Ham Radio - Viewer Request - My home HF antenna solution, 160-10 on a small city lot!
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- One of my viewers wanted to know what I use for HF antennas at the QTH. So here you go.
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W9TE (Node: 519521) - Věda a technologie
I have a recommendation...
On the recommendation from an Elmer at Tacoma Radio Club. I built a half wave fan dipole for 40, 20, and 15 meters which I have mounted at 25 feet off the ground. I have been very happy with this antenna because with only 20 watts PEP. on 15 meters I have made contacts in Japan, Brazil, Cuba and all over the continental USA and most of Canadas' southern territories with signal reports as high as 5-5 in Japan and Brazil.
I have no balun or choke on this antenna. It is tuned such that I don't need a tuner band wide on 40, 20, and 15 meters, plus I get about 1/3 of 6 meters without using a tuner... What I mean by without a tuner is an SWR of 2 or less.
With a tuner I can use 60, 30, 17, 12, 10 and the rest of 6 meters...
On the down side...
Because my fan dipole is fixed at 25' off the ground. 10 through 20 meters are the only bands I have with any kind of legs for distance.
The height is almost ideal for 15 meters so that's the band that works the best.
Because I am fortunate to have mature Douglass Fir trees to mount my antenna. I do plan to put up a pully system to be able to incrementally raise and lower the antenna from 6 feet to 65 feet off the ground so I can get top performance from at least 6 through 40 meters.
I currently have pullies set up so I can lower it for tuning and maintenance purposes without using ladders..
If anyone is interested in how I built and tuned this antenna.
The wire is insulated #12 solid copper pulled out of Romex I had left over from an earlier remodel on my house. I used cheep electric fence insulators and para-cord to support the ends.
I used 3/4 inch PVC water pipe with holes drilled 6 inches apart to separate the antennas and I used plexiglass left over from another project for the center/feed-line mounting plate.
I started with the 40 meter and tuned it first. Then I added the 20 meter and tuned it which also required a little retuning of the 40.
Then I added the 15 and tuned it which required a little retuning of the 20 but surprisingly the 40 remained good.
The 40 gave me an SWR dip at the high end of 15 meters so I tuned the 15 to take advantage of that dip to get a lower SWR into the low end of the band. This gave me an SWR across 15 meters of less than 1.5...
I then ran a sweep across all the bands the antenna tuner could do and found I also had a significant dip into 6 meters. I also ended up with SWR values less than 10 on all the bands 6 to 60 meters. 80 meters has a dip to 7 just below the band but is 15 or higher across the band and 160 meters is in the high 40's SWR across that band.
I'm using a Rig-Expert AA-55 for tuning.
Keep up the good work, and keep em coming.
Just passed my tests, tech and general. My learning curve is high right now, all kinds of info. Knowing what I know now, when I was searching to buy my home 20 years ago, I wanted space. Not for antenna's, but for go cart track, bon fire, general privacy. Later on, work wear me down over the years and did not wanna even mow that yard any more. Anyway now with all I have learned, A 66 ft wide is not very good, but my property is 467 ft deep. Advantage me for horizontal dipole. Now I just need someone to "string it up for me good.
Thanks for the video, Kevin. Reminds me of setting up antennas at my Parent's. I finally got the "OK" to set up a mast which gave me ability to do a simple G5RV-jr. Which in hindsight was easy compared to what I'm dealing with now (Apartment).
Great vid! I'm going to forward this to a ham friend who lives in a small city lot very much like your own setting! Thanks and 73!
Thanks for letting me see another idea for something to run on a city lot! 73, KE6N.
I also had good success with a temporary 98ft endfed in my oaks. I jumpered that to my mobile antenna and it's 6:1 transformer. Lots of contacts.
