I think MGSV would've been a perfect opportunity to explore a tangible connection between the brothers. After all, they both spent time in war-torn African countries during the 80s.
@@RokuDB I believe he says that because he’s a spitting image of big boss and solid snake trained under big boss. But you never know you could be right
There single scene in 2 encapsulated Liquid perfectly. Solidus has his two brothers and his son together, desperately trying to convince them of his plan. Meanwhile, Liquid ignores everything in its entirety, steals a metal gear, taunts snake, and then dips to go play war with his brother, as Solid leaps into the ocean to have, what must amount to, a fist fight with Ray. Honestly, I think that's how any interaction between the three would go. Solid and Liquid ignore everything for each other because all they know is "their purpose" and the last mission either of them had as an official soldier, was to eliminate each other. Meanwhile, Solidus is tearing out his hair while trying to get them to calm down and listen for five fucking minutes. This plea is met with deaf ears from liquid, and solid hears him, but doesn't care. Big Boss hosts Thanksgiving, and everything is awkward and silent, save for Raiden asking for war stories from his adoptive grandpa. Eventually, Liquid has too much to drink and tries to launch the turkey into the neighbors window while yelling about how Big Boss never let him play with power tools as a kid. Solid tries to stop him by biting the bullet and eating the entire turkey first. Solidus is begging them both to stop, Raiden is loving it, and Big Boss stares straight ahead with nothing but concern in his eyes for his gene pool.
You brought up a great point. I think people often overlook that Solidus would've been a child himself when he "raised" Raiden. No older than 17, but likely younger than that. That's not an excuse for anything he did, just an interesting detail to keep in mind. Really wish we got more glimpses into his past, especially during the 80s. Solidus is easily one of the most underrated (and underutilized) characters in the entire series IMO
It also shares certain parallels to the Gray Fox Naomi relationship (like both had an older but not fully adult solider adopting & raising a orphan of war, that they themselves made an orphan) but many who would easily call Solidus a clear villain, would often not think the same of Gray Fox Im not saying its any deep insight, just an interesting little thought that sprang to mind right now
@@shirokuma145 Mathematically, Solidus would be no older than 17 when he first took in Raiden. Solid and Liquid were born in 1972, and the results from that batch allowed them to create Solidus. So the earliest he could've been born was late 1972, and that's being generous. Then subtract the last possible year of the following decade (1989), you get 17. Plus, Raiden says he was about 6 when he held his first AK. So if the difference in their ages is 11 years, Solidus would still only be 17 at that time.
I always thought Solidus had basically given up by the time he told Raiden he killed his parents due to his plan being foiled and may have just been bluffing about it to get Raiden to kill him. Also, in the MGS2 Digital Graphic Novel, Solidus says he killed Raiden's parents during combat in Liberia.
Good in that he wanted to see the world not controlled by one will, but evil in that he wasn't opposed to completely using people like Raiden to achieve his goals
@@FutureDeep he named Raiden Jack after his father BB and Raiden named his son John so it isn't to big if a stretch that he went by John while rising raiden
John is a fake name Naked Snake used when Ocelot asked his name at the end of 3. He obviously didn't want to give him his real name as a CIA spy. It's the only time he uses this name. Naked Snakes name is Jack. So is Raiden. Named after BB. Solid is David. Liquid is Eli. Solidus is George.
This video makes me so happy! Solidus is my favorite character in the series. They had already captured lightning in a bottle with Solid Snake and Liquid Snake. Writing a sequel with a “third snake” should never have worked, but because of great writing and brilliant voice acting, it does work and it works flawlessly. His goals and ideals are grand and noble. It would be very interesting to have seen Solidus younger and more relaxed, as when we are introduced to him, he has already been marked for death by the Patriots. His every move has to be weighed to calculate for his survival, and still he thinks of the greater good for the nation he served and loved. Also, I think I have an answer to you question: why is it bad when Solidus wants to destroy the Patriots but good when Snake and Otacon do it? I think it has less to do with objective right and wrong and is more a matter of perspective. Ocelot’s perspective, to be more precise. Years earlier, Liquid wanted to take out the Patriots. Ocelot didn’t see him as worthy so instead of helping him, he abandoned him. Solidus wanted to take out the Patriots and again, Ocelot only pretended to help and in fact sabotaged the whole thing. Only Solid Snake could do what the others couldn’t.
He is the rare breed of Anti Villian Methods and ideals that are admirable but the ways he obtains and goes through the ideals is extremely questionable
If you know the difference between right and wrong then you can be and are held responsible for your actions. Solidus meant well but he knew what he was doing was wrong.
This is such an interesting point to bring up! I don't know that Solidus thought what he was doing was wrong (which doesn't erase the bad things he's done/was going to do). I think Solidus really felt justified in what he was doing
the "good" and "evil" are relative things. solidus ABSOLUTELY had the morally right motives for his actions during main storyline, the execution of them may look "evil", but in reality the only flaw in his plan was the fact that patriots(most likely through ocelot) turned everything into their shadow moses recreation. also his motives DO NOT justify his past actions - the child soldiers and sears program. Solidus is well balanced.
The sad thing is that Solidus could never win, that list of names was a fake, if he would have killed raiden it would change nothing. The big shell was the patriot’s greatest success. My only gripe with the game is how little Solid Snake talks about solidus, it’s like he doesn’t even acknowledge Solidus as a person.
