MA. v Karen Read Trial Day 4 Afternoon - Jury View, Transportation of Karen Read to Hospital
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- Day 5 Morning Stream: czcams.com/users/liveV9aksKZ0cYo
Day 4 Morning Stream: czcams.com/users/liveQoMLy_Ai0jc
THE DOCKET
0:00 Welcome
2:35 Jury View Footage
15:40 Canton Fire Fighter Lt. Gregory Woodbury Testimony
46:45 Cross Examination
54:40 Picture of Injuries
1:02:20 Canton Fire Fighter Daniel Whitley Testimony
1:28:24 Cross Examination
1:32:55 Canton Fire Fighter Jason Becker Testimony
1:58:50 Cross Examination
2:10:00 Court Recess For The Day
2:19:50 Summary
2:26:25 Q&A
2:31:15 Video Leaving the Court
2:32:16 Q&A Continued
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After seeing the vehicle and little damage today I’m just not convinced she hit him in reverse going 20+ mph like the commonwealth claims, and then only has a cracked taillight. I just hit a raccoon going about 25 mph and the entire grill on the front of the car is smashed and missing parts, etc. I really think there would be more damage. He was a big tall man. I know there is a lot more to go, but where are the ring cam/home security cam videos from the neighborhood? This case so far is sketchy. The details that have come out up to now are sketchy. The people not coming out of the home during the commotion is sketchy. Rehoming the dog and selling the house right after are all sketchy.
and he would have been able to get out of the way...
@@moniqued9715 Yeah, the damage doesn't match the injuries. In addition, if someone was intentionally hitting someone, it wouldn't be with the back corner of their car.
Plus we know the taillight was broken by her hitting his car looking for him.
One week down and I’ve met every member of the paramedic team in Massachusetts and learned how they clear snow from the front of the fire station.
No, no THE APRON!
The snow is the real mvp
😂😂
But did you learn how to get trained as an EMS? Because that’s very important.
I’m picturing Lally going about his daily life outside court. Asking his partner (if he has one), “what, if anything, would you like for dinner?”, “who, if anyone, did you catch up with today?”, “what, if any, plans should we make this weekend?”, “what, if any, do you see our chances being of lovemaking tonight?”
L🤣L
After the Depp trial, “what if anything” irritates me to no end
OMG, this literally made me spew my soda 😂😂😂😂 You win the replay crew comments!!
So romantic. If someone asked me that last one I'd probably just say "yes."
@@jtuttah objection, leading.
I also have MS. You know what makes it flare up real bad real quick? Stress. Also extreme temps aggravates mine as well. This woman's body was likely going haywire. Add alcohol to that and it's 1000 times worse. And speaking of the alcohol thing, I want to know if they did a blood alcohol test or something other than observing her physically like in a field sobriety test. My neurologist has told me that if I'm ever stopped that I have to inform them of my diagnosis because they legally can't rely on a field sobriety test for someone with MS. We tend to fail them even stone cold sober.
They did a blood test at the hospital, but there’s some issues with it so it might not come in
I have a note from my neurologist in my glove box. stress & heat exasperate mine
@@gingerbaumer7753 , yes heat makes mine flare up something awful. If I overheat I will pay for it for days. But when it's super cold, it makes me hurt. Like deep bone pain, it's awful.
@@NerdosaurusJules we are warrior goddesses & these police officers did a lousy job twice that night.
Total & absolute fuckery.
From what I've seen they didn't do a sobriety test on KR at the scene. They also didn't do a chain of custody alcohol test on her - that's what is normally done in cases of people suspected of driving under the influence. Instead they did an alcohol test after the fact potentially hours later on blood that was drawn by hospital staff for other tests.
I’ve been a prosecutor for 28 years and I laugh because your comments are exactly what I’m thinking 90 percent of time
Question. Do you think the judge's clerks are looking at social media comments and relaying any themes to the judge? She has pulled back a bit in her sighing into the microphone. Perhaps, we'll see her stop swiveling in her seat when bored.... She really does seem one of those judges who dislikes "judging".
... and 28 years? Wow. That's a long time to be in the DA's office.
1:52:29 Did he seriously ask “who, if anyone, was driving the ambulance”?!?!! SIR.
Bahahaaaa 😂
He asks questions with repetitive sentence structure like first graders’ writing: “I like this. I like that. I like .” *banging head on wall*
LOL 😂 that’s is the best!
😂😂😂😂 omg I’m dying at this. My brain literally cannot absorb anything he says and missed this, but that’s hilarious!
The robot, Jeff, was driving 😑
“Who if anyone was on the fire truck?” Answer: “no one, it was snowing and too dangerous so we sent it without a driver.”
🤣
My niece was hit by an SUV at the bus stop outside her school. Her injuries were severe, broken bones, internal bleeding, head trauma and road rash/abrasions. The speed of the vehicle was not much more than that of what they are testifying to in this case. Also the damage to the front of the car was extensive. I just can’t believe that John O’Keefe was hit by a car.
More specifically, struck only above the right eye and the only part of the vehicle to make contact was the passenger tail light!! 😒
Only makes sense if he slipped
Not even then@@melnee
“Your Honor, the state calls the ambulance to the stand”
“…which one?”
“No your honor, the fire ambulance. We’d like to speak to the truck”
😂
Prosecution: “Who, if anyone, was driving you?”
Ambulance: “I don’t recall.”
😂😂😂😂😂😂
“What, if anything, do you remember about the weather?”
1:26:00 What's a johnny? In my mind, based upon the testimony, I'm left with the impression that a johnny for a new psyche patient is a long the lines of a straightjacket.
