Quitting Yugioh?
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- [Streamed Live on 2nd August, 2024]
Original Video: • I'm quitting competiti...
Creator: / @sunseedjess
Stream: / joshuaschmidtygo
Main Channel: / @joshuaschmidtygo
VOD Channel: / @joshuaschmidtvod
Twitter: / gamebreak0r
Channel managed by: Tyl0o | / tyl0o
Music: Tidal Tempest Zone: Present (JP/EU) - Sonic The Hedgehog CD
#JoshuaSchmidt #stream #yugioh
Thumbnail person needs a raise.
Bro for real!
No way, this should be a hobby, outrageous to pay him more
My man tylo0 always cooking so bad
I thought we peaked at those Josh/Paleo ones. How foolish of me.
Edit: The "gigachad Josh" (from "He is back" stun video) is also incredible
@@babrad have u seen the burst one??
In my opinion, "bad formats" would be more endurable if the overall game was more budget friendly. Also the prize issue would've been lessened by making players spend less for their decks so that they don't make as much of a loss "investing" on a meta deck.
Just give us OCG rarity distribution in main sets.
They literally don't have a reason not do it. "pro players" should voice this to konami first, then the card design and prizing issues.
Give us OCG rarity distribution, stop the scam.
The same people will whine that their investments in decks cannot be paid back by playing or selling the deck afterwards. Konami tried to make a set where most good cards where low rarity (not the same as an OCG distribution system but still better than having a 500 euro engine baseline) and people shat on that set as if it slept with their mum
@@alexandertsamourlidis646everyone loved the rarity collection
They have a strong reason not to give us OCG rarities: 💰💰💰
Yes. Trying to get someone to start playing yugioh is almost impossible for this reason. "Oh you dont have 700+ bucks to burn on the best deck? don't worry you can play the third best deck for 300 or you can pay 100 for any of the multiple significantly worst decks" It is way too much money for something that you might not even enjoy, and even if you do maybe you wont in a few months when the format change
@@alexandertsamourlidis646 people shat on rarity collection 2 because it wasnt as good as rarity collection 1. People wouldnt care if the cards were meta and cheap.
I just want to point out that we haven't gotten a Structure Deck in almost a year, that's crazy.
It feels like the Fire King deck dropped yesterday. Couldn't believe it came out at the end of 2023
I distinctly remember the Fire King Set Dropping in December. It was the SD I most wanted because it revamped Fire Kings.
But the same can be said about "Deck Build Packs", the last one we got was Valiant Smashers, and we're not getting a new one of those until Q4 2024.
I would kill for a good structure deck that allows for an actual competent budget friendly deck. Fire king was great but its so expensive to build with the price of bonfires and the Diabellstar engine
December to early August isn’t “almost” a year but yeah it’s really weird
I know she said she thought this topic would be better unscripted but I can’t help but feel the opposite
The Wolf of Runick Fountain
LMAO
so nice to josh to tell us he ain't quittin after he quit
I think Pak was onto something when he said we should voice our opinions in the ycs survey. That way there’s tangible data on complaints instead of a bunch of tweets
Pak is exactly right
I think the thing that will impact Konami the most is not buying the product or turning up to tournaments so I think Jess is right to actually do that if she’s not having fun. But one or even three people doing that is only a drop in the bucket.
There's 2 main issues with surveys:
1. They aren't well advertised, or easy to find (at least in my region), the majority of players probably don't even know they exist.
2. The questions asked in surveys are often extremely biased to not facilitate real and constructive criticism to address the issues that need fixing. They are often fluff questions worded in such a way to get a desired positive response that is in favour of who asked the questions.
the main problem with this is,if majority of surveyers just dont make heavily well-construct opinion & naration of why this these things is bad and need to change (while also could benefit konami in some ways) , then they just ignore community survey like any other company
I would prefer it if all the content creators would host their own tournaments with price money. We could even play with our own banlist instead of the crap konami releases in order to make money. Lets go out and say f konami, we do our thing. Theres no need to fill a survey. Just ignore them. As soon as they loose control they will change their greedy behaviour faster than you could blink.
I think he ignores one big issue which is the amount of money you spend on a deck is absurd AND ALSO it is a ticking time bomb, because you know the banlist will end your deck in 3-6 months and then it's back to spending all your money again. The fact that he shades her for doing well with Plants just shows how he doesn't care about how unnafordable yugioh is even in a semi-competitive point.
It's probably because he comes from a position of privilege.
It's so fucking funny cuz he tells his chat to shut up about his financial situation, and then literally goes on to describe his position of privilege.
The lack of self awareness on his part is outstanding.
His sponsors regularly send him boxes of the newest set to open on stream and promote their site. He doesn't incur anywhere close to the absurd cost the majority of players have to pay to build the best deck. Of course he doesn't care, it doesn't affect him at all.
Josh has advocated multiple times for reducing the cost in game (ex. cards having multiple rarities), so I don't think it's fair to say that he doesn't care about the issue. It may just be something he has overlooked while thinking of the issue on hand
"Maybe the real treasure was the friends that we made along the way"
best coment
It is though. My favorite part of locals is how it feels like a second home.
@@ThatsSoGiorgio"My company is my family" energy. Yes, it's nice that you have become so close, but at the end of the day some people have a real family to feed. Prizing should be commensurate to the dedication and skill, and for a billion dollar company to not give good prizing at the highest levels of the game, is pretty disrespectful.
@@ElectronicCalifornia if you have a family to feed then don’t spend money on a trading card game, lmao. Either you have priorities or you’re free to play whatever you want. No one forces you to play Yu Gi Oh. Some duelist are well off and can max rarity their decks while still being able to pay all their bills and some of us are using payment plans to pay for the $50+ staples we need like a playset of Thrusts. The prizing should be better to make the top duelist motivated but I topped-second at a small locals a few days ago and my winnings was only $7 and some change. I was just happy to top with a strategy I had been working so hard on for the last few weeks. My second top this month. Nothing amazing of prizing but winning was what motivated me to go home and deck build for the next locals.
@@ThatsSoGiorgioif you’re using a payment plan to pay for tcg you obviously can’t afford it in the first place
Bro unironically pulled out "the prizes are the friends we made along the way."
Joshua's arguments make perfect sense... if you are a casual player. Go to a PROFESSIONAL League of Legends player and tell him that he doesn't need to earn money to play competitively. It's madness and pure idealism from our brother Joshua.
'Oh my god yes I love quitting I would die for quitting. This quitting is going to change my life and is going to be the best quit ever' -Joshua Schmidt 2024
I feel like Josh is coping a little with the whole shifter shouldn’t ruin your run thing. Maybe he hasn’t felt the pain yet from the current format, but clearly other very sophisticated and accomplished players are feeling it. And maybe it’s not shifter alone-maybe it’s shifter + tenpai field spell + fiend smith FTK and suddenly the variance of this once consistent card game is suddenly higher than it used to be
It wouldn't be quite as bad if the top decks didn't cost £1000. That's a huge expense for a hobby.
It costs 250 where I am for the core. And all the staples that make it 1k in price have long since been reprinted into the ground. So it is nowhere near £1000.
It’s actually more like £500.
And that’s for the best devk at the highest level of play.
People spend way more to be competitive in most things.
This is not to say it should not be cheaper, just if it is a hobby you do not need to spend that. And if you want to be competitive it isn’t actually 1k.
@@mrbubbles6468250 is still too damn expensive compared to other card game.
@@mrbubbles6468 You are forgetting the new fiendsmiths, chief. Back to over a grand, other decks around 500 bucks but solidly worse than snake eyes fiendsmith to where you are actively choosing to play an objectively worse deck
@@mrbubbles6468 250 doesn't even buy a playset of the fiendsmith engine
@@shaedeymamlas5496
When I said it was 250 I was refering to the Fiendsmiths.
I don’t play for prize support. I’ve never given a care for that really. But the printing process and the way they artificially inflate the price of entry (for top level strats) is what got me to quit. I understand that hobbies aren’t supposed to be free, but at a certain point they become to expensive. I can’t justify spending almost a grand every 6 months because Konami refuses to meet me half way.. I don’t want to be treated like a money cow, I don’t own a jeep, and will not be treated as such.
💯
You don’t need to spend a grand every 6 months.
The people that do are those at the highest end of competition and do other things to offset the cost, as is the case with every competative thing ever.
