What could be wrong with monogamy? Marc de Hond at TEDxEde
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2013
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I was monogamous for 14 years and after being with my current girl for 4 years we both stumbled upon an article about polyamory and within 24 hours we had mutually agreed on giving it a go. I have been polyamorous for just under 1 year now and it has been the most eye-opening, progressive personal growth period of my entire life. For me, jealousy and insecurities controlled my love life and destroyed my past relationships and monogamy gave me a logical argument for my illogical negative reactions. Every time I saw any of my exs showing interest in another man it would drive me up the wall and I would try and coerce her behavior to avoid other men or be around her all the time so I could "keep an eye on her". While I was over this to a certain degree by my current gf I still had those issues deep down. Polyamory forced me to deal with them - and I'm glad it did even if it was hard at times.
To use an analogy, jealousy is like a fear of heights. If you avoid heights, the fear is reinforced. If you go mountain climbing, each time becomes less scary until eventually it's such an insignificant problem that it no longer controls your actions. For a person who suffered greatly from jealousy, the freedom polyamory has given me is priceless.
I currently love my partner and my other gf (confirmation - you can love more than 1 person with all involved being perfectly fine with this). I also found that my desire to pursue any more girls lately has almost disappeared entirely (yes, we're not all just sex crazed misogynists that "use" one woman after the next).
If you bothered to read this far, thanks, and I hope my personal story helps to show that we're not all just abominations of our current over sexualised, apathetic culture.
+noddy3007 I too am polyamorous and it reinforced my relationship rather than destroy it. Its nice to read another story.
+noddy3007 I also found that my desire to pursue any more girls lately has almost disappeared entirely
Then why did you feel like perusing it when you were with your first girlfriend.I think you are fooling yourself if you think it has nothing to do with something being missing between the two of you .The fact that both of you just eagerly open to the idea,says a lot
Do you think its because you're a beta / omega and you had to make this sacrifice emotionally (even though eventually it become home'y for you)? I'm not trolling i am genuinely curious.
Sounds like you’re a providing beta male (aka security) while she’s actively seeking out an alpha male.
Alien NATION so glad you found happiness.😘😘 what a lovely story.
People like variety, whether it be food, music, or intimacy. Not very many people only eat chocolate ice cream or listen listen to the same pink floyd song over and over again.
pink floyd sucks
But a person has much more variety and complexity then one song or one meal...
True, but two or three partners multiplies that variety many times over.
People aren't objects
💯
Alot of polyamorous people have kids and those kids seem to do a bit better than the average kids of monogamous relationships, according to an American study in recent years. The reason? More loving, caring adults that are there when you need them.
There's no reason to assume that people have to live in monogamous relationships if they want to have and raise happy, well-adjusted kids.
slowfire2 AMEN!
+slowfire2 citation
+slowfire2 citation..
I think it probably goes back to community and our origins. So with that in mind, monogamy can work but you need that community outside of lovers. Spend time alone, see friends and share back with your partner
This will be the standard thinking in 20 to 50 years. They will look back on our time and say, "wow can you imagine what monogamy must have been like."
Thanks!
Izzi Adler From disney movies to church and from parents guidance to tv commercials, we are bombarded with the general assumption that monogamy is not only your standard option but your only moral option. Women particularly are socially penalised for being known as someone who has multiple partners (sluts, whores ect) and polygamy is actually illegal or whilst infidelity is grounds for divorce. Right now we are conditioned that way rather than presented with two balanced options from which we can make a fair choice. Monogamy at best is difficult and at worst impossible. The more people who are willing to be real about this stuff might make the already difficult task of long term relationships a bit easier. That, at least is my hope.
Ask any hippie communes how well it worked out for them.
***** The failures of hippie communes in the 60s can not directly be compared to this era partners deciding to explore sex outside their partnership. Those communes tried to tackle more of a complete lifestyle/community change beyond promiscuity alone. Humans don't get things right first time round and often our behaviors persist despite not being optimal. A 40-50% divorce rate (UK/USA stats) does not present a perfect situation either despite being "the norm".....That being said, time will tell if society sticks to regarding monogamy as the correct/optimal/best/only way to approach relationships.
Tunji Bamgbola A lot of the lifestyle concepts in the polygamy community are similiar to those hippie communes and I don't see how they're not comparable. Jealousy is an evolutionary trait and you can be sure we won't be losing it.
Omg I am in the beginning stages of a new relationship. I have been trying to explain precisely what this talk is about. Thank you so much!
True love is like ghosts, which everyone talks about and few have seen.
love is not a ghosts , we can feel it , we can sees it , we can dream it , we can live it and living it make us def rent.
+Mahmoud Bsharat just like ghosts. ;)
What is felt as love is conditional and from guys' perspective it actually starts with lust... The lust fades away fast when you have access to someone and then comes the stage of feeling for a change yet the bond to your spouse remains the same or more stronger... So I feel if a couple still want eachother's company after this hot phase of lust gone that may be called love.. Children play a huge role in keeping this need for company as they create a common goal for both.. How a couple behave with the feeling of change is their personal matter and no one can bench mark it as long as its impacts are personal only to those two provided that they are open on it among them... Love or lust can change but marriage I beleive is a decision to stay together irrespective of those changes.. So marriage has to be there for the stability of man kind yet as this video says the openness on monogomy has to be built in it..
Very good , what have you write above , I think , lust can complete love, because it a part of love, I think the faith ( religion) can play a very big part in marriage if religion has a special orders and we follow it we can keep well , They say : contentment is treasurer.
the second you start expecting anything in any relationship its bound to fail. monogomy or not. I believe if 2 people can be selfless towards each other and be open in general everyone would be happy. Entering a relationship hoping something or someone will give you happiness/sex/intimacy bla bla is bound to fail. If you cant make yourself happy no one will. its not about monogomy or polygomy its about self cultivation and very few people bother to think about that.
Before I EVEN WATCH THIS, the problem with monogamy (and I know so many of you think immediately to MEN with this theory) The problem is people treating marriage as an accomplishment/settlement and to be honest so many people shouldn't get married. It has NOTHING to with being monogamous.
The mentality needs to change before you can say monogamy is the problem. There are such things as cheaters in polygamy too. Look at every Disney film minus 10 or so... A woman was the prize for getting the bad guy, slaying a dragon etc. That was a Ted talks episode.
Best comment yet!
Well, if you would have chosen to WATCH the video before you commented, you would have known that it simply isn´t about marriage at all. It´s about societal forced monogamy even though we aren´t monogamous as a species. If you would broaden the range of this video, it´s about society forcing the subject to behave unnaturally and then wondering why it doesn´t work out. There are way more examples of that than just monogamy.
I did watch. I think we have actually evolved and some learned behaviors I actually do think a lot of us are monogamous by nature though. Society forms us. There was a phsychologist can't remember which one - would need to double check - that said you want an axe murderer I'll raise one or something like that basically meaning we shape our ppl. So Idk if even we aren't manogomous it's that society actually is raising cheaters. Vicious cycle. It's early in the morning I still haven't gone to bed so I know what I'm trying to say should make some sense lol
This guy just has excuses for everything. Oh, I do it? It must be right! Bs
Communication is SO important!
