‘Why don’t men rebel?’: what the world can learn from childcare in Finland
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Finland is a world leader when it comes to early years education. Childcare is affordable and nursery places are universally available in a system that puts children's rights at the centre of decision-making.
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Now the country is applying the same child-first thinking to paternity-leave policies in an attempt to tackle gender inequality in parenting. The Guardian's Alexandra Topping travels to Helsinki to find out why the UK pre-school system lags so far behind and whether it really is easier to be a parent in Finland.
00:00 - Intro
00:44 - How much do you pay for nursery?
01:20 - Why can't UK parents send their kids to an idyllic childcare setting like this?
04:45 - Why don't men in the UK rebel? Equal parenting with Hanna Sarkkinen
06:07 - Finland puts the child's rights first
07:28 - Meeting a dad on shared parental leave
10:34 - What can the UK learn from Finland about pre-school education?
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#Nursery #Education #Finland #School #Childcare #UK
Seeing a country that respects the rights of children is really heartening and also so sad because every country could be doing that.
Our birthrate is in the pits. Clearly the system doesn't work.
If the goal is to have as many kids as possible. ountries where people have a lot of kids the reason is usually because they nees people to take care of them when they are old and/ or religion. Or a lack of choice. We just need to adjust the system.@@edheldude
If they respected children they would not pass the children off to others who are paid to raise them.
@@RextheRebelIt definitely begs the question: why is this so superior to parents staying home, or at least one parent staying home, indefinitely? It’s taken for granted by this reporter that going to daycare is a big leg up for kids, but is it? In the U.S., the emphasis is entirely on making childcare cheaper, never on enabling parents to raise their kids themselves. Very telling…
Why do people who work with children need so much education? If childcare in Finland is so child-centered, that should mean the children make decisions for themselves. Why do you need years of school and training to supervise that? In the U.S., more education and training for teachers means more and loss of agency and independence for children, ie: hijacking of childhood by adults. It’s a disaster that is resulting in millions of kids on medication for anxiety (aka helplessness). My view is that people who work with kids should be educated about the critical importance of play and the need for children to direct it themselves. They need to be taught about natural child development and kids’ natural genius for learning through play and exploration, and on the best ways to handle conflict while respecting children’s dignity. That’s all. Kids don’t need formally educated caregivers; they need caring adults with a love of children and lots of common sense.
As a dad it really warms my heart to see a dad taking care of his child. We have a similar system in Denmark where the dad has to take care of his child. I had 9 months leave with my second kid. It’s some of the best times of my life.
I am a school administrator. My child was born on Thursday. My boss expected me back on Monday.
@@lilmoo7682 what does your boss think you are doing there? Curing cancer? How not to see things into perspective. It is an administrator job in a school, your memory with the children will be with you forever, the meaningless chores of Monday will be forgotten on Tuesday. Nobody on your deathbed will care for the Monday chores.
I did not know how much men appreciate the time with their kids. My father did not like parenting too much; I guess it was because he was pretty much left alone with it when my brother was very small. It was overwhelming for them both. Now I have a dear friend who told me how he loved the parental off time and I understamd better, how much all are profiting from the fathers finally being there in their families instead of always being out doing monetary capitalist stuff.
Dads having parental leave after child-birth is actually also super-important for equality between men and women in the workplace. Without that equality, there is an advantage for the companies to hire men instead, if they have no parental leave. By making it equal, it evens the playing field between men and women in the workplace, which is important if we want actual equality!
I changed careers because the profession that I was in didn't allow time with my kids. Go to work in the dark, come home in the dark wasn't for me anymore. To see the kids for an hour -maybe. It isn't right.
We subsidise: oil companies, mining companies, heavy industry, military industries, multi-national conglomerates etc etc. But if we subsidise child care it is called Socialism or Communism.
we subsidize women on every turn and it only lead to collapse of society at every level.
Childcare is subsidised …
plus meat and dairy 50%
Privatise the profits; socialise the costs.
Ironicly here in Brazil childcare is public, but the middle classes thinks that is a bad idea, the better is the private schools that simulate the UK, or USA model. The problem is that is way expensive, so many parents think that have child is expensive, that is make no sense, because... well we have public childcare and matrilocal model of families, so if there aren't some public, child tend to stay with granmothers.
I moved from Ireland to Finland nearly 5 years ago and honestly if we’d have been younger we’d definitely have had more kids (although her indoors might have a word or two to say about that).
The life we can give our kids here on normal salaries in terms of schooling, housing, healthcare, public safety and a clean environment is incomparable. And those taxes they all talk about; they’re not actually that high if you’re not on big money. I’d say we get at least as much from the system as we put in.
So proud of my adopted country.
Any more you can say? I'm looking to leave Ireland soon and Finland has always intrigued me
@@eoinpayne4333 Ask any questions you want?
how is it learning Finnish? How is it for your children learning Finnish?
@@rashowie1 For me; it has been tough. We're quite busy and I've found it difficult to find time and motivation to learn to a good level. I was able to access full-time classes here through the welfare system when I arrived so that really helped me get into the workforce but I've a long way to go where I can do all of my business in Finnish. I've always been rubbish at languages and being a native English speaker in a country where most people can also speak English makes learning the language a lot tougher. You really need talent, motivation and time.
Our kids picked it up really quickly. My partner spoke Finnish to them a little when they were younger which helped a bit but language and learning support here is great. They don't consider learning support as something permanent so there's no shame in it like there often is in Ireland. Now you wouldn't know they were born abroad.
They say the healthcare is bad there. How is it to compare with nhs?
This is so important to understand, that child care / kindergarten is for the children, not for the parents.
It is to give the kids the possibility to learn, socialize and educate themselves, rather than they are looked after for a time, when parents work.
This is a completly different mindset then in other countries. I really like this idea. In Germany, especially rural areas, they still think a child can only be happy staying close to the mother for years…
I'm brazilian and from the commentary section I can understand that, in most countries, parents are actually "indirectly punished" by the society for having kids, while in Finland raising kids is seen as society's responsability. In Brazil, if you desire to raise your kid with responsability, you'll have to spend a lot of money, too.
In the USA the children themselves are punished by society.
@@5kids1goldfish because in the usa hyperindividualism has been propagated for a long time now. Family seems irrelevant to americans as long as you have your comfy lifestyle and fake stuff
I think governments will be forced to follow this example because their populations will start decreasing, those which will not will die out.
Responsibility raising the children is always for the parents.
As a Finn, I can confirm that fathers DO have a big role in child care here. I don't have kids myself, but my brother has two preschool age sweethearts, and I've seen the reality of fathers picking their kids up from day care, fathers playing with their kids in the parks and on the neighbourhood playground, fathers staying home to take care of small babies. In fact, when I've tagged along with my bro for preschool pick up, he and the kids always stop to play somewhere, and I swear, it's often mostly dads watching over their kids as they play. It really is heartwarming seeing these burly guys pushing kids on the swings or standing around talking about hockey or whatnot, with babies cooing in their carriers on their chests.
