Reacting to 8 New "The War Within" Hero Talent Trees!
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
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Hey guys, WoW recently announced 8! New Hero Talents for their new expansion The War Within, Druid - Elune's Chosen, Druid - Wildstalker, Evoker - Scalecommander, Paladin - Herald of the Sun, Paladin - Templar, Rogue - Trickster, Warlock - Diabolist and Warrior - Colossus. In this video I'll be going over my first impressions of all of them, aswell as what my general thoughts are on hero talent trees so far.
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Introduction: 0:00
Colossus Warrior: 2:12
Druid Elune's Chosen: 19:36
Druid Wildstalker: 29:33
Evoker Scalecommander - 37:27
Paladin Herald of the Sun: 53:46
Paladin Templar: 1:03:52
Rogue Trickster: 1:11:30
Warlock Diabolist: 1:18:16
Overall Thoughts:
#liquidmaximum #maximum #dragonflight - Hry
I'm looking forward to "Moon-Bear", but I am more curious about the shaman and monk hero talents.
It's surprising that trickster revealed in the state it's in. Oracle and Lightsmith I could write off as ideas that sound good in the design room but just don't work in the game, but Trickster not only is lacking in utility and usefulness but also in flavor. It's not doing anything flashy, it's not adding any cool aesthetics to the class, it's just making you press a bad button more often.
feel like the only way trickster could work is if u put so many sources of the debuff into the kit that feinting doesnt do anything once u got going but then again, why have the first keystone start with that
"a bad button" kek
they didnt do anything with the theme other than name a debuff "fazed." where are the tricks? decoys to trick your enemies? hot potatoing a bomb to the enemies? no mobility? no getaway tools?
This is quite actually probably one of the worst if not the worst tree they have revealed so far at least for outlaw, killing spree is just unusable, forcing a defensive as an offensive is straight up hurting if not killing you in super high level content, and mastery is the worst stat for outlaw, so unless they rework us again this tree is dogshit and useless and i am super dissapointed, cant speak on it for sub, but i feel some of the same problems apply to them to such as using feint as an offensive that grants a small increase in damage window
I am like, one of the few people who kind of likes the tree. Encouraging feint into a rotation just makes rogues like, NEVER die to aoe. Especially Outlaw which could easily have 100% uptime on it.
It feels like there is some interplay with the buffs and both specs but at least on Sub its already a pretty full rotation for dances so it could be annoying. And outlaw doesn't really have much room to fit it either. But I like the concept? I should just hope whatever they replace it with is good too though because its obvious this is not gonna stick around.
Dev is going to absolutely blast with mass disintegrate btw. They have a talent that makes blue spells deal bonus damage after eternity surge, so you get a 3 target 120% damage disintegrate after pressing eternity surge or a 1 target 180% disintegrate. The only concern I have is that it’s kinda anti synergistic with their current playstyle of dragonrage extensions having you use both empowered abilities back to back. Having to full channel a disintegrate in between empowered abilities could feel bad, hopefully they either make the mass disintegrate buff stack twice or change up empowered spell cds to have their cds not synced. Either way, I hope they keep the idea of mass disintegrate even if it needs nerfs. It’s such a banger visual and I love the idea of getting some of Sark’s abilities as hero talents. Replacing firestorm with glittering surge would be so sick, imagine something like ultimate penitence but instead of penance bolts you shoot out a bunch of eternity surges
this looks like raid dev tree, focusing on disintegrate, we still need to see ruby adepts one - which could be focused on mythic + pyre - from what i have seen, it would be - empower - disintegrate - empower - disintegrate and then spam pyres
If you are talking about iridescence, then that doesn't proc from scintilation.
@@poro9084 This one also could be great for M+ if bombardment is good and mass disintegrate will probably take priority over pyre until you get to truly huge target counts like algethar
@@streetfarm8536 I mean just hard casting eternity surge not the free procs. The glittering surge thing was just an idea for more abilities that sarkareth had
@@poro9084 I hope they fix some of the issues with empowered spells in the ruby tree. Almost always casting empowered spells at rank 1 is pretty counterintuitive and kinda defeats the purpose of charged spells as a whole. An easy fix would be moving the fire breath damage entirely onto the dot and just making charge spells make the dot higher damage for a lower duration. That would enable the playstyle of max charge fire breath and then spamming red spells to keep up the high dps dot up with the everburning flame talent, similar to how frost dks play around extending breath for as long as possible. It would also fix the problem of instant cast fire breath on pull ripping threat from tanks by spreading the damage out over a few seconds instead of instantly
For Arms, at the moment Anger Management is getting your Warbreaker/Collosus Smash cooldown down to around 25-30 seconds, so depending on how much CD you're getting on Demolish you might be looking at lining up Demolish with every CS, which lines up with Avatar after 3 uses. You're also getting so much crit from your spec tree that we shouldn't be too concerned about all the crit interaction. I would like to see more interaction with execute though, the way that Demolish works really heavily pushes Mortal Strike which would mean that you're either not using execute so much during execute phases to keep Demolish up, or you're simply not using Demolish during execute phases which is even weirder.
