India is a Retreating Image in China's Rear-View Mirror": Shyam Saran on How China Sees India
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2022
- In a 40-minute interview to Karan Thapar for The Wire, Shyam Saran said “China would like to see India slotted into a subordinate role in an Asia dominated by itself”. This means China will do everything to thwart India’s rise and, citing the example of its opposition to India’s membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group, Shyam Saran added, China is no longer worried about being the only voice opposing India.
The interview begins with Shyam Saran explaining how and why two countries that share a nearly 3,500 km border are so ignorant of each other. After that Shyam Saran explains how China has traditionally (during the last two centuries) “looked upon India as a slave nation”. This is because China’s perception was conditioned by the British colonial presence in India as well as India’s role in the Opium Wars and opium trade.
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China's historical domination of East Asia was not a myth. The domination is one of cultural and civilization domination and not one of military or political. All East Asian states sought Chinese support as a form of regime legitimization within their own borders. That took place in the absence of Chinese military or political presence in other East Asian states. China never claimed to be an imperial power historically and does not seem to see imperial ambitions today.
VERY DIFFERENT TIMES BROTHER. THE RULERS WERE INFLUENCED EITHER BY BUDDHISM OR CONFUCIANISM. TODAY BY COMMUNIST IDEOLOGY. THE POINT IS- MODERN CHINA OF TODAY IS VERY DIFFERENT.
Bcz value they followed at that time was from baudha but today's china is not that china their thoughts action n practice all rediscover by communist ideology.
@@KingKhan-123 That is a separate discussion. I am merely addressing the claim that historical Chinese "domination" of East Asia is not a myth as long we define the word "domination" correctly.
@@KingKhan-123 Today, China is not a communist state but an authoritarian/meritocratic state. In ancient China, to work in the government a person had to pass three layers of examination based on the teaching of Confucius. Now, China is still practicing this method. A student who wants to be a member of the CCP has to be a valedictorian.
I quite disagree with your option that China has not imperial ambition.
In fact, China has imperial ambition.
We can understand his ambition by simply an example that in Shri Lanka he has invest huge amount for Shri Lankan's Hambantota port. By doing so China is full filling his ambition of imperialist thought.
On the other hand, China has rooted his strength in Pakistan also by giving millions of dollar for the shake of his interest in South East Asia. So that China could extend his reach to most of India's neighbouring countries. It clearly shows Chinese imperial thought.
In this way China is trying in fact we can say that China has vested it's all power to circle India in South Asia.
I can definitely see the pride and prejudice from Shyam Saran, the majority what he said about China's history including Tibet was not even close to the history fact, may be that's because India only has a very short history as an independent country. As a Former Foreign Secretary of India, this is kinda embrassing.
He's a fake scholar and a true charletan ..
Shyam is correct in that most Chinese people see India in an ambivalent manner even despite the border disputes. I would say that India's failure to quickly modernize, has diminished its status as an alternate center of civilization. Nobody remembers 1962 other than Indians, it literally happened over half a century ago.
czcams.com/video/TTuU53cSyog/video.htmlsi=Ad9NsetcfInLsO2f
czcams.com/video/TTuU53cSyog/video.htmlsi=Ad9NsetcfInLsO2f
the best way to describe China and India is similar between Canada and US, Russia and its neighbors, or Germany and its neighbors. there is less trade between China and India though.
India may be the power in its surrounding areas, but never in Asia no matter how hard it tries.
China thought that India would be like them to try to completely get ride of the western colonial grip which still limit both countries. So it's so suprised to see India join America and Australia and Japan to go against them! Why?
You are lying, virus always supported anti India forces, like Islamic terrorists and created hindrances in becoming nuclear power. China wants to enslave India.
India is corrupted.
Every prime minister from india has extended their hand of friendship. China replied by pointing weapons 😫😫😫
@@Snrynswm and taking territory - something stoutly denied by 56 inches.
Why? Because China is a threat to India. China has no intention of sharing the “throne”. China is the world’s next upcoming bully.
Tibet had been a part of China in the entire Qing Dynasty before 1911, and part of China during Republic of China (1911-1950). Why do you still claim China and India was separated by Tibet?
Tibet is a separate country of its own. If Tibet is part of China, then China is part of Mongolia.
Mongolia controlled all of China at one point of time. Even the Manchus controlled all of China.
So there should be no China at all. Either it becomes Mongolia or Manchuria.
@@asmirann3636lol you know how Mongolia called China when they did control china? China!
@@asmirann3636 No need for "if." The fact is British India recognize Tibet as part of China.
China controlled Mongolia too during Han and various dynasty, various ethnic of East Asia fight each other just like various ethnic kingdoms fought within South Asia. But there's a system of governance in East Asia, whoever take the throne, claimed Chinese mandate of heaven. Hence, Mongol uses Chinese title Yuan. It's one political entity.
There was no India before 1947. India's borders today is defined by it's former colonial master.
Yeah... There was only Mecca, Madina and Jannath before 1947.
Then the psychopath uttered KUN !!!
LAYMAN FALLACY FROM THE BLIND FOLLOWER OF A ROTTEN BOOK AND EQUALLY ROTTEN PEDOPHILE...
👍
Indian identity is defined by wherever sanskrit was spoken and Dharmas ( plural to include buddhism and jainism) were practices ...
The problem was that we Indias were inward looking and people of Abrahamic faith took advantage of that.
No more.
We will hold our ground ..while confused western kids run to us for Spiritual guidance ..
Nearly 50% of Americans ( and 25% of Christians in USA) believe in Reincarnation even though that is against Bible.
European colonized our Land ....We will colonize the their souls and do without firing one bullet. They won't even know it before they are worshiping Jesus in their church but are Hindu/Buddhist in spirit.
So India and China need to be partners .. Because Dao/Advaita/ Buddhist philosophies are nearly similar.
Nepal has received more respect from the British than India has, because Nepal's population has successfully resisted colonial invasion, thus Nepal remain intact on the map. In contrast, "India" was divided into Pakistan and Bangladesh at the British government's desire when British relinquish its control on India. India in partly to blame for the damage the West has caused to the nation, which is still happening as we speak. China at least exhibits greater dignity in this situation.
India's actual threat came from its inferiority, complexity, and lack of confidence in the absence of the West. It is simply too convenient to blame China and please the west where India remains addicted to after decades of being colonised. Does China not recognize, in this regard, India is still slave to the west with its own comparison?
@@nightowl4121 India is a faithful slave of west. They have adopted western lifestyle and social evil prevalent in west. Even Russians are better in resisting western anti-nature social inclinations
It’s a lot of opinions from this so called expert, but it’s not based on reality.
In general, India’s is too fixated on China. It’s much better to focus on improving your own country rather than worry about how China is doing or how China sees India.
Exactly. India lags horribly behind on all indicators of human development and socioeconomic development. Same as the USSR. Heck, the USSR at least had many key scientific and technological achievements to it's name.
hdi lmao@@thecomment9489
The main difference is that China's leaders work for the greater good of their own country n people whereas Indian leaders r only interested in increasing their wealth n popularity at the expense of the long suffering Indians
India unfortunately becomes one of the weakest link in Asian Solidarity
The obsession in democracy becomes a hindrance to their development as its difficult to motivate without collective effort by the people
It’s noble to be patriotic,but blind patriotism could be particularly destructive as emotion overcome logics
@@ahsoontan1219 do be aware that India is not a democracy but a corrupt pro elites plutocracy n this is the reason for massive failures
Tibet had been part of China various times prior to 1950....Even during the Yuan Dynasty.
Not true. China claimed everyone was a vassal state whether it was true or not.
@@rickbarrington What proof do u have? Every history book I've checked shows Tibet and Xinjiang were part of China during Qing Dynasty. With Autonomous status, just like now. They only decided to claim independence because mainland China was too busy with its civil war. All CCP did was to reclaim back those territories.
