Why didn't Greece become a part of the Eastern Bloc? (Short Animated Documentary)
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- After World War 2 most countries in East and South Europe were run by Communist governments. Greece, despite having a large, well-armed Communist resistance and being geographically important managed to stay free from Communist Influence. So how did it do this? How did Greece avoid becoming a part of the Eastern Bloc?
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Because James Bissonette made a very large donation to the Greek government to ensure that Greece would not become part of the Eastern Bloc.
Absolutely Facts
something something JaMeS bIsSoNeTtE something something
Who
Don’t forget Kelly moneymaker also defected from the east
@@TheKingOfBeansThe man the myth the legend. The first patreon supporters name read out
Romania, with the smallest Communist Party in Europe - less than 1000, mostly minorities - ended up in the Eastern Bloc but not Greece, with a Communist Party big enough to foment a civil war and sustain it for years. Geography's a bitch.
Welcome to the Balkans.
politics to not to forget.Was it even smaller than luxembourgs communist party?
@@yossarianreborn2904 What the fuck does that mean?
the commies stole the elections
@@GameyCatthe miniorities who pereca big part of that party prolly
As a Greek, I would like to point out that the civil war that ensued between the communists and the anti communists was a really nasty affair that split families and neighborhoods over differences in allegiance. Both sides committed their share of atrocities to each other. Both sides were so eager to fight each other, that they started to fight even during the German occupation
Even now they avoid teaching anything about it in schools because many people consider it a very recent and sore point.
It also became one of the main sources of the "irredentism of the Left" in Greece ( I mean that belief that that the "left" has some moral high ground vs the "right" and that Greece missed out a socialist utopia).
And Greece eventually joined nato although I'm not sure if that was before or after the collapse of the USSR
@@omar-hy3th Britain and Greece were in the original group.of members.
Film director Costa Gavras made a movie about it. But iirc he is on team socialist.
Red what now??
Is "red irredentism" a technical term?
Nothing shows up when I search for it. Did you mean to type something else?
This was covered just a few weeks ago on the WWII in real time channel. Britain was so determined on this issue that it even gave the Nazis a free pass to evacuate all their troops from the Greek islands to the mainland in the hope that they would prove a bulwark against the advancing Red Army. So Stalin‘s paranoia wasn‘t even that unjustified, at least in this particular regard.
Course this was also the same Stalin who sighed a non-aggression pact with Hitler to pretty much split Eastern Europe between each other giving him excuses to invade and in the case of the Baltic states fully annex them.
@@brandonlyon730 and what alternative do you propose stalin should have chosen?
Thank God this comment section had some hope
The western allies used Nazis and sympathizers as "eh, anti-communist enough" all the time.
From operation paperclip, to the BRD just taking "organization Gehlen" - the remnant of the eastern miitary intelligence - as its new national intelligence service, to all kinds of managerial elite folks in germany just retaining their post from Reich to Republic. Judges, police officer corps, states attourneys, professors....
Being a Nazi in the west in 1946 was definitely not as bad as being a communist or pro-russian , which is a bit surprising but absolutely true.
@@brandonlyon730you realize almost every single country signed a similar pact with the nazis before the war right? That wasn't something special only the ussr did. Propaganda has broken your brains people
Something that wasn't covered in the video, the civil war that Greece entered after deoccupation was not a certainty. Initially, the communist party that controlled the most part of Greek resistance was split between disarming to participate in the civilian administration with the national government returning from exile, or maintaining its weapons. Political disputes then lead to armed classes between government and communist forces in Athens, which convinced both sides that good faith cooperation was impossible, thus leading to a civil war.
And that civil war let many Macedonians to be deported from their birthplaces and to never return again.
It's kind of the opposite of what happened in France, their potential civil war was averted by cooler heads prevailing.
E
@@EEEEEEEE F
I learned about the Greek Civil War before but never this part. Thanks.
'However, there was one problem with this plan.'
'It was insane.'
😂
That part is wrong. It didn’t work but it made sense. Italy’s victory over Austria-Hungary was a significant reason for the Armistice as Germany was now open to invasion from the south and they had no troops there (having sent them to meat grinders to the west).
@@emberfist8347 Uuuuhhhhhhh you're talking about the other World War my dude.
@@Dourkan And that set a precedence for the Italian invasion in WWII.
There’s a point that wasn’t addressed in this video: When the Tito-Stalin split happened, the KKE (Communist Party or Greece) sided with Stalin rather than Tito. This is significant because Tito was the one who was largely running guns and supplies to Communist forces, while Stalin largely refrained from this. While this certainly wasn’t the deciding factor - the Government Army already had access to more manpower and equipment - it is absolutely what sealed the fate of the Civil War.