Thanks, Marc!!
For me, it is not so much about sexual variety. What I want, truly, is the freedom to connect with women that I feel really attracted to. Once in a while I might see a girl and I think, oh man, I would love to talk to her, to make her laugh, to feel her energy, and just go with the flow with her, even if that means having sex in the end. But I can't help but feel limited as a result of my relationship. I'm not someone who wants to bang as many hot girls as I can or whatever, but I do feel like I am denying myself truly satisfying experiences that I would otherwise engage in. Even just 'flirting' with a girl, telling a girl she is beautiful feels wrong to me, not just because I am supposed to be in a monogamous relationship, but because the girl might feel 'toyed with' in a sense for you expressing your sexual attraction, getting her all 'warmed up' then being like 'yeh sorry I have a girlfriend though'. In other words not only does monogamy make having multiple sexual partners wrong, but it also seems to imply no 'flirting', which is an even more painful denial of experience to me. In any case, it's my responsibility to des, with the conditioning and find what works for me.
Stephen Hughes Thanks for your honest response Stephen. I can completely relate to what you said.
Perfectly said.
So you're okay with your girlfriend banging hot guys instead of you then?
Yes, Matthew, that is the reciprocal point. If I am honest with myself and my own desires, why would I not then also expect honesty from my wife/GF and her desires? If I am truly wanting the best thing in life for her, why would I not want her to be free in the same way to talk to any man or woman she would like to, make them laugh, feel their energy, and to just go with the flow of what may happen between them? Why would you want to make it sound so demented and sound so exclusionary when it is much more inclusive and accepting than typical monogamy relationships are?
then just stay single.
Not everyone is wired for monogamy. I find it funny how often people assume that people always assume guys want an open or polygamous relationship because they want more sex. Ladies here's something to think about:
I'm a 26 year old white male. I'm demisexual meaning I don't have any sexual attraction to a person unless I have an emotional connection with them. I known dozen's of people in poly or open relationships and out of those 40+ people only in two cases was it the guy who suggested it.
Here's another thing- I was one of those guys, I didn't say "Hey we should have sex with other people" for my sake either. I have an exceedingly low sex drive, and while I enjoy it it's not the earth shattering amazing experience to me that everyone else seems to think it is. It never has been and likely never will be a motivating factor for me. I offered the option to every woman I've been with for them, because we'd reached a point in our relationship where we were comfortable with each other, she understood what I needed and wanted, I understood what she needed and wanted and quite frankly I could only do so much. If a woman I'm with wants to sleep with another guy I DON'T CARE as long as she follows basic rules- She uses protection, I know about it before hand, and I get to meet the guy eventually and he knows about me before hand. I've never regretted this, I met one of my best friends because of this arrangement and we still joke about "the mutual crazy ex" even though we both see her frequently.
Bottom line though as long as I'm the one she's coming home to at the end of the day, and as long as she respects my limits I don't care. Sex does not equate love and I'd like to think anyone I'm entrusting my heart to is smart enough to understand that.
+FirstIsa Never heard of the word "demisexual" before, but I completely understand what you mean by the description of the term. :-)
MegF It's not a commonly used term and I'm finding that most people that are demisexual don't realize it and assume something is wrong with them because they don't have the desire for sex. A lot of people when I explain it to them simply say "Well your just old fashion" the thing is it's not a choice it's simply how my brain and body function, weather by nature or nurture I can't say but it's a fact not a choice.
Another sexual persuasion that tends to get ignored because so few people are open about it is asexuality which is people that have little or no sex drive (some actually find the idea of sex physically nauseating) but still have a desire for a emotionally romantic relationship.
www.asexuality.org/ actually has some good information about both terms.
When you say,
"If a woman I'm with wants to sleep with another guy I DON'T CARE as long as she follows basic rules- She uses protection, I know about it before hand, and I get to meet the guy eventually and he knows about me before hand"
i cant help but think, especially @ "knowing before hand and meeting the guy", that it sounds like beta/omega cucking m8.
I am not being rude i want to ask you genuinely. I am very curious about this subject & am a young lad getting over religion the last 6 years and trying to figure out things myself.
Respect
That’s deep. I appreciate this
The whole point of being married is to share your life with another person, by choice. The keyword here is "choice". We need to revolutionize our ideas of a relationship. I personally wouldn't be able to handle being in a polygamous relationship and in my opinion that's like being a vegetarian, its a choice made by those who'se feelings and discipline can achieve such.
If you can't be in a monogamous relationship, you won't be inferior, you will just be honest.
Yes, people have a choice, and that kinds of choices were made by men in Sodom and Gomorrah.
You do know that the Romans imposed monogamy on the Jews and Christians at sword point as a sacrament to Hera. So keep practicing your pagan religion disguised as Christianity.
Monogamy is not (IMO) the most natural relationship for humans, but many people are not comfortable, and/or cannot emotionally handle a non-monogamous relationship. There is nothing wrong with this, as long as both partners know they can remain monogamous. Otherwise heartbreak will ensue later in the relationship.
if you look at the major reasons for break ups between couples, the number 1 reason is cheating; if we were to eliminate the cheating aspect then break ups would be severely reduced
lol I use to have a girlfriend a year ago; I told her that I was meeting other women and developing crushes on them; I asked if I could try dating them; she ended up dumping me and her brother wanted to kick my ass for being a cheater; lol like really? all this hostility because I had a crush on another woman and I wanted to build a relationship with her?
I think society needs to rethink its values and provide another way of dating to couples; sure monogamy works for some people but why not provide other people an alternate option to monogamy? why just only give us one option? and why shun and degrade and belittle people with different beliefs?
I believe if someone truly accepts you for who you are then they wouldn't be so hostile toward one's different idea or opinion and threaten to break up and leave them for thinking different
I am monogamous, and I wish people were open about their intentions in terms of wanting to have exclusive intimacy and sex for a year or so and then switch to someone else. I wonder what it would be like if the majority of people would disclose their intentions before going into a relationship? For someone like me it would change everything, I would feel like I have a definite choice, I would feel certain and excited about my situation, whether I would be with someone or be single. I almost feel like it is not monogamy that is taken for granted, but the presumption that we all expect ourselves to break up with each other sometime in the future. Maybe, to be more precise, we take for granted the need to communicate clearly what our plans with the other person are. I personally wish so badly that the person, who said they loved me, clarified that they loved me until a certain point and they have no intention in cultivating and nurturing that love with me as a partner in a long-term future. It would have made a world of difference to someone like me. I can't emphasize enough how important for a monogamous person in the 21st century it is to have such an honest conversation and be able to make the right choice, that is not going to ruin the rest of your life and self-image.
