The Rings of Power: How This Mess Happened
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- čas přidán 20. 02. 2022
- The Rings of Power: How This Mess Happened
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I'm really glad we got Lord of The Rings at the time we did. We'll always have those masterpieces no matter what. It warms my heart to see Amazon sink a billion dollars into this garbage only to be completely rejected.
I am actually really glad Amazon isn't trying to do a LOTR show. Even if they stuck with the characters and story, they clearly would have shoehorned in all sorts of "improvements".
Holy shit… you are so right about them being made at “the perfect time”.
Technology was just good enough that we could get golum and certain magic effects looking good but still mainly relying on practical effects. And socially, a faithful adaptation was perfectly acceptable, if not lauded. Just a bit later and it would have ALL been replaced with CGI and adding Woke elements to the story.
You can literally track the regression with time:
LoTR Films > Hobbit Films > RoP Show.
Jeff is worth hundreds of billions of dollars.
A billion dollars is nothing more than pocket change to him.
They paid that money so they could destroy and rape Tolkien. Everything must be destroyed on the altar of deranged, gender bending Marxism. At this point you'd get as good entertainment if you just hired Nazis to write everything. There's no difference at all. Fanatics will make it with their one-track minds. That can produce nothing of qualty if you give it a billion years.
@@cashewnuttel9054 that's just his money not including the companies over all cash
Just for future reference - Vanity Fair needs to be understood for what it is - a PR firm. All legacy media is just corporate and government PR - let them know you understand this. They actually think people like and respect them.
ABC Owens Vsnity
Don’t have anything to add to this. Just that I was the 69th person to like your comment.
Yes, that’s literally all I have to say.
Hey guys type in 'Lord of Cringe: Amazon hires fake fans to push an narrative' on CZcams.
While it's not the original video, it's because they unlisted it. Hidden or deleted. I'm not sure if you could find it. Amazon doing so much damage control because their intentions are right there. In plain view.
They legit picked influencers who never read the books to a trailer revealing party, over real fans who did.
That's insane and embarrassing.
They also have other 'fans', influencers, in their own languages videos similar to the UK to promote in their own respective countries. It's in Dutch, German, Italian, French and Spanish so far. I dont know when Amazon will unlist those videos as well. Their intentions is right there in the videos.
Yeah, kinda like Bleeding Cool, CBR and Sci-Fi are to Marvel and DC.
It’s in the first word in there name that describes them.
Calling Galadriel an 'elder stateswoman' is just the most cringe thing ever. She is a near godlike ethereal creature, and they reduce her character to this - the most base thing.
You are right
But she holds a sword now and it makes her soooo cool and strong! Who wants to see her standing there having a subtle but engaging battle of will with her opponent? We want magic to be more like ‘arry ‘otter, because I’m a hufflepoooof and want to change boring, white, Lord of The Rings to fit my own misery. It’s about time Tolkien is fixed to be more inclusive, diverse and not racist!
- Rings of Power Fans.
PS, there was a specific reason that the series will happen to release on the day of Tolkien’s death, it’s all in the symbolism…
Gatekeeping is the most important thing in our culture right now.
She beheld the trees
There is in fact an epic failure in Hollywood in how to write old beings (elves, dwarves, wizards, gods, vampires...). They just don't get TIME, nor do they get wisdom that can't be condensed in an easy moral high-ground
And the story of Middle-Earth, especially first and second age, is all about time and wisdom
In fact, now that I think of it, the Evils in Tolkien tales are about beings seeing Beauty and wanting to make it about themselves (the song, the silmarils, the trees, even Galadriel's hair...) because they couldn't handle just letting it be like it was made, for all to behold and enjoy...
Nah, she’s also an elder stateswoman. You’re an idiot if you have an issue with that statement.
@@gatsbygoodwood2575 Tolkien died in September, and this was released in January/February. However, the series IS coming out on September 2nd, the day of his death, if that's what you mean!
“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like.”
- Lindsey Weber, E.P. Amazon's LOTR Series, Vanity Fair (Feb. 2022)
"There are certainly themes Tolkien felt were important. We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyse what was important to Tolkien and to try to honour that. In a way, were trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves."
- Peter Jackson, Interview with GreenCine (Dec. 2002)
In Tolkien's world the entirety of the story they want to present would be happening in pre-historic England and northern Europe. Ya know what northern Europe even today tends to lack? Ethnic diversity...
If we took her statement at face value the ONLY logical conclusion would be that ALL actors will be white (with the possible exception of "non-human" races like Orcs or Goblins or Trolls or whatever new stuff you want to make up).
A ww1 veteran who lived a full life of sorrow strife and victory didn’t know what the world looked like but I do - Lindsay Weber
Whoah, wow, just... wow 😮I didn't know these quotes.
@@dwsel It's actually been copied a hundred times by now since the controversies started, but I'll give them this one since the parallel of the quotes shows two different mindsets going into adapting someone else's work.
The difference here, If you look closely, is that one is a LOTR fan who happens to make movies and the other is corporate board room full of money hungry faceless lizards
Things I just can't wrap my head around: (1) Equating the lineage of Numenor with the Mafia. (2) Amazon waited until Christopher Tolkien was dead and no longer able to prevent them from producing this atrocity. According to one report I came across, they started production two days after his death. They not only trashed J.R.R. Tolkien's work, they trampled on Christopher Tolkien's grave. If anyone can nail down the facts of this situation so that it's more than a rumor, I would much appreciate it. (3) What is increasingly obvious is that the people Amazon put in charge of Rings of Power simply don't like or understand Tolkien. They don't understand the difference between political correctness and morality, and it's probably Tolkien's powerful stance on the overarching importance of goodness that they can't stomach. These folks compromise with evil so glibly that it's clear that they would never have made, probably do not understand, the hard choices that Frodo, Gandalf, Boromir and yes, Galadriel made. They don't like Tolkien because their own hands are unclean, they fail the tests that Tolkien's characters pass, and so Tolkien's work makes them squirm. (4) Tolkien's heroes are not heroic because of physical feats, but moral ones. The folks at Amazon simply don't get this. They stuff Galadriel into armor and toss her onto an ice cliff because gross physical heroism is all they understand. This is totally different from what Frodo and Sam endured getting to the Cracks of Doom. Okay, rant over. Thanks for the space.
this is one of the best analysis I have come across
@@Margatatials Thank you!
