Is the Soviet WW2 film âCome and Seeâ accurate?
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 23. 06. 2022
- Is the film "Come and See" historically accurate? Let's find out!
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History isnât as boring as some people think, and my goal is to get people talking about it. I also want to dispel the myths and distortions that ruin our perception of the past by asking a simple question - âBut is this really the case?â. I have a 2:1 Degree in History and a passion for early 20th Century conflicts (mainly WW2). Iâm therefore approaching this like I would an academic essay. Lots of sources, quotes, references and so on. Only the truth will do.
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Come and See is in my opinion one of a few war movies that you can watch that doesn't glorify war in any way. There are no glorious sacrifices, no valiant heroes. Just utter pain and suffering that was experienced by the population. It doesn't make you wish for war because it shows you the true horrors of it through the perspective of Florya. In the end you're left with a feeling of dread because Come and See dragged you along as a helpless observer. Leaving you with survivors guilt. Just an incredible work of cinema, go and watch it one day.
Nailed it. I was quite disturbed when I first watched it. Its actually in full on YT
Yes. Itâs heavy. Gravitas is huge. And itâs also a subjective point of view, so it doesnât matter what is true reflection of events. Itâs the heroâs journey of the loss of innocence.
There are HEROS. The People, then we
Paths of Glory by Stanley Kubrick?
@@chrisstucker1813 with kirk?
What i love about the move (among other things) is that, unlike other soviet films, Partisans are not portrayed as glorious heroes, but as scared, numb from violence and death, shell shocked survivors
Civillians plunged into war fighting for mere survival
@@muhacnt7988 partisans are not civilians. At least not their leading officer staff. The word "PARTisan" means it is a PART of the military operating behind enemy lines, carrying out missions and orders given from the "mainland"
agreed, its a fine work of art by this director, you can see the costume flaws but this film is outstanding.
If they ever make a film on partisans like the ones in Albania (perhaps to tell the story of how they helped downed US nurses and medics to escape German-held territory), I really hope they show just how much hell those folks went through. The Germans and their local volunteers were at times absolutely brutal on them and they were sure to have had some severe psychological scars.
War crimes are committed by all sides and regardless whose were worse are usually only brought to Justice if their side lost.
It's a fictional village, not Katyn, and the film is indeed "not a documentary". It mixes ultra-realism with elements of surrealism, but what is authentic about it is its emotional impact. That final hour places us 'right there', and we can't look away. It re-sensitises us to the horrors in a way that no other movie can touch.
Itâs strange how he feels a need to make a video questioning the historical accuracy of this film.
Is Khatyn, not Katyn czcams.com/video/fU1ZrsfhuqE/video.html
Yes, I agree, it's very good allied war propaganda designed to support the narrative that we were fighting "the bad guys" and allying with a lesser evil
â@evandickinson3254 how dare he want to verify the historicity of a propaganda film, smhđą
@@acolddarkgentlebruh8205 "Muh propaganda" lmao. Acting as if every single media piece you consume isn't also propaganda
The closest a war film has come to horror. Great film.
It's a very good movie.
And great to see Tik not taking for granted and going through the great process of delivering an historical accuracy test too on it.
Good to see it covered like this.
Something very haunting and disturbing about the boy, the way it's shot, the whole thing
I challenge you to watch the painted bird.
@@AgentLemmon wow. Thank you. Iâll check it out.
Okay, huge movie buff, seen this movie a few times, and I am old enough to know some German's and Ukrainians who lived through these moments in time. I would chalk up the mislabeling of the German unit and uniforms to the soldiers trying to lie their way out of trouble. This happened often, saying, you really aren't this unit or that to avoid being killed or tortured. It's not a goof or inaccuracy, more them trying to hide their true unit identity. Some troops even changed their uniform badges for this purpose or disposed of rank or unit markings if they knew they would be captured soon. Just my thoughts, loved your review, and thought you were spot on.
I thought about this too but if memory serves me the partisans already knew that the captured Germans committed a massacre. So why lie? What difference would it make to the partisans? You're contemptible in their eyes and worthy of death whether you come from the 69th Battalion or the 420th regiment surely makes no difference.
agree 100% never thought tik would review this :D
This film certainly wasn't made with historical accuracy in mind (in sense of which units were involved), so I'm also a bit surprised why TIK tried to analyze that. But well, it's ok, because I still learned a bit of info.
"I-I was just a cook."
I imagine the german army had thousands of cooks and drivers at the end of the war.
@@charlesk22 None of whom were any of the millions of people who attended the pre-war Nuremberg Rallies.
The ending is truly one of the most impactful pieces of film I have ever watched. From the massacre itself, the scene with the captured SS, to the scene where Flyora shoots the picture of Hitler.
I especially love the bit where the SS officer was on his ânot every race has the right to existâ monologue and the Partisan leader tells the translator to speak louder and have every partisan around listen to what the officer was saying. Telling his men to take the opportunity to learn and grasp who exactly they were up against, what they were fighting for, what kind of men they must stop.
Flyora shooting the Hitler picture along with the montage is truly one of the greatest scenes ever out to film. It's incredibly stark, sober, and heartbreaking.
only honest captured german
Flyora stopping himself at shooting baby Hitler because doing so he would prove the blond SS officer's point.."the trouble always starts with children"
Jesus. Just why were the germans then so filled with hate for people who never did anything to them!!!!!
@@charlesk22 true, as a German I feel extremely bitter and regretful that happened. Infact there wasn't anything the people of the Soviet Union ever did to us, if anything the only people that could've been argued for revenge were the Polish and French for what they did during the interwar period and taking territory and discriminating against Germans.
Then again what wrong did the Jews do? The Jews along with the Germans suffered both in Poland and France, and in Poland you also had Belarusian and Ukrainians being abused. Out of all the people to go after we went after the Ukrainians, Jews, Belarusians and Russians. People who done nothing to harm us and people who actually liked us. France go off completely easy and they were treated very well after the fall of France unlike the people in the East were they were seen as sub-human for no logical reason. France had literally been the one responsible for versailles yet they got off scot free whil the soviet peoples suffered.
Overall a shit leadership, even the communists taking power in Germany might've been better as atleast they didn't believe in any stupid and delusional "superior race' theories.
My grandpa was 15, soon to be 16 when he joined the Partisans in Yugoslavia.
He was lucky because his family was alive but there wasnt that much food to go around and when the "Army" came they told his mother he was to go with them to work and pick corn on the fields.
They didnt have any idea he was to become a soldier nor did he, they were simple people living in a village and they didnt know..
So when he went of course there was no corn and he was given a weapon, had a short training and off to attacking german patrols from ambushes ectr..
At first he was lucky, survived long enough to learn how to keep himself safe. To duck or lie down when you are supose to, to run forwards or backwards..
He almost lost his life 3 times during the war and all were near the end.
First was when he was given an order to shoot a captured german soldier, some kid who was of little importance due to his lack of rank and young age.
