Grace Millane Case Analysis | Rough Sex Defense
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of Grace Millane? What is the “rough sex defense?”
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Bows, H., & Herring, J. (2020). Getting Away With Murder? A Review of the “Rough Sex Defence.” The Journal of Criminal Law, 002201832093677. doi:10.1177/0022018320936777
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Dr. Grande is starting to live in my head. He has a running narrative accompanying even the most mundane activities I engage in. "He told his wife he had to go uptown to get the mower blade sharpened. She asked when he would be back, he said it wouldn't be long. He then got in his vehicle, a 2011 Chevrolet Impala and drove away from the house....etc etc." If I ever hear "this brings us to (current date)," I'll know I'm in trouble.
Lol!!! 😂😂
Yes 🙌🏼
This is excellent. :0)
You are Hilarious!!! 😂
You need a dry dad joke in there too, like "I suppose his favorite TV show is Lawn and Order" as only our good doctor can manage.
The problem with blaming the victim is that it’s obvious when something like choking someone is being taken too far, I doubt that someone is so into the moment that they accidentally don’t notice someone struggling or passing out.
I think that as choking goes, "too far" means "at all".
@@JiveDadson it’s ok if people like rough sex, and some people have a kink for choking..but that sort of choking isint supposed to be deadly. It’s not like the goal is to crush the persons neck..it’s like light-medium squeezes for maybe 10-20 seconds or less. Not sitting there for 5 minuets plus feeling someone stop breathing and struggle for their life. So it’s a pretty sharp contrast.
I think you underestimate the power of an orgasm.
Think you probably need to do some research and see what the young ones (and others) are into these days.
@@BellaLeoLicorice You mean squat cobbler?
The most compelling rebuttal of this defense I have ever seen was where the prosecution just straight up stood there for the length of time it actually takes to strangle a person. People act like this happens in 10 seconds (and 10 seconds would be a long time to fail to notice you were killing someone, lets be real) and they had no idea and it was just an accident, but the prosecutor stood there, punctuating the silence only with updates like “at this point, the victim would likely lose control of their bladder“, “at this point, the victim would no longer be responding, playfully or otherwise“. It was a startlingly long time.
It also takes a lot of strength to strangle someone to death. So he wasn't doing it lightly in the slightest.
I am not trying to defend sexual predators in any way.
I am just an athlete, who participated in Judo competitions up to the national level. As such I have plenty of real life, first hand experience in strangling people, who even also tried to defend themselves, since this is a legal technique in Judo.
There are two kinds of strangulation: In the first one you cut off the air intake of the whole body by blocking the windpipe.Which takes some time.
The other kind of strangulation: you block the carotid arteries in the neck and you stop the direct blood flow from the lungs to the brain. I never used a stopwatch :-D. But I would estimate it takes four seconds for a man to become unconscious.
And in contrast to EPs post, the strangling motion itself also takes nearly no force, if you are able to hold down the other person with your bodyweight.
I obviously never strangled somebody to death. So I cant tell you how long this takes. But it wouldnt be logic, if this would take very long.
But this even supports your point: it sounds very strange (specially for me) but as a Judoka you are actually in the same situation as someone non criminal, "non violent" who participates in consensual strangling sex: you want to go to a point close to/of unconsciousness. But not to a point of death.
And its possible: I have never heard of a fatal accident in Judo or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, while plenty of people got choked out in competitions over time.
@@scheisstag well, there's a big difference between just unconscious and dead, it takes much more time to kill the brain.
@@melodi996 I can only repeat myself: "I obviously never strangled somebody to death. So I cant tell you how long this takes. But it wouldnt be logic, if this would take very long." Again you have to differentiate between choking: restricting the air intake and choking: restricting the bloodflow to the brain. I mean: if you restrict the blood flow, the brain shuts down, because the cells dont get enough oxygen to work. So there is no oxygen left. And the brain cells also need oxygen to exist....
The state of the art rule for first aid is nowadays, that you keep compressing the heart to keep the blood flowing, while you dont breath into the persons nose or mouth any more. Because the oxygen in the blood of the whole body is enough to survive until the medics arrive. So the amount of oxygen in the body seems to be sufficient for 6 or up to ten minutes. That means, if you only stop the air intace of a person, this person will survive for quite some time on the oxygen in the body. Which seems not to be the case, if the brain is not provided with oxygen via bloodflow: because thats the only reason why you have to administer the compression: because without chest compression the person would die much faster and before the medics arrive. There you have it: without bloodflow to the brain you die much faster than 6 or seven minutes.... Cant tell you how long exactly . I would assume in less than a minute.
I think anyone who saw George, Floyd's death would know how long it takes to asphyxiate someone. And Mr Floyd was choked to death by being knelt on so it probably took longer than if he'd been strangled with both hands round his neck. After about a full sixty seconds to two minutes it would become intentional rather than accidental, imo.
I appreciate how specific and careful you were in not victim-blaming Grace in this video. Thank you for the sensitivity, Dr. Grande
Milliane played a part in becoming a victim through her questionable actions. I'm not are if you know that in New Zealand prostitutes often use the site. Milliane used
The most interesting thing about this case is that everything except the murder was recorded by cctv. The tinder date. The taxi back to the hotel. The elevator to the room floor. His 2d tinder date. Buying the suitcase. Taking her body out in the suitcase.
