US Test Trials White-Merrill .45 Caliber Pistol
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- One of the domestic US made pistols entered in the US military pistol trials of 1907 was this White-Merrill design. It is particularly interesting because White and Merrill submitted a manual along with the gun, which describes some of their intentions and thought processes in developing the pistol.
White and Merrill recognized that they were competing against the revolvers then in service with the US military, and specifically tried to give their semiauto pistol all the capabilities of a revolver - things like being openable with one hand, easily able to check the number of cartridges loaded, and having sights fixed to the barrel. This resulted in some unique features, like the firing-hand charging lever, which allowed the gun to carried completely safely with an empty chamber, but still easily put into action with just one hand.
Unfortunately, while it had a bunch of innovation and clever elements, the design was not competitive. In the 110-round endurance test, it suffered 40 malfunctions of various types. That, of course, resulted in it being dropped from competition. White and Merrill would go on to design a better (presumably) pistol in 1911, but it was never actually sent to the military for testing.
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God, the 1907 trials are just a goldmine of interesting designs.
unfortunately companies just don't take risks and come up with new designs anymore, almost everything is "like a glock" or "basically so and so made a HiPower".that's why my favorite pistol is my hk p9s, it is the only roller delayed blowback pistol (I think) and their use of a multifunction lever is brilliant.
Kiril Kovaljeff they really were... heck the whole two or three decades leading up to the end of the Great War were rife with amazing weapon designs and developments. I wish I could get a reproduction C93 Borchardt because the thing is amazingly unique and looks so cool to me. If dreams came true, I'd want it chambered in FN 5.7 just so I could use it as a carbine as well haha
Robert Giggie exactly! I don't get it either and hopefully one day, I try to do some business with a few gun inventions I thought of.. Especially a pretty simple self-loading action I thought of.
Kimber must have hired the same engineers. About the same failure issues
@@robertgiggie6366 Because when they do, they are usually ridiculed. Also, novel ideas are expensive to develop, market and too risky, not only because people might not buy it (there's a big difference between likingand actually buying), but also new laws can come and destroy the product. Companies will keep giving what the customer want to buy.
The worst thing about these prototype videos is that it makes me want to recreate these prototypes, then perfect their unique operation.
Thanks, Ian!
Man, now I feel sorry for the developers of this. It looks really cool and a nice pistol that has had lots of hard work put in it just to fail so spectacularly. Must have been disheartening, but then again, I'm sure it's just part of the business.
Exactly, poor guys, they just wanted to make a nice gun :(
My Great-Great Grandfather was Joseph White. Talking to my Great-grandmother many years ago, she said she remembers him being far from happy for a few months, but she didn’t know why (she was so young). He was never a purely joyous individual, but that time period stood out to her as a low point for him.
At least he didn’t indirectly kill millions of people like John Browning
Adam Versteegh what? What the fuck are you talking about?
Guns kill people m8
My Great-Great grandfather was Joseph White! Thank you so much for sharing this! Wish I could’ve seen it in person. I’d like to get my hands on one someday knowing my relationship with the pistol.
That’s definitely something to be proud of
free speech + thin blue line? that makes no sense! xD
@@Ass_of_AmalekSure it does. I’m a deputy, as was my grandfather who was killed in the line of duty, and I believe in the first amendment. What’s your quarrel?
@@ILikeToLaughAtYou thin blue line ideology is about putting cops above the law and in control of government. it's advocacy for a police state, and fundamentally antidemocratic.
Wow! Awesome!
the one handed charging function looks really cool actually. I know a guy at my local club that has a disability that keeps him from using one of his hands. I think he would find that really useful.
There are some old Spanish Pistols that have this same design that aren't too hard to find
You can get on in 9mm for around 500 it's call a jo lo ar
I think the arrows on the magazine go together with the markings on the clear magazine well cover and indicate how many rounds are left in the gun.
Genius
I was going to say, makes the most sense.
Yeah, so that way the "1" marking on the handle will mean you have one in the chamber, instead of one extra, which you can't see from the outside.
Beat me to it!
Agreed
Watching these videos, I'm consistently impressed with the quality of the machining from 100+ years ago.
Check out some old pocket watches mechanisms as well. You will be impressed even more!
Ignorant. These guys usually ran 5-10 machines at a time during production.