The question should not be "Is Finland the best place in the world to have a child?" but "Is Finland the best place in the world to be a parent?"
Noted! We've updated the title to your version
The question should be: Is Finland the best place in the world to BE a child ?
Answer is no to both questions.
@@Mustanaamio7people look at Scandinavian and Northern European countries as some type of Utopia. If Finland was so great their young adults would not be over represented on suicide statistics in the world. It leads back to attachment problems in early years. The best carer is the mother in the early years.
Edited typo.
Nope. Dutch kids are happier.
“Maybe tax the rich more” said by a government official in seriousness.
Finland is a cut above our pathetic government.
Yes but that doesn't cut out the market based exploitation and capitalism. Where are these rich people getting it from!? And is the far right winning in resistance to global fairness, internationalist equality.!?
She is from the Left alliance party. Of course she said that ;)
That was our former government. We had elections in spring and now our new government is cutting taxes and busting unions and generally doing all they can to make Finland a sharply divided Class society.
Thanks the proximity to the USSR, ever since its collapse capital owners no longer feel the need to acquiesce to workers demands, now they are reverting back to capitalisms natural form brutal exploitation and wealth consolidation through class warfare. This is why ending with socialism will always revert to capitalism, since it doesn’t change the power dynamic of capital owners and workers. Transitionary socialism -> communism (a very broad term that can take countless forms), by eliminating the unnecessary hierarchies and wealth accumulation that leads to an unequal and unsustainable society.
Yes. Imagine the repercussions if she said that in America.
If they came here to the United States, they would have a complete mental breakdown.
They're too civilized and thoughtful.
That's completly true. I'm a fin and when i visit the US I'm always shocked
@@MaxTheMan1216 I agree. And that's only on the surface level.....
America has a lot of toleration for bullying. As long as you do it with a smile on your face. And you're good at blaming the victim.
Not just in politics. But among the general population as well.
That's why you see a lot of weird stuff here. But people aren't allowed to stand up for themselves. Or be normal. Because it gives off the "wrong vibes."
That's why a lot of weird people here criticize people like Joe Biden. Even though he would be considered a regular politician in Finland.
We're in a situation where things can't really get done. And what you guys see on TV kind of helps illustrate that.
I really can relate to you guys in Europe. It's not fun being here in America. It's just a mean and emotionally cold place.
It’s hundreds of years of conditioning by barbaric capital owners vs Finland’s proximity to the USSR.
I've been to Finland 3x visited schools, talked with education professionals and students. It is a completely different world. And no matter how we say things need to change the people in the US don't want things to change. Borderline ready to go there and teach.
@@kjaroundtheworld That's true. America has a lot of love. But it doesn't make up for the fact that there's more hate.
I've had to deal with Anxiety, because of past trauma. But American society still puts grief and expectations on you. Almost to where it's unrealistic. And borderline slavery.
There's just no break from it.
In Finland, everyone does their part. It's not like here in America at all.
The childcare in Finland cost max 300€/month for full time but if you're low income, it will be adjusted and can be down to 0€. Like she said, there are designated day cares for shift workers, so that your child has childcare also during evenings, nights and weekends. Parents are paid 100€ per month for each kid until they are 18yo to offset some expenses.
With the declining birth rates and an aging population, societies should make it a priority to make becoming and being a parent as easy and beneficial as possible. Stronger parental job security, possibility to study while having a baby or having a break, cheap or free childcare and education, healthcare. Send a signal to young people that please have babies, we are helping you along the way.
We have the same system in Sweden, even more generous as well. I’m a father of two and has taken almost two years parental leave. We pay around 100 Euros a month for daycare.
Swedish system is a bit more generous and, Finlands is more flexible. There is no limit on either parent, the weeks can be divided in what ever way best suitable for each family. The point of this video wasn’t where the best system is, but the changes made. I was home for 2 years with my child, and as I’m a single parent daycare is free.
That’s why refugees are taking over
@@Emma-hj9bcwow! Amazing
@@Emma-hj9bc Yes, all the Nordic countries have similar systems with minor differences.
The quality childcare is a right, not privilege.
The planning is looking at raising future active tax payers, not letting everything to the invisible hands of market.
Children are the most precious future resource, but UK does not see children as something to invest in or support...
And that's the difference in philosophy. That makes all of this possible.
It's easier for them to get this into actual policy. Because intelligent people hold the consensus.
It's not like in my country. Where ignorant people have a more Egoist mindset. And they would call these guys in Finland "boring" or "communist."
No. It is an obligation.....of the parents
@@erandeser5830 and when those parents fail, as most do, we can either wait until the children are grown and broken and subsidize them and their maladapted progeny to boot either through social welfare or policing
OR we can take responsibility for our own quality of life by taking responsibility for other people's children.
Short version: poorly raised children will become your problem one way or another, and it's cheaper and more effective to intervene before they're grown
@@JSS90 I live in France. I think this person could be a teacher too. This is the same situation in France. I 'm a retired teacher for secondary school. Now I 'm a volunteer, to read stories to children. I chosen kindergarten. This is where all starts for children!
Last year I was in a kindergarten ones calls " popular ". I saw the deep lack of knowledge, of communication between parents and siblings. I was there to bring something they rarely knew : to listen to stories. They love that but... I have enough authority to be listened to, with small groups. One mistress had 32 pupils from 2-3 years old til 4. It was such a mess, only one helping person. The other one had 28 pupils. Lack of resources and staff working in these schools. This is sad but true. One day I met a little boy proud to have ONE book at home.
Education has a big cost in France too.
@@JSS90 stir the crap elsewhere
I’m a U.S. Government Employee and in the last few years they started giving us paid parental leave. It’s 3 months. It’s a start!
Um, well, it's three _years_ here in Germany. Per child.
But you're right, it's a start.
@@peter_meyer and still the US has higher fertility rate than Germany.
@@peter_meyer
Nothing to 3 months is a big deal for us Americans. Many people are paying more for daycare than they do for rent. The cost of parenthood has forced many people from doing ok financially to falling into poverty.
@@tomorrowneverdies567 Might be due to the high child pregnancy rate...?
@@peter_meyer you mean underage girls having children (often unwanted)?
What a humane model for society. This benefits *everyone* at every level - they are building their future on these kids and giving them every chance to be properly socialized and share a universal experience that will knit them together as they grow, whilst taking time and financial stress off the parents and allowing them to actually be a family unit.