+Olga Rykov Good point
I asked :David-Wynn: Miller what the meaning of love is and hes responded that there are 88-definitions of the word: love. I still havenot done my homework looking them up in a dictionary, but I am so consumed with other things like being a father-in-the-making and trying to navigate my life in this fucked-up medical-care-system... ummm... back to topic, since we donot know(, do we?) what love is by it's definition, we should rather be careful with the usury of it... and same for hate, how can one know one without the other? One can't... we have work to do and whoever chooses to stay ignorant, reap what they sow sooner or later. As for the gender-difference: Man and woman are like antagonistic-complementary such as the yin-yang-principle.
Olga Rykov I 100% agree with you, if you know you're polyamorous you should explain that up front. Unfortunately it took me a while to admit to myself so I didn't tell my partner until 4 years in. What a relief when he accepted me for who I am before I had even gotten to accepting myself.
I couldn't agree more.
I appreciate the maturity with which this topic has been presented by the speaker I wish the audience posting their thoughts and feelings below, would have all had the same maturity! But such is reality!
I personally need monogamy not because I am a woman nor Christian, this is who I am because I have the more intense need of feeling safe. Monogamy gives me this sense of commitment and security. I realize everyone is different, and I can agree to disagree on this!
That being said!
I understand the need and appreciate the honest approach in which such a discussion about personal needs has to be addressed in a relationship if you want to be in a meaningful and 'successful' relationship.
Shockingly enough I had such an 'honest' conversation I thought at the beginning of my former relationship and it was actually my partner who not only initiated it but insisted that he needed monogamy. I did not initiate this discussion, I was not the 'mature' one I have had a lot of growing up to do since then. To this day and in spite of what happened I am glad he did.
The problem turned out to be that he can't be committed, monogamous nor honest. Although he is a very attractive man, there is no desire left in engaging in a sexual relationship with him because of his bottom line dishonesty.
So my point here, besides ensuring that you have such a candid discussion with anyone, make sure that you also have the 'guts' to truthfully speak about your needs and don't just wish to force your desires on someone else or achieve a short term goal!
If you can do that, than I am sure this video and follow up discussion is going to be a huge blessing. But if not, you will add another notch into the complexity of human hypocrisy and will cause another human being so much pain, that you might be ashamed of what you have done, if you have a little bit of a conscience.
My criticism of the discussion initiated here, it only looks at your own feelings and needs from a one sided perspective. Spin this the other way, a basic human need is not to feel or be rejected. People who cheat do not tolerate even a flirt! They can't handle it they loose it, because they feel the loss of control over their partner. It might be a nice theoretical concept of dating or even sleeping with numerous partners, but how would you honestly feel if they would do this to you? Can you actually handle it?
There is no "one size fits all" format for relationships. However, some universal values do need to be applied in every relationship: respect and honesty. It's wrong to lie to someone about wanting to be monogamous when you have no intention to be so. If you truly respect your partner you can be honest with them about your needs and desires.
wow, It's like hearing someone speak out my exact opinion, this is EXACTLY how I feel about it... :-)
The reason i choose to die a virgin ; so many dramas messy emotions; cheating and STDs
You get STD only if you don't use protection. Also, sex doesn't have to do with love.
Vlad Ivanovici
Who care about love i dont. just a faightful human being witch is rare if you look at statistic 50% of sexual active people have hpv virus; and people dont usely use protection during oral sex witch may transmates diseases like herpes. And of course the lies the unplanned kids the divorces and the drama aint nobody got time for that
You can force people to be monogamous, but you can't force them to like it. hence the high divorce rates in areas where people don't face financial ruin or shame for just falling out of love.
Who is forcing people to be monogamous? Last I checked, couples were deciding what's best for their relationship. Any marriage that fails due to non-monogamy (of any type), is because the spouses fundamentally disagree on the dynamic.
But I'm glad you mentioned falling out of love, because that, in itself, has nothing to do with mono or poly. If one falls out of love with their spouse, that's not polyamory. And all the acceptance of multiple partners in the world would do nothing to change that.
Brent Tegtmeyer Our society forces people into legally enforced monogamy.
What are you talking about? There is no law that forces anyone to live monogamously. And who is enforcing it anyway?
Brent Tegtmeyer We're brought up to believe we're supposed to get married and raise a family. Both the church and laws say that we're only supposed to have sex with one person for the rest of our life. If you go outside of marriage, your spouse can sue you for divorce on the basis of having sex with someone else, and the courts will side with them. If you're rich, it's no big deal as half of a million is still enough to life nicely, but if you're poor it is devastating financually.
Not exactly. First of all, just because getting married & raising a family are commonplace, doesn't mean that that's what's being taught. There is no law that says anyone has to get married, ever.
Second, I don't care what some churches say. If the church is heavily influencing monogamous marriage, then it's up to the people to decide if they want to continue following that church. The congregants always have the final say, and can leave the church if they disagree with its rules. Churches have no real authority anyway. As for the "laws" you speak of, show me precisely where there is any law that says one can only have sex with one person for the rest of our lives...
Just because the courts grant divorces to couples where one partner cheats on the other, has nothing to do with laws on monogamy. In most states, anyone can get divorced for any reason. And it's always the spouse who was cheated on that makes that decision to get divorced (unless the cheater decides to leave). BUT, sometimes, they don't get divorced, sometimes they work it out and stay married. No laws were broken because there was no law to ever break in the first place.
Now, it's true that divorce is often financially devastating... For men at least. In cases where the women cheat, the husbands usually don't get squat. That's not a mono/poly problem, that's an issue of sexism in the courts.
At the end of the day, it's we as adults who are responsible for setting our own family/relationship dynamics. If a couple wants to agree to poly, then fine, if they want mono, then fine. The disconnect is almost always a case where one partner decides mid stream that they want to change the agreement, but the other partner wants to keep it the same. It's not society's fault, it's between the couple in question to work out, or go their separate ways. Why should a monogamous partner be forced into taking part in an open marriage?
the for and against sides of this argument are quite strong. And a lot of people have strong feelings towards this subject so any comment for any side is bound to rub someone the wrong way.
It is not this or that, it is this and that.
The truth is monogamy (as much as hollywood paints it) is still relatively new in our evolution. In fact it came as a force when societies were having issues with inheritances and keeping some christian traditions.
Regardless, gene or no gene, love or lust, or greed or selflessness... the most important thing is acceptance and not judgement.
A lot of people are quick to point fingers without realising that humanity thrives because of diversity in skin colour, race, opinions, and sex.
Lighten up, in the grand scheme of the universe (if aliens were to look down on us from some star far away) no one cares. Just live your life, and multiply if you wish. Trying to pick a side is a waste of time.
Since becoming a single mum I have been thinking a lot about this difficult subject. I wonder is it beeing not faithfull or is it because we live longer and therefor have more relationships in one lifetime. It is an interresting subject and I would realy like to explore more about it. Esther Perel also has some interessting things to say about this.
Thank you Marc for beeing so open about something most people only think about!
Most people in Monogamous relationships constantly lie to themselves about there wants and needs and are afraid to express that to there spouses for fear that they might leave.