I think it showcases the guy's arrogance. He probably expected to get away with it.
Yeah, they showed all of that on a true crime channel a few weeks ago. His defence was disgusting.
Yes that did stand out - so many cases in the US fall down because of grainy or non existent CCTV where there should have been coverage. Some people don't like that they're being videoed but this case shows it is worth it and if it catches out just one creep like Kempson it is worth it.
It was almost as though his every move was being filmed. A frightening level of public surveillance.
@@Seabird41 What he did was frightening not the public surveillance.
Her father dying of cancer before the sentencing was so heartbreaking. This case will always be remembered in NZ
And the fact that her mother couldn't come to NZ with her husband when Grace was missing because she was battling cancer too at that time.
I didn't realise this, god how sad, and how awful to hear suggestions that your daughter liked "rough sex" xx
it must have been so painful for cancer ridden parents to let her travel for rough sex.
@@leeanncrowley-davies7628 Well, she didn't exactly like vanilla-plain sex, did she?
She played with fire. I feel sorry for the dad, too. What a way to go.
I'm not sure how sophisticated the notion of legal 'consent' is. But this kind of defense seems to neglect the fact that, at least socially, consent can be withdrawn at any time. It's not just a blanket, one-time consent to sex or whatever, but something that may be revoked as the activity progresses. Presumably when someone is being killed, it has gone past the point of their consent...
100% absolutely
This comment makes the most sense out of all of them. Great point! 👍
Exactly. People engaging in BDSM usually have a pre-arranged code word for the sub that signifies they want the sadistic activity to cease, such as for example if the sub shouts "red" that is a signal for the dominator to immediately stop and desist. I don't personally indulge in this kind of thing, so I wouldn't know if there's a reason why someone being strangulated can't perhaps slap like is done in strangleholds in Judo, which means that the person performing the strangulation, should stop. But it would make sense to me that there would be such a failsafe that the strangled person can employ to signal that things are going too far. A possible complicating factor might be, I suspect, that strangulation and orgasm might have a link - after all, it does produce a similar kind of dizzyness, which would maybe make the person being strangled not realize that they are about to lose consciousness, but surely the person doing the strangling should realize that he/she is going too far and that the other person has passed out.
No, my gut tells me that Dr Grande is quite right in that in a case like this one, it's got to be murder. Especially with the added component of the accused not showing remorse or anguish over the death. There might be another side to that story, though, that I'm failing to see.
@@jenniferh7020 Thanks Jennifer.
I was casually reading the comments and it struck a chord with me.
The whole "choke me" thing, I never really got but I am surprised by the amount of women that ask for this...
I had a girlfriend that for her, this was a deal-breaker in terms of sexual fulfillment. I tried my best but just felt really uncomfortable with it - it's not 'sexy' or anything when you have a naked unconscious woman in your bed!
Couldn't do it anymore and we split up.
I just hope she found someone who could fulfill her needs and that she is happy.
@@dbcooper8927 Asphyxiation play during sex is very common and it can strengthen orgasms. But if you are uncomfortable being on the giving or receiving end you don’t need to do it. Also even if people are into it there needs to be a limit and don’t cut off the airway just cut off the blood flow
The Rough Sex defense has been officially banned in UK courts. Hopefully that will bring some comfort to the victims' families.
They seem ahead of the U.S as far as that sort of thing goes.
@@digitaluser1255 as said before. If it’s consensual and done with respect then it dosnt matter.
If there is safe words and checking in on each other ect then the chance for murder is lowered.
@@puccipuu1797 There should be zero chance of homicide. If one person is in distress due to an accident, the other would immediately call paramedics and begin resuscitation --- if it was an accident. But a diabolical killer might do that to make a murder look like an accident. Maybe Dr. Grande is right. Forget the choking part.
@@l.w.paradis2108 Quite right.It's been 28 years since it was adjudicated that a person cannot legally consent to actual bodily harm because bodily harm with the intent to do that is absolutely illegal.
It's not in New Zealand tho where this happened!
“Serial killers don’t add value to any situation “ - Dr. Grande....best quote ever 😂
Lifetime movies?
Certainly not to a date!
Yes many gems this time.
What about Dexter? Lol
They did in the middle ages idiot, do your research.
"Leave out the dying part!" "Avoid serial killers!" Good advice.
She was his first kill and hopefully his last. Personally I have to know someone really well before I commit to a relationship. But not everyone is boring like me🙂. Grace had a lovely family so took everyone at face value.
Richard - I agree :)
Don’t use Tinder or suchlike things. Date people who you know from some broader context, people who have connections . Meeting people like two random atoms is dangerous.
Justine Brown's Bookshelf, True, especially when looking for a choking partner. Not putting blame on her, of course, but just as a general suggestion.
Lol friends of friends can still be psycho
@@tessajones9393 Obviously, what I suggest is not a panacea. But it will hugely improve the probabilities.
@@tessajones9393 , Yeah, maybe some slightly lighter form of kink on the first date might be wise also.