In fact, it was those leaders who agreed to rejoin China. That's why a war never occurred. Even the 14th Dalai Lama recognizes Tibet as part of China, so I don't know what lies u guys are feeding lol.
India, America, and many other countries have also annexed multiple territories as well, so much hypocrisy.
The Queen Dowager wanted to take back Mongolia and Xinjiang as both were encroached by the Russian with the help of the local rebels who wanted to breakaway from China. But the general insisted he could only fought one war and not both since the empire was in decline and lack resources. Fortunately, the Chinese general got foresight fighting the rebels from Central Asia instead of rescuing Mongolia. Now Xinjiang is the gateway to the West and Central Asia.
As for Tibet, Tibetan and Han alliances were written in history. From the Tang, Ming and Yuan Dynasties. India only went into Tibet with the British Forces trying to annex Tibet. The rest is history.
@@crtordoes I think Xinjiang and Tibetan ppl would live a better life under China. Their economy is actually doing pretty good. So much lies on mainstream media.
@@tonypeterson5316 Absolutely ! Just look at the Tibetan habitats in Tibet and India. Great disparity. 😩
The Chinese government has gone so far ahead that it cannot see the RED EYES of Modiji in rear view mirror.
They see them. They think they are being lit up with infra-red target designators. That scares them. Thus they accelerate
🤠🤠🤠
India was seen as a rival of China only when MMS was in power.
Feku Modi when he was CM is exact opposite of Feku Modi as PM. 🤣🤣
China is far ahead thanks to Bezos, Musk, Walmart and so forth. The US deliberately elevated thiis Far Eastern nation as they are more malleable by whites. Witness Japan which the Germans controlled and made into the perfect factory state. Do you want to be a drone in a large factory that caters to the West? Hmmmm!
@@demontrader1222 too much airy fairy talks. Come down to earth 😂
This so called expert should write Jataka tales . All fiction all baised all prejudice. China is lifting Africa and all underdeveloped countries . China wants asia to come up also India. But Indians always suspicious of China . The hesitation is from india
Yes, suspect some of his narratives are self-contrived and not factual.
True
"China is lifting Africa and all underdeveloped countries "
lifting where? ..to a "utopia" under crushing debt?
We see Sri Lanka and Pakistan in South Asia that went from bad to worse splurging on so-called Chinese development projects.
He's not ordinary man, but ex-foreign secretary of India. Now you know why India can't get along with China and all its neighbors.
for one thing: chinese do not live in dreams (illusions etc.). their eyes are open, they have clear mind, they are pragmatic, and most of all, they rely on themselves and are extemely hardworking. this is how china has become 5x india.
5X India and increasing. 5% growth in China is like 25% growth in India due to the relative size of their economies. The image in China's rear view mirror is getting smaller and smaller. Even if India grows 10% a year they will still be falling behind.
No matter how you call it, India is still very much having a colonial mindset and dares not confront its masters in a forthright manner even until today. India should a leaf from China if it ever wants to be seen as a powerful nation.
Ohh really, Could you please also suggest India how to do that. Its Chinese who have more colonial mindset than us. You want to win in a game set by Westerners. Opera is an European thing. But Chinese built more Operas to prove themselves. While Indians don't even care about Operas. This competitive mindset to always win , act , wear and do things what west does is more among Chinese than among Indians who are following their own dressing and culture of 5000 years old. We are not obsessed with west, We only want development and poverty reduction with the help of West. China itslef got developed by continuously stealing, manufacturing and exporting things to west and we are just following on your footsteps
@@bharathithadigotla5101 for a start, do not join USA to contain another Asian country in your own neighborhood..Joining Belt and Road woudl be great plus being "constructive" as opposed to being "obstructive" in both BRICS and SCO ..
" India is still American puppet country"- Russian Foreign Minister
@@bharathithadigotla5101 Opera? WTF. In Geopolitics arena, India will always keep footing on both sides. Including following its colonialist masters. Instead of opposing it.
The chinese had to fight and die in numerous battles to free themselves from the European colonizing nations, india not so, they were given their phisical freedom , but refused to reclaim their indipendent minds. Today India suffer from a cronic strain of Stockholm syndrome regarding the Anglo Saxon peoples
If you have a spine, you should be able to think beyond the interests of western mainstream media.
These people derive their whole existence by serving their white masters and you want to take away their very reason of existence.
it is so difficult for India to understand China, not even close. Well I respect the interviewer's professionalism. I sense a strong underlining negativity towards China by India. As I know, Chinese are very surprised why China and India can not be friend. Clearly, India does not want to be friend of China, due to complex reasons underneath.
because china's poor leadership duh.
Are these indians not aware what they did to the Chinese while under British rule
@@Ravi9A Says the colonized mind of the typical Indian. Still worshiping the white man. If China's leadership is poor how do you explain India being so far behind China in every economic, social and military metric. This must mean that Indian leadership is a lot worse than China's.
@@Ravi9Apoor leadership who lifted 800 million of its citizens out of poverty?
@@bobbylow175 Yes. Selling the future to enjoy in the present is always inept.
India needs to get over the feeling of humiliation of 1962 and make a more objective assessment of the China situation. The world has moved on, we are held back by our resentment and chagrin at 1962.
Nehru
You are very right. I can only agree.
Indians react with anger when people from Europe make them aware of this trap. The reaction is: you have let us down when Pakistan attacked us. But these words they address towards Eastern Europeans who have been unfree themselves and never did anything hostile towards India.
Two Chinese bots talking to each other. Good keep it up 💯
Who is this we you refer to. For the Indian masses it doesn't matter much, if at all.
@keanphenglim5179 I mean it was indian soldiers under British command that humiliated china so it makes sense
India can be best described as an odd country in Asia. China never sees India as a rival as it does America. Oddly, India treats China as its enemy and cooperates with its colonial masters to contain China.
Indians had an inferiority complex.
It is because of racist politicians
India WAS PRIMARY PART OF THE 2 OPIUM WARS , WESTERN POWERS AGAINST CHINA . wESTERN POWERS COLONIAL WARS WITH CHINA , cHINA REVALUTIONARY WAR wESTERN PROXI ARMY . INDIA SUPPORTING WESTERN POWERS AGAINST CHINA ON ALL COUNTS. YES
Nothing odd. Japan and SKorea are part of the west too. India views China as a threat due to border issue and Pakistan, naturally India will move closer to the west. Basic strategic logic really, nothing to do with colonial.
Tibet was a part of China before it broke up after the European Invasions. India did not exist as a single nation except after independence from Britain.
Wrong... India is defined as a nation called as Bharatvarsha in rigveda as land between mountains and sea...so a single unit as a civilization was always in the mind of the rulers :)
1000 years from now India will be still talking about Mandir Masjid and toilets. The gap between India and China is only going to increase
r u serious? i mean even 1000 years later
@@fannyalbi9040 it's been happening for 4000 years already🙂
From the early 18th century, the Manchu-led Qing dynasty had consolidated its control of Tibet after defeating the Dzungar Khanate. when qing dynasty fell in 1911 China was very weak. Dalai lama who believes in keeping slaves. Slave owner serfdom Tibet. Tried to declare independence in 1950 . Maybe on America's insistance. Because America lost China to communist party. America and NATO fought China in Korea and Vietnam and were thoroughly defeated by them
Actually Tibet was a part of China as far back as the Tang Dynasty. This gentleman was wrong that the border existed in the 1950s after China "invaded" Tibet. As far back as year C. 620 - 680 the Tang princess Wencheng was married to the first king of Tibet and founded the Jokhang Temple in Lhasa. The reason that the Chinese send in troops in the 1950s is that Tibet, abetted by western powers, tried to break away. The central government of course sent in the troops. It is no different from the Spain government sent in the troops to Cartalan when it tried to declare independence. Other examples are central govbernments of respective countries send in troops to Northern Ireland, the Canada Quebec FLQ, Kashmir etc.
