ACCURASCALE CLASS 37 ISSUES at Chadwick Model Railway | 212.
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- čas přidán 4. 01. 2024
- The Accurascale Class 37 is truly a great model, but it does have its issues.
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I have spent thousands with accurascale. Five locos and 100 wagons and coaches. The detail and look of them are without a doubt the best out here. But the quality control and drivability is appalling. One of my 37 dcc chips didn’t even work and took 3 months for a replacement. Both 37s come off the track like yours. All three 55’s sit unused due to being too fragile and not able to negotiate anything but perfect track(all 50 of my non accurascale locos are fine). You’re correct the back to back of the wheels they have been all over the shop. I had a whole batch of wagons that were all way out, Accurascale told me it was bad batch. I really hope they pay attention and sort these quality issues out, we don’t buy these just to look at, we need to run these on our layouts too!
Thanks, R23, for sharing your dreadful situation. Regards, Charlie
This market obsession with over detail from the smaller manufacturers has clearly got out of hand. IMO, Bachmann and Heljan have struck the balance spot on.
That is a terrible state of affairs with your AccurascaleI models. they seem to have big problems. I also think that the obsession with detail has gone way too far. I would prefer less detail but solid engineering and running quality over fiddly detail that you can't see from more than a couple of Cm from and drops of any way.
@@KayDee73Agreed! Add Sutton Class 24/25 into that list too as they are solid.
Agree with what you say about detail. As modellers we want plenty of detail but buying “Ready to Run” should at least mean you don’t receive a model that has reduced itself to a “kit of parts” before it’s even been placed on the rails. @@jamier9627
I'm pleased to report that Accurascale have immediately volunteered to replace Lance's decoder Free of Charge. Thanks guys.
Excellent stuff, thats very mind of them
so have they fixed the issue or is it just going to return with this new decoder?
Issues occur. The sign of a good company is how they deal with them. On this matter: Accurascale 10/10, Hattons 0/10
Result. However, were Accurascale forthcoming with any advice on how they propose to deal with the sound issue generally? I have a single sound 37/0 but don't have a layout to run it. I am worried that there may be a problem waiting to be discovered in a year or so, when the warranty has ended and I run it for the first time.
Anyhow, great stuff, as always.
Bob
@@peterwalker6535 i wouldnt even give hattons a 0
Hi Charlie glad the problems are being sorted. From my days of running a retail business I would say that Hattons were legally obliged to fix the class 37, but as the loco had been modified they would not be required to give a refund. Your friend Lance asked for a refund, what Hattons should have replied was 'sorry no, but we will fix it for you...' I think. Looking at the bigger picture it appears that Accurascale should do a recall and sort out the issues with a decoder's if it is proved that their design is at fault. Personally I'm glad I run mainly Lima, no problems, dead cheap, no detail bits to break all the time and you can fix them simply all day long... (lol)
Sent my 37 back ,,motor issues ,,,i`ve got 20 year old Lima loco`s which run all day long on dcc..even put cd drive motors in some and they go like stink ...... 👍👍
Fortunately, Accurascale will replace Lance’s defective decoder. Regards, Charlie.
Very interesting video Charlie. Thank you for imparting more of your wisdom and in depth research. All the best!
For all their problems mainly nosiness, less than butter smooth at slower speeds the Lima pancake and Hornby ring motors are highly reliable and easy to fix.
My 37 also derailed due to a rocking bogie. However, I inserted two 1cm x 1cm 2mm thick foam squares at the rear of each bogie (one behind the other), and the problem was solved. The foam (bought from a local craft and hobby shop) has a sticky backing which enabled me to fix it to the underside of the main body. It provides a cushioned surface which allows the bogie to move over any undulations in the track, while considerably reducing the rocking motion. I ran the loco with a couple of coaches at full power round a simple oval on Peco Code 100 track with 2nd radius curves and it performed beautifully.
Many thanks for such an extremely interesting comment. Could you send any photos of your modification to Chadwick Model railway@gmail.com? Regards, Charlie
This is where a channel like yours earns its money. These are expensive toys and should have no issues at least for the first 3 years. It should be not needed to put pressure on the manufacturer to replace the parts that malfunction . Quality service is what makes a brand great.
I couldn’t agree more Dutchman. Regards, Charlie.
3 years??? There's plenty of Hornby Dublo locos still running after 60+ years!
Oh yes for sure. Here in my country we have a group or 2 thats dedicated to make models (SAR) they are generally good to high qualty but very expensive and i mustered only 1 model from a group have the loco 6 yrs now. But there are others that just do there own thing(well intending)but do not provide models with integrity. And some end up buying these models with a lot of expenses paid and got back poor quality. I have called out 1 group in particular and they never replied 😅because they knew i was right and onto them. I think the time is close when we might have to consider making our own stuf(locomotives)which will be another mission in it self. Some here have tried. Or they modify radically and fail miserably. Others jus want to enjoy the hobby even with constraints. So much is still to be said and done when it comes to rail modelling as a hobby
Well done, Charlie! It is sometimes necessary for one to stand up and call out manufacturers/vendors which do not take care of their customers. We spend precious specie for these items, and ofttimes the product is substandard. Your video will help them remember where their bread is buttered. Thanks for your courage and candor!
Thanks Pat, that was very kind of you to say so. Regards, Charlie
Hello Charlie, I owned a hobby shop here in New Zealand for just on 24 years. In a situation like this we would have accepted the model and returned the model back to the manufacturer for a replacement, repair or credit, which we would have returned to our customer. I can understand Hatton’s reluctance somewhat, as not all customers are 100 % honest. As an example, early on one of our staff exchanged Scalextric slot-car that had stopped working with no questions asked, only to find on examination later in the day that the customer had removed the electric motor. We were only caught out once with this trick. Regards Barry
Oh Barry, that clearly is gross dishonesty. Regards, Charlie
Having been in supply of Model Railways for over 50 years I regret to advise that manufacturers no longer play ball as much on their faulty products . Until approx 6-7 years ago the main two suppliers had what you would expect as back up for their product , if the item was found to be faulty on test before selling to the end user they would replace the unit . What Hornby do now for example is insist on repairing the product, this means that when the retailer gets the unit back it is in reality no longer a new item . If the item has been in stock for I think a couple of years they don’t want to know , I would need to check the exact period but you get the idea they are shifting the load on to the retailer .
Having been in supply of Model Railways for over 50 years I regret to advise that manufacturers no longer play ball as much on their faulty products . Until approx 6-7 years ago the main two suppliers had what you would expect as back up for their product , if the item was found to be faulty on test before selling to the end user they would replace the unit . What Hornby do now for example is insist on repairing the product, this means that when the retailer gets the unit back it is in reality no longer a new item . If the item has been in stock for I think a couple of years they don’t want to know , I would need to check the exact period but you get the idea they are shifting the load on to the retailer .
Having been in supply of Model Railways for over 50 years I regret to advise that manufacturers no longer play ball as much on their faulty products . Until approx 6-7 years ago the main two suppliers had what you would expect as back up for their product , if the item was found to be faulty on test before selling to the end user they would replace the unit . What Hornby do now for example is insist on repairing the product, this means that when the retailer gets the unit back it is in reality no longer a new item . If the item has been in stock for I think a couple of years they don’t want to know , I would need to check the exact period but you get the idea they are shifting the load on to the retailer .
Having been in supply of Model Railways for over 50 years I regret to advise that manufacturers no longer play ball as much on their faulty products . Until approx 6-7 years ago the main two suppliers had what you would expect as back up for their product , if the item was found to be faulty on test before selling to the end user they would replace the unit . What Hornby do now for example is insist on repairing the product, this means that when the retailer gets the unit back it is in reality no longer a new item . If the item has been in stock for I think a couple of years they don’t want to know , I would need to check the exact period but you get the idea they are shifting the load on to the retailer .
"Marvellous". That dry comment when it tipped over cracked me up 😂
He cracked me up too! Regards, Charlie
Very enjoyable Charlie. Thank you for all your efforts in getting newbies like myself into the hobby.
You’re most welcome mate, it’s great to have you on board.
Hi Charlie. I have suffered problems with my Accurascale class 37 as well. Problems with going round bends and derailing and motor issues, it has been back for repair 3 times at Accurascale. I have had enough and got a refund. Replaced it with a Bachmann model with no problems at all. My model was a DCC ready version.
Still a sad situation Stephen Regards, Charlie
Something to keep in mind for interest and useful to know., since I have never seen it mentioned in railway modelling. In a longbase wheelset of more than two axles the back to back should not be the same. Prototype railways or railroads worked this out in the 1870s as locomotives got bigger. In general the inner axles should have a smaller back to back distance. It is easy to see why by drawing an arc of two rails and drawing a rectangle over it at various points. American Steam Locomotives: Design and Development, 1880-1960 mentions the topic.