@jojofromtx As always, the exception proves the rule.
The fact that he took pictures of the body and watched porn after indicates to me that he intended on killing her. Like killing someone was a fantasy for him. But idk. This case reminds me of that other case where the ex cop killed women during sex and put them in suitcases. The ex cop also said he didn’t mean to kill them.
They will say that to try to escape severe sentencing, but he went on another date after killing grace
Yeah, those actions reveal his motive.
How many of us put Dr. Grande on to fall asleep? His voice is such an even tone it makes my sensory overload from the day chill out. It feels like ASMR for me. I mean I am here for the content all day, but it's always my night time noise.
I actually do listen to him to fall asleep. He seems to be able to talk the horror out of any event. I find that really really calming... and relaxing and reassuring.
@@annenextdoor612 He is so calm and measured when talking about shovels and burying bodies. Remarkable.
I used his videos to fall asleep my entire pregnancy lol and now too
I don’t like ASMR but fall asleep to old Dr Grande videos. Never the new ones!
I do this too
The "what ifs" that the girl who went out with him the next night must have felt...and still feels to this day, I imagine.
A life changing experience I’m sure
"Some people are not good at setting limits." Truer words have never been spoken. Very interesting...and great advice.
I love where he says "Avoid serial killers.." XD
@@jenniferh7020 I know. Right. He's hilarious.🤣
You may relate to that statement but I'll politefully suggest there have been words spoken more true
She was so goregous just such a shame. I'm so sorry for her loss RIP precious one❤
Thank you for reminding us that serial killers do not add value to any situation and are universally destructive. You’re a real peach Dr. Grande! 🍑 How the heck you say these things with a straight face I’ll never know…
That rough s*x defense is a joke and should be illegal to use. No one consents to being murdered.
Unfortunately there have been a couple cases where someone did. There was the case of Bernd Brandes who consented to being eaten by a cannibal.
@@dannycarrington1601 Yeah, except you can poll 5 million people from any random country, and i imagine all of them would give a hard 'no' in regards to being cannibalized. Did something that flimsy actually get taken seriously?
@@mc_zittrer8793 Armin Meiwes, the cannibal, was originally only convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to 8 1/2 years. He was later retried, convicted of murder and sentenced to life imprisonment. This case was in Germany where retrying a convict for a more serious offense is legal, this would not have been allowed in the U.S. When Meiwes was featured in the German press there were many personal ads placed by people either wanting to be cannibalized or seeking victims.
Correction: some people do sometimes consent to being killed.
But accidents do happen. People accidentally kill their selves when trying to choke their selves while masturbating.
Not saying that happened with this case but it is entirely possible.
Thanks so much for doing this one Dr Grande. This case absolutely haunted us her in NZ. Rip beautiful Grace 😔
that woman he dated afterwards must have felt so ill when she found out. 💔
I would lose my absolute shit if that was me
I’m a New Zealander. When this first aired as a missing persons case, kiwis got right in behind it. It got traction fast.
Just wanted to mention that Graces Mum was going through cancer treatment in the Uk before Grace went on her OE.
Detective Inspector Scott Beard who was heading the case got cancer whilst working on this case.
Graces Dad developed cancer after Graces death and he passed away a week before sentencing. Such a sad case in many ways. RIP Grace ❤️
Dr. Grande's ASMR voice + his wit + the unconventional topic = me feeling guilty for laughing this hard considering it's a murder video. Also, I like the new glasses.
I need the tension release, and the sense of having some power over my fate. These types of criminals haunt me. I know it could happen to anyone. Knowledge gives us some power. Laughing breaks up the shiver going down my spine.
Im so glad you have children, Dr. grande. You're perfect for that; calm and collected, empathic and kind.
Rough sex defence is literally “she was asking for it”
I will not defend that defense, but that's not what it is literally or (more accurately) figuratively.
yea , ive heard from someone who killed by choking and he said that it was harder then he thought to kill them.
this guy definitly knew
@@rockyevans1584 uh yeah it is.
@@beefortebrea9386 not at all, if you care to clarify your position I'm all ears. That's nonsense tho, don't be so emotional
Isn’t it a shame that she was the victim and yet she got dragged for her sexual tendencies and her parents and the whole world got to hear about it? Wouldn’t it be obvious if someone was dying during rough sex? Even without a safe word , there has to be a difference between pleasure and torture
But for sadists and narcissists "torture" is pleasure. Definition of such term is subjective. So who wins in toeture and pleasure definition?
No shit Sherlock!
@Pois Chiche It's more like she shouldn't have put herself in the position to be vulnerable like that with someone she had almost zero history with. Her "fault" in this is NOT that she was into BDSM. Two consenting trusting people can have whatever relationship they want.
The issue with what she did is that she essentially offered herself up on a platter to a stranger who in a way was her preferred highest bidder.
Have you even seen the Hostel movies? Kind of reminds me of that.
Yes, he may not have paid for her, but he ticked all the right boxes in the right places for her, and then it was off to the races (or gallows)!
@Pois Chiche Well, I am assuming that you never have NOR ever will fornicate at all since you cast that stone, so that's good for you. Otherwise that would be hypocritical.