@@cheeho9698 At that time I believe Tibet was a neglected chinese province when the british easily wrested it from them because china was weak, fractured and distracted with internal problems. Before the british withdrew, they convinced the tibetan to declare independence. it was only in 1950 that was able to annex Tibet back to China.
@@cheeho9698 India wanted Tibet, if not, make it into a buffer state. Indian DPM Sardar Patel publicly stated it. In fact, Tibet was the real cause of dispute, not the border which Zhou Enlai was willingly to compromise. You may not know, Nehru supported Tibetan revolt, gave Jenkhentsisum a military base in Kalimpong, West Bengal.
That's why official India stand is, China invaded Tibet. Even though British recognized Tibet as China.
Tibet has been part of China for centuries, just check the map of Chinese empire in Encyclopædia Britannica published in the past. To say otherwise is against historical facts and wrong. In fact this is the root cause of the untrust in India-China relationship.
Shyam Saran was trying to change the narrative at 1:28. Good try!
And the whole of the North Eastern part of India, South Tibet, Assam, Manipur etc. were regions illegally annexed by the British and illegally gifted to India, even before their independence.
India shouldn't occupy Sikkim, only to accuse the Chinese of occupying Tibet! This is utterly shameless diplomacy! The status of Tibet as an integral part of China has already been recognized by India, and Beijing has official documentation to back up its claim! There will NEVER be peace between the two Asian countries, if India keeps coveting Tibet. Anyway, why should New Delhi even make territorial claims, based on illegitimate British colonial occupation in the first place?!! This is clear betrayal of Asian brotherhood between China and India.
😂There's also a map where Tibet colonized China and essentially made it Tibet. And Tibet was part of India since ancient times
@@sounakchatterjee2694 India today is nothing more than a relic of British colonialism, and the Islamic Mughal empire before that, evident from its most iconic man-made structures such as the India Gate, Red Fort, and Taj Mahal. So Tibet would adopt the Sino-Tibetan language family, despite being part of India since ancient times. Hmmm 🤔 Had China been colonized by Tibet, then all the more Beijing should control this region to neutralize possible future threats to Chinese national security. 😉 So would India really like to claim ownership over Tibet, thus assuming responsibilities for any Tibetan transgression against China? I would gently remind Indian leaders to think extra carefully about making territorial claims with neither credibility nor responsibility of a serious nation.
India wasn't a country when the British colonized that sub continent. India only became a country in 1947. The British united the different kingdoms under British rule which led to the present recognized country of India. So references to India as a country pre-independence is misleading. India pre-independence was a British colony without "democracy".
Amazing interview, I have amazing friends from China while living in Germany. They are awesome people very kind, open-minded and helpful, I'm planning to visit China in 2023 to meet them❤️. Please note I'm not talking about their government and politics, normal people they are awesome! To be fair many Chinese also have good opinion of Indians and I have a good opinion on Chinese. If all the border issue and politics things are resolved I believe we would have a great cultural exchange!
I just visited Pune last week and I can't say enough how warm and welcoming Indians are. As a Chinese, I feel the same that it's such a pity the two country has this border issue that prevents the two great civilisations coming close to each other.
Chinese partnership with Russia, is the only way to counter 400 years of Anglo American hegemony. To destroy the western monopoly the amalgamation of the world's largest country with the most resources and the world largest factory will be a game changer.
In fact, India is a poor and a weak country and can't be expected to play significant role internationally, unless it gets strong economically. To say that we are a democratic country is nothing but a joke. See the kind of corruption everywhere , from top to bottom, and our delusion about being a significant player globally.
To say that there is a democratic country anywhere in the world is a very sick joke. Democracy in a very undeveloped form was tried 2500 years ago in ancient Greece, but was snuffed out early by 400 B.C., having lasted about 60 years. Plato the philosopher & Aristophanes, the poet of Old Comedy, were 2 of its opponents. Today
57 varieties of fascism prevail and totalitarian fascism has reared its head in the EU with von der Leyen expressing support for compulsory gene engineering on the people of Europe, contrary to the Nuremberg Code, which treats compulsory medical treatment without a subject's consent, as a crime against humanity.
When the 8 nations gang up and attack China during the sacking of China summer palace, the British army is staff by English officers but the rank & file is Indian soldiers. Now that Indian in modern times is trying to take the moral ground of being democratic but look at the progress they are making.
1) As a Chinese, I can say for sure we do not have this "illusion that we dominate Asia", the common consensus in China is that the US is still the power to beat. though we are closing the gap fast.
So I have no idea where did this expert get this idea that China thinks it's the dominant power in Asia, and even in Official policy releases in China, it constantly speak of closing the gap in some fields with advanced nations.
From a Chinese perspective, we see India as having delusion of grandeur, with your $3 Trillion dollar economy, We see an India that constantly tries to measure itself against China.
When our country added $3 Trillion dollars worth of GDP in 2020 alone.
Chinese respect strength, we may not like the US, but we respect them, it's hard for us to respect India when our vloggers films India and the most we see are dirty streets, rubbish and poverty everywhere.
2) Our perception of India is not really that influenced by the British colonial period. Not even the 1962, China never really made any films about that war, which says a lot about how unimportant it was to us, because we EXPECTED to defeat India.
Instead the wars that are most popular in the film medium are the Sino-Japanese war and the Korean war, even the war with Vietnam in 1979 had a more prominent presence than the 1962 war with India
3) quad, west blah blah blah, when EU companies were asked just last week by EU Chamber of Commerce in China, 75% of the EU companies say they will INCREASE R&D investments in China.
coupled with the rise in Chinese EVs as well as a whole host of other industries, it's not hard to see why.
Money speaks louder than political rhetoric, No one is investing in India over China, this is just a fact, and it matters very little if you are in your Quad or not.
Thorough assessment.👏
As an overseas Chinese, I agree with your view. Not in Chinese Psyche to dominate the world. It is too much trouble and hardwork. Unlike Indians, we dont even want to beat up our wife. We respect our parents and leaders but in return we expect them to take care of us.
That is why in most countries in the world, the Chinese community work hard and keep the internal peace and balance. The problem with India is their loud mouth media who talks with no evidence especially American owned Wion.
Doesn't the China try to show itself as weak to make its competitors underestimate it then pounce? The fact is its very difficult for Chinese to become friends with Westerners, they don't talk about themselves, and they only want to use you for English practice they don't want to talk to foreigners in Chinese.
@@myhhlim as an Indian we don't give importance to Wion i suggest you don't either
@@sanjaycasula570 I have been to India more times than to China. I actually learn many things from her and the people. You made a great comment and represent India well.
Cheers.
given his background, Saran has to stick to the stance of the border claims, probabably he does not have much faith in his own reason; Simala "agreement" is a farce and has been debunked by Singh's book (Saran tried to tied the hand of China by saying it was signed by China representative instead of Tibet local authority which lack the central authority) he used a map in Qionglong time to refuked the claim in the western line but ignoring all other circumstances... It is time the Indian govt think seriously about negotiate with the Chinese gvot for a peaceful settlement as the status only hold back India rather than China - boundary is jut a few hundread KM from the capital of India and once Dalai pass away, the Tibet card will be nothing and the Ladakh/ South Tibet will become a headache for India in long term as it may want to form an independent state. The mentality of the Indian govt is always try to dominate its immediate neighbour and they veiw Tibet as such only. That is the reason why China need to guard against India. China (as all big countries towards smaller countries) does the same but the way of India is so oppressive (e.g. Nepal embargo, Bhutan's vassal status, Sikkim total absorption, Goa's invasion...) make the big difference. India should use its energy and time in making its people life better rather than inherit the British mentality of colonialism. the problem that all the elite in India speak fluent English means that the policy will neverhtheless shaped by its language root unintentionally and the interest of the vast majority of the Indian will not be directly benefitted (that is at least 70-90% depending on the ways of counting!) So that is why the Chinese thinks the independency of India in incomplete - they are ruled by India externally but the heart and deed are colonists.
