SOLVING RUGBY'S ISSUES | Why the Answer is ALWAYS France
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- čas přidán 28. 09. 2023
- So ANOTHER English professional club has just gone bust. The national team is struggling and the public are losing interest. Why are some countries on their knees and others thriving? And what can we learn from France???
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As a Frenchman I'm really sad about what's happening to English rugby and the historical clubs disappearing. I really hope it will get well as soon as possible.
Quite agree with you Bastien
Come on England 🏴
France 🇫🇷 needs your clubs to stay strong for a good level of rugby 🏉 around here
As another frenchman, I m not sad.
@@floriantosoni2444moi non plus..allez les bleus🇫🇷💪🇫🇷
@@floriantosoni2444Idiot !
As an Irish fan there’s a small part of me that thinks France winning and even France dominating the next few competitions would be good for the sport, would show that if you want results and to be taken seriously use their model. Multiple pro divisions, relation/promotion and mostly put the money in
For the same reason Ireland winning would be beneficial. Smart centralized management can work too. France and Ireland in different ways doing great things.
@@user-fw3le4xf3jStill trolling Ireland. On every video? What do you get out of it? Seriously.
@@user-fw3le4xf3jlol yeah you want that cuz you hate Ireland
My heart goes to the Bokke, but if not them. It would be amazing if Ireland or France win it
@@user-fw3le4xf3jyup...i think im going to take the dog for a walk when that game is on ...and I dont even have a dog.
I played rugby in France in a public boarding school between 15 to 18 years old. Had to buy the shoes, but that was it. The coach was also the principal educational adviser of the school and the discipline was made with head butts. One of the best times of my life
Tim for president of world rugby! Show your support by giving him a like and a sub.
😂
Melting the South African heart, aka Eeg Master
And JB to take over the RFU!
I'm french so i love to complain about everything, but i have to admit that the french rugby system is brillant, i don't know if you know that in french you need to have 17 jiff ("joueur issu de la filliere de formation" or player from the formation system) in average in your team or you'll get penalties on points or money, so almost every team in top 14 has a good center of formation. In addition i think the post important thing in france is the pro d2 and the systeme of rise and fall in top 14. In your premiership when the two bottoms teams are sure that they will not play anything in europe or in their league they stop playing but in france because you can fall in 2nd division so the bottoms teams has to play and there is challenge in prod2 because if you win you can go in top 14 so there is a point in finshing 1st. In addition the 2nd divisons is a laboratory where young players play veteran players and they learn with these old fellas, so when they come in the top 14 they aren't lost because the old fellas told them how to play. And finally teams like toulouse ( i'm from toulouse so i know this club better) because of what i told you before send a lot of young players in pro d2 in order for them to rise their levels for instance baptiste germain (which is a future good player) has been playing in biarritz last year before coming back this summer and in biarritz i think played about 30 games and he improves his boxing skills and now is quite a good player.
Sorry if it is not perfect english and have fun in france for this world cup rugby
Your English is MUCH better than my French! Thanks for such an interesting post. You're so right about the effect of Pro D2 and the threat of relegation
Men it took us so many time and still we can lose it at home! Will be desastrous!
Very well laid out, perfectly explained. English my third language.
Irish system still better. The IRFU should’ve bought out London Irish. We need a fifth team because of all the talent we have from the provinces at underage level.
@@johannatom688but they didn’t because they were never going to.
I see the flights back to Dublin on the 16th are all fully booked out………
Very interesting video. We mustn't forget that 6 or 7 years ago, everyone was mocking our rugby. How do you explain the success?
- The existence of a ProD2 and "national" divisions that allow clubs to develop (I'm thinking in particular of clubs from metropolitan areas like Lyon, Bordeaux or the Parisian clubs that weren't in the first division 30 years ago).
- Today, there is a balance between clubs from major cities (Paris, Racing, Lyon, Bordeaux, Toulon, Montpellier and of course Toulouse) and those from medium-sized towns (Perpignan, Bayonne, Clermont, La Rochelle, etc.). Imagine PremierRugby with Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham alongside Bath, Leicester and Exeter. Wouldn't that be tempting?
- Club football here means a lot less. A city like Bordeaux knows that it will never be able to compete at the highest European level with Barcelona, Arsenal, Madrid, etc. in football. As a result, French cities find it easier to invest in rugby. In Bordeaux, for example, UBB is supplanting Girondins FC.
- The major change is the willingness of professional clubs to invest in academies, whereas 10 years ago these same clubs were content to bring in foreign players. The French federation has thus 'privatised' its academies, and this is the most spectacular change. We're starting to see the results today.
"Rugby's hard, rugby's tough that's why we love it " !
Absolutely spot on Tim. Let's hope the message gets through to the organizers.
The french military rugby team is also world champion btw
Another feather in the french cap
Frenchman here.
Part of the explanation also has to do with this “golden generation” of players who won the u20 RWC in 2018 and 2019.