Some kid, perhaps 16 years old, that reminded my grandpa of him when he was first enlisted.. Kid was scared, cried for his mother.. By that time my grandpa was a veteran of sorts, 19 years old, with 3 years in the war.. He was panicking, he didnt want to shoot the kid and he knew if he refused he would probably get shot himself.. If he is to let him go and lie, kid would just get captured again and that would again get him shot and even perhaps get his family in trouble (being the family of a traitor).. During this dillema he was buying time for himself, getting the prisoner to walk towards a forested area nearby when a young woman, a girl you can say, stood up and demanded to get this job, begging him and the officer that gave the order.
He "reluctantly" agreed and let her have the kid, and she also of the similar age took him to the woods and shot him.
Her entire family, including her little kid brother, was slaughtered by the germans or some colaborators..
So she didnt have the problem doing it, for her it was a pleasure..
Second time was when a boat tipped over (they were on some patrol and got fired at by some germans or ustashe from the opposite bank) and he fell into the icy water. This one would come to haunt him later and this is what killed him in the end, but some 40 years later.
He survived the incident, was well after a while and resumed the war and his dutties but some years after the war (when he was about 30) got chronical lung problems that gave him problems all his life and eventualy he died because of it at the age of 59.
Third was when he wanted to commit suicide, during the Sremski front. He got a rank by that time and day after day a new bunch of kids were thrown in against entranched german and ustashe positions. The kids would just die while the veterans remained (they knew a bit about war while the kids just didnt) and this was going on day after day after day... Until he just couldnt take it anymore and put a pistol to his head and almost did it.. He never knew what stopped him, he claims to have seen his mother and the village priest telling him not to do it since it is the biggest sin to take your life so in the end he didnt do it but that part or the war he always avoided talking about. In his opinion it was just a stupid bloodbath that happened for no good reason since the war was soon to be over either way.. Tito just wanted to rack up as much political points and prove his army to be effective and make them an equal participant.
People turn into animals during lawless times, your stories disgusted me, but thank you for sharing why war must always be prevented and never glorified.
Thank you for your account, I read it with interest and feelings of compassion.
my grand grandpa was also in srem front, his wife coudnt belive her eyes when he got back
Do you know which year he joined the Partizans?
@@Saddam_al-Husseini
It was early on, in 1942.
He spent some time in Bosnia, was in 6th Lika division, (sesta licka) and stayed with them until the end although he was from Serbia and got recruited in Serbia.. But he went all over the place (all over Yugoslavia) as the partisans got pushed back and as germans tried to encircle and destroy them.
But the Srem front was the worst as he stated, due to the terrible loss of life. They were just ordered and ordered to storm german and ustashe positions, on mostly flat ground, where they would go against entrenched positions of the enemy and would just be mowed down by machine guns... Wave after wave.. Tito wanted to make a big push and prove himself to the world and to the Russians.. was a race of sorts, one could say a similar thing (in principle) happened around Berlin with Konyev's and Zhukov's race to Berlin both against USA and against each other.
I am sure everybody knew the war is over by that point but despite that they rushed and forced their men and so many lives got lost for nothing.. Tito should have let the red army push with tanks and heavy artillery just like Zhukov should have walked slowly to Berlin, just hammering the german positions, not storming them.
In regards to accurate props in movies, especially with uniforms, weapons, and vehicles, and especially with relatively low(er) budget movies, one must give some slack. Movie producers, prop masters, etc, work with what they can get their hands on, even if they know it might be inaccurate and insufficient.
About the criminal units portrayed in the movie: the captured germans told wrong unit affiliation all the time to their captors, out of fear of retribution and punishment. So if one officer said the name of another unit, which happened to be in another part of Europe at the time, this might not be movie's historical inaccuracy, but rather, an attempt at disinformation by the said captive. It's not like they felt bound to any geneva conventions anyway.
Good point on soldiers giving the wrong unit name.
I don't think making the correct uniforms costs much more than the wrong ones.
@@ZER0ZER0SE7EN Again, as low budget you rent/borrow what is already available. And for SS uniforms already in storage they are likely to be of the most generic model, either because they were made for some other movie, or even because they were taken as spoils of war and saved for use in movies later (and then you save those you have several similar of, so you can make cohesive-looking units).
Since it's mostly lapels, one could argue they should have fixed just those - but that would have meant extra work into research, extra money in making those lapels, removing the old ones, attaching the newly made ones.. and then once filming is over you have to remove your new lapels and reattach the old ones so you can return the uniforms looking as they did when you got them, or pay extra for having 'damaged' them.
On the flipside though, Soviet war movies tend to be more historically accurate with WW2 uniforms, weapons and vehicles. They captured an insane amount of German equipment. There's no just paint a German cross on some Patton tanks that Hollywood did for decades. Extras usually get drafted from the Soviet Army, who usually brought along enough munitions to start a small war.
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 Yugoslavia had a gigantic amount of captured German uniforms and gear in general. Most of the props you see in good Hollywood movies, actually come from Germans captured in Yugoslavia.
It is also likely that the German soldier that called the other "facist" was trying to endear himself to his captors as that was language used by Soviet propaganda.
Fairly certain itâs not meant to be realistic, but rather capture the chaos and emotional gravity of the situation for an audience that wasnât there and couldnât even imagine what it would be like.
Yes, it leans heavily on portraying events in the way the protagonost remembers them not how tgey happened which is very immersive while not perfectly realistic
yeah it's supposed to try and be idiosyncratic, the events that take place are taken from both the director and the camera man, he had lived through this period of time in Belarus and the film is really trying to capture the emotion and war crimes but also the partisans not being super realistic
you are right, that is the true story and meaning in the film.
That is realism...the realism that millions of people faced and continue to face when they are oppressed by sociopaths.
Come and See is great because it isn't a typical Soviet war movie. It shows the the true horror of the "Great Patriotic War". Instead of glorifying the Soviet cause, it shows the real reason the Soviet people sacrificed so much; more than any other nation, to defeat Nazi Germany. In a way it was also ahead of its time.
Also there is no real catharsis. For example in saving private ryan(also an all time great war movie) you also see all kinds of horrific consequences of war, but at the end when the P-47's bomb the german spearhead, you do feel relieved. Miller also didnt die for nothing as Ryan was shown to live a rich life after the war.
In Come and See there is no such moment. I guess you could point out the scene with the captured germans, but at that point you're completely emotionally exhausted to enjoy justice being served to them. Seems Klimov shared my sentiment because the partisans decide to give them a mercy of a shooting death instead of burning them.
After that, the partisans quite solemnly just retreat into the forest, knowing there are many more monsters just like they just killed out there, and then the graphic shows "628 belarussian villages were burnt to the ground along with their inhabitants". Its a masterpiece.
@@arijanpozder5572 Yeah the killing of captured Germans isn't a moment of happiness, I think it shows the true futility of it. No one was made happier or relived by any killing in the end it was all senseless and did nothing for anyone
Why just Soviet war movie? Almost all world films about the war are some kind of heroism, romance, beautiful action scenes, but not about fear and pain like in âCome and Seeâ
Just curious, what âother Soviet movie about the WW2â have you watched that you ended up thinking glorified the war??????