Here is another point, if monogamy was so good why are we afraid to tell our partners about what we desire? I've looked through all these comments on this thread and can tell many of you are offended by his argument. But yet constantly you have monogamist redefining the terms of there relationship all the time just to suit there needs. if things are so ridged it will be bound to fail from the start, that is what this man is saying. he never said Monogamy was bad, he said that it shouldn't be the ONLY choice by default and that there are many options by which you can design a relationship to suit your own needs.
Me personally I am a self-described Polyamorous person, I do believe you can love more than one person.
We put Monogamy on such a high pedestal in America that we fail to acknowledge the flaws in the ideology. No one person can make you happy all of the time, i use to believe this and use to walk into relationships thinking I needed someone to make me happy but ultimately I ended up disappointed.
Today i don't feel this insecurity because being Poly has taught me to give love without any expectations of a commitment.
Monogamy is like closing off oxygen in a room, eventually people grow tired, cut off their friends, get jealous at the slightest infractions of flirting, check phones, emails, start arguments, eventually cheat, and then move on to the next relationship and repeat the process.
In reality we are not Monogamous, we are SERIAL MONOGAMOUS, we may go through many relationships before we settle with one and when we get old many don't find a partner ever again so how is this happily ever after?
One thing that pisses me off about monogamous couples is they have this ability to think Single people need to be PAIRED up in order to be happy and that if you are single you are sad, lonely or bitter about your single status. And this is the main reason why people don't like heterosexual couples because they think their relationship style is better than everybody else's.
Antonio Johnson Actually, I learned to be happy with myself before I could get engaged to my future husband. Of course, if you thought you needed someone to make you happy, no wonder it didn't work out. Btw, I was perfectly happy single, I thought I was gonna stay single for the rest of my life and was glad about it. I understand that you may have a different experience with "monogamous" people, but please, don't genealize about it. I am monogamous, but not "serial monogamous". I never was in any relationship before my fiance, and never intended to be. And the reason I know it is and will work it is (as crazy as it sounds) that it is NOT based on "love". A relationship or marriage based solely or mainly on "love" is bound to fail, as this isn't about love. It's about family, commitment, common moral values, goals, views, and lifestyle. I never felt this "new relationship high" with my to-be husband.
Jézabel Poirier Im not generalizing, that is the reality! All marriages now end in divorce and many are not getting into committed relationships because it costs significant amounts of money to maintain them so how is monogamy even plausible in an age of technological expansion, and the fact that people may have to move from one state to the other to keep or find a job? The reality is many in my generation can't settle because we are too worried that we may lose our career due to jobs going overseas. one of the biggest issues in forming relationships is compromise and our generation doesn't have a good hold on that, so don't tell me Monogamy still exists because it only lasts but for short spans of time, you maybe married for 25 years and then get divorced, and remarried, then divorced 10 years later, you may have three marriages and one almost marriage before you come to the realization that maybe just MAYBE Monogamy doesn't work in this generation due to outside factors like a changing economy.
Antonio Johnson lol...when you say that *ALL* marriages end up in divorce, that is a generalization. Just because this is what you see and how you feel, doesn't mean it's the case for everybody. That is what generalization is: to think that just because it's like that for some people, then it's like that for everybody. Some marriages still last until death do them apart, despite economy, technology and other factors. They require true commitment, honesty, communication, trust, a few things that most people aren't willing to share nowadays. My fiancé is a US citizen on welfare and food stamps, I'm a Canadian citizen without a fixed adress or stable job. We can't yet begin the immigration process due to insufficient income. We are still monogamous and fighting for our future together, and our future family. (But I guess, maybe it helps that both of us are asexual (not sexually attracted to anyone) and didn't *want* a relationship in the first place (which isn't related to being asexual, as some asexual may still actively seek a relationship). In other words, we wouldn't look for or be in a relationship or get married with anyone else and both of us was fine remaining single forever, but we share a spiritual connection that goes beyond "love" as well as common values and goals in life...)
Jézabel Poirier
ok I get what your saying but for me and many others some marriages don't last long. I'd rather take my chances being single than to be in a relationship where I know this person may walk out on me when they don't find it appealing anymore. either way its better than being heatbroken and seeing the one you love on instagram and facebook posting photos of their new love. that's a pain I don't ever want to experience again.
Antonio Johnson Exactly; some (many) but certainly not all marriages! Well, that's a good choice you're making for yourself to not enter a relationship unless you know it has a future. That's why I never was in a relationship before (neither was my fiancé), because there is no point to it if both partners don't see themselves together for their lives, and if they don't agree on basic things such as family. If you ever meet the right partner for you, you will know; otherwise, I agree with you that there's no point playing around. This excitement from a new relationship is a deception as well. My fiancé and I didn't feel it... We were just comfortable together very quickly. That's how it should be imho. And a relationship that's based only on "love" is weak.
it would break my heart to see the love of my life with someone else.
some people suite being mono and others suite being poly ☺
Yes, and some people made a choice to be in hell like people in Sodom And Gomorrah because the polygamy opens the door actually did opened already to gay merriges and so on.....
@@agapelove9816 you're 500 years in the past. Its the 21st century, let people live in peace how they want to live🙏
if people are going to have an open relationship, they should not have children. Children need a committed mother and father for stability.
+monjiaitaly being in an open relationship with your partner does not make you an uncommited mother or father.
Je suis Jozi bullshit it doesn't. What the hell kind of message is that for your kids. I love your Mommy but I like to spend time with this other woman who is not your mommy, ridiculous.
You implied that people in open relationships cannot be committed parents and I strongly disagree with that. Perhaps it's hard for you to imagine, but I assure you that is possible to sleep with other people but still love your wife (or husband) and kids with all your heart. That takes nothing away from the love you have for your family. Being a committed parent is not about who you're sleeping with (or how many people you're sleeping with), it's about spending quality time with your children, PERIOD.
Je suis Jozi man are you mistaken and one day you will know just how wrong you are.
LOL
I'm interested in logical arguments, not silly finger-wagging.
Great video, I like that you described both sides
Thanks for the compliment!
I think he's trying to say people need to consider that there are other options besides monogamy. They need to choose the sort of relationship that best suites them, instead of trying to conform to what they think society expects of them.
Friendships are more important to some than an exclusive relationship. You won't have to deal with someone saying you're not enough but really believe they love you. Friendships cut out all of that nonsense and everyone is happy.
Simple concept, if it works for you and your partner(s) than that's is the most important thing. Never have I truly felt fully alive until I stopped worrying about how others viewed MY life choices. I don't need someone telling me what moral choices I am supposed to make because of what we've been conditioned to believe.
People will find a reason to judge you on anything that they can, so why bother trying to live up to anyone's standards but your own?
I agree people judge others all the time
Polygamous doesn't mean the same as polyamorous.
Polygamy is MARRYING more than one person, while Polyamory is just having a RELATIONSHIP with more than one person.
