Does seeing an actual solid state battery like this on the market give you any hope for the future of solid state? Use my link ground.news/undecided to get 40% off the Vantage plan. Access local perspectives to better understand world politics and current events with Ground News. Corrections: 00:05 - I've received some comments that this may not be a true solid state battery, but a semi-solid state battery based on testing from a third party company. I'm currently investigating and will update this video as soon as I have more information. I'm also working with a friend/fellow CZcamsr to do a breakdown of the cell chemistry. If you liked this, check out This Tech FINALLY Makes Robot Lawn Mowers Worth it czcams.com/video/e3F6L-AQOSo/video.html
It gives me hope but just like any battery I'd need to see how they work for the next 20 years to know how they survive in the real world and if they are worth the cost.
There are a thousand makes/models of this form factor battery pack out there, using various battery technologies, comparing them this way, and including the longevity in the calculations will drive customers to their door. If they continue to perform, and don't have silly low recharge rates or limits, then they'll replace the other technology batteries on the market. Even at a high price point, we know there's a market for them, many battery banks run traditional battery technology, and are outrageously expensive, and people still buy them. A few percent higher price isn't going to stop someone who is doing the math. Personally, I have a few of these smaller form factor devices using lead-acid on up, they serve their purpose. My criteria are "will this thing power my emergency equipment overnight, and recharge via solar by day?" Weight, technology, etc are less important, though longevity is. As mine age out, I hope to replace with solid state batteries of various composition. That said, this Yoshino doesn't even show up in Amazon search of "portable power station". I looked through 5 pages and didn't see it. Amazon in the US. If I search for it by name, I see the small one is $199 prime day deal.
Looks like someone did a teardown of this battery and it's not solid state at all. They're standard Li-Ion pouch cells. czcams.com/video/z8sVbwitrB0/video.htmlsi=BPYJ66BZeLSzblMW
Matt, I think you’ve reached the point of this channel, where you should be buying two of these things, one to show off, and the other to do a tear down on. Would have really loved to have seen the actual size of the battery, compared to all the other electronics inside.
@@jamescustodio3094Why would you need to add weight? The unit claims to be lighter than equivalent LFP packs. The big problem for me here is that those specs are all achievable with conventional NMC cells, except for longevity, which obviously wasn't tested here.
As an engineer once said "The last of the old will always be better than the first of the new" but they already made a promising product thats somewhat competitive in the market
Yeah, I think people are a bit spoiled in terms of the instant gratification of new stuff. I'm not looking at this thing like everything is going to change tomorrow, I'm looking at it as another step on the ladder towards progress and for it to be not excessively high priced or completely outgunned by its competitors is an extremely positive step. No, it's not as good or as cheap as lithium cells but it ain't too far off and that's a massive success
@@heathwirt8919 One could also add "The very best of the old is cheaper than the midrange product of the new", but then eventually the "new" will also become the "old".
My definition of "solid state" is comparing regular batteries with chemical reaction (like spinning hard drives) to solid state batteries (like flash memory/SSD). Calling a regular battery solid state is nowhere near a super-cap with unlimited charging cycles and no degradation.
I am disappointed you didn’t bother to check whether it was actually solid state. Other tear downs show Yoshino might be engaging in false advertising which your “review” accidentally abetted. Certainly reduces my faith in you.
I am very surprised honestly. This looks very promising and for batteries for a solar powered home this could be way better for safety reasons (of course we need to see how much safer it really is).
@@noneyabusiness88 I wouldn’t debate them being the future but that has no relation to it supposedly being close to integration in massed produced EV’s. Toyota, like VAG, has been announcing the same thing for more than 8 years now, every time saying they are planning to integrate solid state within 5 years.
@@GBOAC how many solid state power stations were there 8 years ago? Like most things.. it takes time. It's not like they stopped working on it. Considering the potential for them in EV's, I'm ok with it taking longer to get right.
Testing by TechInsights shows this is not using a SS battery through Differential Capacity Analysis, SEM-EDS of the anode and visual inspection. I quote "Upon removing the pouch casing, we found the separator to be wet with liquid electrolyte. The presence of the liquid electrolyte contradicts the definition of solid-state batteries. The quantity of the electrolyte also challenges the concept of hybrid solid-state batteries, especially in the absence of a lithium metal anode."
idk this looks like a big ad. Didnt even do a tear down, ot actually open up a cel to see how its made to see if its actually solid or just another lipo cell
A youtuber with a much higher standard for accuracy apparently (bigtb1717) tore this battery down before making claims about it's authenticity. Turns out it is simply bog-standard lithium ion cells. All of the claims yoshino makes are seemingly untrue. Really disappointing a much bigger channel wouldn't have gone through the effort of validating a manufacturers claim, especially with this being claimed to be a first of its kind product.
What nonsense, no real numbers, no facts, just stupid advertising. Where are the real numbers? Durability, lifespan, just advertising numbers. Who falls for that?
Seems sus that they show an electric coffee maker in their marketing, which takes 1500W, yet their $300 device only supplies 330W. So, nobody will be drinking the sweet sweet warm nectar that is morning coffee.
Shocker, ad run CZcamsr just regurgitates marketing BS and people think he's some sort of actual source of information. He and everyone like him do this because they get paid to do this. Of course he lied to you by way of not verifying a single claim, that's literally his job.
These are lithium ion batteries ...just proven on another channel.... so much for real research! Next time tear them apart and test them... Watch them go on fire when punctured then find out that they have a liquid in them.. If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck its most likely a duck...( and if it is semi solid state whats the sense if it has the same faults as lithium iron) Sorry Matt can't follow your videos with just a cursory check your making on the goods your promoting..
It's not solid state, I've just watched a teardown video on this, it's all lies. Also I didn't appreciate that I essentially sat thru this advertisement video you made about a bogus product. I'm glad I research products before I make purchases. 💩
Ground News is super cool. It's a very important invention for people who aren't normally able to tell the nuances between lies of biased news sources, and more importantly get an idea of who's pushing an overall narrative. Very powerful tool. Super cool stuff, and thank you for taking their sponsor
Well, @UndecidedMF you may want to remove or re-upload this video. Looks like Yoshino is pulling the wool over our eyes and making false claims. Another user bought one of their products and tore it down for inspection and the battery cells are simple pouch cells that certainly combust when pierced. czcams.com/video/z8sVbwitrB0/video.htmlsi=x8LYkSjWP5iM-jfU
I work in the battery industry and I am very certain this is not a solid state battery pack. There's currently no solid state lithium battery cell in mass production right now, anywhere on this world. And the price is going to be much higher - usually about 1.5x liquid electrolyte cells. Given the performance specs and pricing, I am quite convinced that this is a semi-solid cell pack, if that's actually the case. Semi-solid state cells are pricy right now but at least production and performance are stable, and has been like this for about 2 or 3 years. There's rarely a product using them because they are too expensive for this kind of product. Mostly electric motorcycles likes them because they have higher density and are safer. To be honest I don't see a point in using semi-solid (or even fully solid) in home / recreational battery packs now. The density advantages are going to be offset by pack structure, and the cost is just too high.
Love the video, but would have liked to see a few key questions answered such as: how durable is the product and how fast can it charge compared to Lithium? arent those supposed to be key differentiators as well?
I'm straight up unsubscribing. Can't trust this channel. And I'm 100% sure there will be no apologizing video about how many consumers this video mislead into buying such product, although I still hope there will be one. Really sad that you have such a big amount of resources and are just not using to verify something that a guy with less than 10k subs did.
Video just came out from a youtuber who tore down this 'solid-state' battery from Yoshino, and it totally isn't solid-state. At best it is semi-solid state, but it most certainly isn't what is being claimed. How unfortunate :/
This video is so under researched. In fact some dude came out with a video debunking the batteries as Plain old lithium ion. He opened up the battery, looked up the part number and it was the part number for a common lithium battery. I mean you don't need be a rocket scientist to look up a part number.
Just to play devil's advocate for a moment. This channel isn't about breaking down products to see what their components are. There are plenty of other channels that do that. This is for introducing and explaining new products and technology. It's not @UndecidedMF 's fault if the manufacturer makes faulty claims. Life doesn't have to be about trying to tear people down. He's made an updated video and is getting to the bottom of it. What more do you want?