Indians are still suffering from colonialism of the mind. India inheriting the English language and the British parliamentary system from Britain is cultural genocide.
Very insightful, you should do a youtube video yourself. It's good to see other views backed by facts.
You are absolutely right. India has foot in colonial mentality. Majority of them think white people are more superior. So, what country of color they get along with? Ah, they forgot to look in the mirror.🤣
@@sinnywinny13 then speak Indian languages
All I can observe as an Indonesian is, it is amazing how white people(the west) can make neighbours turn against one another. China and India should be good neighbours instead of hostile toward each others.
The US offered India and Dalai Lama large sum of money, so Dalai Lama could ran away to India.
If I remember correctly, Egypt was the first supporter for Indonesian's independent, due to Muslim's population of Indonesia.
Indonesia also helped Pakistan defeat India in the name of Islam solidarity. And no, I am not a Muslim. I am a Buddhist Theravada live in Bali. And I think what we did was right.
Indonesia even helped Singapore got its own independence and against Malaysia in the past, simply cause Malaysia was a pet of British, much like India.
I think India could be friends with China again, by giving back dalai lama. China in return won't patrol their Southern border just like the past.
China could fund their money to Pakistan and Afghanistan to wreak havoc upon India easily through terrorism. Not to mention, lately India has been so vocal against Islam. It ll be like oil to fire when China funded Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Knowing India's history where the Prime Ministers have been assasinated many times, all I can say is, be good to your neighbors.
Also the Host with white hair sounds like a douchebag in real life from how he talks.
Yeah that’s Karan Thapar and he IS a douchebag
Lol...you sound more chinese than from Indonesia. India is smart enough to outplay China in the long run. China stole a lot of defence secrets from US. Now it is an economic power. India will defeat China with its brain. Chinese economic growth started in 1977, they were open to accept investments and globalisation early on. That turned in their favor. India is catching up on all fronts. It's consolidating and building it's military might. It's a matter of time that China will return our land to us. We might have to fight a bloody war or an economic war with them and liberate our area of land in their illegal possession..that day could come soon. If china is smart, it'll settle the border dispute and make peace with India.
I am Chinese, this person does not understand China at all, can be said to have no understanding of the Chinese people's ideas
@@autumn5905 he certainly love china, consider all the opposite people here, we need more people like him. behave yourself more to others want dont necessary make them like you, we need do things our way if we are as strong as US then we wont care what others say about us no more.
@@xiaogangdasha I don't love China nor hate China. I just think neighbors like India and China shouldn't be pitted against one another by white people from the west.
India won't stand a chance against China,. They got beaten up many times by Chinese soldiers, the last one was years ago before the pandemic if I remember correctly. Imagine if China uses its military technology. Hand by hand combat and India was smooshed like Indian's Lassi.
If China wants to destroy India from the inside, all China has to do is donate some money to ISI (Pakistan CIA) and let Pakistan wreak havoc on India, making some more "Mumbai Hotel".
If an Indonesian like me could think of such an idea, I am sure China would also have thought of that as well. India should be grateful, China has no intention of doing so. We all know China is capable of doing so.
If I were India, I would definitely hand back Dalai Lama, or if that sounds cruel. Then I would just kick him out of the country and rekindle a good friendship with China. Maybe offer Dalai Lama to England or US. I don't want to become another nation's pet, and I don't want to do another nation's dirty work.
That would save India time, money, and energy in keeping the border. Just like what India is doing now with Nepal for ie. I am sure India and Nepal don't butthead as tight as India is doing with China. Even better that will add China to India's ally if India needs something in the United Nation.
India will have China keep Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Bangladesh in check. If India wants to go right like they are under Modi now, and suppress the rising of radical Muslims, or add radical organizations into radical ones that the west opposes, China could have used their Veto to protect India. Or even with China becoming India's ally. Then India could add Pakistan and Afghan, to be a new regional power.
The UN used to boycott Indonesia around after 1998 and wanted to give Indonesia sanctions. Because Indonesia used to have a good relationship with Cuba, our ex-President (Megawati) brought and lifted up a Cuban Cigar and yell "Cuba, Cigar, Soekarno". Then Cuba understood that sign and lobbied other African countries to vote no to sanction Indonesia.
I am Indonesian, a Buddhist Theravada who lives in Bali. Indonesia needs China and India, and vice versa. I don't hate China, I don't hate India. But what India is doing right now is risking and endangering itself. In international news, we get lots of articles about Indian politicians provoking or insulting Muslims. I live in Bali, a majority of Hindu people, but different kind of Hindu than from India. It also puts Bali people at risk, imagine the radical Muslims taking all the anger and pouring it into Bali, making another 'blast' because they think Hindus in Bali are the same as Hindus in India.
I wonder if any Indians understand why India still retain British legal system and calls itself an independent state.
India, well most of them, don't have any conception of a nation. They are as Jayant Bhandari says a deeply feral and tribalistic people.
15:58
not because they were very minor incidents but because Nehru over estimated the indian army capability and under estimated the will of the Chinese people
Nehru had a british trained army well equipped an airforce tanks and an economy that was three times the size of Chinese economy
China had just fought a war with USA in korea - was having strained relations with USSR
its economy was still stagnant due to sanctions by the USA and embargo on import of fertilizers from the west and problems with import of antibiotics and pharmaceuticals from the west ...
The Indian administrations never in their dreams could have imagined that such a weak China could ever attack and over run the Indian frontiers
The indian tanks were useless in mountain warfare - their will proved to be weak (no matter what the Indian bollywood propaganda may say) the truth is around 3000 Indians surrendered without a fight... and they were taken to Tibet as prisoners of war.
Tanks were not the issue, te troops were ill equiped and supplied, isolated by poor transport logistics, all this was warned by generals a year or two before , Nehru was responsible for ignoring the threat
@@plinnytheother6107 what about the chinese .. you mean to say there were well equipped ?
no
they were worse
The Chinese had built motorable roads in Aksai Chin. Besides they were equipped with AKs back in those days and even MMGs whilst the Indian troops had to struggle to go to the frontlines, heavy artillery was difficult to deploy owing to lack to road connectivity, were armed with single shot rifles and some Bren LMGs at most, no proper winter clothing and no acclimatization because Nehru and Menon were of the opinion that Hindi and Chini were bhai bhai.
The PLA sent their third class troops meaning the soldiers were farmers getting their orders on the last min while India employed the elites (the soldiers that went thru Europe war, ow btw, the PLA elites were employed along Soviet borders just for your info.
@@sauravchowdhury4790
After the Indian army surrendered, the PLA clean and polished the captured rifles, artilleries and trucks returning it together with surrendered indian soldiers. 😁
Sad that the Indians are thinking like their previous colonial masters about China. This is understandable as India has practically ditched their greatest treasure, Buddhism, as to make them fail to understand China. Though communist, even among Chinese leaders are still Buddhist in their world view because of the tight intertwining of Buddhism and Confucianism and Taoism.
Drop the rhetoric and get a grip of the reality. One of the most prominent Buddhist leader of our time, if not the most, has been granted refuge by IND. I guess maybe you might look into the mirror for a bit and evaluate your own faults. IND didn't ditch any of their values, but our culture allows us to adapt or exterior, our approach to situations and scenarios as per the requirement, while still remaining the same at the core. If you can't recognise and understand that, it's your problem.