EDIT: It's what I lovingly reference as a "party dress" and commonly known as a hospital gown
@@kimberlypettit2038 I know it's redundant, but the weather, specifically active snowing, seems to be a huge part of the prosecution's case. Good gracious, if you're the prosecutor and your murder trial hinges upon whether it was snowing or not, 98% of those cases, it's going to be difficult to get a conviction. L
The "What if anything,* style of questioning by the prosecution indicates someone never evolved from their professor in 2/3L telling them that if they cannot figure out how to get something admitted or to avoid any objections for foundation, just preface every question with a "What if, any," Amazing that a handful never hone their skills enough to stop automatically using this "technique".
I work in a car body shop. So I will tell you that the footage of the car with almost 100% certainty shows the car AFTER whatever may have survived of the taillight had been disconnected from the car.
In other words: It does NOT show the condition it may have been in after the taillight had been damaged by whatever- and by whomever.
Why do I say this? Because even after severe crashes, at least the frame (or housing) of the taillight usually remains in place.
And even if it gets ripped out, the remains would then keep dangling from the car by the electrical wires - because these plug connectors are tough as nails.
And I don’t think that a severe impact had even taken place in this case - because then, the surrounding parts of the car would show signs of damage, too.
So they likely took off the housing of the taillight in order to analyze it in a forensic lab.
I thought that! It looks like someone stole the light disconnecting it with precision !
It was absolutely completely removed!
Wow, this would be an interesting piece of information to have for the defense.
I was irritated by looking at the Back of the car. The parkinglots at our Apartment building are very Small. One day i literally rolled from a few Inches slowley, nearly Not moving Into the right Backside of my neighbours car. Right around the area of the taillight. The Impact was visable. There was severe Impact visable. I don't belive that there ist no other damage than a complete Missing Glass and no other damage!
Yeah it's been removed. There are other photos online of the taillight housing cracked with red pieces still left in place.
Replay crew this trial - and the fact that Judge Newman’s “Bring the Jury” is on the soundboard gives me life.
I said the same!!! 😂 Looooooving it so much 💜
I so miss Judge Newman! Especially with this one on this trial. Just her huffing and puffing alone is maddening, and I don’t like that the attorneys are not giving grounds for objection and she’s just assuming. I don’t like that not being a part of the record, either, because how are they making that part of the record when she rules but there’s no sidebar???
I only have one personal experience with this, but when I was attacked by a dog several years ago, my leg looked almost identical to his arm, several puncture wounds and deep scratches. I had a few more areas that were completely ripped open, but the less severe area looked just like his arm. I thought, “that’s a dog attack” as soon as they put the picture up.
The whole chat said the same thing.
I've been in canine rescue and rehabilitation for over 20 years and thought the exact same thing!! (Not that I've ever dealt with anything that bad, but I've seen dog bites.)
Judge: I dont see any reason to make this trial longer than it needs to be
Also Judge: lets re-number 200 exhibits and then have two exhibit numbers for each peice of evidence. Ya know, to make things easier
The judge gets paid by the hour
Before this trial I thought the idea of a frame was ridiculous. The more I see of the prosecution witnesses the more I think there’s definitely a lot being covered up and I’m not sure it’s anything to do with Karen Read. The thing that keeps niggling at me is I know a lot of police officers and it’s a brotherhood. Finding one of your own dead/dying at the side of the road would have them IMMEDIATELY treating it as a crime. It seems these police officers did everything to NOT treat it seriously which imo they would only do if they already knew how it happened. Not processing it as a crime scene stops there being evidence to prove who did it and stops the defence being able to prove innocence. They’re either the most incompetent police officers in the world who should be fired or they covered up what really happened. The whole trial reeks of murdaugh shenanigans and every witness the prosecution trawls out just highlights all the inconsistencies.
Yeah I dunno why it wasn’t treated as a crime scene if only for safety’s sake
This case is really separating those who can think critically from those that blindly accept what they are fed from the authorities and the mainstream media
i still think the idea that its some grand conspiracy is silly, but the prosecution is failing to make a case. My suspicion is he got into a drunken altercation inside the house during which the dog got some scratches in, probably thinking she was protecting her people. During that he was accidentally killed or severely wounded, probably from that head injury. The owners panicked and attempted to make it look like he had gotten hit by a car, and unfortunately for Karen she was the prosecution's only shot at nailing someone for this. I could absolutely see a cop calling another more senior cop friend and saying some bad stuff went down, can we make the investigation as low key as possible, hence the arriving cops not treating it like a crime scene. It doesn't take more than one individual in a senior position in the department with a desire to protect another cop to make that happen.
See I'm the opposite? Before the trial I thought maybe a frame but after I'm leaning toward an accident.
But he wasn’t one of ‘them’. He was an officer from another department. Blue line for sure but I think the line is thicker among your fellow department officers first.
My daughter's boyfriend lives with us. I often refer to him as my son-in-law when talking to people who don't know us well. I do it because saying my daughter's boyfriend is a mouthful and because boyfriend conveys a lesser commitment that what they have.
Lots of people say husband father brother whatever at a hospital so they can see their boyfriend, friend etc… because they’ll shut you out as not being family even if your the closest person in that person’s life.
Replay crew here... cannot stand this judge! She's like a boss I once had that NO ONE could stand. Talked like she was speaking to toddlers and micromanaged to the extreme. I feel sorry for anyone having to deal with her. I also can't believe these are prosecution witnesses - I feel like they add to the defense's theory more than the Commonwealth's!
The only thing I like about her is that she seems interested in hearing the witnesses correctly. But I can absolutely see that being interpreted as micromanagement as well. I think I'm easier on her since I have the trail in the background and not actively watching all the time. I think she would annoy me a lot more in that case 😂 I can't get over the sighing and I really hope no one in the room hears her...
