44 Henry Resurrection
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
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The 44 Henry round flourished from 1860 through the 1930's, primarily used in the 1860 Henry and 1866 Winchester lever guns. It may have been the perfect balance of capacity, power and recoil - but is no longer really available. In this video we discuss how to resurrect the 44 Henry Centerfire cartridge and use it in your 1860 or 1866 Winchester.
Anyone else cheer when the little lizard dude scuttled behind the cactus at 7:09? You go little dude!! Great video as always Karl, love your work
Cool to see Sinestral Rifleman make a small cameo in the video.
44 made by Geco (misspelled)
It's what we come here for!
I'm so tired I shouted 'Lizard!' and had to wind the video back lol. What a little guy :D
yes, i though my eyes were playing tricks at first
How about a 44 Special with a shortened lifter calibrated for 44 Russian. The Henry cartridge was 34mm overall with a 200 grain bullet and 28 grains of powder. The Russian was 36mm overall with a 250 grain bullet and 23 grains of powder. I reckon using a flat-point 200 grain bullet on a Russian cartridge would help shave some room out of the cartridge for a higher powder load, maybe 25 grains, which is pretty close to the Henry's 28 grains, and same bullet shape and weight. And Russian brass is commercially available without having to cut anything down.
This is so fun.
I could nerd out on this stuff for hours.
The 1860 Henry and 1866 Winchester pretty much meet the definition of "control round feeding" The round is controlled from loading to firing to ejection the round will not shake loose through the firing process.
Yes, unlike the Marlin. :p
I love this channel sometimes. Karl is the only "guntuber" still making the kind of interesting content that made "guntube" a thing in the first place. Most gun channels have been forced by their business models to become either: paid for "review" (sales) channels, or conservative rant channels. But Karl is still here talking about the guns he actually likes and educating others about them.
Nice to have a gun channel not constantly fear mongering about "the libs!" And their idols would ban guns faster than the dems ever could
I wouldn't say the " only " but clearly one of the few
Resurrecting something , It starts out all fun and games but next thing you know theres a Mob at your door with pitchforks and torches, your Castle's on fire and your vowing that you'll make them all Pay!!
Is this a reference to the original Frankenstein movie? I've only ever read the Mary Shelly novel, so I'm not sure.
@@jacobgreve802 I'm not sure. Perhaps it's Mel Brooks' Young Frankenstein.
this is the best presentation i've seen on the 44 henry and trying to match it , i use a 44 spl 66 and trim the cases to henry but i load the lead only to the first groove to keep my oal, what a great solution this moded carrier is , cheers big ears
Wow, thank you!
Babe wake up, new western InRange just dropped
Love the single action videos! Karl, please consider doing some videos on common lever guns like the "Henrys," Marlins, and Rossis that most of us plebs have and can afford. Pro and cons, compare and contrast to the old stuff, torture test... all will be appreciated.
Thanks! I do have a Playlist for leverguns, and some of that is in there:
czcams.com/play/PLj9u4Ts2NpEurUT2Q92aXTsr51GhQkudl.html
Dude I recently just started thinking about buying a 44mag Henry lever gun, then I see this! You must be psychic!
I live and grew up in Southeast Idaho. As a kid I lived on some property my dad bought from my grandpa that was roughly a mile from the Blackfoot River. My grandpa also had a farm nearby where I did a lot of hunting as a kid. One day when I was about 12, I found a .44 rimfire case on the property. I didn't know what it was but I could see it was rimfire. Not knowing as much about guns at 12 as I do now, I did some studying and decided it was a 45 auto rim case thinking the "rim" part meant rimfire lol. Sadly, I eventually lost it. I wish it was possible to know the history of that case. My grandpa found several arrow heads on that property too. We came to believe it was a hunting area for Indians being so close to the river and a few ponds as well as having plenty of cover and feed. Wish I didn't lose that casing.
That's pretty amazing to actually find a 44 Henry casing. I've found some old muzzle loader bulllets from a late 1800's army camp in Wyoming. Like you I eventually lost them though. I remember there being quite a few of them lying on the ground and I really wish that I would have picked more up, I have no idea where the camp is located anymore. I was just a little kid when I found them with my dad and he doesn't remember where we found them either.
We need more lever gun videos and we especially need more of this 1866!
Another excellent historical and technical video by Karl!