Nice video with find information and a very good presentation style - articulate and intelligent. I have three antennas in my attic - a crossed X multi band dipole and two screwdriver antennas. They work well - over 100 countries and all states
Great video there Kevin, I myself have very limited space and I have played with long wires in the past, I too wound a unun but mine was a 6:1 on a 150 torrioid, I didn't play with the turns on it what I did was experiment with the length of the wire, the magic number for me was 75 feet, I could use it on all bands and it was resonant on 17 and 10 meters, due to lack of room I had it configured in a box like shape about 25 foot in the air horizontal, it was a little noisy but it worked really well specially on 40 20 and 17 meters, I have since took it down and I now use a western HF10 which is again horizontally mounted at the same height, boy oh boy is this thing quiet the only place I have a noise floor is 80 meters and that's only a S3, downside is it's no good for top band but that's stated on the specs for it, have a look at one Kevin there's a great review on them on eham. 73s and keep them videos coming
Great video on your antenna solution. Small lot size can be a challenge, but can inspire some very usable ideas. I have two end-fed antennas plus a 5 band vertical on my lot that is slightly bigger than your lot.
Thanks Kevin! Your videos are inspirational and make this channel worth subscribing to! 😄 WB5PUN
Thank you Kevin! I have a 10,000 sq. ft. lot here and of course, no trees! You do what you can that works just like you did. I do have an 8-band vertical (80-10m) which is ground mounted and a 3-band ground plane for 6/2/70cm up on a 2 story roof with a chimney mount and mast. I recently made an OCF dipole that's a flattop in the horizontal plane but...I really need to get some elevation to it in order to do 160m work with it, it actually works 6' off the ground but that's not good or ideal, lol... The OCF dipole tunes 160-10m surprisingly with a tuner, made me laugh!!
I love the videos you do Kevin, just received my callsign and license here in South Africa , hope to make a QSO with you soon - ZS2GHK -- 73
I’m kinda Jealous, your dandelion crop looks better than mine…. Lol, nice job on antenna system! K7DFL, “The most dangerous farmer on ham radio”
I have the same situation and I installed about the same length of wire from the peak of my home (one stormy home) to a push up fiberglass pole 25' high at my shed down to the roof of the shed to the hydro pole at 10' high for a max. Of 115'. It should 107' or 98' but the LDG 200 pro II takes care of it all. On the higher band the tuner is not required but I need it on 160 & 80 meter.
Roy
Ve2uy
Good video, good viewing and commentary :-)
I converted my dipole to a doublet thought it tunes relatively well on all bands it really does suffer from lack of height it's elevation mirrors yours more or less still impressed with how well it performs
Really enjoy your videos. Now I will stop procrastinating and get on 160 with a similar setup. I am using crossed inverted V's for 20 and 40 with 2 feeds and no balun. It works well but is limiting. 73's. K6KCT
I with I understood this stuff better.
Praying for your job situation.
Kevin,
You gave me some ideas about an OCF antenna that may fit on my 1/3 acre plot. Good luck on the job hunting. 73 WB3BJU
Thank you for sharing
Small? I'd be glad of that small plot!
Interesting about your dipoles interacting, My 20m dipole has an SWR of 1.12:1 and 17m even better on one coax. My other dipoles are on another coax and have yet to tune them as I only recently put those up.
My rear garden is 25 ft x 12 ft. I've squashed a 60m inverted vee into it by bending it. 20, 17, 15, 12 and 10m dipoles in the attic. 2 different sized h/b magnetic loops in the front bedroom and a 2m dipole in the rear bedroom shack.
G4GHB
Excellent video Kevin! I enjoy seeing HAMS overcome the obstacles concerning antennas. My last home was in an HOA controlled area. I was able to get a 51' trap dipole in the attic with about 3/4 of it in a straight line and the last 1/4 at a 90 degree angle from the peak sloping to the end side of the roof. Sort of an 'L" shape. That worked fairly well. The Townhome I am in now is in an HOA community as well. This time I only have a 20'x20' garage attic to work with and I am about to try a 37' Off Center Fed Dipole for 10-40m. I plan to experiment with some other dipoles as well. BTW, I buy a lot of music gear at Sweetwater Music" in your city.