I just had a thought. A perfect depiction of the difference between LOTR and this mess is: The famous shot of Frodo's face as he confronts Mordor for the first time, and the shot of Galadriel's expression as she walks through the city in armor. Just those two facial expressions, no words necessary. I'm too old for the graphic work, can somebody do this? It would be more powerful than anything we can say.
Wonderful analysis!
#2 -- they also booted Tom Shippey around after Christopher's death. The timing is interesting but no specific facts that I have seen.
#3 -- they put people in charge that have NO credits on IMBD. So they'll do whatever they are told.
And, lets not forget releasing the show on the day of Tolkien's death. I think they are just going for maximum offense.
Brilliant.
"Well, I would say that those are not the only beings in that class..." WIZARDS ARE NOT A CLASS IN LOTR, THEY ARE THEIR OWN RACE.
This just goes to show how far these corporate biggots understand Tolkien.
ZERO.
I'm 100% expecting there to be a black lesbian wizard with the side shaved hairstyle.
They're not even wizards in the traditional sense of the word, they're more like super heroes with domain over one element each. For example, Gandalf could tap into the sunlight (flame of Udun) to create and cast fire
Class?! This isn't DnD!
@@JP2GiannaT They obviously don't care. Dragons and dwarves and elves and swords make Warhammer fantasy the exact same thing as The Smurfs.
But hey! They are "fellow nerds" right!? Corporate shills know better than us plebs!
@@rhawkas2637 Yeah, with she/ring/them pronouns. If it worked for Star Trek Discovery, why not here.
Tolkien: "There were five wizards."
Amazon: "Five is a relative number."
That's colonialism
Amazon: "so hear me out. Before the five wizards there was this one super cool wizard we invented, he was like way more wise than gandalf and, and, he had TWO staffs and and... Where are you going?!"
@@dylanbiggs3997 I'm almost certain that there will be an original wizard who is a woman, just to shit on the lore even more
Jeff, there is a kernel of truth in what Amazon said about more than five wizards. There were 15 Valar and a great number of Maiar. In the 3rd age, 5 of the Maiar agreed to diminish themselves to go help the people of Middle-Earth (known as the wizards), but other Maiar went to Middle-Earth in the 1st age, so it is plausible that some Maiar went also in the 2nd age.
That being said, I doubt they will be able to write Maiar into their story in a way that is consistent in the world of Tolkien.
@@ghyslainabel where are they defined as wizards in Tolkien's publish texts?
Quote from Peter Jackson on his faithful adaption:
"We made a promise to ourselves at the beginning of the process that we weren't going to put any of our own politics, our own messages or our own themes into these movies. What we were trying to do was to analyze what was important to Tolkien and to try to honor that. In a way, we were trying to make these films for him, not for ourselves."
And that's why those films will be treasured forever, unlike this fanfiction.
To put into context just how dedicated and loyal of a fan base LOTR fandom is: Peter Jackson’s LOTR trilogy is widely regarded as one of if not THE best movie trilogy in history and lore fans STILL found plenty of things wrong, out of context, omitted and criticized.
They still enjoy the movies but they still have critiques…this is what Amazon stepped into. LOTR fans can smell BS and revile at being shown a turd but are told it’s gold
I'm not a diehard fan, but I know some. I'm just sitting here with popcorn knowing that woke culture finally stepped into a fandom that will not put up with it.
Lets see... we've got:
Godfather
Star Wars
Lord of the Rings
Yeah I think Lord of the Rings takes it.
Peter Jackson didn't gaslight us on the changes. And we knew that things would have to be cut.
If included everything, it would be four movies. And it wouldn't be broken up neatly, more or less where the books were divided.
Peter's version, is an adaptation, and derivative.
Amazon is telling us that their work is a new modern story, tackling modern issues.
It is not an adaptation, nor is it derivative.
Yep, there were quite a few changes in Jackson's movies I wasn't happy with - to flesh out Arwen so much, to make it seem as if Elrond generally disagreed with her choice of Aragorn and tried to make her revoke it, that stupid elven army showing up at Helm's Deep (I mean, the alliance at the end of the second age was called the LAST alliance for a reason 🙄), leaving out the scourging of the Shire, etc.
But Peter Jackson's movies still oozed out respect and love for Tolkien's work from every pore. And that's why I still cherish them and always will.
What we've seen from Amazon so far gives the impression that they couldn't care less about the original stories and just want to cash in on a big name...
Well, so be it. I have come to the conclusion that I'm just not the targeted audience for the new show.
I think the fact that Tolkien lorists still enjoy the movie trilogy despite the critiques shows to Jackson's dedication of the sources. Yes things were cut, changed, omitted, ect., but the themes that Tolkien wanted to convey tranfered because Jackson understood those themes and was able to craft them into a great film trilogy.
There will never be a truly 1:1 adaption of any written medium to a film medium. Mainly because film isn't like a novel or a comic. Film/tv shows have time limits.