IND is still a poor country and also one of the least policed country if one considers number of police men and women per million. These two factors together is the perfect recipe for disaster, and yet if you ride in your BMW to a remote INDn village and maybe walk into any home for some water, the people would not let you go until they have fed you as well, let alone help you with water. Most importantly, when you get back to your car, there would be a big crowd around the car, kind of star-gazing, but you car would be safe and intact.
This can't be done by people who have given up their culture and heritage, to feed you even if one's own stomach is empty, to not snatch and forcefully take something which isn't rightfully mine. It takes a long long cultural history and resonance of the same for such things to happen. As I said, I guess you too should look into the mirror for a change.
@@ahamasmiarinm Lamaism is not really mainstream Buddhism. How can their leader be a prominent Buddhist leader?
China has many Buddhist leaders in their people congress, including the Panchen Lama, recognised as a leader of Lamaism.
@@madsam0320 Really? Are you serious? The highest spiritual leader of a country called Tibet, probably as big as China in land mass, if not more, and He is not mainstream? Why? Because CCP says so?
Do you think the entire world is obliged to obey the CCP as per your liking? I suggest you wake up and smell the coffee and stop making a fool of yourself in future.
But India was never a United country before British invasion.
@@ahamasmiarinm
As I said, what you're rebutting now exactly shows you have totally ditched and misunderstood Buddhism as to make you totally blind to other's but only to your imagined perfections. really look around your country, your politics, your MSM, etc. Buddhism would never encourage individuals to willingly wallow in poverty, that's the most glaring. Your slanderings and lies of China and starting those border skirmishes for politics have been also bloody Oscar winners.
Misrepresentation of the term "Middle Kingdom". It was coined some 3000 years ago by the Zhou Dynasty to define its rule over its vassal states around its territory centre around the modern city of Zhenzhou. This original meaning should not be interpreted to be the current geopolitical ambition of China.
Funny these ignorant Hindus don't understand is that this word middle kingdom comes from Hindus state raft especially Chanakya mandala concept . Many Chinese kings considered themselves as Ashoka .in 10 century along of China Qin Lao spent 19 years constructing 7400 stupas like Ashoka
@@sanjaycasula570 You do know that every culture has the "middle" in there language, it's absurd to suggest that a general idea "middle" comes from one source. Also based of translation, the chinese word middle does not fully translate into the english word middle fully, it also means the word "central".
Wrong! Middle is between the heavens and the Earth 🌎! Meaning very important kingdom. Alternatively, at the centre of all other Kingdoms, big and small... just playing
@@level1selamat155 you do understand that concept of heaven hell and earth are quite western concepts na they are not western but also Christain Concepts
Chinese culture is overwhelmingly Taoist and Buddhist where the God of Death is yamalok
This is an interesting interview, but the view is still more how Indians think how China views the world from an Indian perspective and in many ways biased and flawed. The part about Dhalai Lama, India thinks they are offering shelter because they are a democracy but you have to look a bit deeper and how the Tibetan society was during that history, the Dhali Lama was a king and there were land owners and the slaves/serfs. In China's view, they liberated the Tibetan serfs, they were no longer slaves. Also if you look deeper as to who funded the Dhali Lama, you will see that it was used to disrupt China and cause regime change, it has nothing to do with India as a democracy. There are other negative views, etc but I Don't want to get too deep into it.
China communist are tyrants don't try to legitimize cruelty on Tiber. Taiwan is civilized China is not.
yours clearly communist propaganda
China sees India, just as India sees Pakistan. A nuisance but not the stuff of nightmares. It's Pakistan which sees India as a threat due to its weak economy and internal insecurity. Similarly, this is a parallel to China dealing with India.
Unfortunately, India's GDP while growing is about at par with most of Africa in reference to per capita income. India is shooting itself in the ass by deliberately antognising it's own people and creating internal insecurities that China will exploit.
Karan Thapar as always goes to the heart of the matter and his host Sam Saran is lucid, insightful, thoughtful and has presented a brilliant analysis of the relationship of the two countries.
"The border between India and China is of very recent origin". Yeah that's because before 1947 there was NO India. It was called British Raj, and before that the Mughal Empire.
ya it was the british crushed the indian royal remnants not china. it was also british looted india wealth not china, go to their museums and witness it, compare china museums and british museums
And before 1949 there was NO PRC
@@fannyalbi9040 British didn't loot anything. if it weren't for the british there would be no india. there were tribal villages who were just surviving in a caste based society. they were never going to use those resources or find the use for the resources if it weren't for the British. British gave India electricity, modern medicines, ICE, modern construction methods, roads, trains, cars, buses, modern education system and many more. British could give 100 paracetamols, a car and a light bulb in the ruler's palace and they would happily trade for it. typical indiot.
@@parvadhami980 PRC succeeded ROC. Before that, imperial dynasty.
Sadhguru said - In India the leaders were ´Greenwhich´meantime English. In China Mao, Chou en Lai, and Chiangai Chek spoke Chinese!
Claiming that the centrality of the Middle Kingdom was a myth shows a continuing epistemic viciousness (knowledge vice) of India towards China. China was indisputablly , for over 2000 years, the largest centrally administered kingdom surrounded by relative minions - Korea, Manchuria, Japan, Vietnam, Tibet, and the nomadic tribes on the steppes. The concentric world view flows from that if nothing else. Why an Indian claiming to have profound understanding of China needs to dispute this "centrality" idiom today shows that India just refuses to come to cognitive terms with China.
probably to cover up the real painful feeling of being colonized for over 300 years.. ?
@@sinnywinny13 : I come to this channel to see if there is any improvement I guess not. Remember, USA brings no good to any country. I heard that al Qaeda is in India. You do know USA trained, armed and funded Al Qaeda! This is what USA does around the globe. Good luck to India.
@@sinnywinny13 "WE get that It is propaganda". Are you sure ? Karan's interviews are branded and sold honest (dare to speak truth), insightful work with intellectuals with real diplomatic experience in furtherance of bilateral relation. I don't believe that most readers are sure enough of themselves to judge this as propaganda. They swallow it whole.
Well, I guess you need to revisit the history of China. Yes, China had about 1500 years of rule by big kingdoms but they were across dynasties and this rule was interrupted very frequently by periods of rule by fragmented and warring small dynasties. It essentially meant that there was no continuity of concentric rule, nor it's concept. It means that large periods of concentric rule was just a coincidence.
Anyways, I don't have any issues with that, for kingdoms keep on growing, shrinking, changing hands, as can be seen world over. The reason I commented here is because you used the term "cognitive", as if this "centrality" of rule was devised purposefully, after research, deep thinking and planning. I fear it wasn't the case. It was just coincidence, Kings having big armies and good generals captured large pieces of land and it was obvious that the King would have the entire country under his own control. I mean, what was the King supposed to do if not rule from his capital?
@@joem0088 *There goes the half baked history and truth along with it.* The Chinese principle of centrality is itself nullified when we talk about History of civilizations.
The Indus valley civilization is way older than Chinese (You'll understand it later why I mentioned it.)
Secondly, it were the Indian scholars who went and taught in Chinese Kingdoms and many Chinese traveller's/scholar's like Fa Hein and Hieun Tsang etc infact took Buddhism and other traditions/religions of India to China which also resulted in the rise of Confucianism and Taoism which are way younger than Buddhism.
When your major Chinese belief systems and way of life aka religions are directly influenced from India and then you talk about centrality with us is in itself quite amusing.
*There's a saying in Buddhism:* Don't try to be a teacher, just be a good student first.
Just accept the fact that we've been teaching you for thousands of years. It's quite shameful for you talk about Tibet when in 1950's you were after the life of his holiness Dalai Lama. It's quite funny that you mention Tibet which is now annexed by China still follows Buddhism...gifted by India.