@@luffiewebster well bb and solidus both mentally are the same because when bb was a child he most likely couldn't go to school for money purposes and at 15 he was taken by the boss so he didn't have room to mature as he was just back to back military programs
I think Solidus did the things the way he did them because that was the way he was taught to do things. You can raise a child wonderfully and it will grow up to be a wonderful person. You raise a person to be a cold effective weapon, even if it opposes to it, its gonna grow up to be a cold effective weapon. David probably had a somewhat healthy childhood and then was turned into a weapon. But Solidus like you said, physically probably looked like a 18-20yo, but his mind and experiences was 8yo, and was sent to kill. And what people speak the less is how they crucify Solidus for his war crimes and evil actions UNDER PATRIOTS ORDERS AND CONTROL, but look the other way with Big Boss' waaaaay longer list of war crimes that he did chose to commit, without anyone forcing him to do so. The only difference is that the majority of him are barely metioned, most happened way off camera and Kojima decided to redeem him at the last second, when Solidus didn't get that chance. Whether you think he's good or evil, we can all agree he didn't deserve to die... Specially remembering that in a beautifully ironic but sad way the game don't even let us hear his last words. He was denied something to pass on even in his last breath...💔
The way I see it, Solidus is an anti-villain. I used to confuse him as an anti-hero, but an anti-hero is more like a bad guy who does the right thing for the wrong reasons and has no heroic goals (at least most of the time). On the other hand, an anti-villain does the wrong thing for the right reasons. His ultimate goal is a heroic one, but he does bad things to achieve it because he believes it's necessary (and sometimes it is). Of course, there are many different levels of anti-hero and anti-villain, but this is the simplest way to describe them.
dualism is terrible writing imo, and anti-(whatever) is the band aid they put on top of the fact of how unrealistic "good" and "evil" are. Especially "evil". Good can stand on it's own but evil can't. For an evil character to be interesting at all they need some good, or else they'd just be a unrealistic satan-figure every time
@@LethalBubbles Yeah, back in the old days, good and evil were always black and white in both movies and video games. Either they kidnap a princess or try to take over the world for no reason. Nowadays, they like to humanize the villains, which is cool in it's own way.
I’ve always thought Solidus Snake is not necessarily evil or good, just like the Patriots. MGS2 had themes about free thinking and politics, and how people will reside in one specific group with certain beliefs and never consider or look into any other beliefs out there out of ignorance, self righteousness and mental self preservation. I believe Solidus and the Patriots represent two opposing sides and how both are much more complex with positives and negatives than just being “bad” or “good”.
Was he good? Was he evil? Who can really say? But i know what he was in the end: he was right. Although if he succeeded in killing Raiden, the Patriots would've never been taken down, so there's that, I guess. Also, something no one ever talks about is his legacy. His final monologue had him confess that all he wants is to be remembered, preferably for liberating America. In Revengeance (no, I'm not gonna get into whether it should be canon or not, so don't bother), we see that he IS remembered. The catch? He's not remembered as a revolutionary or a freedom fighter. He was remembered only for his use of child soldiers. Kevin says the words "George Sears, a.k.a. Solidus Snake" with vitriol and disgust. Desperado's project to kidnap children and mold them into miniature Raidens was named "The Sears Program" after him.
The virus Snake used to destroy the Patriots kept the utility services, power, medical, everything like that, intact. Had Solidus gotten what he wanted the world would be in chaos.
When Snake fought Olga he tranquilized her, then later rescued her from a sinking ship. When Solidus fought Olga he disarmed her then shot her in the head after doing a sick gun spin.
Solidus Snake isn't exactly "good"; however, he is the character I would have sided with if I ever had to choose in MGS2. Solidus had good intentions, aiming to free the world from The Patriots, but he did engage in quite a few malevolent actions. Solidus was not a good man but a true patriot who loved his country. One aspect you didn't cover in the video is his complete idolization of the founding fathers of the United States, particularly George Washington, though he was likely influenced by others as well. I will provide you with a series of quotes from the founding fathers, offering just a small example of the ideals Solidus believed in. - "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." - Thomas Jefferson - "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) asserts that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." - Thomas Jefferson - "The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for, among old parchments, or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased or obscured by mortal power." - Alexander Hamilton - "The Constitution is the guide which I will never abandon." - George Washington - "The great object is that every man be armed." - Patrick Henry "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." -Benjamin Franklin With these examples, I'm sure you can see why Solidus found the Patriots as an organization to be the complete antithesis of his beliefs, something that needed to be destroyed at all costs. Now, something you might have noticed with some of the quotes from the founding fathers I posted keeps on enforcing the value of the armed citizen. Something that constantly gets overlooked is that by the time of MGS4, the general population is about to be completely disarmed. The Patriots have almost complete control over individual weapons, and it is explicitly stated that once the military testing is over, it's going to be introduced to the normal population. The concept of ID-locked weapons existed before MGS4, back in MGS2. In fact, you can say it was even introduced in MGS1 when Naomi locks you out of using your weapons. The reason this is important is because Solidus understands what comes next: a complete Monopoly on Force by the Patriots. This doesn't mean the Patriots will step in very often when it comes to the use of firearms for personal or criminal use, but it does give them the ability to disarm anybody they deem a threat to them at any given moment. It's becoming impossible to fight back. It's a common mistake to label the Patriots as fascists. The artificial intelligence and the original members. The Patriots, as an organization, are way more totalitarian than authoritarian. They act in a way that only some of the Communist Powers could have ever dreamed. Authoritarian states typically concentrate power in a single leader or a small group, allowing some degree of social, economic, or political autonomy. In contrast, totalitarian states seek complete control over all aspects of public and private life, often employing extensive surveillance and ideological manipulation to maintain dominance. Totalitarianism is more pervasive and intrusive than authoritarianism. The entire organization is mostly collectivist, and they desire control over the individual. If you want examples, go look at the conversation between the AI and Raiden at the end of MGS2. Obviously, the Patriots do have some authoritarian tendencies, but that was true of the Soviet Union and the Communist party of China just as it was true for the Nazi party having totalitarian tendencies as well, even though it was mostly authoritarian.