What’s a very interesting point Thorin. Regards, Charlie.
Great informative video, as a newbie to the hobby it helps us to see future problems that may occur.
I’m so pleased that you found it. Useful mate. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie Happy New Year to you and your family , glad your problem has been resolved
Rest assured Dave, my problems haven’t been resolved. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie.
I hear they’re going to make a movie about you - “Hattons, my part in their downfall” 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I’ll check with my agent!
😜
If you want to depress yourself, look at the pages and pages of sentimental twaddle on the RMWeb Hattons closure thread. Anything other than over the top endorsement for the Big H is blocked by Andy York as being political!@@ChadwickModelRailway
My opinion, which I offer "without prejudice" is that Hattons trading policy verges on sharp practice. If you call and get the standard "this call may be recorded for security and training purposes" then after finishing your conversation request a copy of any recording made.
That’s interesting James, but are they obliged to give you a copy? Regards, Charlie
I am not a lawyer but having read one legal firm's comment about the DPA it stated that this is regarded as a ! Perhaps a legal beagle might give a clearer response.@@ChadwickModelRailway
Last comment should have read as a GREY AREA!
Hi Charlie, thank you for your awesome videos as usual. I purchased an Accurascale GWR 7800 Manor Class via Rails of Sheffield in July this year and when it arrived it had the following issues. The chimney was broken off, there was a large clue mark and chipped paint on the front side of the boiler, the packaging was all warped (heat distortion apparently) and a gouge out of the sound instruction card. As you can imagine I did not even run it, I sent it straight back. To cut a long story short, it took 3.5 months of failed non-substantial repairs and continual dialogue including speaking to an Accurascale director to eventually decide to get my money back from Rails. Rails did everything they could to get the loco changed as Rails agreed with me that the repair that took over 3 months, only consisted of sticking the chimney back on, and not removing at least the glue mark was not good enough. Rails were happy to give me my money back at this point as they agree that there was no point sending the train back to me in this condition. Don't get me wrong Accurascale make fantastic trains, and I have a few others including 2 Class 37' and I guess as I only have a 10ft shunting layout, I have not found to many other issues at this point, other than power consumption when running all these trains with sound on at the same time. Thank you.
That’s a shocking tale Ben, was the Accurascale director helpful? Regards, Charlie
@ChadwickModelRailway To be honest I am not sure, the special team at Rails who deal with this kind of thing spoke to the director directly and I was not able to have contact with Accurascale as contact had to come via the retailer. After 3 months of messing around I gave Accurascale and Rails a week in the end (once I knew the director was involved) to give me an answer on a replacement, and I heard nothing back. So, I wrote to Rails and they were stuck in the middle to be honest. We agreed to a refund in the end as it was going on and on. It is such a shame as the trains are fantastic. If it was any consolation, I did manage to order a new replacement from Derails who I have used before and still had the Cookham Manor version in stock (whereas Rails did not). It was originally recommended to me as a good retailer by the "that railway guy" on his CZcams channel. The new model sent to me was perfect! Accurascale had only non-sound versions left, and they were selling by the day at the time. I even said I would take a new non-sound version of Cookham Manor from them via Rails and then if they send the separately sold sound decoder, I will fit it myself. But no nothing ever came of that. As for my 37’s, as I said I have had a few voltage issues with trains where my railway shorts out because I am running to many trains including the sound 37’s at the same time. They draw a lot of power, I think. I am going to beef up my power to help with this. Other than that, they have been fine, but I don’t run them very far so I will keep an eye on overheating decoders etc now. Just glad these issues are not only affecting me, so thank you for highlighting them :) and keep up the great work!
Hi Ben, my advice would be to get your 37s run for 30 to 60 mins each way on another layout if you can to make sure they are doing ok after that.
@@richardbraybrook8662 Thanks Richard, I will do that, I am going to get a rolling road to makes ure these work ok :)
Hi Charlie, Happy New Year🍾.
It’s a lovely looking model , glad you seem to have got to the bottom of the various problems you and Lance have been experiencing. I’ve got an old Lima 37 in green and although it lacks the fine detail of the more modern class 37’s it’s absolutely bomb proof.
Lima. The detail is, let's be honest, a long way behind the Bachmann and Accurascale. But, I'm pretty sure it'll still be running (surprisingly well) when they're both in the wheelie bin in decades to come. They just seem to be virtually 'wear-proof'.
Thanks, Stephen , that Lima Models has probably got another 30 years left in it yet. Regards, Charlie
My Accurascale Class 37 is identical to yours and it’s been the worst locomotive I’ve ever had. It cannot stay on the rails where every other loco I have from all the major manufacturers have no problem whatsoever. I’ve tried numerous fixes found on the web including removing the kinematic coupling and canting the rails with no success. The lights failed as well. Living in Australia, returning these items is really too expensive. 😢 My advice is…buyer beware! I’ve also decided to cancel my class 31 and pannier tank from Accurascale. The Siphon Gs I have are lovely, so no issues with rolling stock, but no more of their locos. Far too risky. Thank you for your channel. Appreciate the time you put into sharing your experiences of this fantastic hobby.
An interesting comment James. I would take advantage of their lifetime warranty. Regards, Charlie
Thank you Charlie. Over the last year I have been continuously warning of all these issues with Accurascale's models. The factory wrongly wired speaker configuration has also been highlighted by Richard at Roads and Rails The Motors fail too (on all classes) putting a strain on the ESU decoder as it has to increase the motor output current to maintain speed. Peter at Torridon Road YT channel did two videos on this a couple of months ago. Accurascale also have various other problems with intermittent directional lights randomly working and then not...... Accurascale's models continue to have issue. I have experienced a 75% failure rate from 12 Accurascale locos ,on classes 55, 92 and 37! Perhaps people will now start to believe my comments instead of attacking them! Regards Julian
If you e had 75% failure rate there must be something wrong with your layout mate. If that was the norm accurascale would be bust not winning awards ! I assume you’ve given them the chance to fix your issues if possible
@@Ste1952 I mean this in the kindest possible way; you sound like yet another ignorant denier, smitten by their products and abandoning objectivity and not much experience. Don't shot the messenger, I'm on the modeller's side here! Their locos usually work for a while, and then the problems start....I speak from having owned 12 of their locos, how about you?
Being an ex electro mechanical engineer, owning around 200 locos and having a 33 x 11 foot layout, I'm probably better qualified to comment on Accurascale's locos wouldn't you agree?
All the best.
Thanks for your comments gentlemen, there appears to be some shocking tales of woe around. Regards, Charlie
@@theeventhorizon-valebridge9512 No offense either and i own about two dozen accurascale locos and many many multiples that of others. I’ve sent back three Bachmann 47’s and one of their 37’s for motor issues and all the accurascale have been perfect. From an RMweb post they’ve made 18000 37’s so numerically even a dozen or so ‘issues’ is minuscule compared to the normal failure rate of any manufacturer. Any time i’ve contacted accurascale support they have been prompt, friendly and helpful with no messing about so I suggest they are on side of the modeller too (look at the improvement ts in the deltic etc based on feedback) and as a young company challenging the status quo and rediculous pricing they should be supported and given the benefit
of the doubt not vilified over some support issues that pale in comparison to problems i’ve had with recent hornby locos for example
@@Ste1952 Hello again, how lovely to hear from you. I agree with your sentiments and most of what you've said, you're obviously a serious modeller with longstanding experience.
There are certainly issues with all the main manufacturers, however, you being in denial of others who've experienced problems with Accurascale's locos is plainly a ridiculous stance, naive and asinine.
Just because you've not had problems yourself, doesn't mean you can therefore dismiss any others who have out of hand, and with such arrogance! I've heard many reports of various issues, especially motor failures across YT, including many prominent YT channels such as this video, from Charlie's Chadwick, and Peter Dixon's Torridon Road, Eugene at EuviRail and Michael Smith and Graham Foulston with their respective Lakeside layouts to name but a few.
Accurascale's models are superb but flawed with factory manufacturing issues. Perhaps it's teething problems, I hope they sort it out because their locos could be market leading, if they prove reliable. They are currently not, with frequently failing motors, sound decoders and lighting.
Their customer service is great and from my own experience it's the only reason I still buy any of their products. I only buy direct from them as the retailers are not so cooperative dealing with the issues, as Charlie and his friend found out from Hattons in this very video regarding replacing the sound decoder!
I suggest you step back, get off your high horse, take note of and accept other's real life experiences, rather than remaining completely dismissive and wearing rose tinted spectacles whilst being blissfully ignorant in a denier's bubble.