French TV has just released a fascinating documentary about the rural communities where dupont, Jelonch and Aldritt are from. It’s called “premières danses”, which you might translate as “first round of dancing”. It reflects on the u19 French championship of 2013 where this generation emerged. These players come from modest & rural backgrounds where they were sometimes mocked by the chic urban teams like Toulouse. It’s hard to summarize in just a few lines but it’s really interesting and revealing.
It reminds me of the videos we see about some NZ players (like the Barrett family) who come from a farming background.
I’ve watched the documentary. It’s really good and does a good job explaining the deep rooted culture of rugby in that part of France.
When you consider that France just won the last three under 21 world cup I think we are seeing a more structural development than just a golden generation.
Also keep in mind that in this team you also have a lot of guys coming from big cities like Toulouse (Ntamak, Cros, Aldegheri), Paris (Macalou, Woki, Flament, Jalibert, Fickou, Danty ), Montpelier (Wardi, Vincent), Lyon (Couilloud) so things are not so simple either
If anyone is still reading these comments (which are really excellent and show what a good community Tim has here), I think I've found the link to "premières danses":
czcams.com/video/ixKzwD8kzoE/video.html
Can I ask you why you want to create a kind of rivalry between urban and rural communities for rugby ? As far as I know Danty, Wardi or Macalou were born in cities and they were from modest in not more modest background than Dupont, whose family owned an Hostel and farming lands.
By the way, can you remind us where are Jelonch and Dupont playing those days if not in this "chic urban team" called Toulouse ?
As Thomas put it nicely, it has more to do with a successful system (JIFF) than an imaginary rivalry.
YES!! Nobody will hear about it overseas but its one of the best rugby documentary ever created. Absolutely fantastic to see the growth of these insane players.
Well said Tim. Such sad news that another team has gone bust. As you say the fall out from that is huge. Let’s hope no more follow. Lyon looks amazing. You should be getting paid by the French Tourist Board for the beautiful settings you have shown us ☘️🇮🇪
I dunno about Leon but Lyon certainely is :)
@@MU-TH-UR haha thanks for the correction. Typo I’m afraid ☘️🇮🇪
who is leon 🤔😂 and th best thing about "lyon" still is its restaurants ;)
In France, we play rugby at school and we are graded on it, we even have a rugby test at the baccalaureate at 18 years old. It is also practiced at university.
I started playing rugby at school when I was 8 years old.
This is what motivated me to practice it for 12 years in a club.
I am from west coast near La Rochelle
Wow. Had no idea
@@EggchasersRugby I don't know if it's reserved for the South-West regions, but it's like that where I live and I'm 40 years old
@@MrBreakingBuddefinitely not everywhere in France
It is not at all a reality in all of France, not even in all of the south West of France, it happens in some high schools depending of the teachers' choice. I also grew up close to La Rochelle and we were graded either on swimming, running or gymnastics in my high school rugby wasn't an option even if we had 2 clubs in the city. Some good things are done about Rugby in France, things tend to work fine but let's not be arrogant, à few years ago pur national team was more of a joke than à force, and top 14 survived because of à few millionnaires. The french rugby économy is still very much dependant on these people who spend more than they invest in french clubs. For now everything seems all right but i'm not sure england should try to be like us. Being a bit less of à posh boys club would probably not Hurt them though and maybe they could even become likable for people outside england
@@clementbatut4053 je suis des Deux-Sèvres et je n'ai eu que des profs de sport avec l'accent toulousain, c'est sûrement dû à ça que ça fait parti des cours de sport de la primaire au lycée.
Sans compter les mercredis après-midi à l'UNSS
Merci pour ton accueil à Lyon. We've seen during generations great french clubs growing and I love to see rugby going so well in France. I would love to see a better english team, not relying on the foot of Ford (without wanting to disrespect him) but having a great confidence and just... playing a great rugby to create marvellous and intense games in 6 nations and during crunch 🇫🇷🏉🏴
Egg, that was such an eye opener. Not negative at all, in fact very rational and insightful. Thank you
I grew up in NZ (Wainuiomata) but came back to the UK with my family when I was 10 yrs old, went to a comprehensive and never played again, I was gutted for years but rugby was non-existent where I lived. Unfortunately that public/state school divide still applies in most of the UK
Eddie Jones was right about that much when he was in UK. Media didn't like hearing it but it's true
Is that a league area in nz
Yeah it’s definitely true in Scotland, i think 95% of our players went to private school, and rugby union just doesn’t exist outside of the upper middle class
@hanoitripper1809 bro lived in wainuiomata all my life. Its a suburb in the hutt Valley area of wellington. There is a league and union club in wainuiomata. League had a period of 10 years or so in the 80's when it was strong and won the tusk cup ( the national league club championship), however the players of that Era mostly were union players who defected because the league club paid them. Otherwise it had and is predominantly a union area. League in nz is actually a minority sport numbers wise. Tv viewership of the nrl is quite high but numbers on the ground are pretty small
@@rollyrolly7729 ah ok. Yeh I was wondering bc my mates here in Brizzy come from there and they’re hardcore leaguies 😂
Thank you. I'm French. Your right French has enormous public support. Stadiums are full and it drive big money tv deals. They also put the JIF system that obliges professional clubs to play a certain amount of club formation young players. It's been put in place less than 10 years ago and we are seeing the result now. 👍🇫🇷
Too much TV deals? TF1 👀
@@puccalandCanal + is doing the most part in terms of club coverage, but France 2 is also broadcasting a lot of rugby international games. TF1, like they always do, splashed the cash for the WC and that's basically it, let's agree on that!