@kissy01 I agree with you - I was being snarky but I actually do like some things about her too. She is great with the jury and the witnesses. But geez, with the lawyers...🤦♀️
@HopeForUs5 I don't think I'd gotten to the part where she started taking over the questioning yet, so leaning more towards the snark after that 🙈
And I absolutely agree with Emily that it's really hard to understand her without grounds. I support the "no arguing, just grounds"-rule. But I think I would be so confused in my own work if someone "corrected" me without grounds. I'd be so stressed by the end of the day.
It'll be interesting to see how this evolves. If she's this annoyed already, how will she be in 2-3-5 weeks? 🙈
I still want to know why no one ever came out of the house and why didn’t the police go to the house to see if anyone in the house saw or heard anything!!
They did go into the house, which was in the charging document from the CW. It's also in a motion filed by Reads defense in May of 2022. The interviews inside the house were conducted by Detective Sergeant Lank after being requested by Sergeant Goode.
On the morning of the incident? I thought the officer admitted they did not go to the house during the call.
@@gigis6790 we have heard now from those on scene that nobody came outside, not even neighbors, no sirens were used. Yes even on Jacksons motion filed May 16 2022 he states that witnesses were interviewed inside the house, the request was issued approximately 6.40am.
I don’t know if she hit him or not, but this isn’t murder.
💯💯 AGREE…no matter what, NOT murder…
Here’s the thing…it might have been murder, by someone in that house. It stinks!
Call me skeptical, but if no one recorded that the defendant said “I hit him” I don’t believe it. Everyone that has to document and make notes on what happened knows that what is said is important and should be put in the report. So, either they were incompetent in making the reports or it didn’t happen. The fact that there were so many other inconsistencies and mistakes is very curious.
Everyone who works with legal and medical documentation knows..If it isn’t documented then it never happened.
i came into this trial brand new and i'm shocked by how badly the prosecution has made its' case so far
trying to have an open mind but the defence are the only ones who have supported their case through the testimony so far
It’s hard to make a case around a really bad “investigation” and corruption. Even the DA is involved.
Just saw the photo! Holy cow! That is not what I was expecting when people kept saying "scratches". Those are not old dried blood scratches. Those look like a dog attack or other animal puncture wounds and scratches.
Hello. I just joined for the first time today.
I was a legal secretary for ten years and love to watch interesting trials, but I don’t have time for delays. Emily is entertaining, informative, and skips the nonsense.
Agree!
Welcome! I've been watching since Nov 2020 and it's continuously entertaining!
Honestly she's incredibly talented. To make trials with this level of repetition entertaining and fun is not easy lol
I was subbed pre depp trial but I loved watching her channel blow up from that. She basically paved the way for 'lawtube' by advocating for so many other channels in the midst of hers trippleing in numbers.. maybe quadrupling.. I think she was roughly 150 at the time and jumped to 700 by the end of it
That damage is not caused by backing into a human.
Defense stated in opening statements that she also hit the victims car when leaving to go look for him
EDB: my son was hit by a car going almost 70mph. ALL of his injuries were knee level & below. He even flew up into the air and hit the road with a shit ton of force- no head injuries. I want to know how he had no lower body injuries if he was hit by a car.
Oohh wow that must of been so scary. Hope he is OK ❤
Oh that’s awful! Hope he is okay
This is why I can’t understand how people can believe the states theory. What are they proposing, that he heard her gun it in reverse from far away and he leaned down and copped the brunt of her taillight with his head?
There’s going to be a parametric who took yoga classes with him and will say he was always just randomly standing on his head.
Also, when someone is struck by a vehicle, they don’t land like they’re sleeping on their back. The body get contorted. I hope I haven’t triggered you with my statement. So sorry about your son!
@@bluebell1 I think he was on his back because KR was doing CPR
My son passed away and I must’ve yelled and asked “is he okay” and every phrase Karen used 10,000x’s. It’s been 4yrs and I remember it all, but I can’t imagine being charged and reliving it. I know it’s a little different…this was my baby, this was her boyfriend, but still my heart is breaking for everyone. Especially Karen if she’s not guilty, but I only know what I’ve watched here. The state is making me so mad, so confused, so irritated!!
I totally understand. My father died in front of me and I kept saying no he's not No he's not No he's not.
@@LKMNOP you’re just like me…I can’t even say that word to this day. It doesn’t sit well with me. I’m so sorry to hear about your father 💔 same, I gave cpr, and it’s a nightmare. They pulled me away and wouldn’t let me back. This case is so hard and honestly at this point I’m believing she’s been framed. I’ve heard nothing to say otherwise!!
. I woke up to my daughter dead, did cpr until the police and ambulance got there. I was all over the place, screaming God knows what. I had no clue what happened and I continued to ask. I was also a FF emt. I have been on multiple full codes where there family is in the background frantically asking if they are dead. I think someone asked her if she hit him amd due to that it was in her head. Then one or two of the medics overheard her ask if she hit him, then after talking about it and listening to outside noise that's now how they all remember it. That was something I find hard to believe, they didn't think to put in their statement. I do not think the fire department is necessarily in on the cover up, rather a few Boston finest manipulated them with out them even noticing.
@JS-csnjjip -- 🎯
...and condolences for your daughter. 💔💜💔
@@stellaallbright4750 thank you
The judge is also connected to the Albert’s. In my opinion she’s pro prosecution and doesn’t want any evidence such as the arm lacerations revealed to jury. Being hit by a car isn’t going to cause those types of injuries!!!!
