+LeJu2a Actually a 140cm or 145cm @ 7mm might have been a better fit, but I like the 150 as it has a little more mass and thus better velocities at longer ranges. With a 140cm @7mm shaft I would not have been able to pass penetration test at 6 meters.
Hey! First of all, congratulations for all the videos! Your tests are really helpfull. I was wondering if you can give me a few tips considering my new gun. I recently bought a Salvimar Sapiens 85 Carbon Gun. Originally it comes with two 14mm standard rubber bands and a 6.5mm x 120cm Salvimar Lazer shaft. The shot is good and accurate, but at long distance it lacks power. Specially below 15/16 meter depths. So i'm considering changing to the 2 x 14.5mm Sigalsub Extreme bands. What do you think? will it work good on an 85? or perhaps the 380% 2x16mm salvimar green bands? Also, will the shaft be fine for this shot? Not too light I mean... Or should I change it too to a 7mm? If you have any other better options please let me now ;) Thank you very much, and keep it up with the good videos! Regards, Vasco, from Portugal
+Rui Vasco With an 6.5mm shaft @ 120cm , you don't have a lot of mass so adding more band power will not help at all. You need to go to a heavier shaft like 6.75mm or even 7mm if you want more power. I am not sure what is the band stretch of the gun you have, but 85cm is really not so much. I used an 85cm Beuchat for a long time and I used to power it up with a 6.75mm @ 120cm shaft using a single 19mm band. Today I feel guns at 85cm or less band stretch are better off with a roller kit. This extends your band stretch by quite a bit and will give you more power. If you want a lot more power, maybe you should move up to a 100 or 105cm gun. Check out the video of the Sporasub 105 test ... now that gun had serious power in a very small frame. As for bands, I think 14mm Primeline small ID bands are best for shafts up to 7.5mm @ 150cm ... for larger shafts you can start going to 14.5mm. The Sigalsub Extreme bands are almost impossible to pull back at 380% ... maybe 345% to 350% is doable. Primeline you can go to 360% quite easily and even 380% is not so bad.
+majdq8 Thank you so much for your help! Yes, I'm aware that the bigger the gun the bigger the power, but the thing is that the portuguese coast is pretty harsh and turbulent, with strong currents and big waves, so we tend to have smaller guns to maintain stability, shot accuracy and overall maneuverability. Also, the water visibility is usually around 5 to 7 meters on average days so a big gun is tougher to handle. I already have modified a salvimar V-pro 95 to the roisub roller system, so I intended to maintain this gun with the regular system, and also because it's really well balanced and I'm afraid to mess that up with a roller head. (I don't know if you got the chance to try one but if not, you really should! It's completly neutral underwater when fully loaded with the shaft, similar to wood guns). So I think that my best option will be maybe getting a 6,75/ 7mm shaft with a stronger band like you said, to get a shot that sustains all the power. Again,thank you for all the help!
Thank you very much for your detailed answer :) I will try to convince Simone to make a 120 version of the gun as I want to use it for big reef fish... What wishbone insertions do you use? The sear problem is only esthetically? Does 360% means for you (loading length)/3.6 x 2 or do you take the wishbone into account as well? Thanks
+Jario Luigi Martens No the sear problem is not aesthetically ... it is serious and cripples accuracy. The gun changes from shooting 3 shots from 5 meter from tip of shaft into 2 cm to a gun that groups 15cm or more. it makes accurate shooting impossible as you have no idea where the trigger will break or how much pressure is needed to let the shot off. For % stretch I only calculate the distance from band hole to shark fin then x 2 then divide by 3.6 I don't take into account the wishbone or any other thing. In the end it is just a percentage and you can go over or under depending on the shore hardness of the rubber or diameter of the rubber.
+majdq8 Hi! As I know Carbontek from Spain make these speargun for Sigal. They have the same speargun but with different lenghts (90cm,100cm and 115cm). It's Carbontek CT Mantis and as I know they dont have problem with the mechanism,it's not from Sigal.
Great test. How heavy is this gun-although it's cf, doesn't look like a lot of recoil. I'm looking for a gun in this range. Have you tried c4, and what is your overall opinon on them? Between bleutec lycan, raptor, c4 and sigal, wich one would you recommend? Thanks
Hi Maj, I got the new sigal sub nemesis, 116 carbon and it is a really nice gun, just wondering, is this Sigal sub you got in this video, worth the money? what would it deliver better than a normal tube gun?