@@Sir77Hill Yes I was only talking about the WC. They will even do some concert hosted by Nikos pretending that's to support Les Bleus.
To reinforce what you are saying: What is a rugby player in France called? A "rugbyman". Not a "joueur de rugby". No, a rugbyman!
I started wathcing your review of the Ireland v SA game last weekend, and I had to turn it off almost immediately. Not because it wasn't good, but because your infectious excitement made me need to catch up on all the videos I'd missed while I was over in France myself. I'm only just caught up now today. I have to say Tim, you've captured the atmosphere, the raw excitment of so many fans, along with the abhorrently brilliant drunkeness so well (thankfully you weren't in Bordeaux or I may have been one of those drunks). I hope you're having a great time, keep the content coming, yourself and Mark from Two cents, are the best commentary on rugby across any media, no bias, no bullshit, just pure love of a fantastic sport. Well done and thank you.
THAT...is such a lovely comment. And I fully intend to reach out to Mark (Two Cents)...he's great. There must be something we can join forces for
@@EggchasersRugby it's great to see rugby finally break into this new media, thanks to the work that you guys, Alfie, the rugby analyst et al do. The days of dour, miserable journos like Stephen Jones, Neil Francis and other are being replaced with people who want to promote the sport as something to enjoy rather than something to endure, which is how I often feel watching some of the TV pundits. Thanks for the reply and enjoy the weekends games, I'll enjoy watching the reports.
I absolutely agree
I wish Ireland or France win the RWC even though this is not popular idea amongst my mates...but the Northern Hemisphere has the financial power to save the..Capetown.
Tim make sure you go the Bouchon Abel and eat, it’s superb. Quenelles de brochet is a must.
Super rugby has not been the same since the SA teams left and the URC has been the better since their arrival..I love going to see connacht vs the bulls for example and I'm not the only one.
I was sceptical about it at first and whilst the travelling seems crazy...the rugby product is a big improvement
@@EggchasersRugby Similar time zones (give or take an hour or 2 in some places) is much better than flying all the way to NZ/AUS. Even if the trip is still 10+ hrs lol.
@@Mad_Intalect Should be 10 hour flights but the SA teams have some crazy travel arrangements of 2 to 3 days in economy. Supposedly will be fixed in the future.
@@coatknight that's good news. I started watching URC last year from NZ (morning rugby is great) and am really enjoying it, but the travel stories sound like a massive challenge for its future. Would the URC band together and consider buying a plane or two? USA pro teams generally travel private
@@EggchasersRugbyI wish our franchises had access to all the Springboks and other top players, that would really heat up the URC. But we don’t have the money.
I am the mother of three children, two of whom are boys, and I always knew, long before I was a mother, that if I wanted them to learn the values that are mine outside the home, I could count on rugby clubs. In addition, we are taught that in a rugby team there is room for all styles and formats of child: small, large, thin, strong. Everyone finds his place. I live in Provence where rugby is very popular but not as much as in the south west.
Not every mother is happy her boys get hurt on a regular basis: bruises, twisted ankles, head traumas, possibly fractures, etc...
And not happy to have to wash rugby gear every week, lol.
Very interesting. Does your daughter play rugby too or just the sons? I don't know whether to promote rugby to my girl versus something like football. I love the idea that rugby clubs can help inculcate good and strong values - completely agree.
@@hec8 I have three daughters and none play rugby, however I taught them the values of this sport having been a player myself at the Racing Club de France (in my wild youth).
And now I have three fans who never miss a match and that's also a bond and a point in common.
I am a 46 yo lady and I regret so much not to have ever tried rugby. My sister and I wanted to play when we were teens, but we were told that it was too dangerous for girls. I would encourage girls to practice rugby, so they don’t regret. Trust your daughters, they’ll know when and how to protect their bodies, and their teammates’.Also, I love watching female rugby too. It less agressive, slower, so I understand better the strategies of each team.
Unfortunately the values that rugby teaches are no longer cherished in England. They are considered old fashioned.
I grew up to a large degree in South Africa.
We played touch rugby as small lighties. At the age of 12 / 13, we all had to play rugby at high school (state or private) for the winter season. Even people who didn’t want to, played rugby. I didn’t want to in the beginning - but it was make clear that I had no real other option. We had 3-6 teams per school year. We had great coaches and camaraderie. We played all other schools in our areas - and also later toured into other provinces. Happiest times I can think of. We took it very seriously but had fun. All teams a), b) or whatever had their own team spirit.