And some of them still fire! You can't understate the quality machining of a gun that lasts a century or more.
@@jonmeray713 a lot of it is much higher quality than 99%of the garbage turned out these days.
I'm surprised the single hand cocking level hasn't been marketed to the one handed / dual wielding shooter market....
Lucid Nonsense not a big market
Detective John Kimble More like people who like John Woo movies.
You know, you can disagree with people without being offensive...
Free speech is specifically FOR offensive speech. Freedom doesn't care about anyone's feelings.
Detective John Kimble whooooosh.....
far ahead of it's time. At least the charging handle deserves a modern equivalent, both for disabled people and safely carrying unchambered
I would love that because I'm always holding my phone watching forgotten weapons, and i dont wanna have to put it down in a firefight just to charge my pistol ;)
This totally gave me an idea on how to make a modern version of the cocking device.i think itd be awesome if all u had to do to rack it would be a little charging piece right in fron of the trigger guard all u have to do is extend your trigger finger squeeze back and your ready to roll.I wonder if anyone has ever tried the concept already on a modern pistol ?get ian to look into it lol
Norinco made the M77b which has a similar feature.
@@htchd1htchd149 so the rhinemetall eihand?
Right? Surprising we haven't seen more of that feature.
Im suprised someone is selling this, you would think that they would have all these trial guns in a museum.
Vro , A lot of items that you see in museums; are actuallyprivately owned pieces on loan.
When WA state passed background checks for all gun transfers; museums had to hurray and return guns back to the owners before being saddled with the expense of proving that the original owners were allowed to have their guns back. (stupid law)
"It belongs in a museum!"
@@goombakiwi I have to make sure the people I'm selling a gun to aren't criminals yeah what a stupid law
@@icearcher2936 I think he was more referring to the fact that it, like many regulations, is written so badly that it covers giving back a firearm to it's actual owner. Besides that it actually is a pretty stupid law.
1. Just because you've broken a law doesn't mean you don't have the right to protect yourself.
2. Just because you haven't broken a law doesn't mean you're not dangerous or evil.
3. The most dangerous criminals would presumably be the ones that get away with it and are therefore not recognized as such.
4. Writing stupid and too restrictive laws (rightly) undermines people's respect for the law, meaning the black market will be more tolerated.
5. I wouldn't sell someone a gun I got a bad vibe from and millions of years of evolution resulting in that intuition is more reliable than any set of formal rules.
6. Fuck you. Don't tell me what to do.
@@johannesgh90 Exactly! Well said! And anyone who uses their brain and thinks, will agree also!
Re: that front hook on the trigger: it appears the trigger has an oval-shaped pivot hole on a round pin; this allows the trigger to not only pivot--but to also move rearward under spring tension to engage the sear and trip the disconnector. I think that hook grabs the casting in the grip frame to prevent overstressing the pivot pin and causing premature wear. In other words, two points of pressure instead of one to distribute the load.
I think the front hook (from reading the patent) is a trigger safety of sorts. The hammer drops when the front of the slide/breech block moves down, so to stop this from happening from being bumped down, the trigger is kept forward (pin at rear of slot in trigger) and that hook blocks the front of the slide from going down until the trigger is pulled back (and the pin moves to the front of the slot) and that hook moves rearwards out of the way. That White fellow was quite clever.
I really wish the one handed charging concept would make a return in modern semi-automatic handguns.
In 1907 this must have felt like sci-fi ..
That plastic window to see inside the mag is amazing for 1907. I'm not a gun person, but far as I know the idea of a clear mag has been underappreciated.
It's when automatic pistols were being taken seriously and starting to replace revolvers. Even the crude automatics at the time were still sci fi.
The biggest problem with that clear grip, though, is it would've gotten really scratched up as time went by.
DrSid42 just like rail guns and caseless ammo today
indeed the first synthetic plastic, bakelite was developed the same year as this pistol. it seems unlikely that an experimental plastic was installed on an experimental weapon developed in the same year. natural plastics wouldn't have endured this long, and bakelite, afaik, wasn't clear. it was also brittle and moreso over time. I second the notion that the plastic window is not from the time period. in fact, it looks like modern plastic
If this thing were in German trials, it would have been further invested in before it was dropped. So much engineering going on.