Lol why tf would they bite the hand that fed them? Can you imagine the powerhouse of Titoist neutrality that would have been a Yugoslavia-Greece pact? Maybe they could have absorbed Albania and prevented the Xoxa massacres and destabilization that continue to shake Albania to this day. One can always dream...
probably because of the slavic Macedonian minority in Greece, most of the Maceodnians lived in Yugoslavia and Tito would have asked for autonomy or something like that
@@jeremiemonette Maybe because Tito was an opportunist who actually was the first Yugoslav leader to create the "Macedonian" state within Yugoslavia? Certainly Greece would not have taken kindly to any such claim. And I'm sure the KKE was seeking help from Stalin, but Stalin did not intervene or send weaponry, anticipating that the UK and US would get involved and refuse Soviet influence in the Mediterranean.
@@jeremiemonette Is there really that many people who have nostalgia for Hoxha's rule in Albania?
@@jeremiemonette There's a reason why I as a historian try to refrain from thinking ideologically. Ideology has forced people to do some truly grizzly, counter-intuitive and moronic things, and the KKE throughout its history is a prime example of just such a concept. To this day, the Party remains a Stalinist-Communist basket case to the point where it's a common joke in Greece. If you want to know what it sounded like to speak to a member of the Internationale circa 1946, talk to a KKE party member.
Here in central Hungary there is a Greek village called Beloiannisz. It was founded in 1950 by fleeing Greek communists who were given refuge by the communist Hungarian government at the time. It was named after their leader Nikos Beloiannis.
While many either moved back to Greece, emigrated to the West or assimilated, to this day Greeks compose the majority of this one thousand strong colorful community with a Greek mayor.
(Also, they are probably no longer communists.)
I have watched a documentary about this in Greece. Very interesting.
They weren’t all fleeing.. gorillas were taking them by force.. such as my grandmother with her old mother and my aunt as a baby back then.. she was lucky to go there as ppl where good unlike some other places .. but they taken by force
@@evaggelosfeideropoulos3807 i know thats a typo, but damn that gives it so many implications, im dead
@@Cause56 Actually in this case they were political refugees.
Interesting
Good video ideas:
- Why didn’t Thailand fall to communism like the rest of its neighbors?
- Why didn’t the Soviet Union annex Poland after WWII?
- Why is Timor divided?
The Poland one's easy, they wanted a buffer.
Timor is the last vestiges of Portuguese East Indies, then the Dutch driven them to the eastern part, except from their original landing point in Oecusse.
How Turkey and Iran survived the military & politicial pressure from Soviet Union in 1946 ?!
I do not know why, but I remembered this joke after your comment:
Poles come to Joseph Stalin and say: "Why didn't you include Lviv in Poland? He was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth before the partitions." To which Joseph Stalin replied: "I'm not as well versed in history as you are, but even during my lifetime, as far as I remember, Warsaw was part of the Russian Empire." After that, all the claims of the Poles disappeared.
Votes? Stalin wanted more Votes in the UN ? as in tiny states like Singapore or the British Tuvalu with a few thousand people and area of 26km2 have one bloody vote in the UN.
it’s crazy how many questions can be answered with “because of Britain”
When you have a good century and a half of pure world dominance, you get perks like that
When your a bunch of islanders with one part hate bones for France, one part no natural resources, one part surviving some of the worst weather and food imaginable, and ○○ parts stuck up superiority, you tend to get involved in a lot of things. Heck, America learned from the best at that.
Britan and Napoleon XD
@@NP3GAWell said. God save the King. 🇬🇧
@@emperorkarlfranzrulerofthe2826"And that's why I hate the..."
No. One must try to restrain oneself. No.
"...FRENCH!"
Sigh. 😉
The Red Army also invaded Romania and Hungary with overwhelming force, Romania switched sides, and Bulgaria as an Axis power could be intimidated. Yugoslavia liberated itself and Greece was a military detour for the Red Army, whose goal was Berlin. Even the Soviet Union had to prioritize, and did not have the spare strength to be strong everywhere at once.
Plus, Greece had a coast, so the Western Allies could get there. Most of the land that USSR took was landlocked, so Western Allies couldn't just rock up on a boat.
Thank goodness someone else provides reality against this dreadful videos proposals.
It helps when agreements are based on some fundamental realties.
@@uingaeoc3905 The video is right that Churchill's idea was a nonstarter.
@@shorewall True. Also, Romania and Hungary had waged war on or co-invaded the Soviet Union and thus were legitimate targets of the Soviet counteroffensive. If I recall correctly, Bulgaria joined the Axis but refused to participate in Operation Barbarossa.
There is a lot of debate and controversy regarding this issue. Thanks for pointing out key factors that defined Greece's membership on the Western camp.