I knew nothing about this case before it started. Your comment backs up my empathic reaction to the judge. She is biased. It is not difficult at all to believe cover ups happen in this country (gah)
And the fact that she is constantly sighing at the defense but not the prosecution. And wouldn't allow them to delay the trial until after the federal investigation.
I do very much believe she is biased.
I agree about the arm! As soon as I saw those deep gashes, I immediately thought no way in hell a car did that!
Those injuries on his arm…that’s a dog. 1000% no doubt a dog made those injuries. That was not a car, that was a dog. I want to know WHY the homeowner rehomed their dog and if that’s going to come up. I’m sure it will, cause that dog went after the victim for some reason.
Before trial started, I was leaning more towards guilty for Karen Read… since trial has started and I’ve watched the witnesses testify, I’m leaning more towards innocence… I’m starting to believe that Karen Read was framed.
Yassssss! I have been following it for a while now, before the trial started and it looks very much like a coverup to me
And this is the state’s case so far…amazing
@@basicallyno1722 Seriously though! If I’m already doubting Karen’s guilt and starting to believe she was framed, I can’t imagine what I’ll be feeling during the defense’s case in chief!
I have not followed the case much. The second I saw his arms I knew it was dog bite marks. Anyone who knows knows.
I'm leaning toward accident. Now who did the accident I don't know.
As someone with MS, it is very typical that we repeat ourselves often. Regarding her repetitive statements.
Interesting. My MIL has MS and also does this. I didn’t know it was a thing.
Had MS since 1999. In 2021 was in a wreck with an 18 wheeler. Although nobody was injured, our vehicle was stuck on the dark highway in the middle of nowhere on the most dangerous part of Interstate 20 in east Texas (16 hours into our drive home from Destin.)
I just kept saying where are the police? Why aren’t they here yet? We were terrified that someone would slam into our car at 80mph in the pitch black. “Where are the police? “ I said it so many times. My husband just kept telling my 20 year old son go hug your mother.
I live in Dallas, where highway cameras alert first responders almost as soon as an accident occurs and police are there quickly with flares and flashing lights. After 30 minutes 1 volunteer firefighter in a tiny antique fire truck arrived. Where are the police? Why aren’t the police here?
The fear and trauma put me in an altered mental state.
That would be helpful to know as the jury. Also her facials which she may not have voluntary control over. I hope defense has an opportunity to explain some of this.
Does the defendant have MS? I have it too and stress is not something I'm good with x
55:23 Those marks are looking very toothy to me.
I was bitten by a fairly large dog a few years ago and the marks look very similar 🤷♀️
A few things to consider, house has Been in the family for decades and was sold, dog they had for 7 years was “Rehomed”. Carpet was ripped up in the house…. all after this murder occurred.
And they don’t know where the dog was rehomed too…insane
Also basement was redone
The dog could have also been rehomed to the "farm"... like not here anymore. At all... which could permanently get rid of that evidence.
I realize that's what you meant to begin with lol
It baffles me when I read comments like, “I’ve never believed in cover ups before this trial”. Really? lol Must live on on the West Coast Coast?
The best part of these lives is Emily getting worked up 😂😂
She's super charismatic. It's fun to watch someone with so much passion for a subject that has fun doing it. She's made for streaming.
I believe the scratches appear to be from a dog compared to what I’ve seen in the ED. ( Emergency Dept)
Dog bite through Jacket. Looks like the dog couldn't get a lock on arm. Slippery jacket possibly?
@@aussiemixedmediachic7406sounds like a sweatshirt is what I am getting, although, could be wrong. But, if he was in the house and had his sweatshirt/jacket off and they dressed him after..
I find it hard to believe a tail light would get all busted out by hitting someone in a driveway at a slow speed.
The footage very likely shows the car after the taillight unit had been removed by the police.
It wasn't, you can see part of it still in place from video on that day (don't know that video has come in yet) cops removed the rest
@@gingerlundgren-barron3594but birds fly extremely fast
@@gingerlundgren-barron3594lol your not seriously comparing a bird with a 220 lb 6'2 man
One of the biggest things for me that the defense brought up in opening is that the police officer whose house this happened outside of didn’t come outside when it happened. Even with it being so early in the morning, I would imagine you’d see the lights and hear sirens at some point. Super suspicious to me.
Right. I would come outside if that was going on in my yard and I am not a first responder.
I also think it's weird that they were surrounded by cops with no cameras?? And no one heard the impact? It would have happened way earlier in the night for him to be that hypothermic.
One thing I want to point out that seems to be a common misconception: according to the responding officers they did not use sirens in responding to this call. It’s not uncommon once they get into a residential area to turn off sirens even if they used them on busier roads, especially at night or early morning.
That said, the lights were on, there’s a woman screaming, hysterical, and you’re telling me not one person inside that house woke up? My dad was LEO for most of my life and was a very light sleeper because the kind of training they put you through keeps you on high alert at all times (he has severe ptsd now because of that particular training and doesn’t like going out in public because his stress levels spike significantly as well as has a lot of trouble sleeping). I just don’t buy it that no one woke up or came out. Unless they were all absolutely hammered and passed out, but it doesn’t seem like that was the case.
@@chelseaoconnor3261 I do agree about the sirens but the sound of the diesel engines alone should have woken someone up. And even if it didn't, a trained LEO should have gone out there to see what was happening on HIS lawn! I believe they didn't go out for fear of who would be the responding officers. I think he placed calls to all his LE buddies and called in favors before he decided to talk to anyone.