+Kats987124 Not quite. Polygamy is simply a men with more than one woman. There's polyandry, too - a woman with more than one man. Polyamory is a generalized, non-gender specific evolution of those older concepts and some others.
not quite, at least according to the dictionary. Many people take polygamy to mean polygyny, but that is not the dictionary meaning of the word. Polygamy is not specific to gender, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy
i support taking a short term (like 2years) vow and renewing that vow every year or two. It is not reasonable to expect me to marry someone for my whole life these days. I think personally seeing one person at a time is most sensible solution still though. idk how ppl keep up with polyamorous or polygamous relationship. Where do they find time and emotional resources to keep up with multiple relationships? How do ppl build a trust in relationship? by denying jealousy? I feel often times, ppl seek polyamorous relationships because they are afraid of having a deep connection with someone, being rejected, or simply too self-centered.
Do you have less love for your third or fourth child than you do for your first? Or are you able to love them all equally? Does having children reduce the love you have for your spouse? Or does the quantity of love that you show and have grow with the number of children In your life? The same happens with people that are in poly relationships. The amount of possible love that a person can show to others is not finite. The amount of love that a person is able to give continues to grow with the number of people that they love. And what is love anyway if not the desire to show another person that they are cared for and that you are concerned with their happiness and well-being? If you cannot do that for more than one person ever, then it is you that have a character flaw and are self centered. And jealousy is not a symbol of love but of possessiveness and ownership. Losing and/or denying jealousy would actually make EVERY marriage a better marriage.
I'm monogamous because I'm monogamous. Nothing in a closet to hide. Why is it difficult for people to believe you're just fine having one partner?
The problem arises with those who get excitement from sex alone. If one has a passion other than sex, one is less likely to cheat, getting high on other interests, be it art, research, whatever....If you are doing a job you don't really like then naturally you will look for excitement outside of marriage. Cheating generates it's own kind of excitement, the fear of being caught, the possible consequences. And what is forbidden is also very attractive...
Marriage should be a considered when two people want to have togetherness and raise kids to their full potential by providing them emotional stability. If not why bother to marry? Extra marital sex creates a bond and intimacy with the new partner which excludes the earlier partner who then suddenly feels left out and this can be very painful.....What is really irritating, is men will all clamor for freedom to have sex with whomever they please...but when it comes to their women doing the same, they run high on anxiety....one guy who dates a married woman is now so frustrated because he cannot have her all the time but he shows preference for songs where the singer says"no other man can touch my girl" or "I don't like any other man even speaking about her as she is exclusively mine" etc .I want freedom he says but suffers from this so called freedom....so one has to either be a masochist or a sadist to indulge in extra marital affairs since you hurt the person you are with and also hurt yourself when your new lover is busy servicing someone else.....This talker proves one thing, that children of broken marriages, usually end up in divorces themselves, like kids of alcoholics end up choosing alcoholics as partners....one wants to subconsciously return to one's childhood even with all it's horrors because it still was time where food and rent and one's existence was taken care of ..
There are also other problems with infidelity. You can bring home a deadly venereal disease and pass it to your innocent partner...like herpes, for instance in which event you and your partner have to give up sex entirely for the rest of your life...
And what FREEDOM are you speaking about when you are just a SLAVE to your desires?
Angeli Alvares Nothing you said was correct....
Chopinfan R There is a tribe in Africa where men lock their penises in a vegetable gourd and have sex with their mates only in Springtime when all other species do. According to research done on these tribes..they are amongst the happiest people in the world....All this obsession with sex is PROGRAMMED into us daily by ads which use sexy women to push a product and hollywood movies who feel they HAVE to include a steamy sex scent to sell their movies as they can't find writers with interesting stories to tell ....with info everywhere constantly focussed on the lowest chakra, humans are unable to connect with their higher divine chakras that can bring them lasting happiness, through creating art, music, stories or allowing them to excel in mind enhancing activities....Why the corporates keep pushing sex, is because they know it brings temperory excitement, followed by frustration and unhappiness so you run out and buy their next product. All animals only use it for procreation, and most species, including wolves, surprisingly are MONOGAMOUS....However everything is RIGHT about Love and Sex combined. To share intimacy and closeness with the one you love is one of the most beautiful experiences in the world. It puts a zing into your efforts and propels you to your fullest potential in whatever do.......the rest is how you nurture the love....for if it fails, you have only yourself to blame. However even to enjoy sex on whatever merit you might give it...such as release of tension, due to hard work etc, you need a time period to recharge the body ,to experience a real high with the next event. Like the stress that builds up in tectonic plates, the longer the abstinence, the more intense the excitement generated from it....so if you want to have lust for your partner permanently, space your activity to where it comes naturally, usually when the female puts out pheromenes during ovulation....then sex with your partner wil always be a high and you won't need to run to someone else. Every new person you get involved with is going to cost you financially, and also emotionally as everyone comes with their own psychological baggage which will inevitably be dumped on you....you can get more excitement out of learning a new language, learning a new skill or improving your mind because that's all you will be taking with you when you pass on to your next existence....sex everyday is doomed to failure as your body just does not have the capacity to recharge for this mega orgasm event in one day...on a daily basis.....a new distraction might put some fire into you for a short time but there too you will find the same disillusion if you are with the new partner on a daily basis. Your dissatisfaction really stems from your dissatisfaction with YOURSELF and your humdrum existence and outside sex is a way to add some excitement to your otherwise boring self.....make yourself interesting and your own partner will be turned on to you, enough to take care of your sex life......no one else can give you the happiness you need but yourself.....obsession with sex is just a way to escape from YOURSELF.....which is what happens when you reach an orgasm...for one moment you cease to exist .....
+Angeli Alvares Would you be so kind as to send us a link to this "research"
+Je suis Jozi look around you. And see and OBSERVE...That's the best way you will arrive to the above conclusions. I am not a sexologist, but I know that most species are monogomous or at least indulge in serial monogamy. If a spouse dies, then only they will take on another, including birds, except maybe dogs...any bitch in heat will do for a dog...so choose what you want to be. I'm not advocating any kind of behavior. Just giving you the outcomes I've seen the misery amongst friends I've had, who have suffered because of infidelity. Do what you please and if you can survive the consequences, emotionally then post your experience of the joy you've experienced because you cheated on your spouse or someone who cared for you deeply and you had nothing else to complain about aside being bored...there again you see you will have to admit that boredom emanates from yourself. If you are bored with your partner, why did you get together in the first place with that partner.?......"oh well" you can say "I was in lust" In that case make sure the next time around you fall in love with someone who is fun to be around with. Then you might not need to fiddle here and there. What is most irksome about infidelity is the VD a restless male can bring home to a woman or vice versa. Some of those are for life and women can hide stuff in their vaginas, you wouldn't even know about. When you are all heated up you are not going to ask "Oh by the way, do you have a VD that you may pass on to me?"
Perhaps you didn't know what I was referring to in my question. You said "According to research done on these tribes..they are amongst the happiest people in the world". I'm asking you to provide me a link to this research because I'm curious and I would love to read the paper(s) myself.