@@valkyrie9553 How about The Fall of Berlin (1949).
The thing about Ukrainian (or any other Soviet citizens) volunteers into SS, Soviet movies and media in general skirted around this issue quite carefully. It basically never mentioned. Come and See never really recognizes anyone of the SS troops as collaborators, it is only really implied.
P.S. Also the name of the real village is Khatyn and not Katyn. Different places altogether. Sometimes some Western sources often use this similarity as some sort of Soviet attempt to divert attention, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Both names sound quite differently in Russian.
Indeed. _According to The Simon Wiesenthal Center (in January 2011) "Ukraine has, to the best of our knowledge, never conducted a single investigation of a local Nazi war criminal, let alone prosecuted a Holocaust perpetrator."[27]_
There were Finnish and Scandinavian volunteers as well. And we are talking about as brutal and inhuman as it gets.
On the one hand, it all makes little sense. The Nazis were there to exterminate the Slavs. Why would the Slavs help the Nazis exterminating the Jews? On the other, people are good at rationalizing whatever they are doing. Jews joined the military in Nazi Germany, thinking they were the good Jews. The Nazis only hate the evil Eastern Jews.
@@grisflyt It makes sense if you consider what Cheka was doing in the Ukraine/Baltics in the decade prior to the war. The Nazis had their own agenda, yes, but for the locals it was all about score settling. The brutality long predated the war, and the Jews had not been passive bystanders in the orgy of rape and murder that occurred in the wake of the Communist Revolution. The West tends to have this "the history of a war begins when we enter it" mentality which is the reason their analysis of WWII is so poor and more recently, why they got the current conflict in the Ukraine so wrong.
"It basically never mentioned".
For reals?
@@khajiitty yep, Soviets really tried to keep a lid on inter-ethnic conflicts, so questions about who collaborated with whom was never really raised in public after immediate aftermath of the war.
@@scottwillie6389 I understand that the Ukrainians felt betrayed. But it's not an excuse. And it certainly erases any claim of being the victim.
I'm every bit as critical of the United States and its still legacy of white nationalism.
I can hold more than one thought at the same time. I can criticize NATO, the EU and Ukraine for the widespread popularity of Nazism.
And I can say that I hope Russia does to Ukraine what Ukraine did to Iraq. I hope Russia kills a million Ukrainians.
And I can say fuck you to the Nazis in Western media that cheered on the slaughter of brown Muslim women and children, but cry when it happens to white Christian women and children.
Oh dude, this is a crossover episode I never expected (though I probably should have after the Dirlewanger episode, which immediately brought image after image from "Come and See" to mind). I have a rough day at work today but will be watching this asap
In addition to the brutality, "Come and See" does one of the best jobs in film of showing the vastness of the area we're talking about here. Before seeing it, I could never understand how the Germans couldn't have garrisoned enough occupation troops to control the territory, after watching it, I was dumbfounded that they ever tried such an impossible task with 1/20th the forces required, it seemed. I guess they thought they could make up for it with the brutality
thats a common problem in wars and occupations. Armies try pulling off occupying and controlling massive swaths of land with minimal man power. The US made that same mistake in Iraq by trying to control that massive country with 100k-200k troops on the ground. That's why you had the same guys getting deployed over and over again. The US would have done better if they had implemented a draft and committed at least half a million men but GW bush would have been annihilated in the 2004 election had he enacted the draft.
You have to remember their entire plan hinged on the war lasting a few months. When Barbarossa failed to achieve the general collapse of the Soviet Army and Government they were stuck.
I watched it once, as a kid in Belarus, airing in the middle of the day on a state owned channel. So no adult supervision. It traumatized me so much, I never could rewatch it again. What were they thinking showing it during the day after school hours?
So now you have to watch Life Is Beautiful and possibly On the Beach to finally brake yourself :D I would say thats the holy trinity of depression
I doubt you were kid in Belarus or any other East European country :D There are tons of similar WW2 movies, not perhaps so good in artistic terms, but equally or more brutal. And, yes, they were shown on state TV in the middle of the day.
Minsk. Corn chips (?) costed 23 kopeek and had orange-white paper pack. First bubble gum was Donald Duck with vkladyshy (mine comics) which costed 10 kopeek, largest bubbles where from Hubba Bubba. Kid games where: plitki, bubblegum vkladyshy to get those from one another. Also throwing a switch blade into a ground and depending on angle and configuration it sticks into the ground - you draw a battle ship of various types.
So, to ww2 movies - I have seen many dozens on TV back then. Nothing compared to Come and See, not even close.
@@usun_current5786 TV channel workers probably thought it was one of those typical Soviet WW2 movies, very mild on the gore, suffering & violence part. Someone didn't check it properly.
@@usun_current5786 Literally dozens of movies with Germans killing civilian population, portrayed as sadistic beasts etc ... Actually very few movies without it.
I love this movie, the artillery making the trees in the forest shake, the real tracers being shot over Flyora while he hides behind a cow, it was shocking when I first saw it. You don't usually see this level of rawness in movies, especially today with the ubiquitous use of CGI. I never noticed the parallels between the end scene and the end of the war, when the Soviets did want to treat all Nazis as they were treated in the film, thank you for that TIK. I think the inaccuracies of the film are forgivable as they serve a purpose, the film is certainly a cut above in realism compared to its contemporaries. Much of the film isn't really a war film, more of a horror set in a war. Thanks for the video.
And according to the movie trivia, those were real bullets being fired for authenticity.
Those were real bullets being used, sometimes passing only inches above the main character's head. Bit unnecessary if you ask me, but i guess artists sometimes get lost in their art.
@@arijanpozder5572 I think it's more accurate to say Soviets didn't give a shit about people's safety.
@@MintyLime703 nice racist comment about the 'subhumans' not caring about human life. Your a shithead.
@@MintyLime703
I think the director did care. After the film he wanted to make sure the actors were mentally healthy so he kept contact with them for years after.
This was the most difficult film I tried to watch. Took me 3 attempts to finish it. To say it's brutal is an understatement.
Same. I watch and read ww2 content all the time and I had to pause come and see several times to get through it. Absolutely brutal.
Actually, usual Soviet WW2 movie in terms of brutality ;)
@@aleksazunjic9672 ĐœĐ”Ń, Ń ŃĐŒĐŸŃŃДл ĐČŃĐ” ŃĐŸĐČĐ”ŃŃĐșОД ŃОлŃĐŒŃ ĐŸ ĐČĐŸĐčĐœĐ”, ŃŃĐŸ ĐŸĐŽĐžĐœ Оз ŃĐ°ĐŒŃŃ Đ¶Đ”ŃŃĐșĐžŃ
@@user-gd9bi2hg5m Don't know, I watched plenty of Soviet and Yugoslav movies about WW2, this is an average in terms of brutality.