He's practically Big Boss 2.0., but Solidius actions are still questionable and is a just as bad if not worse than Big Boss. As Naked Snake, John was very much like Solid Snake, but was driven into the idea after being used to kill his mother figure and Mentor he became Big Boss and developed the belief mindset that the world needed soldiers and to achieve this goal was to indulge and create a world where war never stopped in his Outer Heaven.
I agree with you and I think that he is the antagonist. because we play (mostly) as Raiden and he is being used by the Patriots, that made him believe that Solidus is a villian, when in fact, he isnt't. (the same applies to the majority of other MGS Antagonists, specially Big Boss in MG1 and MG2: Solid Snake)
I know I'm late, but I always viewed Solidus as a man who wanted to prove his own worth as a "successor" of Big Boss (he's the son who respected him the most), as well as wanting to put an end to the Patriots since they control everything, from media to censorship to the military. Not just that, but the Patriots are what made Solidus what he is, stripped him of being able to have offspring, made use of him as a puppet and even sent him to war when he was a child. His intentions are somewhat noble, bring down the Patriots and be the man to lead the way. But having a child soldier unit, threatening the world with nuclear weapons - obviously not "good guy" behaviour. Funnily enough, the fact that Solid Snake and Otacon bring down the Patriots (and Snake himself says Solidus was right) already proves that he was, ultimately, correct in many of his ideas, even if his execution of them was not. But, even then, he was a lot like his father. He had become a seed of war and tried to free himself and the world from those who controlled them, but just didn't care about the casualties it would bring... He actually suffered a pretty tragic fate
The hydrogen bomb is fake. This is explained in the Master Collection MGS2 book. Even Ocelot says "That story about the purified hydrogen bomb is just the tip of the iceberg." It never existed.
@@richardray6258 so he scammed deadcell which resulted in furtune's death that made vamp dedicate the rest of his life to killing Raiden and snavid. All because of solidus he kill fortune and made a hellbent vamp
@rachelcobb2209 Well, the hydrogen bomb was made up to fall in line with the nuclear strike like in MGS1. Of course, this is explained before we know what the real S3 plan is. It was a diversion.
IMO, Solidus and Raiden were actually after the same objective (the eradication of Metal Gear), they just had totally different means and purposes for doing it.
Solidus wasn't born the same way as Solid and Liquid. He was cloned from a different experiment. He wasn't 8 years old and a commander, he was an adult.
Is he evil? Yes. Was that path entirely his own choice? No. We already have his brother as proof to thar Solidus is evil: Solid Snake would never have killed a mother who betrayed him to save her child. Solid Snake would never have given a terrorist group a hydrogen bomb and Solid Snake would not have "raised' Raiden to be a killer. Solidus is a man with layers, but still an evil man.
Solidus is like the Dead Cell, they are good guys, but the Patriots framed them as the bad guys, and the world won't believe Solidus and the Dead Cell. When Vamp told Raiden that their goal is to wipe the Patriots from the face of the Earth, Raiden called him insane while Vamp replied that they (Dead Cell) might be the only ones telling the truth. The GW Colonel even lied to Raiden several times such as one hostage being killed and more will be killed every hour and the 30-billion-dollar ransom. Fatman and Richard Aimes were surprised and didn't know what Raiden was talking about when he brought these up. Solidus is an honorable and patriotic American who wants to destroy the Patriots forever to free the US from their control and to restore the civil liberties and rights of the Americans. Solidus wasn't perfect, but he had to make hard decisions especially considering that the world is deceived into thinking of him and his organization as terrorists while the Patriots is the true terrorist. A huge testament to Solidus' honorable personality is he didn't kill Raiden easily despite having a clear chance of doing so and needing to kill him to get information from him to achieve his mission, but he chose to cut Raiden's cuff and give him his sword back to give him a chance to defend himself which shows that Solidus is indeed not a monster.
@beschde4818 I didn't know that. What I know is Solidus' fear of what the Patriots will do became true with the war economy and their plans to extend their control to the civilian population, and he may have lied to Raiden about killing his parents to give the latter every motivation to fight and kill him which will ensure that Raiden will not hold back and show no mercy.
@@mr.monkey354 due to the state of the Dead Cell and the USA that time, Solidus needed to make hard decisions, even decisions which will most likely haunt him for the rest of his life because it's very unlikely that he will get support from the people, both military and civilian since The Patriots have control on the flow of information. They were even able to frame Jackson and successfully have him imprisoned for crimes he did not commit. If he doesn't stand up against The Patriots, then who will? The Patriots are the evils which must be destroyed. In MGS4, Naomi implied that The Patriots are planning to extend their control to the civilian population when she said that they have plans to inject nanomachines to civilians too. He failed to destroy that evil while Ocelot succeeded.