How did it turn out? I'd be interested in finding out. Tnx and 73 kf0gpx
@@montybates5176 - The 37' OCFD worked fairly well for CW and FT-8 but SSB phone was very poor. There wasn't much breathing room for the antenna and I had to install it in a sideways "L" shape at abou 10 feet high. Being so close to the roof and rafters resulted in high SWR. But it did allow me to get on the air. Others have had much better results in attics that have enough room to stretch the antenna to it's full length with 5-6 feet of distance from the antenna to beams and roof. I now have an outdoor mounted 53' EFLW @ 11' that is doing surprisingly well. Good luck and 73!
Tnx
Excellent video, thank you for posting. Just goes to show all antennas are an excersise in compromise. 73's KN6BVX
I enjoyed this video a lot! 73!
Really appreciate your channel. I've studied up for the Technician test, and I'm waiting to go take it sometime next month.
I'm planning on getting a baofeng BF-F8HP and either a collapsable Nagoya 15" or a slim jim rollup antenna.
Still not sure what I'm going to "DO" with the hobby... I'd love to do some DXing, but the 6-meter radios cost an arm and a leg (I'm a grad student :D ).
There's always the internet gateways, but to me that feels more like Skype than DXing (0 minutes radio time, and I'm already a snob -- see how that works? XD )
I saw in one of your videos (can't remember which one or old it was -- I was doing a CZcams binge to learn more about ham tech) that you were looking for part-time work.
Wishing you the best. (sincerest 73!)
Ram Laska If you decide to purchase a programming cable
for your Baofeng,avoid ordering
from overseas,too many fakes
that was my problem.Ordering
domestically is best
+richard dalton Yeah, I've heard a lot of complaints about the knockoff programming cables, specifically with the knockoff usb-to-serial chip.
Interesting how such a simple longwire is working so well. I'm getting back into ham radio - never did HF previously. Studying lots of antenna configurations to start getting ideas what I want. At my QTH not many restrictions: in the country with acres, many trees about 100 ft tall and we are on the side of a mountain. It will be interesting to see what evolves.
Best wishes on the job situation!
Hi , i do use a 9;1 un un now for more than 25 years it works well with 41,8 meter of wire , just i do'nt have the earth ground hooked to the un/un but at the antenna annecke " L " match-box bst 73 from hb9 land
Your lot is almost identical to mine, right down to the placement of the shed.
sgc-237 into a loop of "as much wire I could get up". Got me on every band from 80-10 excelled on 20m but had plenty of nvis contacts on 80m.
why a loop? I was in a first floor flat and couldn't figure out a nice RF ground so had to do either a balanced dipole or loop to remove the need for the RF ground.
Worked just fine, any radiator is better than no radiator :)
So basically this is a random wire or long as you could get it for the area type of antenna?
I never imagined something like this would work. Good job man!
Hi Kevin - Nice job, and thanks for sharing your design. Looking at the antenna wire coming off of the unun, I swear I see a pair of twisted wires. Am I correct or are my old eyes failing me? - Jim (KK7CSC)
Just recently installed an 80m loop, 264 ft long at the top of the wooden fence this can be rectangular or triangular and the sides do not have to be equal Coax from the shack to yard, then attach a 2.5:1 transformer at ground level, then run 450 ohm ladder line up to connect to loop . I’m in Fort Worth and have recent QSOs 2000 mi + Including Las Vegas Miami Seattle New York and Washington state I just use speaker wire
The average height is 6 feet
Be grateful for the space you have. I want to do QRPp in a 10 x 15 room (apartment) lol. No challenges there!
Do you have a balcony? Maybe one with a rail?
Your band selection will be limited but you can do it homebrew with wire. Give us your set up. We can come up with some possible solutions for at least a mono band but maybe a compromised multiband (2 to 4 bands).
I use to use push pins and enameled wire to an SGC turner or use the 4:1 Balun in an external transmatch and pin the light gauge wire like 16 gauge wire to the ceiling. Run 2 times around the ceiling or wall, like 3 inches apart. That's about 100' of wire. You can easily transmit QRP and get on at least 30 meters and above. Easy peasy on 20 meters. It was a temporary set up 1005/frequency in MHz or just use as much wire that you can pin around the ceiling and then use that cheap 300 ohm TV twin lead and hook it the balun in your tuner...tune to find a match for each band. Use 5 watts or less and you are good. Also use a loop antenna but put it in a different room as the loop as lots of radiation coming off of the antenna...don't fry your head. have fun. I lived in Apartments and worked over 100 countries. It's not impossible. I had some pretty impressive antennas back as an apartment dweller. Go see the Isotron antennas if they are even still available. I had one on 80 meters. It worked Great.
