Where Does the Left Thumb Go on Violin?
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- čas přidán 14. 09. 2020
- Understand the logic that governs what we do with our left thumb on violin. If you like the information given here, come get more at: www.RedDesertViolin.com
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Thank you!
I was researching about my thumb position below 1 st finger. I'm so relieved i am not doing horrible things!
Yes, it's allowed...especially if you are a smaller person, or shorter. If you have big hands or super long fingers....THEN you might be doing something wrong.
I just discovered you yesteray! I think I could sit and watch all day, for teaching tips and personal tips! Thank you!
Thank you, thank you, thank you! A former teacher of mine used to insist in changing the placement and shape of my thumb, which looks like yours. I tried and I tried to do what she said, but as the shape of my whole hand changed drastically, I couldn't even play in tune, and a lot of tension affected my playing. I decided I wanted to go on playing my way, but I always kind of had the fear of doing something wrong. This video and your thoughts bring a relief, really! Thank you again!
I'm so happy to hear this. My experience was similar. I always felt guilty for keeping my thumb there....but then I think it was Todd Ehle who casually mentioned that for smaller hands, the thumb can drift back. (I am almost sure it was him) So.....hey, whatever works, right?
Thank you so much maam, for teaching about thumb position......from India !
Really liked your explanation, many thanks. It is always great to come back to the basics.
I agree. Every time I revisit the basics, I discover new things, and my own playing improves!
So well prepared video teaching. I learn a lot. Thanks.
Thanks for your kind words. Glad it helped!
You really are a superb teacher. Thank you.
Thanks for the kind words!
omg.. I have so much left hand tension and watched your other video about the topic... done that for a month. didn't help. Changed thumb position a few times around.. tension got worse.. now seeing your thumb position... the layed back one.. works like a charm for me as well! So much less tension! Thanks!
Wow! I am sooo glad you wrote and told me that! I had tension before and sort of just fell into the laid back thumb position....I guess for some people it's just right. Are you short like me? I am 5'2". I wonder if that has anything to do with it.😮
@@RedDesertFiddle I have never met an adult with smaller hands than mine, but I am not short. I am 1m70. I think that translates to 5'7. I buy gloves for 8 to 10 year olds and my pinky is half the size of my ring finger.
thanks, I think this information is quite over-looked when trying to learn as a beginner, yet possibly the most important as the thumb position really sets you up for ability to do vibrato and generally having correct holding position to play.
I hope it will help you get started establishing a good placement for your thumb. Don't be afraid to experiment, and above all.....teach your thumb not to squeeze, and allow it to be free. (some movement on the neck is a good thing)
I saw several video of yours and I think its really helpful..you make this video with clear explanation and complete..
Glad it was helpful!
Since im learning violin by myself, your videos really help. Thanks for your work
You're very welcome! Keep up the good work!
Another great lesson! Thanks Lora
Thanks for all your kind words, Michael. Much appreciated.
wow you're teaching so exact and I extremely needed it, appreciate you a lot, from Iran 🌺
I am so happy to help! Greetings to you in Iran!
Thank you so much for uploading this, it is really helpful, I was never quite sure where to place my thumb before - so now I know!
You're welcome! Good luck!
I like the true effort you make to explain the better way to tranfert what you think and feel to the public i appréciante.. hat’s off to you !
Thanks, Theo. Sometimes, I try to be careful not to present my way as "THE ONE TRUE WAY", because it rarely is. My CZcams viewers are GREAT to recognize my efforts and good intentions.
I play acoustic guitar and have always had difficulty with thumb position. Your video has been more help than any guitar tutorial I’ve watched, and I’ve watched very many! Thank you so much, you are a great teacher and explain things superbly. 👍
Thank you for your very high praise!
So interesting to know what to do with the left thumb Loralyn , thank you for this important information.
You are welcome! Thanks for watching.
Thank's for sharing, this is very useful !
Thanks, I hope it helped. Thumb is tricky, because it is so individual!
Such a good video. I tuned in because I want ideas for my teaching, but I will take away some good ideas for my own playing. Thank you so much!
