BRUTE FORCE Protoss strategy! StarCraft 2 (herO vs Serral)
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- čas přidán 11. 08. 2023
- StarCraft 2 Tournament Gamers 8 2023 - Serral squares off against his nemesis herO in this intense Protoss vs Zerg series!
StarCraft 2 Legacy of the Void - Gamers8 Main Event 2023 - herO (Protoss) vs Serral (Zerg) - Best of 3
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If Hero ever becomes able to close the door in time, Dark and Serral are out of luck.
As Cameron "The actual liquor" Mitchell once said, "CLOSE THE FUCKING DOOR!!!"
If the world was to fall, and my livelihood was no more, I can still feel comfort in knowing another banger of a casting came out of your channel.
The cycle of watching wintersc casts is brutal and painful:
>See thumbail and title showing cool strat you don't see often and wish there was more of (example mass immortal or *any* ultra use)
>Click video
>Only one round of the multi-round cast used the strat on the thumbnail, and it was a losing game
>Pain
The immortals are the most important units, you must get the most out of them due to the cost and damage, you also have to position yourself well and have someone to kill the light units.
#1 Protoss vs #1 Zerg. hype
Also... how in the world is Protoss the race that gets described as the A-move race? Every single one of their units needs to be carefully micro'd in order to get value. The closest thing to an exception to this is zealots (ok sure) and robo units but I would absolutely argue that A-moving your robo units is a great way to loose engagements. You need colossi to be engaging groups of units and preferably light units and you need immortals to be engaging armored targets.
Amateurs call it the A-move race because when two armies A-move into each other, the Protoss will almost always come out on top.
@@v33nod3 oh ok so it's a nearly universally inaccurate and inapplicable description. Got it.
@@andrew6815 To be fair, it makes sense both canonically and from a gameplay perspective. Protoss units are more expensive and more powerful, pound for pound.
@@v33nod3 now I think you're arguing against your own position. Yes, protoss units are more expensive and also more powerful. They also cost more supply. So if two armies are attacking each other head on and the size is equal, the opposing player has f'd up (the only scenario this happens is if the protoss player has substantially more army supply. If both players are maxed out with equal army supply, there will be more units on the field for the other race). If you are attacking a protoss army of equal size head on, you are ignoring all tactics and strategy and you've f'd up.
It only makes sense from a canonical perspective which is to say, it doesn't make sense in any real way in the game, only in peoples fantasies about the game.
@@andrew6815 You're repeating what I said but with more words. I guess this is how people "argue" on the internet these days.
Winter trying not to go insane the moment Brenda steps off creep challenge
(Impossible difficulty)
It's almost shocking how bad stalkers are vs speedlings. It's really pretty crazy just how bad the mass stalker play often looks when the Zerg goes for less roaches/ravagers and more Zerglings, despite how good it can look vs pure roach/ravager play.
It’s all about the creep. Off creep, Blink Stalkers fare much better.
@@segalliongaming8925 it has nothing to do with creep. Even with blink speedlings will decimate stalkers at even supply and you will have a couple handfuls to spare. I tried it in unit tester about a week ago. 😮
@@cultclassic-my6mo Any Protoss player at Diamond league or above can micro Blink Stalkers against Speedlings off-creep. Keep moving back, use the terrain, and blink away the Stalkers whose heels are being nipped at. The goal is to survive long enough to get Zealot reinforcements, or get back to base.
Makes sense given stalkers do bonus dmg vs armored (IIRC)
@@segalliongaming8925 The trading is more about overkill. Stalkers have slow projectiles and a fairly high damage point, so they blow 10 shots into a single Zergling constantly and take time to switch to a new target.
Even off creep, Stalkers trade very poorly vs lings; lings are plenty fast enough to catch them, and if the Zerg runs a group of lings ahead in the direction the Protoss player would have to blink, it becomes very difficult for stalkers to escape. Zerg just needs enough lings to have both a group fighting the stalkers and a group to catch them (the former only needing about half the supply investiment of the stalkers to take a favorable fight).
The protoss player will be bleeding units even if they manage to get the stalkers back to base (as was seen in these games), and the bigger problem is that f the Protoss player is forced back to their own base, they're in a bad position. The point of the mass stalkers is to pressure the Zerg with blink micro and force units while trading efficiently; when the Protoss is forced back, the Zerg gets time to tech or expand.