Taylors just came out with an 1873 Winchester reproduction in 9mm. Saw it at the national NRA convention, it was slick unfortunately they only have a model with 10 rounds in the tube but that seems like the perfect gun for dead eye for those who don't want to adopt a cowboy cartridge and reloading. Also, the cowboy shop converts 1873s to 45acp for like $500
they just need to work out how to use something like a smg mag to go in the lifter hole and then you have fixed the single loading issue :)
Early morning rootin and tootin
Once again, Karl is providing me with knowledge i didn't know i needed. Interesting topic!
Love this stuff.... the Old Timers had it right with the 44 Henry Cartridge.
7:10 Lizard at 7 o'clock ;)
A very interesting video. I will appreciate the Dead Eye competition even more now.
This might be a crazy thought, but please bear with me:
1866 in .45 ACP using 185gr pills.
I've herd of people doing that. You start with a 45 colt gun and sleeve the chamber to 45 auto and use one of those short cartridge Carrier Blocks.
The main difference is the ability to get off the shelf ammo.
@@wadekirby8575 what about using 45 Auto Rim cartridge?
Mark Novak worked on a lever gun sleeved to .45 ACP, don’t remember what model it was. I think it was a custom job for some police force in South America, cool video.
@@xBaronSamedi Yeah, was a Police gun that Bruno bought and Mark repaired.
XIEHaOkChq4 (if you know how yt video links work, you know)
For a second, I read the title wrong. I saw it as "44 Henry Erection". Perfectly normal.
I always learn something from and always enjoy this kind of content, although I've never seen a lever gun in this country. The mix of storytelling and technical information is perfect.
The history lesson videos are alway my favorite. Great work, Karl.
Im not so into the cowboy action stuff, but i enjoyed the entire video, it has a little history, some loading info, and the shell lifter thing was fascinating. Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
Oooooo, happy dance
lever action rifle video
Very simple cartridge conversion. Cool old rifles. I’ve never shot black powder anything. Tried to shoot a buddy’s muzzle loader several times but it didn’t set off the powder charge 😂 definitely neglected lol black powder cartridges are interesting to me though. Great video as always
I know of a Montana family that used Grandpa’s Henry rifle for deer hunting well into the 1960s, until the last .44 rf cartridge was fired. They replaced it around 1965 with a Winchester ‘94 in .30-30 caliber.
I love this content, and I’m so glad to help support it. Keep doing your thing Karl, you’re a beast!
The “Henry Hop” is my favorite quirk of the Henry lol
isn't 45 cowboy special basically equivalent to 44 henry?
edit: hah, that's what you get for commenting before watching
Thanks, Karl. It is a really interesting video. Have a great day
Brilliant analysis and quite thought provoking!
Another excellent video.
I've been waiting for this vid! Thanks for the info Karl! Another informative and well presented video.
Thanks for the video, Karl! Love historical content.
Cool. Enjoyed the explanation of how you did the conversion….very interesting thanks
Interesting information and opinions. Well presented Sir. 😎
A Lee 45 acp quick trim die and power trimmer with the deburring tool removed makes brass from LC cases quickly.
Always, always good! Thank you Karl.
Thanks for this. Really enjoyed it.
Good stuff brother, 👍👍👍 I dig the old school rigs.
Great interesting and informative video. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Good stuff, Karl!
Another terrific video Karl . Really piqued my interest for lever guns 👍🏼
Great content!
Awesome vid!
excellent video. thanks.
My favourite obsolete cartridge is the 577-450 Martini Henry. Big hunk of lead from a sizable power load.
Does the lifter/carrier with the short cartridge mechanism have issues with loading? I can imagine that while loading the last cartridge pushed through the Kings gate isn't shoved in deep enough to capture the plunger.
That can happen, so you just push harder with a finger or use a lil' something for the last round. It's not too big a deal.
Awesome Karl
Very cool, love the Henry and the cartridge!
The 44 Henry was a sweet round. Luv that it can be re-created so effectively! Thanks Karl. I recall that carrier being covered before, yes?
I'm pretty sure I mentioned it briefly, but never covered it in detail.
I was thinking about this, but with the .45 Schofield.
Cool stuff!
