
@@MyTimeToFly No issues! My last four crossings were in the Mooney. 10,000 feet, IFR/IMC. I made a mistake... I crossed five times. They were round trip, of course. I was headed to Oshkosh. I have also crossed the Bay of Fundy in the Mooney. At 10k you are exposed for a couple of minutes without an out. I am on my third engine in the Mooney and with over 200,000 minutes of perfect operation I figure the 3-5 minutes of exposure is a safe bet.
Sounds good to me. If I had doubts about my engine, I’d stay out of the sky altogether (those are my thoughts anyway).
Can you Rich the fuel valva ,,because sometime the Belly get in your way. Like my
Hahahaha! My belly is still small enough, although it seems to be growing a bit!
Cory, nice video, just wondering your thoughts. Are you at an advantage having retractable gear in case of an emergency landing in water? My thoughts would be a fixed gear plane would flip you over.
Thanks Dad. I certainly believe I have a best case scenario for water landings. Low wing, and retractable gear. So to answer your question directly...I do think I have an advantage (but I don't want to test it out).
Try using a little carb heat in cruise to see if that will allow you to run LOP. It works great in my carbed RV9. Nice explanations while flying!
I'll have to give that a try. I understand that leans the engine a bit, but I'm curious why it has an impact. Where did you learn to do it? Thanks for watching!
@@MyTimeToFlyI just experimented while flying X-country. Two theories on what is happening 1) the heat vaporizes the fuel and allow the mixture to get better distribution thru the plenum and runners to the cylinders. 2) the carb heat induces turbulence to the mixture that better balances the about of fuel going to each cylinder.
My RV can run LOP and consistently get 150KTAS on 6GPH of mogas at or above 7500ft. I have electronic ignition that may help, and the RV intake and filter box is pretty efficient, too. My O-320 has almost 2600 hours now and is probably a bit tired, but still runs great.
Hope to get to North Fox island in your state for camping this summer - Mackinac Island was great a few years back!
Thanks a bunch for the details! I’ll certainly give it a try!
Completely agree on the parameters considered and decision process. When crossing water I always use a manual inflatable life vest. I don't like to be scambling to get myself and passengers in the vest, and I like to be in control of when vest pushing up, to avoid being more difficult than needed to leave the plane in case. Only question is why you did not go to 14.000 ft, just for the dead zone atleast? Great video 👍
I like the idea of an inflatable life vest, I agree it would have been scrambling to get mine on if something happened. I didn't go higher as I don't have supplemental oxygen and wanted to stay out of stronger headwinds. Thanks a bunch for watching Kim!
@@MyTimeToFly Just to clarify, as I know the rules you can go to 14.000ft MSL for up to 30 min. I use that at water crossing to limit the window, and provide more time to fix the problem or for SAR to be deployed. In cold water even a few minutes extra may be very meaningful. Thanks for you reply 😎👍
Makes good sense.
do you use the glide distance rings on foreflight?
I use FlyQ, so no glide rings quite yet unfortunately.
? Why wouldn't you go to say 13,000 in the middle of the lake just to have a little more leeway? Why 10.5?
VFR routes dictate that if you're flying West you need to be at 8500, 10500 or 12500. So we could have legally been to 12500. But the other thing is that (in Canada at least) you cant be between 10 and 13000' for more than 30 minutes without supplemental oxygen.
I picked 10,500 because I was happy with the risk vs. reward it gave me. The higher I went, the more headwind I had, and to Barzook’s point above, the less oxygen I had. At 12,500 supplemental oxygen is required for any time at that altitude in excess of 30 minutes.
Spot on, plus the headwinds I was trying to avoid!
@@MyTimeToFly gotcha 👌
Calm, cool and collective!
Would bumping it up to 12.5 over the water have eliminated the 10 minute "dead zone" factor?
It would have helped, and in hindsight I could have made it to 12,500 pretty easily. I was only concerned about the winds aloft getting stronger the higher I went.
@@MyTimeToFly Good point.
Did you file a FP?
No flight plan, but I was on flight following the whole time. It's my opinion that flight following is the better option as you are in direct contact with controllers at all times.
Why not cross the Lake at Little Sable Point to Sheboygan?
A few reasons:
1. I believe where I crossed is as short, or shorter.
2. Going further north over land gave me more time to climb and ensure the airplane was running perfectly before crossing.
3. The Oshkosh MOA was operational, so I didn't want to mess around with flying in that area. A more southerly crossing would have put me right in that area.
@@MyTimeToFly ok.
Why not add a tad more altitude to avoid those minutes you were watching the ship?
I certainly could have, but was willing to take on the risk.
It will be nice if you concedere, adding shoulder Harnnes,,
It's on our list, we just haven't made it happen yet. It needs to!
I didn't see you use a Pulse/Ox device to measure your Blood Oxygen. If you don't have one I would recommend you invest in one...
Thanks Scott, I do have one in the bag. Perhaps I should have used it proactively.
@@MyTimeToFly I keep one on a lanyard in the plane and check my Blood ox when flying at any altitude for more than 30 minutes. It only takes a few seconds.
Very true, I’ll attach mine to my CO sensor, that will make me use it!
Not a life jacket or raft in sight
Life jacket was in the back. For future crossings I’ll likely go inflatable jacket and have it on from the start. A raft would be a solid improvement as well, I don’t disagree.