@@mrbubbles6468 what Is that argument? I enjoy YuGiOh because of the competitive nature of the game. Why would I not try and reach the highest level? So again I’m forced to shovel the initial 1k and unless I also happen to have the connections/expertise (skills that are now outside of the context within which I enjoy yugioh) I will then be forced to pay the near grand again because of unchecked power creep, and poor consumer retention strategies.
If you think that it is ok because a very small percentage of the top player base can pull those things off without being forced to re invest over and over again. Then I’m not sure we could ever agree.
And you are correct all sports/hobbies require an investment that has no inherent return. But as I said there is a point where it it’s not worth being disrespected as a customer so often, and so blatantly.
Totally agree and i'm in a real weird spot right now because i'm trying to get back into ygo after a strange experience.. I was playing from 2009 to 2012 dropped while i loved this game so much but my family was very poor so i only had very few not good decks and only played on DN and at 13 was thinking that i was good enought to play at competive level but even an optimal chain burn was like 120 euros and had no way to travel to events and even going to local was hard because in my town it closed that year and going to another town with no support was impossible.. Now i have a job and was relearning the game for 1 year and honestly think this game is even better then before but i dropped over 2k for staples only and 3 tier 2 or lower decks that i like and i dont know if i actually can keep up if i decide to be actually playing to compete. I know there are cheaper options that actually work and all but its really a hard hard work and time consuming to make a tier 2 deck work in a t0 format like this and playing the best deck is actually satisfing. Im planning to go to my first YCS at Bologna especially if the banlist will be good and the azamina cards will not be too much opressive so maybe i could find a good "budget" meta call ( less then 500 euros lol) that i enjoy playing. Its so sad because this game is so expensive, i dont even care about prizing i just wanna try to be good
@@alexandrubragari1537 indeed brother, similarly I had to stop playing because I wanted a car.. lol like I needed to make a new car payment, and this game was so expensive that I was instantly priced out…. I mean c’mon. If I were you brother I would continue to play on line. Make a friend group that will play competitively with you, and then if you still want to try am event then go and shoot. I’ve been the guy several times that goes states away with no friends, no back up, all expenses out of my pocket. Just to play at a competitive event. Some of us are dogs, and we WILL grind it out to make it happen. But it goes back to what I said. I’m over here John Wickin, doing what I go to do to be the best, but Konami won’t even help us. They continue to make the most viable strats the most expensive they can. They have poor customer retention policies. And tbh they think we are dumb at best, treat us like addicts at worse.
You seem like a younger adult with some sort of fire within you. So I want to say keep that flame lit, don’t over extend yourself trying to make up for what Konami refuses to acknowledge, and improve.
Yugioh will be 50 years old, we're gonna be swimming in power creep cards and this man will still be playing his paleos and runick variants with fountain finally at 3
Even with Fountain at three, there is no reason to play more than two.
@@Ragnarok540 The newly released (in 2045) Moneybeer archetype will let your opponent name a card and remove 2 copies from your deck, face down, at the start of the game.
@@user-iz7nu4wk3h that sounds kinda interesting ngl 😅
@@user-iz7nu4wk3hno, not banished face-down, back to the binder
@@unaffectedbycardeffects9152 Initially I was thinking about the cards being shred (thus money = gotta buy 2 cards every new game, not match; and beer = gotta drink some after that experience)
I think you've completely missed the point about "being rewarded for your efforts". You frequently bring up the cost and rewards should not be a factor in deciding whether or not you continue with a "hobby". That hobbies can be expensive. You bring up something like golf for an example. This is true, if you're doing something solely as a hobby then expecting a return on that hobby is unreasonable.
This is not the case for when you are competing. If i am competing in golf, i expect relevant prizing. If I am competing in golf too, the requirements for the equipment used are set much higher than if I was playing for just a hobby. There is a higher level of investment asked of you. When you compete in yugioh they are asking more of you. There are travel costs, higher investments in deckbuilding required to compete at the highest level, you should expect some competent level of reward. Imagine telling a professional or semi-professional tennis player or golfer that they shouldnt be competing for the prizing. It ofc shouldn't be the only driving factor, but it needs to be sustainable. Otherwise they shouldn't be expecting people to compete in the way that you would other card games or sports that can be self-sufficient.
Unless your "hobby" is "competing in Yu-Gi-Oh" it's not a relevant point to bring up.
His hobby _was_ "competing in Yugioh" right up until he lucked into this job, and the only reason it isn't his hobby anymore is a technicality (it can now be considered part of this job). That combined with the fact that prizing has (afaik) always been bad, thereby making competing in this game as more than a hobby impossible (barring considerable luck), is where his perspective on that issue comes from.
@@delta3244if that's how he viewed it then fine. But it's from a position of privilege where whatever his income was before this it facilitated the high level of investment to compete. For I believe the majority of players it's not a sustainable one especially with poor prizing.
Expecting prizing to recupe your loses is quite asinine, only a small handful of competitive players would benefit from it anyways. I agree the game is too expensive though, wish our market was cheaper like the ocg.
@@TinPrince It takes a ton of investment to get to the point where one is earning prizes in a competitive game. If financials are one's concern with this hobby, one is better off arguing that the game should be cheaper, not that the rewards (for people who have already payed a ton of costs to get good with no return on investment before they started winning) should be greater, because one who is priced out of the game will never get to the point where they win those rewards. Notice that Josh was arguing against rewards being a factor, _not_ costs. Costs get wrapped up in it, because rewards exist in the context of costs, but his point was that financial _rewards_ shouldn't be the point of a hobby. Had the point been that "Yugioh is too expensive" - had the point been about _costs_ rather than rewards ‐ then Josh would've responded to that point instead (and I expect he'd be supportive of that/express that he does not like how the game is so expensive either, and that he doesn't like the fact that it drives competitors away).
“The true prizing is the friend we made along the way” - Joshua Schmidt
35:40 rare Moment of Josh actually being angry
When you said that I expected more. He’s a very calm man 😂
@@ducky36F he usually is, so snarky comments like that seem unusual from him.
Josh is definitely the Diago of YGO
Bro, in my country if you want to COMPETE & play the best deck, literally cost 3months of salary (cutting living expenses)... While the top meta is changing every 3 or 4 months... The math doesn't connect, u have to spend more to consistently makes top?
Josh can said all of those cz he is the top 0.1% lucky man that can make enough money from his job & gain alot of sponsorship YGO related...
But let's be real, 90% of the community can tell that all Jess said is very reletable...
Facts
@24:50 Josh's is describing exactly what Kazuki Takahashi envisioned for Yu-Gi-Oh!
The only trouble is that the game's monetization cannot support his vision. If the game is about making friendships and having fun, and not money (allegedly KT's words are the reason that YGO does not offer straight cash prizes), then we also need a game where a viable deck is not hundreds and hundreds of dollars.
You can tell Josh has never played any sport at a high level. There's a reason why the NCAA finally got pushed to giving NIL to football players and now soon for hockey. Those Division 1 schools are given so much money from boosters (old boomer alum's that are loaded af) and yet the school is making that money because of the players and are now only starting to get a piece of the pie. Same deal with Konami, they're making so much money off of the players and LGS's that stock their product and yet what do they give back? Some OTS packs for locals and absolutely dick all to anyone except the winner who get a shitty vanilla, a trophy and a playmat. Thats like playing high level sports all your life and then going to play in the NHL/NBA/MLB/Premier league then being told " ok you dont get a contract and you have to pay for all your gear that you want including sticks/gloves/helmets etc or shoes/bats/gloves. Welcome to playing something for a hobby for such a long time that you get good enough but fuck you we dont want to spend our billions on your ass as a team owner"
Preach brother
You've given an extremely american example and am wondering why the German fellow doesn't get it? NIL doesn't really exist in European sports.
Difference is that is a sport and yugioh is a childrens card game. Nobody gives a fk.
@@SHAO_L1Nand the dude is using NIL as an example when it’s only been a thing for a few years in the USA. It’s like saying WHY DIDNT YOU GET IN ON BITCOIN BACK THEN, WHY DIDNT YOU BUY A HOUSE WHEN YOU WERE 2? Such hyperbole, NIL was a mistake 😂 it’s making young Americans feel like they actually are producing anything of value when it’s a butter churner in college 😂
@@exbelleenthusiast2315 Where exactly do you think sports come from? Sports are literally just hobbies and "children's games" that have scaled to a massive entertrainment business. At the highest levels of competitive gaming, hobbies become a sport.