I appreciate that very much, Ellen. I LOVE getting ideas from other teachers on youtube as well! I think we are all happy to exchange ideas!
Very informative! Thank you.
Glad it was useful!
Good details. Thank you.
Glad it was useful to you!
So so helpful .... thank you Bren
You are so welcome! Good to see you here!
Merci beaucoup, Lora...it cleared up some issues I've been having with thumb position. I still practise every day and know I'm improving......... ever so incrementally ! I love my precious 'Giovan Palao Maggini Brefcia - 1641 violin ! Sadly, it's a clone... but a very good one.
I'd love a clone of your violin!!! Glad the video helped clear some things up for you!
Yeah! I noticed Perlman's thumb wildly flying all over the place in 1st and 3rd position. It went long, short, curved, back and forth in his lightning fast clasics.
Great video. Thanks.
Im learning shifting. His hands are huge.
LOL....yes it's fun to watch him break all the rules that we are supposed to follow, huh?!
Great info
Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Great to know. I think I have been making myself go to 1st position, but belongs higher. Was messing up my ability to block hole on back of my recorder. So good to know guidance isn't a rule.
Yes, take it all in stride, and if one way just doesn't work for you, maybe you need to go "outside the bounds". I can't speak as far as your recorder! You got me there!
Absolutely PERFECT instructional video. All the little "tips" to make violin playing easier and better that would normally take years to learn. I WILL be searching out all the videos by this lady. I better check out her website, too.
Thank you for your great feedback, Mystery47! Wishing you the best of luck in your violindeavors!
@@RedDesertViolin - I just ran across my first obstacle in learning the violin - how to tune it. Unfortunately, I tried to tune it as I would a guitar - by turning the pegs. Broke a string. I had forgotten all about those little mini-tuners at the other end of the violin. Now I've got to figure out how to attach new strings. Maybe I should search for a CZcams video on how to restring a violin first.
wow. Amazing. I got an answer for the role of a thumb for vibrato. Thank you.
Great!
Very helpful! Thank you!
Howdie Francis! Fancy meeting you here! Glad the video was useful!
@@RedDesertViolin absolutely!
✨Thank You so much. This was exactly the explanation I needed. Love from India💞. And your vedios are so helpfull.
I am glad you found the answer you needed, Allen. Keep up the great work, and I wish you good health there in India!
My favourite violin teacher by far 😌
That's so nice, Kylie!
Thank you!
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You are welcome! Thanks for subscribing!
Thank you 3000 for all your videos here and on VSM channel. I learned a lot, really. Where do you live, ma'am?
I am in Arizona.
@@RedDesertViolin Oh... too far! But I'll just be positive and thank the technology for introducing me to such a wonderful teacher. 😊
Love and respect from Punjab (Indian side)
Great instructions! I have been having the tip of my thumb directly under the middle of the neck and sliding the tip of my thumb up and down as I need. I think this made it harder to really feel where my notes were. I'm hoping your technique in your video will help me in my playing.
Hey Davidpugh9947, I'm very glad you are aware of the thumb problem. Whenever I have a student who places their thumb under the neck, it is because they feel insecure with their shoulder rest/chin rest. So they feel the need to hold the violin up with their left hand. You must investigate and figure out how to balance the violin using your collarbone, shoulder/chest, and passive weight of your head. Then your left hand will be free. Please see my numerous videos about shoulder rests and chin rests. (it is also possible to achieve balance without a shoulder rest) Keep it up!
I think your spot on about thumb on mid bottom of neck. Now push it slightly to left to 7 o'clock and that is where the books say is ideal hang out for thumb. Of course Nicolas thumb is often up around finger board and I've seen others do this also. The best advice I can give is grab an argument and chuck between thumb and violin neck.play it that way a few minutes at a time and youl see a dramatic change in how you cradle the violin.there is that gap Yahuti talks about that you need in order to play right.😅😅
By the way that's art. Gum eraser not argument as the computer miss typed. I hate being miss quoted.
I started moving my thumb closer to the second finger to reduce some of my left-hand tension. Having the thumb and index finger directly opposed on the sides of the neck would just lock things up for me. Will certainly check out your left-hand squeeze video for additional tips. Thanks.