Solidus wasn't a child during the war . Your assuming mentality is based on how old someone is, but the simple facts thanks to his accelerating aging, he was mentally an adult
Solidus is not a good guy, but not fully a bad guy either. He is very roughly a end-stage libertarian that is willing to do awful things to get where wants to be. He's a very grey character (deep grey). Espescially the Liberia-thing is NOT doing him favours. Or that he started the whole Shadow Moses incident on his own.
Spoilers below! According to the Master Collection book. The hydrogen bomb that was in Arsenal Gear was a setup. The book claims that it doesn't exist, and was a lie to recreate Shadow Moses's REX stealth weapon bomb. This is later told by Ocelot to as he says "We've gone through alot of trouble to set you up against the boy. That story about the purified hydrogen bomb is just the tip of the iceberg." So regarding about Solidus not caring about Dead Cell having Arsenal, it's hard to pinpoint whether or not he actually knew.
I think he's written as having sympathetic goals but problematic methods. he's a right wing libertarian radical anarchist basically. I think Raiden's words that he just wants power is a typical response. A real world counterpart may be Ross Ulbricht, who created the online Silk Road that let you buy drugs and guns and stuff that was against the law. Ross has some sympathetic goals, he's trying to get the middle man out of finance, trying to let people have the personal responsibility to put what they consent to in their body, trying to keep payment processors from bullying around what you can purchase and so on. But the FBI set him up as a kingpin to show that he "just wants power". Sounds a bit similar to Solidus and Ocelot. You could expand it into entire states. How many revolutions have occurred, and the victor ends up acting just like whoever they replaced? Solidus could be compared to someone like Snowflake the Pig from Animal Farm, who is a left-wing example. "Let's all rise up against the farmers" but then he becomes like them. Or the real world soviets, who said "oh we represent the peasant's interests" but then barely gave the resources to live on, instituting Stalinist purges and so on. But even they aren't all the way bad, they were quite heroic during WW2 for example. Solidus is a good character because he's not good or bad, he's human.
I would love to but I don't know the first thing about Fortnight 😅 There are a ton of really great content creators that have covered the Snake Fortnight skin already tho! My personal opinion on Snake in Fortnight is I'm glad there are more eyes on Snake and I hope it brings more fans to the MGS franchise
He’s the antagonist. But when looking at his morality, he is an anti-villain. He is someone trying to accomplish good, but ultimately is the villain through his evil means of getting said good.
Except that reasoning is BS. He only wants people to have freedom to remember his existence. He only knows how to exist by spreading chaos, trauma, and death, and that is exactly what will happen if he were to succeed in his plan.
True raising child soldiers isn't a very good person thing to do, but he was a child himself at that point so can we really blame him? Or should we blame his upbringing and the Patriots for sending him to Liberia in the first place? Solidus is def a really great grey area character!
Soldius and Liquid interactions would be legendary
Ngl i wish we saw it since solidus said to solid snake “you don’t recognise me, brother” meaning they spoke before or something
I think MGSV would've been a perfect opportunity to explore a tangible connection between the brothers. After all, they both spent time in war-torn African countries during the 80s.
@@RokuDB I believe he says that because he’s a spitting image of big boss and solid snake trained under big boss. But you never know you could be right
Right?? I would have loved to see Solidus deal with Liquid haha he was already so full of sighs dealing with Ghost Liquid 😂
There single scene in 2 encapsulated Liquid perfectly. Solidus has his two brothers and his son together, desperately trying to convince them of his plan.
Meanwhile, Liquid ignores everything in its entirety, steals a metal gear, taunts snake, and then dips to go play war with his brother, as Solid leaps into the ocean to have, what must amount to, a fist fight with Ray.
Honestly, I think that's how any interaction between the three would go. Solid and Liquid ignore everything for each other because all they know is "their purpose" and the last mission either of them had as an official soldier, was to eliminate each other. Meanwhile, Solidus is tearing out his hair while trying to get them to calm down and listen for five fucking minutes. This plea is met with deaf ears from liquid, and solid hears him, but doesn't care.
Big Boss hosts Thanksgiving, and everything is awkward and silent, save for Raiden asking for war stories from his adoptive grandpa. Eventually, Liquid has too much to drink and tries to launch the turkey into the neighbors window while yelling about how Big Boss never let him play with power tools as a kid. Solid tries to stop him by biting the bullet and eating the entire turkey first. Solidus is begging them both to stop, Raiden is loving it, and Big Boss stares straight ahead with nothing but concern in his eyes for his gene pool.
You brought up a great point. I think people often overlook that Solidus would've been a child himself when he "raised" Raiden. No older than 17, but likely younger than that. That's not an excuse for anything he did, just an interesting detail to keep in mind.
Really wish we got more glimpses into his past, especially during the 80s. Solidus is easily one of the most underrated (and underutilized) characters in the entire series IMO
It feels like Solidus never left that battlefield. He's still spreading trauma and death as a means to imprint himself upon the world.
It also shares certain parallels to the Gray Fox Naomi relationship (like both had an older but not fully adult solider adopting & raising a orphan of war, that they themselves made an orphan) but many who would easily call Solidus a clear villain, would often not think the same of Gray Fox
Im not saying its any deep insight, just an interesting little thought that sprang to mind right now
Yeah!! Omg I'd love to play a game that explored Solidus's past! He really is so underrated and underutilized, esp compared to the rest of the Snakes
I'd say around 21 years old as Raiden looked around 10 years old when they showed a drawing of his chilhood and Solidus is 11 years older than him
@@shirokuma145 Mathematically, Solidus would be no older than 17 when he first took in Raiden. Solid and Liquid were born in 1972, and the results from that batch allowed them to create Solidus. So the earliest he could've been born was late 1972, and that's being generous. Then subtract the last possible year of the following decade (1989), you get 17.