Books and comics don't have that same Achilles's heel. They have word count limits but language is versatile enough that a writer can still convey themes and long stretches of time within a few sentences or a few paragraphs leaving the rest to the imagination. films can't.
Growing up, Star Wars meant a lot to me, made me consider how I treated and was treated by the people around me. But LOTR made me think of the world we live in and my place in it. Tolkein's creation actually made me THINK. I know I don't own the story any more than I own a romantic partner, but I feel the same way when someone abuses her, whether we've seen each other in years or not. I feel extremely pissed off.
It's just a show man it ain't gonna change any aspect of your life it's really no big deal.
You are not alone mate. I feel the same way.
@@rpggaming1976 a very boring way to look at life.
A lot of people are confused by the media and the entertainment industry, based on the premise that they are businesses and that their primary purpose is to make money. While profitability is important to sustainability, it takes a back seat to its real purpose, which is control. Through subtext and story-telling, you can shape the minds, particularly of young people, and thus control the narrative and thus actions of society at large. Social-engineering is the primary intent, and so they are willing to sacrifice obvious profit for what the people actually want to push their politics subconsciously on the masses. They too want to affect the way you think, to make you what the right calls "woke". And it is effective, after all look at how much opinions of young people have changed towards police, towards the concept of identity politics, and pushing a "white male patriarchy" as an oppressor class, with victim hierarchies that kids compete to belong to and which Jewish people are at the top of the pyramid of in spite of the fact that Jewish people make up less than 2% of the population and yet nearly 40% of the CEOs, board members, top lawmakers, entertainment and news moguls, and wallstreet giants in the nation.
Just dont watch it. I'm disappointed it's going to suck too, but it's just going to suck, we dont own it and we dont control it.
The books you love are still the same, this doesnt change them or make them worse.
I think my Dad made a good point when I was discussing this whole thing with him on a car trip home. If it was a Dungeons and Dragons story set in the Forgotten Realms or one of the OTHER worlds like Dragonlance or Eberron, then it would have sold well since strong warrior elves, variations of skin color, etc. exist in that world, so a lot of what they wanted to push was already there in the lore and it would have (probably) sold well. The major problem with using Tolkien’s work (and by extension Robert Jordan and Orson Scott Card) is that they are MICROSCOPICALLY specific with what their characters look like, how the world works and how it moves, and what different organizations are. Every character is described so much in detail that you could form a picture of them in your head easily and there not be much deviation from the intended portrayal. However, race-swapping characters/races or changing relationships so that you can have “representation” is so disingenuous that it’s painful. If you want to have representation, pick a lore that has that in spades and tell stories based on that or make your own! Don’t change the work of dead men so you can shoehorn your political narrative. /rant
Why would Galadriels sword, of Elven make, break from killing Orcs.
Was it a shitty sword?
Feanor sabotaged it because she turned him down! In fact, he was so angry he set up an alliance with Sauron! We'll have a montage with scary music and dim lights and all! (while we're making stuff up and disregarding timelines, why not go the whole way?)
@@guillaumeb5511 He stole it in the night and ruined the temper on the blade.
Just like the show runners came in the night and ruined the temper of Galadriel.
They even made the elves themselves straight up lose to orcs (all white, of course).
"In three words describe how you felt about the trailer......."
"Evil cannot create......."
“In three words describe how you felt about the trailer.”
Me: His Legacy Destroyed
Death of hope
Sadly that’s perfect
'Dis sum bullshit!
"I dont care"
I'm not watching
I think my favorite thing about this whole debacle is that Tolkien is bitch slapping them from beyond the grave with that "evil cannot create" quote.
Not only are they and everything they stand for the polar opposite of his entire philosophy and theology, but he perfectly describes them and their actions as works of the freaking devil
Same goes for Peter Jackson
Given the direction that Amazon went for in making Rings of Power, what they should have acquired was the rights to make "Tales of the Blue Wizards' and tell the story of Alatar and Pallando's exploits in the east. There is almost next to nothing written about the Southrons/Haradrim, and they could have had free rein to create any number of stories in that setting. Even the Blue Wizards themselves could have been portrayed as POC.
But then no one would've watched it. By naming it "Rings of Power," they've got eyes on it. Don't get me wrong--you're entirely correct. But you're asking people who can't think to think.
@@PolarizedMechs I don't know about that. Many people tuned in to Game of Thrones without knowing a single anything about it. Word of mouth will eventually draw people in if the show is good, and the LotR brand already does a lot of heavy lifting to attract audiences already familiar with the films.
Or they could have done a TV series about Aragorn's travels. Before the War of the Ring Aragorn travelled across the whole of Middle Earth. He served as a sword for hire in the Armies of Rohan and Gondor. But then he travelled into Harad and then Rhun to learn about the people's who were allied to Sauron. What he learn about the Haradriam and the Easterlings enabled him to make peace when he became high King after Sauron's fall. So a TV about his travels and him learning about the Haradriam and Easterlings culture and why they are allied to Sauron would have given them the diverse cast they wanted and would be within the lore.
Come to think of it, does Tolkien mention the skin tones of any of the wizards? Since ancestry is not an issue for the wizards, and we have no idea where they came from, is there any reason why the wizards couldn't be black, as in African? I actually like that idea. I can think of a few black actors who have the gravitas to make spectacular wizards.
@@creepyoldlady2995 We;ll, we do actually know where they came from, as they were all Maiar sent to Middle Earth by Manwe from the Undying Lands. As far as their descriptions go:
"They came therefore in the shape of Men, though they were never young and aged only slowly, and they had many powers of mind and hand."
As I said, they could very easily be depicted as POC.
“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made” - J. R. R. Tolkien
If Amazon can't sell this to the western fools, then they'll sell it to China by adding Chinese actors.