Do you think i could use the 2x 14mm extreme with the marlin evil open 100 ? (Alu railgun with 6.5mm shaft). If not what bands would you recommend? Thanks :D
Hello Majed.. you're my reference when it comes to spearguns .. im using pathos roller with your setup for 2 years and now thinking of upgrading to bluetec raptor or sigal team 110 based on your testing which you think is a better gun or do u have any suggestion of even better carbon gun !!
Both are very good guns but I would prefer the Raptor due to its roller trigger. If you change out the Sigalsub trigger then maybe the Sigal is a better choice.
Hi majdq8:-) Congratulations for the testing, maybe one of the best I have seen online... I am actually sponsored by Sigalsub but not using our guns so far (weird haha). Anyway what is your opinion when you compare the Sigalsub 110 to your Denton 120 (is now called 110 ). Is the band stretch on the Sigalsub 10cm shorter than on Denton120? I am looking at performance between 5 and 6 m... You have not tested the Sigalsub with a thicker shaft? (do you think the mass is too small of the gun in order to handle thicker shafts?). The new Denton uses shorter shafts that are thicker (do you think this approach would be good for this gun as well). Thanks in advance for the answer:-)
+Jario Luigi Martens The Denton is about 10 cm more band stretch so is more powerful. The only problem I didn't like with the Sigalsub is that the sears got scratched after about 50 shots and I had to polish them again. This could be solved with hardened SS sears. The Denton avoids the problem as it uses a plastic trigger sear so no scratching problem when that goes over the SS shaft sear. Both designs are excellent with high handle design and reverse triggers and both super accurate. The Sigal is probably more maneuverable as it is thinner and carbon fiber. Shafts thickness is no problem so long you use 17-4 ph hardened shafts ... even 150cm @ 6.75mm shafts can be pushed hard without whipping. Going to higher diameter shafts gives you more penetration power, but I wouldn't recommend anything over 7mm or 7.2mm with the gun tested here.
Hi majdq8 ! Alwais like your clips and admire your effort to make them. Thank you for that ! Wondering can you put another camera on tripod next to you , just to see another perspectiv of the action without the recoil ? Think will be very helpful for all of as . And cud you rank specialy the recoil of every gun ? That will be the most valuable advise to choose new gun . ;)
I have done some videos with another camera on the side in slow motion ... it just takes forever to have to deal with and edit all the video footage. As for recoil, it is not an issue at all if you shape the handle properly. Take a look at the videos I made regarding shaping the handle. Even very powerful guns I can shoot while holding the gun only with my thumb.
Thank you ! Understand that is mess with all cameras and editing,but the result is different. ;) The recoil in some guns in the test is obvious . Specially when the gun doesn't have enough mass like this Sigalsub 110 About the handle...there is a few "out there" on the market with proper one on the gun. I've been from the first since 1998 when notice and make right gun handle !
Great test as always, that gun not only looks good. I spearfish in europe and the bands and shaft are not easily available. Can you give me a list of european alternatives? Thanks for your vids, total eye openers✌
I think the Sigalsub and Hunt and Devotosub shafts are also very good. Also Trygons makes expensive but very good shafts. Important is that the flopper is recessed ... and if not, it should have a cone. You don't want the front of your shaft to vector your shaft all over the place.
Sigalsub shafts are readily available around this part of the world so great. Just out of curiosity now that youve mentioned recessed floppers and cones. Have you noticed if one or the other is more accurate? Which of the two( recessed or cone) shafts do you prefer? Thanks again
Hi maj, can i ask you please about how i can calculate a rubbers to my new speargun sigalsub 120cm I need to make 2 rubbers 18mm I have a shaft 6,5 mm , 150cm Thanks
Take the distance from the shark fin to the band hole and multiply by 2 and then divide by 3.6 for 360%. For 6mm to 7mm I recommend 14mm small ID bands and you can push the band stretch all the way to 380% depending on what you feel comfortable with. Remember that bands tend to stretch out after about 20 shots, so if they seem a little tight and hard to load, be a little patient and they should become good.
I used an ermessub reverse trigger and it worked extremely well. I did have to use epoxy putty to adjust for the new trigger and then had to CF it. If I were to do it today I would just send the original sigalsub sears for hardening.
Haven't tried the Bleutec bastard carbon. I have tried the Raptor and it is very good. Both guns have problems with triggers but I think Bleutec has a new "fixed" trigger now. The Sigalsub 110 is an extremely accurate and powerful gun ... but the trigger will scratch. Scratching or "galling" of trigger sears is a problem with most reverse triggers on the market.