Digger D 10x 15 room, you are so lucky! I live in a basement that floods, and it's only 8,6 X 9 foot with just one electrical outlet on the ceiling. I dream of doing QRP but my double A battery only allows 100 m.w 2 watts I dream about that sort of power
Kevin, Nice video. Wow, you have a 'coal chute' on the side of your house plus a 'mail chute'! How old is your house? I haven't see them in 50+ years!
Nice video Kevin! You might want to try the DK7ZB triple leg vertical as your DX vertical (40-10m). I worked Australia New Zealand with bare foot hundred watt on 40M 20M and 10M.
73 DE KD2AVU
Hi Kevin,
Could you share the details of the switching relay that you use, and the construction of it etc?
It sounds like a perfect solution to a problem I'm having.
Thanks, and 73!
It's a simple DPDT relay with the coax going to the center poles and each antenna on the outer poles.
I suggest a different arrangement: Try a LOOP SKYWIRE on your property. It will give delightful DX performance from 40 to 2 meters with significant gain and excellent receive. You would need to have a pole placed at each corner of the property to use as an anchor point (the higher the better). An Antenna tuner and a 4:1 Balun is also needed. Other than that, you need about 280 feet of Copper-clad steel wire along with a length of 3/4" "ladder line to lead into your house. REMEMBER to GROUND the antenna when not in use or whenever the weather is bad and to disconnect your gear when not in use. I can confirm that this antenna will give you excellent DX results for all bands at all power levels and the cost will be fairly low. I have spoken to Japan on SSB 17 meters via greyline propagation from East Coast USA reliably everyday with 5 watts transmit power....yeah, this antenna ROCKS!
I'v always wanted a shed.
Cool deal. I notice you make mention of contacts you make on AM 160 in Tennessee. that reference is useless unless you specify where your qth is. just a pet peeve of mine. Many do it...
I'm in northern Indiana. The other ham was in eastern Tennessee.
Tough situation. Hope that wire is insulated as it could drop across the power at the back of the house. You might consider putting a couple of turns of #14 around the whole house under the eves and turning that whole thing into an HPOL magnetic loop. Should tune to just about anything with the right match box.
It might not have been so evident in the shot, but the power line goes off to one corner and the antenna in the other direction. There's about 8 feet between them at the house. No real chance of contact. I did try an antenna under the eves, but it was basically a loop around the house and all of the noise sources inside. It was very noisy.
Excellent video Kevin. I was wondering how the end fed performs since it's not in a straight line? I've been considering moving an end fed I have to a location where it will have bends in the line. So I wasn't sure how well that will work. BTW, I hope things turn around for you in your search for work. Take care and 73! Scott N1SER
The closer it is to a straight line, the better. Ideally, it would go off in one direction straight, and the counterpoise wires would go off in the opposite direction straight.
In my case, since it's kind of a curve up away from the earth, it acts more like an NVIS antenna on 80 and below. I lose propagation when there's a strong x-ray event and D layer absorption goes up. It does lower angles on 40 and up. 20 and up it gets low enough to work DX easily.
Old news now! Just get an MLA30+ and you are gold!
That's an RX only antenna. It's in a different class than antennas for transmitting.
Thanks for the video! Do you have any info on the relay you used to switch antennas in you attic? Thanks, John
It was just a DPDT relay I pulled from the junk box.