@@ThatGirlT77 oh I absolutely agree with you that the sound of the larger vehicles, the lights, the screaming, that’s a lot of ruckus. I am not at all defending them not coming out and I agree that it’s sus as hell that not one person came outside to see what was going on. I have my own speculations, but I’m waiting until both sides have rested before I make up my mind about what I can reasonable believe happened, but I don’t think it’s that far off from what you said.
I just wanted to clarify because a lot of people in the comments were saying sirens and I try to prevent the spread of misinformation where I can because there’s already plenty to be suspicious of in regard to the facts. High pitched sirens is still different than a loud rumbling engine so that’s why I feel it’s important to clarify. Again, still absolutely suspicious given all the other commotion.
The first officer said they received a call from dispatcher, that a family member called and said she was making these self harm remarks. I would like to see or hear that call log. Because believe her father denied that call
It really feels like the judge is biased. It may not be the case, but it FEELS like it. It Feels like she's already determined to herself that Karen is guilty and is just entertaining the defense. The sighs we hear. The drawl in her voice when she talks.. She's just off-putting. I feel frustrated for the jury.
Well it doesn’t really matter though…it’s a jury trial, but honestly it’s more just a Boston attitude.
@alanamarie8669 Right. It's just awkward to see imo. Especially after seeing other trials
She's absolutely biased, and unhinged! She's not letting the process take place, her constant interference is making the trial unintelligible.
I can't get over that they sectioned her because she was upset that her partner was in a critical condition. So inappropriate! I would be refusing to put on a hospital gown too! This whole case is so 🐟🐠🐡 fishy
@@florenceroses yeah…you and me both, but more curious the “who” that sectioned her and by “whose” suggestion or authority. Boston police are the most corrupt in New England and Mass state lead a close second.
So bummed I had to work and missed live. Just seeing the arm injuries. Those do look like bite/tear injuries! As a not forensic pathologist. But I've never leaned so fully towards the defense side during the STATE'S case
Maybe the the defense should ask the police officers how many times in their careers have they used a section 12 on a family member at a death scene
I really hope that the defense attorneys will read these comments. That was an excellent one.
🎯
The more this goes on, the more devastated I am for what Karen has been put through. All while managing MS.
My opinion could change, but right now I’m seeing someone who was broken with grief and confusion and then forcibly put into a psych hold before having the story spun on her. If prosecution has any good cards they better show them soon because every day makes me feel more and more like Karen has been wronged on so many levels.
💜 Same.
New fear unlocked - waking up in a morgue after warming up a bit 😮
You're not dead till you're warm and dead. 😂
Legit🥶🥵💀
I have heard those stories, but it does seem kind of odd. Aren't morgues pretty damn cold? And you're naked with nothing but a sheet? How in the hell do you warm up?
@@tadharsh678 ambient room temperature is warmer than 32°
It’s happened!
Not one of the EMS workers even mentioned the big gash on the back of his head... covering up the fact that he lost 3 pints of blood that just disappeared ...
Excellent point!! I wish KR’s defence team would have questioned the witnesses about this. You would think a large pool of blood would have been under his head at the scene.
I could have sworn one of the paramedics mentioned a pool of blood under his head.
@Maddieelovesu -- ONE paramedic stated what might have been a SMALL pool of blood. Nowhere near what would be expected, especially as the ground was frozen!!
Oh the fact she was so devastated and asking about the kids is awful. I truly don't believe she did anything to him.
That journalist drinking the Prime with stickers all over his laptop is Grant Smith Ellis. He is responsible for the loud typing you mentioned a few days ago. He is well aware his loud typing is annoying and distracting. His response was "it's my first amendment right" I guess his parents did not teach him common courtesy 🤷🏻♀️
I wouldn't even call him a "journalist." That's an insult to real journalists.
Where did you read his response?
His mom is…Wendy Murphy of duke lacross fame….
Anyone else think that it would have been fantastic if the founding fathers had put we all must have manners and be nice to each other in the Constitution??
@@goodgolly4726it was during a live. I can't link it if you want.
I live in mass, my partner went to the ER and I said I was his spouse so I could visit no one checked into that at all they took me at my word.
Anyone else feeling like they threw her on a psych hold to get her out of the way? So far, they haven't even proved he was hit by a car, let alone that she did it, or did it intentionally. I'm SO FAR from beyond a reasonable doubt yet. They haven't even shown a crime occurred.
This, they started with the incident, but so far all eye witnesses combine into:
Around 4 people say they heard her say she hit him, At least 3 people ultimately said they didn't hear anything of the sorts, and some people I can't remember if it was asked at all.
Of the 3 people who didn't hear anything of the sorts, 2 tried to say they did (the first cops), but backtracked when confronted with their earlier statements, and at least one (3rd cop and maybe 4th and 5th cop? Did we even have that many? They all blend together at a certain point now) consistently said he didn't hear anything like it.
Of the 4 EMT people who say they did, 2 (first 2 EMT people) explained to have no context, hadn't documented it, changed how and to whom she said it (both attributing that they solicited it directly from her and that it was said to them directly), and aren't credible at all.
1 (the female driver) did the interview at sight to have the opportunity, documented she heard it, but tried to get corroboration from an unknown witness that hasn't been identified, so it's a "trust me, they heard it too" without anyone that heard it too.... That person also reframed how it was said and whom it was said to.....
Then the final one (either chief or another one) corroborates what the other had conveyed in their initial report, in a tone that makes more sense, and had the opportunity, context, and why he was eliciting it down with confidence. Except that in this form it wasn't a confession anymore, but a question while she was manic and was actively trying to assess what was happening and what happened.
So the grand confession is a no from me at this point. They established that she likely used the words "I hit him" in that sequence, but not in the form of a confession.
