🎹 Vienna Symphonic Library Piano VST | Steinway Model D vs Bosendorfer 280 VC vs Yamaha CFX 🎹
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#SteinwayD #YamahaCFX #Bosendorfer
Hello and welcome to the Merriam Pianos CZcams channel for another video. In this video, we’ll be looking at the Vienna Symphonic Library Synchron (VSL) VST again as we compare renderings of the Steinway D 274, Bosendorfer VC280, and the Yamaha CFX.
These are high-end renderings designed for professional studio use, and really represent the cutting edge of what VST’s are capable of in 2021.
If this is your first time on the channel please like, subscribe, and hit that notification bell!
Background
We first dove into the VSL Synchron engine several months back when we did our extensive series on VST’s. There’s a very wide range of VST’s available that span numerous price points, each occupying its own unique space in the industry.
What struck us about the VSL Synchron engine is just how well they captured the feeling of being in front of a real 9-foot concert grand as a player.
These three specific VSL plugins we’re looking at today are actually all recorded in different ways, adapting to the specifics of each instrument. This makes our comparison not an exact ‘apples to apples’, but it’s understandable why VSL did it this way.
Now, given how well these plugins are rendered, it can be a challenge to keep our assessment focused on the plugin rather than the piano itself, but for the purposes of our review, we’re going to stay focused on the piano as much as possible.
Steinway D
The Steinway D plugin features a beautifully blended tone, with a uniform envelope to all of the notes across the entire range of the instrument.
It’s clearly been recorded with the right microphones and mic placement to really bring out the subtleties of the piano.
There’s a lot of editable effects and presets to mess around with to refine the sound to your own preference, and the option to change the mics as well.
We found the touch curve required some editing, bringing it down to about 80%, and this made the sound behave more accurately in our opinion.
Yamaha CFX
A different tone here is noticeable right away. The Steinway D produces an almost descending pyramid of harmonics with each note, while the Yamaha CFX has a much more prominent fundamental, with wider jumps to each harmonic.
As such, the CFX doesn’t require any adjusting of the velocity curve, but we like toning the reverb down and instead relying on the natural room reverb they’ve captured.
The CFX is a much brighter tone, as one would expect from a Yamaha, with a very prominent mid and upper range.
Like the Steinway D, the CFX is wonderfully recorded and highly versatile. Neither really stands out above the other, and which one you happen to select will come down to the specifics of a given project and your own personal preference.
Bosendorfer VC280
The Bosendorfer VC280 is more distinctly different in character from the other two. It was recorded in a much smaller room which is certainly a big reason why.
There’s a very prominent mid-range bloom to the tone here, with a ton of warmth. Higher volume dynamics in the mid-range doesn’t seem to open up as much as it would on an acoustic piano, and the treble feels a little bit glassy.
But again, the warmth is incredible.
We’d recommend activating the external reverb engine since the piano was recorded in such a small room, along with a few other adjustments to optimize the tone.
Summary
Steinway and Yamaha present pretty equally, but with obvious musical differences. The Steinway especially has been captured meticulously.
The Bosendorfer is a different vibe and may take a little bit more time to get used to.
All in all though, three fabulously rendered plugins through and through.
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2:04 Steinway. 2:23 Yamaha. 2:44 Bosendorfer.
10:02 Steinway.18:00 Yamaha 22:12 Steinway... 22:35 Steinway. 22:42 Yamaha. 24:19 Bosendorfer.
Steinway steinway bösendorfer steinway yamaha?
(I'm being silly; ignore me if you like.)
Bosendorfer,stainway,yamaha
Funny, I've never been that much into classical music. But hearing a Bösendorfer makes you immediately feel at home. I'm from Vienna. Obviously it's the tone I grew subconsciousely up with.
Awesome review and great playing. Thanks so much.
Loving these comparison reviews. So much great information coming through in both sound and technical knowledge. Thanks so much.
Wonderful descriptions of the sounds! 280VC my favorite!
Thank you sir for an awesome demonstration of these instruments. And I love hearing you play. Thank for blessing us with your gift.
Stu, you do a fantastic job on this channel 👍
Thank you, Stu! Love your detailed reviews and your VSL VST comparison is extremely helpful right now! Very happy owner of the Full 280VC but now I think the Steinway is next......
Thank you for all these VST videos. I recently got a decent digital piano and these have all been really helpful.