Very nice. Thank you for this video request. I won't ask because it appears your OCF is constructed of the gauge wire I will be using, 18 awg. I've used 12 awg, and 14 awg antenna projects. The next town over has a Tractor Supply Company where I found reels of 18 awg electric fence wire at a great price. Also, picked up plastic screw in insulators. Cost much less than the ones at ham radio outlets. I live in a duplex just outside a campus city that has a large backyard. Then the next door neighboor has been a friend for 40 years has many tall trees that he said I can hang wires in if I like. There are only a select few that don't sway much in a strong wind but if I can get the mount points up high enough I will be able to hang full wave loop tuned for 160m. I'd like to get the antenna mount points up at least 30 feet; many maples with slender trunks; if I hadn't gained weight after retirement I would try climbing them using Japanese tree climber method (video somewhere on youtube). An antenna using 18 awg should be fine because I rarely transmit more than 5w with QRP rigs and rarely up to 100w with my FT-857D. Except for my Cushcraft 7 band vertical, my feedlines are 600 ohm (homemade) or 450 ohm window line to my window, then coax to the radio desk.
An aside not amateur radio related. I wonder if your viewers know what the flap, on the side your house, is. Your house must be close to 60 years old. It appears to be in great condition.
+Terry Morris 1925.
Plant so trees where you need them it will only take some years for them to grow. You are young you have the time.
You might not be up on my current situation. I'm living in an RV and currently in the south west desert. I do find trees to use for antennas occasionally though.
Very nice Kevin! How long are those counterpoises? I tried a similar setup from a ham club out of Hawaii but the wire was a bit too short and the results were not what I was hoping for. What toroid number are you using? I might have to dig that project and try it out again now that your vid has given me some motivation. What is the max wattage that you've pushed in this setup?
Hi Rob,
I used T50-2 cores. I've pushed 100W with no problem. You wouldn't want to go too much higher though, the eddy currents in the core would probably fracture it.
The longest counterpoise runs about 40 feet, the others are around 8 and 5.
Great video! What type of toroid core did you use please? Size and material type would be great. Georg ZS1GFL
It's been a couple of years since I wound it, but I think it was a T50-2. Some designs for higher power use a T200-2. Powdered Iron.
Hi Kevin, Sowhat sort of tuner do you have? I didn't see it in the video. Much appreciated from across the pond.
I have an LDG Z11pro and a built in tuner in my Kenwood TS440Sat. I use the Z11 for 160M and with my yaesu 817.
A copper what ?
what size and what length?
what is your eta to Lstation?
kb8qlz
Look up the trxcommunications 392M HF antenna
Hi Kevin. I sure do appreciate your videos. I'm looking at an end fed long wire as you describe here. I was concerned that the wire had to be in an L configuration or at a 90 degree turn. Am I correct that this is not that much of a concern? In your opinion of course. Thanks. JJK N6NRO
Kevin, until yesterday I would have interpreted your pictorial at 8:01 to mean that you wound coax around a toroid. But yesterday I saw a Taiwanese balun kit that wound discrete wires around the toroid. So my $64 question is this: Is it copacetic to wind a common-mode current choke with discrete wires or should I always use coax??
If you wind coax tightly, the center conductor can push it's way through the insulator and make contact with the braid.
how well does a dipole work indoors?
I'd be interested in learning more and seeing schematics for your 20/6m relay switch on the coax. That could solve a problem for me. Thank you.
It's a DPDT relay. The coax comes in on the center (throw) contacts. One set of polls goes to the 20 meter wires, the other set goes to the 6 meter wires.
@@loughkb Thank you.
I have some questions.
What kind of relay you have on the roof top, is it cool or solid state?
Is there anything like DiSeqc for HAM radio?
It's a fairly common DPDT magnetic mechanical relay. I doubt a solid state relay would work as I think those are usually built with something like SCR's and would act strangely with RF.
There are a few commercial antenna switches out there, but if they use any type of one wire serial or RF signaling and microprocessor control, I'm sure it's proprietary.
Alright thanks for the reply. I just start exploring HAM. My doubt with the magnetic relay was that if when active the load on the coil would interfere with the RF signal.
Very Cool, Kevin. Its always great to see actual setups that work. What kinds of toroids are you using for the 9:1 and the common mode choke? XLNT
They are T50-2 powdered iron cores.
Great. Have some. Might try something similar. 73
How did you know you had RF coming back?