Plus, Raiden says he was about 6 when he held his first AK. So if the difference in their ages is 11 years, Solidus would still only be 17 at that time.
I'm a simple man.
I see Metal Gear Solid content I click and like Metal Gear Solid content.
I'm a simple CZcamsr.
I see Metal Gear Solid comment and I click and like Metal Gear Solid comment.
I always thought Solidus had basically given up by the time he told Raiden he killed his parents due to his plan being foiled and may have just been bluffing about it to get Raiden to kill him.
Also, in the MGS2 Digital Graphic Novel, Solidus says he killed Raiden's parents during combat in Liberia.
:O I'd never thought about Solidus potentially bluffing to get Raiden to kill him! That's such a sad thought!
John Cygan's performance was absolutely amazing. This and his work on KOTOR. Pure gold.
Good in that he wanted to see the world not controlled by one will, but evil in that he wasn't opposed to completely using people like Raiden to achieve his goals
He didn't care about who or what controlled the world, he just wanted to exist. And he expressed that wish by spreading trauma and death.
This is a very fair assessment of Solidus! He def has both good and bad in him
He went by John (the name of BB his father.) when he kidnapped Raiden, meaning Raiden is John the 3rd. Meaning
Raiden's son is named John the fourth.
A whole clan of Johns.
Although I don't know where you got that George Sears went by John at that point.
Wasn't Big Boss named Jack?
@@notme8232 he publicly went by John and Jack
@@FutureDeep he named Raiden Jack after his father BB and Raiden named his son John so it isn't to big if a stretch that he went by John while rising raiden
John is a fake name Naked Snake used when Ocelot asked his name at the end of 3. He obviously didn't want to give him his real name as a CIA spy. It's the only time he uses this name.
Naked Snakes name is Jack. So is Raiden. Named after BB.
Solid is David. Liquid is Eli. Solidus is George.
This video makes me so happy! Solidus is my favorite character in the series. They had already captured lightning in a bottle with Solid Snake and Liquid Snake. Writing a sequel with a “third snake” should never have worked, but because of great writing and brilliant voice acting, it does work and it works flawlessly. His goals and ideals are grand and noble. It would be very interesting to have seen Solidus younger and more relaxed, as when we are introduced to him, he has already been marked for death by the Patriots. His every move has to be weighed to calculate for his survival, and still he thinks of the greater good for the nation he served and loved.
Also, I think I have an answer to you question: why is it bad when Solidus wants to destroy the Patriots but good when Snake and Otacon do it? I think it has less to do with objective right and wrong and is more a matter of perspective. Ocelot’s perspective, to be more precise. Years earlier, Liquid wanted to take out the Patriots. Ocelot didn’t see him as worthy so instead of helping him, he abandoned him. Solidus wanted to take out the Patriots and again, Ocelot only pretended to help and in fact sabotaged the whole thing. Only Solid Snake could do what the others couldn’t.
Nobody ever mentions that Solidus was president aswell lol
I will never not be amused that Solidus was president 😂
Coming fresh from George's (Salonikh, not Sears) stream to see this, the timing couldn't be better.
Hey, same! Solidus would be glad to see he's not been forgotten.
Awesome! I love when stuff works out like that
He is the rare breed of Anti Villian
Methods and ideals that are admirable but the ways he obtains and goes through the ideals is extremely questionable
100%
If you know the difference between right and wrong then you can be and are held responsible for your actions. Solidus meant well but he knew what he was doing was wrong.
This is such an interesting point to bring up! I don't know that Solidus thought what he was doing was wrong (which doesn't erase the bad things he's done/was going to do). I think Solidus really felt justified in what he was doing
the "good" and "evil" are relative things. solidus ABSOLUTELY had the morally right motives for his actions during main storyline, the execution of them may look "evil", but in reality the only flaw in his plan was the fact that patriots(most likely through ocelot) turned everything into their shadow moses recreation.
also his motives DO NOT justify his past actions - the child soldiers and sears program.
Solidus is well balanced.
The sad thing is that Solidus could never win, that list of names was a fake, if he would have killed raiden it would change nothing. The big shell was the patriot’s greatest success. My only gripe with the game is how little Solid Snake talks about solidus, it’s like he doesn’t even acknowledge Solidus as a person.
in this household we love solidus snake ❤
Yes we do! o7
Also if solidus is pardoned for child soldiers then so is BB, both were in the military as children
Big boss isn’t pardoned or forgiven for it using child soldiers lol
Then neither is solidus as their crimes are synonymous
Both are horrible people
The big difference is Solidus was a child while using child soldiers and BB is an adult haha
@@luffiewebster well bb and solidus both mentally are the same because when bb was a child he most likely couldn't go to school for money purposes and at 15 he was taken by the boss so he didn't have room to mature as he was just back to back military programs
I think Solidus did the things the way he did them because that was the way he was taught to do things.
You can raise a child wonderfully and it will grow up to be a wonderful person.
You raise a person to be a cold effective weapon, even if it opposes to it, its gonna grow up to be a cold effective weapon.
