Could StarCraft 2 EVO mod be the future of competitive StarCraft?
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
- Brood War Zerg units that didn't make it into StarCraft 2 - • Brood War Zerg units t...
Brood War Terran units that didn't make it into StarCraft 2 - • Brood War Terran units...
Brood War Protoss units that didn't make it into StarCraft 2 - • Brood War Protoss unit...
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Sources:
1. ESL Masters Spring 2024 EVO ShowMatch - • ESL SC2 Masters: Sprin...
2. SC1 vs SC2 SUPERMATCH - czcams.com/users/livesnx0tLcJ... - Hry
Brood War Zerg units that didn't make it into StarCraft 2 - czcams.com/video/_U_RA5uUQYQ/video.htmlsi=RbdQ6UF_gCUeYJUE
Brood War Terran units that didn't make it into StarCraft 2 - czcams.com/video/NQAtYp2fupg/video.html
Brood War Protoss units that didn't make it into StarCraft 2 - czcams.com/video/Zn2WWvrcrfk/video.htmlsi=7EYAO9x_t9IwKJNz
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Hey, thanks for taking a look at our mod. I feel like this is a pretty good concise summary of how the SC1 vs SC2 scene is going currently. We appreciate the encouragement as well. There is more Evolution Complete to come though, SC1 vs SC2 is only one form of the mod as a whole.
Do you guys plan on evolving the look of the mode proper in the future like tweeking the look of the units and buildings for the Sc1 version of the races like u did with the HQ building etc? That would be really cool and help differentiate the armies on the battlefield.
BASED
Youv done a good job.
wp!
How about making a "Vanilla EVO" mod and a "Competitive EVO" being the Vanilla the default BW units and the Competitive one with buffs that does not change the "gameplay" at all, like Dragons Having more range/damage, Vultures ressuply mines with cooldown/costing minerals/vespane, etc...
I got back to SC2 due to this mod and I'd love to see some championships of it.
Since it's on a newer engine, just some tweaks could make the game more balanced.
The idea is great, just need to be more polished, soon Blizzard will recognize this mod as an official stuff, trust me.
Amazing job with this mod btw.
BW mod is super cool, I think balancing can be eventually worked out though it could come at the cost of the originality of the sc1 units, the biggest factor which can make it harder to use is the lack of a proper ladder system
BW just need 1 expansion to equal SC2, because the BW factions is missing a few units (ex. like the Diamondbacks and Gunship for the Terran, Roaches, Broodmothers and Infested Marines for the Zerg, and lastly Sentries, Immortals and even Mothership for the Protoss) ☝.
Yeah, without automatic skill based matchmaking it's kinda doomed to not have recurring players.
@@JadeSune Oh, I wouldn't say it's doomed, only that it will be much harder for it to survive long term. It would simply take more passion from players and modmakers to keep the scene alive. The SC2 editor is powerful though, perhaps there could be some way to make a pseudo-ladder for it.
quick question: is going to custom - lobbies and finding/creating a game (with sc: evo mod ofc) the only way to play with other players?
maybe not change the units but change the timings? you dont need to change scourge to counter liberators you only need them to be faster to get. But will, then you have the problem of ZVT with mass muta to early
We need to think out of the box to make this mod work for competitive play. I don't think it's possible to balance all of the matchups. But instead we should explore alternative tournament formats such as race drafting before each map.
Well technically this is still all new. Kind of akin to how Dota got started. It's kind of the wild wild west and no one really knows how to play said match ups which plays a massive factor. Like theory crafting if sc1 zerg gets the scouting info needed that Lib push like in the video would have been stopped cold.
If you just give the BW races the macro mechanics from SC2 it would go a long way without destroying identity.
I think it will be the same as Starbow, people will like it and try at first but then fade out... specially when there is not a Rank system automatically to play as the SC2 Ladder or Unranked based on MMR
This, 1000% this. Starbow was straight up better than SC2 imo, but without ladder/automatic matchmaking it's doomed to not see recurring mass play.
@@JadeSune nah, Starbow flaw was being too focused on micro, which made it extremely unfriendly game
Splitting (or combining) the 3 factions into 6 is a great way to keep things fresh in the match up.
It's probably going to end up being a demographic/political question: if enough people can coalesce around one version of balance using the BW assets, I think it stands a chance.
i miss going online and playing the sc1 broodwar team micro arena.
It may have a future if the brood war balance is done right (patches and frequency), which is VERY hard to achieve at the moment. But crossing my fingers though. Never had this much fun watcing SC games ever since the peak days of SC2 and when I briefly go into Brood War again.
0:34 Oh hey I recognize that thumbnail!
Great content man, this mod has been a lot of fun to cast
I think it would be better if it were only SC1 races compete with each other. In short, it's a SC broodwar in SC2 engine. The challenge is to balance the game when the units (e.g. dragoon) have better pathfinding, better unit control (e.g. SCV auto repair, stimpack & heal inside bunker).