@@cashewnuttel9054 thing is though, China has quit buying. All hollywood's effort to capture that market has flopped, because Asia is different than the west and the bighshots refuse to realize it.
That's not even a quote he said or wrote. That's some rephrasing of another quote. "The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own".
@@urdeadmeat7 it's an adaptation. A better one than whatever Amazon is trying to do
People need to stop using quotes. That's not even Tolkien. It's from TV-Tropes, which ironically took from Tolkien: "The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own."... you're not even quoting a source correctly, you're proving Amazon's point. All you need is a name attached to something and people will accept it, congrats you reinforced the very thing you despised. This is why they're doing it , it's the same thing you did. All the "Tolkien" fans are ignorant hypocrites because they don't even know his work.
Sticking to the source material is hard for Amazon, especially because they have to pander to that loud vocal 1% that’ll give them perfect reviews despite not making any type of money for them
And that’s a Snapple Fact.
Considering the requirements that there have to be a certain amount of people with characteristic X or Y in each production, it is no wonder that they won't and can't stick to the source material. It would also need resolve by the show runners to stand up against these requirements, but they don't have the backbone or the willingness to do so.
In the end, if Amazon would remake the German movie "Der Untergang" (you know, the Hitler meme one), any of the people there could appear gender and race swapped, probably with a young, black (possibly even LGBTQ+whatever) woman arguing against Hitler and shooting him in the end.
It's less than 1%. It is probably less than 0.01%. Those activist are very loud, but there are not that many of them. Rest of the moron crowd are just blind followers.
They did a great job with the boys and the expanse and an ok job with wheel of time.
Years from now, when we are all dust, some overworked Amazon-slave mother is going to pop her Bezo-pre-approved movies against her water credits to appease her crying child. They will get this, and the header will be "Based on the Beloved Works of J.R.R. Tolkien", and when that slave child grows up, and is asked whether he knows the work of Tolkien, he/she/it will say "yes", and won't be wrong.
They are elves... there shouldn't be a whole lot of aging. The two elves in question should look how they did in the lord of the rings for thousands of years. Once they reach a certain age they stop growing or changing
They don't stop entirely but the change is unfathomably slow. For example, Cirdan the Shipwright was so old that he had a long beard even though most (or any, I can't remember clearly) other old elves we know about couldn't grow one at all yet.
Simply incorrect. Do more research. You can do it.
@@satur9dreamer No. You can't just do what you did. Find the passages in the book, quote/paste them, then use that to refute Chase's point.
"Whereas Melkor spent his spirit in envy and hate, until at last he could make nothing save in mockery of the thought of others, and all their works he destroyed if he could." -- The Silmarillion.
Now that Christopher Tolkien is not around, Melkor has arisen.
If the people who made this tried to put up an adaptation of the Bible, you’d have a female Jesus smiting people with divine power and setting up a matriarchy that would last for a thousand years.
Jesus would be a black trans Muslim
All the Jews wouls be members if the Black Israelites as well, except the bad ones, they'd be white.
And she would be a Mary Sue. Perfect in every possible way with ZERO flaws.
@@connoisseurofcookies2047 So Judas would be the only white disciple.
Or, Jesus would be the villain, and Judas would be the male feminist hero who stands up to Him. I don't understand what's happening in these people's minds.
Harambe was shot and we got thrust into this bizarre timeline, that's how.
This... this is where the timelines diverged. We have fallen off the golden path
Sad truth is what we're going through now has been building up since the 50's-60's, long before the great Harambe and his time.
I've read the Silmarillion, I don't remember where Galadriel was described as a warrior, and I don't think it makes sense that she would be anyway. Galadriel was one of the most powerful characters in the books without having ever picked up a sword. That's what makes her unique in the story. I also can't wrap my head around what they're trying to do with Elrond. Elron has been around since the first age. He was Gil Galad's Herald, a master warrior and healer, and descended from royalty on both sides of his family, and he had founded and was ruling over Rivendell by this time. Who the fuck is this kid they have pretending to be Elrond?
Looks like the guy Elrond would go to when needing a haircut..oh wait.
Young Eddard Stark.
Not to mention the great grandson of Luthien
@@TheDeluche Well said. And his adopted father was the last surviving son of Feanor himself.
@@VitchAndVorty Which means he'll probably end up killing Isildur and passing off some commoner's son as Isildur's son, making Arragorn's claim to the throne a lie.
Galadriel is one of my favorite characters and it hurts me how they don't get her. She's ambitious, for sure, but she also learned a lot from Melian AND is one of the, if not the, oldest elves left. So I don't really see her being all angry in the way they described.
She's the virgin Mary
@@jimjimmy680 lol, that too.
I love hearing Just Some Guy weigh in on all things Tolkien.
He’s DM
They probably should've hired him instead of people who are known for writing bad Star Trek.
@@johndurham6172 But they DID hire lore masters with PhD's and fired them when they wouldn't budge on the lore or critiqued their changes.
They would have fired JSG the day he walked on set and started calling the Wokekandans out.
He smart
The problem is that we know Tolkien said that there were only X many successful, requited human/elf romances, and we know what they were. So either this Arondir thing is unrequited, or they're just adding on stupid romances of their own making.
I have seen that discussed on Reddit. Basically, there is an argument to be made that lesser-known romances that didn't make it into history books could have existed. Even if not, that's a relatively minor offense compared to everything else. Until they add a love triangle with a hobbit, that is.
@@alexr6092 Of course reddit is doing mental gymnastics to justify it.
In defense of Amazon, Tolkien said there were 3 unions of the Edain & the Eldar.
But there are elves who are not part of the Eldar and there are men who are not part of the Edain.
But in any case I also feel it's forced in, and I dont like it.