+apnaus For length of bands I use % stretch. So for 360% stretch I would take the distance from the band hole to the shark fin (can be different for each band) then I multiply by 2 and then divide by 3.6 For the 120 for example ... depending on your shaft if would be say 125 x 2 = 250 and then divide that by 3.6 which would be around 69 cm. That would be your cut length. As for wishbone I use around a 5cm to 7cm wishbone.
Never fired a 105 cm shaft in my life and never tried 13mm bands. Actually for such small guns thicker bands are probably better and maybe even roller is necessary for good velocities as there simply is no room for band stretch to get things going.
Ah ok .. well might be worth a shot but I don't think it will do better than the 14mm. The thing is that 14mm bands from Primeline can vary from 13.6mm to 15.1mm. For 13mm it might vary from 12.5mm to 14mm. Splitting hairs really and best is just stick to 14mm small ID.
You can buy it from spearitco.com or benthicoceansports.com or spearamerica.com ... probably quite a few other places selling it. Ask for small ID 14mm or 14.5mm bands.
so much knowladge in your videos, i really hope you'll make a comeback some day :)
Hi Maj! Thank you for this test, i was waitting for it!I use this speargun and tested differents setup, i think yours is the best!
+LeJu2a Actually a 140cm or 145cm @ 7mm might have been a better fit, but I like the 150 as it has a little more mass and thus better velocities at longer ranges. With a 140cm @7mm shaft I would not have been able to pass penetration test at 6 meters.
Yes, i think too. I have a 7.5mm sigal shaft @140cm, i'll test it with the 14,5mm extrem bands
Thanks as always and your fave spear does it again;-)!
+AntiVaganza Yes is by far the best floppered shaft @7mm and below. Unfortunately it doesn't come with larger diameters.
Hey! First of all, congratulations for all the videos! Your tests are really helpfull.
I was wondering if you can give me a few tips considering my new gun.
I recently bought a Salvimar Sapiens 85 Carbon Gun. Originally it comes with two 14mm standard rubber bands and a 6.5mm x 120cm Salvimar Lazer shaft. The shot is good and accurate, but at long distance it lacks power. Specially below 15/16 meter depths.
So i'm considering changing to the 2 x 14.5mm Sigalsub Extreme bands. What do you think? will it work good on an 85? or perhaps the 380% 2x16mm salvimar green bands? Also, will the shaft be fine for this shot? Not too light I mean... Or should I change it too to a 7mm? If you have any other better options please let me now ;)
Thank you very much, and keep it up with the good videos!
Regards, Vasco, from Portugal
+Rui Vasco With an 6.5mm shaft @ 120cm , you don't have a lot of mass so adding more band power will not help at all. You need to go to a heavier shaft like 6.75mm or even 7mm if you want more power. I am not sure what is the band stretch of the gun you have, but 85cm is really not so much. I used an 85cm Beuchat for a long time and I used to power it up with a 6.75mm @ 120cm shaft using a single 19mm band. Today I feel guns at 85cm or less band stretch are better off with a roller kit. This extends your band stretch by quite a bit and will give you more power. If you want a lot more power, maybe you should move up to a 100 or 105cm gun. Check out the video of the Sporasub 105 test ... now that gun had serious power in a very small frame. As for bands, I think 14mm Primeline small ID bands are best for shafts up to 7.5mm @ 150cm ... for larger shafts you can start going to 14.5mm. The Sigalsub Extreme bands are almost impossible to pull back at 380% ... maybe 345% to 350% is doable. Primeline you can go to 360% quite easily and even 380% is not so bad.
+majdq8 Thank you so much for your help! Yes, I'm aware that the bigger the gun the bigger the power, but the thing is that the portuguese coast is pretty harsh and turbulent, with strong currents and big waves, so we tend to have smaller guns to maintain stability, shot accuracy and overall maneuverability. Also, the water visibility is usually around 5 to 7 meters on average days so a big gun is tougher to handle. I already have modified a salvimar V-pro 95 to the roisub roller system, so I intended to maintain this gun with the regular system, and also because it's really well balanced and I'm afraid to mess that up with a roller head. (I don't know if you got the chance to try one but if not, you really should! It's completly neutral underwater when fully loaded with the shaft, similar to wood guns). So I think that my best option will be maybe getting a 6,75/ 7mm shaft with a stronger band like you said, to get a shot that sustains all the power.
Again,thank you for all the help!
as usual u r the best keep going bro
Thank you very much for your detailed answer :)
I will try to convince Simone to make a 120 version of the gun as I want to use it for big reef fish...