Bless you for reviewing high end piano VST's! I've been using several regularly for over a decade and the main drawback has always been that it's not practical to buy all of them just to try them out. Thanks for sharing your valuable impressions!
Great video. Very helpful. Thanks for doing this.
Stu, I am not interesting in VSL VSTs, but I love you reviews. You have a charisma.
My favorite digital piano channel 🔥
The beauty of these videos, is that, in spite of any audio losses from CZcams's lossy audio compression, every time you upgrade your listening tools, or your video monitor, you are rewarded with an even more extraordinary experience. On a better video and audio monitor setup, I began to so much more appreciate the excellence and the high bar that has been set by :
1. The video recording and editing
2. The audio recording of the presenter's voice
3. The excellent sampling of the pianos
4. The comprehensive tit bits of the master musician who is at the heart of this review.
Excellent, excellent, excellent - you just need to see this on a really good video display and outstanding speaker of headphone system to appreciate the quality and effort that has gone into this review, by all contributors. Thoroughly entertaining, informative and spellbindingly memorable. Thanks.
I hope one day I can set aside $5,000 and put together an excellent system - computer, a new weighed keyboard, and piano libraries + speakers, and then live happily ever after in virtual piano heaven. Some things are worth it. Considering that it would cost about a million dollars (if you factor in the cost of the room in which these were recorded and the microphones) for the real mackoy, to get a pretty good virtual representation of so many well recorded pianos, in a setup which I estimate will be about 5K, is a testament to so much hard work and refinement by so many people over many many years, from the origins of digital instrument sampling by pioneers like Fairlight, Synclavier, Kurzweil, Gigasampler/GigaStudio, and Synthogy(Ivory). It is somewhat sad that so many great companies have fizzled out of the game, as sacrifices for those who came after them, or could not continue to compete at the highest level. We need some sort of museum to appreciate the long and difficult history of those who did not continue to succeed.
Looking back and looking forward, I think this is a really important consideration for anyone investing in a piano sample library. Will this library continue to be of value, in the future, what kind of support can I expect from the vendor, when changes such as the migration to Apple Silicon(M1) occurs. It is a huge credit to Vienna Symphonic Library that their approach has led them to become dominant and remain dominant, and this carries over most clearly to their piano libraries which are the undisputable kings of the hill - no questions asked, at this point in time - with their own custom engine, which has more tweakability than any other sample playback engine - down to modifying eq and dynamics at the per note level - insane... who asked for that?
So beyond the sound quality, considering investment value, my money is on VSL instruments, for their expected long term value, in comparison to anything anyone else is doing. It can only get better, as time goes on. With the availability of high speed SSD reads with Nvme-PCIe version 3,4 and soon 5, I can imagine VSL being able to do anything that the heart and mind can imagine. Higher sample rate versions, higher bit rate versions - 32 bit floating point samples - etc etc, to just raise the absolute limits on their dominance.
What a day to be alive and keep the dream of musical pleasure - listening, performing and enjoying - alive. Especially in the midst of so much gloom with the current pandemic, it is a breath of fresh air to remember that life is not all bad, there is hope, a lot of hope, and a lot worth looking forward to, and living for. My thanks to all the master craftsmen, and God, the master creator, who have in one way or another led to this point in history.
Although I have all the synchron pianos, and still found this video very interesting.
As I'm only involved with classical music making, I generally use just the Steinway and Bösendorfer sets, but I experiment with the other two every now and then.
Thank you for creating such excellent reviews.
Would love to hear your take on the Bluthner and upright eventually! Very underrated imo, even if they're not the stereotypical grand sound
I have always loved the Steinway sound along with Yamaha, but the 280 VC sounds so gorgeous. I would love you to demo the Soundpaint 1928 Steinway.
Also, referencing the mid-range experience of the Bosendorfer, that seems to match my experience listening to a Tori Amos album so think they captured the spirit quite well.
Thank you. Always appreciate your depth/perceptions/descriptions in these reviews. In another vein, I am curious about the quality of primary piano sample Yamaha uses in their various models. For example it would be very interesting to get your take on their implementation of the Yamaha CFX in the P515 as compared to the CFX in the newer lower priced DGX-670. I realize there is a big difference in sound systems but possibly you could do both concurrent with headphones to eliminate that aspect. A full blown review of the much improved DGX-670 would be great also. Just an idea. Thanks again.
Excellent presentation…no more need be said.
The Steinway & Yamaha knock me out. So different! The Steinway is incredibly special, mystifying (and still versatile) while the Yamaha is simply robust and clear and beautiful.