Thats exactly what it is.
The real problem is, there's a huge appetite for more Tolkien stories but no more detailed Tolkien stories TO adapt - not even the Silmarillion, because it's neither a detailed novel, nor wholly Tolkien's creation in either its writing or editing. No one can expect an "adaptation" of something as broad as the Appendices, much less for anything like five seasons, WITHOUT the story being diluted down into anything more than fan fiction.
When it comes to "fleshing out" Tolkien's material to fit formats larger than the material would really allow (The Hobbit), even Peter Jackson was adding characters, relationships, scenes and generally making things up. Many people gave him a pass on it, yet it was true just the same and the result was that the second trilogy was nowhere nearly as good, or "true", as the first. No matter how much anyone "loves and respects the lore", it doesn't give them the ability to make it out of whole cloth and then call it "Tolkien", regardless of fan opinion.
Amazon should have just gotten the rights to the d&d books and made a fantasy show about that. Boom, no complaints and you can have a diverse cast
But they would have no chance of shitting all over the work of one of those WHITE MEN.
I think my head is gonna fall off if I shake it any more.
Tolkien was not just an author, he was a professor of medieval literature, amongst other things, a linguist (he wrote the damn Oxford English Dictionary and designed languages from scratch and they *work* !) and a deep scholar of myths and lore. Every sentence of his works is imbued with this rich knowledge. The makers of this series treat him like just any other superficial fantasy author, not realizing the freaking 4d puzzle he created and how it all crumbles down if you don't know which details can be changed and which simply can't.
This is not just us fans screeching at "don't change a yota of source material", it's us screeching "try and *understand* what you are looking at before you botch it up!"
After the Abomination called Wheel of Time, I have no faith in Amazon Studios
They're intentionally destroying these properties. We're in a culture war.
The kind of show someone can pirate and still feel robbed after watching it.
Everything's being ruined in the name of political correctness. I foolishly had a little hope for the wheel of time and the rings of power.
I really should have known better.
@@darth3261 🤣🤣🤣
I hate that feeling. You end up wanting your time back, like in that Justin Timberlake film.
Check out the trailers in different languages.
The latin American trailer is ratioted, Spain's trailer is ratioted, as well as the Italian one, and all of them have the same Tolkien quote in the comments.
The main one is ratio’d too. And UK. Lawd of the rangs is not starting out strong
I think the U.S. one was ratioed as well
the usa one is ratio'd as well despite there obvious upticking
Looks like the "diverse and global fanbase" they were looking for is not what they imagined...
What is 'ratioted'?
"The words of Tolkien were given over to lesser men." Nailed it to the wall, you did.
Tolkien is sacrosanct, why in the heck would you ever try to mess with it? These stories are older than the people working on the series, something doesn't survive that long if it's not written with the greatest of care or treated with the utmost respect.
Why did the Vandals burn Rome to the ground?
Why? Because they are literally evil. For you it may be sacred, for them it is not. It is a tool for the suits to accoplish their goals.
Why indeed? The answer I think, is that Tolkien needs to be claimed. Him and his works represent an incredibly reactionary viewpoint, not to mention a highly nostalgic traditionalism, which a progressive world view cannot allow to stand. This is why he must be claimed and co opted into the ideology. This is how progressivism operates, part of its anti fragility.
Anti what?
@@user-cs4su3ng9l anti fragility. The ability to survive things that would likely bring down other ideological frameworks. Progressivism has the ability to absorb things that would damage other systems.
Even in the films Galadiel was depicted as kind and helpful, not spiteful, or angry. She was calm, cool and collected.
They believe that she was angry and brass before growing into the kind and helpful Lady we know and love. Unfortunately, that's not the case either. Her flaw in the Second Age should be pride and ambition, with a bit of stubbornness mixed in. She wanted to created an elven kingdom in Middle-earth as fair and great as the Undying Land, an attempt well-meaning but doomed to failure. Her arc, if there was one, should be to learn to accept that and humble herself, culminating in her rejecting the One Ring, her only hope of accomplishing her goal.
@@BeresVonSaladir
They don't understand her character. They described her in that article as a generic female warrior.
"Two things, my lord, must ye know about the wise woman: firstly, she is a woman! Secondly, she is..."
"Wise?"
"Oh, so you know her then?"
except when she saw the ring around Frodo's neck. that tested her and we got to glimpse her wrathful side
@@christiansather8438 All who came into contact with the ring were tempted.
Got into a major argument with a woke friend over this series. He had no counter arguments, became flustered, and has stopped talking to me. I will not back down on this. I will not watch it, unless I start a channel.
I'm sorry for your loss, but I commend you for standing your ground. It's what we all must be doing in these dark times.
That's the problem the people supporting this show are acting out of emotions and they for the most part have no fucking clue about the stories.
cut this so called friend out of your life.
My husband mocked me for objecting to this Amazon abortion. He said that it wasn’t a big deal, just a new way of revisiting outdated material from a more modern viewpoint and would contribute to the lore. Hm.
@@gamermasterL He wasn't always like this. I was the best man at his wedding ages ago. His wife turned out to be a 3rd wave, intersectional feminist ( aside from polite non-conversations, she will not talk with me about any serious subject).. Its hard to cut him off, but his thoughts are so malformed, so....broken. It's tough.
That ending was beautiful. I felt every reference. Well done
I´m Latin, and i grow up with the books and the movies of Peter Jackson, and i dont need representation of latin people in the work of Tolkien and his world, based in part, on Norse Mythology, and i dont feel offended of lack of diversity, on the contrary, i love to sumerge in a world of fantasy different than the world around me, if i wish something refered to my race or whatever, i will search for somenthing related to, or right something new and original, the vision of the true author must be respected, always, and something so important like the Tolkien´s world, wich is unique and amazing, shoud be a prority.