@@MarkGarrett For a channel to shill a "first of its kind" product, he better damn well have the technical knowhow to verify "first of its kind" claims, otherwise he's just an arm of any company's marketing department. What's sadder is he made it clear that they haven't sponsored him and he's shilling for them on his dime. Also his intro of "wake me up when I can buy it on amazon. o yeah? here it is" is one of the biggest foot in mouth situations ever.
@@xungnham1388 Again, he's introducing it, not selling it. And unless you expect him to tear into every product and study how it's made, a certain amount of trust has to be given to the manufacturer of said product. You seem to want to hate just for the sake of it. MT has always been honest and upfront about his reviews and positions. Why not cut him a little slack? Or you could just move along to a different channel.
@@MarkGarrett He's spread misinformation to 1.7M views. For a channel with 1.45M subscribers he needs to be held to a higher standard. Instead his channel is built on sensationalistic clickbait topics with verification and truth low on his priority. I've watched over half of his videos because they keep getting recommended and realized that he's nevered earned my subscribe.
One of the biggest things to consider is that using a plastic outer shell will lighten it, but it would be less durable. Over time, the plastic would become brittle. With a metal shell, you could rust prevetion and likely have it for well over 100 years.
i only have a few questions 1. what is the max charge rate (Volts/Amps/Watts/C-rate) [graph] 2. what is the max discharge rate (Volts/Amps/Watts/C-rate) [graph] 3. ignoring the case and extras how much does the battery core weight 4. How many cycles is it designed for
Don't worry about it friend. This isn't SS. Check out the breakdown of the product from TechInsights. It shows and I quote, "Upon removing the pouch casing, we found the separator to be wet with liquid electrolyte. The presence of the liquid electrolyte contradicts the definition of solid-state batteries. The quantity of the electrolyte also challenges the concept of hybrid solid-state batteries, especially in the absence of a lithium metal anode."
@@myleswillis That was very touching. Me, now near 70yo, remember my grandfather, back in the early 1960's building all sorts of cool gadgets, some so innovative that later, re-invented, received patents! I only fairly recently thought about what a genius he was!
Most important thing that you did not mentioned was that it's NCM cathode solid state battery has 4000 cycle life,if we put that in to perspective regular NCM batteries have 1500 effective cycle life if you compare it with other regular liquid cathodes which have 800(NCA) to 3000(LFP)cycles lifes,liquid NCM stands in the middle in term of longevity but this new solid electrolyte NCM battery out performs even LFPs with its 4000 effective cycle life which is truely fascinating
@@davidfujkk8018 This is the info I was looking for. Also, how long will it hold a charge in storage? I assume there is no outgassing or risk of chemical leaking.
What was the point of this video? It's an analysis of a product based entirely on the manufacturers claim. Is this even a real solid-state battery? Why not tear it down and see for sure if there is no liquid electrolyte? Why are you doing energy density measurements based on the entire product weight and not the weight of the cells themselves? Have you tested to see if the maximum energy capacity listed by the manufacturer is accurate?
That's what you get from Uninformed with Matt Ferrell. I'd bet these are "semi-solid state" that use a gel-like electrolyte. I have a Dabbsson with an identical cycle rating and similar models have nearly identical capacity (e.g. 1330Wh/1326Wh), due to the cell shape. They call them semi-solid state LiFePO4 with nearly identical safety claims, including a nail test. Both are chinese made power stations with some US facility pushing out product. Yoshino hints at "Japanese tech" and the name refers to Nobel Prize winner Akira Yoshino but they aren't a Japanese company in any way. It's all marketing. These might be fine power stations but it's disingenuous behavior. IMO this whole market is getting very sketchy and many companies look like carbon copies of each other. Mine works great but how many will even be around in 10 or even the 5 years they claim to warranty? Many of the LFP cells used can be found for >$10/ea so imagine the mark-up on these and it's no surprise they're popping up up like weeds.
weight is not significant difference to care. I care about charge cycle longevity and charge temperature range especially out camping. The spec lineup was disappointing for solid-state. for this first gen. No doubt soon every vender will have the solid state option. Will drive lithium further down in cost until solid state is advanced like lead acid and lithium is now.
@@autoboto I agree with you. My point was that in the video on my phone, some of those comparisons looked ridiculous... Some of those units looked to be anywhere from 2-3x the size of the one in question. Without specifying if we're comparing total weight or just the cell weight when referencing the Watt Hours to Weight ratio is absolutely nuts
Regarding the alleged semi-solid-state status, would you at least run a capacity test on the battery? One of the conspicuous improvements expected of a solid state cell would be the greatly increased energy density and as it is a readily testable claim, it would be interesting to know what a test of its capacity will reveal
It's not leaps ahead better though. 4000 cycles to 80%, that's little different from LiFePO4 where I have branded batteries that are rated 5000 cycles to 80%, so that lifespan is disappointing as its basically the same as existing technology. What about charge and discharge rates, are they any better? LiFePO4 is already pretty safe and used in most portable power stations these days. Weight is so hard to compare because you have other things like inverters built into these packs, a lot depends on the rating of the inverter, does it including an AC to DC charger in the box and so on. The only thing it possibly excels at is low temperature charging and discharging, but if you don't need that, what extra does it bring?
Because it isn't SS batteries. Check out the breakdown of the product from TechInsights. It shows and I quote, "Upon removing the pouch casing, we found the separator to be wet with liquid electrolyte. The presence of the liquid electrolyte contradicts the definition of solid-state batteries. The quantity of the electrolyte also challenges the concept of hybrid solid-state batteries, especially in the absence of a lithium metal anode."
Poke this "SS" battery cell with a nail and get surprised. Or check the video of someone doing it. Standard Li pouch cell acted as expected - with usual smoke and fireworks you expect from ordinary liquid electrolyte. I'm really disappointed that you got 1.7M view for this video promoting scammy maker of this fake SS battery. But I guess it's business as usual, both for you and for them...
One thing you missed in the comparisons of the Yoshino 330 and the similar options is that it doesn't offer AC input for recharging. It requires a separate AC/DC power supply. This further complicates the weight/wh comparison.
Nice to see a new technology hit the market. As someone that camps in the mountains temp for charge and discharge is pretty important. Those cold night temps at night can limit especially charge ability on LiFePO4.
This isn't a new technology by any stretch. Check out the breakdown of the product from TechInsights. It shows and I quote, "Upon removing the pouch casing, we found the separator to be wet with liquid electrolyte. The presence of the liquid electrolyte contradicts the definition of solid-state batteries. The quantity of the electrolyte also challenges the concept of hybrid solid-state batteries, especially in the absence of a lithium metal anode."
This video seems poorly researched and overly reliant on marketing information at best, and is a thinly veiled advertisement at worst. I typically try to withhold judgement on this sort of thing, but this is pretty egregious. All I see through the entire video is parroting of whatever marketing Yoshino has put out, there is no attempt to independently verify any of the claims. Not only are the claims dubious, you even noticed an obvious flaw but hand-waved it by assuming that the light (which weighs nothing) and the handle somehow make up for the device being too heavy, while just assuming that any of the other data you were looking at (that you didn't attempt to measure yourself) is accurate. You also basically ignored the weight added by any of the special features the other models might offer. Furthermore, in the previous video you talked about some of the companies leading the solid state game, but this Yoshino just comes out of nowhere and has a product available on Amazon already? Before those companies managed to get into consumer products? And Yoshino isn't using cells from those companies? This all doesn't really add up, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Worse still, you leaned into the idea of "you can have this delivered to your door in a day or two" and went over every aspect of the marketing for the product. This doesn't just sound like bad research, parroting a press release, this sounds like the deliberate wording one uses when one wants to induce someone to buy something. The fact that this video was posted today, Prime Day, while Amazon is running a significant sale on this product feels quite suspicious. Now, benefit of the doubt... maybe Yoshino pulled the wool over your eyes. Made a convincing pitch, you didn't think to verify claims, it was easy to just use their marketing materials to put together the video. Maybe they suggested you release the video today, and you didn't know there was some plan behind that. That sort of thing can happen. But man... if that's the case, you need to do better. And if not? Well, then it calls into question basically every other video on the channel.
My motorhome has 660 ah batteries supplying power via 3kw inverter for induction cooking and all other appliances. It's going to be a long time before SSB come up to the ruggedness, service life and reliability of Li-Ion. Still the R&D continues. Great report.