This is off-topic, but as a Nightwish fan, it was fun to see that the daycare director's name was Tarja Turunen 😂
You have to knock back the class system before the extreme division can be addressed.
School for Fins is the same for all until state school age is finished. Everyone mixes.
No religious schooling or single sex schooling or private schools at state school ages.
The best a society can become within the divisive process called civilization then follows.
All teachers have two degrees. Everyone wants the best possible for their children so they get it.
Culture, the inclusive process, is emphasised so the Fins are highly cultivated people.
They really have got it together.
There is religious schooling but it’s by choice; so our kid is doing a kinda civics and philosophy class (worldview studies) but he could take a Christian religion class if he was baptised.
Schools are allocated based on the area you live in so there is a level of inequality built into the system from that, though the social mix in our area is pretty good.
One other thing is most people don’t bother with grinds or tutoring. If the education isn’t up to scratch, which is rare, you have a right to express it and not just shove more money into private classes.
It’s a great system, probably the best out there but the are still a couple of issues.
This is the stuff that makes a country a happy one. It doesn't mean everybody's always happy or that there aren't tragedies.. it means that people feel like the society works and it works for them. People aren't just left to fend for themselves. We have a lot to fix here in Finland as well but that's the right direction.
Agreed.
Every time I go to Norway it’s like a paradise compared to London
Fun fact: it was like that 200 years ago too. But civilization ismade in London(s) and not Norway(s) on the other hand.
@@tomorrowneverdies567 I’m talking about the country itself
The houses for example londons houses are way worse than Finland
The weather
The landscape
People too tho
@@Sumi_S I know what you mean, but Finland or Norway? Because I believe that generally, esthetically, building architecture in the UK is more beautiful than in Finland (and Norway). Look at 19th century buildings in cities like Edinburgh, Glasgow, York, Bath, Aberdeen, Inverness, and of course London.
Finland in particular, is now filled with postmodern concrete block houses architecture from the 2nd half of the 20th century.
Norway does not have as many not very beautiful building as Finland.
But now some areas of some cities in the UK I find that they can be cramped, without enough green and open spaces, and poorly made and though-out. Usually where formerly the "working classes" lived in mid-northern England, during the 2nd half of the 19th century.
@@tomorrowneverdies567 I’m talking about homes not any building. the uk is just filled with the same Victorian row houses side by side every street
Also about Finland and Norway you’re looking at the capitals
I’ve been to norway Trondheim and it’s massive wooden cabins everywhere with big gardens and views of amazing mountains
Uk does not have that
Norway is amazing compared to the UK. As a Norwegian who went there to live, I learned the hard way 😂 lasted only 5 years before I went back. Life is simpler in Norway!
In both the UK and US, there's a deeply ingrained idea that some people [insert who here] don't DESERVE to have quality life elements [food, housing, healthcare, childcare, etc.]. Because of that, every single policy is about restricting, rather than expanding, the availability of such services. All the talking in the world, won't change how people think. It seems like the internet generations think more broadly. Hopefully, they'll push for changes!
It's very intentionally done by the goverment here - if you hate your fellow people you forget to notice the absolute madness the rich and powerful do.
The US really is grossly regressive, and the people hurt the most by it are the proudest of the shit policies. Puritanism is a scourge that’s ruined our country.
I cannot fathom how the UK suggests they advocate for women's rights and equal pay when this travesty is taking place, this is literally telling women either you can have a career or be a mother (and not even including single mums here yet)... And this is actually unisex, as if either mother or father take the time off, unless the other is in the top 5% income, they will struggle, which will again affect the child's access to good education and development... As always, planning on assumption that the family owns a 4 bed detached villa in West London and 2 flats on rentals, blockhead leaders...
🙌🏻
Please come and visit me in Italy. I’m a British citizen with 3 kids living in the province of Parma! We only pay for the meals which is a max. 6€ per day, however depending on your income you get a discount on that. My kids can stay all day and have excellent care providers, food, resources, outdoor activities…
I miss the Uk and hope that early year care will be just as good there someday.
Take a note, America. This is what caring about children really looks like. Oh, you still think that the right to bear arms is more important that children's lives...nevermind.
Caring about children does not mean giving them to the government even earlier. Is it to much to ask that parents raise their own children for the first 5 years of their lives? The government isn't doing so well with the public school system. Why should they get our kids even earlier?
@@Melissa-gn3dvChildren under five do much better when placed in daycare and are provided with early childhood education. The attitude that Americans have that government is instinctively bad is the reason why Finland has better outcomes for children in every sphere than the United States. Government in Finland is working for the people, not against them.
Civilization is a disaster for mankind
@@Melissa-gn3dvThe nuclear family is not optimal anymore. The economy has changed so dramatically, often requiring both parents to be working - which means less time to raise a kid. So what do the majority of Americans do to teach their kids? Fast food, packaged frozen food, tablets, phones, games.
Unfortunately, the dream of the nuclear family is still baked deep within the american psyche despite the need to switch back to communal "it takes a village" mentality.
@@Melissa-gn3dvI think that would be changed quickly If fathers duty is to be home with children
A Finn here offering insight: the areas shown in the beginning (Oodi/Helsinki center, Kartanonkoski/Vantaa) are very wealthy. So you will not get a realistic view from a video like this. Some areas have a better situation concerning workers, but many daycares lack them to the point of dangerous situations.
In Japan, we don't have enough day care centres and so the ones that are in operation are not always of a high quality. Some places still demand that parents (after paying high prices for daycare) take their children's dirty nappies home (to "inspect the poo for any issues") and recently, a day care centre was in terrible as the teachers/staff physically abused the kids, threatened other staff to keep quiet and even the local government sat on the issue for several months before finally taking action. I think the teachers weren't even punished that much either?
I've worked at several day care/international schools for young kids and the staff aren't always trained/experienced, there are no health and safety procedures/standards (emergency exits blocked by tables and chairs, cockroaches everywhere, broken AED machines, etc), not enough staff (ratio can be 10+ kids per teacher), not enough resources (no playground, no art materials, no music/PE/etc lessons, etc).
The staff are often paid very little, not always on time and in many places, are treated quite badly. I've also seen staff practise kickboxing amongst their kids running and playing around them at the park, have little or no practical application of Covid 19 procedures during the hight of the pandemic whilst at school, etc And this was at schools that had famous/rich customers, like the son of the owner of Softbank, famous singers and TV personalities, etc.
Japan, IMO, is NOT a safe place for children.
Additionally hardly anybody in Japan is having any babies.
Nationally in Japan, licensed preschools and day care centers are required by law to have at least 1 top-level qualified preschool teacher - which involves graduating from a 4-year college course that includes courses on the rights of children and at least 1 foreign language, in addition to child development, child nutrition, and other more expected classes. The number of children per teacher is also set by law. The problem of waiting lists exists, but has been solved in recent years in many areas. There are secondary levels of qualifications, a friend recently got hers as part of a mid-life career change.