Beyond that, all we have is that Read was at the scene, was hysterical and not in her right mind due to grief, but wasn't violent or aggressive, just manic. And that the police send her to a psychiatric ward when she came back to the scene and still hadn't calmed down.
We know it was snowing, with likely between 4 to 6 inches of snow having fallen since midnight and with poor visibility while driving.
We know there was no snow under him, but that his clothes were soaked, so snow had melted in contact with him at some point.
He was missing a shoe, was wearing clothes but we don't know what, just that 3/4 people said he wasn't "dressed appropriately for the weather". And that the clothes might have been intact.
We know that the police made multiple mistakes in their reports, that even at the grand jury they got the address wrong, and that they went about the scene with a snow blower.
We know the firefighters and EMT handled according to their training, and that they did their best.
We know he had multiple head injuries, but that the EMT described it being possible from being hit by a fist or a golf ball, neither of which seem close to being similar to a car driving into your chest....
We know he had lacerations on his arm, but don't know how old, other than that they weren't fresh and at least a few hours old. Could be days, could be hours, we don't know yet.
@@DyslecticAttackWhat I have also noticed is that everyone says "I hit him" as a statement. But did she say "I hit him?" With her asking a question and not making a statement. Meaning that she was questioning whether she somehow hit him? She was asking people not saying she did.
@@LKMNOPi think she was asking, frantic and trying to figure it out.
@@DyslecticAttackthose lacerations are definitely pretty fresh. They aren't healed at all.
They look exactly like new dog bites/scratches.
@@hnraj9441 if you say so, personally I don't think the picture we have conveys it fully since it's a fairly shitty quality. Plus I don't have experience with how freezing wounds interacts with them. So I want to hear an expert on how old they are as well as the source before I make my mind up about those. I can rule out a car being the source easily, and they look too deep and eratic for it to be human nails. But I can't say for sure.
As for the intent of the "I hit him", like I said, the most credible witness about her saying anything like it is very firm about it being a question made in a hysterical moment. It's not the confession the prosecution promised, but hey, maybe with more context it could turn out to be a drunken "I think I hit him, please tell me I didn't" question phrased in the shortest way. Still not a confession, but it might be affirmation if you already think she did do it and was feeling guilt over it while sobering up.
But I'm not there, not even close, so for now all it is is the unsure ramblings of a woman going through the most stressful moment in her life trying to make sense of it all.
I can’t believe they sent her to the psych ward… this is, what?!?
I think the police pushed for this because if they asked Karen for a breathalyzer or blood test they knew she would know to refuse but if they had her sectioned Karen wouldn’t have a choice, she would be forced to have blood work
Currently I'm on this point: for me state had not proven if she hit him with car yet (let's see more evidence). BUT if she did hit him with car - I cannot understand why it's charged as murder? Like WTF? 😳
I only know what was shown during trial so far, and so far I could see it treated as hit and run. IF she did hit him with car.
"What if any sort of" is driving me MAD at thia stage!
It's great to be starting to get some questions answered in this bizarre case. There's two things, though, that I'm still not clear on that maybe people can help me with:
1. Was it snowing?
2. Did they clear off the apron?
💀💀
Emily I feel as if the section 12 was deliberate. I think some cops knew the jist of what was going on and they were already starting the cover up. That’s just my opinion, so many things seem so shady but this sticks out to me along with why no cops that left that house seen John on the ground ?? And why that house and the people that live there were never investigated..
love being on the jury with you and all law nerds❤❤
I think they sec 12’d her to get a BAC. If that hadn’t happened, they would have had to get a court order which imo they wouldn’t have received due to lack of probable cause.
@@bluebell1 very astute observation! I had not thought of that yet. I think it was a push to do the S12 to help them solidify that she was guilty.
Yet not one cop, firefighter, medic has said or put in their report anything about being drunk. One medic sitting with her closely in a confined ambulance said he didn't smell alcohol.
So far, the Commonwealth is not proving their case. The defense is making me think she might be framed after all. 😅 This is coming from someone who never heard of this case before this trial.
These 1st responders don't seem to be sure of a lot
The brother of the victim is continually staring at the defendant as if to bore a hole in her head. Quite a show for the jury.
This! I'm glad they moved the family from being on camera. Seriously. I understand their pain and disbelief, and it should not be open for public consumption.
Prob cos she's sitting straight ahead of him.
I’m mean if I was the family, knowing all the stuff that seems suss, I would be sitting in that room with an open mind of what was being presented to me! They obviously think Karen is guilty but don’t they want actual justice?? If she’s innocent I would want to know that!
@@melissagilby3959I didn't get the impression from the testimony that they are sure she's guilty at all but maybe i missed something.
@@hnraj9441I agree! I don't think the family thinks Karen is 100% guilty. John's mother mimicked her lawyer on opening statements when he said "nope". I think all of the family knows something weird is going on.
1:50 - How dare she have emotions after a traumatic experience, with the blood of her loved one still on her. 🙄
I wish I remember who it was but another commenter had said did why didn't they ask the policeman how often they have called a section 12 on people in this situation. I thought that was an excellent question
@@LKMNOP That would be a very relevant question!
Is it normal for the judge to be so involved? I’ve been watching trials with you for a year now and I cannot remember any judges speaking to the witnesses or correcting the lawyers as much as this judge does.
I have seen it done in the past but it's not the norm.
In Texas, the judge is not allowed to question the witness when the prosecutor is not doing it correctly. Speaking to the witness (other than to say “go ahead and answer or not”) is way outside the acceptable duty of a judge.💜
"What if anything...." "did so and so say."
"Who if anyone..." "was driving the ambulance?" This one kills me so much. Someone was driving the ambulance!