Matt, have you done any kind of testing to confirm these are actually using solid state cells? Just eyeballing the specs it seems to me that all of the most immediately testable properties of these devices (weight, capacity, power in/out) could all be achieved with conventional NMC lithium ion cells, at the cost of much shorter service life and theoretically increased safety concerns compared to their LFP competitors
At 5:00 they plug something in, and 1 second later they show pouring coffee. With 330 watts per outlet you're going to be heating this much (about half a liter, low estimated) water for about 10 minutes before it boils. So I found the 1 second cook time in the ad very misleading.
We have been using a Yoshino B2000 for around a year now. We use it as electricity backup for medical equipment in our home. Everything has been just fine for us so far.
@@SilvaDreams You really need to compare it to an 18650 Li-ion. Thats the state of the art cell and they are used everywhere. And you are probably right. There are some really impressive 18650s, and the solid-state cells probably come at a high price
@Richi_Boi True but using a general battery as a refernce since more people know what those look like (but a 18650 is no different build wise it's just the makeup)
I've been using my EcoFlow Delta Pro for almost 3 years. (Early-bird kickstarter). I love it. We boondock A LOT with it. When I'm boondocking, it's in the RV. When at home, we use it 24/7. So moving it back and forth from the RV is a challenge. The Yoshino being half the weight has me SUPER intrigued.
@@EnderViBrittania - I spent the money to have these systems for Boondocking and in case of emergency. So I want to recoup SOME of my investment. My son runs a window AC in his room because he likes it cold. He runs it off one DP+EB. I use the other one to run my entertainment systems and my washing machine.
I live in an area where lights have gone off, which is an annoying hassle to grumble about, but last winter, power went off for four days. We were socked in by snow, sleet and finally freezing rain. The second morning it was 17F in the living room. At that moment, i swore that we were going to have something more than the electric company to choose from. It doesn't take any nudging to get liquid gas to fire the heat, hot water and a gas cooktop that I have sorely missed over the decades here outside of Portland, Oregon. The technology in LED light sources has really given us wonderful options, and understanding how MANY AC/DC transformers litter our house reminds me and others of how silly we have allowed our electrical systems nationwide dependent on one source for power. I doubt that will be the position as municipalities sizzle and pop straining infrastructure that was not tended to before it became an emergency. Where we have our place, we are dependent on wires strung on telephone poles to our power junction. Until recently, I never gave this much thought. However, I've been at a standstill trying to find power for the electrical components. Switching the propane option is helpful, but it would then put us in the position of not having another power source should propane is not available. I'm still at the mumbling, reading and pulling on my beard stage, staring mostly at clouds. Solar panel installers and the state of Oregon swear it is a great option. Both claim they have money laying around as incentives to make the jump. I'm 65 and having an absolute ball with both technology and almost a fluid growth in things I had never considered in my life. It's most definitely not the Jetsons, a spoof on the future of suburban-minded people--no comedy writer in the 1960s had THAT much of an imagination to capture our world in their timeline...if that made much sense. I find that in our present, the sense of doom as much as paradise takes my breath away, excites me, and pumps adrenalin. Life seems to be much of what Michael Crichton, the author pondered. I miss him and his pen, anbd wonder where he could take a story now.
Hey bro', as soon as I started reading your post it reminded me of what I've dealt with for years, then when you said, "outside Portland, Oregon" that explained it... Yeah, in the foothills of the Cascades, out in the woods, that's where I'm at too. You're right, the power grid here is absolutely unreliable, I lose power every year, sometimes multiple times per year, and sometimes because of the most minor and lame causes because it's so ridiculously vulnerable... A falling branch, imagine that in the woods. What's worse is that there are fewer reliable sources because they've (fools) have been removing local hydro generators on rivers that were excellent for many years and could have been upgraded/restored, they tore out the Trojan Nuclear plant that was perfect for an upgrade to new tech. So the power rates continue to rise and the product gets worse, with no plans to improve it anytime soon. But to some people, other people are a complete afterthought and usually a nuisance, rather than fellow humans. The solution is to find a good idea for individual, independent power, not solar crap connected to the grid, because that creates other issues and doesn't relieve your dependence. I have gas and diesel generators and all that, but that's not a solution for any duration... I'm working on it too. Oh, one thing I would highly recommend is a simple woodstove for backup heat, you should never be exposed to that kind of cold inside your home, it's UnAmerican to allow it! LOL (not funny, I know) I have lots of wood for sure, and I could show you how to get it cheap or free. I'm hoping that the fear of banning wood heat has passed, and if not we have politicians to remove still.
Personally for me I’d look at a propane generator for backup. Maybe to run led lights, we’ll, refrigerator, and the blower for the heat. Then maybe get a small solar setup to charge another separate backup system. Do you heat with wood? That saves me a bundle.
The fact the first gen product is actually able to compete and not just a tech demo is very promising, hope it continues to improve so we can all have safer and lighter batteries
It is not just supposed to compete, it is supposed to be better than another product it is trying to replace. The fact is they have known solid states would cost more, but with that would come like double the cycle life. As in theory they are not supposed to build up dendrites which reduces the SoC. Except reality has been different. Instead now we have a product that costs more, but does not really last any longer. The first gen is a complete flop and does not provide some of the main points or pro's it was supposed to in order to replace liquid lithiums. UNTIL that is the case, it won't either. It will be promising, when they can show little dendrite build up.
@@kevinfisher1345 You make a lot of claims, and just like those who have proven to be wrong so often over the past 4 years, you have no source citations to support your claims. Besides, since when have first gens ever lived up to the hype of marketers who are trained to tell lies?
@@kevinfisher1345 The Yoshino is 4x as expensive and the same weight of the average LIPO4 products like the EG4 LifePower4 Rack Mount Lithium Battery. This VOD is hype not facts. Anyone can pretend anything, we don't need hype.
@@scotttovey There has been ton of hype about solid state replacing lithium liquid batteries. Any ignorant person should know this, that has been aware of the media. But sure you want some cites, just for you mate since you apparently are ignorant of what has been going on. Google search "solid state batteries replace lithium" shows a ton of results (I did not even need to type it all as it auto filled). From Popular Mechanic article _'Solid-State Batteries Are Here and They're Going to Change How We Live'_ with a quote "The lithium-ion battery that Solid Power hopes to make *obsolete* is already a modern marvel that earned its key researchers a Nobel Prize. Or from PC Mag article titled _'This EV Battery Tech Could Make Lithium-Ion Obsolete'_ Through out history, it is a well known fact that in order for a new product to replace an older product, it must be not only just as good as, but better than the previous product it is trying to replace. So what are some of the claims about solid state and why it will replace? Harvard Gazette quotes Professor Xin Li “A lithium-metal battery is considered the holy grail for battery chemistry because of its high capacity and energy density,” and goes on to say "Li and his team have designed a stable, lithium-metal, solid-state battery that can be charged and discharged at least 10,000 times - far more cycles than have been previously demonstrated - at a high current density." That is more than double what lithium phosphate cycle span is. The reason is due to a couple of things. Again as per Harvard Gazette "lithium-metal batteries, which hold substantially more energy in the same volume and charge in a fraction of the time compared to traditional lithium-ion batteries." So they potentially have higher density. Also are supposed to charge faster. And this is in part due to dendrite build up, or lack of it in theory and are supposed to be more stable. Again as quoted by Li from Harvard in cite above "This multilayer, multimaterial battery prevents the penetration of lithium dendrites not by stopping them altogether but rather by controlling and containing them." Or from the Popular Mechanic cite above "Scientists eventually landed on a solution that prevented the growth of dendrites and eliminated the risk of fire: a solid electrolyte-often made of a ceramic similar to a semiconductor-that replaced the flammable liquid electrolyte and physically blocked the growth of dendrites." And also Li from Harvard goes on to say "With its high current density, the battery could pave the way for electric vehicles that can fully charge within 10 to 20 minutes." And also from PC Mag cite above "they [solid-state lithium] promise ultra-fast charging and nearly 1,000-mile range, according to Toyota" As to cost. Per CNN article _'Solid state batteries promise to radically change EVs.'_ is "Solid-state batteries will tend to be more expensive because they contain more lithium, which is expensive, said Kephart." Conclusion. Solid state are supposed to be more stable, charge faster, have higher density and much longer cycle life. All at a higher initial cost (due to more lithium, new tech, etc), but should recoup with the longer life span and higher density. This battery per even the OP is just competing and not a major improvement. It has not accomplished any of the claimed hype except maybe being more stable. The other pro is solid state are supposedly lighter, which we do not know for sure if that is the case with this battery or not since cells were not actually weighed here. So that is another it might have accomplished. But I did not bring up weight before, so find someone else to cite that. The talking points I brought up, it is a complete flop and does not accomplish many of the points it was supposed to in order to replace just as I stated. Now are you happy I cited these for you instead of you doing your own research? And have had to make me type a mini novel just to appease you and laziness? When has any first gen product ever lived up to its hype? Easy, plastics for one. Computers for another which replaced manual / analog maths as just one example of first gen computer's living up to its hype. And for the third strike, fiber optics.