Serral is literally the fucking overmind. his macro, control, decision making... unreal.
I want Brenda to cast a game. Make it happen.
BrEnDAAA!!!! 🤣
Brenda should learn to blonk
April first maybe?
She can tricast it with Karen and Susan for emotional support, but she gotta do it.
Lol he wouldn't have a voice left after
Friggin love this guy.If i wasn't already subscribed to everything he has available I'd subscribe again right now.
I misspoke last time I talked about Protoss being trees. Nerve cords are analogous to dendrites, the fibers attached to the roots that trees use to communicate with one another, not the roots themselves.
Zerglings trade so well, best unit in the game. Used in all phases of the game
queens inject are what makes zergling op...nerf the queens and you'll see protoss acutally be able to compete.
@@cavemantero🧂
Hero's door: "Please, sir, come in"
3x mass blink stalkers. Well... cool.
thanks winter! You're the man, man!
omg i love watching Serral lol. He should be switched to The Surgeon.
Dude that's good. The surgeon
Thank You
Om nom nom
Insane
Anybody that thinks Serral lost a step is out of their minds. Dude is absolutely friggin insane.
That said, Protoss is reverse imba, christ, somebody throw those dudes a lifeline. IMO colossus needs a huge buff either to survivability or damage. I prefer survivability, because I don't like fights being won by "gotcha" moments, but they need something. Similarly, there is no reason for stalkers to be as awful in a straight up engagement as they are, for being so expensive and difficult to micro. Why are voidrays completely useless and everybody is okay with it? Why are Tempest such awful fighting units? Can we ever live in a world where Motherships are worth getting? Terran can make BC's 4 minutes into the game and it's worth it, Protoss rushing a Mothership is the most hysterical way to type "gg" that exists.
want to get this in before all the toss hate shows up.
I'm low rank so I feel strong enough but it is certainly just my enemies underestimating my units and not playing well. it atleast makes it hype when toss wins at pro though
Stalkers: If they got buffed at all protoss would win every single game in 6 minute blink stalker all in
Voidrays: Oracle is just too good
Tempests: Because their range is massive
Mothership: Having offensive recall is absolutely worth it every single time
Few things: stalkers have arguably the strongest ability in the game, meaning even with terrible stats per cost they can end up being ridiculously cost efficient. Making them any stronger could instantly make them IMBA, esspecially with 4 gate blink builds and the like already being fairly effective. some people have suggested a late game upgrade to give them a fighting buff, like adrenal for zerglings, but argue over what that would be.
Collosi, yeah, they ain't great. The 10 range bug does seem to help them out, but is it enough?.
Void rays are actually bugged, but they are kinda bad for a few reasons. One is that its anti armour flying that hits ground and air. That alone is a good unit, even if combat stats are nothing to write home about. Overlord hunting, roach defence, some scouting, they do a lot. Another is that for a long while, void ray into skytoss openings were the norm, and were rather opressive. Thus the void got nerfed about a year ago, costing a little nore and taking longer to build, and hasn't been touched since. And finally, it's currently bugged, flux vanes makes the prism alignment ability cause the void ray to go slower than it normally does, rather than being slowed but faster than normal prism alignment.
Tempests have the longest anti air range in the game, and joint longest anti ground range, plus bonous versus massive and bonous versus structures. They are the quintessential kiting and seige unit, so they would never be good in a straight fight. Thats more the domain of the carrier.
Finally, mothership is a support unit. Time warp and tactical recall are the bulk of its cost, along with massive hitpoints. Could definitely be buffed, maybe +1 damage on it's main weapon (currently 6 base, hitting 5 times, about every 1 second), and a lot of people have suggested no viper anducts. Also maybe give it the warp prisms deploy ability, just for the sake of it.
BC comparison is a little unfair,bas BCs are harassment units and cost efficiency units. They can fight effectively, but tactical jump can't move the rest of the army, nor can they debuff enemy units except for a single units HP by 230. Also the air to air i think is 5 damage a shot, air to ground is 7 i think, at 5 or 6 shots a second, so weirdly comparable DPS to mothership, for 100 less gas.
Zealots needs to get their classic SC1 movement speed back. Make it a 3rd upgrade if need be. Who thought it would be a good idea for melee units to be SLOW???
To improve colossus survivability is to remove it from being able to be target by air units,the amount of times i've seen colossus got obsolutely obliterated by opposing team usually by air units
Serral. Quite good.