This now concludes all our communications, thank you. All the best my fellow modeller.
Thank you so much for this video, Charlie, you probably summed up all the issues with this loco!
I returned my Class 37 'Loch Lomond' to AS twice and am now a happy Bachmann version owner (heavily reduced below AS) with no issues at all...
Had an annoying two months with the 37 (and the 55 before, so I cancelled the 50).
First I thought the 'tentakles' (sanding pipes) were causing derailments on your loco, but the slomo showed it wasn't.
CV adjustment were necessary on the Class 55 to get it work properly, wonder why they deviate from the standard dettings so much.
Anyway, happy new year and thanks for this video (and your patience) again.
Thanks 972, I’m so pleased that you found it. Interesting mate. Regards, Charlie
Very clearly explained Charlie!! Thanks for the effort! Cheers Onno.
Thanks Onno, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards Charlie
I''m currently building my sons layout and will keep this in mind as he was very lucky to be able to get a Accurascale Class 37 for Christmas. I hope Lance gets his fixed or figure out a way to compensate him for something that isnt his fault or in his control. Thank you for your great videos.
Edit: Ive just seen Lance has been offered a solution! Great news!
Thanks Matt, yes this is a troubling situation. Regards, Charlie
Sale of goods act determines that something should be sold fit for purpose, you can't avoid this by terms and conditions in the warranty.
An excellent point Graham. Many thanks, regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie hope you had a great Christmas and good New Year, as always your videos are great and informative, I’m in the process as you know of building my railway, damp I think is now getting under control. But I have a 37 that I bought when they first come out from Accurascale so when I finally unbox mine I will be looking at it closely although by the time I come to run mine warranty’s will be long gone. As always these companies love to sell you expensive stuff but when things go wrong they tend to find ways of washing their hands as always, perhaps it’s about time we modellers got together and start to take them on and say enough is enough start taking responsibility for your goods and give a fair service. Keep up the great work Charlie and when finances allow later this year I’d love to become a patron. Regard’s Paul
Thanks Paul , it’s great to have you on board. Regards, Charlie
Happy New Year, Charlie. There was some fascinating stuff in that video.
Thanks Jeff, I’m so pleased that you found interesting. Regards Charlie
Hello Charlie! I have never commented on your page here before, although I have been an ardent follower for sometime now, watching with fascination your work on getting the 2 helix set ups going, doing your wiring, the DCC bits and bobs and so on. I must commend you on your delivery style, so easy and fun to watch and listen to! I am in Canada, so taking a decision to obtain one of the newly released locos for OO for my layout, which is DCC, involves taking the chance that should something not work, the process of sending it back for repairs or replacement is daunting to say the least! While I would still promote using a local dealer here that stocks this kit, some of the new stuff does not arrive on these shores soon enough to satisfy some of us British Railway modelers! I was sincerely considering putting my good money down and getting one of these Class 37s from Accurascale, but now will wait to see what happens. I am also very fond of the Class 37 and have quite a few on my layout, incl one from Bachmann with a Loksound V5 decoder, and very nice it is, runs superbly! Thanks for your videos and information, this is what makes this hobby so much more interesting! Happy New Year to you!
Thanks A7308, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Good luck with your project, regards, Charlie
Unfortunately these days a local supplier is as rare as rocking horse droppings. Only today I had to drive 6 miles to an appointment and noted that I passed 3 shops which were model railway dealers. Two are now hairdressers and the other a coffee shop.
Thanks for highlighting this issue Charlie and Lance and what was needed to fix it. Great to hear Accurascale stepped up to the mark. Your analysis of symptoms helps us all if we have problems.
Not sure Hattons come out of this looking top notch, which is a shame
indeed, somewhat lacking on the customer service front
Being the biggest retailer doesn’t necessarily make you the best! Regards, Charlie
If the gloves had to come off then trading standards would quote that goods have to be of merchantable quality?? Which seems that the 37s fail or at least the chips do?
Charlie, that opening sequence is a real hoot (at least when it isn't one of my locos). I was very impressed with your rational analyses of the problems and discussion of solutions. (I would hope that rewiring the two speakers in series would not be too difficult for someone who can solder.) This is much more helpful than simply trashing the seller or manufacturer--even if it is deserved. Cheers from Wisconsin !
Thanks Andrew, I shall probably remove the sugar clue speaker from my loco. Regards, Charlie
Most interesting video Charlie. I had similar decoder issues with my Accurascale 37 from Rails of Sheffield - mostly stoppy startyitis.
I sent it back, but ROS couldn't find a fault so they returned it. It then ran it for a while, but the loco started playing up again. So back it went, but since I had lightly weathered the loco and added a MODELU crew, ROS wouldn't provide the refund that I asked for. They did, however, offer to buy it back as a used model and I only ended up about £40 out of pocket. I then raised the matter of dodgy chips with Accurascale direct and used the magic phrase "in future I"ll stick with Bachmann', which elicited a generous offer on one of their remaining Loch Long 37s. Thus far it has run perfectly. I think the major retailers need to rethink their policies on refunds/repairs on weathered models when there are clearly fundamental faults with the products.
Many thanks Jon for your excellent comment. A pleasing outcome. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie, Although your video was only posted 3 hours ago I see that the issue has been resolved and 285 people have already commented before me so I assume that at least one of those comments has explained about the Consumer Rights Act works, how it trumps contracts i.e. Hatton's Ts&Cs and how Lance's contract is with Hattons and not Accurascale.
Accurascale seem to have done the decent thing but given your and Lance's experience with 4 locos it sounds as though there are fundamental design issues that need to be resolved if you are not going to keep having problems. You have done a fabulous job for Accurascale in diagnosing the issue and they now need to remedy the design. Great video as always and interesting to see how others deal with consumer issues plus model rail take.
Many thanks for an interest in comment. Yes this situation is a real shocker. Regards Charlie
Awesome, Charlie. I'm happy to hear that accurascale are stepping up to the footplate and sorting out Lance Class 37. WELL DONE ACCURASCALE, that's 1st class customer service. Big shout goes out to all involved. Hattons are a complete letdown in this case Charlie, and if I remember correctly, this is the 2nd loco you have done in your videos about a Hattons locomotive purchase.
Yes Gaz, this is the second disappointing incident with Hattons. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie, I've just watched a video by Mossend railway, he had the same issues kept derailing and parts falling of, he has removed sand pipes and now runs much better, hope this helps, keep up the great videos always look forward to them
Many thanks for the tip Simon. Regards, Charlie
Great video Chas yet again , I'll look forward to the result of the case of Accurascale and the faulty engine
Accurascale are replacing the defective decoder John. Regards, Charlie.
I agree with hattons stance. When I worked for a model shop we had customers return "faulty" locomotives that had been weathered, some at a professional level with the various common faults described in this video, and we'd send them off, or attempt to fix and we'd find they'd butched the electronics or had completely swapped the chips for non sound ones. One guy ended up with a fraud charge and 14 month suspended sentence for his efforts
I was astounded to realise that fitting the snow ploughs would cancel your warranty. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway problem is for every capable person, there's 5 who'll use half a tube of uhu glue for it and try to claim under warranty for the problems caused.
Hi Charlie……fascinating and very topical video. I too took delivery of an Accurascale Class 37 in Mid December (bought from my local dealer in Chelmsford). Its a fantastically detailed model with many excellent features, and so far its worked impeccably on my layout with no issues arising with either sound or motion. Fingers crossed that this situation continues. HOWEVER, I have also bought the Accurascale Manor Class, and again while I’m delighted with the model and its details, I too have had an issue with the sound. Out of the box it worked perfectly on my small ‘test’ layout for about an hour then suddenly the sound just stopped. No obvious reason, the motion continued as before, but the sound just died. No end of coaxing could persuade it to ‘sing’ again. I spoke to Accurascale who said they couldn’t help me because I’d not purchased it directly from them (!) and referred me back to Derails (the vendor I purchased it from). Dan from Derails was (as ever) very helpful and asked me to return it to them . He offered me a full refund or to send it back to Accurascale . Given the scarcity of this particular version (Torbay Manor with Late BR emblem) I chose to have it returned to Accurascale for checking. Obviously with the Festive Season intervention, I’m still awaiting its return, but I understand from Derails that its now on its way back to me and that Accurascale have replaced the decoder. I was very interested in your comments about the changes recommended to sound CV setting and indeed the speaker configuration. I wonder whether in my case the decoder amplifier blew up and that without your suggested changes, the thing will occur again. If this is indeed a fundamental fault in the sound set up, it seems to me that Accurascale need to publish some guidance on this to avoid a whole host of similar issues occurring with others. Of course, my experience and yours/Lance’s experience might be coincidental………..but your ‘impedance’ point is very well made. Interestingly, Richard at Roads & Rails has made a similar observation about the speaker set up in both the Manor Class and Class 37. I’ll look out for other responses you get here, and from Accurascale, in particular. Certainly, Accurscale have produced a wonderful looking set of models, but these electronic issues have the potential to undermine their excellent reputation. I do hope they find a way to resolve them appropriately. All the best, and thanks.