@@scotttovey I am still waiting to be proven wrong mate. I noticed you have nothing but some baseless accusations and provided nothing yourself. It must be easy to go around claiming someone is wrong without making a single claim yourself. Meanwhile I have been calling out BS for over 2 decades online now. And backing it up. Because I respond about things that I definitely know about.
@@UndecidedMF why aren't you ever critical of manufacturers' claims? Your videos are always espousing some new thing and "it'll change everything!" but it's the same shit we've been hearing from pop science "news" for years.
@@int3254 What does this have to do with George's comment about ebikes? You're just gonna hijack a comment thread so you can yell at the video author? Make your own thread.
This isn't using SS battery. Check out the breakdown of the product from TechInsights. It shows and I quote, "Upon removing the pouch casing, we found the separator to be wet with liquid electrolyte. The presence of the liquid electrolyte contradicts the definition of solid-state batteries. The quantity of the electrolyte also challenges the concept of hybrid solid-state batteries, especially in the absence of a lithium metal anode."
It seems to me that the information in this video is entirely based on the manufacturers claims. What we need to see is a full strip down plus hard testing. We need to know the component quality, the build quality and whether or not those charge cycles and performance figures really stand up.
But that's on par with his other videos. I rarely watch them anymore because they just feel like repackaged sales pitches. It's all hyping up specific products with some subliminal fossil-industry FUD, like how he talked about the "dangers" of LiIon multiple times in this one. PS: To make clear why I call it FUD, just think about how many LiIon batteries every one of us has around nowadays. From cell phones to power tools, night lights to loudspeakers, those are everywhere. Yet, the rate of fires caused by electric appliances is still going down, not up. The same is true for EVs, where there are so few fires that statistics vary from 6x to 100x less risk of fire than combustion-engine-driven vehicles.
Because this isn't Project Farm, he didn't actually buy any of the other batteries. Which essentially negates the entire point of the comparison, the stupid light isn't what's making it weigh so much more, and I don't think the handle is to blame either. Pretty sure it's just not actually solid state in the first place. But since he didn't buy two of them, didn't buy the other brands, didn't open them up, and didn't do... any due diligence at all, we learn nothing from this video.
So I'd like to now see this battery tested in hot weather conditions, like can I just leave this in my car and not worry it's going to lose much charge either?
The 4th gen Toyota Tacoma's have a JBL portable speaker with solid state battery that pops into the dash. I was surprised they'd trust any battery in a location that gets so hot, but feel they wouldn't risk such liability if they weren't confident it could handle the heat.
It's not a new battery. Check out the breakdown of the product from TechInsights. It shows and I quote, "Upon removing the pouch casing, we found the separator to be wet with liquid electrolyte. The presence of the liquid electrolyte contradicts the definition of solid-state batteries. The quantity of the electrolyte also challenges the concept of hybrid solid-state batteries, especially in the absence of a lithium metal anode."
pressing x to doubt that is actually using solid state cells most power stations like those use traditional lithium blends(the most common for systems like that is LiFePO4 due to high cycle life, perfect matching of 12v Lead-acid voltage range, and chemical stability in non-ideal environments) but this is only after 2:30 so maybe you will tear it down and find real solid state cells, but I doubt it
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 and that is the fundamental problem with "tech news"| you can't trust claims, only verifiable data matters are they actually using SSC's? or are they lying about it? until those questions are answered by third-parties(exactly like how science works to delete bad data) I will assume it is common lithium cells in an established form factor
Anyone else sceptical this is actually Solid-state? No teardown, no better specs than normal Li-ion. Plus solid state is supposed to be way way more expensive.
Does seeing an actual solid state battery like this on the market give you any hope for the future of solid state? Use my link ground.news/undecided to get 40% off the Vantage plan. Access local perspectives to better understand world politics and current events with Ground News.
Corrections:
00:05 - I've received some comments that this may not be a true solid state battery, but a semi-solid state battery based on testing from a third party company. I'm currently investigating and will update this video as soon as I have more information. I'm also working with a friend/fellow CZcamsr to do a breakdown of the cell chemistry.
If you liked this, check out This Tech FINALLY Makes Robot Lawn Mowers Worth it czcams.com/video/e3F6L-AQOSo/video.html
Absolutely it does! This could be a game changer, an actual consumer-ready solid state battery wasn't on my 2024 bingo sheet. Exciting times!
This unit is now $199.99 if you have Prime, you know where! Peace!
It gives me hope but just like any battery I'd need to see how they work for the next 20 years to know how they survive in the real world and if they are worth the cost.
Yes! Thanks to you for making me aware!
There are a thousand makes/models of this form factor battery pack out there, using various battery technologies, comparing them this way, and including the longevity in the calculations will drive customers to their door. If they continue to perform, and don't have silly low recharge rates or limits, then they'll replace the other technology batteries on the market. Even at a high price point, we know there's a market for them, many battery banks run traditional battery technology, and are outrageously expensive, and people still buy them. A few percent higher price isn't going to stop someone who is doing the math.
Personally, I have a few of these smaller form factor devices using lead-acid on up, they serve their purpose. My criteria are "will this thing power my emergency equipment overnight, and recharge via solar by day?" Weight, technology, etc are less important, though longevity is. As mine age out, I hope to replace with solid state batteries of various composition.
That said, this Yoshino doesn't even show up in Amazon search of "portable power station". I looked through 5 pages and didn't see it. Amazon in the US. If I search for it by name, I see the small one is $199 prime day deal.
I saw a teardown video, they're fake and just use standard lithium ion pouch cells
@@DoctorBruKhar link?
Same. Shame on this OP for doing this vid and not tearing it apart. All he had to do was read the labels on the pouches.
Looks like someone did a teardown of this battery and it's not solid state at all. They're standard Li-Ion pouch cells. czcams.com/video/z8sVbwitrB0/video.htmlsi=BPYJ66BZeLSzblMW
@@celeritas5k Yes, it was a mistake to assume the manufacturer or whomever did the marketing was honest. A teardown is really required.
I came back to this video to commend the same thing!
I'm a few weeks late, but it's no longer available on Amazon
Take it apart dude ITS STANDARD LITHIUM PACKS.
This is clearly a sales channel not a science info channel.
Love that you still left this original video accessible. Really appreciate it and good job on the correction.
Matt, I think you’ve reached the point of this channel, where you should be buying two of these things, one to show off, and the other to do a tear down on. Would have really loved to have seen the actual size of the battery, compared to all the other electronics inside.
@@vantongerent it would be funny if he disassembled it and it's just basic Lithium Cells with added weight.
"through the magic of buying two of them..."
- Alec, TC
@@jamescustodio3094Why would you need to add weight? The unit claims to be lighter than equivalent LFP packs. The big problem for me here is that those specs are all achievable with conventional NMC cells, except for longevity, which obviously wasn't tested here.
What do you think this is, technology connections?
yes yes yes and more yes. don't turn it on take it apart.
As an engineer once said "The last of the old will always be better than the first of the new" but they already made a promising product thats somewhat competitive in the market
Yeah, I think people are a bit spoiled in terms of the instant gratification of new stuff. I'm not looking at this thing like everything is going to change tomorrow, I'm looking at it as another step on the ladder towards progress and for it to be not excessively high priced or completely outgunned by its competitors is an extremely positive step. No, it's not as good or as cheap as lithium cells but it ain't too far off and that's a massive success
A more accurate statemen is the very best of the old is better than the midrange product of the new but usually not for long.
@@nom_chompsky This also applied to say guns vs bows for example. Early guns were... bluntly speaking, not great.
@@heathwirt8919 One could also add "The very best of the old is cheaper than the midrange product of the new", but then eventually the "new" will also become the "old".
My definition of "solid state" is comparing regular batteries with chemical reaction (like spinning hard drives) to solid state batteries (like flash memory/SSD). Calling a regular battery solid state is nowhere near a super-cap with unlimited charging cycles and no degradation.
