Savage & North "Figure 8" Revolver
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Designed and patented in 1856 by Henry North (the grandson of company founder Simeon North), approximately 450 of these revolvers were made between 1856 and 1859. A first prototype was sent to the Washington Arsenal for examination in June 1856, and its successful testing led to an Ordnance Department order for 100 more. These were delivered in June 1857, and additional orders would follow. In 1859, the company was reorganized as the Savage Revolving Fire Arms Company (Henry North had been an employee, but not a partner) and the design was improved to what is today known as the Savage Navy revolver. These would prove much more successful, with about 24,000 produced during the Civil War.
The Figure 8 has an interesting action which allows rapid fire without altering the shooting grip, unlike the contemporary Colt designs. It also has a cylinder that cams forward and back, to seal against the barrel when firing. It has a six shot cylinder, caliber .36, with a 7 1/8 inch long barrel and a weight of 3 pounds and 6 ounces.
Savage Navy revolver:
• Savage Navy Revolver: ...
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It's nice to see a story about a cool, innovative design that doesn't end with "but the army didn't want it so it failed commercially and the company went under".
Right? I was expecting that turn, but it never happened!
Or ends with “they were successfully sued for a gagillion dollars for patent infringement and went bankrupt”.
"Surely Ian will run out of weird old guns to show on this channel!"
Ian- "Hold my French rifle"
Ian will never run out! And don't call me Shirley! 😉
He also has the rest of the Elbonian arsenal
Finally I found that stick that I pretended to be a gun again!
Dagga.. Dagga.. Dagga...Dagga..
My one is a machine gun....
this is true
i lost my stick😥
"This is a french model 1901, pistol known for its popularity among the **younger** frenchman..."
Still being tested , round count in the high 800's .
How long did a 1000 round stress test take back then?
So long that next model came out.
Get 10 guys with 10 guns and a free afternoon and you'll get the failure rate. :)
@Stop Banningme Sure they did, dead customers can't be return customers. 😂
Wouldn’t the failure rate increase over subsequent firings due to parts wear?
You’d only be establishing a failure rate for the first hundred firings. Although it would be a lot more statistically significant for that period than the first 100 firings out of a single gun.
@@CreepyPastaSalad that longer term failure rate is what’s normally tested, that’s how you find MTBF.
If you count approximately 10 minutes for loading + shooting all 6 shots, you'd spend around 170 hours shooting 1000 rounds. That could be done in about 2 weeks if you have enough people to shoot the gun 16 hours a day, so it's really not that bad. Sustaining 2 weeks of continuous shooting for something made in 1856 is actually really cool.
the "gun with the 8 shaped thing hanging off it" didn't quite have the same ring to it
Functional, fast... and could technically be suppressed. Neat.
I don't even want to think about cleaning the fouling from a blackpowder suppressor...
@@Cowinspace clean? Naaah. More fouling means more surfaces to slow the gas
@@briarconner5765 youre going to lose a lot of internal volume from the fouling, its not going to be a benefit
@Cowinspace hot water would be enough to clean it.
@@bloodking73 you might wanna put a supressor on the right side of your brain. The dude was joking.
What a fascinating intermediary step in revolver history
It really is, super cool.
the fact that these guys had no power tools making these, no software to design and test their products on, and came up with such complex designs and then put them into reality with whatever limited tools and materials they had is simply fascinating
What do you mean "No power tools?" There is a reason almost all the factories back then were in New England and why the North had such an advantage over the South during the Civil War, since aside from steam power [which is costly to both set up & keep running], the majority of power at that time came from water wheels. Lots of rivers w/ decent head [aka, height differential] in N.E., ergo lots of water wheels = lots of factories. Coal mining in America didn't really become much of a thing until later that century when railroads, etc. created enough demand... Meanwhile, water wheel has a big shaft off of it that drives belts to overhead shaft(s) across the ceiling with belts dropping down to drive individual lathes, mills, shapers, grinders, etc. And *that* in turns leads us to the revolution in fabrication known as "The American System of Manufacture" made famous by Eli Whitney, Sam Colt & others...
Imagine what a smart guy with a few tools pipes and stock steel from the hardware store could build in his garage or basement today.
@@gatocles99 you just explained exactly why gun control doesnt make sense
@@jameskazd9951 Exactly.
A lot of militaries in the 1850's look up to the New England plants, especially those of Springfield, Massachusetts, and Hartford Connecticut because they mastered the manufacturing of firearms in an industrial scale, especially on power tools. Hell, the entire Industrial Revolution was fueled in part by the creation of power tools, particularly the lathe, the drill, and the power hammer...
This reminds me of a Tranter double-trigger revolver I got to examine a few years back. That thing was smooth as hell even after a hundred years and change
It has a definite feel as a stopgap from a flintlock pistol to a revolver. Not true double action, but it's striving toward it strongly. I like it a lot! Innovation in arms, for certain.
The spherical bearing on the face of the toggle is an interesting action. Don't think I've ever seen that before.
edit; I have seen it. On the Savage Navy.