There is a licensed preschool on the first floor of the building where I work, and it is inspected regularly by the local officials (and we get notices of the violations and requests that we, too, comply). My children went to a local preschool for 2 years before starting elementary school, and as a parent who was required to be on site a number of days per term, the place was very well-run.
Non-licensed day care, preschools and "international" schools are outside of the system, and part of the problems - but parents who have no interest in knowing what goes on while their children are away are also part of the problem, discovering what has been going on only after it hits the newspapers/etc.. Making assumptions that an entire country, in all types of situations, is "not a safe place for children" is difficult at best. Being alert to your specific situation is necessary.
By the way, the teachers who abused those children in their care were fired. It was on the news for several days. There was no video of them getting fired. Perhaps it was missed, the videos of problems get so much more attention than the text describing the outcomes/solutions.
Broadly speaking, Japan has two kinds of daycares: ninka (government licensed, whether privately owned or public) and muninka (non-licensed). Licensed daycares must obey government regulations (educated and certified staff, number of staff per children of a certain age, size of playground, functional emergency exits, etc.) and parents pay on a sliding scale according to income. A meal and a snack are provided daily. Asking parents to bring dirty diapers home is common, as is requiring parents to bring home the child's bedding once a week to wash and air.
Non-licensed daycares are not subject to such regulations. They include well-run facilities that simply lack a playground (using public parks instead) as well as a mishmash of daycares run out of apartments, in shopping centers, and so forth. The waiting lists to enter licensed daycares often force parents to turn to potentially bad options for a much higher price.
My children attended Japanese public daycare, and had an experience very similar to that of the Finnish children in this video. They had art, sport, music, and English lessons, events such as sports days and drama performances, and took many field trips in the community.
@@marysue4729 I mean it really depends on your income and what sort of day-care centers you are able to afford for your kids to go. I mean please be more discrete before comparing "government-licensed" with actually government run day care centers
@@gaeig We were in the lowest income bracket for at least one year, paying 5000 yen a month per child at a municipal (city-run) daycare. As I said, fees are based on income for govenment-licensed daycares: that means you don't pay more money and get a better facility. Students in the same classroom are paying different fees.
I've seen several videos about Finland's good systems now and I wonder why the "reporters" never actually go into the history of how these systems came to be. I know staff being educated at university plays a big role, but they never explore how it was made possible that so many people could be educated at such a high level and quality (which takes several years) for them to be employed in all sorts of school systems and probably being paid accordingly. AKA the backgrounds of what would make it possible for it to be implemented in other countries as well.
I moved from UK to Finland, and got married and had a child here in 2022. I am homesick for the UK, but with all the benefits we get here, it wouldn't make sense to move back. My son goes to a lovely daycare for 7 hours a day and we pay the maximum 295 euros per month. We still had parental leave under the old system, but even so, I had 3 months and my husband had 6 months. It made sense to do it that way, because I'm self-employed, while he has a more secure job to go back to. His employer was very supportive and even promoted him before he returned to work! As for tax, it's not that much more, or about the same as I paid in the UK. UK just doesn't want to make childcare a priority. The only inequality I don't like in Finland is that women are required to have a health check in order to claim their parental leave, while men are not.
I'd want men to at least get a mental health check-up. The current system came to be because women have post-birth complications magnitudes more often than men, who'd likely only have mental complications at best.
Why though? Why do you not watch your own child? Why pass him off to someone else for 7 hours of the day when you are able to do so?
@@RextheRebel Because the daycare also allows the child to socialise and learn different skills.
@@RextheRebel Because we both have jobs (in my case, a business to run), in order to pay for the roof we live under. Housing in Finland is not cheap and living costs are rising like everywhere else.
@@XGD5layer Unfortunately, when you go for your checkup, they don't actually treat any of those birth complications. Almost two years after having my son, I still have continuing health issues and the Finnish healthcare system just does not care. This is one of the worst aspects about living in Finland, in my opinion.
"The most important thing is *the right* for children to be here, not the parents to go to work." Wow
Simple minds love simple answers. Who pays for the baby's necessities while the parents don't work for a quarter of the year? Who does the job the parents left behind, and are they compensated as well? Why is family planning left behind in favor of higher taxes, especially when our planet is suffering under the population we already have? Does this not set parents above others in society? Do they retain skills in fast moving jobs, meaning this is silently crippling their economy?
@@WorldWarIVXX Is this your way of saying you have better questions than the people living in these conditions for decades, while you just clicked on a video suggested by CZcams's current algorithm?
For every one of these modern "rights" there is a corresponding obligation. In this case the obligation for others to have to go to work to pay for you! There is no free money tree.
@@bobtuiliga8691 Yeah, it's a cycle. I'm not gonna demonize that if it works well.
I'm Finnish father of 3. We just had pretty big reform for the child support, its not yet there where the government would want it as the reforms are pretty expensive. In any case its small steps at a time. Right now Finnish birth rate has been falling and these reforms aim to turn that around. With the reform my familys childcare cost went down from around 300 euros to 145 euros a month. They raised some income limits for the higher costs and also eased the cost for 2nd and 3rd child. So the 1st child costs most, then 2nd child doesnt cost much more. This was obviously a huge addition to my families budget.
I have to say compared to some 20 years a go being parent is now a lot more honored in our society. When you are working the bosses usually say that take the time, its only a small time of your life! As opposed to some 20-30 years a go you were watched with queer eyes if you had a kid coming. So its change thats most important.
One interesting note that Finlands tax collection is 31,5% of the Finnish GDP, compared to 33,5% of UK.. just saying, its not always about money.
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One thing to note also is that from outside view UK has spent quite a lot of effort on infighting, wasting effort to un-necessary things. Trying to find people to plame.
Some of these reforms can take 10-15 years to plan and take into action. That means that there can be multiple different parties and governments planning and executing the same reform.. then you can blame any single government or minister if it goes to wrong direction, you then just need to fix it. Fixing small things is easy once the train has left the station.
I like to think that Finns have used the effort to actually combat the hard problems. Right now our government is facing some unecessary issues.. hopefully they would ease out.
@@RicochetForce Not really. That's only one way to interpret that "data". If the system is not designed to be hostile towards families, toward having kids, if women (and men) don't feel like it's zero sum game, where they having both not "allowed" (or not viable) and they must choose between either family or career - then such "capitalistic" interpretation of data loses ground, shifting culture and interpretation of the subject more towards "humanistic" angle and toward family-centric society.
My daughter is only 22 days old and I really don't want to be only present on the weekends. I want to be there for my child but I also want to be able to provide for her and my wife. Nursery costs are insane.