Spooky thumbnail
Protoss Victory makes any day better.
Serral does the german taxi ..It's been a while..
hopefully hero keeps cooking. hes been on a pretty good roll for a while now.
Oof that third game tho...
Hero is the real champion, he is playing protoss and that is like playing on HARD LEVEL. We need balance
The ling surrounds!
In the lore there are wounded protoss on the dragoons, so there should be wounded protoss in the stalkers?
wounded dark templar specifically for the stalkers I think. That was the faction that had stalkers in the campaign and was their equivalent to dragoons, so it's likely they served the same purpose.
@@kaneconqueror6560 Thanks for fact checking that Kane
@@chessknight4415 no problem. I always preferred the campaign over ladder, and was confused by the lack of certain units when first playing. I want my medic infantry and vultures!
@@kaneconqueror6560 Yes, but the medics were way overpowered against zerg. vultures had good mines, but their attacks did little against hydra attacks
Brute force....*insert "at least you tried" meme here*
Our hero has fallen...
game 3 talk about cinematic zerg
herO should get with the times. I was massing Immortals all the way back in Wings of Liberty. In bronze league.
evolutionize 0:45
i wonder why hero was not making zelots
Great replays! I'm trying to learn from them, but after dropping from 3.5K MMR to 2.5K this year I'd really like to try to reverse that trend and figure out what the hell I'm doing wrong. Are there any Protoss tutors in particular you or anyone else would recommend? Main problem is hyperspeed rushes and 3 Hatch Hydra/Lurker.
so basically your main problem matchup is Zerg? ...what does Toss have that counters lurkers? I would guess Starport units and/or disruptors. So if you scout it before they ambush you, you should be able to counter it with any of the starport units as long as you're making observers/oracles. Easier said than done because you have to fire off dirsuptor shots to kill the hydras/lurkers while focusing the other support units. This is one of the reasons why Protoss is so tough competitvely. The have fewer units to target focus and typically more to target focus themselves.
For rushes its usually a scouting issue, then just build units which are good against what you scout. Certain ones do just require very particular responses, like 2 rax proxy marauder requiring 2 shield batteries, but generally it's just a matter of getting the right units out and microin.
Also see DTs. Rushes usually skimp on detection, so perma cloak will feck them over.
For hydra lurker, storm is your friend, becasue you need splash versus hydras, and by sticking high templar in a warp prism you can be very fast and go where the lurkers are not. Disrupters are also good, as they are best when rotating, and lurkers are bad against rotations. Just try to keep an observer or 2 with your army so you don't get jumped
For anything else, just watch the opponent's build, then play the race and do the build. When you lose, see what the opponent did, and try doing that against it next time you see that build, it's usually the best way to learn.
More like super-fast rushes in general, but 3 Hatch Hydra/Lurk is the worst. It's simply not possible to get many Disruptors or other units before it hits and destroys you. @@cavemantero
Watch Showtime. I stopped playing awhile ago, but found ~3 tempests made most zergs rage attack into your storms, while the tempests dealt with lurkers.
Just have to absolutely engage them on the field and not in your base.
@@Lightwolf_VR Cam I see the build order that lets you create Tempests and High Templar with Storm researched within 7-8 minutes? I can usually get Storm in time, but Lurkers have 200 HP so they can live through 2 Storms.
I mean does anyone expect that protoss would win?
For the algorithm
Serral had one amazing year, with an overpowered race, including a means of increasing the range of brood lords.
Since then, the race has seen numerous nerfs. Other zerg players continue to perform well, but Serral hasn't.
Give colossus 10 range. Let zealots burrow and heal.
I'll bet Hero has a year to match Serral's.
The only player who isn't "The Challenger" against Serral is Maru.
What an awesome showcase of sheer skill by Serral. it's really hundreds of small little details that allow him to get on top and wipe the floor with Hero. Lesser zerg will fall to the oracles adepts blink staalkers. Because they are crazily cost effective while microed correctly. But not Serral. Kinda shows why his ZvP off the charts. Almost hate him for that, because in the lower leages toss wipe the floor with the zerg. on he average. carrier archon HT almost unbeatable until 5k no matter what you do. even if you know what to do in theory
zerg has a lot more to manage to be competitive at a higher tier.