Many thanks for your comment Adrian. I shall probably remove my sugar cube speaker and resolve this issue. Regards, Charlie
I’ve already done that with my Class 37 and will do the same with my Manor Class on its return…..
Just going through some of the comments - this is interesting Adrian, I had exactly the same issue with my Manor. I had one replacement sent from Accurascale, but organised through the retailer who supplied the loco, but had to return this as the firebox flicker didn't work. I hope Accurascale manage to fix these issues as the models look fantastic.
@@jasonwebber1741 Hi Jason. Yes Accurascale did indeed replace the decoder and everything now seems to be working as expected. On your point on firebox flicker, that now only seems to work when you turn on the “Coal Shovelling” function (F8 ?). I can’t remember if it was always on with the old decoder, but it might have been. Maybe there’s a CV that needs to be changed there too? I’m very happy with the model, and to be fair, Accurascale actually phoned me to explain what they’d done, and although I could have done without the problem in the first place, I can’t be anything other than impressed with their customer service in resolving my issue. All the best with yours….
Hi Charlie, Happy New Year.
I had a similar issue regarding the sound file disappearing from my IRM (Accurascale) A-Class too. Sound was there for a few months then it stopped. I contacted IRM about this via email. They responded very promptly and asked me to send them the decoder (Loksound V5) serial number. They then sent me a new file to completely re-blow the decoder, thankfully I have a LokProgrammer too. I found them very easy and fair to deal with, also I did not buy direct and yet they still helped me out.
Thanks Ian, I found that service to be somewhat reassuring. Regards, Charlie
Great video Charlie. Some very interesting comments too. (Haven’t read them all). Thanks for sharing. Roy.
Thanks Roy, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Regards Charlie
Great upload Charlie, fancy upsetting Hattons so much they are closing down now 🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃
😢 I wonder how many local model railway shops have had to close because of pressure from these monster box shifters?
@@ChadwickModelRailway had many of pre order issues with hattons then you get that email saying they cant get stock etc, so stopped using them , use rails now for pre orders , they not going to be interested if anybody has brought of them recently and have issues like that 37 you highlighted
Hi Charlie, on our helix which uses an inner curve at 2nd radius we tested 2 Accurascale 37s and found that if you cant the curves, like on the real railway, the issue with the leading wheel derailing was cured. We used Westhill Wagon works shims just to slightly lift the outer rail. Keep up the great work!
An excellent proposal mate. Much appreciated, regards, Charlie
Great idea. I've not yet built my helix, so I'll adopt that cunning plan! Many thanks.
Hope you have seen the news today about Hattons . great video very informative and well put together . Watched a few of your videos recently . You have gained another subscriber . thanks Drew .
Thanks Drew, it’s great to have you on board. Regards Charlie
awesome video charlie i had a some probelm with my N class loco model With Sound and This Video helped me get my loco sound working properly i did cv63 and it work
Glad to be of help Christopher. Regards, Charlie
I have had issues with Hattons’ customer service in the past, despite (formerly) being a fairly regular customer. I also have an Accurascale class 37 001 which hasn’t been tested as yet. I purchased this one without a chip, so will definitely consult Roads and Rails prior to fitting sound! Thank you for the video.
Yes that’s a very good move Andy. Regards, Charlie
Well guys, You don't have to grumble about Hatton's anymore? They too, are fed up with trying to flog poor modern models (no matter how good they may look)? They are ceasing to trade?
What good are very expensive models that are not suitable for the average Hobbyist's layouts (or wallet)? Blame the manufacturers...
"Too fine of a standard, to be able to work as a model".. This is the problem nowadays? I wish that manufacturers would realize that they are building toys, not Mercedes Benz cars? They should always work, (the cars do...) even if the layout track (or road) is 50 years old? But to fall off of the track on such a minor rail level issue... Come on...?
If people stop spending money on all of this "highly accurate stuff" the manufacturers will start to take notice? Reliability counts far more than just "looks" or "sounds" alone?
Happy New Year, Charlie. An extremely useful and salutary video. My two Accurascale 37s are both non-sound DC versions. While I’ve not run them in yet, thanks to other issues with my layout at present, I fear some of my track work might suffer from the vertical curve misalignment issue. So, very many thanks for explaining that as something to watch out for. These technical ‘root cause troubleshooting’ videos are extremely useful for all of us, I’m sure.
I’m so pleased you found the video useful. Might I ask, does your 37 come with speakers? Regards, Charlie
Your 37s will be the units to tweak your track. If you tweak your track so that your 37s run flawlessly on your layout then I would say that any other loco should run just fine.
@@ChadwickModelRailway Neither is fitted with a speaker as I ordered the DCC ready versions.
However, one of them (37001) has the same problem of oil spilling onto the underside of the bogies as in the CZcams video posted by oorail about intermittent power loss problems.
Regards, Will
@@ChadwickModelRailwayHi Charlie - the non-sound (I.e., DCC ready) versions have the sugar cube speaker fitted. I am hopeful that the purchase of an ESU sound chip without fitting the “accurathrash” speaker will not result in a blown chip…
Another great video Charlie, and not that i was considering an Accurascale 37, but Im now even more convinced to save my money & fit a Hornby HM7000 sound decoder in my Bachmann and ViTrains 37's.
I just speak as I find. Good luck,
Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie. Brill video as usual. I had trouble with one of my 37s. The sound started and then shut down. Anyway the lads for Accurascale where at Pete Wartermans Making Tracks at Blakemere in Cheshire so off I went to see them. You could not wish to meet any people more helpful than them. They told me about CD 63 and it seems that has cured the problem. They also said that the V5 Locsound shuts the sound down to save any damage and that was happening to mine. It comes as no surprise to me that they have replaced Lances decoder as they are all genuine guys
I’m so pleased that they were helpful, Barry. Regards, Charlie.
This is a really good review to put out as I have found Accurascale a tad odd in their methods of coming to market and adding competition, I'm all for this of course over the long run.
Though they're currently style over substance and this is seen on multiple of occasions and we're all suckers for a shining thing.
Like any new brand they will learn of course, but I'm glad people are putting this out there as Hornby and Bachman take flack even on models that are top notch runners just because a rivet is out of place.....
Thanks again for the video. Very informative.
Thanks Rob, for such a sensible comment. Regards, Charlie
Thanks Charlie for another super video. I too have a helix and an Accurascale 37 and the same derailment issue. I will now study those vertical curves...... Turning to the retailer / refund matter in relation to Lance's locomotive, I think your Tesla analogy is spot on. If Lance was complaining about a paint issue then fair enough but the problem with the decoder is unrelated. If Lance is buying as a consumer then I suspect if he were to check (for the avoidance of doubt I am not giving advice) he will find that he has some remedies for the fault which looks on your analysis to arise from the speaker setup (I will be adjusting CV63 asap). I would have thought that that for reputational reasons both the retailer and manufacturer will want to get ahead of any further correspondence that Lance may send and get a new decoder in the post asap. Finally, I have had the sound cut out on my 37 for unexplained reasons but the decoder is still delivering sound. Absent adjusting CV63 it is probably on borrowed time. Your work may have saved a lot of people from a lot of heartache and cost. Thank you again.
Thanks Phil, you’ll be pleased to know that Accurascale have stepped up and will replace Lance’s Decoder. Regards, Charlie
That's great news Charlie. I checked CV63 today - it was set to 192. I have reset it to 150. Fingers crossed all will be well.
nice 👍 accurascale class 37 is one of the best reviewed models ever, a video about its weaknesses if always needed 😂 thanks charlie!
Thanks little Locos, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards, Charlie
Blimey, that was like an episode of Columbo, very interesting Charlie. Happy New Year, keep em coming. K
Thanks ZT it’s great to have you on board. Regards Charlie
A very interesting video, this, and in common with one of the other people that commented here, I too am in Canada and so order new locos with extreme care in case of problems. I, too, have had some issues with our friends at Hattons (6-axle dining coach with only 4 wheel sets fitted, anyone?) so tend to now lean toward the shop over in Sheffield. Given all of the hassle that both of you have had with your Accurascale 37s, I think I’ll be giving them a wide berth; it makes me a bit nervous as I have an 89 on pre-order, which is another Accurascale product. I don’t want to end up with a beautiful, but very expensive, static display piece!