*How can you come into terms with an authoritarian regime that controls media propoganda and Internet meanwhile diluting historical facts thereby brainwashing young generation into an anti-india sentiment.* I mean it took 6+ months for China to declare it's dead soldier's count in Galwan clash which at the end too was reported to be wrong by entirety of global media...yeah, media propoganda again.
We've been slamming the west, the middle-east countries for their semitic and selfish views for decades meanwhile you've just started to do so.
*Basically your idea of centrality has zero real contribution and you deny the historical facts, that's why it's ignored.*
The most critical point that Mr Sharan has raised is the Modi Government’s inability to handle plurality at home. In essence the BJP is setting fire to it’s own home. “ A house divided against itself cannot stand”
Thats rubbish. You cannot have pluralism with a stubborn theocracy and at some stage, the world will have to reckon with this religion which wants to regress,
What about the Hindu Taliban created by the BJP? Do we want to become a Hindu Pakistan?
@@basusri1120 What do you suggest? Kissy kissy?
@@demontrader1222 religion 😂😂😂. That sums up your argument. India can't defeat China by becoming a Hindu rashtra or so called "doing something against one religion". The only way is The economy and that can't develop when society is not in harmony.
@@rudrankpatel379 I am from the West and in the West, which is advanced, the troublesome are contained. That is a tried and tested remedy and not the Gandhian way which is basically weak and inept. What you need now is a military and police that strike fear into troublemakers hearts.
It seems that Indian intellectuals still don't doubt *"democracy"* as imperial Anglo propaganda or justification of imperialism, being under British rule was a "blessing" so India could be in the quad, now participating in imperialism 🤔
Sadly so. And mediocrity will remain the lot of India until it unshackles itself from the yoke of Anglo colonialism.
India could have been a federation with a rotating monarchy as head of state.
ccp bot spotted.
It's funny to see how kindergarten students are having a "serious" discussion on what college students should study. IND knows what it's doing, it knows what it would be doing going forward, don't worry about it. The only thing that won't change is that IND and INDns won't have anymore masters, ever.
1980
1 USD = 6.5 Chinese Yuan, 1 USD = 7 Indian rupee
2022
1 USD = 6.75 Chinese Yuan, 1 USD = 78 Indian rupee
India is still being colonized by the west/US financially and spiritually. Top IT/CEO drain out of India and work for their colonizing boss, Indian general mass did not feel ashamed but proud.
US milltary base all around China:India: nothing.
Chinese economic investment around India. India:Biggest threat!
Most Chinese have great respect for India most especially as a source of yoga and Buddhism. They also have great sympathy for India seeing how poor it is. They don't appreciate though India's occupation of parts of Tibet, their inability to work on developmental projects together, and their collusion with the US. Hence they support Pakistan and it's India own fault.
We dont appreciate your annexation of Tibet, which was never a part of China. You Chinese people claim each and every part of land you see, claiming that your so and so ancestors occupied it in some mythological era.
Why dalai lama is in india?...the wire is fully sponsored by Chinese media...
@lin hai: What gets me the most is the bad mouthing. After the last clash, Chinese government discouraged citizens from discussing it. The government doesn't want the population harbor any bad feelings against India. India and Indians never missed the opportunity to bad mouth China. Yes, war between China and India is looming in the horizon if USA has it's way.
There's a big difference between IND and CCP, and it's fine if you don't understand it, as it doesn't change anything. Just look at your own comment. You say IND has occupied parts of Tibet. I would ask, what is CCP doing in Tibet at the first place? Tibet wasn't part of China when it came into existence in 1949, was it? Nope. Tibet didn't voluntarily join China, did it? Nope, it didn't. As a matter of fact, the highest figure of Tibet, His Holiness Dalai Lama lives in IND.
Moreover, CCP has territory disputes with almost all it's neighbours, and I bet you would say that the fault of each of those disputes lies those neighbours respectively, and CCP is the only saint going around, right?
So, you do what you want to do and IND would do what it needs to do, and lets see how the future unfolds for both IND and CCP.
MOCKratic countries are wired, espciakly India. Good Induans are all moved out
Correction : Tibet came under China in 1720, i.e. 300 years ago under the Qing dynasty!
Fact check: Tibet was in China’s control at various times in history. Certainly before India came to be known as India.
China did not exist as a unified country when the great Indian empires stretched all the way from Afghanistan to Indonesia
@@rickbarrington when was the word India invented?
Agree or disagree with them, it is so instructive to listen to two adults discussing issues affecting India-China relations unemotionally and objectively. It gives me better insights from the Indian's perspective. What a joy to watch (for a change).
Yes indeed, this was a very informative, genuine, and honest discussion.
Great interview as always by Karan Thapar, shyam saran sir your work is really inspiring, and healthy to India. India of 1950 draft of constitution should live on.
China is far ahead of india and that is the bitter truth.
wrong! our india is superpower then and superpower now! fact
@@fannyalbi9040 Andh bhakt
@@maddy20032001 shuddup!
Without strong economy it's foolish to participate in geopolitics game
India's illusion is that he is not aware of the illusion.
Ambassador Saran says we did not understand how the Chinese viewed the asylum given to the Dalai Lama. Did our Ambassador at the time fail to read the Chinese perception? I am sure the Chinese would have been quite expressive about their anger.
Quite honestly, our understanding of China has been the one to blame for all these years. From Nehruvian Panch Sheel, Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai to where we're at with our borders today; we've given the benefit of doubt to China then that disputes can be resolved peacefully and diplomatically. And status quo can be maintained with our current LAC. At least, we created the Dalai Lama and Tibet card as a fallback. The truth is very different; we need to understand that they do not want to 'understand'. The only thing they understand is power-play. All of this aspiring bully- Asian hegemon behavior was precisely predicted by Dr. Ambedkar.
@@prasvasu4217 just to add to what you said, the information provided by KM Panikkar and Vijaylaxmi pandit to india about Mao and Zhao Enlai had a huge role in how Nehru acted and behaved to China. They reported that both Chinese administrators are champions of human rights and are very keen on building strong relationships with India etc. Nehru, the mistake on his part, fell for these inputs despite warnings from many Indian leaders including Sardar Patel, who warned Nehru about China before his death
@@prasvasu4217 most ludicrous comment that u have made. It shows ur lack of history knowledge and intricacies of what had happened.
@@rudrankpatel379 I am afraid u r wrong here. Vijayalaxmi pandit (as described in nirupama Rao book) was quite right at judging the attitude of Mao and zhou. Both had different attitudes towards India. Mao was ambivalent while zhou genuinely wanted good relations. It was squandered opportunity with zhou that gave mao a chance to use military (remember zhou was a statesman while mao was a military strategist tbh a very brilliant military strategist )
@@aa-hb3tg well, what i said was based on Guha's India after Gandhi and Pradhanmantri Series.
karan stop ur lies buddism started in nepal buddah was born in nepal stop changing history and nepal was big kingdom at that time
I was hoping that the two countries can cooperate more. Sadly, India seems determined to the opposite. Well, what will be will be.
China does want to be a hegemony of any sort. We just don’t want to be bullied anymore.
Why is india so obsessed with how CHina sees India? 🙂
Much awaited interview! Thanks for doing this!
Great Interview.
Shyam Saravan you are simple the great Foreign Secretory , Frank & honesty in expressing your opinion.
Salute you both Mr. Sarwan & Karan.
God help us.
15:58
not because they were very minor incidents but because Nehru over estimated the indian army capability and under estimated the will of the Chinese people
Nehru had a british trained army well equipped an airforce tanks and an economy that was three times the size of Chinese economy
China had just fought a war with USA in korea - was having strained relations with USSR
its economy was still stagnant due to sanctions by the USA and embargo on import of fertilizers from the west and problems with import of antibiotics and pharmaceuticals from the west ...