Protoss is more forgiving in that if you accidentally bank, you can instantly spend some of it depending on gateways.
@@GameFuMaster i mean. they say zerg can tech switch fast, and it's thier power. but say you want to switch to lategame comp, broodlord infestor, it requires insane amount of gaz. not 8 or 10. like 14, means you have to take 7 bases and defend it. And also survive until 7 bases. Almost feels like you build broods if you already won. And broods are so super shit for thier cost. Slow and make no damage. Toss can easily pump up carriers off 3 base from the other hand. And yes, even if they lost their archon carrier army, just remax on stalkers and you fcd. And you have like 20 useless corruptors. Even pro fall to this. Why zerg cant just build scourge of hatchery tech. Like banes.
So yeah, it's guys like serral are responsible for the zerg current pitiful state. I am not playing anymore. Used to be 3.7k zerg. And you have like 300 APM, trying to do 10 things at once. And lose to 70 apm toss who is starting from the stupid cannon rush. And these guys are sitting in D2
@@AxelTT555 I'm sure there are a lot of games where a race/faction is weak in lower skilled players but incredibly OP once you reach a certain level
@@AxelTT555that sounds like you don't know how to effectively use your units. Broodlords like tempest are siege units and should only be a small part of your army same as infestors which are spellcastors without a base attack. That's like saying mass Templar tempest sucks. Of course it does you need way to much control and it is incredibly fragile to a single emp and a mmm
anybody else think its bs that banelings don't do damage to friendly units?
at least they didn't give them splitter strain or the healing acid from the campaign.
@@kaneconqueror6560 I actually think it would be really interesting if players were allowed to select an upgrade from the campaigns to apply to a series or to an individual game. It would have to be scoutable early on of course (perhaps you'd have to click on the main to see it listed?) but it would provide a lot of variety to the game.
No, but only because banelings work in pack's and 2 shot each other. So you'd have a few dozen banelings run forward, have the first 2 detonate, then the rest chain react and hit nothing except maybe the rest of your army. Would be the worst unit in the game.
@@Santisima_Trinidad what it sounds like you're saying is that zerg players would need to make tactical choices and micro the unit to minimize the risk of friendly fire... oh the humanity
@@andrew6815 on one hand, yes, on the other hand, it's a swarm based suicide unit. Esspecially against terran, sending in low baneling numbers is worthless, they just get shot. And even if you send in a load kf zerglings to tank, the banelings will kill your own zerglings, so your cost efficiency is even worse.
For some reason I’m REALLY into the ZvT matchup recently. I find my stomach clenching when those disrupt or shots go off and have the potential to wipe half the Zerg Supply off the map :)
Disrupter shots in ZvT ?
Is it just me but Hydralisk would be way more efficient and he bad plenty of opportunities to tech up for it.
Donnie Vermillion here: Is Serral no longer washed up? Or is it true he has Blizzard hacks? Whatever the case the Zerg hitbox seems to be busted! News at 10:57 !
Your first, last and only stop for the truth.
👳♂️"Fresh oracles will be delivered to you...daily"
Have you ever thought about giving players their own intro music? Everytime I see Her0 introduced I hear Bonnie Tyler - Holding Out For A Hero x]
would be cool as long as it's better songs than that
DMCA giving him a bombastic sideeye
i will be your hero baby pum pum pum pum
And they say that a hero could save us
I'm not gonna stand here and wait
this 2 adept 1 orakel thing with their early high light attack is too default, low risk, potentially game deciding, while having a not-attackable wall at home
game 3 heros fault for not rushing disruptor 😮
I'll keep being annoying until somebody listens - why the fck are you not the main caster in big offline tournaments?
Idk i just think raynor is better because he not only plays the other races hes not a backboard abuser...cereal like most dry foods is predictable and leaves the mouth dry and wanting
"heros gotta start asking different questions"
like why does he still play protoss when he can win and play terran
3rd
Serral is more of the "Overseer" than the "Finnisher".
Complaints about his gameplay have to deal with excitement...........Serral dedicates so much to knowing all the options and working with what he thinks works best..........and his focus on scouting/evaluating is absolutely fucking unsurpassed.
People complaining about protoss weakness, ok, but in the long game here, serral was using aoe and hero wasn't. that's a recipe for losing any matchup.
Also, why would you go stalker / immortal and not expect the greatest zerg on earth and not expect him to punish you with lings? Its like trying to win with mass thor. Hero played stupid.