@@aleksazunjic9672 The lack of communist filter is what makes this even more intense, devoid and brutal. There are little things to be happy about even at the end sadly. True depiction.
we are reaching levels of nitpicking that shouldn't be possible
It might be nitpicking, but I still thinks itâs interesting to see how this film stacks up to the real history.
Those nits wonât pick themselves.
Clearly, you've never heard of Mauler's EFAP
exactly, its unreal how he has this need to know better than others, usually he reads glantz and house books, word for word uses their books for his research then finds one random small opinion from someone thats differs then declares glantz and house are wrong and he knows better. ... now his new strategy is to take a film which never clamed to be historicly accurate and pick apart how its not accurate. The guy is a joke
It's not a documentary. It's a form of art. And as art I think it's basically flawless.
And by the way, the movie is available on CZcams on Mosfilm's and Belarusfilm's channels, with English subtitles, for those who want to see it.
I watched "Come And See" on dvd that had interviews with the filmmakers.
I borrowed it from the city library.
@@ZER0ZER0SE7EN wow, i'd love to see the interview.
No thanks , I can see the same crimes being committed by Russians in Ukraine right now LIVE on TV .
I was intrigued by a CZcams reviewer saying that the most Horrific movie WASN'T a Horror movie, but a war movie. It took a while to find a complete English subtitled version, but it was simply unforgettable. I've seen "Come and See" twice, and that's enough true Horror for me. As General William Tecumseh Sherman said: "War is ALL Hell."
@@Otokichi786 I saw that comment too
Fun Fact: The photo of baby Hitler is actually a composite photograph as no such photographs of young Hitler with his mother are known to exist.
Come and see is a very good film, and the girl getting driven away in the lorry is horrific. The first time you see the hatred in the SS officers face at the end, captures the mood perfectly. The Goebbels children murder scene in downfall, as far as pure evil goes, takes some beating, and upsets me just thinking about it.
Try "Volhhynia"
You know what's really stupid about copyright claims on this movie in particular? It was never trademarked in the first place, the Soviet Union didn't believe in intellectual property. This begs the question: who the hell is claiming footage from "Come and See"!? It should be in the public domain!
This!!! Someone must have illegally taken ownership of it. It should be challenged by someone with deep pockets in court. I half suspect that it is also happening to other public domain films.
ĐŃĐ°ĐČĐŽĐ°.
One of those great movies that youâll never want to see a second time.
Come and See is horrific, and tbh one of the more honest and brutal films. The actions of the SS was horrific. Regardless of the messiness of the actions and film.
I feel that regardless of who committed atrocities, atrocities were committed.
Not to get soft, but children were murdered, little girls and little boys were murdered. An unforgiveable crime. To murder children!? degenerates, and the reality is this film reflects the horrific nature of genocide. So causal and easy by bitter men...
Not to be a total hard ass but children get killed in war all the time by all sides. The allies killed tones of kids. Itâs an ugly part of war throughout all human history.
@@spiderknight9893 No their is quite the difference in children dying by indiscriminate fire and bombings, compared to rounding them up into local barns and shooting them, setting them on fire or any other method of murder. do not excuse the wanton murder of babes...
You write as if you just learned what war is, yesterday.
"The actions of the SS was horrific" and the wehrmacht ...
Small detail but I wanted to mention it, the "SS logo" isn't lightning bolts as typically assumed, they are sig runes dating back to the old Germanic runic alphabets and basically the old equivalent of the letter S.
Literally NOBODY thinks they're lightning bolts.
@@nakedfreak1 He literally called them lightning bolts in the video and I've seen far more people repeat that myth. You really replied on a comment over 1 year old to say some stupid shit like that I pity you
Soviet access to German Army archives were probably quite limited during the Cold War. Information didn't flow freely across the Iron Curtain, to put it mildly.
Don't be ridiculous; the Red Army took damned Berlin and all its bloody archives in 1945.
Iâve watched documentaries for over 50 years beginning with The World at War series narrated by Laurence Olivier with my Dad when it ran on American television in the early 70s.
I have found your videos to be of such outstanding accuracy and quality that you are my âgo toâ historian on CZcams. Thank you for your hard work!
wow cant believe you made a video on this movie.. it was pretty terrifying for me when watching it.. the horror was potrayed very realistically
In fact, at the end of the war, many SS soldiers shed their uniforms because so many were being shot on site even after surrendering just because they were SS.
The Russians were more likely to do so because of the destruction of their country and the allies because of what they saw at the concentration camps.
Not "Russian", Soviet. Mobilization continued throughout the war. It was also carried out in the liberated territories. Those who came to Germany for two, three or even almost four years saw what was shown in the movie with their own eyes or from the words of their friends.
Even collaborators who didn't take an active part in the terror against the population were conscripted, but to penal units, instead of criminal prosecution and accusations of treason. There is a known case when an entire collaborationist SS brigade "Druzhina" switch over to the side of the partisan detachment, which by that time were directly controlled from the main headquarters of the partisan movement in Moscow.
@@Ailasher soviet is russian empire. russia is always a empire.
@@QWERTY-gp8fd Do you know what the word "empire" means? How then each Soviet republic had the right to learn its national language and the right to leave USSR? (which they used in 1991). Under "Empire" it was impossible
@@KappaClauss learn its national language? f,u,ck off i was speaking russian in buriad uls during soviet union. still does it. we wanted to join mongolia in 90 but russians killed peaceful protest of 37000 people. it was suppressed so well that practically nobody outside buriad uls know it.
russia is sending buriads to ukraine. over 12000 buriads died in ukraine.
u know nothing about russia and its vile colonization.
@@QWERTY-gp8fd
You seem to watch too much mainstream western media. And in the west they called russian TV - propaganda (which they are), but they are not comparable with western propaganda, the best in the world and you are the best example of its effectiveness)
Really interesting breakdown the film. Would love more WW2 film analysis
This is one of those films that makes you feel grey and sunken for a week after watching it.
Great analysis. I have heard this movie referred to as the the scariest movie of all time, and I think I have to agree. It also happens to be my favorite war movie along with Downfall. As you said, Come and See is not a documentary, but it has a certain authentic feel to the events it depicts that most other WW2 movies don't even come close to attaining.
Thanks Tik for a video before Monday. I am still rewatching your recent Stalingrad video
Another good one to look at, also Russian, is Tarkovsky's "Ivan's Childhood". It has some similar scenes and themes, and I confess to sometimes mixing them up. There are very likely ways in which "Come and See" references and/or reacts to "Ivan's Childhood," that I can't elucidate because I am not an expert in Russian film
This film is certainly to some extent influenced by Tarkovsky's work.
I have been inside an old structure on fire.. within 30 seconds there are flames everywhere and within a minute the scream of air being pulled in and deafening cracks as flames explode outwards made retaining ones sanity problematic... and that was without an accelerant
How'd you escape?