E
This is the worst video this channel has ever produced. Lies and nonsense from beginning to end. The BCE forces were fighting in North Africa long before the US entered the war and where entering Tunisia as the combined US-BCE and allied force arrived in Morocco and Algiers at Operation Torch.
1) Britain took troops from North Africa to fight in Greece when Hitler attacked.
2) Stalin-USSR was an ally of Germany at that time and did not intervene.
3) The UK's intervention delayed Barbarossa by a month.
4) The Greeks were mainly occupied by Italy until they switched sides.
5) Churchill tried to capture Rhodes in 1944 and failed.
6) Britain supported Tito and Stalin did not.
7) Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary switched sides which allowed the Red Army to transit without fighting through them. The Red Army did not have to go near Greece or indeed Yugoslavia.
What's the controversy?
@@cashewnuttel9054 Listen to the litany of distortions in the opening segment - which I contradict in detail.,
Thecideo is not full analysis. The civil war was brutal and the out omen was uncertain
I love how this channel answers questions I never thought to ask but am very interested in knowing the answers to.
I legit said out loud "that's an interesting question" when I clicked on this video haha
Problem is that Its always just the point of view of westen books.
E
The best is when he answers the questions you're pretty certain you have the answers too. I watch those to see what sarcastic spin he adds to it.
I love how "I love how this channel answers questions I never thought to ask but am very interested in knowing the answers to" is posted on every video as an original thought and totally not for the free thumbs ups. 😅
Politics can be immensely complicated, and extremely simple, all at the same time
Fundamental concept: simple
Implementation: how long do you have?
Gotta love Greece and Finland always generating debates about whether they're in western or eastern Europe (they're in western)
Also it's important to note that Stalin and Tito were at odds in Greece. Tito was openly supporting the communists in the civil war but Stalin outright threatened Tito over Greece since he knew that the west always considered (until the 1970s) that the communist bloc was a unified entity directed by Moscow which meant that to the west Tito supporting the Greek communists meant that Stalin was supporting the Greek communist and thus he understood that supporting a communist Greece would really push the west into a frenzy against the Soviets.
doesnt brits and 'mericans support openly monarhofashistas ????
I thought one of the reasons for the Tito-Stalin split was because Tito provided support to the Greek communists which Stalin did not like. Because it violated the percentages agreement he had with Churchill and Yugoslavia providing aid to Greek Communists would be seen by UK as USSR instructed them to do so even though it is Tito all on his own
That didn't really matter. All of the Eastern bloc (Bulgaria, Albania, Romania, Czechoslovakia and Poland) and Yugoslavia gave support to the Greek communists. Only the USSR itself couldn't due to the agreements made with the western allies.
E
Yep. And Tito is the exception to the rule of “When you’re up against Stalin, there’s no good ending.”
I thought that was like one of the main reasons for the split
Don't forget that, during WW2, Yugoslav resistance liberated their country themselves. So it helped them to become more independant from USSR.
I’ll never get tired of the little character running away while getting shot at animation lol
I love this channel. 🎉
"When the US got involved anyway..."
Story of the century.
We should never got involved with that war, and we should never even join the communist
How could our country, that was founded on the principal individualism, be possessed to join a collective us va then ideology that murder its royal family is fucking crazy to me
But the Democrats pushed for war and got it with their new Ally, the murdering, insurrectionist communist
One thing that is taught for the Greek communist resistance fighters, in both polarizing camps in Greece, was the fact that betrayal was not only sealed from within Moscow, but also within the communist insurgent Greece during the Greek Civil War. There was a conflict even between the communist leaders of Greece, including Nikos Zachariadis (the General Secretary of KKE/Communist Party of Greece), and Aris Velouchiotis (the field commander of ELAS/the Greek People's Liberation Party/ one of the main military arms of the KKE), primarly for the question of leadership after the demobilization of ELAS following the Varkiza Agreement.
One thing I have noticed about Greek history, regardless of the period, is that if you don't have somebody outside to fight, you immediately start kicking apart your own house. I think maybe only the Irish do it more consistently.
That's not really true. If I'm not mistaken, by the time the KKE had publicly denounced Velouchiotis, Zachariadis was actually still just returning from Dachau, so it must have been someone else within the party.
@@gnas1897 Zachariadis still publicly denounced Velouchiotis, even in Dachau, for his refusal in signing the Varkiza agreement.
@MM22966 Well you could say that the Greek Civil War started before the Germans even left. So your statement is probably more true than most people realize.
@@user-bi7xd8ry5p Yeah. I always amazed me (not having those kinds of feuds down in the gut like the locals did) how places like France, Greece, Spain, etc were so damn eager to rip their countries apart before, during, and after WW2. Right/Left, Monarchist/Communist, etc.