The thing is that animals tend to reproduce a lot, and I know humans are also animals, but humans are the species that think differently from most other species. You see, animals are naturally not monogamous and tend to reproduce a lot, which is natural in every way. But humans think differently from most other species, yes it is natural for a human to not be monogamous, but it's also natural to be monogamous. You see, humans have the choice to either find their true love and stay with them without having to think "SEX" all the time, or there are those who just want to do it with more different people out there, which they shouldn't be blamed for because it's all natural. Yea society tells you that you are a slut for having sex so much, but it's really just natural. I mean me myself, I am monogamous and I just look for a monogamous relationship, cus I wanna have a family some day and he married and be happy with just them for the rest of my life. But you should really stop with these stupid comments bellow saying that people can't be monogamous, because you really have nothing to back it up. Monogamous or polygamist it's all natural for humans.
On second thought, people should really just start being monogamous, even if it's not natural, I mean what happened to "stay loyal" I mean this is what will lead to people losing their purity. Like wtf, innocent people losing their virginity to someone they won't love and stay with for the rest of their lives?? Your virginity should be the most important thing to you. This video is just complete shit that will lead to sadness and despair.
Captain Levi ドラゴンボールZ Although I respect your opinion, this is clearly the kind of misguided doctrine that caused me much grief and despair after I saved my virginity till the age of 25 and gave it to a man I did very much love at the time and thought I'd be with forever. My virginity was extremely important to me, yes, but making it THE most important thing is dangerous and destructive, emotionally and spiritually. I literally thought my life was going to end just because the relationship/love didn't last, as I had been conditioned to believe that my whole identity was based on or validated by that purity. I didn't think any guy would want me after that because I was "used goods". By the way, that relationship did last 9 years, but it simply ran its course, and I eventually fell in love with someone else. Love is a fickle emotion. You can NEVER predict how long it will last with anyone...whether you lose your virginity to them or not. You can't keep holding onto relationships that aren't working anymore. If people would start focusing on QUALITY over QUANTITY and obliterating unrealistic expectations, perhaps many relationships would or could last longer, but there is never a guarantee. Just let everyone live their lives in the way that makes them the happiest. One size does not fit all.
Shelli Misoyianis thanks for your sharing that, well I'm not really that person who goes by religion nor by nature, I am my own person. I wasn't programmed to do anything unlike most animals out there, for example birds, they just breed and breed and move on lol. Well I'll just follow my beliefs, and you follow yours, have a nice day my fellow human friend
Captain Levi ドラゴンボールZ Being your own person is the way to be. :) You have a great day as well. :)
I mostly agree with you,a surprisingly level headed comment.If you could clean the gunk from my eye,you'd find a tear.But I disagree with you polarization of options:"either find their true love and stay with them without having to think "SEX" all the time, or there are those who just want to do it with more different people out there."
Polygamy/polyamoury does not necessarily mean a hedonistic fuckfest(nor does it necessarily NOT mean an at least occasional fuckfest :),it simply means loving and/or fucking more than one person,that affection is not something that can only be given to one person,with all others subservient,but something that could be given to anyone,strangers,friends,neighbors,you name it.
I think the myth of 'the one' is severely harmful,even to people who seek monogamous relationships.
The doctrine that there is ONE person out there for me,that I must find and bag this person,makes for some bad things,like xenophobic,adversarial,possessive thinking(SHE'S MINE,or that affection should only be given to that privileged one,with all others forsaken.A town full of forsaken people doesn't make much of a society),but also that people are forgetting what the real goal is here:being happy.
I think there are,for most people,many people out there.I don't think on a planet with 7 billion people there is someone out there for me,I think there's gotta be at least a few million out there for me,and I think that the search for the 'one' often misses the point.
Guys look for a specific woman instead of happiness;or women look for tall dark and handsome and never woulda guessed they found joy and even great sex with short bald and plain fucking ugly.But the great thing about polyamoury is that you could have both,and maybe both are key to your happiness.I think love and sex should be shared,that love and sex are more of a social act than we are taught,that you can have both love AND sex with everyone in town and it would do all of you a lot of good.Of course,that's a bit idealistic,but I would like to see such a world,idealism and all.
I feel very close to your search. However, I'm on the other side of the door. What would your advice be to someone who finds monogamy easy and satisfying but who's dating someone who isn't a monogamist by nature? I'm trying to expand my horizons on this issue because I love my partner, yet it's very difficult to come to terms with sharing your partner. It seems that the depth of the love will be diminished. And do you think that the connection between love and sex or lack thereof has a lot to do with it?
Thanks again for your reply. I admire the way you think.
i found this talk very well presented - i liked Mark s honesty and he wasn t pushy also...no matter how hard we try to push that cork under the water it will always manage to come to the surface again I believe it s true but most of us are not ready for it yet
Finally... so politically correct and shy about it... but finally.
I think that's something that needs to come up as soon as possible!
4:50 OR did you just not truly want to be with her?
Nicole Manning -.- Yeah, you know, this is the problem. Nobody can talk about this without at least someone going "Oh right, you OBVIOUSLY just did not love your partner enough, otherwise you wouldn't have those feelings".
Yeah, congratulations, good job shaming someone there...
Love is relative, but bottom line if you want to be faithful you will be
I agree, thanks for your response.
People should try Polyamory.
It might be the answer for some.
Communication is key.
Yes, people can try everything, but do not forget the result of Sodom and Gomorrah.
I don't think monogamy is necessarily unachievable. But I think one of the problems with relationships is that monogamy is taken for granted. It doesn't matter whether partners are monogamous or polygamous, what matters is that all partners consent to and are honest about the kind of relationship they have. Don't assume you should be monogamous, but make it a topic that is available to discussion. Don't cheat behind your partner's back, but agree toghether about what kind of (sexual) relationship is good and fair for both partners. If both partners choose to be monogamous that's fine, but if they both choose not te be that's also fine as long as they both consent to it. Oops, exactly what he said basically. I was typing while listening, and he talked about right after I typed it. :P So yeah, I agree.
you are right , people are afraid to be judged and rejected and prefer to cheat and lie, also for their own self image , the communication link between people is often very blocked
8:05
No, it not only involves the partners involved, it involves the whole of society given that the person plans to sleep around.
'Polyamory' is a great way for non monogamous people to life their life...........Monogamy is not the only way to go.......
I personally don't think humans are meant to be monogamous, it's a social construct. Great video!
6:39
Why not?
What is so wrong about being up front about your intentions right from the start?
And then, they say that polygamous or promiscuous people are dishonest, because of people like you.
Maybe you re right. It IS the best first date material!!
Is that sarcasm? What are you insinuating? That you can't get laid without being dishonest?!
I don't think he is being sarcastic. Any responsible polyamorous person should say that on the first date so you don't waste people's time
Hi Marc, you're a graceful person! And it is great that you're considering the above person to be right but I agree with you. Being upfront is ok but you have to be tactful and part of it is delaying communicating your true intentions a bit until you know the person a bit better.
Carlos Gabriel Hasbun Comandari what does that mean
Thank you for such a quick reply, and I appreciate your answer. But can I probe further with another question? Wouldn't it bother you that you're willing to do what she isn't?