What wishbone insertions do you use? The sear problem is only esthetically? Does 360% means for you (loading length)/3.6 x 2 or do you take the wishbone into account as well?
Thanks
+Jario Luigi Martens No the sear problem is not aesthetically ... it is serious and cripples accuracy. The gun changes from shooting 3 shots from 5 meter from tip of shaft into 2 cm to a gun that groups 15cm or more. it makes accurate shooting impossible as you have no idea where the trigger will break or how much pressure is needed to let the shot off. For % stretch I only calculate the distance from band hole to shark fin then x 2 then divide by 3.6 I don't take into account the wishbone or any other thing. In the end it is just a percentage and you can go over or under depending on the shore hardness of the rubber or diameter of the rubber.
+majdq8 Hi! As I know Carbontek from Spain make these speargun for Sigal. They have the same speargun but with different lenghts (90cm,100cm and 115cm). It's Carbontek CT Mantis and as I know they dont have problem with the mechanism,it's not from Sigal.
Perfect Gun
Great test. How heavy is this gun-although it's cf, doesn't look like a lot of recoil. I'm looking for a gun in this range. Have you tried c4, and what is your overall opinon on them? Between bleutec lycan, raptor, c4 and sigal, wich one would you recommend? Thanks
i cannot stop watching your videos bro :) which shaft do you recommend sigal or pathos?
Hi Maj, I got the new sigal sub nemesis, 116 carbon and it is a really nice gun, just wondering, is this Sigal sub you got in this video, worth the money? what would it deliver better than a normal tube gun?
nice test :)
Expert shooting, not everybody can shoot like that no matter what gun.
Some need machine gun to hit a fish.
In big depth works the same the 14.5? I think you might need 16 bands
Nice video and test !! ;-)
which trigger would be good for sigalsub 110....tnx
Do you think i could use the 2x 14mm extreme with the marlin evil open 100 ? (Alu railgun with 6.5mm shaft). If not what bands would you recommend? Thanks :D
What band combo you can offer for a 65cm pathos sniper speargun?
Hello Majed.. you're my reference when it comes to spearguns .. im using pathos roller with your setup for 2 years and now thinking of upgrading to bluetec raptor or sigal team 110 based on your testing which you think is a better gun or do u have any suggestion of even better carbon gun !!
Both are very good guns but I would prefer the Raptor due to its roller trigger. If you change out the Sigalsub trigger then maybe the Sigal is a better choice.
Hi majdq8:-)
Congratulations for the testing, maybe one of the best I have seen online...
I am actually sponsored by Sigalsub but not using our guns so far (weird haha). Anyway what is your opinion when you compare the Sigalsub 110 to your Denton 120 (is now called 110 ). Is the band stretch on the Sigalsub 10cm shorter than on Denton120?
I am looking at performance between 5 and 6 m... You have not tested the Sigalsub with a thicker shaft? (do you think the mass is too small of the gun in order to handle thicker shafts?). The new Denton uses shorter shafts that are thicker (do you think this approach would be good for this gun as well).
Thanks in advance for the answer:-)
+Jario Luigi Martens The Denton is about 10 cm more band stretch so is more powerful. The only problem I didn't like with the Sigalsub is that the sears got scratched after about 50 shots and I had to polish them again. This could be solved with hardened SS sears. The Denton avoids the problem as it uses a plastic trigger sear so no scratching problem when that goes over the SS shaft sear. Both designs are excellent with high handle design and reverse triggers and both super accurate. The Sigal is probably more maneuverable as it is thinner and carbon fiber. Shafts thickness is no problem so long you use 17-4 ph hardened shafts ... even 150cm @ 6.75mm shafts can be pushed hard without whipping. Going to higher diameter shafts gives you more penetration power, but I wouldn't recommend anything over 7mm or 7.2mm with the gun tested here.
Do you remember how much the overhang in that gun ?/
Hi majdq8 ! Alwais like your clips and admire your effort to make them. Thank you for that ! Wondering can you put another camera on tripod next to you , just to see another perspectiv of the action without the recoil ? Think will be very helpful for all of as . And cud you rank specialy the recoil of every gun ? That will be the most valuable advise to choose new gun . ;)
I have done some videos with another camera on the side in slow motion ... it just takes forever to have to deal with and edit all the video footage. As for recoil, it is not an issue at all if you shape the handle properly. Take a look at the videos I made regarding shaping the handle. Even very powerful guns I can shoot while holding the gun only with my thumb.