I’m literally writing my college senior thesis on this question and the Greek Civil War right now, such a nice coincidence you just came out with this! What sources did you use might I ask?
So your professor is just going to think you got the question from a youtube video now.
Good luck.
Wikipedia bruh, these videos are very surface level, doubt they require any books.
@300fusionfall while i agree the videos are surface level. He does use books, and in the older videos, he used to put some in the description. I'm not sure why, but not anymore, tho
Get your own sources >:(
Please do a video on the following subjects:
1. Why did the Revolution of 1848 fail in Spain and in the German states?
2. Why do people drive on different sides of the road in different countries?
1. Don't know
2. England is a shithole
Well, apparently the answer to the second question is because Henry Ford decided to be different and everyone followed his example.
in germany the revolution failed because prussia wasnt about to be defeated by some rowdy peasants and made short work of the revolt
@@matthewshipley739 And The French, Napoleon made people "drive" on the right
@@wariodude128 ye, a thing that most People forget by that question and go on explaining something with Horses is: early cars had all their steeringwheel on the right side because you did brake no with the peddle but with a lever pulled by your arm and since most are righthanded.
Really wonderful video! Some thoughts I’d like to share:
1. 0:17 Really nice transition from Greece to the year! I think you should have that for every video from now on (if it isn’t too much work)
2. 0:39 Seamless long use of the map is perfect! Very easy to follow and helps for comprehension
3. 0:50 You’re forgetting that it wasn’t just insane for the Allies to invade the Balkans, but to even invade Italy to begin with. The Axis fully expected an invasion once the North African theater was lost, so the British had to use Operation Mincemeat to divert their attention to Greece (incidentally enough) to pull it off (which at first went smoothly, given how unprepared and reliably ineffective the Italian army was)
Important to stress out that when Britain asked help from "anyone who wasn't commnunist" this basically meant that the nazi collaborators in Greece instead of getting punished after the war, had a great opportunity to get powerful positions and get arms, to fight against the communists. In the next decades, and until now, the Greek political scene as well as the upper social classes, had a significant part of people that were either nazi helpers, or their descendants.
like the Nazi colaborators were punished anywhere xD. Literally a Ukrainian member of SS Galizien just got a standing ovation at Candian parliament during the Zelensky visit, and that is just an example how these people were allowed to go abroad. In the Germany itself, no matter if Wester, or Eastern the punishments were very light, and often none, as they had to use these people to rebuld their country.
No one mentions that the second Germany surrendered, the new Western/NATO alliance (US/UK) did everything they could to assist remnants of Nazi collaborators all over Europe to quash any sort of independent and/or left movement. This was the real "Marshall Plan." Ever since the 1917 Russian Revolution, "Great Power" governments and their financial backers were petrified of any sort of revolt from the current system.
@@Sig509 Keys to power and all that, as that stickman said in his Rules for Rulers vid
Most of the nazis and collaborators never received any punishment from the west because they were useful against the communists. They literally had a nazi general at one of the top positions in nato.
And Communists couldn't say much about collaboration with Nazis not only were against Greece fighting but also USSR were not only cooperating but help Nazi Germany to brake the British embargo. The Greeck Communists had collaborated with NAZIS so as the NAZIS withdrawn will get theyr weapons.
Wasn’t the Percentages Agreement also nicknamed “the Naughty Document?”
Which, is such a British-sounding nickname if I’ve ever heard one.
Well, you put the whole situation VERY MILDLY... There was a brutal civil war going on, which started before even the axis forces left Greece. A brutal civil war whose scars are felt to this day, in which a lot of attrocities were committed by both sides. It can make a much more interesting story than what you put forward, and this TL:DR version of the situation does not even mention that there was a civil war.
Yeah, this video is trash. An example of irresponsible and dishonest history.
It neglects not only the ongoing Greek Civil War but also neglects to state that this conflict served as the first of many proxy wars between the Eastern and Western blocs of the Cold War. The author deliberately left out that the power vacuum created by the Nazi invasion resulted in the rise of guerilla fighters of various political affiliation who were successful in organizing resistance versus the Axis occupiers and their Greek collaborators. These guerillas, especially pro-USSR left wing fighters, gradually realigned to different ideological factions after the Axis occupation ended which resulted in the formation of a more left/right wing polarized divide. Left wing and pro-USSR guerillas rapidly expanded their membership due to support from various Eastern bloc states, and this caused the Western bloc to adopt a reactionary interventionist response of entering the Greek Civil War's later stages in order to wrestle control away from pro-Soviet Greek political parties. The UK and USA wanted to geopolitically realign Greece and Turkey to the Western/NATO side in order to blockade Russian access to Black Sea shipping lanes, to install military bases alongside the USSR's soft Middle Eastern and Central Asian underbelly, and to deploy nuclear missiles as geographically close to Moscow as possible (all of which along with Western/NATO interventonism in Italy would culminate in the Cuban Missile Crisis).