That's SO complex. Cams and gears and sprockets, oh my! What's truly amazing is after all these year it functions without issue. That's incredible.
Very neat! I never knew that a black powder cap and ball gun was made that had a camming cylinder! I wonder if Nagant used this gun as a bit of inspiration.
Makes me think of the “Vindication” revolver from the Wax and Wayne books with its ability to choose which chamber you fire from
"Hi, I'm Ian and today on Forgotten weapons we have these neat Hazekiller rounds..."
Once VR eventually evolves into star trek holodecks Ian can finally start showing us even fictional weapons
And here i was wondering what i was going to listen to during my commute. Such good timing!lol
@@bigredwolf6 i'm not an asshole lmao. My car stays over 1/2 tank lol
The choice revolver of figure skaters everywhere.
This kind of early manual-action stuff is possibly my favourite FW content. Creative solutions are always fascinating!
Dont forget to add yesterday’s video to the italian guns playlist
Loving the sealed cylinder and the toggle mechanism for actuating that. Might this have been a sensible addition to the chiappa rhino usd revolvers, given their gap blast propensities?
As "geary" as that action already feels, that would probably be a problem. But it would be a possible solution for any revolver. Rossi's "Circuit Judge" uses a small shield so you can safely extend your arm out to hold the forend.
Ooo..new series on lineage of guns. Glad to hear that design, kind of, worked out. 450 may not be much on grand scheme of things, but the improved version sold well.
Lately been much "cool design, went nowhere" guns.
AMAZING! Talk about thinking outside the box! Faster than a Colt, Far better sites. Sealing (Mostly) the cylinder gap to keep it cleaner and add velocity is brilliant for the time. Advanced as it was it isn't very complex. The design looks to be very robust, It seems to be very well machined and finished. I'm surprised this design didn't become the dominate revolver at this time. I'm not normally all that interested in cap and ball revolvers but this one is Very cool!
I love seeing the assorted ways that people came up with a slightly better (or just different) take on established technology, and the reactions to the occasional paradigm shift.
Firearms are especially good at highlighting this, because they are by necessity so very tightly designed and toleranced.
With that cylinder plate I bet this would have been an easy conversion to a rimfire cartridge.
I see the thumbnail pic and think the video might be boring... then sit transfixed till it’s completion as the revolver was fascinating.
wow it's so close to being double action, so early in the 1800s! Nuts how close they were to removing that cocking lever and making it all work in one trigger pull but never pursued it. Hindsight is 20/20 and all...
Henry North's patent is 15,144 dated 17 June 1856 if anyone is interested.
Loving all these revolver videos
Ingenious! A fascinating look at a different approach - I really like this idea, thanks for bringing it to our attention Ian.
Stay safe and have a good one!
A very savage looking gun.
This seem like it might be the only suppressible cap and ball revolver.
One of the best channels on CZcams. There's nothing else out there like this! More subs! 👍 👍
Two revolver videos in a row? Ian, you spoil me!
It always amazes me how you take these firearms apart, and put them back together again. I’m lucky if I can remember what I did 10 minutes ago, never mind doing anything like that!
It's quite an advanced, ingenious, innovative and reliable system! The look is a bit weird at first, but overall it seems to be such a good design. Cool video.
By far my favorite channel.
Beautiful looking revolver, with a very interesting action/mechanism.
This is very cool little design of revolver.
all these cool “single and a half” action pistols are cool as all hell
I will never understand why more work has not gone into sealing the cylinder and barrel junction with a forward moving cylinder under spring pressure. So much benefit from such a simple concept.
Pretty cool revolver. Enjoyed the video!
I like it! Yes, it looks a bit antique next to a Colt, but that system *seems* to offer a half-way house between single and double action (where a complaint about early DA was the weight of the trigger pull). I bet it was quite accurate - would love to see this up against the equivalent Colt.
Thank you , Ian .
Ian is on a roll with the great videos lately
Shades of my 1895 Nagant! I like that gas seal cylinder/barrel. Fascinating revolver. 👍
I would think that sealing the cylinder gap would be on every revolver today. So many systems. It cant add much to the cost of production.
I'm a massive fan of brass-trimmed firearms, they always remind me of what a cannon looks like (for whatever reason).
Holy shit, that genius! I love seeing creativity like that. So simple and obvious after you see it.
The internal kinetics and geometry of this are astounding, to think of designing this without CAD.
I love your channel Ian thank you for spreading firearm knowledge
Just in time for breakfast.
Savage on screen and a sausage sandwich
Add a fried egg and brown sauce to that and we're talking food of the gods here!
It's more my early afternoon viewing with a mug of tea but I definitely salute the choice of breakfasts :)
That's what she said.
Berlin, Connecticut is pronounced with the accent on the first syllable. The other town is Middletown. The Savage factory building still stands on Middlefield Street at the bridge over the Coginchaug River.
Nice lookin' piece. Definitely something would get my old history prof Civil War reenactor friend screaming at me ;-) Thanks for the nice video. Stay safe & stay well!