We played up to 2 games per week against other schools and had two tough training sessions per week after school hours. This was fantastic for all children involved. I think you need this strong school system, if you want to produce many quality players.
sounds like my school days
Depends on the school whether you have to compete. Usually South Africans have very little choice when it comes to track and field.
We werent forced to play rugby but there was a lot of pressure to play. School boy rugby can be quite mad. In some games though, basically derby games, you could get up to 8 teams per year, and those games are very well supported. A game like Affies vs Pretoria boys could attract as many people as a provincial game.
One huge difference is that rugby is rooted historically in rural France so it is a proudly everyday folks game as opposed to it being associated with a class thing in some countries. It’s a shame if some parts of society are kept from this wonderful game. In France we see more and more players coming from the big cities’s poorer districts as huge efforts are made by the local clubs to attract young people who didn’t consider rugby as a possible sport before. Clubs are still called rugby schools for the youngsters so education is at the centre even for those not built to play rugby at a higher level .Another thing is that our clubs in the top 14 need to give playtime to young players coming from France’s training system (jiffs) , if they don’t they get a huge fine… just two points. Interesting debate, rugby is at a turning point and I hope both the historic nations as well as the emerging ones will find a way to keep this sport we love so exciting and beautiful.
The composition of the picture beginning at 2:50 is astounding with the slight _contre-plongée,_ the swans, the bridge, the tower and people passing by.
Watching this video now makes it all the more tragic that we're now eliminated from our own World Cup 😢
I love your unbiased and totally committed love for rugby Tim. ❤
You always have such insightful and pressing questions to ask as a bonus.
From my perspective, relating to the state of rugby globally. Too many egos with that 'boys club' mentality still hanging on for dear life, running the game and ruining it slowly but surely. Which has unfortunately caused the game to lose its ethos and real value. Because they've also been swayed too much by the idea of sanitizing the game to be able to compete against other sports. Forgetting in the process that rugby requires a unique and values driven approach in order to survive. Not bells and whistles BS.
World Rugby has tried to sprint before it could even walk, as a professional sport. Forsaking the very individuals that keep the game alive from grassroots level up.
Doing a great job. Love you Tim keep it up. We really appreciate you.
Loving your work, keep doing good things, I've got a bit of a rant stored up, this seems like a good time. I was fortunate to have gone to a rugby playing school, with some pedigree, to wear a first team jersey was an honour. I've got 2 boys who I threw into the local club, where I coached. When it came to secondary school, academically, we were going to be fine, but sporting, really bad. We got lucky, one teacher from west Yorkshire, who still played, stood up and said I'm going to build a team and he did. we said use our club, use our fields, everything has a cost, we will waive the fees, or find a way. I watched them grow, they almost beat a fee paying school, understanding coach, held back his better players, brought them on and they won., but in terms of raw talent it was there, not your usual types, they were cockey, arrogant, overly aggressive, but we never got to find out. Teacher got promoted, has his own life to lead and good on him, but no time to follow a passion project. It should not be this way. He still texts me when he has a player, who is interested. Rugby is full of good people and we will always do our best. Participation, the eldest lad, is more capable, but last year fell out of love with it, mid season, but some how he has found his way back, on his own accord, it still is the best team game ever invented, not just when you cross the line, but everything around it. probably did not get that quite right, but vlog inspired me. Onwards and upwards.
From the UK. Was fortunate to visit New Zealand many years ago. 2 things about rugby I learnt. Overheard 2 grandma's having a tactical conversation about the game that was on the TV, culture has a dramatic effect and the UK is football mad. Also learnt that kids are not taught to play a certain position but how to play all positions till they get older and find their best position but with the knowledge and skills that other positions need.
Also totally agree, the game is not for everyone and is not a soft sport. I see the influence of non rugby people and the need to popularize the game as having quite an adverse effect to the actual way the game is played. The rules of the game and officiating are moving more to pleasing the average viewer then the average player. Too much 'internet outrage' about accidents that we now punish them and malicious/reckless act equally. Anyone who has the slightest knowledge of the game knows a game without a bit of blood means it was probably rained off.
100% about non rugby people. They are destroying the sport to try get people who hate rugby to like it at the expense of people who love it…..
In France we would say that it is as dull as a match without a third half.😁😁
Yeah culture is important but that is not it. I mean the top sport in france is also definitely football, and then in some parts of France Rugby is the main sport. But France, we have a very good competitive team in several of the main team sport, just look at football, rugby, handball, volley-ball, even basketball. And I don’t think we can say that handball, volley-ball, or even basketball are very cultural in france. And you have other sport that are or have became quite cultural also, and where France is sometimes very good, if u look at fencing, tennis, Ping pont, judo etc..
si yeah I think something is done correctely in France, and it is not only linked with culture to one or few sports.
@@eddymalou1429 Football is unbelievably dominant in the UK so I can only disagree with your statement about culture not being the difference. Our entire culture is football mad, just look at any paper on any given day and you have probably a frontpage story about something football related and 10 or 11 back pages.
Being a lifelong Rugby player/fan I have always got angry and the lack of widespread support for our game here which is why it was literally a culture shock to see how other countries treated the sport.