That is another good point, I wasn't thinking about the execute aspect of arms, but I see demolish being bad for m+, imagine you building up stacks (which buffs like 4 of your main abilities) just dump them on a demolish that roots you in fire or when the tank kites the adds away from you which seems like you may need a cancel macro so your not standing In sanguine or other ground effects which will only be a dos loss for canceling it and have to restack the buff. This makes me think there might be a scenario where you just don't use demolish and just have permanent colossal might buff that boost your bleeds and other spells depending on the nodes you chose. So either demolish will be so op that you will have to use it and make a cancel macro or its too weak and doesn't do enough damage that if you have to full channel it, where some scenarios might not let you, and just be more beneficial to keep the buff up. FOR EXAMPLE: building stacks on 1 pack then next pack you pop it and you stand in fire and your choice is either cancel and waste not only your demolish ability but your colossal buff, or full channel and die and now you don't do anything else either way results in dps loss. If that makes sense
@@thelastspectre8141I'm hoping the channel is just like Fists of Fury and you have free movement during it. I don't think rooting a tank or a melee to the floor for their big damage is something Blizz is silly enough to do.
HOLY SHIT 8 TREES AND MAX IS REACTING THIS IS CONTENT
So ret paladins can either go Solar Titans from Destiny or Unlimited Hammer Works. That sounds rad.
I love that you recognize the trash that is shockwaves placement. I always take it in M+, but the fact that zero pugs recognize the sacrifice I'm making to add utility to the group.
1:22:10 that' 30 seconds on felguard is HUMONGOUS. it makes it line up with tyrant, and tyran buffs felgaurd by 15% and increases its duration by 10 seconds, so you now get 13 seconds on it and no more holding tyrant for 30 seconds. its literally like a 25% buff to tyrant ( since you no longer hold it for fel guard) and a 25% buff to fell guard lol. it's huge huge.
I also think the secrets of the coven will feel cool, like like instead of 1 shadow bolt, you get 4 and they are 150% lol. that's bananas and if it give you 4 shards ( 1 for each bolt which i think it should) that'll be even better.
the real question is... wtf is ruination.... cause it's literally trhe same wording as hand of guldan as far as I can tell. I'm guessing it's just a giga damage meteor or something idk.
the other thing to note about the main ability, is you will pop it as often as you currently pop brand and maybe a little faster if you take that one node that reduces by 1 aditional second. and with the mother of chaos that likely gets you 4 shards quick so you also get another hand of guldan quickly there too. it feeds back so well.
Ret's lookin reeeeeeal fun next expansion
I fully expect Blizz to mess up the balancing of demolish and it be a button you don’t press because the passive bonuses from the stacks do more damage done than the button
100% i was thinking the same thing, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I see demolish being bad for m+, imagine you building up stacks (which buffs like 4 of your main abilities) just dump them on a demolish that roots you in fire or when the tank kites the adds away from you which seems like you may need a cancel macro so your not standing In sanguine or other ground effects which will only be a dos loss for canceling it and have to restack the buff. This makes me think there might be a scenario where you just don't use demolish and just have permanent colossal might buff that boost your bleeds and other spells depending on the nodes you chose. So either demolish will be so op that you will have to use it and make a cancel macro or its too weak and doesn't do enough damage that if you have to full channel it, where some scenarios might not let you, and just be more beneficial to keep the buff up. FOR EXAMPLE: building stacks on 1 pack then next pack you pop it and you stand in fire and your choice is either cancel and waste not only your demolish ability but your colossal buff, or full channel and die and now you don't do anything else either way results in dps loss. If that makes sense
Maybe you can move while channeling. Im thinking of something like rampage from fury
@@DarsusDThey already confirmed you are fully rooted during the channel
@@CommanderLex lol thats so stupid
The tricks node would work much better in the class tree as a random utility thing that any rogue could take whenever, but doesn't have to...
i hope the feral - guardian hero tree is good too, the bleeding / physical build is much more enjoyable to play for me personally, since having raze as a extra button it's way more fun.