*The Josh of Wallstreet*
I can't believe MBT would lie to us like that.
MBT will always tripple down on any take made by someone of the LGBT community, regardless of whether the take is nonsense or not.
@@mangavore7426 people like you aren't welcome here, leave
@@mangavore7426 And we love him for that
Forget about canceling Mr Beast, we need to cancel MBT asap
@@an2wei I mean, that’s fair. We all have a skew, MBT just wears his as a rainbow colored jumpsuit, which means sometimes he supports nonsense takes like this 🤷
I think Josh misunderstands what people's issue with the game design is. I love the game to death, there simply isn't anything that plays quite like it. Yet I still have some fundamental issues with Konami's approach to game design that do get progressively worse over time. Issues that aren't simply explained away by power creep. You can enjoy the game overall but still think there are issues that transcend singular formats.
It would help him understand if anyone were to ever articulate what those issues are. Not faulting the person who gave an unscripted opinion for not explaining everything in detail, but the video he was watching gave him nothing _to_ understand
She’s not talking about it as a hobby… she’s talking about it as a competitive player.
She got competitive because she likes the game. You dont compete to win €€€. You compete to play at the highest levels. You compete because it gets you a name in the scene. You compete because you are good at something and you compete because playing that feature match at worlds is THE shit.
You dont compete to get your money back. If something draws audiences and events make a company money (which YCSs dont earn konami Money) you will end up having prizing that correlates to the money the game makes you.
But just because you spend alot of money doesnt mean konami earns. How many buy singles and not product. The ones buying product dictate the second market and konami must make good cards rare.
Do you feel great pulling garbage secret rares?
@@Corey91666 At the highest competitive levels, hobbies become professions. The money matters because you still need it to live. If you put your time and effort into it crafting a skill, the money your earn prevents you from leaving to go spend your time working another job, because that would take away from your increasing your skill in the sport. So yes, you don't compete to make your money back, because you compete to make money so you can continue competing.
Also, what people fail to realize, is that it's not just a hobby, it's a business. One in which both the players and the company invest time and money into, both generate the profit, then that profit is distributed. In some cases, that profit is distributed in a way that can be seen as unfair.
If players choose to leave to spend their time and effort in a place where compensation is more fair, it's because they value their dignity and self-worth.
I hate the hobby argument so much. Any competition should have comparable payout. Regardless if it’s a “hobby”. Nobody is arguing you should get paid for a hobby, but for competition should 100% be compensated at a fair amount. Doesn’t matter if it’s card games, poker, hell anything that fosters a competitive tournament.
"Financials do not matter" - People, Rich (like Josh), 2024.
He's so entitled and bratty, talking like YGO should be an exclusive rich boy's club. Man gives off gross vibes, waiting to get #MeToo'd.
I think all the time and money invested into this, for a game console that’s near the end of its life cycle, a playmat and a couple packs of cards is sad lol. Topping with decks that compare to the price of my rent, that could very well end up “banned” or deemed unplayable due to newer releases, for that kinda prize? They for sure could do so much better even if the prize can not be straight up money.
I still don't get what people mean when they say: "end of its life cycle" as you've stated here.
I am not so sure they could actually. And when you factor in several of the top players get the rewards you described each event…convert that into money it’s worth and you realise Konami is giving out likely as much money as it can.
@@halodragonmaster switch 2 is coming out prob next year so it end of its life cycle
@@mrbubbles6468 look at lorcana or one piece that a bold face lie they a billion $ company they doing the bare minimum
@@halodragonmaster its the idea that the console is going to be replaced by a newer product pretty soon (which in this case the next switch is right around the corner) so the old products value will fall off a cliff
I completely disagree with Josh here, people aren't asking for prizes to be enough so that being a pro yugioh player is a sustainable career people just want prizes that is completely worthless and can atleast justify the insane amount of time and money put into it
have you seen how sharky people already are in this game just for clout? Imagine how bad people will start slow-playing/sharking if they have actual money on the line.
@@brianlauria Its not a good argument if people are already doing it
@@zettgundam6317 risk loving goes up with greater rewards. It's an economic fact
@@brianlauriaWhy dont you back that shit up with evidence then huh? Show me how sharky and nasty All the pokemon players are
@@kotkafer2292 I have a masters degree in Economics - if something risky is already being done, then increased potential rewards increases the risky behavior.
Fully agree with Josh here, however, I think Konami needs to address how accessible these cards are if they’re not going to improve prizing or pay for travel. You shouldn’t have to break the bank to top a tournament that you then won’t be able to afford to go to. Doesn’t make sense.
Also the fact that locals do better prizes than a major tournament.
As Josh explains in the video. If you top you get enough prizing to absolutely cover your costs. They can’t pay for 800 people to attend a YCS. You want to not have to lose money you are required to win.
@@kylegoodwright5874
It is not better. It’s better relevent to the amount of effort you have to put in.
It’s easier to beat 10-20-30 people locally and get £30 than it is to beat 800 people for £800.
The prizing is and has always been appropriate to the level you play at.
31:40 am i in the upside down world? the person that like minutes before said that COMPETITIVE ygo for him is about the memories and friends he made (literally friends we made along the way moment) is saying that a person wanting to be rewarded by her skill if they think that way, don't have the MENTALITY to COMPETE in a game??? Josh. you want ygo to be a hobby, play with your friends. same way you should expect to be obliterated for playing a BEWD deck in a regional, you should be expected to play under high stakes on a big tournament, stakes those that are compensation for such hard work.
Josh is an incredibly skilled player, i'll never say otherwise, but cash prizing is the body and soul for any COMPETITIVE game. "hobby", "competitive" "and professional" are 3 different things, and they should be treated as such. people in their homes won't watch a tournament because of the friends the players there make. viewers and competitive players want STAKES. creating higher stakes is better for konami as a company, yugioh as a game and the viewers and players of yugioh.
Everytime he says he doesnt care about prizing makes me wonder if he ever went through hard times with money at all in his life. Because the rest of us complain about the game being expensive because we cant just throw 10+ hours a day at a card game or hobby the way he can without it impacting either work or social lives.
@@RandomGuyCDNabsolutely agree, i live in Brazil and the price reference is the dollar. the dollar is worth more than 5x our currency. S:P is literally around 700 BRL R$. my point of reference for competitive games is Fighting games and though they still can't provide being a professional player by definition, there's a LOT more hype on tournaments and it's not only because there are buff men beating each other up, it's the stakes. people are gonna cheer a lot more for player over $100k than a nintendo switch FFS.
@@RandomGuyCDNHe earns his money with Yugi and can't speak bad about it and tries to gaslight us. Simple as that. If the games goes under, he lose everything.
@@RandomGuyCDN 100% he has a rich daddy
@@loavprod another great point, there are a lot of countries in south america/africa/east europe/middle asia where the game is proportionally 3/5/10 times more expensive compared to jp/eu/NA
Thanks for sharing your point of view (which I listened carefully and it gave me food for thought)
If it is true that the whole purpose of an hobby is having a good time, it is also important to point out that the current reward system proposed by Konami is inappropriate, regardless of the motivation that trives each player to play competitively. Offering a proper reward system is a natural and physiological stage that every card game and e-sport with a competitive circuit (growing bigger and bigger) go through. It is a greater incentive to push the level higher and higher. On the other hand, maintaining the prizes as they are (which pale in comparison with prizes offered in other trading card games) exposes Konami to the risk of losing other world-class players like Jess in the long run.
And she’ll be replaced by new players. And a lot of playets don’t actually remain at the top of the world for very long. As can be seen if you look at yugioh’s history
I understand that but it has always been that way. There was never a point in this game's history where the prize support was the draw here. Using prize support to criticise the game after playing it for 10 something years rings a tad bit hollow compared to her other reasons which seem more fair.
Prize support is an issue that does need fixing but its not a new or current issue. It has always been like this for the game so please lets not act like its a recent or new issue that just popped up 😅
Jess clearly loves the game. One could say the exagerative blanket statements in her video like "all your favorite players are quitting" really is just are an attempt to sway corporate attention towards the competitive scene and you have to give her attempt credit because these are really valid criticisms that inevitably need to be addressed. Out of all of the major playing card games yugioh receives the bare minimum in regards to it's professional player base and it's hard to argue otherwise... unless you really like the Nintendo Switch ig?