And just to emphasis that it is a cultural problem, we have not won the football world cup for almost 60 years despite inventing the game and despite the massive investment the game gets financially. But shitty football clubs are fined for paying too much while our Rugby clubs are going bankrupt.
Again, unless you live here you might not understand just how much football dominates the country...unfortunately.
@@Grumpy_Hobbit yeah I get ur point, but what I was trying to say is that you can’t just have the culture as a vector of success, I mean u can have a huge culture around a sport and not having a lot of success, like football for Uk or in a less important way, tennis in france, and at the opposite being very successfull despite a small cultural importance, like handball in france.
So the answer is (for me) not just okay we are not good enough because of the lack of culture, and it would just be enough to push rugby in the media in england to have a top team. I think there is probably more. Of course culture helps but it isn’t all.
Tim, you are a great presenter, wonderful communicator. know how to thread a story.
love your style.
Great directions and analysis Tim..
Keep it going ..☘️💚💪
In France the Top 14 subsidises the second tier D2 through the TV rights so they have an player progression pathway to develop new players which we don't have. What I think should happen in the UK is we need to overhaul the club structure and incorporate Wales, Scotand (Ireland would be great but not sure they'd be interested). Then set up a Super rugby style competition to replace the premiership with maybe 6 clubs from England, 2 each from Wales and Scotland (or 4,2,2 and 4 if Ireland joined). Any player in that competition can still play for their respective national team. I would also give a 2 year exemption for any player to play in a top tier forengn league as well while still being eligible for the national team (like RSA), why not let another league carry the cost of developing them into a world class calibre player. Other countries have had to adapt to improve and England have just backwards over the last 8-10 years so something needs to be done
Excellent points made. (PS. You didn't appear to preview/review the Japan game, unless I've missed something. England's confirmed progression calms the jitters a bit.....)
Tim, I've lived in France since 1981. I'm from West Park grammar school in St Helens, in the 70s. which disappeared a long time ago. There were 4 rugby pitches and we all played rugby against other schools. There was one team for each form from 1st form to Upper 6th. And you had to play. Those were the days. I cried when I heard the school was demolished to make way for a housing estate.
This made me appreciate what Rassie has done as director of rugby in south africa. 6 years ago SA rugby was in a terrible place from government overreach
Tim thats a shame for English rugby, I played rugby when I lived in England and met some utterly brilliant people and the community that was built. The club in Hampshire went from playing on a svhool pitch with one team, then two, three, gottheir own pitches, built a clubhouse. Still some of my best memories , took a few hidings, stepped up for other clubs when they were short.
Its a brilliant game it deserves to thrive and obviously the safety concerns are being confronted.
Great channel. As a Frenchman I'd never have thought that the rugby image is that negative in England. The values it carries definitely contribute to its increase in popularity in France.
Reminds of the saying "Football is a gentleman's sport played by thugs; rugby is a thug's sport played by gentlemen". Thought that came from England.
Here in South Africa, school rugby is absolutely massive, from primary school majority of boys start playing rugby, school leagues the works
That "tiny little thing" is symptomatic of a bigger societal problem we've got here, Tim. Spot on as always!
Bonjour de San Francisco,
Very good content and analysis, a real pleasure to listen to you.
Merci
Tim, love your insight, you are contagious, you give kudos to all the teams that deserve it. One is the best rugby pods!!!! Cheers or as we Irish say, Slainte
It is so sad to see another club go bust, English rugby needs a complete overhaul, something like what the cricket team did. And by the way, beautiful setting.
That's a nice view Tim. I hope yiu liked it. I do. Cause I live there. Though I had never noticed swans were swimming in this one river ( there's actually 2 rivers in Lyon, that was the Rhône). Enjoy your time Tim!
I didn't realise. I will walk along the other one too before I go. Lovely city
Another excellent thought provoking video. Surely all those countries Rugby Unions who's results at this World Cup can see, a long term plan not just with coaching and players etc. but right through the entire ethos of Rugby in their country needs to be reviewed. Just ask Ireland and France - it doesn't take 1 year - its more of the best part of a decade, and that's if you have the semblance of the right things in the first place. Ireland and France didn't become this good overnight, just as England Wales and Australia won't. But the longer they take to have the right vision and strategy, and then start the process, the worse it becomes for them. If things don't change materially in the next couple of years you can possibly see a World Cup in 8 years time that only has 8 teams.
This is my fear. The decline has begun. Probably got a way to sink yet since the plan to turn it around hasn't yet been implemented
Yep, Its not England and Australia, I would venture that the decline (probably marginal at this stage) in New Zealand rugby has already begun. If for example the Springboks actually enter the 6 (or 7) Nations in a couple of years, Kiwi rugby could really start to struggle in time.
This is actually a World Rugby problem too - growing the game needs some dynamic thinking, as its not just National Rugby that has to be thought about, its also about all the competing sporting activities that are promoting themselves much better in the global arena.
Thoughtful video mate. Appreciate the thoughts and the coverage. That is awesome!