Yes, she seemed to be a dim-witted and slutty individual, but she did not deserve to be executed for that.
However, in the end it does not matter one iota.
She paid a heavy price for her lust and desire for attention.
But it is not our role to judge. Humans have no legs to stand on.
@@GeistInTheMachine so you're saying this was her fault. Not the muderer's fault.
How sad for her😔. I tried dating sites 10 yrs ago & found 9 of 1900 profiles decent. Tinder and the rest are magnets for narcissists...would not do it again. Thanks Dr G💚💛
Rough sex isn’t a defence in the UK, rightly so. Rest in peace grace. X
@@christophekeating21 what are you on about? What’s that got to do with this? Why even bring it up?
@@gurutruecrimeguru1405 I know.
One of the lessons learnt is that you should never sleep with a stranger who you have met that day. Never sleep with someone on the first date because you don't know who they are.
"They need to leave out the dying part," and other famous one liners by Dr.G
xDDDD
Oh boy. This guy is scary. If not caught, sounds like he could have easily become a serial killer! 😳
Very Interesting. 💗💖💗👍🏼
Not really interesting to the family is it? Did you see the dad at the press conference he had a nervous breakdown due to overwhelming grief. Something a bit distasteful about this. Feels like it’s just entertainment, Grande smiling on the thumbnail with the rough sex caption. It’s a bit sick.
@@katiemiaana I can’t even imagine what her family is going through. For me, these videos are “interesting” in the sense that they attempt to explain what is going on in the perpetrator’s head, what makes someone do such horrendous things. If a story like this is in the news, it’s most likely been sensationalized to the point of being extremely upsetting. It’s “interesting” for me to hear a calmly explained, well informed analysis of these horrendous cases. Over the months of watching, these videos have also helped me make sense of what might be going on with difficult patients I’ve had to deal with (I’m in healthcare) as mental health training is greatly lacking. And my comment should probably read “I appreciate your analysis” instead of using the word “interesting”. I do see your point. Thank you.
@James Rossi I like Dr Grande. But he does make jokes at the expense of young female crime victims. Which is distasteful, this is a pattern I've noticed with Dr Grande.
@@leonieromanes7265 He makes jokes about the KILLERS and not the victims, which is in my opinion nto a horrible hting because a lot of these morons actually take '' pride '' in their '' work '' because people end up making documentaries about them, when instead they should be mocked for being sick losers who can only get off to hurting others.
Maybe if they would be known and laughed at as disgusting losers it would change some people's minds
@@katiemiaana Graces Dad got cancer after her death and he died a week before sentencing
Regarding BDSM or kinky sex, people who participate in BDSM activities responsibly don’t do extreme or risky practices on a first date or with someone they don’t know, EVER. They also get to know partners over time so they know they can be trusted to be safe, and they negotiate what can and absolutely cannot be done before anything happens. Consent must be given, and safe words used if things become too uncomfortable for either person. The type of “rough sex” he attempted is not what BDSM or kink is about, and gives the practice a negative reputation.
Not in my experience...
There are all types of "players" and unfortunately just because you say you're careful doesn't mean half pr even most of "the community" is careful. There's entire groups where their fantasy is rough sex with strangers. So...
I think it's completely ok to be kinky but probably not with some stranger from tinder.
"I don't know how else to put this, strangulation is dangerous"--Dr Grande
Your consistent uploads on such trending topics are amazing
You deserve a million subs asap, Dr. Grande!
This awesome video has convinced me that I had good instinct to stay far away from dating via Tinder.
Thank you, as always, Dr. Grande!
Thank you for this. Side note, this case and others of violence of a partner (dating or committed) against a woman, led to new anti domestic violence laws recognising strangulation as a key indicator that the offender is more likely to escalate, continue violence or kill a partner, and where strangulation is attempted or happens, the sentence is harsher.
Yup! The motivation to strangle a woman during sex is the same motivation to eventually kill her.
Personally, I would not want someone who is into violent sex in my house. If they get worked up at the thought then they are more likely to get too worked up. If he doesn't want to hear your safe word he won't.
I remember this case very well. It hit the news cycles quite massively over here in the United Kingdom. I empathise with her deeply. A young lady on a gap year just looking to have a nice time.
I remember the look on her poor father’s face. The family was dragged through a harrowing trial where they had to listen to their now deceased daughter’s sexual habits being played out in open court. Deplorable. Strangulation and BDSM is not something I understand but, each to their own. No judgment.
The suggestion that that sociopath could be back walking the streets of any city in about 15 years is absolutely unimaginable. I would hope that the NZ parole authorities would do the needful.
I wonder if it would have been possible to give him a longer non-parole period, and, if so, why didn’t the judge give him the maximum. Also, Jesse was initially given a lot of leeway in this case, for example, his name and face were initially withheld from the public by the media even though he wasn't a minor. His parents/family must have connections (the usual intel community connections).
Please cover Julius & Ethel Rosenberg. Thanks Dr. Grande.
I'm not sure what the point would be of a psychological examination of those two. An examination of the evidence in, say, the Venona files would be more useful.