That is GREAT that you found the spot for your thumb that relieves tension. I am just the opposite....my thumb has to angle toward the scroll, and then I am perfectly relaxed. We are all unique!
Thanks for the teaching! It was very helpful for me as a total beginner of playing violin in an age of 66!
Wonderful! I wish you the best of luck, and lots of happy music!
can you demonstrate playing the g string my left had is not good
10:30 I don't see the particular link. I'll keep looking. Trying after years of not playing (and never played professionally) tobreak that very habit. Thank you for addressing this!!
Here you go! czcams.com/video/GnNgGWqy0Wo/video.htmlsi=mMPcM835IzODCL0x
Great tips and tricks. Say, you got new boxwood pegs. I love mine. Do you feel/ hear any difference from the ebony? Lighter weight? Lovely and match the color of your violin nicely.
The boxwood pegs are the result of a botched install job of mechanical pegs. The shop put them on my violin gratis, and yes, I love them. I don't notice the weight difference, but they are a couple grams lighter. Tonally.....I sort of feel like they sound better, but they also adjusted my sound post....so.....it's hard to say. You are very observant!
LoL I notice things 😎
I love the term 'personal geometry' :)
Yeah, it kind of says it all: we are all different....and all our angles add up differently. Thanks for watching.
Now i got the idea. I understand why most of the time i learn viola, i feel tense on my thumb. It is because my thumb is passive one. I need to loosen it a bit and more active.😺
Yes, you need to let your thumb be "dynamic" not static. But when you allow your thumb to participate, DO NOT allow it to start to squeeze! Just let it be free and responsive!
@@RedDesertViolin i have my left hand position in relax state. And i don't squeeze the neck too. But I still feel much tense at my thumb. Perhaps I misinterpreted the "counter pressure" concept. I press back the neck with my thumb quite much. I thought that I need to give a pressure so that my thumb can be my axis for my palm and fingering position. But then I found it is a bit hard to shift. 😹 And my thumb position is like yours too, I tend to more in oblique position.
Btw, Do you have any suggestions for loosening or decreasing the tendency of "too much counter pressure" on thumb?
Speaking about myself i noticed that the thumb rotation is more easy if your left shoulder and elbow are rotating .. in a young person it is quite easy , but on an old Dino like me i have to practice rotating the elbow to make the left arm more flexible ..
I appreciate this input, Theo. It's easy to teach from a single perspective (mine) but it's SO GOOD to learn from others' perspective. (even Dinos! ESPECIALLY Dinos!)
@@RedDesertViolin thanks for your 3 anwers .. i like your teaching from many points of vieux thanks to you ma scratching And sliding of bow has disappeared because i had ad banana inconscious habits
I checked on my violine for my morphology the thumb should be where A on G string is hence positioned in beween first and second fingers ( at the opposite ) and will in almost between ofF and G on E string
Yes, I have read books that try to say exactly where the thumb should go. It's good to START with that advice, but remember that it's not set in stone.
Hello Laura, please give me your best advice on the short pinky which is additionally recessed deeper into the hand relatively to other fingers. Well, not the best violin scenario, I know... I'm fine with the Ionian tetrachord but once I place my middle finger next to my index when playing Dorian tetrachord, in order to give enough span for my LH pinky I have to bend my hand outward or otherwise place my index, middle and ring almost flat on the fingerboard. Both methods are not good violin practice but otherwise the pinky will not reach its position.
Oh, by the way don't ask me how I reach with my pinky for D on the G string in the first position followed by Eb on the D string when playing C-min scale. That's another story.
Hi John. A couple thoughts:
First of all, unless your pinky problem is EXTREME, you should be able to figure out a work-around. But if the pinky is extremely shortened/recessed, then you might need to consider a 3/4 or 7/8 violin, even if the rest of your body is big enough for a 4/4.
Have you had any private lessons? Can you gain access to a private consultation? It would be worth the money you pay, because a professional can zoom in, help you figure out what it's going to take, and save you lots of time and hassles.