In these libraries the Yamaha samples seem the best for modern music, such as the (combo) jazz which I play. Jazz frequently uses complex voicings which might sound cluttered without the tonal priority to fundamentals - a real headache for sound engineers mixing whole bands too. Then again, introspective solo jazz piano might be absolutely glorious on the Steinway samples. I can imagine Ellis Larkins or Bill Evans... I can't comment for classical music, except to say that we know how popular Steinways D's are among concert pianists.
Sampling different pianos under the exact same conditions would be useful for comparing the pianos. Customizing the environment can give the best VST, which is what I believe is their purpose. Thanks.
thanks for these comparisons, very important considering how much they cost
Thank you very much...
Hi
I am not really into digital pianos, but this video is very interesting, for me a surprise in the level of quality of the pianos presented, may be it is a new world opening to me.Until now I have been a 100% acoustic pianos lover and not interested in digital at all, well, it is a time for everything.
Thanks to Merriam Music and Stu for this eye opener or better say" ears opener".
Warm regards from de Central Coast of Australia
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thank you so much for the kind words! We're glad that our VST reviews and comparisons were "ear opening" for you! ;)
Hi Stuart, Yet another professionally produced, informative and entertaining video. I would have liked the Bosendorfer Imperial included as a direct comparison although I appreciate that you have already produced a comparison video between it and the VC280 recently. May I ask if you could detail your computer specification, DAW and Audio Interface setup as you appear not to suffer from any of the latency issues that often plague user's setups; it would make for yet another informative video. Finally, may I thank you for producing your videos on all aspects of the piano experience, even though as a UK based viewer it's unlikely I'll ever be your customer, they're a beacon of light in these dark days!
Latency was unacceptably bad on a PC I have (12 core Intel, 48GB RAM and fast NVMe M.2 Internal SSD) but it is OK on MacBook Air Intel.
@@mfurman not true, you're not placing it in high priority and preventing your anti-virus or windows defender from scanning every file each time it is accessed. That is a user error.
@@mfurman in other words... it is a windows issue, not pc issue
@@bregonwebb8921 At the end, it appeared to be a driver issue. I recently replaced Roland FP-90X with Yamaha P-515 and with the low latency Yamaha Steinberg USB driver the problem disappeared. Now my PCs work better than a MAC. Of course it is at the end the operating system issues but PC=Windows and MAC=macOS so I was simply referring to the software running on PC.
@@bregonwebb8921 That is what I was saying. Once again, even though some run Linux or even other operating systems on PCs, it is a Windows computer. PC means a computer running Windows (by the way I am computer literate - CS engineer)
Stuart,
Say, thanks a lot for that run through. It was so much better than what was on offer from VST and I say that because you are exploring these sounds and for an informative analysis of each, that's what's needed.
I am tossing up between the D274 and the VC280. I have encountered the D274 a few times in person but these samples are much cleaner and even than any of the Steinways I have tried.
I am probably getting the Standard Steinway D274 and will upgrade if I think it's not good enough.
Your last wack at that 280 though was really impressive.
Mate, you gave me a big hand here.
I am new to electronic music. What sort of lead attaches to the computer? Is this USB?
Thanks mate,
B...
About to pull the trigger on that steinway ❤
Very nice! All of these VST plug-ins are quite wonderful in their own regard. :)
@@MerriamPianos quick question if you don't mind, I have a roland fp30, will this software connect to the keyboard with the 1 usb cable or so I need to get a sound card? My Pc is beefy so should be no problems there.
Steinway D sounds incredible!!!
Absolutely! It is a gorgeous sounding VST! :)
phenomenal review. I do own CFX and now thinking I kinda prefer Steinway I guess :)))) wonderful pianos all of them ofc
Ha, I feel the opposite. Grass is always greener on the other side. Just have fun with what you got and remember that the settings can make all the difference.
I bought CFX first, and then Steinway. To me, CFX is sweet, Steinway in angry. In lots of situations, I need the angry sound.
So interesting, to hear difference beetwenn these 3 plugs premium VSL. So, many many thank's.
You're very welcome! We're glad you enjoyed the video! :)
@@MerriamPianos , Stuart, I have got a question about latency (experience player). I have never played a such plug wich seems to sound so good, and I wondered if we have the same experience as far as is concerned an eventual latency when keyboard is played. Is there a difference between a CP88 and a midi controller (A88 or S88 Mk2) plus the plug in such these Synchron ?