I was expecting Feral/Guardian to be Bleed focused, since both specs have a bleed baseline already. But them making Feral/Tree work with Bleeds makes me think the Feral/Guardian may be more about raw physical damage instead.
Second wind in MoP was insane. I remember straight up not being able to kill Warrs sub 35% without CDs or certain hard hitting spells being off cd as Destro because second wind healing was so cracked. Iirc, it was 3% of max health per sec.
Trickster seems a lot easier to fix vs oracle which felt way more like it needed a ground up redesign. I like the idea behind a lot of it its just not meshing together
I assume they'll be making use of the Dynamic Flight technology for the Scale Commander Capstone.
23:40 "yer gonna be droppin' PLANETS on people" idk why this made me actually laugh out loud
i love the first 30 seconds lol as soon as he reads 3 targets OOHHHH lol
6:30 The Blademaster Warrior goes back to WC1. The teacher for Varyian/Grom, Father of the Muradin's and first student with Varoc was Lantressor of the blade. Colossus SHOULD be called blademaster.
They don't want to give warrior Wind Walk and Mirror Image, and they don't want to make a Blademaster without those.
Blademaster should be a monk hero class tbh! Brm/ww and it changes your combat animations to use weapons
Defensive bloat...laughs in Shaman
putting grimoire felguard to 1:30 would put it in line with base tyrant cooldown of 1:30. so we'd take the one that makes it a bigger cd over grand warlocks design which makes it a 1 minute
Colossus could end up with one huge problem, which is happening with a lot of the hero trees. CDR will end up desyncing your CDs pretty often. This is good for making a generally flat damage profile, but flat profiles aren't super well rewarded.
As for changing the game when swapping hero talents?
Yeah. I want that, you can already see it happening with a lot of the trees being either support, AoE damage or bigger single target. I think that's a good change and allows for slightly more build hybridization. You can either lean into it, or you can say pick up the AoE tree while speccing mostly single target for say a Tyrannical week.
i think with the one talent it makes it take 4 seconds off per MS, it might make it a 30ish second one which wouldnt be bad with the 1.5m, kinda how odyns fury is with the fury tier, you just get an extra press before cds. thats what i hope at least
ONG..I just want them to be fun and feel flashy as fuck. I am all for how cool these hero tree animations look.
people who are speculating about Demolish having the same animation as Fyralath must be forgetting the Neltharian's Fury artifact ability which did something very similar for prot in legion. It would make more sense visually to use the Fyralatah animation but mechanically it feels much more similar to the artifact.
I had a great deal of fun as a rogue seeing the new trees get released, eagerly opening them up to see what my class was getting and having my heart sink into my stomach as I read through the garbage they made for us.
i started playing ret at the end of SL and skipped season one of dragonflight but these 2 hero talents make me happy to be ret. im way more on the templer side than on herald of the sun, i don't like what seems to be tap target "degen" with how the sunspots are deployed, but other than that it's still cool. i just wonna hammer people and get a bunch of floating hammer to go of.
As someone who plays feral druid as #2 spec after Guardian, I think Wildstalker is awesome and thematically awesome. The reason I prefer feral to rogue is the healing, and that’s often been too muted in the past.
I just wanna be a cracked moon laser beam cannon bear. Shooting lasers and beams EVERYWHERE.
omg demonology is amazing! cant wait to play this
Ritual summons only to one attack so you’d have the smallest window to try to boost it with tyrant you won’t play around it at all. Its going to own though
You do doom quite often, but yeah shockwave is nuts there
For sure, but I would be willing to bet that a lot more people would call me a shill than a doomer
@@LimitMaximum In a world where people are already saying war within is dead for clicks, you're probably right. xD
It was my understanding that earthquaker. One roots mobs the knock up will interrupt mobs. If your trying to do aoe interrupt. It's the knock up. So 4 sec root prevents physical damage. Knock up prevents spell casting. The aoe interrupt is more valuable as tanks die to spell damage not physical.
that warlock spec sounds a lot like summoner in ff14, cool summons that give u a special ability, i like it.
The best part about them not moving shockwave until now is that arms got a bit of a "mini" rework at the start of DF too so they had the opportunity to do it, they just didn't.
As a Ret Pally who loves Wake of Ashes, the amount of people complaining about the hero trees being built around Wake is wildly confusing to me. That spell always feels awesome to press and I don't really know why you wouldn't want to have the ability.