>Be German military official
>See new pistol
>See complex locking system
>One handed cocking lever
>Three ways to load and fire it
Boner: "Achtung!"
That's one hell of a pistol! If only it had been made just that much more precisely, I think it really could have gone places. Loads of great features. I especially like the one-handed cocking, the cartridge counter, and the ability to use magazines, stripper clips, or even one-at-a-time.
It amazes me how consistent Ians older videos are with his most recent ones. If you go back and watch most CZcams channels the older videos are significantly worse in comparison.
I love clicking on a video that looks current and him saying it’s for the rock island 2015 auction
i did really thought that this was a recent video until i check the date lol
Amazing design for the time . Specially, the charging lever (much better than the " Jo Lo Ar ") and surprised me the existence of transparent plastics un 1907. Cool gun, coolest review. Thanks a lot Ian !!!
"We need our cavalry that hasn't mattered in 30+ years to be able to function at peak efficiency!"
"Well we have a new pistol they'll never get close enough to use"
"Bully!"
"Requires you to take your hands off the reigns for a second or two to load in about a tenth the time of a revolver, though"
"ABSOLUTELY GOD DAMN WORTHLESS"
Late Victorian Cavalry was stupid
Reloading one banded might be pretty useful in general though.
This comment is gold, you should be proud, I feel so much better now hahaha!
cavalry was used up through WW2
Disagree
onometre not effectively
that actually looked surprisingly well manufactured.
Such an interesting machine. Given the thought and care that went into making this one, it's a shame that it wasn't given a chance for more refinement.
Very interesting, I didn't know they had clear plastic back then.
I didn't think so either. I'm thinking that's not original.
Realy? Brexit in the avatar?
Oh, ... then, please leave, ... !
Sorry! I can't resist! It was only a joke! Britain can do what all (most) of the people there want!
But, is there a chance to have a 'new' voting? Maybe, ...
The first fully synthetic plastic was bakelite, first made in 1907, so if there was indeed plastic being used on the pistol, it would have been made with Parkesine, a precursor of celluloid (aka movie film). Parkesine to my knowledge isn't clear, but it is transparent, and most importantly, the knowledge to make it on an industrial scale was readily available, since it was first synthesized in the 1860s, and was already in wide use by the film industry.
All the other transparent plastics, like acrylic, polycarbonate, etc, were first discovered in the late 19th century, but none of them were able to be synthesized on an industrial scale until much further into the 20th century.
That being said, it most definitely would have been replaced by now with something like acrylic, as Parkesine had all of the problems that celluloid had (ie that it degrades quickly unless kept in a perfect environment).
My one double barrel shotgun I have is dated somewhere around the 1880s or 1890s if I'm not mistaken, and it surprised me that it utilized two plastic beads set into the center of the barrels as sights.
@@matrix3509 Parkesine was clear. It was invented in the early 1860s.
The arrows work with the ammo counter on the grip, don't they? They point the number.
On second glance, yes - they do.
Eddie Joe good observation man
Which arrows sorry? Do you know a timestamp?
@@dote9079 They're on the follower, at 14:52.
Man, if it had been reliable this gun would have been a game changer. It has a lot of interesting and innovative features.
holy shit, the tilting slide idea i recently recreated for an air rifle project. Because it allowed the valve system to cleaning connect and disconnect to the barrel without itself twisting or tilting into locking position. Which would increase wear on the o-ring seal. Also allow easy access to the receiver, in a situation where a seal might have gotten dirty or a bullet failed to load.
I knew i didn't make something new, even though I never saw such a design before. Because i've learned it's rare to have an original design, but common to recreate an old one.
Things like this make me want to go into gunsmithing so I could just make one and maybe work out some of the flaws. Then sell them as a way to own a part of history but with some of if not all of the flaws fixed.
I feel like with a few more years of development this might’ve been an excellent firearms.
That finger slide lever thingy is kinda cool but clunky. Mechanically it kinda looks to me like a tilting slide P-38 with a 1911 style locking system.
Hard to believe that in the early 1900s guns were being developed in small workshops in Massachusetts. You'd be hard pressed to find that now
What material was an optically clear plastic available in 1907? That's really cool!
I wonder how successful this would've been if it were a more tuned design. Looks like a lot of complex machining in the slide and barrel, betting it would've been out-priced. Still insanely cool mechanism.