Many thank's for your honest answer.
Stu’s reviews of VSTs are great. The only problem with the way they are done is that those VSTs are used as plug-ins in Logic Pro. We never hear much about VST piano players and potential issues with installation. There are problems associated with both VST PC installation and compatibility with Apple M1 architecture
Hi Michael! We will definitely try to incorporate some more info regarding installation and configuration processes when it comes future software and VST reviews. Thanks for the suggestion!
Compared to Stu I can’t play at all. No exaggeration. To Stu: Enjoy your talking very much and even more your playing. Really GREAT job in all of your vids I saw!
Own VSL Boesend. Imp. and CFX (standard versions), Kawai MP7 SE, iLoud MTM monitors, Focusrite solo and AKG K702. Just to classify, can’t play but have good stuff ... Before deciding for Imp. and CFX did intense testing of D-274 and VC280 (and besides those with other VSTs like Garritan and Ravenscroft I own also), all with monitors respectively headphones, setting Player Mode/Decca Tree, very low reverb. I liked D-274 especially for its precise and clear lower range and it’s very well blended tones. Wished to love it but what sounded strange to my ears was it’s middle range. You can find similar complaints in VSL forums. Sounds cembalo or spinet like and doesn’t really fit to its upper and superb lower range. Sorry about that. For me VC280 sits between CFX and D274 (but with much more pleasant mid range than D274). Nothing special, all in all somewhat boring and compared to the others it has too less microphone settings. Imperial sounds what you might think a Grand should sound. Absolutely harmonic in every range and from note to note - this is what I expected from D274 but didn’t hear… I would describe the Imperial as warm, full, balanced and trustworthy. Much better lower range than VC280 and perfect middle range. CFX sounds fresher than Imp., not quite as harmonic but with much more bite and aggressiveness. Imp+CFX: For me the best couple out of the bunch. Best would be lower range: D274, middle range: Imperial and higher range: CFX (also has nicest velocity curve) …
Update 11/2022: Now I took the chance for a second look at the D274 (VSL enabled a free 30 day test). Since my first review (see above) VSL must have updated and heavily improved their D274: now it also has a perfect middle range (and D5) - at least in my ears -, the whole piano is singin' with well balanced overtones (player perspective, no tweaking). Too bad, they didn't this job earlier ...
Interesting. From the samples I've heard, I actually prefer the Steinway's mid-range to its treble and really dig how it sounds. To each their own.
Now having tried it myself, I agree, actually. This VSL library lacks the meek and mellow tone of a real piano at mid velocities, which is unfortunate, but it's still definitely pretty nice. CFX seems to better in that regard. That being said, though, I only have the standard version, and I hope the close mics included with the full version are better.
Hi Stu. I noticed all digital pianos have a spec called touch response and it has something like 5/3 sensitivity levels. And also there is dual/triple sensor action. What is the difference between these two specs. It would be helpful if you could make a small video on this.
My third comment 😊 I have tested both Yamaha CFX and Concert D-274. I already have Bosendorfer Upright 130 and will test Bosendorfer 280VC soon. I also have Garritan CFX. Synchron Yamaha CFX although impressive is not without problems. It may be me but there is something about some upper base (below C4) that I do not like. they sound strange to me and I much prefer the sound of Garritan CFX for these tones. It was not mentioned but Synchron Yamaha CFX does not allow to change key return noise and this is something I always do. Pianoteq is definitely much easier to use as far as all the settings are concerned.
Hi Michael! Thanks for contributing to the conversation and providing your insights! We appreciate it and it is always cool to hear the perspectives of our community members. Every VST is a little different in terms of the parameters and options that they allow a user to change or manipulate and, needless to say given that they represent very different pianos with very different tonal profiles, different players will have different choices when it comes to which one they resonate with the most. The most important thing though is to find a sound that you connect with. :)
Steinway Model D blew me away
Hi Stu, I own the VSL Steinway library, and am also interested in getting the Kawai NV5 like yours. Are you able to do a review of how the VST sounds when it is hooked with the NV5 (and audio output from VST is feed into the NV5 so that the audio is played via NV5's transducer). I'm intersted in your opinion on how this setup would work, and how what it sounds like. I am interested in know how Kawai NV pianos works with third party VSTs, and if it could be the most versatile acoustic-like digital piano on the market. Thank you.
Amen to the above request.