Overlooked reviewing logs. Literally the easiest way to figure out what someone did. It’s even easier than just watching their twitch or CZcams videos.
they can keep the unseen blades, juste make it during invisibility, sub rogue need les small cd not more, and incentivise a gameplay out of invis for the other tree for outlaw
i think earth quaker could be huge for keys personaly cause so its so ez to hit stun dr at least with some comps
Gaurdian + Resto sounds more like Keeper of the Grove
Balance + Feral could be called Night Warden and have Feral be nocturnal hunters cats sounds cool
I don't think there will be a feral/balance tree?
Feral will share one with resto and another with guardian and thats it I think.
Get that Boomy garbage away from my Feral, I want nothing to do with that abomination of a spec.
Feral won't have a build shared with balance
i'm hoping that by the time we see the enhancement trees we get something that makes Reincarnation an actual viable cooldown. 9/10 Reincarnations immediately get field-goaled from the 50 yard line.
Also some reliable uncapped builds that don't heavily focus on rng would be nice too.
If thrash deals arcane damage would mangle not get the benefit of increased damage from the bleed?
Channeling spells/abilities should be range only or should channel while moving. Never never never give melee dps a button that makes them stand still for any amount of time, with the possible - possible - exception of powerful DR abilities.
I'm looking forward to the shaman trees, particularly the ones for Enhancement Shaman. One problem I see is players won't be happy if either of them favors one of the 2 builds we currently have (the Storm build and Elemental build). After seeing the Paladin, Druid and Mage trees though, I feel optimistic about it.
From what I've seen, players are worried they'll be forced to choose one, but they really want to play the other. Dark Ranger for example, a lot of players are going to want to play that one but will feel forced to play Sentinel/Pack Leader if it's better.
I've also seen complaints that these are too much and will make WoW specs bloated. Firstly, when you look at most of these, you can cut almost half of it out because you're seeing text for BOTH specs, not just one. The Frostfire tree for example, you can cut out half of the text for "Imbued Warding", "Excess Fire", "Excess Frost", "Elemental Affinity" and "Flame & Frost" because each of those have text specific to either spec. The same thing can be done for Herald of the Sun, Templar, Trickster and Elunes Chosen. Secondly, they may seem like a lot because you don't know the spec. The Evoker trees look like a lot to me, but I also don't play those. Ret, Unholy, Demonology, Fire, Outlaw and Balance are all specs I play (or dabble enough with to have a rudimentary understanding) and they don't look bloated.
Trickster seems sick for pvp. Arms wont be able to hide behindtheir major defensive
I really like the idea and themes of the hero talents as a whole (obvious balancing issues aside) and I really hope that some of them also re-skin some abilities slightly to suit the theme and what not. Scalecommander is literally making me reconsider my choices for The War Within, I mained evoker most of this expansion, and while I REALLY like the concept of Augvoker, I do have issues with the way its been implemented - but Aug's existence largely deletes Dev from the game sadly. But Scalecommander looks insane for Devoker! Bring on the Enhance Hero Talents to help me make my choice xD
My concern is the future though...
Blizzard reintroduced the OG style talent trees in place of borrowed power systems that felt bad when you lost them at the end of an expansion. And instead of doing what they did in the first few expansions and adding an additional row of talents to the talent trees they've added hero talents, which is cool and all. But what happens in following expansions? The trees are already plenty big, so will they add more rows to talent trees? Or to hero talents? Will they end up just bringing back borrowed power?
Will you be able to switch freely between hero specs? as in templar and herald of the sun?
Yes I believe so
Yes, you can swap them any time out of combat like talents is what they said
So Glad Max loves how Templar and HotS look. Nice to see some level-headed analysis instead of the constant complaining and screeching coming from the Paladin Community.
I almost always play heals & HotS looks sick to me -- enough that I might even main pally.
A lot of the WoW community (especially the forum users) are hyper-emotional -- let them have their tantrums.
You're def in the wrong areas of the paladin community if you're seeing screeching and complaining, it's been very positively received in the class discord and anecdotally
@@dontbanwarren I'm also in the Paladin Discord. The Prot section is complaining about more resource gen, and the Ret section (Which is where I'm mostly at), it's alot of complaining about the emphasis on Wake and constant pessimism and people wait for Bolas' opinion on Templar. Which goes to show how these people aren't able to think for themselves and form their own opinions.
@@dr.zoidberg8666 Big facts, glad you like what you see!