I agree, practically speaking monogamy is not for everyone. Some people are more likely to cheat more than others, and it gets a lot more complicated as we try to analyze this. So many influential factors, but it all boils down to having an honest conversation with our partners, and what we can expect from each other. It's all about communication and how we can select the best partner for us.
That would be nice. However, cheating people often do that exactly because they like the power and thrill of having an affair without their partner knowing - and they still want to have their partner exclusively. Cheaters often want that power imbalance and open communication would take that away and force them to deal with their own jealousy.
Short: cheaters are most often not fit for polyamory.
If you are interested in more TED on this subject, i recommend you to watch this one. Kyle Harper addresses "the surprising history of monogamy". Very interesting... And funny!! I cannot place a link here but you can find it on Google.
Totally agree. Congratulations for your talk!
Amazingly put! Thank you.
***** Thanks for the compliment... indeed - very careful in my wording... remains difficult how society judges this opinion
Great thoughts Marc... I completely concur with your thoughts. I strongly feel non-monogamy / poly-amory is going to be the next big movement after LGBT rights.
I do feel, that as a society, we're hypocritical in these matters... especially in our coutry (I'm from India). I do feel that we should have the liberty to live & let live.
One area where I would take exception to his explanations and reasoning would be when to break this thin ice with a date. I think the time MUST be on the 2nd or 3rd date before any physical intimacy, before the "love drug" kicks in. In this way the person is not hurt, but relieved that she/he can walk away unscathed. Each to their own, but consideration for the other person must be foremost with this delicate subject. Another topic not discussed is sexually transmitted diseases. However careful, it happens. Even with protected sex. In my imagination, for many reasons, it would be very difficult to pull this off.
Wonderful talk - you nailed it!
Sometimes we ought to go against pressure of society, but is only when society is doing things in a way that give bad results.
Smart thing to do is - Before you have a talk with your partner about monogamy, have a talk with yourself.
Feelings are helpful to make decisions, but if they were enough, we would never develop ability to think at the first place.
You may have a feeling that you should have sex with that other girl, but you also have a mind to conclude that it is only because of instinct to reproduce, and that it would not give good results.
Also divorce and monogamy are separate issues, and mixing them only causes confusion.
I agree that you can create the relationship you want be it open or monogamous. However, who is to say that open relationships are more successful than monogamous ones. The reason why monogamous relationships fail is that people stop doing the things that they did in the relationship in the beginning that made it exciting. If you decide to have an amazing relationship then you can create one. Looking after your partners 6 human needs in a way they like to have them met is important.
I dont understand why some people think polygamy and open relationships are the same they are not. Please research before assumptions. Open relationships mean that both people agree to have freedom in their relationship with each other and it's about destroying jealousy and envy and allowing trust to take over and destroying Pride itself to a point of being able to handle your boyfriend talk about another person he cares about and with you he does the same. This is a beautiful relationship where everyone can have explorations that important to them and is definitely better if you find the right people to share this with. It should be fair to both parties involved and honesty should be most important and you should be able to talk to your partner about this and feel you can be honest with them if you cant something is very wrong with the relationship.
ladyflower Thanks for your respons on my talk, and thanks for your remark that polygamy and open relationships are different. You explain very well what an open relationship is, and what the advantages could be.
Could you please add what you're definition of polygamy is, and how that differs from an open relationship? Hope to hear from you!
+ladyflower Open relationships mean that both people agree to have freedom in their relationship with each other and it's about destroying jealousy and envy
No its about fucking other people that what it is.You can destroy jealousy and envy and still be faithful to your partner
+Farah Jichi No Not necessarily about fucking other people and tell me how you destroy jealousy and envy without controlling your partner?
By being a well grounded individual and attracting people with similar values that's how it works.
This person can't understand the benefit of monogamy, because of family experience, and been hurt with his parents' divorce. It is different having lust or love. Lust is temporary, doesn't last long, love is hard work, understanding, trust, sharing life and building long lasting relationships, building family, building normal society, less STD, less psycho problems.
Thanks for your response. I don't believe open relationships are better than monogamous ones. I think they all have their challenges, and I agree that people that decide to commit to each other, and keep working on it, can have an amazing relationship. If an open relationship fits your sexual preferences better, and you find a partner that has the same - that should also be an option.
I wish more people could see this video.
Some people are monogamous and some are not. Similar to the difference in what gender someone is attracted to.
We should be able to talk, honestly, about what kind of relationship style we thrive in. Assuming that every single person is monogamous and choking every attempt at being honest with what makes them happy in a relationship, that's not a path to happiness. It's the same kind of toxic notion as 'everyone is heterosexual' and punish those who don't fit that idea.
sorry with all the respect to difference in points of view but in my opinion, what i just heard is a complete distorted mentality. People should discuss selfishness and cheating as problems to relationships and marriage not to try to distort a whole system to meet each one selfishness.
(legal) Poligamy would favor a small percentage of males, and harm the rest of males. It is a zero-sum game.
That's like a real man. Great lecture!
Totally agree with this guy. The last thing I would want is to marry someone and for them to feel caged. Relationships are about love and freedom, and go so much deeper than just about conforming to the rules of society.
Each person must decie in freedom. It is just too much presure to feel your life is already design by some traditions some hundred years ago by people that is long ago dead. Lets decide in freedom, acording with our true desires, what we want, lets talk with our couples and make our own agreements. That is freedom I guess, not the posibility to choose between two guys (that some one else Choose) to rule your life over you.
Lust is not love.
+Pac Oo Neither is love denial.
couples open or closed? this is the solution for a good relationship? interesting question!
Stay single. You don't need to be married
It's an option
+Leonardo Rivera Nobody needs to be married, it is one of the worst things a man could live!
+Arcaico Raven Current divorce law and societal expectation makes marriage very unattractive for Western European and American men.
This doesn't make marriage bad. It makes the way we frame it are bad, and the things we expect from it are unrealistic and do not fit modern reality.
Leonardo, why should not every person have the option to have a relationship in the form that they desire? If you want to stay single, great, If you want to get married, great. If you want to have a multiple partner relationship, great. What right does anyone have to judge the relationship that another person has with consenting adults?
I agree with that.
When will everyone just accept that the need to feel possessed by another is an unhealthy insecurity? Lifelong, strict monogamy is simply not conducive to our physiological makeup. But hey, just keep forcing it, and I'll keep consoling divorced friends. SMH
I've seen the best relationships. The one's that make peoples lives change. There was always one individual that supported and the person doing the work was beat, but having a fan makes a difference. Sharon Ozborne for instance. great woman. but we get caught up in smaller matters, letting what we think is forever be marked in government ink. Define marriage at this point. Marriage customs of the world.. Certainly it means more than what we have been taught. never stop learning I guess.
Just up until 150 years ago people didn’t live very long...I believe average life expectancy was somewhere around 35-40 years old for most of the world. it’s unreasonable to expect marriages to last 20, 30, 40, 50 years. But there are so many other factors to include as well why it’s difficult.
字幕つけていただけると嬉しい。
R.I.P. Marc de Hond!
Great talk!
Good luck man to find a good women to take care of your family having this kind of thinking you have, where you prioritize the momentaneous pleasure.