Fuddleton Nitrocellulose maybe?
@@JETHO321 i hope not.
Celluloid, probably
@@ianfinrir8724 Celluliod is nitrocellulose.
Cellophane was developed in 1900 and is pure cellulose (no nitrate) but is subject to biological attack (like the similar Rayon fibre developed in 1890). Cellophane was only commercially available in the US from 1912 however.
So it probably was celluliod but cellulose acetate which is heat formable would be another option as this dates from 1865.
The cocking lever's an awesome idea!
ten rounds of .45 acp is nothing to sneer at for the time. I would love to find schematics for that and create a modern replica.
Man, did someone who collected stuff from the 1907 trials go and get their collection sold off?
Probably died, next of kin selling their stuff
The arrows on the mag point to the numbers on the clear side. But what a awesome example of how hard manual machining is. No CBC there boys. All done by hand and skill. Just amazing.
Cnc **
Ian, why were irons so small back then?
You have one of the best CZcams channels. Thanks a lot.
I think sights were very small back then because they assumed a smaller pinpoint sight would increase accuracy.
@@thedevilinthecircuit1414 Plus they did not use the sights for fast shooting and relied more on instinctive point and shoot perhaps. Fairbairn of fighting knife fame was of that school was he not?
The arrows on the follower could be pointing at the number on the side showing you how many rounds you have left.
Mr LKL88 beat me to it .....we got one up on the gun guru
Would love to see a book or video of all the contenders of the 1907 trials
What an elegant design!! If this were produced today, I would definitely buy one!
The front hook seems to be actually a ramp which ensures the trigger doesn't reset before the disconnect is tripped, in case someone manages to tap the trigger that fast.
Wow this is my favorite out the the trials pistols so far. Very neat design.
I'd say this is pretty outstanding for 1907. I'm actually impressed. A lot could be taken from this pistol.
Wow the story with the endurance test is crazy. Sounds like the inventors didn’t even properly test the gun themselves before entering the trial.
It sounds and looks like this particular design only needed some more refinement in its construction to make it more reliable and longer lived.
I like it^^
This is why I enjoy this channel so much! Ian always finds the coolest, most unusual or just plain oddest bits and pieces of firearms history, then shares them with us in a very simple, straightforward and easy to understand fashion. It just doesn't get any better than that.
I've learned a great deal from watching this channel. For example, I now know how to field strip and reassemble an AR platform. Before discovering this channel, I only knew how to do that with my old service rifle, the FAL, and the old FN 49 I grew up shooting.😉
Keep up the great work, Ian!
Fascinating!
Had a skilled gunmaker taken a crack at this concept, it would have led to quite a notable pistol.
Hey Ian I was thinking about something! I love watching your videos cause you find so many gems of guns that I would have never heard of otherwise and I thoroughly enjoy the history you give. I also happen to enjoy another CZcams channel called hickock45 and the firearms that are showcased there. You guys should do a collaboration or have him on your show (or vice versa)!! Maybe do a then and now comparison of early guns to the newer versions, perhaps a companies progression of a line of firearms or the history of the company with some models to show as well. I'd totally watch that, at least I think it'd be a neat idea for a series of videos
Machining looks amazing for it's time.
So the gun is easy to disassemble, but the trouble is keeping it all together.
Just found the next iconic star wars gun XD, that round barrel with that large squared slide look great, plus that charging lever is really unique.
I think that little "hook" on the trigger pushes the didn't cartridge out when the trigger is reset. And the arrows on the magazine probably point to the numbers on the handle to indicate the number of rounds remaining.
The front hook is a mere trigger travel limiter. When the trigger is fully pressed the hook just rests on the surface below preventing the trigger from being pulled any further.
I believe that the arrows on the magazine follower point at the numbers on the grip to indicate the ammo level.
I'd love to see this refined & fully reliable.
It's such a gem of a design.
Dude the cocking lever is freaking awesome
the machining quality is prety impressive.
I really like the design of that slide. It looks really slick, really cool.
Man! That cocking lever is actually an awesome idea! And it seems to work pretty well, as well. Being able to cock a semi auto pistol with one hand is a cool idea. I wonder why nobody else has made something like that? I want one
Wow they sure didn't get the KISS principle. That thing would be a very expensive nightmare to machine.