Ypu crunch the numbers the prize support probably comes out to about what a cash prize would.
I don’t think the TCG honestly has the cash or resources to give out more than it is with how Yu-Gi-Oh is set up buissness wise honestly.
Konami doesn’t care that much about pros they know that if a few quit others will take their place
Dooming will never get a company to change the ways Konami does things.
@@mrbubbles6468fam mtg has an entire HOF, $1M prize pools for their worlds, $250K prize pools for their pro tours. Its not the same. Pokemon regionals have $50k prize pools
@@mrbubbles6468 "I don’t think the TCG honestly has the cash or resources to give out more"
They literally have a money-printing cheat code in their hands called "ygo franchise". I would argue acquiring Switches from Nintendo is actually more costly than printing mega high rarity cards exclusively used for prizes so that the players/collectors create the "cash prize" out of thin air.
Imagine exclusive full art reprints of staples like Ash Blossom, a "Ulti Champion Rare" for the YCS winner, "top 32/64 Ghost Rares", "Collector Champion rare" for Regionals , the uncut starlight sheets that were giving to side events at 2022 now worth $20k. They worth pennies in production value while attendance would sky rocket potentially making YCS actually generate money instead of always costing money (needed advertisement for the game anyway)
I agree with a lot of the stuff said, but I think the point about following what makes you happy would mean a lot more if we weren't in a format where you have to drop $1k to compete at the highest level. I don't care about prizing or really the fact that we are in a meh format, just please give us OCG rarity system Konami I'm begging.
You don’t have to drop that amount. As was shown by recent tournaments. Sure you might not ein but to compete at the highest level is only slightly more than 3 Ancient Gear Structure Decks
@@mrbubbles6468But you stuck with Ancient Gear
Many player also hate Tenpai but use it because it's what they can afford.
@@mrbubbles6468Why you're against deck being cheaper?
I knew Josh would quit after becoming a Stun Runick player. It was just a matter of time.
Josh your completely wrong about hobbies making money or return especially at a professional level
I gotta question Josh. Why don’t the pro players start more of their own tournaments and orgs with sponsors? You guys can even do it over MasterDuel and save yourselves the cost of travel and we would definitely donate way more to the prize pool than any live event.
Honestly, we will donate to watch the best players duel. Watching you duel in MasterDuel against the best players in the U.S, EU, and other parts of the world for more prize pool money on stream is a better viewing experience than hearing about results through a live event that presents so many issues.
Plus, there can be an agreed upon banned/unbanned format to help bring variety. It is inevitable that Fiendsmith is going to take over the meta and recreate the same problems that will hit in-person tournaments.
I would love to hear your take on this post, because I truly believe yourself and the other pros have an opportunity to make the game a better viewing experience for everyone in the community.
people have tried, they haven't really succeeded
I mean, to be fair, no matter how you or I feel about the guy personally, Dkayed does have some success hosting MD tourneys, also ARG was at least successful for some time. I remember when I was a teenager I wanted to compete in ÀRG tourneys but just didn't have the capability.@@bluedemontr-whisperofwind-2296
@bluedemontr
I do not believe that is a good reason. If you apply this logic to life we would not have many advances. Also, ARG and other similar structures were made in an era that was not as accessible as YGO is currently constructed with Twitch, YT, and MasterDuel. No disrespect, but this reply that I have seen is pretty lazy and shortsighted.
I feel like if they tried they might get banned from Konami events, or even sued by Konami
@elizabethcruz7994 MD in the TCG has a US / EU IP that is protected. That is why you see so many tournaments with prize pools online and on Twitch.
The first point is a valid one, and yet very complicated. Pro Yugioh players are too attached to the game when it comes to in-person tournaments. They enjoy the thrill of it and are too invested into the physical cards that they have purchased.
There is also a sense of prestige and accolades that will more than likely be devalued if they commit to MasterDuel.
However, from a practicality perspective, the pro players will be saving themselves so much time and money by transitioning into MasterDuel and give the fans a better viewing experience with a chance to receive more sponsorships and money.
Maybe "all your favorite players" is meant as in her Yugioh bubble and therefore, her (perceived) viewers favorites.
I think she's not the greatest speaker and talked in a hyperbolic way regarding her and her bubbles perspective.
Plus, she was obviously not prepared and nervous while getting all this off her chest.
Yeah, she said that it was not an scripted video. And it was kinda stram of conciousness adjacent
Yeah but I don’t blame her for exaggerating a bit.
MBT should know better
@@geiseric222 You really expect that from Joseph? 😅
@@geiseric222yeah I think Jess did it incidentally but mbt absolutely was hyperbolic intentionally
Hyperbole means nothing if people reduce it to a cheap, handwavey excuse to cover your @ss when we say something that's blatantly misleading or an outright lie. It just means it's another word going the way of words like satire and ironic where they're basically dogwhistles that your trying not to be accountable or responsible for anything you say, but still say it.
This part of the stream was a great precursor to the podcast
I am a casual player so maybe my view is heavy skewed but the two arguments that I resonate with is the speed of the game and the price of the game. The best meta decks now are both *extremely* expensive and super fast and resilient to almost anything if they go first. Special summoning from the deck is exceptionally easy now, 1 card combos are common, and recursion of resources after getting board wiped is insane. And while I play the game as a hobby, it gets really tilting when I can’t play the game casually at locals without getting completely steam rolled unless I’m willing to spend a ton of money all the time and constantly learn new complicated deck lines that may or may not go through every hand trap I own. And I understand people hate lingering effects, and I agree with why, but against some decks, there’s literally almost no other way to even affect them otherwise. That’s just my 2 cents.
Can’t take Josh’s takes seriously he’s clearly blinded by his personal connection to the game to listen to criticism, like pretty upsetting to see someone as influential as Josh act like a child who’s favourite show was insulted, one of the hardest videos to watch Josh
Most of the criticism is just e-sport arguments (zoomer brained complaints), I can respect josh not giving in to that large audience and just expressing his thoughts.
"Weak mentality to compete" is crazy to say about a person who rolled through worlds. This guy is looney
I swear this guy has the worst opinions if he hears someone criticize Yugioh. With people like him, Yugioh will never get better
Skill issue.
@@marshalkagami Reading is a skill issue for u? Sure bud
Yes, unironically we need new people, new top players as the faces of this game. The old ones are giving the game such a bad reputation.
Because he disagrees?
YGO should be cheaper but it is a hobby. Competitive or not. Its not life relevant. Konami should make sure though to lower the games overall price because sometimes you can feel disrespected when you put in money to have your deck become absolete.
But i will add. If you buy top meta decks its partially your fault as well.
@@Auditor1337new players need to practice, get good, and if you want to beat Jesse Kotton, Pak, Josh, you’d have to beat a guy like me, who is essentially a zangief player. If you can’t even beat a guy like me regularly, one shouldn’t think about getting paid for gaming 😂😂😂
Several Tier 0 formats for the last few years means its good for the game? Ok i believe you.
If we go by what a lot of pro players think about Tier 0 formats, then yes
I mean, ignoring the fact there has been like 2 actual T0 formats and one of them was loved by competative playerd, yes sometimes they are good for the game
@@mrbubbles6468 It always depends on the gameplay from that Format at end of the day. Most people didn't like Kash format but loved Tear
@@mrbubbles6468 tear format was at least interactive and tear couldnt play through every single handtrap in the book. Cant say the same for fiendsmith
@@mrbubbles6468Kash was tier 0 and this format is different to last so that’s 4.
Josh is so blunt, I love it 😂
He is blunt while being very respectful, which is what I particularly like here.
It's called being German
It was a bit frustrating to listen to Josh take Jess's 2 primary arguments, "the direction of game design" and "Konami does not care about supporting their best players", and completely change them into something else.
Jess is not quitting because of "one bad format", she is quitting because Konami is repeatedly making bad game design decisions and not learning from them. They are continuing to print one card combos, unrestricted engines, omni-negates, floodgates, and nuclear non-engine, refusing to ban some of the existing ones, and they *BROUGHT BACK* floodgates in Protos and Colossus.