The woke community got the English by the balls.😂
I agree. Behind everything is this woke collapse.
You speak sense. Here in South Africa we, by the way, we have our own destructive problems ( like empty pavilions due to social problems and a system wherein one has to be rich to afford the pay channel the broadcast rugby) so SA rugby may not be as strong as you say much longer.
Your still lucky you don't have an NRL that killed Rugby in Australia so no competition for the youngsters
Couldn’t agree more I was lucky enough to grow up in the south west of England with rugby always a big part of my life but travelling up north to go to university it just dies off not being promoted as much and not many people even knowing the World Cup is on. Uni societies constantly having to apologise for socials I grew up doing with my dad and grandad, the spirit just seems to be dying off creating a huge divided between the new and older generations. Always great to listen to your thoughts, really interesting :)
Keep hope Tim, sometimes things change very quickly ! Enjoy this evening match.
Tim spot on, France is very well organised, the country is a lot bigger than the UK so local French supporters go to the nearest club, in their thousands and it is a much bigger sport than the UK. Private school rugby has been the problem for 50 + years, nanny state wants no competition sports !! how does that work ?
Brilliant video Tim, very insightful 👏👏👏👏
Thank you and congratulations for telling the truth. Rugby, Men. Tough, persistance, consistancy, training, strength, passion, drive, commitment......lots of folks consider these words and ideas to be censored and eliminated from society.
As for state of affairs, this morning I watched an interesting and informative short video piece...The Rise and Fall of Australian Rugby.
One part is the dillution of talent, the other, the effect of social manipulation.
Here in South Africa we have a strong system of rugby being played at most public high schools. You do not have to be at a private school to specifically play rugby. However, to go up into the higher levels is the tricky part (transitioning from school to pro provincial/club level). Varsity Cup (university league) is probably the last chance to be seen and picked up by a professional team if you were not spotted as a scholar and being invited to try out for the provincial academies. I played at high school at a decent level and enjoyed it. However, sounds like it's very different in England
11:17 I enjoy the content (the fan post game anaylsis, wider questions probed and the caravan updates) and as a casual fan I am interested to know what the England rugby has been apologising about and for?
4:34 I'm glad that you've brought this up! Rugby being exclusively a private school sport is exactly why it's dying out in Scotland! Nobody cares about it here unless Scotland are playing, which means that a load of lower league amateur clubs don't have enough players for a full season
The fact that IRU centrally contracts players that are deemed suitable for the national team, keeping them playing in the provinces, changes everything. Basically, it makes everybody work for the success of the national team of which the provinces take advantage of, and not the other way around out of coincidence.
Agreed 💯
Do you think they learnt that from NZ?
Well said. The Irish system works well too
The system here has the advantage of protecting its players....France have had its issues burning out it players.....its worth noting rugby is the 4th most popular ball sport with gaelic, football and hurling drawing the most intrest. Rugby is not widely played here....but you'll see it is widely supported at least on the international level
Perhaps if we'd been allowed to get promoted for WINNING the Championship, it would've convinced sponsors to stay on, and some TV money wouldve helped as well. The Premiership closed shop/old boys club killed us.
The loss of JRFC was catastrophic.
I am “A” Political, I have no allegiance to the major establishment Political Parties, in fact, I despise them equally! So this is not a political point I am about to make. But if you understand how bad the Economic outlook is for Europe as a whole, I foresee major problems ahead for them.
My Australian girl friend, here in England, has regularly said to me, “Where are all The Real men now”? Fact is, Real Men are being eliminated and those that stubbornly maintain their stance are being 12:34 anonymised.
Adding to your point Tim, during the World Cup, the pro d2 teams are playing on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings so we’re getting to see rugby six nights a week right now.
Looks like ireland go out in the quarters again.
France is forward thinking on safety too. A question: Thinking about being forward planning, when did France set off in this direction?
Good video. respect for sending your son to state school, and also taking him to rugby club 😊 just one wee correction re current super rugby pacific format: each team play all 11 other teams once (then knockout finals). So each NZ team plays other NZ teams aften as Au teams do. Butvthe kwy difference is: Nz have their national provincial championship (ongoing now) - sadly Au still don't have that. 😕
In fact - in super rugby Pacific, each NZ team plays 4 games against NZ teams, but each Au team plays 5 games against NZ teams 😉 but currently the Brumbies are the only Au team in same league as NZ teams.
nice analysis, particulary about the game in England (and with World Rugby) seeming ashamed of itself. It's a tough sport and it's never going to be safe. The NRL is the most enjoyable competition for me these days, because it's brutal and exciting and isn't afraid to be so. Also fully agree with the shambles of the Wallabies being epitomised by that lineout at 10-6, the worst I've ever seen.
Great vid, Tim. Needed to be said. 👏🏻
You're spot on mate. How can you negotiate with politicians about the huge benefits of rugby when politicians are afraid to say what is and isn't a man. On the under 20's, Ireland were in that final too. Look at what Scotland have done. Their panel has 22 non nationals!!! It's soccer. Then look at Wales forced to blood their youngsters and getting the rewards. FYI all the rugby schools feeding the Irish systems are private.