It's not that the USSR "got wrong" the difference between national socialst and fascist. It was a consious decision. Remember that Stalin called the system of the USSR a socialism. So he wanted to avoid the connotation between "his" socialism and national socialism. And that was the official stance of the Soviets till the end, so the director couldn't just use the word nazis in a soviet movie.
Can confirm, I grew up in the USSR and Nazi was never used, only fascist. It's true till this day in Belarus, only academia uses national socialist term.
Thing is, Hitler declared that Germany has socialism but it was never the case. German oligarchs were part of Nazi system and they owned giant corporations.
Nothing like that was possible in USSR. When you have real socialism - society owns giant corporations, not some businessmen.
Saying it was National Socialism is like saying that USA now has Liberal Socialism.
If you call yourself something - a woman, lizard or Napoleon - you don't turn into one.
@@ImperativeGames but Hitler called himself and the system of the III R "national socialism". Stalin's and then soviet propaganda desperately tried to avoid any conotations with socialism in describing the mortal enemy of the USSR. He didn't care who owns corporations in Germany.
@@albertofernandez2490 If Hitler would called his system "Christian Nationalism", despite having all that crap about Aryans being higher race, descendants of the Gods with tiers of how much God blood they have in them... would you call desire of Christian churches to dismiss it as not being Christian "desperate propaganda"?
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No one recognizes all this crap they believed as part of Christianity - despite Hitler calling it Christian. But for some reason western capitalists declared that Hitler and all his oligarchs who ruled with him were socialists. I wonder why.
@@ImperativeGames Dude, this is about what term STALIN decided to call them, not about whether the system of the III R can be described as "socialism". Beides, the genocidal totalitarian regime of the USSR Stalin called socialism. I'm not so sure the term fit there either.
Hey wait a sec, how is copyright supposed to work if the Soviet Union (which owned the rights to the film, because lol no private property) dissolved over 30 years ago?
I dont think you understand what private property means in this case, its not everything you own or produce but actual assets that would factor into your real net-worth (which wasnt really a concept in the ussr lol) this was so the things you produce can be used by the state for the supposed greater good, abolition of private property applied mostly to landowners
Who actually holds the copyright? The filmmakers? Did the copyright get sold?
Lewis is right that the Fair Use laws should allow short clips if it's for political discussion under US First Amendment laws. The CZcams algorithm can't discern between Fair Use and piracy.
If it is owned by the Russian government, it's ok to pirate it since Putin is ignoring most copyright and patent laws.
This was likely a chief influence on how Spielberg would approach Schindler's List and later Saving Private Ryan. It has a semi-documentary presentation to the action and chaos, particularly the village burning scene with fire raining all around. It's so immersive, with so many people moving around as if unscripted. You feel like it's being captured in real time.
The Soviets were exceptional at making war movies that arenât full with pathos and where the characters donât save anyone. Itâs the best movies to represent the average soldier, and the horrors they went through.
You meant to say, âexceptional at making propagandistic war movies to protect themselves and malign their opponent.â
@@freckleheckler6311 look at this troll
Iâve been haunted for years by a clip I think was from this film - where the kid gets to his village after the Germans have left and no ones there - then in the distant field you see very long stack of bodies.
From where I sit here in rural Australia, this video appears to be a masterpiece in interesting obscurity. What a fantastic eye for detail !
Thank you - and please Tik, do keep up your excellent work.
I really hope you never stop making videos. One of the reasons why the internet can be so great. I'm going to sign up to the patreon!
For the unit being portrayed, you have to understand that the movie was made before super detailed information was widely available. Just like a hollywood movie which will use SS insignia with a mix of heer and luftwaffe stuff. Also, most movies before the 90s used original uniforms as costumes so dirlewanger uniforms probably werent all that available. Also, no one knows what crossed rifles are, everyone knows what the ss runes are. Its a matter of lack of information, lack of materials to use, and artistic use. Also, this movie just like any other is a form of propaganda so take narratives and messages with a grain os salt
Plenty of non dirlewanger units perpetrated the same crimes as portrayed in the movie. The soviets literally liberated ashes that used to be former villages, director survived Stalingrad, the writer of the book that the movie was founded on was a soviet partisan, but yes, you, some dude sporting an SS uniformed guy as your profile picture, knows more.
@@arijanpozder5572 All he's doing is explaining how nick picking on the insignia bit isn't fair for the time frame of when the film was made. But sure just grab that and run with the whole "excusing other units" bit.
@@legoeasycompany i took exception to "form of propaganda, and take narratives and messages with a grain of salt" bit.
Itâs a movie, itâs not a documentary. Itâs designed to tell a story and pose questions about this period of history and how badly people behaved. Itâs not meant be a step by step recreation of an actual event.
One of my favorite videos, thank you for making this.
Hello Tik, there is a term about storytelling that I learned from the late, great Terry Pratchett. It's: 'Narrative Imperative.' What it means is, that in order to get a point across or to tell a certain story arch, the writer has to shape his story a certain way. To make an amalgam of several real people into one character for example. Or to use one portrayed event to tell the audience about several ones that happened for real. It's not artistic license per se, it is a mechanism that is needed to tell a narrative in such a way that the audience will watch it and learn from it. And, as you say in this video: the film does have some salient points to tell us!
Hou toch je bek man, eikel
At 6:29 you say that the girl Fliora befriends early in the film was the one being tortured by the germans, but I think that was actually the other girl dragged from the village. But Fliora saw her as the girl he befriended.
The girl he befriends (I think her name is Glasha) mentioned in passing she was rescued from German captivity. I always interpreted that scene at the end as him finally understanding what happened to her; why she seems so weird and unhinged.
@@wasneeplus Seems to make sense, but wasnât Glasha implied to be Kosachâs mistress? If he hurt her, then his badass angel of revenge vibe heâs giving is not so prominent anymore. Or do you mean that she was then captured and hurt by the Germans?
There are a number of very 'clunky' links between scenes, where time seems to jump. I think Fliora saw her as the girl he befriended (unless there were 2 girls, one from the village & the Germans also captured Glasha at some point before they were attacked).
@@billyberrington no, she mentions that she was first captured by the Germans and it was Kosach who rescued her. That's why she's so infatuated with him.
OK...the girl who is r***d is NOT the partisan girl. She is a villager with a baby who is thrown back into the barn whilst she is dragged " to the right " with permission from the SS officer (UntersturmfĂŒrer??). She is then seen later with....well....injuries. I hope this clears this up.
probably the uniforms were taken as standard SS so that spectators were not confused with the markings
everyone recognizes the SS sign
as for the names of the units, they probably wanted to invent the unit because it allows them to act more freely in the film
The Red Army did not capture the SS, nor did they surrender, so it was eventually invented as artistic freedom
Some SS units were captured by the Red Army.
@@lloydchristmas1086 highly doubtful most captured survived but hey
I'm not complaining
Thousands of SS men we're captured during the war. How many of them made it back till 1955 thats a different question but the Soviets took SS POWs.
Thats just plain wrong. Soviets took plenty of SS prisoners.