"Why if for any reason..."
"How if in any way..."
The coverage of these trials make me so straight-edged because the costs are terrifying; I didn't even think about how the defendant had to buy a whole new car because hers would be permanently impounded.
Emily you make days so much better.
Love her
Pickle Pal 🥒 needs a band T-shirt with list of trial names on back, with location of case in question. Heart your face 💜
I'm completely 200% percent embarrassed to say this, yall don't know me or if I'm even telling you the truth for that matter. But I was mistakingly section 12'd in Indiana to the absolute worst psych ward in the state, during a snowstorm. I lived in a city with population of 9k, in a VERY RURAL area so literally things went awry. Medical professionals apologized it was bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. I had never even been sent to the principal, had waaay too many speeding tickets, never been arrested at 50 yrs old, been married for 24 yrs and got admitted because the hospice worker heard me say something alarming after my mother passed away. I was an only child, my dad was gone... I was grieving and basically got kidnapped by the worst mental facility in Indiana. My blood pressure got so high I was legit stroke level. It was like being sent to prison & couldn't get out! It happened on a Wednesday; blizzard conditions (nobody could even transport me to where "they" thought I needed to go. Small town, fewer ambulances, lots of crashes, small hospital & I survived off jello & crackers for almost 48 hours! By then it was Friday, no docs on the weekends..(now it's Monday) I had to see the psych doc so many hours a weeks & she could only see me 15min every other day. I was in freaking prison, in helll (people screaming i want to kill blah blah blah) little to no anything of a free citizen because I said I didn't want to live without my mom,five minutes after she died of cancer.
Omg, I love this idea!!!
1:10:38 what, if any, self-awareness does this prosecutor have? How can he not feel the witness, jury, gallery, judge, the entire world, cringe everytime he asks a question? What, if any, attorneys actually win cases with this strategy?
IF he or his staff are following this anywhere...here, other channels, CourtTV, Reddit, wherever...EVERY single comment I see is how bad he is.
💯% Definitely dog bite puncture marks and claw scratches
I want to know how he had a head injury in the back of his head when they found him on the grass
I was dying with laughter when you said " Dr. B is making Brussel sprouts! Ugh". Your facial expressions were priceless😅😅😅
Thank you Emily for covering this. I am trying to be unbiased but I’m finding it extremely hard to. Being a retired LEO there is just too many unanswered questions and a lot of SUS here.
Replay crew here! The judge was the one that said the numbering doesn’t matter. I wonder when she coughs on to the fact that it would be so confusing to refer to random numbers. (IMO)
When I was training in trauma response, we were told ‘they’re not dead until they’re warm and dead’!
NP…I’ve treated dog bites/scratches and cat bites/scratches in urgent care. That 1000% looks like dog bite punctures and scratches.
And between the shock, grief, and her MS…how she was treated is just despicable. After opening, I’m listening critically to EVERY witness the prosecution is presenting and the defense is poking holes in their credibility left and right. And I hold the testimony of healthcare professionals in high regard, and I don’t trust the testimony of most of these witnesses with how they’re waffling and didn’t put important information pertinent to possible mechanism of injury in their reports.
None of the prosecution's witnesses have been consistent. They've all impeached each other
I am a retired legal assistant that worked mostly in personal injury with boxes and boxes of documents. Renumbering them so they are in trial order is a nightmare for someone back at the office. I used 2 cross referenced spreadsheets one by number and one in alphabetical order. Think about this; what happens if the lawyers decide to change the order of the witnesses?
While Emily was out, I was watching another YT lawyer who said it is unthinkable to renumber exhibits AFTER a trial has begun!! Everything is already cross-referenced in multiple places, the current numbers are in the lawyer's notes, etc. This judge doesn't care about anything but her own convenience.
@@HopeForUs5 This is a nightmare for the administration staff!
Thank you so much for covering this with us law nerds❤ we appreciate you!
"What if any ambulance was being driven by what if any driver to transport what if any patient to what if any hospital for what if any treatment?"
I know a bit about this case via local media, however, I am trying to take it in like a juror. The injuries don’t seem to line up. Karen’s behavior doesn’t seem atypical of someone in shock and/or grief, and the Albert family seems very engrossed in all of it. Just weird. I hope we get to find out what actually happened!
Great coverage!
Ooo, I also have MS. That raises my sympathy levels for Karen Read a great deal higher; the stress involved in this trial is a horrible thing to put an MS sufferer through. Even being on a JURY would be too much for me to handle!
@EDB, my Labradoodle puppy scratches and (he's a baby), but when his new teeth get me, my goodness, he tears my arms up. Those "furrows" look like they're from a large dog. Not a car. JMO.
100%
I have 2 GSDs. I know those claw marks too well
@@Reporting4juryduty as soon as I saw those pictures, I immediately thought, "Those 'marks' had to be from an animal. That's not road rash."
19:26 it was SNOWING? That's new information? 😂😂😂
Color me shocked!
tee shirt idea"what if anything...?" on back "who if anyone...?"
On the the sleeve “Sort of…”
For real !!! OMG !! He gets on my nerves !!!
@@aheineman9138 other sleeve: “with reference to”
I'd buy it😂
And on the stomach area, The Apron.
I'm surprised the defense didn't follow up on the cops forcing the section 12.
I hope the defense will take the strategy from the closing in the Apple River stabbing case: remind the jury that reasonable doubt is _more_ than just not "maybe," but includes things like, "If you believe it's very unlikely Karen Read was framed for this, _that's 'not guilty.'"_ (Because it's true; you have to get to, "Karen Read could not have been framed for this," and/or, "Karen Read was definitely not framed for this," before you're in BaRD territory.)