Konami has only just recently began to hit omni-negates and floodgates, but they are doing it presumably as pseudo-rotation rather than any higher design mantra.
Jess is also not quitting because "she isn't making enough money". She's quitting because the prizing is so small, worthless, and impersonal, and Konami has the means to do better and just isn't. She just used the hotel and travel as an example of how Konami doesn't care to make sure the best players in the game can attend tournaments designed to show off the best of the best.
And these Anotherverse prize cards are total garbage. They're completely unplayable because they're vanillas, the monster designs are unremarkable, and they're only in Super and Ultra rare. There's nothing to get attached to, nothing interesting about them, no lore, no thematic effect, nothing. And there's a bunch of each. Unique rarity or art versions of staple, fan-favorite cards like Ash Blossom and Zeus are a slam dunk, and the fact that there would be a bunch is a *good thing* because many would want to keep theirs. People are WAY more excited about Ultimate rares from OTS packs.
And to be honest, saying Jess doesn't have the mentality to compete because these things are hurting her enjoyment of the game is not just wrong, but borderline rude. She was perfectly fine facing full-power Kash while dealing with transphobic assholes replying to her posts and commenting on her videos. She is just changing how she interacts with the game because the physical, mental, and emotional commitment is not justified to her. She still loves the game, she's still one of the best players of the game, and she is willing to compete at the highest level again if these things change.
She didn't complain when she was winning...
preach!
It's not just borderline rude, it is rude.
@@zetokaiba5867 she got 2d place like 1/2 month ago, what are u talking about
@@zetokaiba5867 Because the format didn't suck ass at that point and the game has gotten progressively more expensive with less prizing and less EU events.
Idk, it feels like Josh cope. She mentioned that the direction of the game has been getting bad and I think most players agree that the power creep has been getting worse and worse and Konami are awful at decision making to fix their own mistakes.
And the prizing takes is just awful. Surely he has to see how hypocritical it comes off as someone who has monetized his hobby.
@@jasonrodriguez3618No. That just proves Konsmi and prizing really is not that much of an issue. Because Josh has made it so Konami does not have to give him prizes and he’ll make money off it regardless.
Lots of other people that compete do the same
The issues with this game have been here since Day 1. Having a few formats like this every now and again is nothing new and doesn’t mean the game is going in a bad direction.
@@mrbubbles6468 no it just puts money and free marketing in Konamis pocket for nothing in return from them. Just because people have put time and money in the game and received nothing doesn’t mean it should stay like that. It’s not sustainable and the only reason people are able to do it now is content creation. Using the argument that it’s a hobby and comparing it to golf also made no sense because there are different tears to the game and you get rewarded at competitive golf tournaments. A YCS is not a casual event, it is a competitive event that earns Konami and Yugioh a lot of money and exposure where you get to be “world champion” and should be compensated as such.
@@mrbubbles6468 again, you’re taking the quote out of context like Josh did. It’s not ONLY the format but the game design. The general direction for the past few years has been making more and more one card starters and easier combos and Omni negates. Not everyone enjoys that and Konami certainly hasn’t shown signs of stopping that trend.
Many people are though, so you'll have fewer and fewer people to play against. Not a sustainable model for Konami. I already stopped spending money on Yugioh, and honestly, I discourage potential new players and direct them to other games instead. This is deserved. You may like the product that Konami has turned yugioh into, but I certainly do not. Yugioh used to be something I really appreciated and enjoyed.
Every tournament keeps getting more and more players. If that’s what you define as unsustainable Konami absolutely does not mind.
@@mrbubbles6468It's simply because locals are dying, people who care about Yu-Gi-Oh have more incentives to go to big tournament to satisfy their need.
@@LS-qs9juLocals die every so often. Running a card shop is hard. Always has been. If you can’t get new players constantly eventuslly your older regulars aren’t enough to keep things open. And with everything being online now we are seeing physical stores close left and right.
@@mrbubbles6468 that's a recipe to kill a game. Locals are vital for games, new players are vital for games. If you cut the faucet on them it is only a matter of time. And konami won't restructure yugioh, it will can it.
Maybe then you'll stop doing tricks on it
The prizing is an interesting discussion. I basically completely agree with Josh but if there was better prizing then that would change alot of the motivations for players or would create a different motivation that maybe people think is already there. Prizing is only an issue for someone that quits when it's combined with a number of issues. No one quits the game only because of prizing, once you start going to events you know what the prizing is so if it was an issue for you then you wouldn't have gotten into the game in the first place. It only becomes another complaint when you become disenfranchised due to other reasons. It's almost a straw-man argument because it pretty much isn't really relevant at all.
If prizing was better and it made it viable to compete regardless of the format then it becomes an incentive to play even if you may have quit otherwise. The fact that prizing is poor just means if you dislike where the game is then it becomes harder to motivate yourself to continue to play unless you see something new or change to get you excited. This is a game where prizing is basically not a reason to start to play so then it's not a valid reason to stop playing.
Funniest thing about prizing is if you covert it into cash and realises several players get those prizes…they are giving out 1000s in terms of value
I feel like if prizing becomes better, than more people are going to be more desperate than they've ever been and start doing bad things. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be better prizing, I'm just saying that it go pretty bad.
People want their time and money to be respected and Konami is just spitting on its consumer base. They have so many rules about what you can’t and can’t do yet refuse to listen when people start speaking up and that lack of listening is what causes people to get bitter and jaded. End of the day Konami could and should do better but has absolutely no reason to do so.
Its good to know that Farfa has company in the office at Konami HQ 🙏
Why does josh seem so judgemental of jess's decision? he keeps questioning why she dislikes the format when she plays plants and with snarky comments like this: 35:37
Even the chat is dropping weird comments like here: 36:06 (the one that goes "can't play plants babyrage") and he doesn't call them out.
It's weird that he's so defensive of the game, it dismisses the point of jess's video, like maybe we should respect and listen to the opinion of the people that are quitting instead of being so defensive of the game when it's clear the company barely cares about it's players
He's got that snarky, dismissive, smug debate bro energy. Man wants his game to remain a rich-boys-only club.
Dude has the worst opinions whenever he hears something bad or negative about Yugioh. That's why i stopped watching majority of his videos since last year. He pretends as if he wants Yugioh to be better when deep down he only cares about his image to Konami
Loved this video Josh. Thanks for your input on the situation. This almost felt like a pseudo therapy session. Definitely made me realize I just need to be more thankful and just have fun.
"empty handed" = didn't get anything worth the trouble
like... getting a playmat, a pair of packs and maybe an old console doesn't even cover the hotel cost
When you covert that into money Konami it’s giving it’s winners loads of money for winning.
Just not in traditional ways.
@@mrbubbles6468 in comparison to lorcana, one piece, mtg, vanguard, pokemon, hell weiss gives better prizing than konami. If one piece which has been a card game for about 6 months now can give better prizing konami can afford better prizing too.
@@mrbubbles6468an almost 10 year old console is literally worth 20 dollars.
@@mrbubbles6468 no
i likes josh but i agree with her most of the time. getting a console from 2016 is a disgrace
To be fair, Josh agrees with that too
@@delta3244 well he is (at least) ok with the current situation. but its really bad. i play a hobby for fun but a tournament is a competition a tourney needs unique prizes. why not a case for the top 3 players. not a console for 200 bucks
Ein Hobby sollte erschwinglich genug sein, nicht mehr als meine Monatsmiete zu investieren um es spielen zu können.
MTG no longer add people to it's Hall of Fame.
Everyone thats talks about MTG now is used to the old tournament system where the HoF did things and WotC actually kinda gave a shit about the game vs Hasbro basically puppetting the company since investors found out how much money they were raking in over their other products like action figures.
@@RandomGuyCDN True magic is expensive, but WoTC is literally throwing prize money and cards at literally anybody who can play MTG well via arena opens (2000$) and arena direct sealed events (10x the entry fee in value ~250$) where they mail you booster boxes. Playing the yugioh TCG in comparison feels like Stockholm syndrome.