Exactly! They do not get that representation was intended for those stories where blacks, latinos, women SHOULD have appeared because of the setting, but were deliberately kept out of focus because of racism and sexism of the authors. It is not about blackwashing or gender swapping traditional stories.
You and ComicTropes gotta be the GOATS of CZcams rn. Thanks for keeping it real.
Ye definitely
GOAT and rn are kind of contradictory…
@Song W Eretson A GOAT is a man who surpassed all who came before. A future GOAT can usurp his spot.
Yeah, I'm just going to rewatch the LOTR trilogy extended edition with my brother as we remember how our mom would take us to see the movies in the cinema on release day.
Listening to that last part was like music, pure, beautiful music. JSG, sometimes, you are an artist with your words.
To paraphrase Slim Pickens, he uses his words "purtier than a 20 dollar whore!"
8:53 "I know it gonna be damn near impossible to best Peter Jackson's films, but you didn't even TRY!" slowclap...
Amazon: "But Galadriel and Elrond are white and we cast white actors. How are they not essentially twins in your eyes?"
This is the one thing that keeps confusing me. Ya, they're not identical, but they are pretty close. They do look passable as their younger selves to me. Put them in the same outfits and give Elrond his real fucking hair and it'll be more than good enough.
@@xipheonj Wrong, stop the lies.
@@shayla106 Take off your hate goggles, not everything they did is 100% evil. I'm not lying, I think they look close enough and the only problem is hair/costume.
@@xipheonj Elrond is...ugh, but Galadriel could pass for a younger version of her...from the Time of the Trees. By the time the Rings are forged, she would have essentially stopped aging, visibly getting a year or two older only over the course of a millenium. Even then, if they had kept her actual personality and backstory then I could accept "hey, we couldn't digitally insert Cate Blanchett, we went with a different actress". Problem is, without access to so much of the lore surrounding these Ages they essentially created an Original Character and slapped Galadriel's name on her.
That was a hilariously sick burn at the end. "Given over to lesser men" indeed!
But what's ignored is that, once it's given over to anyone, it's not Tolkien anymore anyway, regardless of who the "fans" do or don't approve of. No one can get new material from a dead author.
Worse, it was given over to women.
@@haitaelpastor976 care to elaborate?
@@masterlight2 Check out who the project director of this horsebull is.
@@haitaelpastor976 this Wayne chi guy?
To corrupt Tolkien's source material IS the goal. An appeal for the Amazon producers to appreciate what they perceive Tolkien's toxic masculinity and lack of diversity is wasted effort. The more you cry out, the more they feel they are on the right track.
“Evil cannot create anything new, it can only spoil and destroy what good forces have invented or created” - J.R.R.Tolkien
They f***ed with the wrong fanbase! Tolkien fans don't play around!
u seen that video of 4 "Superfans" talking about the trailer?they all talk about inclusion and diversity!
@@bernhardtsen74 it's so cringe. Entertainment is out the window! Their top priority is identity politics.
@@thebugledaily6805 even Quentin Tarantino mentions it in a recent interview!poor DC comics!replacing Superman and Batman in the new Flash movie!
@Salt Meister go identity politics, your wallet will take some licks!
@Salt Meister he would be absolutely mortified; he was feisty in his convictions, as a devout Catholic of Latin Rite, after Vatican II, he would defiantly respond in Latin (and not in English like the rest of the congregation would)
Your closing statement was amazing! There was never much hope for Amazon’s rip-off, only a fool’s hope.
"You decided to use Tolkien's name to shell your fantasy story using aspects of the lore you don't even have the full version of." - best way to describe the problem with this entire show. If they had just said it was an AU story, taking place in this world, it would have been less offensive. But instead they're trying to make this seem as if it is what Tolkien would have written.. which it is not.
This video should be shown to all the writers and people connected to this show. Perfectly summarizes the issue, us fans have with this lord of the rings adaptation
When Jeff Bezos said give me the next GOT, I think he specified Season 8
Look how they massacred my boy. Tolkien was right, evil cannot create.
"...the words of Tolkien have been given over to lesser men." This is so true. And sad. But it is not the end. Like Húrin yelled with every swing of his black axe, while he fought against Gothmog's Troll-Guard at the end of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad: "Aure entuluva!" - Day shall come again! -
"The words of Tolkien were given to lesser men"
Beautifully put.
Just because you don't have the rights to the Silmarillion or other books, does not mean you should not read them, so you can create a 2nd age Galadriel that takes parts of the 1st age character and parts of the 3rd age character, and finds a good mix of who the 2nd aged character would have been. It's just an excuse they can use for not making a real version of the world, because they just wanted to make their own world anyway. One that does not reflect Tolkien's world nor style at all.
Ironically if they made their own world, I would like it, or if they took Tolkien's world and said Far Harad has black people, and the Easterlings are Asian's, so lets tell a story about them. There is a lot of culture from both groups that we know little about, and it could fill their diversity quota. They would rather have black dwarves and elves, to make the world more like modern day, but Tolkien said many times his books were to escape, to not have pointed modern themes. It is not the duty of the author to tell the reader what to see in the book, but give them the freedom to see what they want to in the story. But it feels like Amazon wants to tell there own story, to push an agenda, and their ideologies, that stands against everything Tolkien believed a fairy-story should be about.
Great comment
Great idea! There's just so much space in Tolkien's worlds for people to write original stuff based on his work - and he even welcomed that possibility!
Maybe once Amazon has got over themselves with this, we'll see soemthing better come out.