Thank you ! Understand that is mess with all cameras and editing,but the result is different. ;)
The recoil in some guns in the test is obvious . Specially when the gun doesn't have enough mass like this Sigalsub 110
About the handle...there is a few "out there" on the market with proper one on the gun. I've been from the first since 1998 when notice and make right gun handle !
Great test as always, that gun not only looks good. I spearfish in europe and the bands and shaft are not easily available. Can you give me a list of european alternatives?
Thanks for your vids, total eye openers✌
I think the Sigalsub and Hunt and Devotosub shafts are also very good. Also Trygons makes expensive but very good shafts. Important is that the flopper is recessed ... and if not, it should have a cone. You don't want the front of your shaft to vector your shaft all over the place.
Sigalsub shafts are readily available around this part of the world so great. Just out of curiosity now that youve mentioned recessed floppers and cones. Have you noticed if one or the other is more accurate? Which of the two( recessed or cone) shafts do you prefer?
Thanks again
Where did the guns come from?
what is the weight of this speargun....I can't decide which speargun is better....sigalsub 110 or c4 urukay
Betwin this two the C4 is monodrom ! ;)
Hi maj, can i ask you please about how i can calculate a rubbers to my new speargun sigalsub 120cm
I need to make 2 rubbers 18mm
I have a shaft 6,5 mm , 150cm
Thanks
Take the distance from the shark fin to the band hole and multiply by 2 and then divide by 3.6 for 360%. For 6mm to 7mm I recommend 14mm small ID bands and you can push the band stretch all the way to 380% depending on what you feel comfortable with. Remember that bands tend to stretch out after about 20 shots, so if they seem a little tight and hard to load, be a little patient and they should become good.
majdq8 thank you so much. I try and i tell u what happend
ok, when you change the trigger mechanism with a non sigalsub mechanism, did every thing worked well?
I used an ermessub reverse trigger and it worked extremely well. I did have to use epoxy putty to adjust for the new trigger and then had to CF it. If I were to do it today I would just send the original sigalsub sears for hardening.
can you tell me which speargun is better sigalsub 110 or bleutec bastard carbon....
Haven't tried the Bleutec bastard carbon. I have tried the Raptor and it is very good. Both guns have problems with triggers but I think Bleutec has a new "fixed" trigger now. The Sigalsub 110 is an extremely accurate and powerful gun ... but the trigger will scratch. Scratching or "galling" of trigger sears is a problem with most reverse triggers on the market.
where can i get for sigalsub speargun upgraded trigger mechanism???
Unfortunately there is no upgraded trigger mechanism for the Sigalsub 110 gun. In my case I changed the trigger to a non Sigalsub trigger.
What is the length of the bands you used for the 110 ? Brilliant videos thank you
And wishbone length and type if possible ! Cheers
+apnaus For length of bands I use % stretch. So for 360% stretch I would take the distance from the band hole to the shark fin (can be different for each band) then I multiply by 2 and then divide by 3.6 For the 120 for example ... depending on your shaft if would be say 125 x 2 = 250 and then divide that by 3.6 which would be around 69 cm. That would be your cut length. As for wishbone I use around a 5cm to 7cm wishbone.
+majdq8 Did you try the Rob Allen blue slings ? Do you know the the stretch %
No I don't use the RA slings as the are large inside diameter. Much better results can be had with small ID bands.
+majdq8 where do you order your ID bands from ?
Nice maj!! is there a Seal test in the pipeline...?
+favernoogon Very soon!
+majdq8 Hi Maj do you have any thoughts on the Sigalsub 13mm extreme bands? I was thinking about trying them on my 105+7mm shaft
Never fired a 105 cm shaft in my life and never tried 13mm bands. Actually for such small guns thicker bands are probably better and maybe even roller is necessary for good velocities as there simply is no room for band stretch to get things going.
+majdq8 sorry meant 105cm gun with 7mm x 140cm shaft
Ah ok .. well might be worth a shot but I don't think it will do better than the 14mm. The thing is that 14mm bands from Primeline can vary from 13.6mm to 15.1mm. For 13mm it might vary from 12.5mm to 14mm. Splitting hairs really and best is just stick to 14mm small ID.
Have u been tried seac sub xfire 115 gun
+hamed s Unfortunately not. I think you can set it up similar to the gun here though.
I want to buy one, where can I find it ؟؟
how do i get that rubber??
You can buy it from spearitco.com or benthicoceansports.com or spearamerica.com ... probably quite a few other places selling it. Ask for small ID 14mm or 14.5mm bands.
Thanks you very much sir.I also appreciate the time you spent bench testing,you are doing alot of people a great service.