Great vid.
I'd love to know the RFU's plan? Is out there being somewhere? I just want some sense of urgency.
I'm from Newcastle, possibly the most football-mad part of the country, and no one is even talking about the World Cup. It's not even mentioned in my kids school but the lionesses are were and the cricket was. But not the RWC. But what are the RFU doing to promote it to new audiences? Anything?
I get the money issue, but the must be something they can do. Engage more with influencers on CZcams perhaps? I bet Eddie Hall would do a vid training with the England team and get more eyes on them than any ITV advert.
Anyway, thanks for the vids and I'll stop ranting.
Hey dude , nice vidéo...i think you forgot to speak about the "jiff" statues in France wich saved our championchip from bankrupt and help tremendously our national team.
Preach! Many parallels here in the USA as well
bang on as always Tim ..
I reckon you should be next head of World Rugby!
You obviously know more about Rugby than anyone else, and having a relatively popular CZcams channel obviously proves it!
Love your videos mate. Thanks
Well, listening to you - opening rugby to public school would be probably a good start to turn things around. From my knowledge, england is still the country with the highest numbers of club players. There should be a way to improve the system
We will always be gratefull to England for inventing the greatest sport. 😍😍
Tim, your anecdote about “Men of Rugby” has given more fuel to a theory I’m working on. I think social and political issues in our sport have hampered it in many ways. The French will never apologise for who they are, and that translates to their approach to the game both on and off field.
In Australia we’re having a crisis of identity and that is reflected in every decision we make around Rugby; Law variations, media trained players, all the way to our players singing the national anthem, we aren’t proud of our country anymore and it shows on the field.
I obviously want people from all walks of life, to feel safe on and off the field but we can’t keep caving to pressure from people who aren’t even fans to begin with. The French would never do that, and that’s part of the reason they are on the rise.
Totally agree with you, Tim. Do think World Cup 2023 in South Africa would also have been great for the game, just my opinion. And it was almost unfairly taken away from South Africa.
Just when you think it gets worse for English rugby a other team has gone bust something needs sorting out quickly because the national team is getting a away with it in my opinion though in saying that they have good players that can get them out of trouble it's quite amazing skill
Bok fan here. Love your content!
my kids learning rugby at 6-7 years old at school in France (not a private school). Some Rugby trainers comes every thursday after lunch to teach them.
Legend! Solution is simple; summer rugby games moving away from winter, dont have league games same time as international games, copy the French pyramid/ English football pyramid, improve match day experience for families, expand no. of schools playing rugby etc. RFU/premiership wont do it though
As a Scot, I cannot emphasise the impact saffer teams has had in URC, so why not an anglo/French league?
Regarding kids rugby has to be back on curriculum at public schools😊
Growing up in Scotland at a school across the road from a rugby club with a team in Scotlands third division. Yet we only played (tag) rugby in school once in my time there. Hard to see how rugby can grow when even a state school like mine won't get their kids playing it
Can I ask what sports are played at your school?
@@jimbo1706 Football, hockey, basketball, netball, swimming and a lot of different athletics
I see two additional aspects to the current state of the French rugby.
The first one is the DNACG (I spare you the accronym). It's the regulatory body that since 1999 has been helping the clubs from regional leagues up to the Top 14 to better manage their finances. They have consistently issued sanctions from points deducted in the running season to relegations to the lower level before things were too bad.
But with their support a lot of club where able to achieve a sustainable financial base. I think it's one of the reasons French clubs went through the pandemic without major crashes.
The second and in my opinion the most important is the JIFF (Jeunes Issus de la Formation Francaise) system. Created in 2010, it imposes teams to have 55% of players trained in the French system.
The idea was to prevent teams to recruit only foreign seasoned players as Toulon was doing at that time and keep slots for French players open. It so gives young French players better opportunities to get playing time in the Pro D2 and Top 14. The best young players are exposed early to the top levels and can bloom quickly.
URC has done good things for us South Africans as well
Can’t disagree with any of of Tim’s comments. Gutted for Jersey
Amazing Pod Tim👍👍👏👏👏
Keith Wood said on a podcast after the Wasps/Worcester debacle, that during the pandemic the Irish Government effectively bailed out the IRFU with financial support, whereas in England the clubs got loans which have to be repaid, thus adding to their financial woes. If this is true then it is a significant factor in the English clubs financial problems. I wonder what happened in France?
I think I’ve read somewhere that the French Rugby federation endorsed a 20 millions € debt during Covid to help clubs and leagues
I just looked it up in French press archives and this is what I found:
The French rugby federation was full of cash when COVID broke out: more than 70M€. Post Covid the biggest losses reported by French teams were around 5M€. Compared with debts of up to 100M€ for some English clubs…
I have not found anything about the 20M€ but it is plausible given what I have found.
@@olivierarnaud-freaud6369 thanks for the insights and your research. I’m pretty sure to have read or heard something about a 20 millions something (might be debt, loan or else) regarding French Rugby Federation for Covid and the media stated it was also the case in Australian federation.