âThe red army did not capture SSâ
The actor who played the German commander served in the Latvian Legion, a SS division. He was captured and sent to a gulag in Khabarovsk for 3 years before being released.
Great look at the film. Learned a ton of new things I never would have otherwise. Amazing video.
Thanks TIK, watched the film. Does remind you of the horrors of war, & how rural these areas were.
I believe a couple of authors have books on 'what if' Hitler didn't come to power/died before he became chancellor, but both said someone like him would have taken his place, as Germany was ripe for another 'single leader' government after the 1929 economic crash (being used to being ruled by a single figure, be it monarchy or a dictator).
You can nitpic the Venus de Milo for not having arms like this movie but still its a masterpiece. The scene in which Fiorya and the girl are in the forrest being bombarded is so tremendous its beyond words.
You need to do more videos on the historical context of our media. Those are great!
This is the only real anti war film I've seen. The rest are not about war, or can but help be co-opted by the subject matter. Come See give you no escape, no sentiment to hide behind, no glory, it's amazing.
Paths of Glory, Full Metal Jacket, Empire of the Sun, Stalingrad 1993?
@@Edax_Royeaux yeah but like the op said, it can easily be coopted and twisted into a pro war film. Remember that film rehabilitated Patton's image more than anything.
@@Edax_Royeaux Smh lol...I know! Read the OP's comment. He's saying Come and See is the only anti-war film where you are forced to see it as one, whereas others are masquerading as anti-war but really are pro-war, or they could be seen as pro-war. Those films I mentioned were films that you really can't see it as anything but an anti-war film.
@@Edax_Royeaux yes, I would agree but there is still the glory to set against it the horror of War, 'Come and See' has no glory, I can't imagine the Soviet censors were very happy with it. The Soviet Union glories in its victory over Nazism, in Come and See there is no glory, it is anti the glorification of war.
Saying that Patton is a great movie, one of my faves, that and Paths to glory are some of the best from the West I guess. I watched both numerous times, I've only watched Come and See once, that was enough.
@@Edax_Royeaux If you haven't seen the film why are you arguing on here? Both Gerard and I have seen the film. Go watch it and then comment.
Ok TIK here is one point that I think you are missing. Eastern Europe countries from Yugoslavia on the south to USSR in the north were simply using term "Fascist" when talking about any of Axis countries, armies, people and people sympathetic to the Axis in general. I was born in Yugoslavia in 1975, was raised on stories of Yugoslav partisans and WWII yet I never heard of the term Nazism until I started university. We all, from children playing "partisans against fascist" in the street to documentary tv shows, all used term "Fascists". So once more, calling someone "Fascist" in the eastern Europe was not an ideology thing, but descriptive, and it describes any member supporter or sympathizer of any Axis countries.
That's true, but stems from incorrect USSR propaganda.
@@juliantheapostate8295 Do not think so, term Fascist came to Yugoslavia with fighters returning from Spanish civil war, and it has been in wide use ever since.
It was a German calling another German a fascist, though. While I think fascism and nazism are basically two branches of the same tree, TIK is right that a German wouldn't have called another German fascist.
Yes this is true.
It would be really great if you do more reaction videos like this! This including TV documentaries you find misleading like if necessary critiqing the classic "World at War"!
I saw that series as a boy in the 1980s, not all parts but most of them. Today I have them on DVD. It is interesting to see how ones own perspective changes over times, together with the quality of documentaries that were available then and now. 40 years ago there was nothing else but these "narratives overlays with foootage", I did not even notice when details were missing or wrong (like showing a Soviet bomb plane and the narrative is about Luftwaffe ...). Today I am quite fed up with the narrative-style documentaries, I prefer the few which are analytic - like these from TIK. As soon as it comes into details, it becomes complicated, and that is where the most consumer-watchers get lost, and the few who have some interest stay and watch it to the end.
I would also like to hear what TIK would say about the stone-age-old BBC series.
World at war does put a spin on things but is at another level to most others. Interviews with Hitler's secretary, Albert Speer and many Generals from either side is an eye opener. These to take a back seat, when a bomber pilot describes climbing out onto a wing to put a engine fire out at tree top level, or landing crippled aircraft to save his crew as many are injured and cannot jump out of the plane. All true stories and bring warfare into our front rooms. Something that has been lost on many of the current generation, who think computer simulations are real, or posting flags on social media means you are alongside a poor conscript in a trench being shelled 24-7.
Laurence Olivier, though....
@@ricardocima
Oh the Narration was great (the CZcamsr Mark Felton Productions has a similar style and accent in narration)! But does "The World at War" stand up to modern scholarly scrutiny after 50 years?
@@arrow1414 Ithink it would be fair to say that narration and information quality are in contrary proportions here. Felton is much better and detailed than World at War and , as much as I like Felton, it cant be compared to Olivier. Remember those monologues that served as introduction to each chapter? Anyways, you all should check the doc series made by the spanish TV on their civil war, made in the 70's. Very much inspired in World at War, with emotional music and excellent witness accounts. At one point a lady just says "The truth is that we hated each other".
Only just stumbled upon this channel and I am glad I did. For as long as I can remember I always stated that Nazis were not fascists and vice versa. Fascists were not anti-semitic from 1922 until Italy aligned themselves for their own interests from what I recall the late 30's-40. I have been called ignorant for these obvious beliefs.
My understanding is that Jews were overrepresented (as a percent of the population) in the Italian fascist govt until the Nazis got involved.
'Mitgefangen, mitgehangen'. Caught along with them, hung along with them.
As the fascists sided with the nazis, they at least facilitated the Holocaust. As they therefore actively contributed to what happened, there is something to say for arguing that fascists and nazis were somewhat interchangable. Can't imagine them being very much against anti-semitism anyway, as basically anyone in history who wanted to make a point about being ruthlessly in power somehow seemed to have a penchant for turning against jews.
Ian also makes a good point about the Soviets calling the nazis fascists to make a distinction, as calling them national-*socialists* might confuse the marxist *socialist* followers.
The word, "ignorant" means absolutely nothing these days. It's the 2020s equivalent of saying "ur gay"
ââ@@hardanheavy The Italians (Fascists) also killed 40-70 thousand Libyans, expelled 200 thousand Libyans from the Libyan coast so that they could come from italy to occupy along the Libyan coastline as one of Mussolini's "Mare nostrum" policies. They also have a version of "Concentration Camps". they themselves were filled with 40-50 thousand libyans and ended up killing 10-15 thousand libyans due to hunger and disease.they also used poison gas in ethiopia which killed not only soldiers but civilians as well.....they were never much different With the Nazis, just because the death toll from their atrocities was only in the range of 200-300 thousand people doesn't mean they are better than the Nazis.
@@hardanheavy Plenty of people have debunked TIKs âeveryone I donât like is a socialistâ childish schtick
Another excellent historical video đ
TIK, I love this new addition to your already amazing content! I want/need more Stalingrad... but can wait if you if do "The Captain" next!
1:40 - minor error here and perhaps an understatement.