6:04 this one line sums everything.
We tried that in Sweden in the 70s and 80s, they left with their companies.
Although Astrid Lindgren became poor so I guess something came out of it.
Finland is similar to the rest of the Nordic countries, i.e. today parents in Norway get a full year of parental leave, with 1/3 reserved for dad, 1/3 for mom and then they divide up the last third any way they like.
Back when we had our first kid in 1989, my wife and I had agreed up front that we would do half a year each.
Look how Nice and Clean it is here… like Ottawa used to be…
I love the Finnish framing, and I get the feeling that even the people making the video only fully got it when they were cutting the video - why don’t men rebel? We often frame childcare as a responsibility and a lot of work. And while that is true - it can also be hugely fulfilling to actually have time to spend with your children and see them grow up. Why don‘t men fight for equal care? They would get a closer and happier relationship with their family in return. They wouldn’t need to ask their wives anymore how their child is doing at school or what it would like for Christmas - they would know.
I also love how public goods like childcare are apparently perceived in Finland. That it’s the states responsibility and that people who care for children actually need to be very well educated and have enough time to take care of children as individuals - not a group of 20-30 children all at once.
But I think one point is missing in our discussion. Daycare hours from 8-18 o’clock are well and good if both parents have to work full-time.
But maybe that’s also an issue?
Why should we need two adults working full time to finance their family?
The next step is giving people, especially families more free time to spend with their loved ones and hobbies. Life can’t be all about work. We need time to decompress, we need quality time to socialise. Maybe 5-7 hours a day would already be way more feasible than the 8-10 hours we are currently expected to work. Children deserve a community that actually has time to take care of them. Parents deserve time for themselves, to have hobbies and friendships. When we allow work to occupy such a huge chunk of the day, parents only have time for childcare responsibilities and a bit of housework afterwards.
We need time for a full life. For community. Every part, be it free-time, architecture and public goods should be designed to facilitate a good life for people, in community, with hobbies, and happy and healthy children.
And the men get better salary than women, but every family can decide their own things which one cares the child and how long.
Providing child care is the most economically sound approach for a country.
This is phenomenal.
I'd move to Scandinavia in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the miserable winters. Not sure months of darkness and sub-zero temperatures are worth it. Jealous of the amount they pay for nursery though.
Months of darkness? It depends where you live.
November is the worst. Then there's Christmas with lights everywhere.
The weather is an interesting thing; foreigners often complain and it can be a challenge. For most Finns, however, winter is a fine season and the four very different seasons is seen as an advantage compared to places where the whole year is just more of the same.
I'd love that aspect too.
Meh I've been living in Sweden for 7 years now and you get used to the winters! Just do a lot of skiing, ice skating and light candles at home. Lean into the "hygge" hehe
There's snow during the winter unlike in the UK. It creates a lot of natural light to the environment.
finland should be the model country for all . see india where minority chindren are denying school entry because they born in a muslim or Christian family
Where, do you have any statistics or data?
@@khosrowanushirwan7591 if u read news u get it other than godi media
Not for me thanks
Stats ?
Why don’t parents outside Finland not rebel/still do getting children?
Because it happens everywhere....
At least that's what they tell me.
When I got pregnant it was already decided that the father would be home for 6 months to care for his child. Turns out he took about 70% of all parental leave since I got sick. And even if I hadn't he'd still take all the time off he could just to be with his son. This kind of interaction with both parents is vitally important for the future wellbeing for our children.
Yet women continue to argue against men taking parternety leave for more than 3 months. Any true feminist would fight for the right of the father to be home with their child. Feminism is about equality after all, it means equal rights for all genders. And placing the needs of the child first should be a priority in every country, yet we have a handful who still haven't rattified the UN Declarations of Children's Rights (North Korea and USA amongst them). Those who have written that declaration into their laws and constitutions, what's your exuse? Don't come and say that children are our future if you don't care about their childhood.
Before having kids the tax % felt a bit high but after kids the feeling changed a lot. (even before kids it was ok to pay high taxes to ahve well functioning country)
This. Right now we also have a nursing problem which would need money.. I would not mind paying 1% more in taxes if it would mean that it would solve the nursing problem!!
This! I'm from Austria and I was self employed for 10 years before I had kids. It did feel like the income tax took quite a big bite out of my paychecks before. But ever since I had kids, my quarterly payments kept on shrinking until they reached zero and currently they actually reimburse me year after year.
The issue is the government is so lazy 🦥 money is spent so inefficiently it drains virtually all the positives.@@odman7945
It should be noted that childless people carry these taxes.
We always get accused of not contributing, then get shafted by our colleagues in vacation planning "because school vacation periods", etc.
But we are actually paying for all this stuff with our labor. Nobody ever wants to acknowledge that simple fact.
@@sneezyfido You need to think about big picture in long run also - our kinds will pay future taxes when you are retired so that goverment is able to pay also your pensions. And our kids are working in hospitals, retirement homes etc. keeping you alive when you are old..
Finland also has the lowest birthrates in Europe and one of the lowest in the world. In the coming decades Finland will change drastically. Thus, as a Finn, I'm not convinced that we have a sustainable system.
As a Finn, we need a drastic philosophical reworking of our system, or we'll just disappear.
And now imagine if they make it harder for parents to start a family...
@@atilla4352 making it easier (easiest in the world) certainly hasn't helped, so maybe it's not worth it to keep throwing taxpayer's money away
And it would be ridiculous worse if the government cut all this and said "You wanna be parents? Haha here's the bill, have fun paying it"
@@miguelpadeiro762 if it's not working, if the birthrate keeps decreasing anyway, then it doesn't sound ridiculous to me but smart...
I am truly shocked to see that it's not more like us in the UK, thanks for reminding me how lucky I am to live in Norway. Peternal leave is very common here and dad's almost think it's like cool, like trendy if you know what I mean, they have all the gadgets for the kids and walk around town with the other dad's etc. I was very lucky when we had our son, I was the one working full time, so I took the whole periode of 1,5 year with 80% pay check. Day care is almost the same here and even cheeper if you earn less and some places they are free.
I love Hanna Sarkkinen interview part. Amazing voice of reason
Here in Canada we have had parental leave since 1993 allowing for parents to take a year or more split between them.
This is the main difference between civilization and barbarism. Few societies are civilized, and it is those that put children rights and education as a priority, with policies that will give same attention and opportunities to the children of all.
Finland is literally dying as a nation, birthrates are 1.32....
@@rimiserk8277don't be silly.
Finland has a higher murder rate. Shrug.
Societies and people can be judged by how they treat the ones with no power or voice of their own.