Something tells me that the clear panel on the side is not original to the gun. There is no way a plastic part from 1907 would be that clear and un-yellowed.
exactly! I doubt it too
Is it plastic? Maybe it's glass. I searched and found clear plastic wasn't invented until 1908 or 1910. Interesting.
Imagine a world were single hand cocking was a mainstay feature on all self loading pistols that would certainly be an interesting addition to firearms design
That's a very nifty feature on a pistol!
I know it's not practical, I know it's over complicated, I know it would be expensive, but damn am I a sucker for guns with unique / weird reloads.
The "clear plastic" on the side is most likely either laminated glass (plastic-covered glass) or sheet muscovite (a.k.a mica, a type of silicate).
James D. Julia online cataloque says it's "plexiglass", but that didn't enter mass production until the 1930s.
Laminated glass obtained patents in 1902, 1905 and 1909 and was widely used in WW1 gas masks.
Meanwhile muscovite is a naturally occurring mineral, though its sheet form is quite expensive. However, at least 2 million British Smoke Hood gas masks were produced in WW1 with a muscovite eyepiece.
that cocking trigger is one of the coolest things I've seen on this channel.
The machine time to manufacture a gun like this , is impressive
I absolutely love these videos. Each one teaches you that little bit extra terminology, that's still used in modern firearms.
That gun is sick
They had transparent plastic in 1907? I though Bakelite wasn’t even patented until 1909
I really like this gun, something about the mechanics just speaks to me.
Man, I want to live in the parallel universe where the M1911A1 is a Webley-Fosbery with slightly tweaked ergo.
Possibly the best handgun to shoot akimbo style, that one handed charging capability is awesome
10:4 I was really hoping you were going to say that button activated a spring-loaded field-stripping mechanism.
thia is one of the coolest pistols i’ve ever seen tho
Not really surprised there were light strikes. The hammer throw was pretty short. It would have needed a pretty powerful mainspring and that would have caused problems with the loading procedure.
Wow, another gun with a charging handle! The JoLoAr was the other one, if I'm not mistaken. The sound of the slide is just awesome!
Had it only worked during the trials, I can see this pistol being a very close contender for the 1911's belt in that match.
Damn that pistol looks very nice.
Makes you wonder, how good this could have been with some more prototyping.
An interesting piece that really shows how designers were trying out all kinds of concepts. John Browning's submission must have seemed incredible to the testers.
Even though it sucks that is a gorgeous and cool pistol
That's cool as heck, holy crap
I'm impressed. Lots of cool ideas there, though I don't think I'd ever get used to that odd trigger. One improvement might be to have that slide-trigger lock in the back position, so it sits out of the way.
This is a seriously interesting gun.
interesting, even with issues some pistols showed really look at this and depending how much time was being spend on these 1 off designs you can see potential for real improvement if they maybe had more....
3:13 "you can't reload a revolver one handed." Never tell me what I can and can't do Gun Jesus
Pretty interesting shit. A lot of neat ideas all crammed into one gun.
The front hook is clearly a locking lug for the following latch the engage with thus forcing the slide nub to pull on the receiver bolt and chamber the first round.
I would suggest that the arrows line up with the numerical markings on the transparent grip panel? The last few rounds wouldn't be visible anyhow, with such a magazine configuration.
Ian the cocking mechanism isn't to compare to opening the cylinder on a revolver one handed. Its to pick the gun one handed like cocking a hammer.
That is a very cool gun , it’s a shame it wasn’t developed a little further!
I believe the arrows on the magazine follower point to the number on the see through grip
Those two arrows line up with the numbers (1, 2 and 3) on the clear side panel to tell you rounds left in mag...
This would make an awesome competition pistol if it were produced today.
That is a very neat design. One wonders what could have happened had the tolerances been a bit tighter and some of the funkier funkiness worked around. Maybe it'd even ended up runner up instead of the Savage.
Ngl I want one of these
I think that the arrows on the magazine follower would point to the numbers on the see through grip to indicate the amount of rounds left.
This charging lever is awsome
Well done ian.
I’d love to make an airsoft or bb reproduction of this gun one day. Gotta save up for a 3D printer first though.
Is there anything preventing this from firing out of battery if dirt gets in between the locking lugs?