It wasn't 1939 - the mass murder of nearly 22,000 Polish officers and intelligentsia in Katyn (Russian: "ĐĂĄŃŃĐœŃ", Polish: "KatyĆ"), among other places, happened in April and May 1940.
The crimes You described here, committed on around 149 people, happened in Khatyn (Russian: "Đ„Đ°ŃŃÌĐœŃ", Polish: "ChatyĆ") in March 1943.
From Wikipedia:
"Among the foreign leaders who have visited the Khatyn Memorial during their time in office are Richard Nixon of the US, Fidel Castro of Cuba, Rajiv Gandhi of India, Yasser Arafat of the PLO, and Jiang Zemin of China. [17]
According to Norman Davies, the Khatyn massacre was deliberately exploited by the Soviet authorities to cover up the Katyn massacre, and this was a major reason for erecting the memorial - it was done in order to cause confusion with Katyn among foreign visitors. [18: Davies, Norman (1996). "Europe: A History". Oxford University Press. p. 1005. ISBN 0-19-820171-0.]".
I think you might be interested in Grover furrs books. Including on Katyn
One of the best movies I've ever seen and certainly the best war movie. I don't think it loses any of its power and value by not being 100% historically accurate.
I always call it the best movie you never want to see again. It's a masterpiece but it's so painful to watch.
One of my favourite films, but I have only ever watched it 3 times. Despite it being a masterpiece, I really struggle to bring myself to watch it as it really is an ordeal. By the end of the film, I always feel emotionally drained and have to go watch some comedy or something to cheer myself up again.
I love this chanel! Not just history, but philosophy and morals too!
can you imagine the SS burning the village and then leaving in crude horse drawn carts? that would be kinda lame lol
Have you seen the 2014 Hungarian film "Dear Elza"? It's a little weird, but it's about how Hungarian men were forced to fight for the Germans when the Nazis invaded, and then when captured by the Soviets, were used by them as human shields against the Germans, to clear mine fields, etc.
I will look for it. I have worked with several Hungarians over the decades and one engineer til me his father was with the Hungarian Army near Stalingrad. He and a couple of buddies basically stole a truck to try and get out but were captured by the Soviets. He was held for 4 years after the war then released.
@@tpxchallenger czcams.com/video/xdr0_kJRETY/video.html
People in the middle of two monstrosities like Nazi Germany and the USSR lived the darkest suffering of all humanity
â@@dusk6159 because they also intervened a lot in the massacre of civilians such as village burnings, mass executions, and also interfered in the genocide that was carried out by Germany. So it's no wonder they made those Unfortunate (Kinda deserve it tho) soldier as meat shields.Expecially Hungarians and Croats.
The Hungarians were far more loyal supporters to the third reich than any other allies out there. Even taking the fight in the German lands and not surrendering even after the war was over
Been waiting for you to do this đ
What I noticed about this film were the FW 189s appeared four times in the film representing the Four Horsemen.
Also during the under the bridge scene, the close up shot of the Partisan Leader's face could be a direct reference to a Nazi Propaganda poster depicting a Jewish Soviet Commissar. Its the "Vinnytsia" poster.
One inaccuracy I was surpised TIK missed was the photo of Hitler in her mother's lap is not entire accurate. Its two photos superimposed.
Great vid as always
Great subject! I saw the film years ago. It's brutal to say the least.
With movies there will always be some sort of creative decisions that need to be made. I like the term authentic that then accuracy but it's still interesting to pick them apart a little.
Hi TIK, im really loving the videos, and have even resorted to binge watching them! I was wondering if you have any information about the siege of Leningrad, like German army movements, and positions, and soviet operations. I have an ancestor in the family who fought and was wounded there, he was a part of the 538 Infanterie Regiment. I learned later that this was a regiment that was separated far from their division which was near Stalingrad. The regiment was absorbed later by SS-Kampfgrupper Jeckeln, it's hard to find a lot of information on this regiment and KG.
Analyzing a movie for historical accuracy is fantastic and shows the versatility of Tik. This is by far my favorite CZcams channel.
Great insight ... and by that I mean the comments on the morality of war that you have raised in the context of the film. Every question raised herein could be explored in a multi-volume thesis that ends in no firm conclusions. The soldier's choice? Military action and training demands absolute, immediate, obedience. Less than that can result in defeat or complete annihilation. Even generals are expected to follow the commands of their "legitimate" government without rancor (albeit they can argue before the decision is final). The foot soldier does not have sufficient information or time to contemplate or make decisions ... a foot soldier cannot know when or how to refuse (the soldiers killed by non-combatant "children"). The fundamental job of a soldier is to kill people ("duh"). How can a foot soldier see "morality" when surrounded day-after-day by the "crimes of war" in a kill-or-be-killed arena for multiple years (ask )? "War crimes"?: War is the consequence of the break down of morality and orderly societal rules -- it is not a "combat sport" with a set of constraining rules. Can there be? / Should there be? "Rules of War". That is an absurdity that simply serves to justify war, rendering it just one of the range of acceptable human behaviours (as long as you "play within the rules"). I am oft-times reminded of James T Kirk's quote, "âDeath, destruction, disease, horror⊠that's what war is all about, Anan. That's what makes it a thing to be avoided. You've made it neat and painless⊠so neat and painless, you've had no reason to stop it." We have not made it neat and painless but every iteration of the rules seems to a step in that direction. Collaboration in the face of no options?, few options?, some options?, many options?: Where do you draw the line? Where does that leave the Danes? Sometimes I have more respect for the ancient "rule of invasion": If a foreign power wanted to take over your lives, you had two choices: Surrender or fight. Surrender meant becoming a vassal state, and the payment of a (perhaps onerous) tax/tribute. To fight and fail was annihilation: There would be no mercy -- with an emphasis on "no". If you surrendered and then rose up ... oh my ... that was much worse. Yes ... there were variations or exceptions, but that was the general "rule of war". The continual re-emergence of total war (see Ukraine), despite the attempts to turn it into some kind of elaborate rules-based game, is a reminder that the only "rules" are those that bring victory (not of the Pyrrhic kind). The victor can afford to be magnanimous even if they broke all the rules. The loser has nothing even if they adhered to every rule. Of course, all of this is just a gross simplification even though it is already excessive in length.
I really liked the movie. I read the book it was based on in Russian and I would say this is one of the few times the movie was better than the book. In the book Glasha and Flora end up marrying after the war and Flora eventually gets blinded due to some injury he sustained during the war. The movie leaves what happens to Flora and Glasha ambiguous and I rather like that. When I first watched the film I assumed Flora died not long after the conclusion of the film.
Great to know the book's side of the story
Thank you for seeing my comment on your drielwanger video
Excellent review. The ethical questions are deep. I think it's not rational to abandon one's set of ethics in mitigation of the horrors of war because, as Clausewitz says, war is a political exercise. Politics is determined by ethics, not the other way around, since the order of ideological determination is metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, then politics.