Neat modify the carrier. Back when I shot CAS I had an 1860 He Ty in .45 Colt and a pair of 1872 Open Tops in .45 S&W. I modified the extractor on my He Ty to work with the larger rims and it fed them perfectly. Loaded with BP, it was a near clone for the old Henry round.
❤❤❤❤ InRangeTV!!❤❤❤❤
That was very interesting. I enjoy learning more about the era I love. Thanks so much Karl for sharing.
Love the old west guns videos.
Astonishingly, the Winchester Model 1866 was still being manufactured by the company until 1898.
Very interesting.
Life is so harsh... every day feels the same... I don't know how long I ca-
Oh, a video about antique firearms :) All is well again
This is the kind of historical, technical coverage that I enjoy most! Damn U-Tube for forcing you guys to go behind pay-walls that poors like ME cannot afford! 😡 Karl, was the rimfire Henry round produced into the 1930's, or were they only making the center fire version, by then? A thought I had years ago, looking at repro 92 Win. Carbines was why no one modified the extractor hooks to function with .45 ACP? I realize now that would mean modifications to the lifter and shell stops, too, but imagine a sleek little levergun in either .45 ACP or 9 mm? Any rimless auto pistol round, really - I recall an episode of "Anvil," where Mark Novak was working on an OLD Rossi 92, in .45 ACP.... kinda project that made me go, "Hmmmm....".
What paywall? Almost all of my content is free here on CZcams (and other distribution points), Patreon is there for people who can support our work and keep it alive.
As for your question, they were still making the rimfire round into the 1930's.
@InrangeTv Patreon is a form of paywall, Karl. Gotta pay to get it, right? Not bitching with you, the fault is U-Tube's. I still enjoy what I can....
No. It's not a paywall. There's nothing exclusive, content wise, behind the Patreon - some levels get access to Discord, and others get early/discounted access to Brutality matches, but in regards to content - it's all here on CZcams, thus there is no paywall.
Ngl, I was hoping this was a video on .44 Henry Rimfire going into production again.
I'd love a big bore rimfire.
I've been wanting to do this for a few years
This isn't my thing, but I enjoyed watching it.
you had me at Ole Henry
Anyone else see the lil lizard at ~7:10
lil fella 😃
I've always wondered why the reproduction Henry and 1866 Winchester weren't chambered in 44 special.
It would be a little closer to the 44 Henry (more authentic) and if shooting black powder cartridges is probably closer to the original ballistics.
This has been on my mind for many years now.
The irony is that 45 Colt is actually closer to original .446 of 44 Henry than 44 Special is.
Very interesting!👍🏽😀❤️🇺🇸
Glad you think so!
I've been looking for a way to adapt an 1860 Henry repro to firing blanks only for historical reenactments.
I like your spring-loaded gate on the feed ramp. Thanks, I'll give it a try.
I have figured out a 44 Mag load with 200 grain bullets at around 1100 fps. Shoots nice.
Also have it cranked up a bit to 1300-1400 for the 44-40 ballistics.
Not exactly the same I know but I wanted to see if I could replicate the loading in 44 Mag.
Pretty as a picture.
My personal research showed me that.44 rimfire was basically equivalent to.45 ACP.
I’d be very interested in seeing the cut down cartridge chronographed and in ballistics gel.
is 45 auto rim not compatible with lever guns if it is that seems like a off the shelf solution
I was wondering that too. Seems like a cool gun if it would work.
Awesome hat to go with those rifles
Interesting concept less powder equals less following good idea. I was wondering what your conversion rifle barrel slugs out to
I've been meaning to get another lever gun, this isn't helping me avoid doing that 😁
A cool extension/crossover of this could be the 44 and 41 rf Derringer cartridges. I would very much like to see some real modern analysis of how those now lost cartridges would perform given their ubiquity of this class of weapons in the post civil war west.
Colt Thuer Derringer - 3rd Generation
czcams.com/video/0XJpNoQb5qk/video.html
@@InrangeTv I loved that video but I was hoping for a comparison or discussion of the 44 rf Derringer like in the Hammond bulldog too.
I personally use 44 russian as my base for 44 henry. 44 russian case is just .07 inches longer than 44 henry.
200 grains at 1100 fps is pretty close to 10mm Auto. A 10mm Auto lever could be an interesting idea. Plus a 10mm Auto case is 25mm long, whereas a .44 Remington Magnum case is 33mm and .44 Special is 29mm, so that would give you extra capacity in a long tube with 10mm Auto.