Anyone else was hoping for some crazy figure eight, double cylinder revolver?
Now that is a classy looking revolver all it's missing is a top hat.
Those early guns are so interesting. And a nifty revolver mechanism
Good morning from Kenosha, Wisconsin!!!!!
Interesting mechanism. The revolving piece attached to the cylinder looks more robust than a modern hand. Everything looks quite practical. The ergonomics seem like they might be better than the 1851 Colt in a way, as long as you have a strong middle finger. The gas seal system is inspired and well thought out. I wonder, with that long barrel, if the gun was any quieter than other revolvers? Certainly some of the noise comes from the cylinder gap. The Savage Navy sounds familiar. Heading there next
Burr-lin and MiddleTown is how these Connecticut towns are pronounced. Great vid as always Ian👍🏻
Wow...lol...so unique. So many designs I've known nothing about. Thanks Ian.
God bless all here.
Very cool revolver
Very interesting to compare this and the Savage Navy revolver and see the improvements.
Damn beautiful!
That’s a really neat system.
I always have a grin on my face when something is cocked
Ayyy
Gun Jesus back at it with another banger ..
get it?
I don't know if this was mentioned in the other video, but if the gun did not fire the round, you could easily cock the hammer the "normal" way and try again, as the cylinder would not rotate doing so. On a traditional revolver, like a Colt, that is not possible.
Very nice design, I really like these odd looking guns from this time period.
If that was sealed,it may have made a somewhat safe revolving rifle monstrosity.
Very neat, very simple. Makes me wanna load up RDR.
I love Civil War and earlier firearms. Especially when Ian is talking about them. I wish you’d do more!
Cool pieces
So wait, the son of one of the partners creates the gun, but when his dad dies he does not become a partner and the company is making buck with an iteration of his design? Sounds very strange.
Financial difficulties could induce one partner to sell his share in a company to the other. It happens. And the son of the no-longer-partner knows the business and doesn't mind just being an employee because he doesn't have to worry so much about the business, just the design and manufacture of innovative firearms.
You might even say...Savage
@@AtreideSardaukar YEAHHHHHHHHHH! 🕶️
Sounds kinda Savage
One of these was on pawn stars a while back.
What an interesting design.
Thanks, I never realized these had a "sealed" cylinder gap, which makes them way cooler than I have given them credit for. Unfortunately the sealing doesn't help their ugly duckling appearance but I am now more willing to look past it and better appreciate the engineering.
Pretty cool design. I love these unknown investors who started the revolvers we know today
It's a little like a single-action Winchester. I wonder if, for the Navy, all they had to do was figure a way to hook the hammer to the toggle; boom - double-action.
Great idea for reducing chain fire in black powder guns
Whenever I see cylinder-seal revolvers like this, I always imagine a semi-auto blowback revolver that uses the force of the cylinder backing away from the barrel to cycle the action. Probably hideously impractical, but theoretically cool as hell.
With that gas seal on the cylinder, these would have been lovely as a repeating rifle design and ahead of their time.
Exceptionally fine visual explanation of the internal workings on this one! Maybe the Navy model is better...but this is elegant!
I never even knew they existed. Awesome FW educational video. Did Nagant study this pistol?
Never thought I'd hear about a toggle locked revolver...
I've finally found the gun Bernard Cornwell was talking about in the Starbuck Chronicles
Yay!
ok wow that really made me do a double take when I first saw it lol
this is really neat and quite smart system, but still loading it is slow and you can blast it all fast.
kinda like our hi-cap mags now, load for a minute and have 10 seconds of fast firing fun.
I wonder if that ring pull working the way it does would function as a decocker as well.
I've only ever seen photos of this pistol. I'm guessing that Colt swamped Savage with a superior rate of production (with an attendant lower unit cost).
It's design, and virtues, exceeded my expectations by a wide margin.
1.5 action revolver
I was literally thinking about this firearm the other day.
Hey Ian, can you think about a video on how smokeless powder is made. Maybe a field trip to where it's made I know I would be interested to know how it's made.
Capandball has a video up where he actually shoots the Savage Navy revolver. He does say the recoil if very controllable.
Here I was expecting the "failed badly in testing." or "Good gun... no money." or "Dear god too expensive." per the norms.
The brass frame is almost certainly cast, which allows a fair bit of complexity without much machining expense.
Cool system.
It's not quite patting your head while rubbing your stomach, but I would totally screw up and pull both triggers at some point.
Pretty genius mechanism
"Figure 8 Revolver"
Only has 6 shots
My disappointment is incalculable
Definitely one of the more interesting revolver actions no longer used.
I'm thinking if you pull back on both the cocking lever & trigger simultaneously, it'll fire the moment it's fully cocked?
Kind of 95% double action.
Pietta should reproduce these! I'd like to have one!
This is a sexy mechanic system! :)
Another item in the series: How many early revolver makers had a better design than Colt? All of them. This pistol has so many excellent features.
Would polishing up the wood and brass detract from the value? Because this gun would look even better that way to me.