A detail that you TIK didn't mentioned is that along with german punishers, instead of ukrainian auxilary police, there were soldiers from the russian liberation army(you can clearly recognize them having the st. Andrew cross badge).
Afaik, the director choose to put the russian liberation army in order to not influence negatively in belarusian-ukrainian brotherhood promoted by USSR propaganda.
To be fair, Lokot Republic was not all that far from this place.
I'm fairly certain the guy standing in the barn's tower is supposed to be a Ukrainian, but I'm just speculating.
@@gnas1897 well, I don't have an accurate ear for accents like Dieter Hellstorm from "inglorious bastards", so I can't say anything if It's ukrainian or not.
Whoa historical movie reviews by TIK too now ^_^ you're multi talented hehe.
Anyways, I never viewed movies as 'accurate'. Most of the time you will end up having to take some license of artistic liberty. Or some of the exact things cannot be shown, or reproduced.
But for me Come and See, Stalingrad(1993), and Das Boot were the most Anti-War movies ever. The latter almost going to its horrific lengths of despair.
Good too see a analysis of this TIK. Would like see something on other films or series. Maybe films like 1944 Forced too fight about Estonians in the Waffen SS and In the Red Army.
Great video đ
It always blows my mind how horribly inhumane humans can be
When I discuss how historically accurate a particular film is, I can't say I personally get too hung up on whether one side wore the wrong collar tabs. As a tabletop wargamer, I learned long ago to tiptoe away from other gamers that do.
I may twitch occasionally when seeing "Scots" in tartan and woad, when either was appropriate for centuries. I may even grind my teeth, even loudly "tut" when seeing "Romans" in horribly anachronistic or simply silly armour, or Ancient Greeks behaving like bloody Anime.
So long as the bodies do what is historically credible or documented and don't behave in ways that would have caused them to be executed on the spot, I try to view it as an image.
I am super impressed that the list is so small and minor.
Great work from the film makers!
This video is what scholarship looks like, thankyou.
Great timing. I just saw the movie a few weeks ago. I hope, Hatred, is next
The part of the film that stood out to me the most was when Flyora found bandages, fell on the dying SS woman, and choosed to "heal" his rifle. That scene haunted me for months.
Well, the first part of the video could be only two sentences: Well, this is not the unit that did that, they most likely didn't care that much, so they made up a random unit, that was not there.
Also, they fell for the idea of the motorized german army
I respect Tik, but in this heâs being a bit Comicbook Store Guy from the Simpsons.
I see on the bookcase "Savage Continent". Powerful read, could you do a video on that book? Thanks.
... and it is not even Monday. "History Buffs" might have to watch its 'film' pedestal. And nice linkage to the recent vid on that nice chap, Oskar. Keep up the good work.
It's a unique movie but it's hard to call it a "war movie" at times. It's NOT Saving Private Ryan or The Longest Day but it's more of a suspense and drama film set during a war. That was sort of my interpretation when I watched it at any rate. Your mileage may vary.
Saving Private Ryan or The Longest Day are not war movies, they are for most part entertainment (except for few scenes). This is something that is much closer to real war.
Antiwar then?
@@charlesk22 If nothing else, it show the brutality of war and how it psychologically ruins people. There are scenes where it seems the characters are going literally insane. Given the brutality of the Eastern Front, I can barely imagine what it must've been like.
My grandfather didn't want to fight at all. He had daughters and a wife to take care of. First the partisans came for him with guns. After being wounded and recovering at home, the other side came for him. Twice forced to fight, shot, after the war tortured for fighting on the wrong side.
My grandmother was put in a camp by nazis, she had a family too.
@@1986tessie @mark Groc: war is horrible and everyone on both sides suffer.
@@l.j.1029 Indeed. What I am mostly getting at is that there is no clear cut line and no right answer. This is what makes these harsh punishments of "enemies" so cruel. The ordinary , normal person just wants to live a peaceful life.
@@1986tessie sorry to hear that.
The shot of the plane hovering was so cool. Like many others, I couldnt watch straight thru and started to feel like I had lost my hearing. The ss major reminded me of the ss colonel tik just featured on that episode about the literally criminal ss brigade. âHe was a man of his timeâ đ.
the town was not Katyn, it was Khatyn (not pronounced the same)
the soldier who translates and who calls the ss soldier a fascist was not German (which is why it is logical that he called him a fascist, in the ussr they also called the nazis fascists, just like in the whole world, nobody makes that differentiation between Nazis and fascists. He was a collaborator of the Russian liberation army "POA" in the barn scene you can see a patch of that military unit
I really liked this movie. But the first thing that came to mind when seeing the Germans using petrol as an accelerant was extreme doubt. As mentioned by the narrator, every German unit was critically low on fuel so to use it so carelessly would have been extremely stupid.
I still think this is the greatest (anti-) war film ever made. Whilst there are some techincal inaccuracies, in the overall scheme of things, they are irrelevant, as you said, artistic licence. Everybody should watch this film at least once in thier lives, and twice if you can handle it. Paraphrasing what a friend of mine commented, the finest war film I never want to see again.
It probably wasn't unusual for some officers or NCOs in Dirlewanger to wear áá runes, if they were not sent to the unit as punishment; there were many who fit that category. Also there were many from the áá who were sent there as punishment but I don't know if they could have had runes.
I think the girl that was Flyoria's friend in the movie also played the girl at the end who was taken by the Germans, but _not_ the same character.
This 1985 movie was remastered to 4k. If you haven't seen it, come and see. TIK does the greatest ww2 in depth detailed discoveries. I rate this movie above almost any other war movie, it set the bar.
You should do more film analyses.
TIK I love your videos and hope to hear what your opinion on Erin rommel and his plot to kill hitler. You have covered some of the plots before but I had never heard you specifically mention him on this. What reasons he had, his convictions ext. Did rommel have a change of heart? Any books you recommend? Love the content and please keep it up, your doing the lords work
tik is killing it with those uploads!!
It was hard to get through this movie.
Speaking about certain antagonism between Wehrmacht and SS, I heard accounts from my grandmother, who at that time lived in a village in the Voronezh oblast. Wehrmacht units took over their village without any fight as the Red Army hastily retreated from that area. Wehrmacht troops had German, Italian and Hungarian units. Italians and Hungarians mostly kept distance from the Germans according to her stories. There was no plundering, mass killings, or anything like that. She recallss that only one person was killed - some sort of a communist official. When Wehrmacht units were retreating, or changing position, some soldier told kids in the village, not to communicate, with the German units that were to replace them, because they were "bad guys". Those units turned out to be SS units. As far as I understood from our talks, they did not stay too long, so there was no perceivable harm, but there was no contact either. Strangely enough, my grandmother never uses tags likes Nazis or Fascists, it is always Germans, Hungarians, Italians.
It makes "Schindler's List" look like "THE SOUND OF MUSIC"
I'm very happy the inaccuracies were minor and not altering the actual events, something's are so horrible you don't have to try to make it look bad you just show them hey "come see".