This video makes me very emotional and i wish that all countries could have as much respect for children and parents as they do in Finland. However here in th UK our problems are very ingrained, we do not have the same values because of the evolution of our country. The issue is complicated but seems easy to fix. In reality there is a mindset or attitude that has been passed down among our people and those in power that is not so easily uprooted as to create this kind of change. Not to say it isnt possible but we have a long way to go.
I'm an American, we pay more for childcare than the U.K. Here, paying for childcare costs an entire salary, from $200+ a day (roughly €189), and not enough daycare to go around. I work in retail, and my ex-manager gave birth to her daughter, only to find out that every daycare in the area had anywhere to a six to two year waiting list, and didn't allow infants until after a certain age. So basically in order to have daycare for her child, she needed to apply for daycare the day she found out she was pregnant.
Moreso, here in America, maternity leave is finally becoming normalized and paternity leave is heavily stigmatized. Men are mocked and shamed for wanting to invest love and support for their child. Active fathers are so incredibly important. My brother ended up being the parent home with my niece when she was in her first year and a half of life (she's two now) and now they have an incredible bond that so many daughters don't have (like me, I didn't quite get that bond)
We need to fix this.
The system seems so barbaric, yet they want to be modern in useless areas, before I get married,I would rather ask my future husband if he is going to contribute to the raising of our child, if he gives me a nonsensical answer,I am just going to next him,I don't have time for the idiocy, this should be expected,but what can I do when we live in a society that infantalize men
As a finn, this paints really a ideal picture of Finnish daycare system. Its true, that the cost of daycare is really low and good here (if you dont earn enough, its even free), BUT in my opinion - there is also problems like big groups and changing adults. Staff is definitely not so permanent in all the places :D And for me, its bizarre how people think it has no matter, whether the mom or dad is with the baby. Mom breastfeeds (if possible) after all! And in Finland the other thing thats behind those paternity leave laws: the 2. aim is to get moms back to work sooner. Many times dad is little time at home and babies go to daycare at only 1-1,5 years old. For childs development, its not the best desicion to be the majority of the day in big groups with changing adults (look for example attachment theory). So I personally dont agree with it, that Finland puts childs right at the center of everything. But yes, there is good things in Finnish daycare system.
I absolutely agree with you about the importance of chuld development. Here in the usa, the babies go at 6 weeks old! 😢
It's generally not common to see moms breastfeeding their babies for more than 12 months, at that point it's perfectly fine for the father to switch to the role of main caregiver. Children deserve to have the same deep emotional bond with the father, it's hard to achieve when you aren't at home for 10 hours a day
@@mandi3891 actually we dont speak of "baby" anymore when the child is over 12 months. That is referred as a child. Of course if that is what family wants, father is totally better option for a toddler, than day care. But for a tiny little baby, it is better to be with the mother. Did you know that babies under 7 months actually think they are a part of their mother? I think thats logical, after all baby developes inside mother and (usually) mom is the one from whom the baby gets nutrition and comfort (because breastfeeding is lot for comfort too). Babies even regognizes their mother after birth. For my understation, the close bond with mom, only helps the child to create close bond with father too. The bond with father comes usually a little bit later. That is not mean the parents are not equal, but the roles are different. But yes of course it is different with 12 months + old. I think actually same way for that, the best for the child is to live with both his/her biological parents and get to create a close bond with both (allthought that is not always the case). But its good that each family can make their own decision, if both parents are happy for mom being a say-at-.hom mom, it is not a bad or wrong thing
@@adrinedesouza Babies need to be fully on breast milk only 4-6 months. In finland less than 10% of infants only have breastmilk when they are 6 months old. It's really really common that after that point the baby will slowly transfer to bottle feeding. The recommendations we give to pregnant mothers is to give kids breastmilk in addition on solids atleast until the baby is 12 months old. After that it's "however long the family wants to continue".
@@adrinedesouza Two years? I find that hard to believe. I've lived in indigenuous communities in Guatemala and Africa and even there, breastfeeding usually stops when the mother gets pregnant again, and the average gap between siblings is two years. Also, an 18 or 24 months old toddler should also be eating solid foods and doesn't need to be breastfeed all the time, so pumping is an option.
ALL industrialised countries, including those in Scandinavia and Hungary whose respective cultures of child and parental support are some of the world's most generous, are to varying degrees suffering an existential demographic decline because people are making the economic decision to have no more than one or two children. Finland's fertility rate has fallen to 1.4 births per woman. The population replacement rate is 2.1.
In Britain, "the Department for Education (DfE) is expecting the number of pupils at state-funded schools to decline by 944,000 over the next decade." (The Guardian, 29 May '23). In London "... schools are not shutting because they are bad, but because inner London no longer has enough children to fill them." (The Guardian, 13 Apr '23). You can provide as many low cost child care facilities as you like but ultimately they need children.
Such an important story, but OMG Perttu's apartment!!! It is so stunning, please Perttu, do a tour.
I'll let him know. Also, thanks for watching. (Adam)
I pay 100£ a month in Tokyo. it’s really helpful having childcare going back to workforce
I am against systems that discourage parents from being home with their children. If tax paid benefits are given to centers, it should be provided to at home parents.
Absolutely.
Nailed it. Mothers from the community should be watching their own kids together at the local park or at one another homes. Not paying random women to raise their own kids.
@@RextheRebelyou realize that the long break from working severely affects their career path?
Not every mother wants to stay at home for years. To have someone qualified in your community taking care of the children for a few hours a day is not unnatural. Those people are neither random nor strangers to the parents and of course they get compenstated for their time and effort.
@they don't care because they are probably men and their career, their money and their aspirations are not compromised, the only ones who have to make the sacrifice in their heads are women and they must also be happy with this because they say so🤦
Wonderful to see the kids playing outside with their friends at their daycare and that the Early Years teachers are valued as important educators. Here in the UK there is a massive difference between Early Years staff in nurseries versus school teachers in terms of salary and qualifications. Yet the Early Years are the most important years developmentally!
Feels so peaceful.
In Canada, there is 15 weeks maternal and 8 weeks paternal plus another 61 weeks you can share between you.
It doesn't matter how cheap it is, Brits would not want to pay any more in taxes and the gov would not listen either.
Sad.
Maybe the Brits should consider taxing wealth and not income? They-by those with the broadest shoulders; that have benefited most from the system , contribute the most. It's crazy that passive income is taxed less than those that earn their pay from salaries.
@@gatn71Brits and Americans have very similar ideologies. Except when it comes to gun laws ofc. Whenever you bring up the idea of taxting the rich they call you a communist 😅
You literally wouldn't have to pay more, just adjust what the taxes are spent on
@@thedudefromrobloxx literally? OK 👍
I've been living in England for 10 years and it's getting poorer every year
Poster defined as? Less money? Less money for whom? Less money compared to? Data, mate, data.
