Professor Zouraris on Albert Camus and the Macedonia Naming Dispute
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- čas přidán 9. 02. 2015
- The Macedonia naming dispute is a political dispute centered over the use of the name Macedonia between Greece and the Balkan country of FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia), formerly a federal unit of Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. In antiquity, the territory of FYROM was approximately equivalent to the kingdom of Paeonia, which was located immediately north of ancient Macedonia. The modern Greek region of Macedonia approximately corresponds to that of ancient Macedonia. After the conquest of Macedonia by the Romans in 168 BC, a large administrative district was created which added Paeonia to other territories outside original Macedonia, and used the name "Macedonia" to describe the whole of this new province. In 1946 "People's Republic of Macedonia" was established as a federal part of newly proclaimed Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia under the leadership of Josip Broz Tito. That name immediately sparked controversy with Greece over concerns that it presaged a territorial claim. FYROM was renamed "Socialist Republic of Macedonia" in 1963, when Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia was renamed Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, but dropped "Socialist" from its name a few months before declaring independence from Yugoslavia in September 1991. Greece and FYROM eventually formalised bilateral relations in an Interim Accord signed in New York on 13 September 1995. Under the agreement, FYROM removed the Vergina Sun from its flag and irredentist clauses from its constitution, and both countries committed to continuing negotiations on the naming issue under UN auspices. Until a solution is found, the provisional reference "Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia" (often abbreviated as FYROM) is to be used by international organisations and states which do not recognise translations of the constitutional name.
Albert Camus (7 November 1913 - 4 January 1960) was a French Nobel Prize winning author, journalist, and philosopher. He wrote in his essay "The Rebel" that he had devoted his entire life to opposing nihilism while still delving deeply into individual freedom.
Kostas Zouraris, born 1940 in Thessalonica, is a political scientist. He studied law in Thessalonica and political science in Paris, where he was involved in the May 1968 movement. He has taught political science at University of Vincennes, Paris, since 1969. Zouraris has been elected MP with ANEL in Greece's January 2015 parliamentary election. ANEL won 13 seats and formed a governing coalition with SYRIZA
Well said Mr. Zouraris!... Encyclopedia of World Geography, Volume 1, 2006, p.564: “FYROMacedonian nationalism, as distinct *from other South Slavic* peoples is, moreover, a relatively new concept, *introduced and encouraged by dictator Josip Tito*, upon *the creation of a separate Macedonian Republic within the Yugoslav federation in 1946*. Prior to this, the area generally known as *Vardarska banovina* (the district of the Vardar river) was considered simply an extension of its southern Slavic neighbors, either Serbians to the north, or Bulgarians to the east. Slavs arrived in the Balkan Peninsula only in the 6th century AD, and therefore *have nothing to do with the well-known classical kingdom of Macedonia, which dominated the rest of Greece*, the Near East, Egypt and Persia under Alexander the Great in the 4th century BCE.”
[+Geliefde Liefde] _"For if any non-Greek power, whether Persian or Macedonian, were to achieve world dominion, the typical form of the Greek state would suffer death and destruction."_ Now where the hell is that from? We all know Demosthenes speech, and that he never uttered these words, so this nice little quote must be from a "historian" but which one? Well, well well, could it be from the shining beacon of all propaganda site? Yup, who would have thought. :rolleyes:
Geliefde Liefde You are a bit ignorant, no? :) And your info comes from the known FYROMian nationalist forgery site, how pathetic... :D Read this here cause you won't read it there! ;) “It is my judgement, therefore, that we have to thank the valor of these men [Thebans], along with the folly of our opponents, that our enemies [Macedonians] did not set foot upon our land; because, every man of them having had proof of their mettle, those who there engaged them on that occasion had no wish to confront in battle a second time *the kinsmen of those men,* suspecting that, although they would confront *men of the same breed,* they were not likely to find the fortune of battle so kind.
Not the least reason for believing that this was their state of mind is afforded by the peace that was made; for it is impossible to cite a more plausible or more creditable reason than that the master of our opponents, astounded at the valor of these who died, chose rather to be friendly toward *their kinsmen* than once more to assume the risk of all his fortunes."
(Demosthenes, “Funeral Speech” [To the battle of Chaeronea], 60.19, www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0080%3Aspeech%3D60%3Asection%3D19)
As Malcolm Errington pointed,
"Ancient allegations that the Macedonians were non-Greek *all had their origin in Athens at the time of the struggle with Philip II.* Then as now, political struggle created the prejudice. The orator Aeschines once even found it necessary, in order to counteract the prejudice vigorously fomented by his opponents, to defend Philip on this issue and describe him at a meeting of the Athenian Popular Assembly as being 'entirely Greek'. Demosthenes' allegations were lent an appearance of credibility by the fact, apparent to every observer, that the life-style of the Macedonians, being determined by specific geographical and historical conditions, was different from that of a Greek city-state. This alien way of life was, however, common to western Greeks of Epirus, Akarnania and Aitolia, as well as to the Macedonians, *and their fundamental Greek nationality was never doubted. Only as a consequence of the political disagreement with Macedonia was the issue raised at all.*"
(Malcolm Errington, “A History of Macedonia", Philipps-Universitat in Marburg, Germany, University of California Press, 1993, p.4)Alexander I of Macedon, king of Macedon from 498 BCE to 454 BCE:
"Men of Athens [...] In truth I would not tell it to you if I did not care so much for all Hellas [Greece] ; *I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas [Greece] change her freedom for slavery.*"
(Herodotus, "Histories", 9.45.1-2 www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hdt.+9.45&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126)
Always remember this, by Alexander I of Macedon, king of Macedon from 498 BCE to 454 BCE:
"Men of Athens [...] In truth I would not tell it to you if I did not care so much for all Hellas [Greece] ; *I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas [Greece] change her freedom for slavery.*"
(Herodotus, "Histories", 9.45.1-2 www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hdt.+9.45&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126)
Athena Vibrating
It's really sad that many people rely in that FYROMian nationalist website...