@@Shwa_Shwa42 that and the world champion is immortalized in cardboard for all too see in packs players crack open such as Yuta Takahashi who designed Faerie Mastermind and whose art is in his likeness
Imagine having a meltdown cause someone called you "rich" in twitch chat lmao You been in this community for 20 years and have never tried to voice the opinion of your community try doing something for once instead of telling the player base to just accept these shit ways of konami
accept the game/weak mentality/u just don't like the game/normal to be top 8 in world in something and win as a normal hobby
everything except criticising his work work boss komoney
I think the reason she’s making it look like everyone’s quitting is because she knows a lot of people are going to see this. With the amount of yugitubers talking about this specific video, there is no way that someone important (or someone at Konami) doesn’t see this and think “oh shoot! All our clout is quitting the game! We must change something!” Saying things that are exaggerated could potentially influence people into thinking one thing Yk? This is what I think
Of course when you make your living out of yugioh you won't be leaving. Your bias is showing very much in this video Josh. You sound like a Konami employee lol
Jess also makes money out of the game. And she even said in the video she isn’t quitting playing, just not playing at high level events.
@@mrbubbles6468 not at the same level when you’re a content creator who only makes yugioh content. Of course you’ll never admit that the game is in a horrible state because it will affect viewership. An uninterested community gives low views
@@MrWelsz’thing is dying’ or ‘i quit thing’ videos do really well. This is not the first time content creators have said such either. It hasn’t damaged them at all. If anything saying the opposite of what the audiance wants to hear is often more damaging.
Josh has also voiced issues with the game.
This honestly seems less like ‘josh can’t agree because it will hurt him’ and more ‘josh simply disagrees’
It does dmg them, konami keeps track of this stuff, and they can put the content creator in their "blacklist", which makes so they are less likely to get certain bonuses for supporting the brand/company, sich as being invited to certain events, getting free stuff and things like that.
@@neonoah3353 and most of those bonuses that they would have got are offset by the audience comfortably. It really isn’t that damaging. Certainly not to the point where it can’t be offset.
Okey, if we agree that yugioh is our hobi but what if we don't have money like some of the people to finance that hobi and be able to travel and play?
If we know that the priseing will be able to return our investment in decks that are 1k plus and travel and all of other staff like time to practise for big evets and, how can we be able to have yugioh as our hobi and have normal life? Especially for poor countrie people like I am. I think it's easy from your perspective to say such things but not everyone can agree with you. Maybe I am wrong, I love yugioh but that is how I feel rn
Then you play online in MD for free?
Or you realise you don’t need to spend the amount of money to compete that people insist you do and never have.
""I disagree that the game has been awful for years" proceeds to name every single deck that I hate playing against 💀
Well agov format was really good tho, you can hate tear or spright, kash was kinda a tear 0 but 1 book of moon and your rogue deck has a good game, but in agov you could play literally whatever you wanted
Best reaction and explanation man, great video
Ah can’t wait to see what bad take Joshua will have to all of this that people will applaud and agree with him for because he’s good at the game. Dude plays well but has some bad takes for someone so entrenched in the game and has such a massive voice in the community like how last year when the prizing talk happened again he said there was no problem with yugioh prizing and it should never be monetary because it would “change the competitive spirit” and he was doing fine so didn’t see a need for the change. Like dude you’ve monetized the hobby so that all you do is play yugioh and live off that from streaming to topping in tournaments to making CZcams videos, your the 1% while other people have partners,kids,family and jobs which dictate part of their lives that make it hard to dedicate more time to this hobby without some kind of incentive to show for it in some monetary way. Not to mention the cost of a “competitive” deck skyrocketing plus paying for hotel, travel, etc.
EZ to be good when you have more time and not as much expenses as everyone else in the west. Not everyone can blow 10+ hours like pak or Josh to test for events or to get better. Some people get to go to like 1 locals a month because their life/job doesnt allow anymore than that.
Josh made himself seem like a bootlicker in the way he defended the game as if his own well-being depended on it. I get it, I started with Starter Deck Kaiba myself and love the game, but calling Jess out for having wrong takes while she is making objectively correct statements just shows that your emotional attachement has won over the will to criticise the game. When she said that the increasing power level was getting out of hand, that is nothing but a correct statement as the amount of 1 card starters has increased more than tenfold over the last 18 months, the quality of starters in your average meta deck has spiked so drastically and the secondary functions of archetypes (examples: Snake-Eye = resource generation, Tenpai = damage output) have become so strong that those factors by themselves outdo meta decks from just 3 years ago by an incredibly high margin that is not sustainable.
Also, her argument about the luck factor, while being subjective, is also not completely wrong as an increasing amount of 1 card starters with an proportionally increasing amount of handtraps increase the variance during a tournament. We have never seen so many unplayable hands due to having 4-5 handtraps and since Spyral format I haven't seen so many players just staring at each other hoping to draw something playable to finally not be stuck anymore. And due to this equilibrium of unplayability the few deck-specific blowout handtraps we have stand out even more than usual, like Shifter for example. The overall design direction of the game, starting with Locci and Circular, has been pretty bad in the last couple years. Well, at least the staples were mostly great, though.
Yugioh content is his source of income. I don't expect him to be anything but a bootlicker.
Maybe he just disagrees with her points.
@@geek593many people whose source of income is this game shit talk the game constantly. It has done nothing to their ablity to make the game their source of income.
@@mrbubbles6468 His amicable relationship with the company is one of the reasons they treat him so well. The people who shit talk the game are the ones who are capable of entertaining outside of being the best player who streams.
“People are not excited for the game anymore” me who is excited for new mermail, shark and battlewasp support 😂😂😂
When it comes to the new archetype design issue I have is that the 1 card combo decks lead to a hand trap mini-game where you have a format full of decks with 15+ hand traps hand trapping eachother into submission and the first player that is able to combo off wins the game.
Much of this comment section has such a menial mentality. "Oh thank you, blessed M'Lord Konami, for allowing us to play your game, for making you millions and millions, for bringing attention to your product on the global stage, we are not worthy!! Please take my partner in Prima Noctem too, we would be most honored!"
Get real and demand something for your labour, yes even in a hobby you should expect it to be balanced for everyone, not just the top 1-5% of (pro) players
Thr comments seem 50/50 if not more on Jess’s side than Josh’s.
And the majority of Jess’s complaints and a lot of the top players are that the game does in fact not cater to pros and focuses too much on the people that just play this game for fun
@@mrbubbles6468 1: good
2: no, the complaints are about unhealthy design and the general "middle-finger to all of the TCG behaviour" that Konami is giving
Well, when you tie your finances to something like this is not like you can just choose to quit or take a long break...
I mean, you can…
@@mrbubbles6468 I mean if you want to be homeless and starve sure or get a job flipping burgers
@@alkhemia23 this is as simple as not making stupid financial decisions in the first place.
@@alkhemia23In the case of Josh, he could get a job as a Software Engineer, but he probably would prefer not to.
First time disliking a Josh video, and amused how he dare to preach from his ivory tower. "Yugioh is a hobby" bro you are earning money from THIS HOBBY; you ain't a random streamer playing CoD one day, Amongus the other and Apex the next day. your whole career has been based on YGO. wake tf up. not to mention his eurocentric arrogance to say "You knew is expenseive, its your choice to spend it... or just do other thing". Like bro, I understan Konami is also paying you to defend them, but bro, other parts that are not first world countries and the economics are unstable, the card market is extremely high. Also "I obtain the cards by myself" dude, your white forest engine was given to you by one of your sponsors. Also if you are participating in anything that has "championship" in it's name, it's not longer a hobby, it's a competition.
Yeah. And everyone else can earn money to doing what Josh does. He talks aboit it, when he started his audiance was tiny.
He got goving the cards by sponsers? Of course he did. Because he makes them enough money to cover the cost of just giving him the cards. It’s still all down to everything he does.
And a hobby can be competative.
What Jess et al want is for it to be a professional job such as Poker. It is never going to be that.
Jess is a huge loss to the competitive community. And Josh can say what he wants, but Konami treatens their players (and especially tcg players) like sh**. Konami should celebrate their best players, for marketing reasons alone. format is not the problem here. Konami is just being stupid towards the TCG players :/
edit: It's not about any financial gain. It's about honoring the players who put their time and passion into this game. The players want to be respected by Konami
Respect is earned, not given. Making a video of you quitting like if konami owes him anything. Jessica was featured on some konami projects so i dont get how he didnt get any respect tbh
I'm personally taking a small break this format, but I will NEVER quit this game, EVER.
I've never ONCE earned a dime for playing this game.
I love this game. Always.
I completely agree with you Josh, PLEASE be our voice!