StarCraft 2 EVO incorporated into the main game would be great. The only problem is the Mineral resources needs to be uniform just like HOTS/WOL/BW , you can already see some of the newer maps are not that good for the Brood war races and it disturbs the normal pace of the game. Overall the BW races are more glass cannon races in both defence and attack. The Only gameplay changes that should be alloed are the Spellcasters and their spells like lockdown. I have never seen Duels before between BW Ghosts vs SC 2 Ghosts - EMPS vs medics and Lockdowns vs tanks is so much fun.
I love this channel. Thanks for these videos!
I think the mod is great and I loved watching the show matches. I redownloaded the game, got my cousin to redownload the game, and bought the classic skins for the hatchery, ultralisk, and hydralisk because of this mod. I wish it were as easy to find and start a game as 1v1 games under versus though. It’s not something I feel the average player stumbles upon in the menus, they have to go look for it and that hinders its potential imo.
This must be an official matchmaker mode and AI for PvE enjoyers
I thought brood war Zerg larva and eggs were supposed to have 200 base armor?
They should make a mod to play the coop-commanders against each other in 1v1!
I remember that april fools mode and it was just Raynor and Zagara destroying your economy before getting even an expansion.
it already exists and it's easy to find
As much as I like the ideea I must recognize it is a bad ideea. Tipically pvp in any game is thought with balance in mind and the coop comanders arr anything but balanced. Any pvp game between comanders would either finish before 5 minutes or they would just transform into a MOBA
Stalkers are better than dragoons? this is at least debatable
For sure. Dragoons have more HP, range and damage. Certainly better in a death ball, but worse for hit and run due to the lack of blink.
Game more slow, + units = New SC 2 Thanks.
I'd still like to see the beta version dragoons, which looked more like the dragoons from sc1, as well as larger archon hit fx such as you see in the campaign
Better to use the official Dragoon model rather than some low definition invention by some modder.
I don't think balancing is possible unless it adjusts based on what race you play against, which I am not sure that is possible. Otherwise, you stray to far from it being Brood War.
That said, (and I know blizzard will never do with because they can't profit off it nor do they care about fans) it would be cool if they added an option to play Ladder of just brood war races in sc2 engine. Then have a balance team for it like they have for sc2 now. it would be interesting to see if any brood war players would play it or if anyone would come back and try it. Keep in mind it would just be Brood War vs Brood War. i played Brood War when I was young. It was my first RTS ever, but now it's just hard to watch for me compared to sc2 pro-scene. SC2 just feels like it's a faster pace. However, watching WinterSC play the older races have been quite fun. It's a missed opportunity on Blizzard's end and honestly it's sad they gave up on the game and yet AoE 2 still gets updates. Both Sc and Sc2 are better than that (In my opinion).
Sadly, with how greedy big gaming companies are, if Blizzard decided to do anything with it. it would be just way over charged. Even though all the stuff is in the game and would take 0 work. Maybe like a $5 USD cost to have servers and keep the lights on? I dunno.
I just enjoy the Brood War vs Brood in the sc2 engine over Sc1 vs Sc2 thing.
(Please note: A lot of this is just me stating my opinion. I am not saying 1 version of the game is better than the other.)
P.S. I really enjoy your Sc2 content Esports Storyteller. I'd love to hear more bios of proplayers kinda like you did with Special in one of the videos. (I vote Zest who is one of the best and most interesting Protoss players. As Winter says, "Zest is just Has if Has ever bothered to Macro... and be good at Sc2")
what is the exact name of the mod? i see a bunch of EVO Complete mods in the list :(
Truly hope it does. A ladder and patches to add balance would make things last a while, I haven't played the game in over 5 years and finally reinstalled.
They would absolutely have to nerf BW spell casters and provide buffs for the base units though.
this mod is pure genius been playing it a lot recently
Everyone also has a different opinion on how it should work. If you ask me I would like it to be closer to bw and not have many modifications regardless of balance, as much as possible at least.
I sure hope so
Same issue as before. No active development, this is just a fase. (coming from a fan of the game)
i think you mean phase*
When is team vs team going to be available?
So this is the future... But exactly that, "Future"
Solution to units/builds that the other game is not designed for: Combine SC1 Protoss with SC2 Protoss, SC1 Zerg with SC2 Zerg, and SC1 Terran with SC2 Terran. Then every race has an answer to builds from their respective game. Tech Tree Example, Nexus allows building of both SC1 Gateway and SC2 Gateway, and any of the Gateways allows the construction of Cybernetics Core, which leads to both SC1 Stargate or SC2 Stargate.
the issue is BW was nicer in 2D, the 3D tech is just not there yet and its very cartoony like. They should have never removed the old units that worked really well. I think if SC3 is real it should come out around 2030 when the 3D technology has progressed way more
The scarab is way too fast wth
If not were because it would be a balancing nightmare and pulling out new factions of the same 3 races would be a pain the ass, Microsoft / Blizzard should copy the Age of Empires model and sell expansion packs every year with new factions. Besides the BW races, they can add the UED, Primal Zerg, and Tal' Darim.
any one even know what the mod name ?