I've known women who are into pretty hardcore BDSM (simulated abduction, physical restraint using ligatures, erotic asphyxiation, simulated rape scenarios...). I really don't get it, and to seek that sort of thing out on Tinder? With complete strangers?! No way...
Very low self esteem women...
@@infamousla815, quite the opposite, actually. These were extremely confident, assertive, "Type A" individuals in their daily lives. It was almost as though being dominant over others so effortlessly in everyday, "normal" life made them attracted to being the exact opposite (by extremes) in their sex lives. It was weird...
@@thatpointinlife hard to believe. Maybe they were covering their innate insecurity from you. But I do believe that's been your experience. Not mine though..lol..
It's not just women. There are men also who enjoy violent submission.
@@nighttrain1236, different strokes for different folks...
If a woman is responsible for knowing the risks, so her partner. There is equal responsibility to keep things safe, that's part of consent. It's not an excuse.
It is never safe to restrict someone's breathing.
Well this is a title I never thought I’d see from Dr. Grande! 😂 Thank you for yet another fantastic analysis, Dr. G!!
Sex with a stranger is bad enough but to engage in dangerous sex practices is just beyond reckless.
I agree. Some people don't value their life. I was also annoyed at all the tearful vigils, etc, here in NZ. They do this for tourists that die, but not local women!
Can society please stop blaming the victim? After I was choked by my ex, I was told by someone "well, you should have made better choices".
How is no one talking about “avoid serial killers” I LITERALLY LAUGHED SO HARD
Seconded haha!!!
I know a lot of people are interested in murder stories and stuff but, if we would actually watch murder videos, would people feel the same thing?
Why is Dr. Grande a savage? Because he says shit like “ he was so disgusted and sorry about the thing he continued to do.“
Description of Me every time I watch porn
@@mysteryjunkie9808 description of us all every time we watch porn 😂😂😂😂
@@pembrokelove if you're feeling the need to apologize for the porn you watch, you should seek therapy.
Thanks doctor grande! Maybe consider this topic: how does narcissism relate to insight and mindfulness? Many narcissists ive dealt with claim to be “highly” mindful and insightful, when in reality the case is quite different, and reality seems to be distorted. Maybe a video about this construct? I love your more technical, nitty gritty videos on mental health topics like that. Best, Dr. G!
Mitch Rothstein
He has many videos on this topic. Look at his older videos. 🙂
I think they're highly skilled at reading and manipulating people, for their own gratification. Perhaps that's what they mean by mindfulness. Narcissists do like to portray themselves as special, it's a large part of their disorder.🙂
@@joannecraft9842 I have watched but I would like a more in depth narrow video about insightfullness and mindfullness/DBT effectiveness on certain type of disorders. Narcissism is just easiest to notice. the presentations can be fairly pronounced
I can listen to these horrifying cases only when Dr. Grande explains them. I cannot bear sensationalized accounts of what is already shocking and tragic. I need a calm, balanced voice and person to explain something like this. I learn so much this way, because I might never be able to listen to accounts of these events otherwise.
I’m from New Zealand and when this story hit the country was so shocked and saddened that one of our own could have done something like this. You brought shame to our country.
Rock on, Dr. G. Truly a gentleman and a scholar.
When I had a city centre apartment in the early 90s; bodies were always being found in the canal. This was linked to gay men seeking strangers for dangerous (violent) sex. It was really niche and shocking then - pre internet. One of my friends; Dean; was beaten to death doing this. I can't believe a nice pretty young girl is now doing the same thing. What the hell is happening to us? This is dangerous and long been known to be so for men; let alone young women.
I wonder if there was even a strong attempt to catch the murderers of the gay men back then.
This has to be your best video to date (in my opinion anyway), extremely concise and educational with a superior analytical approach that even the layman can understand and I agree 100% with your analysis. I hadn't heard of this case prior to watching this video and feel you have it totally wrapped up!
Keep up the good work Sir 👍.
Never constrict somebody's breathing, or your own. Bad things can happen.
What you are actually supposed to do is cut off the carotid artery’s blood flow not the air supply of the Trachea. So the person will become lightheaded dizzy and with restricted blood flow more will go to the genitalia’s causing them to become more sensitive and and more powerful orgasm. Also just releasing it allows the blood to return and recovery in just a few seconds
@@mysteryjunkie9808 It's still unsafe, there is no safe way of choking/strangulation. it's a risky kink.
I'd say using Tinder is a much bigger risk.
An extremely dangerous practice that has now become common practice due to the over consumption of porn.
I know people will find me narrow minded but I want to write my thoughts. You can never know who will come across with an online dating app. Please do not go around having s.x with strangers. These times we live in are extremely dangerous times. Take good care of your self and your loved ones and be safe!
Thank you for the video Dr. Grande 🤗
Would love you to do Marlon Brando. His childhood was monstrous, and he suffered not only from PTSD, but acute anxiety, paranoia and depression. Yet he was one of the most magnetic and talented actors of our time. He could seduce anyone. He is fascinating.
Bizzare childhoods and acting go together I think. There is some connectionn between the ease of becoming another person and the dissociation of childhood PTSD.