I do understand your reluctance. Regards, Charlie
Fascinating stuff Charlie. I think the phrase your friend Lance is looking for is "these goods are not of merchantable quality". If the sound chip doesn't work then Hatton's must fix it. I would imagine that it is a component that can be replaced. If there is a manufacturing/design flaw then the manufacturer is responsible for fixing it but the retailer should facilitate that repair.
I'm pleased to report Lee, that Accurascale have immediately volunteered to replace Lance's decoder Free of Charge. Regards Charlie
Slight tangent but when you return an item to Hattons as I have had to several times, they would only reimburse for cheapest uninsured and unsigned for post - leaving me very nervous as to what would happen if it went missing? Also post office often want to know a value of what is being sent......
It seems to me that Hattons is perhaps a retailer to avoid. I’m a big fan of buying from and supporting our smaller/local retailers who give a much better service in all respects.
leestodart7014. No the retailer must fix nothing, it is not his Product , he bought it from the Manufacturer as you do when buying direct from the manufacturer , so no the only thing the retailer has to do is facilitate the repair. If it can't be done in subsequent time you as customer can claim a refund from the retailer you purchased from, the retailer has to claim a refund from the Manufacturer, and the Product has to be in the Original state as you purchased it. The Warranty doesn't run out, if you are in the process in time claiming repairs for a faulty product. In our country we also have policies that in the first half year of the purchase you can give the product back without any reason after the half year ,you as customer must proof that the product was faulty when you purchased it.BTW this not a warranty . Also you have a return right to give back the purchased Product for whatever reason, (in fact you don't need a reason)for 14 Days but this applies only for online purchases, the reason for that is you can't see the product beforehand . So before making claims of any sort read the small letters on that matter. And read the return and warranty policies and not buy something and than making false claims like the dude in the Video.BTW Any altering of the Product you loose all the rights like warranty , return policies or whatsoever
@@powertothebauer296 In the UK, Consumer Rights Act 2015 states that "...There is an implied condition that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality..." (satisfactory quality was previously referred to as merchantable quality).
The fault does not have to be apparent at the time of the sale as there is a requirement that the goods be durable. The fact that the sound chip does not function satisfactorily is not in dispute. As such this simply makes the quality of the goods unsatisfactory.
In the situation described in this video the contract exists between Lance and Hattons. Given that the goods are not of satisfactory quality, Lance is entitled to reject them and he would expect Hattons to repair or refund in full. The fact that he has weathered the loco does not diminish his rights under the “satisfactory quality” requirement. If he was relying on returning under the Distance Selling Regulations then there would probably be an expectation that the goods are returned in their original condition but that is not the situation here.
I am pleased to see that, as Charlie reports, Accurascale have stepped in.
Happy New Year Charlie and thanks for your very informative video in relation to the Class 37. It is good to know Accurascale are a company with excellent customer relations. It is a shame Hattons are not and your video has convinced me not to purchase from this supplier!
Great videos and all are informative but in your excellent way which is easy to listen to and the odd joke along the way! Not heard your favorite word this year yet. 'Prototypical'
Keep up the excellent work!
Many thanks Thomas, and best wishes to you for 2024. Regards Charlie
Very interesting video along with some very interesting comment’s too! Thanks for another great unbiased review in my opinion anyway, look forward to the next as ever, HNY to you.
Thanks Kevin, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards Charlie
Good video Charlie & Happy new year. I guess we are getting back to the 4 axle drive vs 6 axle drive argument. Going further back when Mainline released its 3 axle drive class 56 back in 1984 caused a fair few problems. Great haulage capacity / looked the part etc but when allied up with the finescale wheels they did have their moments. Model railways are all about compromise & somehow over the past few years the desire to make things millimetre perfect - cram on as much stuff / detail all at the expense of the basics such as road holding / couplings & good strong motors. . Its a endemic problem across the board with 00 , over engineered / over complicated stuff , the desire to dazzle soon loses its sheen when the derailments start & the reliance upon circuit boards & weedy wiring starts to fail.
The original Bachmann 37/4's i had where 4 axle drive & they where good, same with the Heljan 47. Then the Bachmann 66 arrived , running light engine it was fine , soon as a load was coupled to it the centre axle on each bogie just acted as a pivot that raised the leading wheel on each bogie that on perfect flat track was okay, anything slightly unlevel, off it came, same with the 70. Spent what seemed like a lifetime rebuilding the layout to get the trackwork sorted for these 2 locos to run round properly.
I was looking at buying a new 37 this xmas, but ive not been convinced by the Accurascale locomotives, got the mk5's & theyve been ok, few issues with the wheels on peco points but nothing altering the points hasnt cured. I normally only buy secondhand Lima gear of late, but i thought id treat myself to a shiny new addition , went for the Bachmann class 70 in colas instead. I think Accurascale have jumped in both feet first when a more subtle approach to locomotives would have been better to build up the knowledge / build ethos. I gather the Cavalex 56 & 60 are 4 axle drive locomotives which is a interesting departure .
As for Hattons , its not the company of old, owned by a hedge fund thats all about the money. not bought anything off them this year , all gone Rails way instead. Theyve always been sticklers for the line that goods have to be returned as in sold state, moment you add anything etc its classed as used , pretty pedantic stuff when dealing with the decoders etc but thats how they are.
Many thanks for such an interesting comment. The breakthrough in detailing, it’s not necessarily an advantage. Regards, Charlie
Interesting issues you've experienced, I hope in future this won't be an issue. Haven't heard of similar issues to other models.
Hattons respons was a bit like I expected. They could have suggested getting a new decoder, these are not hardwired, and with the quick fix from Accurascale that would solve all.
Thomas,
Yes Thomas, it’s not very reassuring when you have to experience these negative responses from manufacturers and suppliers. I'm pleased to report that Accurascale have immediately volunteered to replace Lance's decoder Free of Charge. Regards, Charlie
Happy New Year Charlie! It is good to hear that Accurascale took care of Lance. One would think Hattons could test a new unit, the pull the shell, send Lance the working chassis for him to place his weathered shell on with the intention that he would return the faulty chassis. Then Hattons could return it to the manufacturer for replacement/repair. Thus keeping a paying customer. A loyal following of paying customers do pay the bills. I have seen this same vertical curve issue with my Broadway Limited Imports O-16.5 On30 2-8-0s. Though the driver axles are sprung, the frame is solid thus a pair of drivers can lift up over the rails. Most of the time it is a dip in the rails on a curve. A little shim under the rails usually corrects that issue.
Thanks DK, for an interesting suggestion. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie, great video as ever! I love all the detail that's being achieved by Accurascale, but I'm naturally wary of diving all in financially. This was a great video demonstrating issues, highlighting other issues, but at least showng Accurascale will do what they can to help. Time will tell on improvements to quality control and technology capabilities.
Your reviews are clearly valued by a huge community, and in true Charlie style, straight to the point with research for potential solutions. Couldn't ask for more.
And so, since this came out Hattons decide to close down. Another case for Charlie?
Cheers for now, and let's get that 100k!!
Many thanks Edward, that’s very kind of you to say so. Regards, Charlie
As always thanks for a balanced honest video, whilst most people agree the accurascale models are breath taking in their detail there’s been to many people on other sites moaning about quality of finish, poor running, issues with decoders. I have given up with my 37 it’s sitting on the side as a very expensive static model I actually wished I never bought it. As you say we live and learn 😃 Happy New Year
An interesting comment, however, you didn’t mention what was wrong with it. Regards Charlie
What kind of issue are you having with it?
I’m waiting on my accurascale 37 with all the bells and whistles it’s due later this year. Seeing it’s not a cheap model but it looks so good and the write up sells it to me. Do I accept the model or if it doesn’t do what is said on the box return for a refund? Again Charlie your CZcams videos are exceptional 😊😊
Happy New Year, Charlie.
You are spot on with regards to amplifier and speaker impedance. Running into two ohms will cause the amplifier to overheat and eventually fail, which is probably what has happened to Lance's 37 and others in this comments section. Accurascale may not be aware of their fundamental mistake, or they have just hoped that they will get away with it. Reducing the volume will only delay the inevitable, and doesn't change the issue. Rewiring the speakers in series would prevent the problem, but the overall volume would be less. I suspect that more and more of the decoders in these 37's and any other locos wired the same will be failing sooner or later. ESU, quite rightly, would point out that the specified impedance has not been correctly matched to the speakers, which would void any warranty. Accurascale should change the wiring a.s.a.p or risk bad publicity from more and more returns and complaints. Shame.
All sounds good, but the whole PCB and speaker setup was designed by ESU.