The Indian administrations never in their dreams could have imagined that such a weak China could ever attack and over run the Indian frontiers
The indian tanks were useless in mountain warfare - their will proved to be weak (no matter what the Indian bollywood propaganda may say) the truth is around 3000 Indians surrendered without a fight... and they were taken to Tibet as prisoners of war.
Thanks Karan for bringing this interview .
Headline of the post is like title of the book with no need to go farther - What Would Amban-Adani and Gujju trillionaire provided IT cell , medium would propagate for this one , now ?
Very interesting talk and incredibly balanced in presentation -- especially by the guest. I don't know much about Indian-Chinese relations but do believe this short interview has given me an honest intelligent foundation for further study... looking ng forward to reading the book!!
You will certainly get a better foundation of the understanding of India and the beautiful Indians by living in India and totally immerse into their environment and culture. Of course, enjoy a good read of the book.
It is always a great pleasure to listen to Mr Shyam Saran about 🇨🇳
One of the best interviews in a long time. Thanks a lot Karan and Dr Shyam Saran
and full of propaganda and a dash of gomutra and lots of cow manure for the Indian population
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Nepalese_War
1786 - Tibet as a sovereign nation ceased to exist
and indian occupation of Sikkim in 1975
indian occupation of NEFA in 1951
and indian occupation of KAshmir in 1948 created the direct border with China
It was India that went and occupied andaman and nicobar
it was India that went and occupied lakshwadeep
and not the other way round
Nice interview, but he missed the Dr. Kotnis story, who is revered as indai n china's friendship until today, and Tibet understanding is off.
The irony for Indian is that British Imperialism is bad in India, hence its Independence Movement, but good when it got India extra territory from its neighbors, like The McMahon Line.
I don't see objective dialog like this coming from my native Australia anymore. Keep quality conversations coming it does build India's esteem
Gooď Discussion
I stop watching after the 2nd minute.. The speaker does not seem to be well read in china's history to give comment on India china subject.
he is well educated by his colonial master. He saw nothing and learned nothing.
FACT - The Chinese by and large are not concerned, aware of, or in competition with the Indians - serious almost none. The only time the word "India" comes up if there is a flare-up on the borders. That is why it is so fascinating for the Chinese when they are told that India is fixated about China and non-stopped comparisons are being made.
Spot on. We Chinese compare with others that are ahead, not with the ones behind. Even in the race, one must look at what is ahead, not what is behind. This person's book and its title will insinuate hatred among people.
So why is china encircling india?? And who says india is fixated on China? If China is not concerned about India, why do they put up roadblock after roadblock to slow india’s progress? You have no idea what you are talking about!!!
@@hongqi5734 Bold and arrogant… How quickly you forgot where China was 50, 60 years ago. Don’t be pompous now. China would never have developed if not for the generosity of the West. SO STOP BEING ARROGANT!! BE HUMBLE!!
@@ddb0831 The Western countries have been more than generous to India and where are you now? Ever since China's progress the US and its allies, including India have been putting up obstacle after obstacle in containing China's progress, so don't claim that they were generous to China. It is because of our cheap labor, that they have prospered and have been living in luxury with clean air to breathe while we had to live with polluted air.
I wish the interview was longer.Thank you!
perhaps one of the most insightful interview on India-China relationship
Lots of indian fluff.....
im one mainland chinese, i like this vidoe, nobody can be totally unbiased but this is one of the more objective one on youtube, though the bar is low here. :) that been said, i disagree the border issue obviously and west vs russia issue,
1 india always has been democracy and china has been more different than west, yet china had became the world factory not india and west is more dependent on china than india does, if them cant help india then why now, west is not as powerful as it used to be and china has never been more powerful in modern history. india shouldn't listen what west say but what they do.
2 about russia A, nobody else can afford west top tier weaponry except themselves and they dont sell them to anyone, i didnt see ukraine help themselves in the war, so how much can they help india. B, west especially EU is the largest importer of russia by large, russia has resources and china has industry, yet west is the big talker, themselves cant get rid those two but india can benefit more from them?
3 nobody can benefit from bad relationship from china now, despise the strong propaganda here, again ignore what west say but pay attention what they do, US is the largest trade partner of china, themselves benefit from do business with china but conveniently suggest others dont.
4 the problem between china and india is the border issue, and that we need to dig into history which i think everybody can find the truth if them want to or believe whatever more convenient, but only truth can help.
thanks!
Xie Xie!!!!
Glad to see real Chinese people on this forum. 🤗
*SOMETHING TO POINT OUT: as of 2022, China's GDP is 20 TRILLION U.S. dollars while the GDP of incredible superpower india is 3.2 TRILLION dollars.*
*SO IN REALITY: China's GDP is 6 TIMES THE SIZE OF incredible superpower india's GDP.*
China's GDP figures are a fake, It is a communist country without free media.
your figure is WRONG. China gdp is 2.0 trillion and superpower india is 3.2 trillion! we are still ahead of china.
@@fannyalbi9040 : *incredible superpower india WILL surpass the United States as THE greatest superpower EVER FOREVER EVER FOR ALL TIMES EVER in 2015.*
@@archstanton5973 yes! 💪 india
Enlightening. Hope these two greatest civilizations can work together for the betterment of mankind - at least for half of the world's.
indian minds are still colonized China is a free nation it has to be carefull when dealing with INDIA India has ANGLO sAXON PUPPET MASTERS. yes
Dear sir, the sudden burst of loud background music at the beginning and end of the show just about burst my eardrums as I'm using earbuds. For the sake of listeners, would appreciate if you would please adjust the volume accordingly. Thank you.
Truly insightful superb interview. No issue is unidimensional. But to explain the complexities and lucidly share within a short window of time demands a depth of knowledge and experience only the best like Shyam Saran can have. Its career professionals, intellectuals, thinkers, secretaries and ambassadors like him that makes our country balanced and stronger.
Unfortunately, the very first sentence uttered by this author is wrong. He started by saying China occupied Tibet in the 50s. Totally wrong and false. Tibet has been part of China for hundreds of years. Even the British empire when they colonised India acknowledged this fact. In contrast, India as it is today didn't exist until the British gave it independent not that long ago. And after independence India proceed to invade and swallow Goa, Sikkim, and South Tibet, now known as Arunchal Pradesh.
Sorry, but the guy started from a false assumption so everything that followed is wrong and false. He's basically parroting the Western narrative of fake news and propaganda against China and saying what India and Indians want to hear that's all.
He's ex foreign minister. It's official India stand that China occupied Tibet, even though British recognized Tibet as China. You may not know, India wanted Tibet, if not, make it a buffer state like Bhutan. Nehru supported Tibetan revolt, offered Jenkhentsisum a military base in Kalimpong, West Bengal. When the revolt failed, India hosted not only Dalai Lama, but Tibetan military which is still kept under Indian army today.
In fact, Tibet was the real cause of dispute, not the border which Zhou Enlai was willingly to compromise.
How interesting that they interviewed an Indian on “How China sees India”Next time, please interview a Chinese and he will tells you about how China sees India
great interview !
To be fair and objective, how would India have perceived the Chinese doing something analogous to giving shelter to the Dalai Lama and hosting the Tibetan government in exile.
The Chinese did actively support separatist movements in our NE states. They sheltered their leaders. So did others. The Brits sheltered Phizo.
Then of course there were the CP-M and the naxalite movement.
@@rmnair90 well the chronology of events still makes the point made by above gentleman valid. Sheltering Tibetan govt in exile in late 50s and then promoting campa guriellas 63-65 period led to the events u mentioned in 67-onwards period. Remember Naxal Bari happens in 67 and northeast separatism starts in 70s
@@rmnair90 you’d have to admit that NE India has been colonised by India.
@@rmnair90
If China are to support of CPI, do you really think India have a chance to fight back??