This information was omitted deliberately in order to put forth a biased, flattering, revisionist Cold War history where the West are depicted as altruistic and selfless actors while the Eastern bloc are framed as conniving untrustworthy aggressors. Almost completely missing are the perspectives of various Greek parties and factions of the Civil War like various leftists and liberals who lobbied for outside interventionism from the USSR as well as the liberals, monarchists, conservatives, and fascists who requested Western intervention. This video, through ignoring all domestic conflict among various Balkan countries and peoples, makes it seem like the native people of the Balkans had entirely no say to their own Eastern/Western realignments when the entire region was a hotbed of post-WWII partisan resistance, guerilla fighting, and Civil War.
@@eclipse_434the ussr held eastern europe under oppressive occupation for decades
@@ducki Are you going to back that claim up or just make it and expect it to negate dr_bonk's analysis?
@@eclipse_434 Great analysis. I've always felt HM was a historical revisionist, given all of their videos take a distinctly Western, imperialist tone and paint any group that opposes those interests as evil. This is seen in all of his videos, but especially in ones about the Eastern Bloc like "Why Didn't Trotsky Take Over the USSR?" where he claims that Stalin held "absolute control" over the USSR - a blatant use of capitalist caricatures (which are outright fabrications) to promote an anticommunist view.
@@tetra.lets ask Ukrainians if they liked being starved by the soviets. holodomor genocide ring a bell? the soviets were evil
I just need to say the excitement when I see these videos every week is crazy
Speaking of the Balkans, I feel a good video Idea would be “Why was Macedonia allowed to secede peacefully from Yugoslavia?”, as I feel that’s a question not often answered, and this channel Is all about that. Once again, great video, and keep up the good work!
In short, Macedonia was a very mountainous place with close to no Serb-majority areas. Serbia was already busy with Croatia and Bosnia therefore it would have been pointless to try to invade and waste more lives on a country with a harsh, mountainous terrain with no Serbs.
Because they didn't really have any Serb minority and weren't all that interesting to Milosevic.
@@zsombortelek8411And the country had issues with The Greeks instead of the Serbs. The reason it is called North Macedonia now is because the Greeks didn’t want it to be called Macedonia because the rest of the Macedonia region is in Greece
@emberfist8347 it had been referred to as The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, yeah
*North Macedonia. Cause Macedonia or Makedonia is a Greek region.
Always answering questions I didn't know I was curious about. 😄
That’s a question that kept me up at night, thank you so much!
Great stuff as always 👍
I didn't know about the percentage agreement, super interesting!!!!
Another installment of questions we didn't know we needed answered. Another job well done HM!
"There was one problem, his plan was insane" 😂
I always find these video educational and entertaining.
As a Romanian, I get always mad when hearing of the percentages agreement, as we were pretty much thrown like a dirty rag.
I mean, Romania is the Mexico of Europe mate.
Tbf Churchill knew the soviets would take over Eastern Europe regardless and there’s nothing they could do about it that didn’t start ww3
Well, don't feel alone. Poland, the Czechs, etc, etc...
The Western Allies had a choice in 1945: Fight WWIII right after WWII, or give some countries to Stalin. Not trying to make light of it all for somebody's countrymen who had to live through the resulting repression/corruption (Ceaușescu), but that was the choice.
What exactly were the Western Allies supposed to do? By October 1944 the Red Army had already totally overrun Romania and Bulgaria. This was just Britain trying to salvage the situation in Yugoslavia, Hungary and Greece.
@@adamlakeman7240Perhaps actually helped Poland in 1939 instead of sitting on their asses doing nothing?
The word of a Westerner is less than worthless!
I always assumed the the local Reds simply lost the local civil war
You're not exactly wrong, this is basically *why* that happened.
They did, and the reason why is explained in the video
They did. It helped that Stalin was hesitant to back the red team while Britain etc were more than eager to back the other team.
@@jic1Did you even watch the video? They didn't just lose the civil war. If the British and the Americans didn't support the king, or if the Soviets had supported the Communists, the communist party would've won.
@@ecurewitzDid you even watch the video? They didn't just lose the civil war. If the British and the Americans didn't support the king, or if the Soviets had supported the Communists, the communist party would've won.