Yes he had it rough that's for sure, never able to form interpersonal relationships well
"I like this product. Does it come with strangulation?" That one got me!
Chris Williams (CZcams) said ‘Tinder is like looking for a streak of piss in a pile of s#!t’. I’ve never used it, but it does sound seedy af
Here from NZ, the guy was a creep but the last IG she left sent shudders up my spine.
Now I'm curious , what did it say??
@@FreeminderXIII Something like '2 can keep a secret when one of them is dead'
@@katyr2382 wow that's a strange thing to say regardless of what happened
@@FreeminderXIII agreed. That’s quite disturbing
How do you know that she left it? Maybe he used her phone to post it.
I think if you strangle someone to unconsciousness, don’t then try any medical help, don’t call emergency service’s! Instead bury body after death that’s murder!!
Think this poor girl ran into a psychopath, he was rightly found guilty!
But release in only 17 years gives him opportunity to continue this behaviour!!
Soooo if it was rough sex, why did he try clean up blood stains aye? Doesn't add up!
Dr. Grande : This is off topic but I think that hearing from you on the matter of Jason Padgett who after being a victim of a physical beating to his head he became a math genius. He also sees patterns in everything and apparatus saw time moving through space like a film reel. I’m not sure about any of this and that is why I would like to hear about it from you. Somehow you make very complicated stories more understandable and helps make sense of them. TY!
Tell me more, Doctor. I'd like to request an analysis of HG Tudor, please.
Yessss please!!!! Good request
Dr Grande is the only person on this earth who can tell me a chilling murder story, yet have me rolling on the floor laughing.
I know right😅
He and Mike Oh from That Chapter. Dry, droll and laconic. Love it
"Serial Killers do not add value to any situation", Love this guy :D
Grace was my cousin and I was scrolling on CZcams and when I saw thus video my heart sunk. May you rest in perfect peace our beautiful grace❤️
I'm a bit concerned at the people saying Grace should have known better. She was just a young girl looking for fun on her overseas adventure. Saying she should have known better and not be so irresponsible kind of perpetuates the idea that it is the murder victim's responsibility to not get murdered. I remember being that young and I thought the way most young people think... this will be great, I'll have fun, I can handle it. It's not until you get older and life experience teaches you to have boundaries and that certain things and people never turn out well. Pretending that anyone is born with the knowledge to avoid this type of thing is just plain wrong.
Natural selection is part of life. Not trying to sound callous but you have to take responsibility for your own safety. A stranger that you met on tinder is a quick path to meeting a psychopath.
Sorta like walking through a bad part of town at night drunk with your ear buds in and watching videos on your phone.
Probably just bad parenting and bad upbringing, unaware how cruel the world can be sometimes and life isn't always unicorns and rainbows.
@@Spookshow1000 I disagree with you on some of your points. I understand you don't want to sound callous but you kinda do. Murder victim = natural selection?! *Murder victim = they were murdered* A psychopath/murder/rapist etc. can literally be anyone. They could be found anywhere from your neighbor to online. Pls dont get me wrong: we need to be cautious of not just the internet but *all around us* But if your gonna blame someone blame Jesse the MURDER: his childhood, his genetics and his crime. Not trying to hate but that's victim blaming...
Not an expert but from what I know my psychology classes, the belief in a just world can lead to victim blaming or thoughts of "you get what you deserve". It's a way some people try to feel safer or justify this belief. Some don't want to acknowledge that this could happen to them.
Trusting someone: from a stranger to a spouse. If a murder wants to murder (regardless or where/how they meet their victim): they will murder.
Also the more tragic the crime the more prone people will victim blame. I hope you aren't offended but please try to reconsider how you are viewing this bc based on what you said earlier you dont want to sound callous and I dont think your intention is to victim blame.
@@Citcat1 Maybe more consequences to actions. She put herself into that situation.
I don't blame her for being killed and it is a sad reality that stuff like this happens, thankfully rarely.
As an adult and making the decision to have sex with a complete stranger she met on tinder and asking that person to strangle you while doing it there is no way I can say she is completely blameless. The decision making process or lack thereof is flawed.
I am not blaming her for being murdered (the partner should get everything the law can throw at him) but for putting herself in that position. It shows a lack of judgement to the point of where it helped kill her in the end. It's insane to do something like this from Any standpoint.
@@Spookshow1000 I'm no expert but in Canada people are victims of violent crime more so by people they know.
Like I mentioned before: anyone and at anytime a violentl crime could occur. To an extent media can create the illusory correlation when it comes to "stranger danger" and online interactions (we think there is a relationship btw two variables or we think the relationship is stronger than it actually is). Like we think these crimes are more likely to occur from a stranger when the stats state violent crime tend to occur from someone you know. But all violent crimes regardless of whom committed them is good to know about. Just be cautious all around: from online to knowing resources that can help you if your in a violent situation with someone you know. (Ex. Helplines or 911 in cases of spousal abuse)
Also, I would explain how/why this happened with most emphasis on the perpetrator. Not the victim, as that stream of thought that could atleast increase the chance of victim blaming. Like a 75:25 explanation of perp/victim explination. Idk that's just me maybe.