First off, very nice video (all of your videos are great), You have a yard, i have a garden! LOL. I have a strip of dirt about 2 feet by about 12 feet. Ground floor, neighbors above and a big old square downspout between all the windows. Antennas do not work indoors because of the concrete......DO YOU WANT TO TRADE? HAHAHA
are those your mains power supply cables running under the antenna into the house?
Nope. The mains cable is on the left of the photo. The antenna comes off the roof about three feet to the right of where the power enters the house. Those other two under the antenna are the old copper phone line and the fiber internet run.
Hi Ritz! How or what zize of cable (wire) is the best for long wire HF antenna? #12 #13 or #14? Thanks fir your answer!
Anything will work just about as well. I've used tiny garden wire for a stealth antenna in the past. It comes down to how strong it has to be to support it's own weight and stress. There is discussion about efficiency, but the numbers are so small as to hardly be worth thinking about. In my opinion anyway.
@@loughkb Thanks a lot!
Why copper with the Moxon?
Try driving one of your gutters (using loop feed).
73's de KB7HC
Did that for a bit. It worked, but as all close to the house antennas, it picked up every noise source inside. Worse by far than the suspended wire up over the roof.
Kevin, how much power do you run normally?
Hello Curt, Often in the 5 to 30 watt range, sometimes a full 100 watts. I regularly check in to a local 160 meter and 80 meter net at 100 watts. I can measure just a bit of RF in the house when at full power, but it's not enough to be heard over amplified speakers. It can cause a bit of noise on the TV if it's on, but it rarely is. I haven't watched TV regularly for almost 10 years now. ;-)
Thanks for watching!
Question: If you don't have restrictions why not a small tower with a yagi and a vertical on top?
I would love that! But, I have no money to spend on stuff. I've been unemployed for two years and can't get interviews. If things change, some day I'll have a tower.
Well I wish you luck in that search Kevin, I've been there too. At least you're getting out and wire will never fail. Sometimes hardship is the basis for creativity.
Hi Kevin, Why couldn't you just install a tripod for a hex beam or just a long mast for a dipole?
With the length of the lot, I couldn't quite fit an 80 meter half wave dipole. And a regular dipole may be tuned to other bands with a tuner, but it will not radiate well on some bands, i.e. 30 meters. This does well on all bands.
A mast and beam, hexbeam or whatever, will do well on a few bands, but costs money I don't have. I've been unemployed for two years now and can't seem to get interviews anywhere. Modern job application systems and HR dept.s discriminate against older people. They're not supposed to, but I've been in I.T. and seen their communications. They do.
I can attest to that. Tied 3rd top in class at graduation and explanation for the 3 interviews I received our 1500 resumes was I was too experienced. Ha. Never worked that field. I knew going to college at Senior Citizen age would be difficult but not as difficult as it was. Good luck Kevin. I have a pension from previous career so I wasn't overly optimistic about finding employment after college graduation.
Terry Morris why were you too experienced? target your CV at the job.
I have a degree but if I was just going for a shop assistant job I'd not list it in my education section as it's irrelevant to the job.
M3ta7h3ad That is the point I was trying to elicit. I wasn't too experienced. I was a new graduate from college, 2006. I was retired from another career, 1993. My age at graduation was 60y. I was applying for System Administration jobs but I knew, and was told by the college career counselor, that my age might be an obstacle at getting hired. It was.
That looks like a Ukrainian Mace hanging there by your TARDIS light switch cover....
Look us up on Facebook ..
Amateur radio antennas large and small (all over the world)
Would this be good for 150 watts?
Sure, but you might want to wind the unun on a biggerT200-2 core with heavy wire. I rarely go above 50W and work the world.
Thanks for you reply. I've got a TS-520 and it's been many years since I've dealt with tubes. I'll work it out.
73
HELLO KEVIN, I WAS JUST WONDERING, WHY DONT YOU PUT UP A SMALL TOWER ABOUT 45 FT, LIKE A ROHN 25. THIS WAY YOU CAN PLAY AROUND WITH THAT , IT DOESNT NEED ANY GUY WIRES. THATS WHAT I HAVE HERE. THANKS, JOE