It seems Dimensionally .45 Cowboy is basically American .455 Webley Mk I, the rim even seems more reliable in lever guns than .45 colt.
Would this style of carrier mod work to run .38s&w in a 1892 that's chambered in .357?
Neat!!!
I offen wondered why my 1873 in 357/38spl didn't double feed when using 38spl a shorted cartridge than 357. I have an 1860 and a 1866 both in 45 Colt. I looked for a 1866 in 44spl but haven't found one yet.
What would have been the velocity of .44 Henry in revolvers like the Colt Open Top or Second Model S&W American with non cut down barrel lengths, so 7.5 and 8 inches. I'm guessing 700-750 fps.
Interesting. It is my opinion that most of the early American cartridges i.e., Colt, S&W and Henry, were just bastardized open plagarization of the Ely .44 aka .442 Webley. Thin the rim (mouth to rear in direction) of any S&W .44 Special brass and shorten the case and depending on length of shortening you can get .44 Henry, .44 American, .44 Colt, .44 Russian and of course .442 Webley and .44 Bulldog. The only downsides I have encountered is the increased head thickness of modern brass reduces volume capacity so one can not with black powder insert as many grains of powder, and of course the lack of good healed bullet designs. Getting good crimps of case to bullet on some of the shorter cases can be a challenge requiring extensive modification of standard .44 Special crimping dies.
Saw the LOA issue raise its ugly head in the .38/.357 and .44 special/.44 magnum lever guns. Seemed to be worse in the .44 guns than the .38 guns.
I'm a little late but I was wondering if 45 auto rim would work in the 45 colt. Considering people have gotten the 45 cowboy special to work in m1917 revolvers after resizing the case. I have a feeling that 45 cowboy special maybe an unintentional reinvention of the 45 auto rim
Karl, I might have missed it, but: I have an 1866 repro in .44 Special with which I shoot .44 Colt loads (my goal was the same, to try and duplicate .44 Henry as close as I could), but would a .44 Colt cartridge cut down to .44 Henry dimensions cause the same problems as .45 Colt down to .45 Cowboy? I didn't see you mention anything about a new lifter for your 1866 in .44 Special, and the carrier replacement at the Online Outpost is only for .45 Cowboy. What is your solution? Longer bullet to keep OAL the same?
That is a simple and cleaver conversion. 17 rounds on tap sure sound good.
Did anyone ever make a forend for the Henry rifle? It would be rather difficult to do with that follower like that, but I was wondering if anyone thought of a solution better then the bad options I can think of. The onlything I can come up with requires far too much work.
Great idea! Would 44 Russian be comparable to 44 Henry center fire?
44 Russian is still too long.
I guess the .44 Colt would be a closer match to the .44 Henry.
Watching the current cowboy action shooter matches versus what you are doing gives me hope for the sport. You're far about the curve.
What about 45auto rim. That's a somewhat available round. Could you use it? I think you can get conversion cylinders for 1873s that would let you share ammo between revolver and rifle.
Less resurrection more funny pipe-dream idea, I think it would be kinda neato if you could design a lever-gun in 45acp, I got the idea after seeing some of the single action army clones with 45acp cylinders. I'm not an engineer, I'm a writer, so I don't know if that's doable but I think it would be kinda cool.
OK, i checked my Japanese winchester, not as complicated as the elevator block you show, but it can only vary at most a quarter inch or less. Just a tapered cutout tha pushes the the double feed back in the tube. So to go 44 henry center fire you would most likely start with a 44 spl. Next thought as someone mentioned is the .45 AARP/ APC ?
So what trickery goes into making a lever rifle that shoots, say, .22 Short, Long, or Long Rifle, or for bigger boys, .38 Special and .357 Magnum or .44 Special and .44 Magnum -- in the same gun and carrier? Also, how much shorter is .45 Cowboy Action compared to .45 Schofield (no, not really interchangeable even so, because the Schofield had a thicker rim).
Lizzard at 7:10 :)
Can you hunt deer or pigs in woodlands with this power load ?
What's the best way to cut down brass? A tubing cutter?
Can the carrier from online outpost for the 45 also be used for the 44 conversion? Couldn’t tell if that was what Karl used for his.
Yes. The same carrier for 45 Colt or 45 Special.