Omg he got so defensive so quickly. Like, she spilled some tea about the game and how unfun it can be, which is true. He started shading her and MBT for saying something that has been a widespread opinion for years now.
Because he made money with YGO and have to has that opinion.
@@TheHolyDishwaterHe doesn’t lots of people make money off this game and have the opposite.
@@mrbubbles6468 Mate he is sponsored while being a successful yugi-tuber, his JOB is to keep eyes on both himself and on yugioh.
I do not agree with a lot of things
First of all, other games gives you other rewards too (like friends, new experiences,etc) AND good prizes. So I don't think that it's wrong to compare the behavior of Konami.
She said that she went empty handed for getting top 8, and that's true , the entry prizes were because she won at euros. Also, this prizes are not easy to sell or even were I live nobody will pay them or pay the real value.
I'm my country Yu GI oh it's very expensive, that makes the game mostly a pay to win because if someone can pay fiendsmith snake eye and goes against a 100$ or less deck (like purrely, exo, Rikka) will mostly win, and the person who can't afford that will not try to compite because the prizing is not motivating to go a big event. And this is not a diner, this is just so much expensive so that part feels greedy and unfair.
I've seen the best players of my city just leaving the game because all of this because other games are a lot more sustainable, you can't ignore the cost of the game if it's that expensive and doesn't allow you to even recover a part.
Also this is a problem of a lot of formats, if you even want to compite you will have to spend a lot just to get hit or powercreep almost in the next set , were you will have to spend a lot again .
This makes really hard to get a lot of people, when they know the cost of Yu GI oh the immediately say no. Or if they try they realize that is a waste of money fast and leave.
I will conclude reminding that every being does something for a reward, and if you think that hours of study, practice, hundred of dollars could be rewarded with just good experiences , just makes the game for a few ones. I think that balance sounds like when you have a really bad partner but you stay with a few good things just to justify that you are still with them.
I agree with Jess that all of these factors makes the game motivating, but it's just my opinion :D hope it gives other perspective since my reality is different, still think that your opinion as a very old player is important and gives other perspective to the community :D I think Jess video express thought's that most of the community have and want that to change
How self absorbed do you have to be to declare "all your favorite players are quitting" when it's basically just you. Lol.
I think this kinda money focused world view is a very american thing
this video was basically "wah i cant play plants/gouki/isolde and get free wins anymore" just dont suck......
Make everything a hard opt, ban all lingering effects other than restrictions, AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP MAKING ENGINES THAT DONT LOCK YOU. Tear would have been completely reasonable if they couldn’t make a baronne with spright elf pointing to it.
100 + hours of playtesting/tinkering, card & travel costs, frustration with the format and for bad pricing + an impression that Konami doesn't care.
I can understand her and it certainly doesn't help if you say that her mentality isn't right for competitive play since she topped several times. Her concerns are real and valid (even though she articulated it badly) and prices is not her only argument. Her not playing anymore definitely is a loss for Yugioh as a whole.
The prize is the friends we made along the way?
Kamal, Pham, hani, Jess, urena, couch. A lot of big names. Some could argue that’s most.
Bro those pros are irrelevant to me and a lot of newer players lol
@@Fr3d0-1 to "you" but maybe not to others...
Yeah josh was disingenuous discrediting her statement, that's a lot of big names
@@Lich_V.Compared to the best players in other sports/esports, the best players in yugioh are relatively unknown.
32:04 Stopping being poor moment
Or just manage your money better. You don’t need every card at max rarity etc.
@@mrbubbles6468 bro im fie with the concept that if u cant afford a game/hobby expensive like this u shouldnt blame the game for that, but is true that is just a card game and not a motorbike convention, is just paper, for the health of the game yu gi oh needs more casual players
In this video, man with a vested interest in people continuing to play the game and a vendetta against Plants reacts in poor faith to an earnest video.
Josh talking about prizing all the time as if this is the only problem with Yugioh. Most players will never top anyway and prizing doesnt matter for them. Its just on top of all the other bs someone has to endure this game and its just not worth it anymore
The reason pize support comes up so frequent it is one of the core issues people complaining about the game bring up.
@@mrbubbles6468 That's a bit circular, isn't it? "It comes up a lot because it's one of the main things people bring up?" Or is your point something more like "it's one of the first things that people who are generally annoyed at the game think to say, (because it's so obviously laughable where other things are debatable, because it's been brought up so often it's on top of peoples' minds, or some other thing)?"
Josh saying that you shouldn't be paid as a professional because "it's just a hobby", while Yugioh content is his actual career is so ironically rich. Real "Let them eat cake" moment from the GOAT.
Sorry not everyone competing can have their expenses covered by chat and sponsors.
You do realize that Josh has had this mentality starting from before this became his job, right? Yes, he's very lucky that his words don't apply to himself _anymore._ He's acknowledged that. That does not somehow make him obliged to pretend that, were it not his job, he would see Yugioh any differently than he did before it became such. His opinions haven't magically changed because he got incredibly lucky & has the opportunity to do something that is impossible for most people (play Yugioh for a living).
@@delta3244 Yes, I know he acknowledges it, but it doesn't make my critique any less valid.
@@MrCoolmaster12345 Nice strawman, but my point was that his opinion was no different _before_ he got lucky in this way. The luck is irrelevant to his stance, it is only relevant to the fact that we heard his stance in this format (i.e. as a video)
EDIT: fixed a typo that changed the meaning of the last sentence, and clarified what I meant by "this format"
@delta3244 How is one sentence saying my critique still stands, a strawman? Please read before spouting debating buzzwords without knowing definitions.
@@MrCoolmaster12345 (note: single quotes are paraphrases, double quotes are proper quotes)
That sentence makes a strawman of my position because you didn't _just_ say that your critique still stands. If that was all you said, I'd disagree with you, but you wouldn't have made a strawman. What you said in full was "yes, I know he acknowledges it, but it doesn't make my critique any less valid." In saying that "[the fact that Josh acknowledges his luck] doesn't make my critique any less valid" in response to my criticism to your critique, you are implying that I said or implied 'because Josh acknowledges that he his lucky, your critique is invalid.' If I had said that, you would be right, but I never did. I said that 'because Josh had the same opinion before he got lucky, your critique is invalid.' The line about Josh acknowledging his luck was quite possibly the least important one in my reply, and you presented it as if it were my argument. That is a very clear strawman of my position.
This video feels really out of touch to me personally. I love your stuff Josh but this feels extremely apathetic. Your experience is definitely a lot different from most and you kept brining up all the things you were fortunate to get out of playing like community, Twitch, fame, love, but these are extremely specific to you. For her, playing absolutely has been unrewarding. The game for her hasn’t felt fun and she explained what made it FEEL that way for her. And a lot of people do feel similar to her. The way people feel about things is extremely important! Why would you play a game that’s balanced on paper but feels bad to play? You probably wouldn’t. We need to care more about how things feel.
Which is why Josh brings up the point that Jess seems to be looking st this through the wrong focus. And is too concerned about winning and not on the fact that it is a hobby and fun.
She seemed very dejected that her and her friends weren’t abke to continue topping for example.
Of course you are going to burn out when you’ve equated fun with winning at the highest level if play and then don’t manage it for the first time in ages
I don’t think it’s about money, it’s more about gratitude, and as a professional musician it looks very obvious to me bc my life is based off of my audience. Yugioh lives off of their players, if we weren’t there, the game would stop existing. At least, make a move that shows us a little bit of gratitude, a little bit of recognition and reciprocity. Even at a hobby level, this things are like a symbiotical relationship, and we r just getting milked on like just numbers. Konami does not treat us like ppl, we r just numbers.
The people working at Konsmi for this game have always seemed nice. The players have never treated the people behind this game well on the whole.