I wonder if it's worth people actually writing something original, not using Tolkien's characters at all (except maybe as legends and myths within their story) and submitting that to Amazon and suggesting they do something new? They might have 5 seasons in mind, but they'll only have shot one in case it does crash and burn.
Well there's Hobbits, and apparently wizards running around Middle Earth in the 2nd age, so they've outright completely ignored the lore in favor of "representation."
Dispassionate ambivalence is the ultimate insult to 'Art'.
Seeing how this tv show is the furthest thing from Tolkien world and the ascetic therein I find the best response is to not care because they surely don't. However, I do believe that this series was designed for the express purpose of getting people angry, and by giving it the time of day people will give it the validation it doesn't deserve.
Well said.
@@davidryder3374 thank you
Are you angry because the
Writing is shite, or because ethnic minority actors were used? Or maybe both?
I can see that the non-white characters are bothering some people and I find that funny.
It's the lack of a coherent / compelling story, that's disappointed me though. How do all of these studios continue to make the same mistakes?
It was a shock to find out, (via CZcams comments) that Wheel Of Time was based on actual books... 😳 It felt like some CZcams guys had got together and made it.
Your passion for Tolkien Lore is admirable and I appreciate you for it.
"The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. How did it come to this...?"
"Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made."
I'm starting to think that all these self proclaimed "Tolkein Scholars" are the new Google Normies.
Guy, Found you through AZ and Nerdrotic and I gotta tell you dude , you’re brilliant, you really are dude I’m working my way through all you’re videos and I’m loving them. Excellent commentary.
They can written the fall if the easterlings, the blue wizards, African tales, just stay within Tolkien's rules and people would have loved it.
But evil cannot create, it can only subvert and destroy.
Don't give them the benefit of the doubt! They have ruined too much! When in doubt, tune them out! I blame Spider-man!
Spider-Man was a hero, you just couldn't see it.
@@UnholyShite He's a dastardly menace!
Love hearing you talk about Lord of the Rings and other works of Tolkein. You're so knowledgeable and passionate about it.
Amazon really missed an opportunity on this one. The Third Age of Middle-Earth was over three thousand years long. The number of stories they could have covered are numerous. They could have done a story about Arnor and its fall. They could have done a story about Gondor and how it lost its king. Or a story about the Witch King of Angmar and how he was a bane to the Dunedain in MIddle-Earth. What about a story about Rohan and how Eorl led his people from the North and came to Gondor's aid and became its closest ally. Or how about the Dwarves and how they lost Khazad-dum to the Balrog, Durin's Bane. The problem is that all of these stories require straight white males to headline them. That is anathema to those who want diversity just for the sake of diversity. Truly a sad day whey a great opportunity is missed because of people with an agenda instead of a dedication to the source material at hand.
Man, I wish you worked for Amazon and could save this show. Your depth of knowledge and passion for the material seeps through your videos. You are EXACTLY the talent they need.
I guess Amazon never caught the memo of "don't mess with things you don't understand."
I already know this video will be spot on so here's a Like right off the bat.
I know we've heard it before, in regards to other projects, but my favorite things are the articles now coming out saying if you're hung up on lore then you were never a Tolkien fan to begin with. Now, even lore is a problem. What an interesting world some of this people must inhabit.
I love your use of quotes with slight alterations. I just found your channel an I am a huge fan already
I really didn’t wanna know how this abomination became real but, thanks for feeding my curiosity anyway
You know what I'm just going to say it.
I hope this fails.
I hope this fails on such a massive scale that no one even dreams of touching Tolkien's works for the next HUNDRED YEARS!
That wrap-up was some poetic stuff man. Well written and well said.
Tying the actual LoTR quotes into the ending summation at the end of the video was awesome !
You can tell it's bait and switch when they talk about how "true to the original" it is as opposed to something substantive. I've been hearing, "this new series will go back to the series roots as an optimistic exploration of the future and space" for twenty years with Star Trek bait and switch.
Laziness and greed
JSG channelling Tolkien there at the end, it actually touched me a bit. Some dude making CZcams videos can do it, but a bunch of "professionals" can't seem to make it happened. Also, I'm still massively bothered by the idiocy of making "young Elrond" and "young Galadriel,." They're immortal elves that were already ancient in the 2nd Age.
The Elf-human pairings were extremely rare. The human had to be a mighty hero to be worthy, to be noticed. So few men of middle earth were of that status.
Payne: "We've been given something...a stewardship."
The rest of us: "Oh, so you admit to being no different from Denethor!"
Denethor was a badass who held his own against Sauron himself. The blood of Numenor ran true in his vein, he was valiant and noble and powerful and he was well versed in the lore of Gondor. He was an excellent ruler who did everything he could to prepare his people for the fight against an enemy too strong to defeat. Jackson also destroyed characters in his films.
Brilliant!
@@BarryOkanagan Denethor had one important job, more important than all others. Keep Gondor safe until the rightful king arrived. Instead, he preserved Gondor only for himself and his sons. Priorities, and motivations, matter. This is why Illuvatar blessed Aule's work, but rejected Melkor's. Denethor betrayed his duty, and betrayed his nobility.
@@BarryOkanagan I disagree. Denethor might have been steadfast, but he wasn't noble at all. What he wanted most was to keep Gondor as it was in the days of his youth, where he and his lineage would have been the sole rulers. He knew of Aragorn before his demise, and he outright declared that he rejected Aragorn's claim to the throne. Denethor may have had love for his people, but he had more desire for the throne.