I suspect the problem is lack of finger independence, and possibly a body-mapping issue. (body mapping is specifically for musicians, to learn how our bodies are constructed so that we use them properly on whatever instrument we take.....look it up....it's a whole physio discipline)
So I would recommend Jennifer JOhnson's body mapping book, "What Every Violinist Needs to Know About the Body", or you can find resources online, just not as complete.
I would recommend that you find my "Finger Independence" and "Left Hand Speed and Dexterity" video, which includes downloads of sheet music exercises, and work on finger independence for a couple months.
I would also recommend that you experiment with changing the placement of your THUMB, and see if perhaps moving the thumb toward the scroll or toward the bridge can help your pinky to extend better.
I know the answer lies in one of the suggestions above. I'd love an update on what you discover in your process. Good luck!
@@RedDesertViolinThank you Laura for your expert advice, I'll look into that.
When I shift to the 5th position or higher, my left hand fingers tend to get straight and not remain curved. Especially when I'm using my 4th finger to play. How do I avoid this and keep my fingers curved?
Are you saying your fingers "cave in", standing on the finger tips, or are they "reaching" and landing on the flat part of the pad?
If it's the latter, then you are probalby trying to reach across the BOUTS of the violin. Instead, you need to ELEVATE your hand ABOVE the bouts in higher positions. THis means the heel of your hand will be higher than the top plate of the violin.
If it's the first option, (fingers caving in but on the fingertips) This is not necessarily a bad thing in high positions....in fact, it is desirable.
You use this as a starter and the don't like using hand support. But then it's up to you to find the position. I do a warmup of 4 finger scales at 1st and 3rd position, fast with an unrosined practice bow with synthetic hair, mostly silent, so I don't care where my fingers go. I do all 4 strings very quickly, moving the fingers very quickly, it's a mechanical exercise of fingers, thumb, bow, not a musical one. Over 6 months my thumb has settled. Initially the thumb had a lot of movement between strings and it would be cumbersome if I did not adjust. Now it is almost stable single position close to hers, bottom, slightly left of center, and it just happened over time similar to holding the bow.
I'm glad you found a method that works for you.
My understanding is the left thumb should grip at 7 oclick. On a triangular neck on a d shaped neck there is some difficulty I have with this basic rule. Idealy I know not to death grip the neck with the left hand but without a shoulder rest this is difficult. I dont like being locked into the violin. I LIKE MOVEMENT AND ABILITY TO CHANGE ATTITUDE IF NEED BE. I JUST TRY TO PLAY BAREBACKED ON MY COLLAR BONE. I DONT LIKE PINCHING THE WOOD WITH A CHIN REST. THERE IS SO MUCH GOOD RESPONSIVE WOOD THAT WANTS TO VIBRATE WHY PINCH IT OFF? I MAY EVENTUALLY REMOUNT MY CHIN REST TO FACILLITATE VIBRATO BUT I VE GOTTEN USED TO PLAYING WITHOUT A CHIN REST. DO YOU KNOW ABOUT BOWS. IS THE BUTTON SUPPOSED TO TOUCH THE STICK? I HEARD THE OTHER DAY THAT ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO! THANKS FOR YOUR STRAIGHT FORWARD VIDIOS.
the button is the screw that tightens the hair, and YES, if it is working properly, it should snug up to the stick. As you turn the button, there is a screw that goes through a little eyelet, and it pulls the frog, causing the hair to tighten or loosen. It is VERY COMMON for the eyelet to be messed up, and it's a simple repair.
Shoulder rests are optional. Chin rests are not optional. I hope you meant to say you have gotten used to playing without a shoulder rest. (I hope you use a chin rest)
Could you talk about arm vibrato because of the thumb is going to be different?
Wendy, unless I misunderstand you...I believe your thumb placement will be consistent whether you use arm vibrato or wrist vibrato....can you clarify your question?
@@RedDesertViolin yes I understand arm vibrato means your whole arm has to just move up and down the fretboard but your thumb can't stay in one position that way right? Like wrist vibrato is kind of easy.
finger vibrato not so much. But arm vibrato I've recently become curious about and my whole violin of course tends to want to move with me
@@RedDesertViolin that's not very clear is it?