This trial is joke. I want to see an actual video of her hitting him. With my own eyes. Otherwise at this point I’ve heard nothing to indicate intent. My experience malice would have been trickled in by the 11 th witness.
I’m hungry? What if anything will I have my dinner? What if anything will I cook for the rest of the family? 🤦♀️
I swear if I hear what, if any. Too much more, my head might explode. I can only imagine how the jury's feeling about it.
If I hear “What if anything” one more time, they’re gonna have to section 12 me somewhere!! 😂
Same. Hard same.
Just make sure you also ask the responding paramedic what their training is, how long they've had that certification and if they have needed to do anything to maintain that certification.
The constant “sort ofs” are gonna drive me to drink in the afternoons. Oh. My. God.
I am watching this and dying laughing with you so loudly when your honor said no more talk about taking snow off the apron
I swear if Lalley asks, verbatim, "and what if anything did you sort of do next", I'm going to call bingo!
In my professional opinion, those "scratches" on the right arm are consistent with dog bites. I'm a 23-year veteran Animal Control Officer. I also worked as an Investigator in our Potentially Dangerous/Vicious Dog Program, investigating severe dog attacks. Of course, I'm only saying they are "consistent" with dog bites. I'm not giving a 100% guaranteed analysis. Because, as we all know, this does not appear to have been handled as a homicide investigation from the get-go. Otherwise, I would expect that a DNA swab would have been conducted on the forearm to detect the presence of dog saliva. The swabs could have been done on the clothing, as well. And if those are bite wounds from a dog, they are from multiple bites. Therefore, there would have also likely been dog hair follicles present, especially on the clothing, due to the extent of the incident. People who are attacked by dogs typically put their arm up to defend themselves.
The clothes are said to have been in Trooper Proctor's trunk for several weeks before being placed in evidence. (This hasn't been brought up yet in the trial though.)
Does the prosecutor think ambulances drive themselves? He has asked more than once "who if anyone was driving". Um....
Reply crew here: I watched the video that shows the vehicle, and I’m so confused I just can’t see how she could have hit him to cause any damage if there was no substantial damage to the vehicle other than a taillight, which none saw prices of on or around the person’s body.
So - Day 3 - Putting out my theory. I'm pretty sure among the list of people at the house party last night was the ATF officer, Brian. I'm pretty sure during the defense opening statement he said in between the Aruba trip and the night of John's death Karen had a meet up with Brian (same last name as ATF Brian), that 'didn't lead anywhere'.... What if John and Brian got into it at the party and things went very wrong????
55:19 my husband who knows nothing about this case thinks these injuries are from an animal attack upon first glance. I work at a dog training company and my boss has an article full of dog bite photos and stories and this looks like a lot of those similar injuries. Looks like a dog bite on the elbow.
And would explain why they suddenly don't have the dog anymore
YEs, a friend of mine was badly bitten by a dog once, and I remember her wounds were very similar.
My friend’s dog was just happily excited to see me and jumped up on me. Made a huge gash and giant 6” long bruise through my jeans without tearing my jeans or even leaving a mark on them. It was on my inner thigh and my doctor didn’t say it in words but their facial expression made me think they thought I was lying and hiding some kind of assault or rough *** thing. I guess it didn’t help that I had previously come in COVERED in scratches from a traumatized cat I was fostering.
TY chat for clarifying what a “Johnny” is because I was wondering if it meant a straight jacket and I was freaking out a bit.
Johnny sounds like it could be a straight jacket I agree lol
It’s a hospital gown 😂
Oh oh you got the answer! I see! Lol reading late!
Funny thing is here in the UK its slang for a condom lol
@@helensmusings Oh, that's funny!
i hope defense has a really good animation witness to recreate this supposed "hit and run" cuz....the physics ain't physic'ing
Em, the first cop said there were 3 women when he got there and I think the second cop did too- but everyone else, including all emts and firefighters said only 2 women were there. This means that one of them went in the house or left the scene *before the emts ever even showed up*. This case is somethin.
Oh and I haven’t yet seen anyone refer to her returning either.
Yeah but I think what Em means is that they could have dropped her off somewhere when they first left the scene before coming back.
@@hnraj9441 oh yeah, I was just nailing down the timeline a bit more for us because she had mentioned that 2 vs 3 difference in some of the testimony but wasn’t sure when that change occurred. It definitely changed to 2 after first police but before first emt/fire, which is wild to me because no one ever mentioned that the 3rd woman returned. Did she really just slip into the house before paramedics even got there?! I could understand if it was to go and get first responder (!) Brian Albert and bring him out to assist with life saving efforts but that definitely didn’t happen!
Emily, I love your channel! I had a much better post than this but I lost it. I would not have believed the car video with the guys talking, but I live near Boston, and I have two words for you: Whitey Bulger.
Corruption runs rampant even though he is no longer with us.
P. S. I love your hair!
I witnessed my friend get hit by a car. The only "scratches" she had were road rash style. Those scratches, especially under a sleeve, seem odd. There are so many odd things about this case so far. Im very intrigued and not sure what to think yet. Very interested to see how this unfolds
I just found you this week. You make following this trial so much easier. Thank you for cutting through the brush.
Welcome.
Thanks EDB!
1st time to your show, Emily. Love your knowledge and your humor.
In Canada if you live with someone more than three months , you ARE a common law spouse...might be like that there too
It’s not unfortunately, but they were together for over 2 years. Karen staying frequently 4-5 times a week at his house, even though she owned her own. They had also dated years ago, not their first time as significant others.
In many states it can be after 6 months. But yes we have it here too
No way did those injuries come from a suv. If i wld already have so much doubt