@@mrbubbles6468 yes, it was so nice from them to release fiendsmith 3 days before nawcq to force everyone that wanted to play the event to open tons of product to get the core bc there weren’t singles available. Yes it was so nice from them to shortprint like crazy thrust in the maze set or to shortprint the entire nekroz core when it was tier 1. Yes it was so nice from them to use the banlist as a selling machine and not as an acutal balancing tool, and if u think that’s not true, why do u think they released Protos and colossus. For thunder dragon? Nah it was bc shortly after they were gonna release the ritual beast support and it gets a huge boost from those floodgates being legal. Yes it was so nice from them… And I could start yapping about tons and tons of more examples but I think I made my point clear. They see us as money machines, not as actual persons. Just like the pharmaceutical industry or fast food chains. It’s all about marketing and making the most profit possible
@@mrbubbles6468Nah they haven’t been nice in the slightest. Or does it seem nice to you to shortprint thrust, or nekroz as a way to ensure we are forced to open tons of product as a community? Does it seem nice to you to release fiendsmith 3 days before nawcq to enshure the product sells like crazy bc the ppl who want to participate in the event NEED the fiendsmith core? Does it seem nice to you to release colossus and Protos, and keep shifter around just to be able to sell the ritual beast support? Does it seem nice to you to print the only playable deck in valiant smashers (vanquish soul at the time) with almost every card as an ultra rare? Does it seem nice to you to make a custom card for the tier 0 engine as a tag exclusive to make it accessible for every fking deck with just 2 bodies on board? bc yes only closed moon with necroquip is full fiendsmith combo. And now tell me that were nice moved and not just decisions to milk more money off of us. Like cmon
Bro playing an instrument is just a hobby and you want to make money off of it? That’s kind of sad /s just using the logic from the video
@@PyckledNyk playing an instrument as a job is like designing cards as a job. If we r not here, u don’t have music to hear, and ur life is sudently way shittier. If we don’t get paid for it, u don’t have your music to hear when going to the gym, u don’t have the music u hear at parties. Would you tell John Williams that he does not have to get paid bc making music is just a hobby? Would you tell actors in the films you watch for enjoyment that they shouldn’t get paid? Art has been a job since the greeks and Roman Empire and if it wasn’t for musicians, actors, painters, animators, dub actors, script writers, film directors… you wouldn’t have entertainment to consume in your free time. it’s not a hobby if it generates a consumible asset. Making music is a job, hearing it is a hobby. The musician is not the yugioh player, the musician is the card designer and my life revolves around making you happy, just like the card designer. He designs cards for you to enjoy them and I make music for you to enjoy it.
The GOAT has spoken
The man activated all the floodgates on this argument need more savage Josh
Borreload Savage Runick Duelist
@31:30 this is the difference between champion mentality and everyone else. I understand the frustration but what Josh is saying, think about athletes like kobe bryant. It's always about just being the best & improving. That's the prize. I understand we play for different reasons but if that prizes are the reason, then this happens. You will be quitting sooner rather than later. Can you call your self competitive if you quit?
While I agree with Jess on many points, I believe she is confusing the quality of the game with personal burnout. Burnout is a common human experience that we all can face in our jobs, hobbies, and personal lives. Does Konami need to make some changes? Absolutely!! However from a personal perspective, taking a break can provide clarity and reveal that maybe you are pushing yourself a little too hard for the wrong reasons. As Joshua says, Yugioh is ultimately a hobby. Viewing it as more than that can lead to a toxic mindset.
What’s crazy is a large portion of the yugioh community is losing their mind over prizing when we realistically aren’t topping major events and getting said low effort prizing. Not to say it doesn’t matter but there are more…applicable reasons as to why people are frustrated on this game, but for 60% of us the top 8 prizing at worlds is a non issue for everyone who is not consistently in the top 8 at worlds lol
I agree so much with Joschua Schmid on the hobby take, because I feel like the Yugioh creator always had this in vision. It should be a hobby and not evolve into something more serious. Right now some people making it about pricing cards, one of the reasons some cards are as expensive as they are is not only if the card is rare or not, has a nice artwork but often its about strength. We all are too much focused on, searching for "the strongest card" we can get our hand on. I think as a competetive player it can be seen as a "of course I kinda have to" you cant keep playing the cards from 10 years ago, of course. A card game needs new cards and new rules and mechanics to stay interesting. Some people prefer change, some people not. Thats why old formats are so popular.
The only thing, and that people really need to understand about card pricing is that in a free market the price is created by the amount of available cards and people wanting to have this card. I see a big problem in the sense that people are became almost too competetive and stopped playing this game for what it was designed, to have fun creative time playing with friends enjoying all aspects (lore, memes, new strategies) there is so much to discover but people just focuse what is "the best". Of course I am not against people taking it to an esport level... my point stays, we also have to think how a hobby usually goes.
Nice The Fabled Unicore as a Duality target 👏🏻👏🏼👏🏽👏🏾👏🏿
I’ll be honest, I stopped playing yugioh and picked up one piece last year. Do I play it to win money? No. But when the entry level financially is so much lower, and the output for potentially doing well is so much higher, it stands to reason that yugioh is falling behind other tcgs.
Not to mention that the gameplay has been declining for a long time, it’s nice to at least have the CHANCE to earn something worth the investment you made, or at least exclusive to keep, like a serialised prize card etc.
These games at competitive level are essentially E-Sports, so whilst you shouldn’t expect to earn a second income, when other card games are offering people the chance to earn exclusive prizes why can’t yugioh do the same?
Yugioh fan base has Stockholm syndrome, just because as you say it’s “always been like this” doesn’t mean it can’t be better. You apply that logic to politics or world events, is exactly the reason positive change in the world is so sporadic these days.
I love yugioh, but I have no incentive to play it anymore. Spend £500 plus on a deck just to compete? Why do that when I can play something else for all the aforementioned reasons. Just my 2 and a half cents
I picked up Shadowverse Evolve and Commander for the same reason as you. Prizing doesn't matter when it doesn't feel like I'm being ripped off at the door. I'll gladly buy a $100 deck to have fun with people who have the same set expectations. But Yugioh being $500-900 decks to get nothing, not have fun, and have to play against people who are constantly on edge about their decks being banned out or reprinted before they can cash out just isn't a good vibe. Everyone has a semi-pro mentality in Yugioh and casual play doesn't exist outside of timelocked past formats.
The teason yugioh likely can’t do the same is probably due to restrictions on them that aren’t on other gamed I’d wager.
I don’t think the TCG has the ablity to do so to the degree people seem to want.
@@geek593 you summed up my thoughts perfectly.
@@mrbubbles6468 such as what? No reason we can’t have mixed rarity sets like the OCG for a start. Valuable prize cards is such an easy fix.
Repairing the game on the other hand is less simple. But a start would be to stop printing generic engines that we as players know will be on the ban list in 12 months time. Most games last one turn these days, interaction generally goes as far as what handtraps you have. It’s broken as an experience. It’s not something I want to admit, it’s my oldest and fondest hobby. But the game needs open heart surgery, and we all know that’s not happening.
It’s funny that everyone who switches card games starts by mentioning it’s easier to win lol
Better pricing would be better if you want new yugi players. Healthy or not but i dont see much younger people start yugi
The game could have a dice roll based archetype be meta and Josh would still say the game is not RNG. Running so much defense for the game to the point of defending the Kash format is crazy work.
The latest podcast is so awkward because Farfa clearly siding with Jess. And his argument is about the older you are, your priority will change so you will hit a time where you can't justify to spend on expensive hobby.
Slowly but sure if the game keep expensive as now (even non meta is expensive compared to meta deck in other game), most non pro adults will leave and at the same time Yu-Gi-Oh won't gain younger fans because either they can't afford it or their parent think it's too expensive for a hobby.
@@LS-qs9juYu-Gi-Oh won’t gain younger fans not because of the price but due to lack of anime.
@@LS-qs9ju100%. If they did the OCG rarity system that would literally fix a big problem in YGO. Won’t fix everything but it can make people feel better about spending money on cards because they can build what they like, not what they could only afford
Getting a worlds invite is an incredible reward, free paid for holiday to japan and the bigest ygo event of the year
I couldn't agree more with your points Josh. I also feel like if you get a hobby that you just genuinely enjoy for how it makes you feel engaging with it, then the money you spend is worth it and the money you make or don't make shouldn't matter so much that it dictates if you'd still engage with your hobby.
People can make the argument about competition and and being properly rewarded and all that as much as they want but at the end of the day, if you win a huge event and get no financial gain from it and that makes you think about quitting, you're just not not viewing it as a hobby or something you love anymore and then at that point you might as well quit instead of just dragging yourself thru the mud and complaining all the time.
Some people are just coded different and can't think about things that don't make them money. It's a sad way to live but that's what they know and their minds won't be changed.
44:00 He actually want us to believe that YGO is a hobby. 😂