Great material!
really good video!!
It's common sense, logical. That's why they do it.
Don´t know if Finland is the best place in the world to be a parent. But the fact is that the birth rates among Finnish people are declining very fast. This sharp decline started a few years ago and there seems to be no end in sight.
The reason is partly quite simple - every year less and less people reach the age when people usually start a family. Less parents leads to less children.
@@sampohonkala4195 forgive me if this sounds silly, but it sounds like you're implying less people in Finland every year are living into their twenties
@@ChartreuseDan If some 2 - 3 decades ago fewer and fewer people were born every year, it would be unlikely that now suddenly more and more kids were born from 2023 on.
@@sampohonkala4195 I thought I might have been being silly. Yeah, I just got hung up on your wording. You're making complete sense
@@ChartreuseDan English is my second language of four - nowadays they start English from grade one, so in the future the Finns will express their thoughts more clearly.
5:57 'tax the rich more!'
only right answer, thanks to her for being so clear!
England isn't the only place that child care is ridiculously expensive.
It is frightfully expensive in the US too.
Also, i just love that you got so many shots of dads walking their children. You don't see that often in the west.
Finland is Western too.
Yeah you see many young Finnish dads with their kids nowadays, a change from my own childhood. Looks great!
@monkeypaw0 Still doesn't change the fact that MOST fathers don't.
@@ryyb_himself Still eastern Europe my friend haha.
@@nikoa97 According to whom? Geographically more Eastern than most of Europe, sure, but that's not how Eastern Europe is defined.
Привет 🙋🏼♂️ Замечательное видео 👍🏻📹 ✅️
Every video I watch about Finland I am tempted to move there
I , myself came from Britain. I am a N.N.E.B from working in an orphanage then to a hospital in the north, being a nannie till the family deceided to go to Australia. I was not ready for that. I came to
Montreal. Quebec where the people did not like the English people. I moved to B.C. and I was offered a job in a university in child care which happened at the wrong time for me. We moved to Ontario and I found myself in a daycare. Which was good in the beginning but over the years the wages were low, bad conditions and a few of the daycares closed. I believe it has to do with the system. The parents pay a high fee and my last year was not good. All businesses have to make a profit but when it comes to daycare here in Ontario they were private then most daycares went downhill, sold then different rules while the ladies all suffered in one way or another to the system here .Finland is respectful towards parents and all families have different situations. Daycare workers are not respected in many ways here. Because the child today is the adult of tomorrow and the workforce of how our society will be.
Tomorrow, next month and for years to come. Thank you for your time and attention M. Taha
I'm an american childcare worker, and today I fully broke down after I dropped the food my mother bought for me. Because I couldn't afford to replace it. I have medical bills and medication no insurance will cover. My school makes so much money, but the teachers are paid almost nothing. My rent is $100 MORE than I make in a month, and I live in a relatively small 1 bedroom apartment. America is broken.
I need this program to thrive for long that many citizens around the world can just point to this as their demand that a better way is proved to be possible.
WOW!! GO, FINLAND!!!
Finland is one of the most expensive countries in Europe to live in and visit. One person spends about 900 euros per month on basic necessities, not including rent.
A significant part of your salary in Finland will go to taxes.
Due to high competition, it can be difficult to find a job and Finnish is considered one of the most difficult languages in the world to learn.
Yes. You can’t have it all. There is no solutions only better or lesser choices. And every system different opportunity costs. But we have it good here…
Laughs in rural at 900€ month...
Where are you getting that 900 number? I'm spending around 400 not including rent and I live in Helsinki
It's easy to imagine a world where our children are raised by someone else in an idyllic setting and grow up with all their needs fulfilled - where they are happy, content and secure. In addition, we only pay a minimal amount as the State takes care of the bill for us. Unfortunately, this Utopia does not exist anywhere on Earth (not even in Finland).
what a sad view of the world you have. a utopia is not required for children to be cared for adequately and those tax dollars could go a lot further with proper legislation. I get the feeling had you been born 300 years ago you would be saying we cannot support an economy without slave labor.
I work with a mechanical engineer. He is married with 2 boys and I asked him if quality of life in Finland was better than here in Australia. And he said Australia was better for his family. He’s Australian, his wife is Finnish.
People always have this magical idea that taxes will be paid by someone else. It’s not the case. Scandinavian countries are very high taxing.
@@AussieZeKieL I lived in a Scandinavian country for over 5 years, and I paid taxes there. The taxes weren't a problem - why would they be when they offer so many social services (public education, healthcare, postal system, police force, unemployment funds etc.)? That said, I also left that country and I believe that where I live now is better, not because of taxes but because of cultural and linguistic reasons.
I am from Finland and it seems now our system is more or less chaos and collapsing all around.
Maybe in the Helsinki aria not in other parts of the country.
I was paying 900 US dollars per month for my child in California, for 3 days a week of day care...and this was 10 years ago. I worked weekends so I would take care of my child on Monday and Tuesday, which were my days off.
UK needs to learn and catch up with the Nordic countries.
We've had decades of opportunity to vote in ways that would have led us to a Nordic model, but time and time again we've instead decided we hate poor people and want to be like America.
I thought that this is the case everywhere in the EU, isn’t it? Here in Austria (Upper Austria) the childcare/kindergarten is free until 20 hours a week. The afternoon care costs between € 46 and € 119 per month plus lunch, depending on your household income and if there are any siblings already in the facility. My son is now older, but I remember that 15 years ago I only had to pay for his lunch in kindergarten, and I think that was not more than € 50 per month.
One would think, but in the UK not. Hence they are out of the EU and our 'socialist' ways. (If you ask me, as a Finn, it's about productivity, not socialism.)
Austria has avery special system, even within the EU.
Tarja Turunen really had a complete carrier change hasn't she... 1:44
Such a different life after Nightwish.
Yes I saw the door and yes I'll walk myself out...
Haha. Was looking for this.
Its her side job!
Hanna Sarkkinen out there slaying, they speak the truth, "Maybe tax the rich more" !!
I've always looked at the UK as a dysfunctional class society that doesn't really fit into Europe. But 1-2k£/month for childcare? That's not making any sense, you're practically paying one job position outright?