Screw the class discords, as a ret paladin, I'm always vibing and both of these specs are dope af
Looks like my Bear gonna be shooting Laser Beams left right and center! 🔫🔫🔫
They should have made Bladestorm cooler, like suck targets to you or even spread rend
48:30 Damn. That really hurt to hear as a Frost DK.
3:20 well max... it could be worse. take hunter for example...
it's taken them 10 years and they still think aimed shot should be stationary to cast with dark ranger being a joke of a ranged survival return and walmart black arrow, we have 3 fucking substitute versions of black arrow and "black arrow" now with lock n load missing from the spell and all we asked for was ranged survival back.
yknow.. the spec that was "too similar" to others so they deleted it for a melee survival spec that copies half of BM's abilities, and taking away from BM's spirit bond instead of just trap/engineer based abilities.
I've been a paladin main since I started in cata and I've mained holy since MoP. I also play a lot of ret and dabble in prot. I love the templar tree because what is more paladin-esque than calling down a bunch of hammers on people's heads? I'm somewhat disappointed in Herald of the Sun, though, because as an Alliance paladin there's never been a sun connection to the light for me. Instead, that feels more druidy. I understand why they did it, but I feel like I'm losing out on that amazing theme feeling. This is largely because light smith is so horrible and so it feels like Herald of the Sun is the only option and that option isn't even meant for my kind of paladin. I hope they completely redesign even the theme for light smith, because it doesn't feel very good right now. Maybe turn it into an intercessor tree or something like that.
Summoning 2 free chaos bolt matters for Cataclysm because people don't want to take Cataclysm for Single target but the 2x chaos bolts make cataclysm viable for single target.
For whom the bell tolls gives us back a shadowlands ability where Divine toll would deal more damage on single target. Divine Toll is a funnel/mass builder ability. In shadowlands there was a covenant ability that would allow you to multi proc judgments on targets that divine toll hit. Guess was it did way to much damage and got nerfed damn near into the ground. I see For Whom the Bell Tolls as giving us that covenant ability back.
I'm a Ret main, and I didn't know what to expect from Templar, but the name is cool, F**king AWESOME, and yet when you go through hero talents. I was honestly blow away. it doesn't interfere with our rotation, it only adds to it, but not in the way that exocism cleave did at the beginning of DF. Theme Awesome. Power, from what I can fun in my head awesome, because for single target its going to juice our Execution Sentence windows dragstically. it comes with some cleave, so it doesn't pigeon hole us into this just for ST. yeah I can't wait to try out Templar, because from what I'm seeing I might be a Templar main all xpact, and only my spec talents change between and Mplus.
The Trickster one is awesome for outlaw if u ignore the mastery part - however u dont know if they rework the outlaw mastery.
Cause Outlaw dosnt want or have any synergy - its not a burst spec - its just getting flat damage all the time cause u have medium-big damage all the time. It fits very well.
I dislike the basic idear of using feint as a dps button even though I think u wont need to actually press it much for beeing able to trigger the abilitys. However it makes feint atleast somewhat fun to press - I mean its a very underused button right now just cause its a deff cd which is on gcd and its not allways clear for people when it actually works.
Feint woud be pressed way more if it woud be off-gcd - but if it woud be of gcd it woud be op as fuck with that note obviously. I woud prefare if they put the distract one on top - remove feint and get another fun interaction.
I'm surprised Trickster isn't a clone class or something tbh. Would fit the name.
max: tanks hate standing in their consecrate
also max: can't wait to stand in my lunar beam
Shockwave is there probably because its such high value in pvp.
Please bring back the Gladiator Stance. That's all i want for War Within.
I'm anticipating so much meme-ability with steering my Breaths and playing eurobeat over it
eternal flame was considered the "meta" but it could get completely smashed by a mastery illuminated healing paladin in seconds in a raid / dungeon environment cuz of their shielding.
What's the music from max outro
inb4 you go Colossus Arms but never press Demolish to keep the stacks lol. Permanent 20% rend, deep wounds, overpower damage.
I like the idea of trickster, just needs to be reworked a bit. Feint being unseen blade on demand is fine, just needs more things that trigger unseen blade
eternal flame might save holy pally, because holy shit do i hate the tickle me holy shock build
Its fair that he overlooked the aoe damage of the feral/resto talents...
Your bleeds create another bleed that explodes, like the unholy dks postules...
I see it escalating on big aoe m+ pulls, like unholy on that tree boss fight in Academy in s1...
What was it called back then? Exponential dmg? Sry, dont remember it well...
Quadratic scaling. The vast majority of Unholy M+ people don't use the build that does quadratic scaling though ("wound" build) we use a disease-based build.