Many thanks for the excellent comment. In time, I will simply remove the sugar cube speaker and bring the volume back up. Regards, Charlie
Happy New Year Charlie, very interesting video, glad to see the manufacturers are working to fix these issues however the issue in regards to distributor rules is a curly one. To help solve future issues manufacturers should possibly consider sending the prototypes to people like your self for vigorous testing on a real layout rather than a test track.
An interesting proposal. I must confess there are so many reviews of this loco that appear to be faultless. Regards, Charlie
Hi Charlie, Happy New Year from across the pond. Had a real kick , was watching a movie made in England and saw one of your yellow nose locos, cool to see it life size. Usually only see them on your videos. I won't even comment on return policies cuz I get really mad at companies that don't stand behind their products.
Many thanks for your comment and it’s great to have you on board. Regards, Charlie
I'll partially defend Hattons response here. Firstly, lets clarify, when you buy something, your contract is with the retailer and this is where you should return faulty goods. The retailer can be go-between to the manufacturer for repairs etc.
Lance had weathered and altered the loco at the time he asked for a refund, I don't see how Hattons are hiding behind T&Cs here as these are standard and expected T&Cs agreed to when purchasing, they were correct to refuse the full refund. I didn't take from that response that Hattons were refusing further repair or replacement of an individual component, only refund of the entire item. The only thing I would criticise in their response was to not make it clear that further repair was still an option.
Many thanks for your comment, however, accurascale have offered to exchange the defective decoder. Regards, Charlie
A model train must be able to run around a track reliably with all advertised features working to spec. Anything else is unacceptable no matter how wonderful it looks as it is not of merchandisable quality.
Valuable video..I have subscribed.
Thanks Lucy, it’s great to have you on board. Regards Charlie
Fascinating video Charlie. I received mine just after Christmas (same model as yours). Mine also had oil all over one of the bogies and whilst I was cleaning it one of the head code covers fell off so must have also been loose like yours. I didn’t notice at first and later found it on the floor thankfully undamaged! Mine had not had CV63 adjusted so also suffered the cut out problem. I remedied this within the first hour of running so hoping it has not done any lasting damage. Only other issue is one of the buffers points slightly to the left which is annoying now I have spotted it. Apart from all that it looks great, runs beautifully and sounds fantastic. I have at least one ‘vertical curve on a curve’ but it seems to cope ok in my case.
That is good news Matthew, I’d give it a run for a couple of hours just to be on the safe side. Regards Charlie.
I have had a few issues like this with the new products. Calling it ou the only way! Well done! Greetings!
Many thanks for your support on this one. Regards, Charlie
Charlie, you are far more tolerant and easy going, than I am. Decoder problems have driven me crazy for years. Occasionally , they result in the loco being thrown across the room, which surprisingly, doesn't do anybody any good. My model trains were supposed to be a relaxing hobby in my retirement. DCC will probably be the death of me someday. I am starting to long for the more simpler days of good old regular DC, but once you've tasted the advantages of DCC, it is hard to go back. Now, I am going to take a couple of long relaxing deep breaths, and revisit my Southern Pacific 4-8-8-4 cab forward, and figure out why it's speed is so d#@m slow, and why it hesitates so bad. I think the problem is in the tender were the electrical pickups are, and I think it just needs more weight. I am waiting for the day when they perfect on-board rechargeable batteries for N-scale, so pickup problems, track cleaning, etc., will magically disappear. Until then, I may take up gardening........ Thanks for the humor and pleasant videos.
I do feel your pain. It’s supposed to be a therapeutic hobby! Regards, Charlie
Hi again Charlie
Another entertaining and informative session.
Nice to hear honest assessments without fear or favour.
I have heard of issues with their class 55 Deltics also . From what I have read accurascale seem to be very reasonably priced for what is on offer ? Maybe quality control comes at a price?
Happy new year mate and many thanks for your efforts. Love the way you analyze the problems step by step.
Regards Howard
Thanks Howard, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Have a great 2024, regards, Charlie
Just a quick follow up.
Sitting reading a review in a reputable model railway magazine dated late last year.
Accurascale class 37 was given a raving revue. Faultless in all categories.
Not the magazine's fault. Obviously their supplied example was just that.
To me however it does make a bit of a mockery of such reviews to which a lot of us do rely on.
Manufacturers are obviously going to go over the proposed offering with a very fine tooth comb
Long before it's delivered for assessment. Thank goodness for people like Charlie and All you others
Involved in our wonderful hobby that keep us reliably informed by sharing your successes and more importantly I guess, your failures.
Maybe these magazine's should arrive unexpectedly at the retailer, select One of the proposed examples for review, Off the shelves
In the box and go from there. This would be far more accurate, including bits falling off as unpacked Up to running in .
Thanks to Charlie and you people I now know what to avoid, now and in future.
Keep modeling.
Howard
Thanks for the great information about the class 37 and helix and the central bogies rock I have the same derailment issues to sought out😊
Good luck mate, you might need it! Regards Charlie
I knew your Anne Robinson wink would pay off - now you're doing Watchdog style videos, it's a perfect fit. 😂 Great work and an excellent video..
Thanks Mark, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, I am glad to hear that the company volunteered to replace Lance, 's decoder free of charge. But for future reference have a look at The Consumer Rights Act 2015.
Thanks Buff, your by no means the 1st to mention about the consumer rights act. Regards, Charlie
CRA will not help, the item was modified outside of the manufacture spec so will not be entitled to a refund however hattons should have advised to send it back so they could get the decoder replaced which is in manufacture spec and had failed@@ChadwickModelRailway
made my mind up though, i'm not going to invest in one, i think i will pass till atleast they fix all issues. I bought the nuclear flask trucks and took 2 month by accurascale without even fixing it so had to ask for a refund, luckily i didn't modify it so shop was happy to refund me
Hi Charlie. Thank you for a fascinating and insightful video. I have one of these 37s but have not yet had time to run it in, so I will get to it next week. I will be putting in a helix so I will definitely watch out for the vertical curve challenge.
As for Hattons … a question I ask is whether or not it is unreasonable or unexpected for a modeller to weather or fit figures. I would argue absolutely not. The restrictions on returning as supplied essentially tells the modeller that they can make no cosmetic changes until the warranty has expired. These are cosmetic changes - they should have no bearing on warranty coverage of electronics or mechanical failure within the warranty period.
The price of engines (and rolling stock) have become ridiculous. The least we should expect is reasonable service.
You’ll be pleased to know Ed, that Accurascale will replace Lance’s decoder free of charge. Regards, Charlie.
Hi Charlie, Another great vid. My 37 has dim headcode boards. Told by AC that it was designed to be that way. Running seems good as does that on my 55. I will check the CV63 volume, didn’t know about that, thanks for the tips. Service response not so good from AC. They promised a new coupling on my 55 which kept releasing when more than 3 cars were attached, 3months ago, nothing yet. Keep up the excellent work. Steve.
Thanks for letting me know Steve, and don’t let them off the hook. Regards, Charlie
Yeah, a good result Charlie, no doubting what bad publicity can do eh? I’m extremely pleased that you’ve done this, it’s of benefit to all of us. Thanks.
So pleased that you’ve had an interesting EW. Regards, Charlie
Glad to hear that Accurascale have accepted their responsibilities however seems a shame that such great looking models from a relatively new manufacturer seem to have issues and not just hearing this about their class 37.
As for Hattons, if Accurascale had not stepped in, I think yor friend would have had a very strong case under the Sale of Goods Act (1979I think). Hattons are the retailer and therefore responsible for either repair, replacement or refund. Their own terms do not over-ride their obligations under the laws of England and Wales. The fact that Lance has painted the model and fitted a model driver in the cab cannot be argued as affecting the fact that Hattons have supplied a defective item and well within its reasonably expected operating life.
I have had this sort of argument with various retailers and products but not model railway related. Not lost an argument yet so pretty sure of my ground here!
On a lighter note, my old Triang class 37 from the late 1960s that I inherited from my late father is still running well. Plenty of sounds but not from any onboard loudspeakers, no derailments and the only chips involved are from over fifty years of playwear!
Many thanks for an excellent comment John. Stay safe, regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailwayQuite a shame as I was thinking about saving up for one of their Irish outline locos being Irish myself. Guess if I was to get an Irish loco Murphy models it is.
Great video. The defective chip replacement (not the whole engine) is of course the right thing for Accurascale to do. The incorrect speaker sizing/wiring is a basic error albeit with significant repercussions, but a relatively easy fix for Accurascale if they are listening to you/others. The likely bigger issue is the defective Accurascale bogie design which you have highlighted and exists on many of their models. It needs reengineering. Easy for them to blame poor track work and indeed the issues with helix kits that break each circle into 8 sections creates significant challenges to avoid your vertical curve. I’ve never, however, had a problem with Bachman or Hornby. Great piece of factual and honest analysis. Reading all these rave you tube reviews with no mention of derailments, I was beginning to think I was just a poorly skilled amateur modeller !!