I am disappointed you didn’t bother to check whether it was actually solid state. Other tear downs show Yoshino might be engaging in false advertising which your “review” accidentally abetted. Certainly reduces my faith in you.
For a first gen product to be even this close to lithium batteries that have been around and refined for decades now is really something.
@@jackhemsworth7515 it probably is just semi solidstate, so half a gen improved
I am very surprised honestly. This looks very promising and for batteries for a solar powered home this could be way better for safety reasons (of course we need to see how much safer it really is).
@@GBOAC Volkswagen has been working hard at a solid state battery for an EV. Solid state and diamond batteries are the future.
@@noneyabusiness88 I wouldn’t debate them being the future but that has no relation to it supposedly being close to integration in massed produced EV’s. Toyota, like VAG, has been announcing the same thing for more than 8 years now, every time saying they are planning to integrate solid state within 5 years.
@@GBOAC how many solid state power stations were there 8 years ago? Like most things.. it takes time. It's not like they stopped working on it. Considering the potential for them in EV's, I'm ok with it taking longer to get right.
Dude this is a scam.. how long did you use yours before you use this.
Testing by TechInsights shows this is not using a SS battery through Differential Capacity Analysis, SEM-EDS of the anode and visual inspection.
I quote
"Upon removing the pouch casing, we found the separator to be wet with liquid electrolyte.
The presence of the liquid electrolyte contradicts the definition of solid-state batteries. The
quantity of the electrolyte also challenges the concept of hybrid solid-state batteries,
especially in the absence of a lithium metal anode."
This is an advert
idk this looks like a big ad. Didnt even do a tear down, ot actually open up a cel to see how its made to see if its actually solid or just another lipo cell
A youtuber with a much higher standard for accuracy apparently (bigtb1717) tore this battery down before making claims about it's authenticity. Turns out it is simply bog-standard lithium ion cells. All of the claims yoshino makes are seemingly untrue. Really disappointing a much bigger channel wouldn't have gone through the effort of validating a manufacturers claim, especially with this being claimed to be a first of its kind product.
What nonsense, no real numbers, no facts, just stupid advertising. Where are the real numbers? Durability, lifespan, just advertising numbers. Who falls for that?
Seems sus that they show an electric coffee maker in their marketing, which takes 1500W, yet their $300 device only supplies 330W. So, nobody will be drinking the sweet sweet warm nectar that is morning coffee.
Yo dude, somebody just did a teardown of these batteries, they’re fake. Li-ion.
@@alexs36zero Li-ion cells don’t come in pouches.
Shocker, ad run CZcamsr just regurgitates marketing BS and people think he's some sort of actual source of information. He and everyone like him do this because they get paid to do this. Of course he lied to you by way of not verifying a single claim, that's literally his job.
damn, that was really unscientific comparison
Wooops... Yoshino is a lie... Might have checked the inside...
I am really digging that wood decor.
These are lithium ion batteries ...just proven on another channel.... so much for real research!
Next time tear them apart and test them...
Watch them go on fire when punctured then find out that they have a liquid in them..
If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck its most likely a duck...( and if it is semi solid state whats the sense if it has the same faults as lithium iron)
Sorry Matt can't follow your videos with just a cursory check your making on the goods your promoting..
these are not solid state battery's and you should update your info that these yoshino power supplies are scamming
Man, the translated audio in Matts own voice is just mind blowing
It's not solid state, I've just watched a teardown video on this, it's all lies. Also I didn't appreciate that I essentially sat thru this advertisement video you made about a bogus product. I'm glad I research products before I make purchases. 💩
so it turns out these are fake and you didn't even bother with some proper research, you just always read landing pages at face value? unsub
Wierd Yoshino ad.
Ground News is super cool. It's a very important invention for people who aren't normally able to tell the nuances between lies of biased news sources, and more importantly get an idea of who's pushing an overall narrative. Very powerful tool. Super cool stuff, and thank you for taking their sponsor
I want to see a load test and compare how long each one lasts
Well, @UndecidedMF you may want to remove or re-upload this video. Looks like Yoshino is pulling the wool over our eyes and making false claims.
Another user bought one of their products and tore it down for inspection and the battery cells are simple pouch cells that certainly combust when pierced.
czcams.com/video/z8sVbwitrB0/video.htmlsi=x8LYkSjWP5iM-jfU
I think you need to either retract this video, or offer a follow-up. These are just using standard lithium ion pouch cells.
I work in the battery industry and I am very certain this is not a solid state battery pack. There's currently no solid state lithium battery cell in mass production right now, anywhere on this world. And the price is going to be much higher - usually about 1.5x liquid electrolyte cells. Given the performance specs and pricing, I am quite convinced that this is a semi-solid cell pack, if that's actually the case.
Semi-solid state cells are pricy right now but at least production and performance are stable, and has been like this for about 2 or 3 years. There's rarely a product using them because they are too expensive for this kind of product. Mostly electric motorcycles likes them because they have higher density and are safer.
To be honest I don't see a point in using semi-solid (or even fully solid) in home / recreational battery packs now. The density advantages are going to be offset by pack structure, and the cost is just too high.
Love the video, but would have liked to see a few key questions answered such as: how durable is the product and how fast can it charge compared to Lithium?
arent those supposed to be key differentiators as well?
So it turns out that these are in fact NOT solid state batteries, but a blatant lie: czcams.com/video/z8sVbwitrB0/video.html
I watched this video like a minute ago, then came here to see the comment section😅
It's not a solid state battery they lie.
7:35 As production ramps up it will be less expensive 😊
2:47 his daughters reaction is hilarious!
I'm straight up unsubscribing. Can't trust this channel. And I'm 100% sure there will be no apologizing video about how many consumers this video mislead into buying such product, although I still hope there will be one. Really sad that you have such a big amount of resources and are just not using to verify something that a guy with less than 10k subs did.
"It's a bit of a charged topic" he says, with a straight face. This man is a dad. I guarantee it
@@MarioGoatse Sparked quite a reaction...
I came to the comment section for this comment, was not disappointed 😂
Beat me to it😂
He'll "amp up" his clarity next time…
I was like "you sly dog, you think I didn't see what you did there?"
Thats BRILLIANT !!!!!!! I did not even know, there were tube based batteries before.
Exceptionally well done and the graphics and the summary at the end are spot on. Thank you.
Video just came out from a youtuber who tore down this 'solid-state' battery from Yoshino, and it totally isn't solid-state. At best it is semi-solid state, but it most certainly isn't what is being claimed. How unfortunate :/
This video is so under researched. In fact some dude came out with a video debunking the batteries as Plain old lithium ion. He opened up the battery, looked up the part number and it was the part number for a common lithium battery. I mean you don't need be a rocket scientist to look up a part number.
Just to play devil's advocate for a moment. This channel isn't about breaking down products to see what their components are. There are plenty of other channels that do that. This is for introducing and explaining new products and technology. It's not @UndecidedMF 's fault if the manufacturer makes faulty claims. Life doesn't have to be about trying to tear people down. He's made an updated video and is getting to the bottom of it. What more do you want?
@@MarkGarrett For a channel to shill a "first of its kind" product, he better damn well have the technical knowhow to verify "first of its kind" claims, otherwise he's just an arm of any company's marketing department. What's sadder is he made it clear that they haven't sponsored him and he's shilling for them on his dime. Also his intro of "wake me up when I can buy it on amazon. o yeah? here it is" is one of the biggest foot in mouth situations ever.
@@xungnham1388 Again, he's introducing it, not selling it. And unless you expect him to tear into every product and study how it's made, a certain amount of trust has to be given to the manufacturer of said product. You seem to want to hate just for the sake of it. MT has always been honest and upfront about his reviews and positions. Why not cut him a little slack? Or you could just move along to a different channel.
@@MarkGarrett He's spread misinformation to 1.7M views. For a channel with 1.45M subscribers he needs to be held to a higher standard. Instead his channel is built on sensationalistic clickbait topics with verification and truth low on his priority. I've watched over half of his videos because they keep getting recommended and realized that he's nevered earned my subscribe.
One of the biggest things to consider is that using a plastic outer shell will lighten it, but it would be less durable. Over time, the plastic would become brittle. With a metal shell, you could rust prevetion and likely have it for well over 100 years.