@@flameninja00 ah I see... seems more reasonable to me.
Is it bcause the quadratic build sucks in singletarget or has to spikey of a dmg curve?
playing feral, bloodseeker thorns are just another secondary debuff applied by bleeds that are going to need to be blacklisted from showing on plates alongside infected wounds and Tear from Rip and tear. Feral regrowthing yourself heals so little currently that unless they return to tuning from Shadowlands, it would probably never make sense to opt out of the healing recieved side for it, would much rather have the regrowth side say that your regrowths on players without any of your hots on them gets doubled or more. Having lost the ability to decurse or cc meaningfully in m+, it would be nice to regain some form of healer helping as an option.
Well, bloodseeker thorns will be nice in huge aoe pulls well u have that exponential scaling like on unholy.
But I personally never press my hots in feral, soooo...
@@edgyguy7084 it's just another clone of the "tear" bleed that accompanies new applications of rip/primal wrath already. It's just going to be tuned so low that it's more white noise that changes nothing.
@@d0tline468 how is it a clone of "tear" if "tear" only damages one target, while BsT explodes and does aoe dmg..?
A warrior friend of mine is pretty disappointed overall. The main issue being that the changes all seem completely passive. Like there'll be visual and numerical changes but almost nothing that will alter your game play, rotation or moment to moment decision making.
Realz waits till last second to fix anyting we will see how quick that changes. months out.
max's response to warlock was exactly mine, saw that first talent and went " oh hell yeah bb, this is ganna fuck"
it's crazy how good temple and herald of the sun seem... like lightsmith is just.... in the bin.
Hearing positive things about arms warrior, nah they gonna change it 😮💨
As a boomy main Im so happy for the eclipse change. Managing Solar and Lunar eclipse just doesnt feel fun at the moment and makes low keys feel awful because its a slow ramp AND if you missclick one button between eclipse windows you fuck your whole damage up. Focusing on only Lunar Eclipse is gonna make this feel like a true BRRR lazer chicken and im so happy.
They missed the opportunity to make the Tree Hero Talents focus on Nature only. Make it so its only Solar Eclipse and Starfire does nature damage and the tree's cast Wrath instead. One Hero Talent for pure arcane, the other for pure nature.
I don't get all the rogue hate. It turns a button you previously didn't like hitting into an AoE shadow attack which sounds pretty cool to me and it provides a high uptime on a very strong defensive which sounds pretty OP, what am I missing?
Interesting that Max is giving the Colossus tree such high praises, but I assume its because he hasnt played much(if any) Arms this xpac. I know myself and a lot of the other arms warrs that push high keys are not thrilled by the tree whatsoever, especially when you compare it to some of these other trees. Quite literally HALF of the talents are completely uninspired, passive damage increases/buffs on abilities(which are in every tree to an extent, but usually the other trees only have a few of the talents in the first or second row that are simple passive damage increases on abilities)...I mean really, I thought these were supposed to be HERO talents? Demolish just sounds very intrusive on the rotation, especially in execute, since it has absolutely zero synergy with execute(if anything, it is anti-synergystic with execute playstyle), and if it is a channeled ability then thats going to be a big L, since the only way it wont feel terrible is if it just does an insane amount of damage...which its going to have to if the tree is going to numerically decent, and since the stacking buff you get from colossus might is almost certainly worth not consuming in AoE(unless you gain stacks back very quickly/it does enough aoe damage).
The shockwave buff is nice and all but...with warrior already INCREDIBLY far behind virtually every other class in the utility department, the shockwave buff realistically changes nothing. Especially since one can assume that a lot of these classes that already have extremely good utility are only going to get more/buffed utility from their hero trees, which means at best warrior stays in its current position, and at worst, it falls even further behind. The spec/class as a whole needs to see some MASSIVE utility buffs/given some massive new utility if they want to avoid a repeat of DF, where warrior was virtually worthless to bring to keys from a utility standpoint.
So as someone who is going back to Arms in WW, Colossus sounds amazing, the theme is spot on, the passives are decently interesting, some are boring unfortunately, but I'm not expecting ground breaking passives from these trees. My only concern with this tree is Demolish being a channel. Channeled abilities on melee and tanks SUCK so much, and I'm terrified this is gonna turn into what Blood Drinker is for Blood DK. Most DK's hated blood drinker and now that you have the option not to take it, no one ever does now. Hopefully I'm wrong, but if I'm not, I hope blizzard will be willing to change it to something else if people hate it being a channel.