I must confess, I do find it astounding that people who do these reviews can’t seem to find these problems! Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway I do wonder if some of these reviews are made by people getting a freebie?
Hi Charlie, Thank you for sharing this with us. I’ve had a very similar problem with the ESU decoder on a Helijan Classs 45 purchased for Christmas. I will be returning my loco and chip for inspection. In honesty I’ve had all sorts of problems with ESU chips and I’m reluctant to use them anymore. Your comments about the sound dropping out and the loco hardly moving are exactly what I have, although I have no sound whatsoever and a very unresponsive Class 45 on my hands. Thanks again I hope to get mine replaced soon.
Thanks for your comment Andrew. Please remember the ESU decoders have a two year warranty. Regards, Charlie
Thanks Charlie for an informative video. I also was awaiting my Accurascale Class 37, BR Green with split head-codes ordered in 2022. It arrived in November ordered from Locomotion models. I noticed one of the head-code lenses/frame/number was missing and found it in the plastic clam-shell wrap. Upon testing it at my club (using an ECoS command system), we could not get the main front lights to turn on, and it kept de-railing at a set of points, inconveniently located under a scenic mountain.
Long story short, it is the plastic sand pipes under the bogies that are catching on the point-work or indeed anything slightly proud of the rail surface. I contacted Locomotion asking for help on how to turn on the lights and the other issues, they couldn't give me any tips but suggested returning it to them. In the interim, i checked the back-to-back measurements which were within tolerance, but noticed, looking through the missing head-code lens, there was indeed a light, a surface mounted LED not very brightly illuminated. Yes lights (front and tail) were coming on but so dim, you had to be in total darkness to see them. Success! However not all lighting functions seem to work on my NCE DCC system. There's more investigating to do.
The outcome? I've decided not to send it back yet, but to look for the CV setting for LED brightness and adjust that. I've downloaded the Loksound v5 instructions (its only 116 pages!) and am working my way through. I haven't snipped off the annoying plastic sand pipes yet in case I do have to send it back.
My overall assessment? It's a lovely looking loco, so smooth to run. Sound is quite muted (thanks for the tip about the CV master sound value, I wouldn't have known otherwise) and the cold start function is disappointingly quiet. The model appears over-engineered and very complex to master, and for around $500 AUD, I shouldn't be having to faff around to get it to work properly and not snag on points. By contrast, I have three Hornby Twin Track Sound loco models that performed perfectly right out of the box, giving me a lot of running pleasure. So, I don't feel I've had value for money. This isn't the first time I've had issues from an expensive loco model ordered online. I'm thinking twice about ordering anything else as it's a long way to send it back from Perth, Western Australia.
Thanks for posting the link to the West Camel exhibition, it was great to see.
Kind regards,
Angus Stewart
Many thanks Angus for your excellent comment. Of course your situation is exacerbated by the geography. Regards, Charlie
Great stuff Charlie and very valuable points you raised. On the Hattons’ issue these are models and we’re modellers and this is the business they’re in. How long should you wait before you make non-performance related changes to enhance the appearance on something you want to look in-keeping with your modelling? I can see the point about the refund however that doesn’t negate the fact that the loco needs to work properly and Hattons are responsible for that without doubt. As for the speaker impedance problem I can’t believe a modern day manufacturer has made such a rookie mistake. And the idea that the ‘user’ then has to make the CV adjustment to compensate is disappointing to say the least. In my experience ESU does a good job of documenting their products and it’s clear in the LokSound 5 instructions (section 6.9.1) how speakers should be wired based on their impedance. Enough of all that, I enjoyed the West Camel show last weekend and it was a pleasure to meet you and chat.
Thanks Steve, I’m so pleased that you enjoy the video. However, it’s far more important that you enjoy the show. Best wishes, regards, Charlie
@@gppsoftware Thanks for the comments, the warranty issue is always a thorny one. As for how products come to market, the trend of pre-ordering obviously limits risk to manufacturers and that may mean we get finely detailed models in the UK market that, in my opinion, have been missing in previous years. The instance you reference about the 8-pin socket is interesting. I spent time in the US and found the NMRA standards very helpful especially when they’re followed (!j). Anecdote follows… I once followed a DCC sound conversion project in Model Railroader, problem was while the sound was brilliant the author hadn’t checked the stall current of the motor. So, it sounded great but stopped moving with 15 cars (wagons) attached. The chip had a .75 amp ‘fuse’ in-built so the motor-side failed but the sound was fine. In the end I went for the dual decoder option and put in a 1 amp motor-only decoder alongside the sound chip. It’s one of my best runners to this day and (not to mention) it’s in a rare “Halloween” Southern Pacific livery, so I love it!
Some of us dont have time to trawl the forums amd stay up to date on which models and runs are experiencing issues, so videos like this are great. Thanks Charlie.
Thanks Tim, I’m so pleased that you found the video useful. Regards Charlie
I thoroughly enjoyed your video. Although I live in the U.S., the vertical curve discovery was a very interesting piece of detective work. As far as the model is concerned, at this price point, you deserved much better.
Thanks Mike, I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting.
Regards Charlie
Having read a few of the comments I am now wondering if I should cancel my order with Accurascale for a loco I have pre ordered, this is VERY worrying because I have always looked for quality and reliability, it seems we have a BIG reliability problem. Oh dear just when I was starting to believe that we have a manufacturer that is second to none. I am lost for words. Thank you Charlie for bringing these issues to our attention.
You’re most welcome Sam, perhaps it’s buyer beware. Regards, Charlie
Interesting experience with your class 37. I have had similar experiences and my findings may help you and other modellers suffering from similar problems.
My helix has an inner track laid with Peco code 100 track having a radius on centre line of just 11.5" (290 mm) and an average gradient of 4.4%. I had not realised until I laid this that all curved track on a gradient involves twisting the track. The inner rail is shorter than the outer rail but rises by the same amount. Thus any 4 wheel truck with rigid axles can only ever be resting on 3 wheels. Short wheelbases and the vertical flexibility of pin-point axle bearings minimise the problem, but the class 37 benefits from neither of these. Inevitably the problem arises at a point where smooth running is locally disturbed by track anomalies, and particularly by local apparently minor changes in rail gradient. My helix is festooned with slivers of 10, 20 and even 40 thou plasticard to keep each rail as free of vertical anomalies as possible. This was painstaking work but it has been successful. I can now run reliably all my 0-6-0 tank engines together with small Prairies, Ivatt 2-6-2s, all my dmus and all the shorter wheelbase bogies and trucks without problems. It was worth the effort although getting it right first time rather than having to correct everything later would have saved several weeks work.
Thank you Graham for such an enlightening comment. However, it doesn’t hide the fact that everything else runs through my two helix smoothly. I clearly need to do some work. Regards, Charlie
Interesting stuff. Your detail always astounds me. I know it’s been sorted out but I can see Hatton’s point of view about a weathered loco. It is modified. What I would have expected was for them directly or via the manufacturer to offer to replace the chip. That would have been a good compromise
At least Accurascale are replacing the defective decoder Damian. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway would have been nice if Hatton’s negotiated this as part of their customer service otherwise why use retailers
I feel bad now that I hear Hatton’s is closing down. Shame to lose one of the few even if they had some issues
Happy new year Charlie! This is a very interesting video indeed. The last bit was the most interesting to me. 4 ohm impedance speakers in parallel as you mentioned give a result of 2 ohms where in series would become 8 ohms. From memory to get the maximum efficiency the output impedance of the amplifier should match that of the load so it looks like either configuration is sub optimal but a parallel speaker configuration is more likely to increase the amp current at a given volume resulting in possible failure of the amp. My memory is from knowledge gleaned over 40 years ago but I would have hoped that this is basic knowledge for people of my era and education but maybe progress might have forgotten a few fundamentals from the days of manual design etc, these things can and do happen, certainly at my previous place of work. Anyway at least Accurascale have offered to replace the failed decoder for Lance and that's good news as they listen. As for the dealer refusing to honour the warranty this seems like a general thing in the T's and C's of a lot of retailers of all sorts of goods that to a degree I can understand but there are realistic limits. I do take my hat off to Accurascale for picking this up though as at a guess some manufacturers may be less bothered. As for the derail on the helix it looks like Accurascale are very tight with tolerances that may be great for accuracy but not so good on some layout configurations like your helix. At least the manufacture is now aware of this 'foible' and can take this into account for future designs and tweaks to existing designs. Once again a very informative video Charlie as I have zero experience with DCC and I'm as rusty as an old car sat on a beach for 40 years on electronics.