Thanks a lot for the video, Stu! Would you mind sharing the DAW EQ settings you used when playing the pianos? Thanks!
Hi! Brent here! Thanks for tuning in! Generally speaking, there are no additional EQs or plugins applied when making these video reviews and comparisons. Our goal is to relay the most transparent sound possible. :)
Can you trigger these using an ES110 as the MIDI controller and getting a good key action response? Thank you.
Is it always better to change the velocity curve solely on the VST or somewhat on the midi keyboard as well?
I think the Steinway Model D sounds best to me. The CFX is too "Bellish" in the mid range. The 280 VC would be the other one and the Imperial to try. I'll be testing soon. ;-)
I wonder why Stu has never reviewed a Shigeru Kawai VST. Has he?
Or perhaps there isn't any? Which would be unfortunate as its sound is so lovely
Unfortunately as far as I know there are not any Shigeru Kawai VSTs available.
I have never seen a Kawai VSTi advertised anywhere. I guess that Kawai concert grands are still less known. But maybe there is also a technical reason (could be harder to sample adequately) or an exclusive corporate decision to do with exactly who may sample Kawai pianos.
There is a Kawai EX PRO. It sounds pretty good if adjusted properly.
I would be interested in a review by you when we dexibell digital piano
Thank you so much for your in depth reviews. I do have a question: How CPU-friendly and RAM-friendly is the full version of one VSL Synchron piano? And for slow computers: Is it a good idea to play with only a few/only one microphone position for recording and rendering the audio then with more microphone positions?
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for reaching out! As is the case with any VST or recording/production software, slow computers may struggle and create latency and lag issues. I wouldn't say that the VSL Synchron piano is significantly more robust than other VST pianos, but you will need a computer with sufficient specs to get the most out of it performance-wise.
Excellent presentation Stu. What Keyboard where you using for this comparisons and what would be the best for these plug-0ins?
Stu is using the Roland RD-2000 with the PHA-50 keybed. Fwiw, the Kawai ES920 is a bargain imo.... and their true wooden key models are outstanding.
I use the StudioLogic SL88 Grand and the default velocity curve works wonderfully. I use the CFX, 280VC, Steinway and Bosey Upright.
I demoed the Steinway and it doesn't sound impressive when you can't play 😆.. You made it sound amazing.
Don't be too hard on yourself! It takes time to adapt to a new instrument and how it reacts musically sometimes. :)
Thank you for the video. The warmth of the Bösendorfer is gorgeous. Can you explain your setup for playing these VSTs? I'm interested in getting one but am unsure of how much cpu power I need to play them in real-time.
What CPU do you have?
And I'd say it's most important to have an SSD to put them on. RAM is also very important if you intend to use more than one mic sample set at a time; if you look at his screen in some of the shots, you can see the program's using over 4 gigs of RAM.
@@BlueGrovyle Thanks for the reply. I want to buy a dedicated computer for this. Is the sound card important? Should I get a separate sound card vs relying on the motherboard's?
@@longhaulblue modern integrated sound cards are fine unless you're trying to be a professional. If that's the case and you have a budget for it, you could invest in an external audio interface. My PC's model is not super recent or high-end (HP Pavilion 570-p0xx), but coupled with my SSD, its ~3.4GHz processor and 2.4GHz, 16-GB memory have proven to be more than enough for my purposes.
@@BlueGrovyle Thanks.
Stu great video for classical music do you believe that this is the best piano vst ?
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! I certainly can't speak on Stu's behalf, but this is certainly an excellent VST library and well suited for classical playing of course. Thanks for tuning in! :)
Stu, I'm worried about your ergonomics reaching back that far for your mouse so much. I have been able to buy a cheap bar stool and I place it right in front of my keyboard by octave 7, and it solved the problem for me without getting in the way of the keyboard. I hope this helps. I love all of your reviews.
There certainly is no ideal set up.
Hi Stuart, If I want just the Steinway D only in Player setting can I get away with "Standard Library" purchase or do I need the "Full Library" purchase option? Also would I need the Vienna key too?
and do they so student discount?
I only have the d274 standard and I find it good enough. I tend to use mainly the close mic mixed with either the decca or the mid mic. The full library gives you the vwry good ribbon close, but i cna live without it. And you can always upgrade later paying the differrence in price...
For the moment you need the vienna key, but they will migrate soon to the ilok system. I believe they will offer back the price of the vienna key as future credit.