No way colossus warr it's even as half as fun as mountain thane for prot. Also scalecomander looks so so so much fun for dev
Shado-Pan tree waiting room
Blizzard desperately needs one dev per class. Waiting 2 years to move Shockwave is crazy.
52:25 Did you just say augs are tanky? B/c I’ve stopped inviting them to keys b/c they die SO much
Pretty sure someone said it already, without season 2 tier set Prism is bullshit. Apart from that, there is currently no reason to press your HP spenders if you are not buffed with blessing of dawn (dusk?). So the first node is already a strong indicator for me not to play Herald of the Sun. The last node is also pretty awful as a heal: you have to rely on ppl seeing the beams, knowing what it is and walk into it; all that while ppl are still unable to walk out of fire patches. Holy needs some proper tuning for this to be any good. For ret it sounds fun tho.
Prism is bestnow even without s2 set and being bugged by 20%. Dont skip to conclussions numbers in what heals fow how much is matter of tuning which is something we will find out much later. What we need to look at right now is the way of gamestyle if its healthy for the spec, which herald is a lot compared to lightsmith (personally I would like to see rework of that) the whole synergy is really good, even more value in crit. And i expect them to make those abilities required for playstyle to be more baseline which we will see much later happening
@ermak7207 Prism does currently 60k per hit if I'm generous about it. IMO that is pretty bad for a spell with a 20 sec CD. I also did not jump to conclusion, i said that we need some proper tuning to make this a satisfying choice. Currently, if things saty like this, it looks like we have the choice between shit in gold and golden shit.
Every ret is just praying to God we dont get absolutely brutalized with the nerf bat before we can even enjoy our new talent tree
One small edit: I play warlock too and since for left side we no longer have to soulburn: teleport can we PLEASE get Soulburn: Soulstone back?
Buff size should be 10 or 15% ngl
Lightsmith ftw
Who looks at outlaw and think "yep I think I'm going to give them even more buttons to press"
All the pally trees out before shaman gets even one 😢
Im a rogue player, and i kinda like the trickster tree, but can understand why especially outlaw rogues dont want it especially with the mastery.
6 rage has to be a typo…
Assume all numbers are placeholders. They'll all be changed many times before they go live.
Watching Venruki go though these and then watch Max go through them shows the impossible task developers have to please PVP and PVE players. (especially when it comes to trickster)
no one plays pvp anymore in WoW
They sure do, AWC this weekend :)@@teobuzzo779
When Max says something is a banger, it's the same as a professional sprinter figuring out how to shave .001 seconds off of his 100 yard dash. It might not be meaningful to the average player, but it means the world to the RWF guilds.
except he isnt talking about numbers
There are literally no numbers to any of this yet so your metaphor is just not relevant at all. This is just about class fantasy
You are absolutely right because Max cannot possibly comprehend when something might be a big advantage just because it's in a preliminary class tree. None of the best raid leaders in the world have any kind of insight.@@Nyeusi
the ratings are misleading because they apply for 2 specs. both elunes and diabolist are bangers for guardian and demo but are bad for balance and destro for example.
From S tier rework to F tier hero talents, at least if rogue talents stay this way more incentive to try other stuff :p
How do we decide which CZcams no no words are allowed passed the swear filter?
Whether they delete your comment or not
Yeah, you just need to pen test it.
Figures they would Screw outlaw again. Sigh...... I may just call it quits finally if that the best they can do for rogues.
Fuck no on power! I wish the hero talents were more like gameplay/rotation changing tweaks. Example....execute reapplys rend. What if there's a node that turns slam into a rage generating ability? Or you can no longer rend but deep wounds acts like a rend when you mortal strike. Like holy shit, most of these seem cool and definitely powerful, but does arms really need the legion artifact ability again? Idk man......feral usually has to rake rip and thrash.....why not have rip apply/reapply thrash or rip etc. Or have ferocious bite no longer have a 40 energy pool for max bite etc. I can go on but you can think of these same concepts for each class.
Devs don't play their own game, that's why.
mortal strike reapplys rend when under 35%, which would be fully useless, turning slam into a rage generating ability is literally a dps loss as arms LOL, i also dont know what you mean deep wounds acts like a rend when you mortal strike? do you mean applies rend, or applies deep wounds, because as it is now, it applies deep wounds, and under 35% it applys rend.
I would like to see more gameplay changes myself, but your looking at the wrong things for arms.