David probably had a somewhat healthy childhood and then was turned into a weapon. But Solidus like you said, physically probably looked like a 18-20yo, but his mind and experiences was 8yo, and was sent to kill.
And what people speak the less is how they crucify Solidus for his war crimes and evil actions UNDER PATRIOTS ORDERS AND CONTROL, but look the other way with Big Boss' waaaaay longer list of war crimes that he did chose to commit, without anyone forcing him to do so. The only difference is that the majority of him are barely metioned, most happened way off camera and Kojima decided to redeem him at the last second, when Solidus didn't get that chance.
Whether you think he's good or evil, we can all agree he didn't deserve to die...
Specially remembering that in a beautifully ironic but sad way the game don't even let us hear his last words. He was denied something to pass on even in his last breath...💔
Considering the end of mgs 4, Solidus was fairy screwed over
The way I see it, Solidus is an anti-villain. I used to confuse him as an anti-hero, but an anti-hero is more like a bad guy who does the right thing for the wrong reasons and has no heroic goals (at least most of the time). On the other hand, an anti-villain does the wrong thing for the right reasons. His ultimate goal is a heroic one, but he does bad things to achieve it because he believes it's necessary (and sometimes it is). Of course, there are many different levels of anti-hero and anti-villain, but this is the simplest way to describe them.
dualism is terrible writing imo, and anti-(whatever) is the band aid they put on top of the fact of how unrealistic "good" and "evil" are. Especially "evil". Good can stand on it's own but evil can't. For an evil character to be interesting at all they need some good, or else they'd just be a unrealistic satan-figure every time
@@LethalBubbles Yeah, back in the old days, good and evil were always black and white in both movies and video games. Either they kidnap a princess or try to take over the world for no reason. Nowadays, they like to humanize the villains, which is cool in it's own way.
@@Chris_P_Bacon62 in real life, it's grey
I’ve always thought Solidus Snake is not necessarily evil or good, just like the Patriots. MGS2 had themes about free thinking and politics, and how people will reside in one specific group with certain beliefs and never consider or look into any other beliefs out there out of ignorance, self righteousness and mental self preservation. I believe Solidus and the Patriots represent two opposing sides and how both are much more complex with positives and negatives than just being “bad” or “good”.
Was he good? Was he evil? Who can really say? But i know what he was in the end: he was right. Although if he succeeded in killing Raiden, the Patriots would've never been taken down, so there's that, I guess.
Also, something no one ever talks about is his legacy. His final monologue had him confess that all he wants is to be remembered, preferably for liberating America. In Revengeance (no, I'm not gonna get into whether it should be canon or not, so don't bother), we see that he IS remembered. The catch? He's not remembered as a revolutionary or a freedom fighter. He was remembered only for his use of child soldiers. Kevin says the words "George Sears, a.k.a. Solidus Snake" with vitriol and disgust. Desperado's project to kidnap children and mold them into miniature Raidens was named "The Sears Program" after him.
If Snake is a hero, I don't see how Solidus is a villain.
The virus Snake used to destroy the Patriots kept the utility services, power, medical, everything like that, intact.
Had Solidus gotten what he wanted the world would be in chaos.
When Snake fought Olga he tranquilized her, then later rescued her from a sinking ship.
When Solidus fought Olga he disarmed her then shot her in the head after doing a sick gun spin.
Child soldiers and Killing Jack's parents
@@FutureDeep *conveniently forgets Sniper Wolf
@@REDEEMERWOLF by that logic everyone in MSF and diamond dogs is a villain
Solidus Snake isn't exactly "good"; however, he is the character I would have sided with if I ever had to choose in MGS2. Solidus had good intentions, aiming to free the world from The Patriots, but he did engage in quite a few malevolent actions. Solidus was not a good man but a true patriot who loved his country.
One aspect you didn't cover in the video is his complete idolization of the founding fathers of the United States, particularly George Washington, though he was likely influenced by others as well. I will provide you with a series of quotes from the founding fathers, offering just a small example of the ideals Solidus believed in.
- "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." - Thomas Jefferson
- "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) asserts that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." - Thomas Jefferson
- "The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for, among old parchments, or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased or obscured by mortal power." - Alexander Hamilton
- "The Constitution is the guide which I will never abandon." - George Washington
- "The great object is that every man be armed." - Patrick Henry
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." -Benjamin Franklin
With these examples, I'm sure you can see why Solidus found the Patriots as an organization to be the complete antithesis of his beliefs, something that needed to be destroyed at all costs. Now, something you might have noticed with some of the quotes from the founding fathers I posted keeps on enforcing the value of the armed citizen. Something that constantly gets overlooked is that by the time of MGS4, the general population is about to be completely disarmed. The Patriots have almost complete control over individual weapons, and it is explicitly stated that once the military testing is over, it's going to be introduced to the normal population. The concept of ID-locked weapons existed before MGS4, back in MGS2. In fact, you can say it was even introduced in MGS1 when Naomi locks you out of using your weapons. The reason this is important is because Solidus understands what comes next: a complete Monopoly on Force by the Patriots. This doesn't mean the Patriots will step in very often when it comes to the use of firearms for personal or criminal use, but it does give them the ability to disarm anybody they deem a threat to them at any given moment. It's becoming impossible to fight back.