But I respect your POV. I just think perhaps your working was off with the "natural selection" statement ... It came off a bit callous or maybe a nicer word was cold. Like not trying to hate, just a suggestion👍
@@Citcat1 I can tell you have a very big heart and maybe have lost someone from a murder.
I on the other hand can come off as an ass hat. In my life I have dealt with a lot of death to the point where it hurts to care so I hardly do anymore. Doing cognitive whatever the shrink calls it therapy and it has helped lol.
So, sorry for offending you and hope you have an outstanding weekend.
On behalf of New Zealand, Aotearoa. We do not claim him. Rest in Peace Grace ❤
Denial is a river. You have to claim him. He is in your jail. He is there so you don't have to unwittingly meet him.
@@mrparlanejxtra He may be in our jails but he isn't one of us.
@@simone6888 He is a new Zealander. He is one of us.
@@pearlbonnie1369 He can be part of your whānau then cause he ain't in mine.
@@simone6888 Don't be silly. He is a new Zealander. That means he is a new Zealander. He is one of us, new Zealanders. It has nothing to do with families.
The dead person can’t tell you that they actually consented. The perpetrator can strangle them and use that defense. The dead person cannot speak for themselves. Was there an agreement signed by both parties? No? Well then, it’s murder.
This is why it's important to know the person
It’s important to keep both feet firmly planted in reality in these type relationships.
Thankyou for today's video Dr. Grande.
Reinforces to me, why Australians , don't particularly like kiwis, Dr. Grande .
It's the : "Once We're Warriors" thing that they have going on culturally.
The whole "trend" of perceiving sex as violent being, defended, or a preference criteria , or desired ; wanting to be "slammed" etc, isn't,
worth me perplexing my own faculties on trying to, think about or comment on Dr. Grande,
as, I don't know how to verbalise or even want to think about , other than, already knowing ,
I don't understand these things, nor identify with it. My mind doesn't register it.
And doesn't want to go there.
Won't go there.
Because I don't understand it, and there's no point me trying to .
I suppose grace milane opened a door in her lifetime that takes a person to a very dark place... wether she was conscious of this or not maybe it never mattered to her how dangerous a tightrope she chose to walk because the thrill and gratification she got out of it was a top priority to her probably adding to her ecstacy, some people get extremely high on risk-taking i doubt ever in her wildest dreams she ever considered that eventually she will meet up with a total emotionless psychopath devoid of empathy that will put her lights out - he was the sumtotal of darkness or the darkness she invited into her existence by her desires & subsequent actions. Abuse & misuse of sex is so highly propagated as a fundamental right, when sex is expressed in this manner it is no longer a right to a basic need but the abuse of an energy that satiates a basic fundamental need, energy is powerful and destructive at the same time but it is loaned to us not owned by us.
Ahhh the old " i fell asleep..." defense....used by both the guilty and teenagers alike
Fell asleep In the shower, wait what.
@@daveycrocker4466 oh yeah....i do that alllllll the time
Robert ('The Preppie Killer') Chambers used the same defense. An analysis needs to be done on Robert Chambers.
He’s the quiet riot (Dr Grande) I love the subtle joke slip-ins
Reminds me of the 'Robert Chambers defense'. He might have been the first one to use the 'rough sex' argument in court after he murdered Jennifer Levin. He pled guilty to manslaughter and only got 15 years. That would be an interesting one to cover. After he got out there was a video with him choking barbie dolls, joking and laughing.
Oscar The Yucca is on assignment for Dr. G's next subject ... and the big cactus is back from vacation.
Can you cover Josh Duggar and/or the Duggar family in general?
Paused, Before watching Dr. G's video.
Every serial killer interview I've ever seen. When Strangulation is involved. They all say "it takes a long time to strangle someone"
- Ted Bundy
-Fred West
- Boston Strangler
-BTK
It doesn't just happen with no indication.
Fred West said: "it took 30 to 40 minutes to strangle her"
He was talking about his teen daughter at the time.
I’ve always thought it’s a general good rule to be cautious with people that are into BDSM. This is a good anecdotal story of why that is. Thanks Dr. Grande!
There is ethical and unethical BDSM. Ethical respects the wishes and safety of all parties involved (consent, negotiation, means of communication, safety rules and limits, demonstrating and practising these values etc).
In my opinion I think anybody who is turned on or engage in BDSM are mentally deranged.
@@rask004 I’m all for ethical play, but merely applying a more skeptical lens to those that express interest in this type of thing is probably a safer bet. Stay safe and know who you’re with!
@@manilanoakes3966 kinda agree, not sure how normal it is to intertwine pain with pleasure. To each his own I suppose.
@@manilanoakes3966 It is the definition of "she was asking for it".
Her parents learning about their daughter's kinks that might led to her death.... I can't imagine .
Yes, so deeply upsetting
Oof
@@1missbridget totally agree with you, I didn't mean it was her fault , it might be a contributor according to some witnesses.
It's like going to a store and get hit by car.
@@1missbridget of course he murdered her but they were both into a dangerous past time. Choking for kicks is still choking. .
I don't think she her self was aware of her own kink,,,, she sou d naive
The NZ Police did a splendid job with this case, they had spectacular CCTV footage basically mapping out his movements - even to the point of him buying boxes and bags in which he disposed of the body.