@fiddlesticks6240 to each their own on how they look at things. To my knowledge, it's the tier set that allows your executes to apply rend either through Thunderclap or execute itself. Slam has been shit for awhile for arms.....but I could care less about it being a dps loss.......that's just a numbers thing. My point is about manipulation of core abilities for quality of life etc. This can be applied to all classes. Another example would be for ancient teachings......you have a her node that allows you to have ancient teachings but you can no longer cast essence font instead of casting it to regain the buff. I encourage you to think about tweaks like that......Don't look at it from a dps loss or gain.
JFC what made Blizzard feel like rogues want Feint of all things to be the ability to play around.
to be fair, I think the sun based paladin spec has the problem that consecrate does for prot where you want/need your enemies (and now with this tree your friendlies) to be standing in your circles but movement exists. Shit will not be fun with that aspect but it looks great otherwise. I think criticisms like that are needed.
Aight I died on 37:12
after using the leggo, as a warrior i'm really NOT into being rooted and standing still for stupid shit.. It'll either be broken, or useless compared to how much u lose by breaking up ur rotation and being locked into place.
as a boomer ret, it's hammer time!
funny....they nerf the shit out of binding shot but then give warriors the shockwave stun....
I'm going to say it now, this is from someone to played Arms/Fury at high parses IE 95%+ AND also Hunter....
All 3 specs of Hunter are braindead easy compared to Warrior's Arms alone.
The only Hunter spec that MAY, emphasis on MAY be "harder" than Fury is Survival and even that is mad easy.
Hunter has always been known to be a form of glass cannon while also being a low floor/low ceiling. I do think the devs fail them by not giving them to be S tier just for damage and nothing for utility.
But for Warrior to get utility, they have to lose SO MUCH personal gains or damage just to get something we should naturally get, or get very easily.
Warrior have to lose a personal defense that is strong JUST so they can have utility.
Let's go into Warrior and our Utility in a Dungeon alone. We have Rallying Cry // Battle Shout. This is what we get very easily and naturally.
Let's go with a full Utility Warrior and what they lose. Intimidating Shout // Stormbolt // Shockwave.
What they lose: Double Crushing Force (extra damage at an ALREADY horrible damage dealing ability, IE Slam) // Pain and Gain, gives 3.50% heal of your max hp every 10 secs, which is huge for surviving // Cruel Strikes, WHICH IS LITERALLY dealing with Execute..... Execute damage loss on a class always known for execute....
Now let's see what Hunter naturally just get without losing much or anything.
Binding Shot // Tar Trap (amazing if in a good group comp that wants to slow mobs to gather easily // Freezing Trap (Incorp) / Turtle / ANDDDDDD Lust which is always needed / and a Misdirect. Sounds like a pointless utility, but imagine being a class w/ insane burst damage like Fury, but dying instantly because of threat gain.
See, one issue I see of people complaining the most are Balance Druids // Enhancement Shamans // Outlaw Rogues/Sub Rogues // and Hunters. Hunter became S tier for a big portion of S3 and is still debatably high A tier.
So, if you can explain why a class that only struggles in an AOE stun (even though it can be done if the tank knows to pay attention and move the adds out of your binding shot), is easily the #1 on Low floor and low ceiling, and now has a really good spec (BM) should have more utility than a class that is unarguably harder to pick up and learn, has near to no utility (even Max agrees), yet to be S tier once. The only time I seen it S tier was when classes got so nerfed that they moved up, then they moved back down once they buffed other classes within 2 weeks flat.
This is from someone who parse well on almost every spec but a few niche like Affliction Lock/Feral Druid/Arcane Mage/Elemental Shaman/Devastation Evoker/Aug Evoker/ all heals/ that's all. Even tanks I parse 90-95%+
Hunters have good utility other than one thing, an instant form of AOE stun... Warriors have 0 utility unless they lose a lot of benefits THAT THEY ALREADY semi-struggle on, being passive defensive other than their armor / stamina, and their damage being semi-questionable unless you play at a 100% parse performance on rotation....
With the right group, you don't need BM w/ Utility, should it be like that? Maybe not. But if BM got Utility that Warrior already struggles to get just to lose so much personal benefit, then why would they EVER touch Warrior if they can bring BM for more damage/lust/utility (atp) or an Enhancment Shaman...... When people think of high-end plays, they don't think of Hunter due to the ease of gameplay.... They think of classes like Unholy/Arcane Mage/Arms Warrior/Rogue/Marksman Hunter (not as recent cause it is braindead now)/WW monk/Enh Shaman/Feral and Bal druid...
This is not me trying to trash on BM, but they have their cake and they eat it too other than one slice that is missing. The slice being something a lot of classes mad struggle to even get.