Anyone else notice a gas powered chainsaw used at 2:40? Love your Channel, Matt, just thought it was funny.
i only have a few questions
1. what is the max charge rate (Volts/Amps/Watts/C-rate) [graph]
2. what is the max discharge rate (Volts/Amps/Watts/C-rate) [graph]
3. ignoring the case and extras how much does the battery core weight
4. How many cycles is it designed for
Exactly!! I want to know the charging voltage, I want to know the minimum voltage, I wanted to know the nominal voltage
Don't worry about it friend. This isn't SS.
Check out the breakdown of the product from TechInsights. It shows and I quote,
"Upon removing the pouch casing, we found the separator to be wet with liquid electrolyte.
The presence of the liquid electrolyte contradicts the definition of solid-state batteries. The
quantity of the electrolyte also challenges the concept of hybrid solid-state batteries,
especially in the absence of a lithium metal anode."
I LOVE that at 2:45 in the Yoshino video the teenage daughter gives zero fucks that Dad got the TV working.
Had to watch segment again. Yep, LOL, she's like, dad, you are sooo anal about watching TV!
Lol, I thought that was hilarious too, though I'm pretty sure she is going to care when it's time to charge her phone!
Only after he's gone will she remember how amazing he was at fixing stuff.
@@Casper042 considering the insane placement of that TV, I’m with her on that one.
@@myleswillis That was very touching. Me, now near 70yo, remember my grandfather, back in the early 1960's building all sorts of cool gadgets, some so innovative that later, re-invented, received patents! I only fairly recently thought about what a genius he was!
So Wise , Thank You . A good start, I hope they work
10:17 could have mentioned the maximum cycle capabilities
I love the 2:49 stock footage where the dad is happy the TV is on but daughter couldn't care less.
"Power the damn wifi-router instead of that stupid TV"
Most important thing that you did not mentioned was that it's NCM cathode solid state battery has 4000 cycle life,if we put that in to perspective regular NCM batteries have 1500 effective cycle life if you compare it with other regular liquid cathodes which have 800(NCA) to 3000(LFP)cycles lifes,liquid NCM stands in the middle in term of longevity but this new solid electrolyte NCM battery out performs even LFPs with its 4000 effective cycle life which is truely fascinating
@@davidfujkk8018 Oops, it appears that you wanted to limit visibility by replying to an off topic comment?
@@davidfujkk8018 make your comment a first-level one. Just copy it.
@@davidfujkk8018 This is the info I was looking for. Also, how long will it hold a charge in storage? I assume there is no outgassing or risk of chemical leaking.
What was the point of this video? It's an analysis of a product based entirely on the manufacturers claim. Is this even a real solid-state battery? Why not tear it down and see for sure if there is no liquid electrolyte? Why are you doing energy density measurements based on the entire product weight and not the weight of the cells themselves? Have you tested to see if the maximum energy capacity listed by the manufacturer is accurate?
That's what you get from Uninformed with Matt Ferrell. I'd bet these are "semi-solid state" that use a gel-like electrolyte. I have a Dabbsson with an identical cycle rating and similar models have nearly identical capacity (e.g. 1330Wh/1326Wh), due to the cell shape. They call them semi-solid state LiFePO4 with nearly identical safety claims, including a nail test.
Both are chinese made power stations with some US facility pushing out product. Yoshino hints at "Japanese tech" and the name refers to Nobel Prize winner Akira Yoshino but they aren't a Japanese company in any way. It's all marketing.
These might be fine power stations but it's disingenuous behavior. IMO this whole market is getting very sketchy and many companies look like carbon copies of each other. Mine works great but how many will even be around in 10 or even the 5 years they claim to warranty? Many of the LFP cells used can be found for >$10/ea so imagine the mark-up on these and it's no surprise they're popping up up like weeds.
@@joshuayonathan5373 I think the same
@@joshuayonathan5373 That's all I could think about while watching... Especially when comparing the Watt Hour to Weight ratio, very disingenuous.
weight is not significant difference to care. I care about charge cycle longevity and charge temperature range especially out camping. The spec lineup was disappointing for solid-state. for this first gen. No doubt soon every vender will have the solid state option. Will drive lithium further down in cost until solid state is advanced like lead acid and lithium is now.
@@autoboto I agree with you. My point was that in the video on my phone, some of those comparisons looked ridiculous... Some of those units looked to be anywhere from 2-3x the size of the one in question. Without specifying if we're comparing total weight or just the cell weight when referencing the Watt Hours to Weight ratio is absolutely nuts
Regarding the alleged semi-solid-state status, would you at least run a capacity test on the battery? One of the conspicuous improvements expected of a solid state cell would be the greatly increased energy density and as it is a readily testable claim, it would be interesting to know what a test of its capacity will reveal
Thank you
It's not leaps ahead better though. 4000 cycles to 80%, that's little different from LiFePO4 where I have branded batteries that are rated 5000 cycles to 80%, so that lifespan is disappointing as its basically the same as existing technology. What about charge and discharge rates, are they any better? LiFePO4 is already pretty safe and used in most portable power stations these days. Weight is so hard to compare because you have other things like inverters built into these packs, a lot depends on the rating of the inverter, does it including an AC to DC charger in the box and so on. The only thing it possibly excels at is low temperature charging and discharging, but if you don't need that, what extra does it bring?
Because it isn't SS batteries.
Check out the breakdown of the product from TechInsights. It shows and I quote,
"Upon removing the pouch casing, we found the separator to be wet with liquid electrolyte.
The presence of the liquid electrolyte contradicts the definition of solid-state batteries. The
quantity of the electrolyte also challenges the concept of hybrid solid-state batteries,
especially in the absence of a lithium metal anode."
Poke this "SS" battery cell with a nail and get surprised. Or check the video of someone doing it. Standard Li pouch cell acted as expected - with usual smoke and fireworks you expect from ordinary liquid electrolyte.
I'm really disappointed that you got 1.7M view for this video promoting scammy maker of this fake SS battery. But I guess it's business as usual, both for you and for them...
I absolutely love that retro look.
Very cool. Can't wait for these to come to BEVs!
One thing you missed in the comparisons of the Yoshino 330 and the similar options is that it doesn't offer AC input for recharging. It requires a separate AC/DC power supply. This further complicates the weight/wh comparison.
"It's bit of a charged topic"...oh nice one sir.
it seems matt is making his shows a "catch that pun" game. i enjoy these.
“It’s definitely a positive change”
Almost directly followed by, "I'll amp up my clarity".
The whole idea has potential...
@@RD-km4yi Ouch.
Really Enjoyed this, very informative, thank you.
Thank you!
Nice to see a new technology hit the market. As someone that camps in the mountains temp for charge and discharge is pretty important. Those cold night temps at night can limit especially charge ability on LiFePO4.
This isn't a new technology by any stretch.
Check out the breakdown of the product from TechInsights. It shows and I quote,
"Upon removing the pouch casing, we found the separator to be wet with liquid electrolyte.
The presence of the liquid electrolyte contradicts the definition of solid-state batteries. The
quantity of the electrolyte also challenges the concept of hybrid solid-state batteries,
especially in the absence of a lithium metal anode."
TL;DW - scammy video promoting fake solid state battery product.
For a first gen product, that thing is gorgeous!
Very nice comparison. Thank you.
Unsubscribed you. These are not Solid state batteries.
This video seems poorly researched and overly reliant on marketing information at best, and is a thinly veiled advertisement at worst. I typically try to withhold judgement on this sort of thing, but this is pretty egregious. All I see through the entire video is parroting of whatever marketing Yoshino has put out, there is no attempt to independently verify any of the claims. Not only are the claims dubious, you even noticed an obvious flaw but hand-waved it by assuming that the light (which weighs nothing) and the handle somehow make up for the device being too heavy, while just assuming that any of the other data you were looking at (that you didn't attempt to measure yourself) is accurate. You also basically ignored the weight added by any of the special features the other models might offer. Furthermore, in the previous video you talked about some of the companies leading the solid state game, but this Yoshino just comes out of nowhere and has a product available on Amazon already? Before those companies managed to get into consumer products? And Yoshino isn't using cells from those companies? This all doesn't really add up, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Worse still, you leaned into the idea of "you can have this delivered to your door in a day or two" and went over every aspect of the marketing for the product. This doesn't just sound like bad research, parroting a press release, this sounds like the deliberate wording one uses when one wants to induce someone to buy something. The fact that this video was posted today, Prime Day, while Amazon is running a significant sale on this product feels quite suspicious.