@@GeneSysFNLT I don't see it that way. He saw Aragorn as the descendant of a line of kings that had failed. He simply didn't recognize his claim as an heir of Anarion. At this point the Steward had ruled Gondor for a thousand year which is a very long time, but they would never earn the title of king no matter how good of a job they did. Denethor was a masterful ruler and he cared for Gondor more than anything, he didn't want a ranger from the north to take his place and ruin everything. He simply didn't know Aragorn well enough. As he had been jealous of Thorongil in his youth, it might have clouded his judgement, but it didn't take away from his nobility. The guy sacrificed his sanity and his family in the hope of protecting Gondor against evil.
Nailed it again, JSG. Thanks, keep up the good work!
Dang, you crushed that. One of your best videos
Dude! Just discovered your channel! I salute you, bro!
Thank you so much for posting this video. Please don’t stop fighting. We must defend Tolkien. We must not be silenced. Keep the conversation going. I believe we can win!
YOU SHALL NOT PASS as Lord of the Rings.
You deserve more subs, your videos are greatly informative and helpful. I’m Glad to be subscribed.
"The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them; and if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures."
"Lord of the Cringe: The Rings of Leftists"
don't associate leftists with this crap
_One think to rule them all,_
_One think to mind them,_
_One think to group them all,_
_And in the safe space bind them._
--Benjamin Boyce
This is gonna be the most expensive fan service ever…with free Amazon shipping that you already pay for.
Tbh learning about how much care Tolkien had put into his world building and stories has inspired me.
"It shouldn't clash with the cinematic world fans have come to know and love." But it does. Also, it clashes with Tolkien's actual world fans have come to know and love. And, if fans already love these worlds, then they already belong to everyone, so where does your justification of contradicting either, especially the source material, go? It is incoherent.
if amazons wanted to include diversity with good story telling they couldve made a story about aragorns journey across rohan, gondor, harad and rhun. His journey is glossed over but we could see interactions of him with various human races of middle earth
I'm really glad to see fans banding together to help push back against such a disrespect of Tolkien's work.
Notice how they never really mentioned anything about "re-imagining" LotR? It's because the Public already knows what "re-imagining" means, and mentioning it would have alerted the Public to this dumpster fire much sooner!
I have been waiting for you to do this one.
I'm not a huge fan of LotR but I did enjoy it. I just wanted to say though while I'm not upset over not getting something I do empathize with the fans. I'm so tired of them doing this. It's been several years and I'm still furious what those Marxists did with star wars, particularly Like. They are burning through all of historical icons of culture. I don't think they really care either. They all think they are smarter than the audience and we just don't get their genius. Sorry LotR fans I really am. I'm especially sorry knowing this isn't the last time it's going to happen.
Just curious. What if we just take the events that already happened, say that those things already happened, and just write about a world 100 or so years *AFTER* the events? We can keep it all in Tolkien's world, but lets tell our own stories about how people have been effected further down the line...
At least that way we aren't stepping on Tolkien's toes and trying to rewrite something that doesn't need to be rewritten..
A draft already exists…
@@Enforcer2811 Heck, I'd settle for a fan-fiction at this point..
Tolkien tried that and couldn’t make it work
@@ainternet239 It may be that Tolkien isn't the person to do it then. Maybe Tolkien told the story he needed to tell and made the world he needed to make. Its probably a job for new writers to work with what was established and make something from that...
It still wouldn't be Tolkien - for me, this is the paradox of all the fan "outrage": they complain how fan fiction that they don't approve of "dishonors Tolkien's legacy", yet they would happily watch fan fiction that they DO approve of - which is equally not Tolkien - just because they want more material to watch. Play it anyway you like, no one can get more stories from a dead author.
The thumbnail, haha, I can't even with that dead look in her eyes while hanging from the side of a freaking mountain by a dagger. To whoever filmed that scene, sure, that's the face of someone hanging for their life and using every single fiber of strength in their bodies to survive, you nailed it.
Your (our) best explanation of what they fully seem to grasp or comprehend. Bravo!
The Second Age material in the Appendices is FOUR pages in the hardback. Just four. Not much to work with. Funny, really, there's amazing amounts of stuff and great stories in the appendices for the THIRD Age (especially if you include a little from the end of the Second to give some context) - the triumph of Ar-Pharazon over Sauron, the persecution of the faithful, Sauron's suborning of Ar-Pharazon, the great fleet, the destruction of Numenor, the arrival of Elendil and his sons in Middle Earth, the kin-strife, the Wainriders, the wars with Umbar, the Witch-King of Angmar, the decline of the royal lines of Gondor and Arnor, the betrayal of Earnur, the burning of Osgiliath, the balcloth, the coming of the Rohirrim and Eorl the Young. But no, they chose a period so short of information - unless you have the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales etc. - you can't make a proper story without making it all up. Why? Regarding Amazon's treatment of Tolkien's work, it might be worthwhile to read Kipling's poem "If". I think it says it all "If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken -Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools . . ." Tolkien's work will be known and loved long after this travesty is forgotten.
Well part of the rules they're SUPPOSED to be following says they can't touch the third or first age.
@@lukeroberson2115 Ah, didn't know that.
@@stevenlowe3026 They're also supposed to not make stuff up, and stay within the canon, which is obviously not being followed at all.
@@lukeroberson2115 Exactly. Scenes to flesh out a story are one thing, but making stuff up that has nothing to do with the story? Sorry, can't go wit it. And I'm one f the ones who was upset with *Jackson's* take on LOTR when it came out. How much worse is this . . .
Amazon Lord of the rings is going to be the prime example of the get woke go broke.
Doubtful. Normie subscriptions will carry this garbage through; one of the perks of streaming service for scummy companies.
@@GigglingStoners they would have to be among the most shallow reefs of normies, because who knows Tolkien's legacy acknowledges the depth it bears.
Your commentary is so important brother. Thank you
"Full of piss and vinegar".....Two things I never want to associate with Galadriel.