It's a common mistake to label the Patriots as fascists. The artificial intelligence and the original members. The Patriots, as an organization, are way more totalitarian than authoritarian. They act in a way that only some of the Communist Powers could have ever dreamed. Authoritarian states typically concentrate power in a single leader or a small group, allowing some degree of social, economic, or political autonomy. In contrast, totalitarian states seek complete control over all aspects of public and private life, often employing extensive surveillance and ideological manipulation to maintain dominance. Totalitarianism is more pervasive and intrusive than authoritarianism.
The entire organization is mostly collectivist, and they desire control over the individual. If you want examples, go look at the conversation between the AI and Raiden at the end of MGS2. Obviously, the Patriots do have some authoritarian tendencies, but that was true of the Soviet Union and the Communist party of China just as it was true for the Nazi party having totalitarian tendencies as well, even though it was mostly authoritarian.
He's practically Big Boss 2.0., but Solidius actions are still questionable and is a just as bad if not worse than Big Boss. As Naked Snake, John was very much like Solid Snake, but was driven into the idea after being used to kill his mother figure and Mentor he became Big Boss and developed the belief mindset that the world needed soldiers and to achieve this goal was to indulge and create a world where war never stopped in his Outer Heaven.
I agree with you and I think that he is the antagonist. because we play (mostly) as Raiden and he is being used by the Patriots, that made him believe that Solidus is a villian, when in fact, he isnt't. (the same applies to the majority of other MGS Antagonists, specially Big Boss in MG1 and MG2: Solid Snake)
I know I'm late, but I always viewed Solidus as a man who wanted to prove his own worth as a "successor" of Big Boss (he's the son who respected him the most), as well as wanting to put an end to the Patriots since they control everything, from media to censorship to the military. Not just that, but the Patriots are what made Solidus what he is, stripped him of being able to have offspring, made use of him as a puppet and even sent him to war when he was a child.
His intentions are somewhat noble, bring down the Patriots and be the man to lead the way. But having a child soldier unit, threatening the world with nuclear weapons - obviously not "good guy" behaviour. Funnily enough, the fact that Solid Snake and Otacon bring down the Patriots (and Snake himself says Solidus was right) already proves that he was, ultimately, correct in many of his ideas, even if his execution of them was not. But, even then, he was a lot like his father. He had become a seed of war and tried to free himself and the world from those who controlled them, but just didn't care about the casualties it would bring... He actually suffered a pretty tragic fate
He along with The Boss, both died true patriots.
The hero of MGS2!
Raiden definitely should have let Solidus harvest the nanomachines in his cerebral cortex. He's so obviously the hero of the story.
It makes me wonder how things would have changed had Solidus teamed up with Snavid to take down the Patriots haha
I see Solidus as an extreme vigilante. His goals are noble and just, but his methods are terrible
I remember the first time I beat MGS2, back when it came out, and I still feel like his death was the bad ending.
i love solidus
Perhaps I was wrong about Solidus............
He was going to hand over hydrogen bomb over to deadcell in exchange for protection
The hydrogen bomb is fake. This is explained in the Master Collection MGS2 book. Even Ocelot says "That story about the purified hydrogen bomb is just the tip of the iceberg." It never existed.
@@richardray6258 so he scammed deadcell which resulted in furtune's death that made vamp dedicate the rest of his life to killing Raiden and snavid. All because of solidus he kill fortune and made a hellbent vamp
@rachelcobb2209 Well, the hydrogen bomb was made up to fall in line with the nuclear strike like in MGS1. Of course, this is explained before we know what the real S3 plan is. It was a diversion.
@@richardray6258 ok
Rare game. Still amazing to this day.
IMO, Solidus and Raiden were actually after the same objective (the eradication of Metal Gear), they just had totally different means and purposes for doing it.
He is a good Guy 👍
The end doesn’t justify the means
That is NOT Solid Snake!
Bro he might as well be with that stupid name I mean soldius snake might well call him solider snake.
I had never considered the main theme to be able to be a western or generally elevator worthy...
preach it sister
Solidus wasn't born the same way as Solid and Liquid. He was cloned from a different experiment. He wasn't 8 years old and a commander, he was an adult.
I’m pretty sure Solidus was the first iteration of Elon Musk. Going on X, I get lots of George Sears vibes.
Is he evil? Yes.
Was that path entirely his own choice? No.
We already have his brother as proof to thar Solidus is evil: Solid Snake would never have killed a mother who betrayed him to save her child. Solid Snake would never have given a terrorist group a hydrogen bomb and Solid Snake would not have "raised' Raiden to be a killer.
Solidus is a man with layers, but still an evil man.
Solidus is like the Dead Cell, they are good guys, but the Patriots framed them as the bad guys, and the world won't believe Solidus and the Dead Cell. When Vamp told Raiden that their goal is to wipe the Patriots from the face of the Earth, Raiden called him insane while Vamp replied that they (Dead Cell) might be the only ones telling the truth.
The GW Colonel even lied to Raiden several times such as one hostage being killed and more will be killed every hour and the 30-billion-dollar ransom. Fatman and Richard Aimes were surprised and didn't know what Raiden was talking about when he brought these up.
Solidus is an honorable and patriotic American who wants to destroy the Patriots forever to free the US from their control and to restore the civil liberties and rights of the Americans. Solidus wasn't perfect, but he had to make hard decisions especially considering that the world is deceived into thinking of him and his organization as terrorists while the Patriots is the true terrorist. A huge testament to Solidus' honorable personality is he didn't kill Raiden easily despite having a clear chance of doing so and needing to kill him to get information from him to achieve his mission, but he chose to cut Raiden's cuff and give him his sword back to give him a chance to defend himself which shows that Solidus is indeed not a monster.