Now, benefit of the doubt... maybe Yoshino pulled the wool over your eyes. Made a convincing pitch, you didn't think to verify claims, it was easy to just use their marketing materials to put together the video. Maybe they suggested you release the video today, and you didn't know there was some plan behind that. That sort of thing can happen. But man... if that's the case, you need to do better. And if not? Well, then it calls into question basically every other video on the channel.
Also, will prowse will be the one to watch to see a tear down. Dudes knowledge is immense.
My motorhome has 660 ah batteries supplying power via 3kw inverter for induction cooking and all other appliances. It's going to be a long time before SSB come up to the ruggedness, service life and reliability of Li-Ion. Still the R&D continues. Great report.
Matt, have you done any kind of testing to confirm these are actually using solid state cells? Just eyeballing the specs it seems to me that all of the most immediately testable properties of these devices (weight, capacity, power in/out) could all be achieved with conventional NMC lithium ion cells, at the cost of much shorter service life and theoretically increased safety concerns compared to their LFP competitors
They're not ACTUAL solid-state I think, but I do believe they are SEMI-solid state.
When this company first released these batteriesa year ago, only the highest end model was solid state.
@@NuniaBiznaz They're not lithium-ion, but they're not semi-solid-state either. Traditional liquid electrolyte, traditional cell construction.
He'd never do a tear down on it. He's a good little shill.
Tesla is dry coating some electrodes now - but it is a very challenging production process as it breaks apart half the time.
Did you even bother to open the unit? Tony on his channel did, and a review and they are just LYING chinese using Li-ion batteries.
His name to search is bigtb1717 to see why it is false.
Great work. Plain talk. ❤
At 5:00 they plug something in, and 1 second later they show pouring coffee. With 330 watts per outlet you're going to be heating this much (about half a liter, low estimated) water for about 10 minutes before it boils. So I found the 1 second cook time in the ad very misleading.
We have been using a Yoshino B2000 for around a year now. We use it as electricity backup for medical equipment in our home. Everything has been just fine for us so far.
Incredible to hear on new technology
Survivor bias? 😂
@@thomas316 I don't understand your comment. Please explain.
It’s not solid state, it’s a standard lipo battery inside
I'll wait until JerryRigEverything has stripped it apart to verify that it is authentic. 😂
Yeah everything this guy shows off is a scam
Spoiler: it's not authentic, teardowns confirm liquid electrolyte. There's nothing solid-state about them at all.
@@guspaz Wait then how did it passed the USA Lab's test?
@@IstyManame I assume they were testing general things (safety-related) and not specifically validating the solid-state claims.
Source?@@guspaz
If this is about Power Stations also check out how fast UPS mode is. Captain 1200 and AllPowers 300 (small one) have under 10-ms.
Take a commercial and stick two commercials in it. Bravo.
Can we have some hard data on the cell? Somthing like a datasheet. Min voltage, max voltage, mAh, weight ect.
Nope because then we'd actually see it's no different than a slightly upgraded AA battery and not a solid state battery.
@@SilvaDreams You really need to compare it to an 18650 Li-ion. Thats the state of the art cell and they are used everywhere.
And you are probably right. There are some really impressive 18650s, and the solid-state cells probably come at a high price
@Richi_Boi True but using a general battery as a refernce since more people know what those look like (but a 18650 is no different build wise it's just the makeup)
I looked it up. The datasheet says:
98% Chinesium
2% hype colour
This is a verified scam, using standard lipo batteries. This was my unsubscribe.
i like that you acknowledged your mistake at the beginning and explained how you'll improve. good integrity!
Looks very handy. Might be good to own in Houston.
I've been using my EcoFlow Delta Pro for almost 3 years. (Early-bird kickstarter). I love it. We boondock A LOT with it. When I'm boondocking, it's in the RV. When at home, we use it 24/7. So moving it back and forth from the RV is a challenge. The Yoshino being half the weight has me SUPER intrigued.
What do you use it for at home?
@@EnderViBrittania - I spent the money to have these systems for Boondocking and in case of emergency. So I want to recoup SOME of my investment. My son runs a window AC in his room because he likes it cold. He runs it off one DP+EB.
I use the other one to run my entertainment systems and my washing machine.
Yoshino's is the same weight. Lithium batteries are 20lb/kWh. Yoshino's 2.6kWh is also 20lb/kWh.
I live in an area where lights have gone off, which is an annoying hassle to grumble about, but last winter, power went off for four days. We were socked in by snow, sleet and finally freezing rain. The second morning it was 17F in the living room. At that moment, i swore that we were going to have something more than the electric company to choose from.
It doesn't take any nudging to get liquid gas to fire the heat, hot water and a gas cooktop that I have sorely missed over the decades here outside of Portland, Oregon.
The technology in LED light sources has really given us wonderful options, and understanding how MANY AC/DC transformers litter our house reminds me and others of how silly we have allowed our electrical systems nationwide dependent on one source for power. I doubt that will be the position as municipalities sizzle and pop straining infrastructure that was not tended to before it became an emergency. Where we have our place, we are dependent on wires strung on telephone poles to our power junction. Until recently, I never gave this much thought.
However, I've been at a standstill trying to find power for the electrical components. Switching the propane option is helpful, but it would then put us in the position of not having another power source should propane is not available. I'm still at the mumbling, reading and pulling on my beard stage, staring mostly at clouds. Solar panel installers and the state of Oregon swear it is a great option. Both claim they have money laying around as incentives to make the jump.
I'm 65 and having an absolute ball with both technology and almost a fluid growth in things I had never considered in my life. It's most definitely not the Jetsons, a spoof on the future of suburban-minded people--no comedy writer in the 1960s had THAT much of an imagination to capture our world in their timeline...if that made much sense. I find that in our present, the sense of doom as much as paradise takes my breath away, excites me, and pumps adrenalin. Life seems to be much of what Michael Crichton, the author pondered. I miss him and his pen, anbd wonder where he could take a story now.
Hey bro', as soon as I started reading your post it reminded me of what I've dealt with for years, then when you said, "outside Portland, Oregon" that explained it... Yeah, in the foothills of the Cascades, out in the woods, that's where I'm at too.
You're right, the power grid here is absolutely unreliable, I lose power every year, sometimes multiple times per year, and sometimes because of the most minor and lame causes because it's so ridiculously vulnerable... A falling branch, imagine that in the woods. What's worse is that there are fewer reliable sources because they've (fools) have been removing local hydro generators on rivers that were excellent for many years and could have been upgraded/restored, they tore out the Trojan Nuclear plant that was perfect for an upgrade to new tech. So the power rates continue to rise and the product gets worse, with no plans to improve it anytime soon.
But to some people, other people are a complete afterthought and usually a nuisance, rather than fellow humans.
The solution is to find a good idea for individual, independent power, not solar crap connected to the grid, because that creates other issues and doesn't relieve your dependence. I have gas and diesel generators and all that, but that's not a solution for any duration... I'm working on it too.
Oh, one thing I would highly recommend is a simple woodstove for backup heat, you should never be exposed to that kind of cold inside your home, it's UnAmerican to allow it! LOL (not funny, I know) I have lots of wood for sure, and I could show you how to get it cheap or free. I'm hoping that the fear of banning wood heat has passed, and if not we have politicians to remove still.
Personally for me I’d look at a propane generator for backup. Maybe to run led lights, we’ll, refrigerator, and the blower for the heat. Then maybe get a small solar setup to charge another separate backup system. Do you heat with wood? That saves me a bundle.
Matt, you freaking rule. What a cool video, as usual
I love Ground News. Great sponsor.
The fact the first gen product is actually able to compete and not just a tech demo is very promising, hope it continues to improve so we can all have safer and lighter batteries
It is not just supposed to compete, it is supposed to be better than another product it is trying to replace. The fact is they have known solid states would cost more, but with that would come like double the cycle life. As in theory they are not supposed to build up dendrites which reduces the SoC. Except reality has been different. Instead now we have a product that costs more, but does not really last any longer. The first gen is a complete flop and does not provide some of the main points or pro's it was supposed to in order to replace liquid lithiums. UNTIL that is the case, it won't either.
It will be promising, when they can show little dendrite build up.
@@kevinfisher1345
You make a lot of claims, and just like those who have proven to be wrong so often over the past 4 years, you have no source citations to support your claims.
Besides, since when have first gens ever lived up to the hype of marketers who are trained to tell lies?