🤔
@@RedDesertViolin do you mean the thumb stays in the same relative position or do you mean the thumb it supposed to stay still in the same spot on the fretboard while you're doing the vibrato
Great video, but you make it seem very simple that the thumb can just anchor itself with vibrato Mine wants to move with my fingers when I try to play vibrato. We're not supposed to put pressure on the violin, yet we're supposed to have a conjoined finger that can do nothing while the other fingers move around so much. I just can't get it.
V T, what you are describing is ALL 100% true...and therein lies the difficulty......but you CAN get it. (it just sort of defies what we think is normal) Let's see....have you seen my other videos on Quick Tips for vibrato? And also my videos on shoulder rests?
What you need to learn is how to take thumb out of the vibrato equation....thumb needs to be passive. I have an exercise for this, I call it the "thumb swing". I hope that is on the Quick Tips video.
Also, try to free your thumb from the task of opposing your fingers. To do this, realize that your shoulder rest, and the weight of your HEAD alone is MORE than enough to counter the pressure of your fingers. Sure, it takes practice to learn this, but from a physics standpoint, the counterpressure is enough.
Also, recognize that the thumb sits on the side of the neck, and SLIGHTLY below the curve of the neck.....so the PAD of your thumb gives a very slight upward pressure just from catching the curve of the neck OBLIQUELY.
I hear your frustration in your comment, but your comment shows real awareness and astuteness. I think you can get it if you don't give up.
@@RedDesertViolin Well, you might have just given me the courage not to give up. I put away my violin. I'm probably not ready for vibrato anyway, but I find it so frustrating that I can't sound the way I would like. I'll pick it back up again. Yours is the most comprehensive advice I've received yet. Thanks. I'll watch your videos.
@@2ysur are you attempting it again?
@@deadmanswife3625 I'm not attempting vibrato at this time. I started in the Suzuki method 50+ years ago as a child and I think it's really hard for me to learn any other way. I like Laura's videos and am kind of starting all over again with her videos. I was so angry with the violin that I put it down, but honestly, I don't even play well enough to think about playing vibrato now. It's like wanting to be a ballerina but not practicing toe exercises. So, I'm just going to return to the passion of learning violin period, and hope that it will click one day.
I am so glad I found you and this video. I am a beginner with a small hand and have been struggling with the thumb position. Thank you for making this video. I love watching and hearing you play. I can keep going now!! Will continue to watch you with the Suzuki Violin Book 1.
Ok
Hope it helped!
0:22 Rule of Thumb, lol.
Ba Dum Bump!
there is no "rule of thumb" lolz
Har Har....I totally missed that opportunity for a pun!
Is that thumb nail aimed at viola players?😂
I tend to 'hook' my left thumb onto the neck and I can't get out of the habit !!!
The BIGGEST thing is to make sure you aren't squeezing, and that your thumb shifts with the rest of your hand, AND that you are not trying to support the violin with your thumb.
But to change the left thumb is a very difficult thing to do. I have a video called "Break the Squeezing Habit in 28 days".....and even if you aren't squeezing, it will give you good ideas on how to approach CHANGING your thumb.
Keep in mind: if it works for you, if your vibrato and shifting is ok and you don't have tension....maybe your thumb is not a problem. So just consider all options.
@@RedDesertViolin Hi, thanks for a reply. I am squeezing and supporting my violin with the thumb. I've been teaching myself from video's etc and hadn't realized what I was doing until it had become a habit. I find I can't get the violin supported properly on my shoulder, feels like it will slide off so I started using my thumb to help support it. I'm not at the vibrato stage yet. I'll check out your other video, many thanks x
@@RedDesertViolin I am starting to use your 28 day challenge
My teacher actually told me the same thing
My problem is that my pinky barely reaches which makes me squeeze the violin
In 3rd position (because my pinky reaches better there) and with the other fingers I don't squeeze
Thanks though
Thank you so much maam, for teaching about thumb position......from India !