Thanks Anthony, for sharing your views. Regards, Charlie
Happy new year Charlie, Interesting you mentioned these, I received my Class 37 only 2-3 weeks back and I too found a few things that weren't up to standard, One of my covers on the top of the engine hud had fallen off due to the glue failing. I've found the coupling buffer connector that slots into the chassis to be very flimsy as well (Using Hunt Couplings), The silver part of my steps had come off which required re-glueing as well.
Taking into consideration it takes such a long time to import stuff here to Australia, I've just opted to repair it myself and live with it. It's disappointing as I've seen nothing but amazing reviews on all of these loco's.
Yes Codi, these things are disappointing. However, at least Accurascale have volunteered to replace lances decode free of charge. Regards, Charlie
I agree with your take on Hattons, nothing has been done that would cause the issue with the sound chip plus Accurascale seems to accept there is an issue.
Yes, it’s hardly acceptable behaviour by the biggest retailer! Regards, Charlie
Yes I've had couple off sherry s tonight obviously we drink too much in Scotland and drive trains! I like your videos very informative, it's just finding the time ⏲ nightmare at the moment.
Thanks Ian , I’m so pleased you find the channel interest. Regards, Charlie
Thanks Charlie - a really useful video.
Thanks Christopher, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards Charlie
Really informative video, Charlie, thanks for posting. Sketchy customer service all round, I would say. As others have said, Hattons should not have hidden behind T's&C's for Lance, they should have just facilitated Accurascale changing the decoder. But, reading some of the other comments, Accurascale state that if you bought the product from a third party retailer, they won't help. This is a bad look for both companies here, imo. How much grief is your helix vertical curve issue going to be to fix? All the best.
You’ll be pleased to know Nig, that Accurascale have stepped up and will replace Lance’s decoder free of charge. Regards, Charlie
I find the fact that Accurascale supply both direct and to retail businesses very odd and to wash your hands of a product they made if bought from a retailer they supplied the product to even odder
Great video Charlie. I think Hattons should have offered to replace the faulty part as they were unwilling to refund because your mate did what everyone does to give more realism to their model, having this attitude with customers who spend a lot of money with them is a fast way to shoot yourself in the foot & lose said customers & properly lose a few potential new ones also!! Good for Accurascale for coming to the rescue though, even with their problems, that will be a BIG plus to their standing in the model community 👍
@@gppsoftware Yes I agree
Lance was never getting a refund after weathering it. Test a new model properly first. There's a lesson.
Wise words, gentlemen, many thanks for your comments. Regards, Charlie
@@modelrailwaynoob The model was tested and working when Lance received it. The lesson actually is that this is the second time Hattons has “featured” in one of Charlie’s of videos and shown a flimsy understanding of basic consumer rights and protections. Hattons T&Cs do not override statutory consumer protection and it is perfectly reasonable to weather rolling stock. I was sad at Hattons demise and still feel very sorry for the individual staff. However, sometimes businesses reap what they sow. We do not need comparatively large retailers that do not treat their customers well: the minimum legal expectation of Hattons is that it should have offered to repair the model. It is good that Accurascale stepped in, but it does have a brand to protect and build.
@christianwall7181 Lance was never getting a refund from Hatton's or any whether retailer. From memory, that's what he asked for. If he was asking for a repair then he should get one and he did.
Very timely video Charlie. I've been waiting for a 'Dutch' version of this 37 which should be arriving 1st Quarter this year. Given that I'm rebuilding the layout shortly and won't be able to really test it should it actually arrive 1st quarter. I certainly don't fancy having any problems with it several months down the line...as it were. I'm in Germany but I've ordered from Hattons because their delivery and service for international customers has always been excellent, but then again, I've never had to send anything back yet! I experienced some problems with a previous Accurascale wagon order (ARC box wagons) and it did put me off them, but the 37 looked so good I decided to give them another try. But I've decided I don't want the aggro. It will upset me enormously if having paid a handsome sum for the thing I have to incur expensive return costs etc, which may or may not solve the problems anyway. If the operating tolerances are that fine it doesn't bode well, especially when the Heljans and Dapols I have deal with everything I've put together so far. I'm not nearly as advanced in modelling as you, or others that comment on here. I probably won't have the ability to resolve these issues myself.I'm going to cancel my order immediately.
Yes, it’s very disturbing situation. Regards, Charlie
Personally I'm not into the class 37 however I do have a few SD40-2 with the tri-axle trucks, and this video certainly gave me some points to examine closer in regards to derailments.... Thank you Charlie.
Hi, shall be checking, mine out tomorrow, Marcel, on a piece of glass. Regards, Charlie
I think your friend should contact Accurascale to get the chip replaced. Afterwards he can either keep it or move it on.
You’ll be pleased to know John, that Accurascale replaced the decoder immediately. Regards, Charlie
My comment is about the details. Hatton's did not say that they would not continue to attempt to fix the locomotive, only that they would not refund it (which is what he requested). Continue the conversation and see what they can do.
That’s no longer the case, as Hattons are no longer trading. Regards, Charlie
Evening Charlie 🇩🇪 calling
I have the same issue with my Heljan DP2 and out of my good collection of diesels from most brands ( except your 37 ) it is the only loco to give derailment issues
Excellent vid btw
Thanks John, I must dust off my DP 2, and check it out. Regards, Charlie
Charlie, Happy New Year.
Wow, what a bit of palava. It sounds like maybe these 37 locos were a Friday Afternoon job, or a Monday Morning job, after a big weekend partying.
It is very disappointing when a very anticipated product does not live up to expections, and there are lessions there for us all.
I have had delay issues in Australia with a Class 81 loco, that I pre-ordered back in 2017, and am still waiting. First it was production issues, and getting the design right, then paint colours, then Covid, then wiring mistakes, and now no ESU Chips. It will hopefull come after Chinese New Year in February. Then I will really have to look closely, and make sure I don't have similar issues to you. I feel for you.
Cheers, and thank you for sharing such a tale, Stay safe, Michael
Thanks Michael, for an interesting comment. I do feel for you with your geographical issues. Regards, Charlie
On the ESU Loksound 5, it does permit combinations of speakers between 4 and 16ohms. Page 31 of the manual. I've got a 4ohm and an 8ohm in series and it seems fine to me in a Bachmann 37.
Considering the entire pcb in these locomotives is an ESU design i think i’ll go with the experts
Yes, but in parallel they’re roundabout, two ohms, below the required threshold. Regards, Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailwayI think you have the answer about Hattons, they're going out of business.
CHARLIE !
Back to Back gauges will NOT work properly unless fully inserted between the wheels. Which is why they come with axle slots in them. But you have a second issue, your using old pre NEM code 100 track intended for use with old code 100 wheelsets that had thicker flanges, hence a SMALLER back to back measurement !!!! But all the stock I can see on your layout appears to be produced for Code 75 track, so has thinner flanges with a slightly larger/wider Back to Back measurement. Indeed the square block B to B gauge seen is I suspect a proper code 75 gauge !!!
Having said that, rolling stock & locos must have their B to B measurements within ONE thousandth of an inch of the Code 75 requirement. Problems of mixing code 100 & code 75 products which have two different sets of measurements are virtually un-resolvable ! These issues were foreseen and mentioned in the modelling press back in the late 1980's soon after the NEM Conferences technical changes for European outline models were published. But many today, seem to have either forgotten the NEM Conference and its resultant actions, or indeed are too young to have ever known of its existence. And that sadly includes newer manufacturers !!!
I do take your point, as I mentioned in my previous comment. As for the slot in the back to back gauge, that’s not always the case. If you remove the drive wheels, often you can’t get a back-to-back gauge in, due to the gear being in the way!
Hi Charlie, thanks for this very informative video. I have an Accurascale 37 and it has given no problems so far, ditto my Deltic though they have each only had about two hours running time so far. But, as I live in the US returning either would be a real PITA, so I contacted Accurascale to ask about the parallel wiring issue (and also about the motor commutator issue, but that could be another video). Their response, from Patrick Conboy, is that the parallel wiring was at the recommendation of ESU! They did not respond to the commutator issue, beyond saying that anyone with any issue only had to contact them. So it would be interesting to get a comment from ESU on the impedance question.
Hi Tom, I think if you’re asking Accurascale to admit fault, it’s not gonna happen. The community accepts that those speakers should’ve been wired in series. Regards, Charlie
Nice one Charlie - they don’t like it up em. Happy new year 🎉
Thanks DB, have a great New Year. Regards, Charlie