It actually does make sense. Let me explain from a position of a foreigner who just came to live to the UK recently. The price is such to cover the nursery costs, in which the teachers' salary is the biggest part. I don't think it's too high, the teachers also need to earn to provide for their families. I would not trust my child to someone who is struggling with money, they would not be in the right mind state to to take care of others. Now, who should pay for that? Government through taxes or people out of pocket? That is a serious question which cannot be answered in a couple of sentences. Instead, let me tell you why I personally give up most of my salary to send my twins to the nursery (£2500 a month), for 3 reasons: 1) I can see that the nursery gives them more than I can, the teachers are really good professionals and the kids then later transition to school much better than those who sat at home. 2) In the long run I'll earn much more than a woman who just had a break or worked part time while sitting with kids. If you count over a woman's entire life, you'll see that staying at home reduces her total income enormously (due to missed opportunities), that is the money she could spend on her children's education or helping them to buy their own house. 3) I just love my job, I would be so bored to sit at home, some people love it and I'm happy for them. But I'm ready to pay some money just to be working, because it makes my life more interesting and satisfying.
Still crazy low birth rates in Finland...why?
People in Finland aren’t family oriented anymore. Im in my 30s and my generation spent their 20s backpacking in South East Asia and things like that, some still do. There is much more emphasis on education, career, hobbies and living your best life than having a family. And some wish they weren't single but they are too shy to find someone, sadly.
Still crazy low birth rates in other places.
It's not just about making men stay at home or women. Parenting is a team work and both should sacrifice. Neighter men nor women should feel bad about staying with their child. If one of them earns more the other one can stay. It's not an abuse to stay with your child and take care of them because after all it was your decision to bring them into the world. If you don't want to be a parent then don't have kids. Stop glamorising like Finland is heaven. Everything in life needs sacrifice and compromise. It's the system which needs to be sorted.
It is a quite nice situation for all involved, if the child has both their parents spending a lot of quality time with them and additionally some hours of high quality daycare time with other children and compentent adults they can bond to. It is a balanced life for the whole family, but of course a priviledge not everyone can afford.
I live in the US and my husband and I decided not to have children. A big part of that decision was because it's just so expensive we really couldn't afford to raise a child well. We would be living in poverty if we had kids. As it is we both work two jobs to try to keep a bit ahead, but the prices for everything keep going up and wages don't. At what point are two adults working two jobs unable to even pay their own bills, let alone having KIDS!
I also think that in regards to men not demanding more parental leave to spend with their kids in the US we kind of have a culture of men being very hands off with childcare to the point there is almost this stigma against men wanting to take on a "woman's role" of caring for their children. We have a lot of toxic ideals about mean here and what it is to be a man, and it's basically all about physical strength, money and power. Those are the only things men are really encouraged to care about. Caring for children is "wussy" and the idea of needing to be with your newborn child to bond with them is not even a consideration beyond a bit of time right after they are born.
the actual cost of childcare is of course not 300 EUR, but much more, but subsidized by local government.
That's... exactly what they explain in the video.
80 years ago this situation was called as joint family where children used to grow up with their cousins and extended family and it was totally free.
Right, but the work was being done at the expense of women - for free.
@@ShilgenVens Not to mention without the requisite education. People who venerate the past are so ignorant to the past's reality.
In a long term family unit, all work is done for common good. Assuming the men go to work outside the home for a wage, they work for free too if all the money is spent on the family
Yep
@@ShilgenVensyep
1 Find a service that people think is a need and required for “fairness”.
2 Create expensive rules and regulations to raise the cost of the service.
3 Continue to add regulations and penalties until the primary duty of the people running the service is compliance instead of quality and price thus killing innovation and value.
4 Socialize the service removing the threat of government action and hiding the true cost of the service.
5 Take credit for giving the people a better deal when you really didn’t.
The question should be "isn't a bit concerning that Finnish people start to believe they are so good that would anything they can (lie or exaggerate) to keep being seeing as a really good country", e.g. "the happiest country in the world/one of the countries with more suicides"
Why do women have to slam car doors? Push it, don't slam it
Here in the Northeastern part of the US , daycare is $2000-$5000 a month depending on the quality of the facility, literally the cost of a mortgage. My wife ending up leaving the workforce because all of her earnings were going to childcare, and she decided it just didn't make sense.
So true. DC, $3500 data point.
Watched 3/4ths of this, and just for context, Finns are having record low numbers of children, which is already having an economic impact. The new government doesn’t need to perform cuts in childcare as they are happening naturally.
The only word I didn't hear was 'profit'.
We have a similar mentality and system in Iceland. We don't call it "day care" or "child care" actually, for us it's "play school". It's a part of the education system, it's the first level in that system. So staff are to a large extent university educated teachers who've learned and now apply pedagogical methods in their work with the kids.
"Why dont men rebel" I think we all know the reason...in most cases, they don't want to look after the children and would prefer to go back to work
Lol you obviously don’t understand men whatsoever
Or then there is no reason to rebel because the only way that work are weapons. If you dont care about your kids it doesnt mean others dont.
So in UK whole salary goes to daycare? Why work then or how you do it?
because if you stop working for several years it's extremely difficult to get back to the workplace or improve your career after that. Not all women want to become their husband's economic slaves without having any economic independence or any pride or interest outside of their"family".
Years ago, the British were known among others for their love of animals. Now, too often I read headlines about people killing animals in the cruelest way possible, how sad.
How miserable must it be in the world if Finland is portrayed as some kind of utopia? The Nordic countries have definitely been the most successful of democracies, but expectations are ridiculously high. But I definitely won't move.
Wait, what? Who said you should move there?
How could you even work when childcare ist so expensive? I couldnt earn enough money to even put my child in childcare.
That's certainly what happens often in Canada. We get one year off between the parents (can be taken at the same time, so both parents are off for six months, or more like 8 months mom stays home, then dad does 4 months)
Often people do the math and decide that with two or more children, it doesn't make sense to keep paying one person's salary to daycare. And the (almost always) mom stops working until the youngest is in kindergarten.
That's what I did, and actually I loved it. Spending time with my children, hanging out with other women and children... It was really nice.
Difficult to get back into the workforce after that, though.
@@er6730if you want to give up your career completely this is the best way to do it. Being out of the workforce for several years makes you a very uninteresting potential employee when you try to re-enter the job market, let's not even talk if you aspire to have a prestigious career in some particular demanding professions.
This looks really good. However, Finland has a total fertility rate of 1.37 births per woman. Replacement rate is 2.1
In the UK, the TFR is 1.56
In the US, the TFR is 1.64
So what exactly is going on? It seems like this kind of support should increase birthrates, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
unreliable work: you can and will be replaced the company loyalty doesnt matter anymore, salaries keep going down, unreliable healthcare system, drugs everywhere, more street violence, sexual violence on kids
work life needs to change back to what it was so people can plan life, buy house etc with this unemployment, part time jobs or ridiculous low salaries its common sense no one
wants to bring kids into it too
US is no different from UK, it's all about business, what else can we charge for. The shocking part is that water is free in the restaurants and bathrooms are free to use by anyone in majority of the country unlike in Europe.
Because we keep voting in the same two parties all the time, any transformation thats been done in the distant past has been done from liberal.. policies