Sort of covered in the James Bond movie "For your Eyes Only", the main bad guy was a member of the greek resistance against the Germans and fought against the Communists during the Civil War, but was willing to sell some recently "procured" british Communications Tech to the Soviets for money. James ended up allying with the main bad guys former friend to defeat him.
You spelled "Bissonette" wrong.
The main reason that Greece didn't become part of the eastern bloc is that Greece was not occupied by the Russians. In all the Soviet occupied countries, politicians and officials who could have opposed the installation of a communist government were rounded up. Some were killed, some were sent to rehabilitation camps (concentration camps) and a number fled to the west. Once that was done, there was little opposition to the Soviets setting up "People's Democratic Republics" in those countries. Greece was not occupied by the USSR, so the communists were not able to eliminate the opposition. That said, a strong communist party did exist in Greece, but they did not prevail in the civil war that ensued, partially because of internal divisions and partially due to US and UK support for the government of the time.
How is the answer not "THIS, IS, SPARTA!!"
I've been looking for answers to this one question for ages and no one has ever given me a valid reason beyond Churchill's stupid napkin, so I really appreciate this video
I was literally wondering about this exact question just the other day, AND thinking "I should suggest History Matters do a video on it," and here it is.
Thank you for answering my questions once again.
Your channel is way underrated
True.
here i am in the comments doing my part for the algorithm. Sure hope this guy gets to the next level
Main key point at 1:54 former Nazi collaborators formed the backbone of UK's plans to thwart any communist or left-leaning supporters and even got official positions in the post civil-war governments. That's why Greece was if not the only one of the very few countries where collaborators did not face any trial, punishment or reprisals. By 1944 support for the left aligned/communist resistance movement was massive in Greece.
sounds like we should be centralist and not left or right...I always said communism was as bad as fascism, but they are apparently on opposite sides...but so far away that they are closer to each other in extremes than they are to the centralist like myself.
It’s a real shame that America got involved with a European war
Communist are pure evil and this is why Nazis exist worldwide. It’s because it’s Physics
1917 destruction of Christian Russia and death of the royal family by leftist lunatics made it really easy for everyday folk to join the communist enemy.
The communist overthrew the government with a violent insurrection, murdered it’s royal family and try to take over the world through ideology, but they are the good guys all because the Americans came and won the war, which is way they still occupying Germany and Japan to this day
@@ravinraven6913It is not as bad as fascism and you are misinformed.
Collaborators were usually killed in reprisals by ELAS or just angry mobs.
But yeah, being anti-communist was a get-out-of-jail card at the time.
There was actually one ethnically Aromanian collaborator who fled to Romania after the Aromanian brigades were destroyed by ELAS. Then, the communists came to power in Romania and they were going to put him on trial for his crimes but the Greek government demanded that he should be returned to Greece and trialed by the Greeks. Dude was probably about to get the firing squad but then he expressed his anti-communist beliefs and they just let him go...
@@thepotatogod2951 You're right. It's a million times worse.
Great video as always ❤❤
After I watch the video once, i replay it again and stop every 2-3 seconds to make sure I didn‘t missed any fun part. 😂 Great details! ❤
Another amazing video
It's a good day when history matters answers a question I've been having for a while 😁
Their loss - they would have lived now in nice Khrushovka apartments!
Lol
the voice caster makes these videos way more fun!
Hey! Great video as always!
I have just started to study history and need to write a short paper about a question (any historic question) - much like the one's promoted on your channel. I was wondering where you are getting your sources from / if they are available somewhere?
A response would be much appriciated! Thank you!
The title of this video should be:
*"Why didn't Greece become Communistantinople?"*
I'll see myself out.
Thanks to James Bisonette for sponsoring a video about Greece!
It was such a blessing for Greece that never became communist, despite the location.
Thanks ! ! ! Great stuff ! ! !
And us Greeks thank god we didn't lower ourselves to the commies.
I think if the civil war went well for the communist forces, Turkey might have got involved to support the monarchists. Which would have been interesting to say the least.
is it just me or is the ending always just so satisfying
It might also be worth mentioning that Greece has substantial debts owed to several western nations, notably the UK. Making sure this debt was never defaulted on (it still exists, even today lol) by a new communist government, was also one of several reasons. For better or worse, Greece was in effect owned by foreign banks, even to this day.
Yeah. Unfortunately many people, including Greeks, don't know why the west really "supported" Greek "independence". It had nothing to do with liberty, it was always about imperial expansion.
And they won`t see a single cent
I got told the debts were from germany.Because of WWII late reparations...
You sound pretty facist, bro
@@gnas1897commies say shit like this and unironically defend the most imperialist power in the last 100 years who carried out multiple genocide and atrocities in the name of an ideology which can quite literally, only function in fiction
Wasn't there a sort of sub rosa agreement that in return for not attacking the retreating Germans, the Anglo Americans and Greek resistance would be able to occupy Greece without the Germans resisting. The Germans forces evacuated the Balkans more or less intact and the Soviets did not occupy Greece.