@@johnoakleymusic about the student discount, yes. They had a student sale in September to October and I got three separate libraries (Steinway and some wind instruments) all for 40% off.
Do I understand correctly that you used the Roland RD2000 simply as a MIDI keyboard, such as the Keystation Pro 88?
Exactly, just as a controller like the one you mentioned. His RD1000 has a great keybed, Roland’s PH50.
Lucky you. They couldn't have a better person to demonstrate their voices. Why do you use the RD2000 over your NV5? It's a different experience for me today, as I'm using a Raspberry Pi-400 connected to a Samsung 24" TV monitor. I'm more used to the small speakers on my Lenovo I7 powered laptop. This is off-topic, but I just installed Manjaro Plasma on this Pi, and it runs very nicely and quite smoothly, albeit somewhat hesitant from a processor point of view. The first preset on the Yamaha really appealed to me.
He uses the RD2000 because, unlike the NV5, it's a slab that fits on the desk in front of the computer that's running the VST. Just a matter of convenience...
@@SeaDrive300 OK. thanks.
Purchasing these is a bit confusing in terms of price. Even the Vienna site doesn’t make it clear what you’d be purchasing . What should a package of these 3 pianos cost in the US more or less? Your musicianship is astonishing by the way
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! The prices are currently listed on the VSL website for each sample set. :)
You can view the various options and prices here:
www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Package/Synchron_Pianos_Bundle
Which one is Stu's favorite VSL? I guess he likes the CFX
I don't know. He likes Kawai and Bechstein. This is his second tier of preferred instruments.
@@benjaminsmith2287 by VSL ?
I don't know Stu,
but by guessing from his videos
he probably likes the Yamaha CFX the most out of these 3 VSL ones.
I would guess that's why he (or Merriam company(?)) bought the Yamaha CFX VSL library instead of the Steinway or the Bösendorfer.
He seems to like Kawai (real/non-emulated/non-VSTi/etc) pianos,
especially if it comes to upright entry-/mid level upright pianos (instead of Yamaha uprights in the same level/range, although I can imagine that he might prefer a Yamaha grand instead of a Kawai grand for a concert,
but I have a gut feeling that he really likes the Kawai touch (and the different Millenium III actions that come inside Kawai pianos, both upright version and grand version of that action is super smooth to play on),.
Getting back to Stu's possible piano preferences,
he even mentions in his Kawai K-15 video that the Kawai K-15 was the very first real (not plugin emulation) piano instrument that he bought with his own money back when he was in college or something, I can't remember exactly.
(PS. Sorry, this got way longer then it should, at the moment I was just feeling like typing away :))
Bosendorfer 280 is christmas
When you purchase this, is it delivered on a hard drive? I can't imagine it's downloaded.
Download, but they offer a drive option, or at least did.
I have 6 of the 8, downloaded each one. Our ISP gives us 1.28TB per month and I need 600-800GB for working from home, so I paced the downloads… easy since I didn’t buy them all at once.
All I can say is that I had nothing but problems when installing and trying to use Synchron on a PC (Xeon 12 core, 48 GB RAM). I already have Pianoteq and Garritan CFX (no problem installing or using them with the exception of CFX that I cannot reduce key return noise to 0). First of all, Synchron piano installation is unnecessarily complicated (I tried both free Soft Imperial and Bosendorfer Upright - both relatively small as far as library size). Secondly, no matter what file installation defaults I set, I had installation spread between two disks: numerous directories on my slower disk C: and some (library in particular) on dedicated, faster drive H: (I only want to have this drive used for VSTs). Finally, I had big lag between pressing the key and getting the sound. I have a specific setup. I use FP-90X connected with USB MIDI to my computer and I use USB Digital Interface option Roland has to send the digital signal over the same USB cable to FP-90X (Roland’s DAC, amp and speakers are used). It worked perfectly with Pianoteq and Garritan but no matter what parameters I set, I have this unacceptable delay. I have to use Roland as output for Synchron piano and Roland appears on the list of audio output options (only one option!). Their support did not help me much. My experience with VSL is bad (to say the least). I have no idea why no reviewer ever mentions the installation issues on PC and the need for iLock hardware key.
Ps. AN UPDATE! After trying it on my very old MacBook Air, I could confirm that the installation of Synchron pianos works fine on an Intel based MAC. There is no delay and I decided to give on using Windows with VSTs.
Thanks again for writing in Michael! We appreciate the feedback and will do our best to cover these questions, topics and issues in future videos.