[+Macedonian Always Greek] The accusation by Demosthenes _Ου μόνον ουχ Έλληνος όντος ουδέ προσήκοντος ουδέν τοιςΈλλησιν, αλλ’ ουδέ βαρβάρου εντευθεν οθεν καλόν ειπείν_ (Third Phillipic Γ' 31) translated roughly as "[Philip] is neither Greek nor barbarian". Demosthenes also accuses Aeschines (the orator of the Athenian pro-Macedonian party you alluded to) _Βάρβαρον τε γάρ πολλάκις και αλάστορα τον Φίλιππον αποκαλών εδημηγόρει ... ελληνικώτατον ανθρώπων και φιλαθηναιότατον_ (On the False Embassy 305 - 308) "[Aeschines] used to call Philip a barbarian but now he calls him the most Greek of all men and the dearest friend of Athens". Whoever has basic knoweledge of the political vocabulary of fourth century Greece knows that the terms "Greek" and "barbarian" were regularly used as synonyms for "civilized" and "uncivilized" (εισαι Ελληνας εσυ ρε;) -- if we were to take them literally we would reach the strange conclusion that the Ancient Greeks never existed since every Greek state including Athens had been "accused" of being "non-Greek" and "barbarian". Demosthenes himself writes _Ουκ εχθρός, ουκ έχω τά ημέτερα, ου βάρβαρος, ουχ ο,τι αν ειποι τις_ (Third Olynthiac Γ' 16) making clear that he refers to Philp as being a barbarian in the metaphorical sense. One must try really hard to forget and erase everything else, then mistranslate a few Greek phrases and then on top of that fabricate evidence in order to think otherwise --
Geliefde Liefde
Gandeto (real name J. Grezlovski) is a known FYROMian nationalist. :) Gandeto always forgets to mention that the Greeks used the term "barbarian" (ancient Greek: βάρβαρος - "barbaros") not only for the people of different cultures *but also to mock and deride other Greek tribes and states.* In other words, the word “barbarian” was a political distinction, not an ethnic one. For instance in Plato's dialogue “Protagoras” (341c) Prodicus labelled the Aeolic dialect as barbarian, while referring to Pittacus of Mytilene: “He didn't know to distinguish the words correctly, being from Lesbos, and having been raised with a barbarian dialect.”
Demosthenes called anyone he did not like a barbarian, including fellow Athenians (e.g. 21.150). The word _barbarian_, at least in some uses by Demosthenes and others, should be understood as a generic insult. Thus, for example, in some parts of the USA people are dubious that people from other parts are "real Americans".
Modern historians (experts on Macedon, unlike Gandeto) clearly revealed the Demosthenic corpus as simply a form of political rhetoric designed to formulate public policy (Eugene Borza, "In The Shadow of Olympus", Princeton University Press, 1992, ISBN 0691008809, pp. 5-6.) or as just a pure insulting speech (Nicholas Hammond, "The Miracle that was Macedonia", St. Martin's Press, 1991, ISBN 0283999101).
To sum up:
“It is worth noting that the term 'barbaric' referred primarily to the Greek's incomprehension of non-Greek tongues. *Greeks, particularly the Athenians, would also use it to deride other Greeks [Macedonians].”* (Baracchi, Claudia, “The Bloomsbury Companion to Aristotle”, Bloomsbury Academic, 2014. p.292)
It is imperative that you take the correct position over the name issue of Macedonia. It is impermissilble to see the larcening of the histotry of a neiboring country. With irresponsibility and with ignorance towards the history of Greece the Former Repuclic of Macedonia is trying to alter a history of 2,500 years. It is a proven fact that the slavs had migrated into the area around 6th century AD. The MACEDONIANS are of Greek decent(Dorian tribe as are the Spartans) and they have no connection withthe Slavic race, and formost the Slavs where the ones that had decended into the area. Scholars after many years of studies have come to the resolution that the Macedonians are part of the Greek race. The language their culture inicates their Greek heritage. F.Y.R.O.M is a missmatch of Serbs-Albanians (who coincidently are 25.2% of the population) -Bulgarians -Roma (gypsies) and turks as well as a small number of Vlachs who are greek decent..As for their language it's a dialect of the bulgarian language. Not olny have they treid to embezzele the history but have aspirations for expansionism, with views of expansion as fas as Thessaloniki & Halkidiki .Greece is a homogenized nation of Greeks & Greeks only, and Macedonia is part of Greece. Even their own Prime minister (KYRO GREGOROV)came out and stated that they are Slavs and are no part of the history MACEDONIA, AND THAT THEY ARE OF SLAVIC DECENT. Ljubco Georgievski as well had mentioned that he is of Slavic dececnt. So it is necessery to comply with the international treaties, and to seek corporation with Greece, because a large number of investors are GREEKS who have invested in FYROM and propel vast amount of money into the state.