And after SC2 evo mod SC3 will ne next 😁
I thought Cosmonarchy would be the future of competitive StarCraft, with tons of new units and a different design philosophy separate from vanilla StarCraft.
Liberator? Z1 can decimate it easily with scourge, you were looking at old replays when players were new to the mod. At current meta, scourges are so often used that SC2 and protoss don't even bother with air units, liberater??? What's that?
is there no corsairs in this mode?
Evo#1
WE NEED IT IN THE GAME AS RANKED!
I wonder if they can give sc1 style movement to the melee units of the old races. Also, I'm not 100 percent certain but it feels like units are refiring quicker with stutter stepping compared to sc1, which makes some units much more powerful with micro.
With sc1, if you stutter step and stop too soon, the unit will not refire until a certain time has passed, which is also after the 'rearming' animation where units take aim or gun hatches open. With sc2 in particular, marines can refire immediately after stopping, and there is a visual bug where the marines' firing animation is not quite synching up, indicating the lack of minimum time intervals for movement and firing, etc... without these, some of the new units feel especially strong!
This mod has been out for years technically.. it will go in the obscurity pile. Star Battle was more popular than this mod tbh.
I'm replaying StarCraft 1 campaign and man I hate reavers. Can't wait to get back to StarCraft 2 where they don't exist lol.
you hate reavers used against you or using them? .. in SC2 you have disruptors while having a cooldownspell imo are worse than reavers
@@MrTBSC that is also fair. I'm just whining about it playing the first game lol. I completely forgot the hard time they give me. Well, them by themselves are fine because I can pick them off with mutas but they have good support by cannons and other protoss anti air when I play against them in campaign lol. AI is too good at micro lmao. I'm also just mediocre
imo they should just add some of the necessary units of the SC2 factions to the BW factions that weren't just straight replacements
and it isn't THAT much i think
zerg needs corrupters (they heavily lack in the AA department even with the devourer), queens would be difficult since they are already there in their BW version ... so maybe midgame airweapon range upgrade for hydralisk and sporecolonies instead?
terran should get the reaper for early harassment ...
toss should get the colossus and adept
the more crucial addition though imo might be the macromechanics the factions received
terran mules
zerg larvainjection
and toss overcharge
scourge? vulture?
Mod is absolutely cool even though it isn’t balanced. I mean, SC2 is not even close to being balanced.
WHERE IS STARCRAFT VS WARCRAFT?!
You mean Star Wars?
Look at Stormgate. It is former employees of Blizzard game. It look like mix Starcraft and Warcraft.
When they say balance of evolution does it mean that Protos is 40 percent weaker than the other races? How in sc 2 that balance is the only thing that does not exist? The Reaver is a unit that requires a constant micro, it is quite well balanced, not like most of the Terran units. in sc 2 they are very easy to abuse their power like the viking 9 attack range +40 damage how to eat that plus they are very cheap they are built 2 by 2 a very oppressive and easy to handle unit
Stalkers are not better than dragoons
I tried this mod and found that dragoons are poo. I mean they're good but they do so poo damage to light that it's almost negligible. Terran BW bio it's also poo.
skill issue
how does the 'damage' type from BW is converted into SC2 dmg type? Goons did explosive, so it's 50% to 'small' units
It's a really cool mod but it wont be the future of competitive play. It does highlight how much more fresh and exciting SC2 could have stayed if Blizzard had been less conservative about mixing things up over the years. They pandered too much to the status quo of professional play and the game suffered for it.
I hope not
It's just a fad
best channel ever
It's nice but I think it's gimmicky. I think it's very unbalanced. Is it worth balancing another three races? How do you even do it? It's a six races x6 matchups?! Ye good luck with that.
Get a job (if you have a job get a promotion)
and start working out the game is dead
Ew no
4:19 stalkers are better than dragoons? you sc2 fanboys are spoiled brats.
Nope. Sc2 is better
in my opinion I was upset that they put the evo mod on the esl broadcast. Afreeca did it whatever they've lost the plot ages ago. But ESL was the place for the best pro 1v1 tournaments. Putting in a team evo game really soured their legitimacy for me, no wonder they gave up the world championship to the saudi's. Arcade games should stay where they belond, away from the pro scene tournaments.
What a dumb opinion.... Don't you see that the pro scene is slowly dying? Would you prefer they create tournaments for 5k people? This mod is a fresh take and it definitely brings a lot of new players/ viewers.
They gave up the world champion ship not because of the SC evo mod. The scene is already slowly dying out because SC1 is a objectively a terrible game with too many issues and outdated control that drive new comers away, meanwhile SC2 is filled with balancing problems which make people quitted in mass. This SC evo mod has nothing to do with the current state of both SC1 and SC2, so your opinion came from your own negative emotion, not from logical thinking.