And they retreated to...Yugoslavia. Great fun was had by all. :(
Great content!
I like these videos about Greece, I hope he covers the National Split they had during WW1 at some point
Great stuff, as always
Always enjoy Answers to questions no one asked but afterwards we wonder why we weren't asking them. Would love a video on the Cornish rebellion and why the language died off. Niche I know.
Yes, I enjoyed this episode.
a very simplified explanation of that particular instance in Greek history (and its aftermath) but still enjoyable...
Because we are chads.
And we have patriotic consciousness🇬🇷🇬🇷
@@Cause56Nothing wrong with Fascism, light or heavy 😉
kke be crying when this dropped
A particularly great video, thanks!
One thing - I understand why you wish to recognise your supporters, but by reeling off the list of names at the end of every video I find it difficult to binge your content.
Wouldn't be so bad if the videos were longer in duration but the bitesize format results in a significant percentage of time listening to the same names over and over again.
Why do hate James Bisonette?
@@chinnyvision 😂😂😂
Fascinating!
*VIDEO SUGGESTION:*
What happened to Greece's monarchy?
Long story short the Monarchy was abolished due to Cyprus. The full version is that the King was a mere figurehead since 1936 and the Greece had a military junta from 64 to 73 when it was overthrown due to the invasion of Cyprus being a PR nightmare for the junta. The country held a referendum and decided not to restore the monarchy that still existed on paper and become a republic instead. Former King Constantine II spent his remaining years in exile in Italy and the UK until his death this January.
From time to time, the prince brings (while visiting)medical support to various border islands.
Churchill referred to the % list as his naughty document. As alluded to in vid, with the Red Army all over Eastern Europe by late 1944, it became redundant as a policy.
Thx, this explains a lot for me
For the first time it's a question I've actually wondered about
Make a video why northern Epirus is not a part of Greece despite being occupied 3 times by Greece in it's modern history?
I think you got enough Epirus already
@@Ani-Albanian Wow i'm sure this user is providing his extremely objective and unbiased take and that in no way shape or form does his nationality affect his way of thinking based on his profile pi- uh oh...
Not just occupied, very much still to this day contain a large number of Greeks
@@iplyrunescape305 μόνο στα πολύ νότια κομμάτια. Στον Φοίνικα στην Χειμάρα και τέτοια.
@@Ani-Albanian we fough you in 1940. And we will fight you again.
One thing you did not mention on the video.The civil war started in Greece was at the Dekembriana incident.
When the German troops left from Athens and the king returned to the city,he and the prime minister papandreou promised that all collaborators would be punished and their fortunes who they made during the occupation years to be divided among the people who suffered from them.Not only did the king lied and gave pardon to the traitors and spared their fortunes (who they made during occupation by betraying anyone literally)but he ordered to the police to kill the civilians who protested in the December.The book that has the title τα ένοχα μυστικά της κατοχής (the occupation's guilty secrets) by Demosthenes Koukounas can give you a glimpse of what l describe.
Apparently you did not read even that book, because there was no king in Greece in 1944-45. King Geroge returned in 1946.
The Cold War is the most fascinating period of history to me. Thanks for the brief summary :) No Truman Doctrine reference, though?
Great video, but just wanted to point something out for possible discussion: in the first 10 seconds of the video, you highlight all of the Balkans and say that it was part of USSR's sphere of influence (with the next image being Stalin claiming them as his own).
While not an expert on this and thus open to correction, I'm pretty sure that Albania didn't fall under that. While it had a communist dictatorship, there was a strong divide between it and the rest of the the USSR / Soviet satellite states.
Regardless, I really love your work! Keep it up!
Greece is a story of how even to Stalin ideals didn't matter. He chose to let die his allies who fought well and acted fairly - didn't murder all their opponents, pushed for democracy, cared about the common and impoverished folk.
Similarly they abandoned their Kurdish and Azeri allies in Iran in 1946.
But when a country had real hatred against USSR and communists had literally no support among the population, they had to purge innocent people and forcibly install a communist government consisting of people known to no one (Poland).
With Stalin, it was realpolitik all day, every day.
Oh my God, how you hate Stalin. You despise any of his actions, even those that are really necessary
@@rustr01 I guess I am biased. But hard not to be when one read about the Great Purge or Collectivisation or all his WW2 and post-WW2 terror imposed on the conquered peoples.
Human life mattered nothing for him and that's a sad fact
Greece: "Thanks for the help guys."
Also Greece: "We're still not going to pay you, tho."