Immortals are more like marauders for protoss. They should cost just about 200/100, move as fast as stalkers and be produced 20% faster than they currently are.
Tbh, Immortals would be unbelievably OP with those changes. Moreso vs terran than vs Zerg really, since Zerg has speedlings.
Immortals could go back to their 250/100 cost, but they don't really need other buffs. In numbers, immortals are a solid unit; it can just be difficult to mass them. They also aren't particularly good when paired with stalkers vs mass Zerglings; Protoss can't trade efficiently with mass lings without splash damage, a tight chokepoint, or an upgrade advantage on Zealots (at least 1 attack above Zerg carapace). HerO didn't go for any archons, storm, or colossus in that game, and wasn't reinforcing the army with zealots, so the lings won.
@@Matt-ln7lb better yet, remove their active shield ability. Make em cost 175/100, fast as stalkers and produced 20% faster. Give stalkers the 45% attack speed boost from resonating glaives and +1 range with the blink upgrade.
Please More serral
I’ll be honest, I kinda want MaxPax to be the n1 toss in the world. It’s a debatable question cause I guess he could be but yea
Stalkers are so badddddd to mass
First
Protoss is kinda weak, uh?
Hero vs Serral is the ultimate click bait.
As someone that only spectates SC2, I just don't understand what the point of ravagers is against protoss. I've never once seen it actually work.
What about them don't work?
@@josephbraun7984 They just seem to do more friendly fire than actual damage to the enemy, assuming they even hit at all. Whenever i see them the player using them just seems to never actually get any real effect out of it despite having several ravagers as the core foundation of their army. Especially when their opponents can just blink out of the way every time and then just re-engage.
@@shadow7988 They don't line up particularly well against blink, but with all other comps, you have to actually move out of the way, and all the time you are moving, your units aren't fighting. Also worth noting that vs Stalkers and Immortals, they are actually tankier than Roaches despite having less health since they aren't armored and don't take bonus damage.
Add to that that they are faster and have more range (6 vs 4), you can get more of your army fighting with Ravagers behind Roaches/lings than you can with just pure Roach
@@shadow7988 I agree with everything MrSpleenface wrote. A few other notes are they help al lot vs static defense to quickly destroy an overcharged battery for example which may be buried and hard for lings to get to. And I forget exactly what the total cost of the ravager ends up being, but I think they are similar in cost to hydras, but definitely come on line quicker not needing to wait for multiple upgrades. And especially against blink stalkers having ranged damage is important due to the time it takes for the lings to get a surround so enough of them are fighting to do efficient damage.
@@MrSpleenface Wouldn't infestors with fungal be better? Or at least mixing some in? I mean, if the point is crowd control and zoning, why not just snare the enemy units and stop them moving at all?
i love this cannel an i mean nothing bad, is serral that fucking good?
Given his achievements yes. But Toss as a race is also quite fucked up.
Protoss is really neutered at the highest level of play. Which is why you don’t see Protoss grand champions. Blizzard balances mostly based on the ladder. So they nerf “OP” ladder strats. Which gimps Protoss at the highest level.
There is a reason Serrel plays Zerg. He would not be near as successful if he played Protoss. Protoss just aren’t built for the highest level of play. Which makes it that much more impressive when a Protoss player wins a major tournament. Because it is so rare.
Serral is incredible, and defintely the best zerg right now, but zerg is broken which is part of the reason he's had the success he has...if terran and protoss were balanced to zerg level players like Byun and Clem would win more often than not imo. You can't blame any of the zerg players for picking them though its Blizz who favors that race and has made it imba on purpose.
@@cavemantero I do not blame Serral for picking the strongest race. Just pointing out his success should be taken with a grain of salt, given that fact.
@@JamesDeanStudiesLanguage That is totally wrong. Blizzard has never balanced around the ladder - its always been the entirety of pro tournament results. Its only the very top where Protoss is weak (Premieres). You can see proof of this on aligulac (Misc > Balance Report page). Protoss is dominating the Major tournaments and has been for the last two years, which is why at pro level PvZ is still slightly Protoss favored.
Your comment that Serral's success should be "taken with a grain of salt" is just silly considered he is called the GOAT. Zerg is not the "strongest" race as the statistics show, it has the highest potential or "skill ceiling". So by definition Serral is the most skilled player.