Love this!
Do y'all think he would not think that way if his parents stayed together? What I understand is that his psyche is shaken.
Hmmm. Interesting question. Could be. Though, I do think there are people who are authentically Poly and others who are authentically monogamous.
And I think, most men are naturally Poly. But hide it because of the expectations of mainstream society..
So I do think it is possible that his leaning is just more Poly too.
you can love the one and feel attracted to others nothing wrong with him it is human
People tend to be too insecure for that level of honesty and transparency. Saying, "I love you and am committed and attracted to you, but I want to sleep with other people sometimes", sounds like a mouth full. Of course there is more to relationships than sex, but that sensitive and private area tends to be the primary focus, not just having a different bowling partner.
I wonder if people hate the idea because they are conditioned to? I am sure there are plenty of men and women alike, that crave sexual OR intimate variety. I know there is a difference between loyal and "faithful" as applied to sexual/relational fidelity. My friends are loyal but, faithfulness the way we use it does not apply. Fidelity, now there's a word. We use it to indicate clarity and integrity of intent and behavior in relationships, specifically with regard to sex.
In ancient cultures that practiced polygyny (one man with multiple wives), all of the wives were expected to be "faithful" mostly because of the risk of pregnancy. The husband would not want to raise another mans children. In our egalitarian society, it is expected that both parties are faithful to the relationship. (Not necessarily marriage any more) People are raising other peoples children anyway.
I wonder if that way would work (making such discussions the "norm"). I mean, with a 50% divorce rate among heterosexual monogamous couples, I have to wonder. Selfishness seems to reign in any case, since men and women are "cheating" at the same rates. Virginity prior to marriage is becoming increasingly rare. Is this just the symptom of a deeper malady?
Maybe it's the system?
Maybe our system is based (in part at least) in dishonesty?
Maybe we are looking at relationships wrong?
Maybe we are looking for someone else to make us feel secure?
Maybe we as a society are not realistic about our relationship goals to begin with?
Maybe the knowledge that there is someone out there that really desires your mate, other than you (and is accessible), would cause you to try a little harder?
Maybe knowing that if you don't want to..... That someone else does, and you don't have to loose or give up that person, might actually free you?
Maybe if people honestly and openly discussed these things, and found a partner who "allowed it" it would loose its draw after a while.
Sometimes, when people find their freedom in an area, it looses it's excitement factor.
I think it is important to discuss such things and to continue to discuss them. People tend to be lazy and selfish, so to be willing to adjust your viewpoint from time to time seems too much trouble for some.
Interesting talk.
Maybe we are assuming we are all mature and adult and rational, etc. but we are not. I'm afraid this goodlooking, smart and reasonable guy is talking to people like him; obviously some of us are not as reasonable as him and will be unmature for ever after.
On the other hand, What about responsability for your election?
We are not the same at twenty or thirthy, less at forty or older, how could we keep our promise to the person we love? For me, and some other people, a marriage is not only about sex or love or sharing a house. That's a couple. A marriage is a contract and a responsability, it is sharing passions, interests, ideas, projects, to create something together worthwhile to them for their present and their future.
Anyway in Spain we say " Quien algo quiere algo le cuesta" and "Todo tiene un precio" ( If you want something you have to pay something" and " Everything has a price".
Choose what you pay for and go for it just don't be so naive to pretend having all and having it for free.
7:52 poor guy sure heard it when she saw that smile...
What's wrong with sacrifices? It's like everyone just wants it to be "me, me, me" all the time.
We live in a narcissistic culture.
Awesome speech
As humans we all like to play God and make up rules society says we must follow.
Monogomy is not for everyone.. we are all wired differently.. find out your personal preference and then seek out or the person with the same desires or wiring can be with you in the relationship you both set things out to be. Then this whole debate about how a person should live their life won't be necessary. It's not right or fair to judge a person's belief on anything. It's their personal choice. That's why we are Unique and beautiful as existing creatures. The world and society setting all these rules means to be they are trying to create robots. And what do robots do? Follow everything you tell them to do! Be yourself and live the life you want to live! And if you choose to find the person with the same ideal of living as you!
He's a little awkward with public speaking, but he makes very good points.
A human is not all about sex. there is a reason why we are more developed than other "NON-MONOGAMOUS" mammals. We are more humane, we are more loyal, we have more self control, we are more rational. We owe something to our future generation, we owe them better morals.They deserve to know what our "free love" parents didnt teach us... that we are more than just perfect bodies and sex-hungry animals.
How can you possibly look out into the world and think that we are more humane, or more loyal, or have more self control than other animals. Bonobos are our close primate cousin and they lead much more peaceful lives. There is no loyalty like the unconditional loyalty of a dog etc.
well, in simple words, I'm not a Bonobo. Humans have moral worth , animals have none. we are emotionally dependent and loyal, we work, we follow religion (even though that doesnt make sense) and bonobos dont do that. Bonobo's are idiots.
Your response tells me that we are not on the same intellectual level and I am sorry for engaging you in the first place. Please disregard.
Apology accepted :)
This does not describe what's wrong with monogamy, it describes an individual's issue with it. This is getting old. Your own personal experience with things does not make them universal for everyone. No matter how much you theorize about the roots of your own ways of thinking, assuming others think that way is merely projecting.
The question u have to ask yourself is: would you be okay if your partner approached you with the same thing.
Polygamy is natural? Eating is natural, should we eat EVERYTHING? If you want to sleep with mutiple partners I get it, BUT OWN THAT SHIT!!! Dont go doing talks about it being scientifically accurate. Thumbs down
Yes, the main problem is that people propagating usually unnatural relationships on the public......
Both evolutionary biology and evolutionary psychology support the premise of polygamy. So yea it is supported by science
imortant conversation. what does science have to say. i'm sick of moral hypocrisy. most of us have been programmed to make the choices we do.
Taking care of myself doesn't come naturally to me. It sometimes feels like a sacrifice. So I guess it's not my natural disposition to be healthy. Also, sacrifice is bad. Lol.
I feel that this man is just trying desperately to justify why his parents relationship failed rather than owing up to the fact that someone was at fault.
This guy needs to read Neil Strauss' latest book, the truth. He goes through all this and much, much more!
Thanks! I read The Game back in the day, and The Truth last year. By now I have 2 kids and settled down. Much like Neil Strauss :D
It's a good idea! Really! Say to the girl the truth about what your thinking monogamy is at the first date! Why not telling the truth from the begining? You say that you want to honest! Be then! It's such a smart thing to be honest after relationships become serious and your girlfriend is full in love with you and doesn't know how to live without you... ha? smiling? yes, you know what will be the result of this date! THE MOST HOONEST GUY OF THE WORLD!
Thanks for your response to my talk. Don't know if you intend to be sarcastic here, but anyway, I agree with what you are saying.
You never know how a date would go if you would tell a girl that. There are women that (like a lot of men) also have a more liberal way of thinking about relationships, they might just appreciate the honesty.
God bless u marc
Same sex marriage IS NOT going to lead to or allow polygyny.