@@kevinfisher1345 The Yoshino is 4x as expensive and the same weight of the average LIPO4 products like the EG4 LifePower4 Rack Mount Lithium Battery. This VOD is hype not facts. Anyone can pretend anything, we don't need hype.
@@scotttovey There has been ton of hype about solid state replacing lithium liquid batteries. Any ignorant person should know this, that has been aware of the media. But sure you want some cites, just for you mate since you apparently are ignorant of what has been going on.
Google search "solid state batteries replace lithium" shows a ton of results (I did not even need to type it all as it auto filled). From Popular Mechanic article _'Solid-State Batteries Are Here and They're Going to Change How We Live'_ with a quote "The lithium-ion battery that Solid Power hopes to make *obsolete* is already a modern marvel that earned its key researchers a Nobel Prize. Or from PC Mag article titled _'This EV Battery Tech Could Make Lithium-Ion Obsolete'_
Through out history, it is a well known fact that in order for a new product to replace an older product, it must be not only just as good as, but better than the previous product it is trying to replace.
So what are some of the claims about solid state and why it will replace?
Harvard Gazette quotes Professor Xin Li “A lithium-metal battery is considered the holy grail for battery chemistry because of its high capacity and energy density,” and goes on to say "Li and his team have designed a stable, lithium-metal, solid-state battery that can be charged and discharged at least 10,000 times - far more cycles than have been previously demonstrated - at a high current density."
That is more than double what lithium phosphate cycle span is. The reason is due to a couple of things. Again as per Harvard Gazette "lithium-metal batteries, which hold substantially more energy in the same volume and charge in a fraction of the time compared to traditional lithium-ion batteries." So they potentially have higher density. Also are supposed to charge faster. And this is in part due to dendrite build up, or lack of it in theory and are supposed to be more stable.
Again as quoted by Li from Harvard in cite above "This multilayer, multimaterial battery prevents the penetration of lithium dendrites not by stopping them altogether but rather by controlling and containing them." Or from the Popular Mechanic cite above "Scientists eventually landed on a solution that prevented the growth of dendrites and eliminated the risk of fire: a solid electrolyte-often made of a ceramic similar to a semiconductor-that replaced the flammable liquid electrolyte and physically blocked the growth of dendrites." And also Li from Harvard goes on to say "With its high current density, the battery could pave the way for electric vehicles that can fully charge within 10 to 20 minutes."
And also from PC Mag cite above "they [solid-state lithium] promise ultra-fast charging and nearly 1,000-mile range, according to Toyota"
As to cost. Per CNN article _'Solid state batteries promise to radically change EVs.'_ is "Solid-state batteries will tend to be more expensive because they contain more lithium, which is expensive, said Kephart."
Conclusion. Solid state are supposed to be more stable, charge faster, have higher density and much longer cycle life. All at a higher initial cost (due to more lithium, new tech, etc), but should recoup with the longer life span and higher density. This battery per even the OP is just competing and not a major improvement. It has not accomplished any of the claimed hype except maybe being more stable. The other pro is solid state are supposedly lighter, which we do not know for sure if that is the case with this battery or not since cells were not actually weighed here. So that is another it might have accomplished. But I did not bring up weight before, so find someone else to cite that. The talking points I brought up, it is a complete flop and does not accomplish many of the points it was supposed to in order to replace just as I stated. Now are you happy I cited these for you instead of you doing your own research? And have had to make me type a mini novel just to appease you and laziness?
When has any first gen product ever lived up to its hype? Easy, plastics for one. Computers for another which replaced manual / analog maths as just one example of first gen computer's living up to its hype. And for the third strike, fiber optics.
@@scotttovey I am still waiting to be proven wrong mate. I noticed you have nothing but some baseless accusations and provided nothing yourself. It must be easy to go around claiming someone is wrong without making a single claim yourself.
Meanwhile I have been calling out BS for over 2 decades online now. And backing it up. Because I respond about things that I definitely know about.
Love to see when these roll out to ebikes. Great channel and video…thanks!
Thanks for watching!
@@UndecidedMF why aren't you ever critical of manufacturers' claims? Your videos are always espousing some new thing and "it'll change everything!" but it's the same shit we've been hearing from pop science "news" for years.
@@int3254 What does this have to do with George's comment about ebikes? You're just gonna hijack a comment thread so you can yell at the video author? Make your own thread.
This isn't using SS battery.
Check out the breakdown of the product from TechInsights. It shows and I quote,
"Upon removing the pouch casing, we found the separator to be wet with liquid electrolyte.
The presence of the liquid electrolyte contradicts the definition of solid-state batteries. The
quantity of the electrolyte also challenges the concept of hybrid solid-state batteries,
especially in the absence of a lithium metal anode."
@@int3254 Much easier to produce videos quickly that way. Doing research and being honest takes time and effort.
good video. and a good answer to skeptics.
I'm soooo happy to see it has eventually kicked off! Like you said, it can only get even better going forward.
It seems to me that the information in this video is entirely based on the manufacturers claims. What we need to see is a full strip down plus hard testing. We need to know the component quality, the build quality and whether or not those charge cycles and performance figures really stand up.
Sounds like a job for Project Farm
Then buy one and test it. Make a video and put it up so we can all criticize it.
@@SanchoSanto if I could afford to... are you offering to fund it?
But that's on par with his other videos. I rarely watch them anymore because they just feel like repackaged sales pitches. It's all hyping up specific products with some subliminal fossil-industry FUD, like how he talked about the "dangers" of LiIon multiple times in this one.
PS: To make clear why I call it FUD, just think about how many LiIon batteries every one of us has around nowadays. From cell phones to power tools, night lights to loudspeakers, those are everywhere. Yet, the rate of fires caused by electric appliances is still going down, not up. The same is true for EVs, where there are so few fires that statistics vary from 6x to 100x less risk of fire than combustion-engine-driven vehicles.
@@HenryLoenwind "combustion engine fireball" is a myth
When comparing battery weight per watt/hr why not weight the actual batteries instead of the whole device?
Because then he'd have to do more than read specs on amazon, which he's totally incapable of doing.
Because this isn't Project Farm, he didn't actually buy any of the other batteries. Which essentially negates the entire point of the comparison, the stupid light isn't what's making it weigh so much more, and I don't think the handle is to blame either. Pretty sure it's just not actually solid state in the first place. But since he didn't buy two of them, didn't buy the other brands, didn't open them up, and didn't do... any due diligence at all, we learn nothing from this video.
Why don't you take it apart! That would save us so much time on speculations. I appreciate you listening to comments tho ☺️
Matt is totally solid as he states the case for these batteries! 😅
So I'd like to now see this battery tested in hot weather conditions, like can I just leave this in my car and not worry it's going to lose much charge either?
and cold. -30 through +40C is normal for a car where I'd keep this.
The 4th gen Toyota Tacoma's have a JBL portable speaker with solid state battery that pops into the dash. I was surprised they'd trust any battery in a location that gets so hot, but feel they wouldn't risk such liability if they weren't confident it could handle the heat.
It's not a new battery.
Check out the breakdown of the product from TechInsights. It shows and I quote,
"Upon removing the pouch casing, we found the separator to be wet with liquid electrolyte.
The presence of the liquid electrolyte contradicts the definition of solid-state batteries. The
quantity of the electrolyte also challenges the concept of hybrid solid-state batteries,
especially in the absence of a lithium metal anode."
pressing x to doubt that is actually using solid state cells
most power stations like those use traditional lithium blends(the most common for systems like that is LiFePO4 due to high cycle life, perfect matching of 12v Lead-acid voltage range, and chemical stability in non-ideal environments)
but this is only after 2:30 so maybe you will tear it down and find real solid state cells, but I doubt it
Of course he doesn't tear it down, he just believes whatever companies tell him without ever questioning it.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 and that is the fundamental problem with "tech news"|
you can't trust claims, only verifiable data matters
are they actually using SSC's? or are they lying about it?
until those questions are answered by third-parties(exactly like how science works to delete bad data) I will assume it is common lithium cells in an established form factor
Really nice breakdown on a subject I have no knowledge about, thank you
*I don’t remember you pointing out; IT HAS 20A outlets!*
Geez this is as convincing as the performance graphs Apple gives during their events...
Anyone else sceptical this is actually Solid-state? No teardown, no better specs than normal Li-ion. Plus solid state is supposed to be way way more expensive.
This cube ball made this video and didn’t mention once how fast it charges just wow