@@andrewlim7751 i think you meant CPI-M. CPI aligned itself with the erstwhile USSR. With the demise of the USSR, the CPI is orphaned. As regards the CPI-M, nobody takes them seriously - except some JNU types ... They really have not had a real leader after Harkishan Surjeet and Jyoti Basu
This commentator is vasty misinformed. Tibet was under Qing rule since 1720. Chinese contact with Tibet was established much earlier in Tang, Song and Ming Dynasties. The first few minutes of this interviews tells me this guy knows nothing about the history of this region.
He's ex foreign minister. Not that he was misinformed, it's official India stand. You may not know, Tibet was the real cause of dispute, not the border which Zhou Enlai was willingly to compromise. India wanted Tibet, if not, turn it into a buffer state like Bhutan. Nehru supported Tibetan revolt, even gave Jenkhentsisum a military base in Kalimpong, West Bengal. When the revolt failed, India hosted not only Dalai Lama, but Tibetan military which is still kept under Indian army today.
Once you eliminate your slums first, then all countries could not see India in their “Rear-View”.
I still can't understand how an independent India had a British governor as the head of the country. Slave mindset.
14:46
This is where ignorance of each other becomes such an important factor.
15:42
17:47
26:04
I simply LOVE CHINA....because it has XIAO ZHAN!!!! 🥰😍😘
Really enjoyed the interview
Beautiful . Time for india to know its place.
Basically, Congress always feels that India should play second fiddle to China. Its one of the reason why Congress allowes China dumped its manufactured good and at the same time, demolished our own industries thru leftists unions. Now that BJP, a party that only concerned with India ruling now, China cant digest that an assertive India is emerging. Hence all this tensions!
@Cool Sparkz being loyal to one's country or being nationalistic should not misconstrued as fascism. What made you to think that China is not fascist!
@Cool Sparkz Hindus and RSS never consider themselves as superior to anyone or any faith. You must be a leftist to conclude as such!
Yeah its because india played second fiddle that we gave asylum to dalai lama. The delusions of your ilk is truly next level. As for manufactured goods may i remind trade deficit with china has only increased under modi, so your point of dumping goods literally has no relevance when even under super strong modi it has only worsened.
India is the one with all the tension because India is obsessed with China. China doesn't even look in the rear view mirror to see India and that shows how irrelevant India is to China.
You should talk about India's illusions.India should strive for better relations with China and embrace a new world order which China and Russia and should forget the Quad.
Not only Tibetan that separates India and China but also the formidable Himalayan Ranges and Himalaya has it's own civilization known as Monpa from Ladhak in west to the Arunachal Pradesh. These northern western and northern estern estates were independent and have different socio-political, religion and cultural carved out of distinct geographical locations distinct from main stream India.
Very good presentation. Thanks!
Excellent conversation between two well-informed scholars.
Fascinating conversation
A very interesting interview. I enjoyed it tremendously.
@HARI VIJAY SHARMA I am a senior citizen and luckily have visited India, Indian youths especially students were in favour of having friendly and peaceful relation with Pakistan. I found it very encouraging but government's of both neighbouring nuclear states are bend upon to sell hatred. Hatred brings no peace. Burning issue is Kashmir and as pet United Nations resolution this must be settled first then there is smooth sailing.
Look, everything is not dependent on India. Does pakistani youth want good relationship with India? Every month we see hindu temples being vandalised in Pakistan, we get reports of how hindus are being forcibly converted, how pakistani drones send drugs/arms to India.
If Pakistan wants peace, it should get its act together and prove that it is serious. Simply blaming kashmir will not get you anywhere. The majority of Indian youth would support having Kashmir than negotiating with Pakistan. period. So, think about what you want to do.
@@rahul3134 that same thing is happening in india what happened during ramzan amd miyan madar**** is recent memory!
Don't act victim indians are obsessed with Pakistan,you talk shit about Pakistan even to win municipal elections.
@@manu18190 Kashmir is not merely a piece of land. Its live people and their aspirations. Pakistan, if you are an avid reader and have a keen ear - you may appreciate the fact that Pakistan has repeatidly said, it will withdraw from Kashmir (its side of LoC) once India agrees for the resolution. Your status quo is the silent grave yards of innocent Kashmiris, who are pushed against a wall with every brutality that India does. Which nation can cage 8 Million people and snap internet and even telephone for a year, just to ensure savagery is not available on the internet? Is that the status quo you are talking of? Heck, you did not even spare those who have done Indias bidding all these years...Abdullahs and Muftis, the stooges as they are called in Kashmir! That my friend is status quo.
@@sunsun2822
What cage are you talking about? Indian kashmir enjoys more freedoms, better per capita income than Pakistan does.
@@madmax-bu6wt Read something mate. Dont let godi media waste your time. "" More freedoms"" - baat karta hai. India imprisoned Faroq Abdullah in Aug 2019 because, India thought he could gather more people! Freedoms! India is a coloniser in Kashmir and a brutal one.
Book China pe likhni hai par nishana Modi pe. Perfect example of 'Kahipe nigahe kahipe nishana!'
Karan, thanks for the very informative episode. Great regards from Pakistan.
Great suggestions by sharn💯👍
To my mind this is one of the best interviews every intellect Indian mind should watch to have the deeper perspective of Indian reality 👍🇮🇳
What indians will do after watching this discussion, nothing at all.
@@thenewshour3126 we will make prithviraj movie tax free 🤭🤭
saran is cleverly pushing a congi agenda through his books it’s subtle but not very smart
You need help .There is a difference between objective analysis and rhetoric
Are u a racist ? Seek some help pls "Slave nation " ?
India's share to world economy was 22% before colonization and went down to 4% in 1947 .She still became the world's 6th largest economy by nominal GDP and 3rd largest by PPP and u think India is a "slave nation " ? Seek some help
Enmity does not work much. Harmonious relation is most beneficial for ever. In fact China is the largest economic power in manufacturing, production, high tech, export and supply chain and raw and industrial growth. And we equally too have good market and developing need. Undoubtedly 1and half billion Chinese have the highest purchasing capacity even American can't afford or dream of. WTO had opened miraculous financial growth for China. Presently dealing with more than 90,countries. No communication gap should be there at any rate.
Harmonious relations with China are super hard to attain but let's hope that the relation normalizes. Frankly speaking, I doubt that Chinese establishment even wants that. Maybe with our economic growth (combined with a large population) we will be more relevant and this may provide incentive to harmonious relations.
What really matters is how we look at ourselves in today's scenario
Good interview full of substance. Please reduce the volume on the intro and exit music. It is rather disturbung
Great interview, which clearly brings out differences in the perception of China and India.
@Anand: Did he talk about India? I must have missed. Here is this Indian man talking about what Chinese think. Is he really qualified? I guess he got to eat too.
Very good discussion. Karan always picks the right experts in their fields 👏
15:58
not because they were very minor incidents but because Nehru over estimated the indian army capability and under estimated the will of the Chinese people
Nehru had a british trained army well equipped an airforce tanks and an economy that was three times the size of Chinese economy
China had just fought a war with USA in korea - was having strained relations with USSR
its economy was still stagnant due to sanctions by the USA and embargo on import of fertilizers from the west and problems with import of antibiotics and pharmaceuticals from the west ...
The Indian administrations never in their dreams could have imagined that such a weak China could ever attack and over run the Indian frontiers
The indian tanks were useless in mountain warfare - their will proved to be weak (no matter what the Indian bollywood propaganda may say) the truth is around 3000 Indians surrendered without a fight... and they were taken to Tibet as prisoners of war.
@@johnvalentino576 :Yep! India wanted Tibet. It was an invasion , not just a border dispute.
Excellent interview....
China is so far out of India's league, India needs to start comparing itself to other nations.
Its always a pleasure to listen to this Man, Mr Shyam Saran. So much knowledge, so much wisdom.