I’m so so sad for her family😔 Praying for her and them🙏
Choking is called "breath play". Compressing the carotid can cause a stroke, as well as death. The hyoid bone can easily break. It is thought that a safe word can be used to stop things before they go too far, or, a hand signal can be used to let the one doing the choking know to stop. Neither of those things can be called "safe" for obvious reasons - the object is to pass out! Additionally, Jesse was an unknown quantity. The dead woman did not know all of the things about Jesse that we know now. Also, other men testified that she asked them to choke her. I don't know what happened between the two of them but I do know that she did not exercise good sense. Choking is *never safe* but to do it with someone she didn't even know put her at very great risk. Using substances which compromise your ability to give consent is never a good idea. You don't want your partner using any kind of substance that would cloud their judgment and you don't want to use anything like that yourself.
Such a dangerous and stupid practice.
Such a dangerous and stupid practice.
Violence during sex is too normalized and we need to start stigmatizing it again. BDSM has become too rampant and extreme.
Thank you Dr. Grande for such great content. We are thrilled to be publishing your first-ever book, The Psychology of Notorious Serial Killers, coming out May 18th and your first crime novel, Harm Reduction later this year.
funny he told his date that a cadaver dog cannot detect a body buried 4' deep. watched the first 48 the other day. in that a cop did not believe the killer when he said that he buried the body 4' deep in the back yard because their dogs did not find it. it was there
Kempson had [also] been convicted of nine total charges of rape, sexual violation, threatening to kill, and assault in two sexual violence trials before a judge in October and November 2020 that were independent of the Millane case. [Wikipedia]
Dr Grande, very interesting assessment. I was really hoping you might speculate on the serial killer the Netflix ‘Serpent’ was based upon, Charles Sobhraj. Thank you.
Excellent analysis Dr. Grande. Thank you.
I was willing to entertain the idea that he just panicked after accidently killing her so he went to bury her, until at 4:19 he WENT ON A DATE WITH A WOMAN WHILE ANOTHER WOMAN WAS DEAD IN HIS HOTEL... How much more of a psychopath can you get??
Hi Dr Grande, how about an analysis of Boris Johnson? :)
He's definitely an odd character.🙂
Yaaas
if you're considering consensually choking someone, do your research first! It can be super dangerous! Be safe always!
It's never safe to restrict another person's breathing. Under any circumstances.
Life is Grand with Dr. Grande!
At least tbis is the only channel that we can express own opinion or feeling.
Kudos to Dr Grande
I don't understand how it can get taken too far on accident. Pay attention to what you're doing, the face is a pretty open book it tells all tales.
It is interesting, Dr. Grande. When you are bond, there is no back. You are in danger.
Stangulation is dangerous and nobody should do it. There is no limit in those circumstances.
Consensual doesn't mean and normal. Cannibal from Germany had consensual relationship, one to be eaten. And posted for new boyfriend to be eaten.
Who can say that he wouldn't have continued, if he hadn't been caught?
Cacti🧡
Thank you, Dr. Grande.
Exactly! Asphyxiation is cutting off the oxygen supply to the brain. How anyone can think that undergoing asphyxiation is fine and dandy is either unaware of what asphyxiation is (and therefore doesn't care to look this up) or doesn't give a damn about their partner. There are methods to do this other than by choking and NONE of them are safe. But, apparently, the BDSM proponents consider anyone pointing out facts warning about the dangers of their habits is "kink shaming".
@@michellegosse5597 Exactly like that. I know it was using in Japan, like some message. With some sort of scarf, they have been stopped breathing for several seconds. After it was popular everywhere. Maybe in different form they used earlier in the West. The rest you wrote. Supply the brain with oxygen. It is dangerous.
I feel like you may be stalking my internet history, you always manage to discuss cases I'm currently or have recently researched! Great minds think alike? 😁
What I do to protect myself (apart from avoiding serial killers) is send a selfie with the potential partner, that is timestamped and geolocated, along with partner's full name, and the address we are going. Once that is done, I tell them explicitly it's so my friend can call the police if I go missing, stop answering texts or calls, etc.
If a serial killer still has the balls to go after me with all that information, then kudos I guess....
I feel rough sex defence is akin to the nagging and shagging defence which is "snapped " due to the wife's nagging, the loss of control, the mitigating circumstance which you see more often in the UK, where the male gets away with manslaughter.
As you said the victim is often female, they get blamed. We had a case not long ago where a police officer killed his mistress through strangulation, he was not charged with murder, it was manslaughter mitigated by her threat to tell his wife. Always the victim blaming. It needs to stop so us women get a fair shot at not being blamed for our murder
Maybe women should learn self control
@@willnill7946 and there we have, a future or current abuser 👏👏
With a blood alcohol level twice the legal limit, she cannot consent to being strangled or protest. He took advantage and should never be free. It won't stop his behavior. I don't understand how "rough sex" is enjoyable. I thought it was supposed to be tender and gentle and loving. I guess "50 Shades" made everyone think it would be like Anastasia and Christian. It is not. And Twilight is not real.
True