It's pretty Bad that they didn't tell fatman considering He was a Patriot Agent
@beschde4818 I didn't know that. What I know is Solidus' fear of what the Patriots will do became true with the war economy and their plans to extend their control to the civilian population, and he may have lied to Raiden about killing his parents to give the latter every motivation to fight and kill him which will ensure that Raiden will not hold back and show no mercy.
But they were still killing people, when you disable all the electronics in a city that includes medical equipment.
Neither side is good
@@mr.monkey354 due to the state of the Dead Cell and the USA that time, Solidus needed to make hard decisions, even decisions which will most likely haunt him for the rest of his life because it's very unlikely that he will get support from the people, both military and civilian since The Patriots have control on the flow of information. They were even able to frame Jackson and successfully have him imprisoned for crimes he did not commit. If he doesn't stand up against The Patriots, then who will? The Patriots are the evils which must be destroyed. In MGS4, Naomi implied that The Patriots are planning to extend their control to the civilian population when she said that they have plans to inject nanomachines to civilians too. He failed to destroy that evil while Ocelot succeeded.
Solidus wasn't a child during the war . Your assuming mentality is based on how old someone is, but the simple facts thanks to his accelerating aging, he was mentally an adult
i would say he‘s an antihero.
Solidus is not a good guy, but not fully a bad guy either. He is very roughly a end-stage libertarian that is willing to do awful things to get where wants to be. He's a very grey character (deep grey). Espescially the Liberia-thing is NOT doing him favours. Or that he started the whole Shadow Moses incident on his own.
After playing Metal Gear 5… I really am questioning whose the good and bad guy in the Metal Gear series 😮
not me big boss is the good guy
Right?? It's never clear who the good and the bad guy is in Metal Gear Solid, which is one of the reasons I love the series so much
@@BigBossultrastealthyou just wanted the patriots gone so you could have a world of endless war.
Spoilers below!
According to the Master Collection book. The hydrogen bomb that was in Arsenal Gear was a setup. The book claims that it doesn't exist, and was a lie to recreate Shadow Moses's REX stealth weapon bomb. This is later told by Ocelot to as he says "We've gone through alot of trouble to set you up against the boy. That story about the purified hydrogen bomb is just the tip of the iceberg." So regarding about Solidus not caring about Dead Cell having Arsenal, it's hard to pinpoint whether or not he actually knew.
What makes a Villain a villain? tentacles, I've seen enough hentai to know good guys don't use tentacles
I think he's written as having sympathetic goals but problematic methods. he's a right wing libertarian radical anarchist basically. I think Raiden's words that he just wants power is a typical response. A real world counterpart may be Ross Ulbricht, who created the online Silk Road that let you buy drugs and guns and stuff that was against the law. Ross has some sympathetic goals, he's trying to get the middle man out of finance, trying to let people have the personal responsibility to put what they consent to in their body, trying to keep payment processors from bullying around what you can purchase and so on. But the FBI set him up as a kingpin to show that he "just wants power". Sounds a bit similar to Solidus and Ocelot.
You could expand it into entire states. How many revolutions have occurred, and the victor ends up acting just like whoever they replaced? Solidus could be compared to someone like Snowflake the Pig from Animal Farm, who is a left-wing example. "Let's all rise up against the farmers" but then he becomes like them. Or the real world soviets, who said "oh we represent the peasant's interests" but then barely gave the resources to live on, instituting Stalinist purges and so on. But even they aren't all the way bad, they were quite heroic during WW2 for example.
Solidus is a good character because he's not good or bad, he's human.
If youre not involved with getting in his way.
Solidus is more a tweener and all he wanted to do is free the world from the Patriots.
😊
pleaaase make a video talking about the fortnite metal gear collab (if you want to)
I would love to but I don't know the first thing about Fortnight 😅 There are a ton of really great content creators that have covered the Snake Fortnight skin already tho! My personal opinion on Snake in Fortnight is I'm glad there are more eyes on Snake and I hope it brings more fans to the MGS franchise
Much like his old man, Solidus was neither good nor evil. He was neither solid nor liquid. He was a Hegelian dialectic synthesis. A broken balance.
I really like how you said this! Very true
"is solidus good or bad" i think solidus is a clone of bb
I hope Sam knows they cloned BB.
😂
He’s the antagonist. But when looking at his morality, he is an anti-villain. He is someone trying to accomplish good, but ultimately is the villain through his evil means of getting said good.
I can def see Solidus as an anti-villain! That suits him well
I don't know if Raising child soldiers makes him a hero but i guess Trying to restore humanities free will over each other kinda gives a Gray area
Except that reasoning is BS. He only wants people to have freedom to remember his existence. He only knows how to exist by spreading chaos, trauma, and death, and that is exactly what will happen if he were to succeed in his plan.
True raising child soldiers isn't a very good person thing to do, but he was a child himself at that point so can we really blame him? Or should we blame his upbringing and the Patriots for sending him to Liberia in the first place? Solidus is def a really great grey area character!
You're comment rules are the mark of the exact kind of weak willed person that has let the world become oh so similar to metal gear.
I'd say he's an antihero. He has just cause, but the means he employs to achieve that are not very ethical.
Very true! I can def see Solidus as an antihero