They're at fault for us needing to pay off the funds.
i got three eggs left. im obligated by my honor as a person with Hellenic origin to share them and pay back the debts of the banks and corruption.
Another classic, Answer to a Question You Never Thought to Ask Until its Presented
Great video.
All of this started because archduke Franz Ferdinand 's driver took A wrong turn.
All because a terrorist’s cyanide pill was out of date.
After the Civil War, tens of thousands Greeks escaped to Hungary. Many of them later returned or moved on, but some remained. Not too far from Budapest, there is still a Greek town called "Beloiannisz" founded in about 1950 for these refugees. So yeah, a Greek town in Hungary.... kinda cool.
Obviously that town was named for the Greek communist leader Beloyannis executed in 1952. Really cool detail, never heard of that town before reading your comment!
@@FlawlessFlaw Those commies support Orban now.
"Not guns"
"You tried."
The dry humor is just so good.
History Matters has the best supporter names.
'Boogly Woogly' was unexpected, but appreciated.
Because James Bisonette gave them funding.
James bisonette actually funded the creation of history, giving us these videos.
Imagine Greece became Communist, the Turkish would heated up the beef even more
One of my favorite returning gags is whenever someone wants to do something, but knows they can’t, they’re vaguely threatened by someone holding a sign saying “Silly man”
Spinning 3 plates going strong as a Patreon 😂 , would like to meet this legend among many more .
I vaguely remember from somewhere that the actions in Greece by the British was the last true super power action it did. Where the US couldn't just tell the no. Is that true?
Edit: I may be remembering it from an emperor tiger star video...
I am pretty sure it is as they said no to the Suez Crisis.
Because Greece had a King watching...After 1974 Greece is officially a banana oligarchs ruled....
This reminds me of History Class in say... Middle School.
You hear the words, you understand the words, but the words are being said so fast that there's no time to understand.
There's few videos I watch/listen to that I'd actively advise to talk slower, you're one of them. If not for the animation in the background, I think I would have clicked away, the animation in background does heavy lifting as to answer questions that get raised when you talk.
I'd argue a Short Animated Documentary *could* last up to 10 minutes...
Because Harry Truman, didn't want to see Democracy died in the Nation where it was born. Modern Greece exists because British and Americans loved Ancient Greece 🇬🇷.
First, Greece given its hardships since independence got very lucky. It would have 100% turned red had America and Britain not intervened. Question is would it be economically worse or better than what it is now. Hard to say tbh. Was literally thinking about Greece when you posted lol, good vid.
Worse since that’s a given with communism
Economically worse than it is now since communism calls for the total seizure of private property and to create a controlled economy dictated by an extremely centralized government within the state.
It would be about the same. Greece's industry would have been destroyed after 1991 in the same way as in the rest of Eastern Europe. I think there would only be more population.
I’m literally writing my senior thesis on this question and the Greek Civil War right now, such a nice coincidence he just came out with this!
It could have been in worse shape. It would have lost most of its northern territories to its neighbouring communist countries. The Greek communists had made a secret arrangment with the Bulgarians in Melisochori, a hamlet in the region of Thessaloniki, in 1944, who gave more concessions to the Bulgarians, including allowing Bulgarian soldiers to retain the occupied lands and supplying them with arms in the fight against the British, while also creating a Greater Slavic Macedonia, which would also encompass the Greek region in it. Greece would have lost its primary industrial cities, including Thessaloniki.
If Greece was a communist country and part of the Eastern Bloc, that would cast a very different light on the Greco-Turkish conflicts and the War in Cyprus
It's funny that you mention Cyprus, considering that the Turkish invasion and EOKA B coup partly happened to prevent a pro-Soviet Cyprus.
Funnily it was the Soviets that leaked the name of Colonel Grivas to the media during the GreekCypriot uprising, simple because he was anticommunist even if he was fighting the British. Great diplomatic opportunities lost there.
"Turkish Invasion"?@@gnas1897
In some alternate history where the 1974 Cyprus coup was carried out with the assistance of a communist, Warsaw Pact Greek junta-- set against NATO-member Turkey-- I doubt there would be a single Greek left on the island, and the Turkish Republic of Cyprus would be the internationally recognized entity, in fact and in law.
@@gnas1897 Yes and the traitors in Athens let the Turks take over Cyprus in order to satisfy their bosses in Washinghton.
Now im curious about the greek civil war. A future episode on this?
James Bizenette is secretly behind every major event in human history.
There was one big difference to Greece then the other countries mentioned, there actually were large numbers of Western Allied troops on the ground as the Germans retreated that prevented the Soviets and it proxies from effectively taking over.
Yeah, Greece is all coast, and the Brits and Americans can get there easily.