The Steinway sounded better than the Yamaha which surprised me.
Does anyone know if these VSL pianos run on the new Macbook Pro M1 Pro/Max machines? I have the VSL Yamaha CFX and am looking for a good laptop to play live gigs
I use the VSL pianos on live situations with M1. No hiccups there. I use the one I like the most in the Notebook HD, and the second one in a SSD external drive. And on top of that I use a compressor to get more loudness.
@@jessealves_xc That's great news thanks for your reply! I have ordered one of the new 16 inch macbook pro M1 Max machines with 32gb ram and 24Gpu cores so i'm hoping that will be enough to run VSL pianos live with low latency. Can I ask what latency settings you use? Can you get the buffer size as low as 64 or even 32 samples?
@@Mr.Zen_73 Mine has 16gb ram and 8 core gpu. I use an Apollo interface and I never tried to use so fast a sample rate. I usually play at 256 sample, because of the way I like to play. Besides the VSL itself, there some other plugins, like reverb and compressor. And I don't notice a significant delay. I have read that some players play at 64 samples, but they use the internal soundboard. I don't like this solution. Because low latency is not the only parameter that counts. I had an interface that had the same latency of the Apollo, but with very noticeable delay.
For live situations, the output of the interface is important. At least to me. My interface has a maximum output level of 20.2 dbu. For comparison, the Apollo x16 has 24 dbu. I believe the internal soundboard is way lower than this.
@@jessealves_xc Thanks for the info! I need to have buffer at least 128, preferably 64 or 32 when playing live (I play Jazz with band). My new macbook pro M1 Max should be arriving anyday now so I will let you know how I go and how low I can get the buffer size without it crackling :-)
These libraries sound cool, but getting the right velocity to be as expresive as on a real piano or whats offered in a good digital piano is next to impossible. Ive tried with both hp605 and my Kronos keyboards.
It comes down to the action and sensor system. Some digital controllers like the Kawai VPC1 have excellent sensor systems that do a fantastic job at rendering all of the expressive nuances and dynamics of the player. It is certainly worth a shot! :)
Wanna know wich is your own favourite stu?♥️
We recently did a Q&A video with Stu where these types of questions were covered. However, your question was not covered! I will add it to the list for a follow-up Q&A video with Stu. :)
Thanks so much for the question!
Stainway best..👍👍
Tonal preferences will always come down to the subjectivity of the player, but I think it is pretty undeniable that the Steinway Model D is a wonderful sounding instrument. :)
If Stu had to pick just one?
That is a good question and one that I would have to forward directly to Stu of course. :)
Is that a Roland VR 730?
That stage piano is RD-2000
@@SHANATE thanks you
I don't know if i like the bosendorfer's sound, come off really plain sounding. Kind of missing some liquid quality
That's totally fair. Tonal preference is a very subjective thing. Different players will gravitate towards different piano tones. :)
Bosendorfer wins
Every player will have their own personal preferences, but it is hard to argue with the notion that the Bosendorfer 280 VC is not an exceptional piano VST. :)
Hi Stu. OVERSIZED cursor please, in some insanely bright color 8-) Poetry is music, poetry is words... reviewers of the audiophile gear could learn from you :) Have fun, play with the format, stamp it with your style. I have fun listening.
Una corda?
I believe most of these VST pianos have una corda samples. :)
@@MerriamPianos I personally always want to hear the Una Corda on piano VIs, as well as a thorough exploration of the soft velocities. A lot of samples are deficiency in the lower dynamics. Cheers
The mid-tones still smell, taste and hear very electronically, by all the "pianos".
At the end of the day, even the very best digital emulations of acoustic pianos are emulations. With that said, the technology has certainly come a long way! :)
Worse than you recording your piano in your living room?
What a nonsensical comparison of three grand pianos on a Roland electric piano. Not only the sound, but also the playing experience, the technology and the material deserve to be in a direct comparison. Stu, you can do better!
Brent here! I am not sure I understand. This comparison is of VST plugins, which is specifically designed to be used in conjunction with a digital piano or MIDI controller. We have a variety of other comparison and review videos on our CZcams channel where we examine the actual acoustic pianos as well.
What on earth are you talking about? He’s using the Roland as a simple controller, like a StudioLogic SL88 Grand, or anything else. It has a great keybed for velocity, excellent choice to use as a controller. You DO realize that the Roland onboard sounds are not being accessed in any way, correct?