I can be wrong of course !
If I find where I’ve seen this information I’ll let you know here
As a Rugby League supporter in Australia just yesterday we had our NRL grand final last night with an absolutely cracking game going end to end with minimal stoppages on the back of a record season across all the metrics that get counted these days.
Sadly, for Rugby in Australia and the Wallabies things aren’t good again across the same metrics that get counted and that’s a huge shame because for 30+ years the Wallabies have had a very strong presence.
Sports loving Aussies and especially Rugby League supporters have turned off Rugby because of the 25+ penalties, 25+ scrums, 25+ line outs and 10 penalty shots at goal for 3 points instead of running the ball. The rules are killing the game and endless penalties and scrum resets and then line outs and then another penalty and then a penalty shot at goal can take up 5 minutes with almost no running the ball.
While there are some good games 3/10 only all too often it’s so boring now fans have just turned off and my Kiwis friends are saying the same
Does this boring rugby applies everywhere else ? Or is it mainly an Australia national thing ?
Because to me, we're witnessing great rugby, entertaining and definetly more and more a running style of rugby, seeking out spaces instead of colisions.
@@Impl0ze93 yes and no. I read a week or so ago I think it was the South Africa game v ? and the ball was in play like for 25 minutes only the article said. In Australia with Australia Rules fast and open and very popular and Rugby League the same watching a Rugby game with so many stoppages and penalty kicks at goal and scrums and line outs and then another penalty etc had turned people away in droves
Yeah..... I'm still terrified
I live in the heart of french rugbyland, Gers, and my daughter played "ballon ovale" in school at the age of 3. Then she enjoyed playing rugby 7...
Wonderful documentary made by France 2 TV about French rugby. Universal story featuring young Antoine DuPont and Co. English subtitle can be selected.
Massive fan!!
At club level it has going south some of the teams at colts level some of the teams we played haven't got enough players we are lucky that our team is big so to get a game we lend the other team players very sad
I’m not an English supporter by any segment of the imagination. In fact as a South African I would state that England is actually our biggest rival, the one country we hate to lose against the most. That being said, I enjoy your content and you have some valid points. I can’t discuss the higher levels of your rugby but a simple solution for grass root rugby is to allow all public schools the opportunity to be able to have rugby as sport at the school, as we do in SA. Rugby is an all inclusive sport for all kids shape abe sizes, it also teaches discipline and respect for both your pears and your coaches. Do this and the number of players in the UK will massively increase. Just a thought…
and, as the frenchman, we accept to lose against any country in the world at rugby except against England 🙂
Good video, the English game needs a leader with the vision to develop the future of the game. I was lucky enough to be the first ever YDO, working in London and later Regional Rugby Coordinator for London and the South East. Don Rutherford had a great vision for the future and, in 1988 knowing that the World Cup was coming to England in 1991 and would generate huge interest which needed large numbers of new coaches to accommodate this surge of new young players. We set out a target to create 5000 new coaches by the time the World Cup arrived (a number which was surpassed significantly). Educating Primary school teachers with Rugby Flag (now Tag) running 1st Coaching level courses at Sports and Science Universities. I remember running courses for students at the former West London Institute (later Brunel university).who would later become PE teachers. Disappointingly, I don't see anyone in the current administration with a plan to save the game in England or Wales. PS. It's 'bedrock' or 'backbone not "backrock". Keep up the good work !
Its greed and impatience with England. France has been building for far more than 4 years for this moment. In Ireland, the whole system is based on helping the 4 provinces and building to tje national team slowly. South Africa suffer through a 60% win rate or so in between world cups so they're here now and looking magnificent every 4 yeears on cue. England need a long term plan and to accept a loss in the shorter term
I am from the southwest of France and I am the ugly duckling in terms of sport because I am the only one to have played football among the men in my family... sacrilege 😂
all the others have played rugby in good level clubs. I would have to do it again, I would play rugby... I love this sport.
Make Wednesday afternoons sport/enrichment afternoon. Same as colleges and universities. The biggest thing I think that has hit the younger players getting in to rugby is the sacking of the rugby development posts, I coach girls and numbers and teams to play against dwindle year on year, and this is a group the rfu are prioritising! I’ve written to council members, club developers, and the guy in charge of age grade rugby. No one has written back! The RDO’s used to go in to schools and deliver rugby for free. We know the boots on the ground department at the rfu is the smallest from the recent letter of concern. We need to change our focus. Rugby appeals most to those who’ve played it before, so we need more people playing the game
French here > I spend some days in London and went several days in a pub and met a young English would told me several times that "Rugby was only watched by the rich peoples and that workers like him from lower class prefer Football!" ?!? I didn't exactly understood? Because here in France the people supporting Rugby are absolutely not from the upper classes !?!
I played rugby twice in school, and I was in a public school from the North of France where rugby is not that popular.
i live in lyon i hope you are enjoying the city haha i like your videos 😄😄
The addition of SA teams to the URC has been mega for that league! 💪💪