Lumix GX9 vs Sony A7C -MFT vs FF which is better?
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- čas přidán 14. 07. 2024
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0:00 intro
0:34 why compare
0:50 the lenses
1:15 unfair comparison
2:17 build quality and size
2:56 ergonomics
3:54 features
5:32 lens line-up
7:52 autofocus
8:21 video
9:21 battery life
10:16 image quality
11:19 price
12:20 final score
12:38 my choice
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My name is Matti Sulanto, I'm a photographer based in Helsinki Finland.
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The GX9 is like a hidden Leica ❤
The A7C is a great entry point into full frame. I just can't get past the cost if I want to replicate the four MFT lenses that I have now. I'm not a pro and I'm more than happy with what I get from MFT, especially shooting in raw. The tiny budget friendly f/1.7-1.8 MFT primes is the icing on the cake.
Thanks for sharing.
Whoa, another CZcamsr I subscribe to from another hobby. The Internet can be a small universe sometimes.
Yep, I've thought about the a7c, but it's the size, weight and cost of my equivalent mft lenses which has put a stop to me going further. I'm just a hobbyist, and my mft kit is good enough for me, even in very low light (with some post denoise applied). Fully agree with you re the small mft primes.
Fun comparison: for me the GX9, approximately $700 cheaper, and the fact that I already own many MFT lenses makes the GX9 the best deal.
I used GX9 for 6 months, I love this small camera. GX9's menu is easy to operate than my Sony rx100. My Sony RX100 used to lie in my box serval years, but GX9 excited my passion in photographing.
Does lumix gx9 has eye focus? 😅
@@reaz6291 yes it does. The focus speed is fast enough when taking photos but slower when making a video :)
I still love my GX9. Hard to quantify, but I really enjoy shooting with it. I also find it user friendly and I am happy with the results I get. The satisfying shutter sound is the cherry on top.
Thanks for sharing.
I own a GX9 and the a7c has been tempting me for so long. I wish there were more compact mirrorless rangefinder-style full frame cameras. If Panasonic makes an S5 in a GX9 body, it’d be a winner in my book. Pair that with their f/1.8 primes - killer combo!
Thanks. I don't think there will be a FF rangefinder style Lumix any time soon, but I agree it would be awesome.
Anyway Panasonic L mount has not the lens range fitting with such a body. Sony has its own plus Sigma,Tamron and Samyang ranges which include very compact prime lenses: 18mm; 20mm,24mm,35mm,40mm,45mm,50mm,65mm, 75mm,85mm and the 28/60mm zoom.
@@metphmet Over 60 native AF lenses for L-mount and another ~50 manual lenses, and more to come. Not as many as Sony, but most bases are covered now, other than the exotic.
@@fellowcitizen I don't agree . For such a form factor there are only some lenses of the new Sigma line ( 24mm f3.5 etc..).
There is nothing by Panasonic which still has to complete its line for the S5 ( 50 f1.8, 85 f1.8 and 20/60 perhaps). I don't think that Pana will launch such a body unless they want support Sigma.
Actually Sony had only the 35mm 2.8 and after having introduced this body they added immediately the kit zoom 28/60 and the 50 f2.4 40 f2.4 and the 24 f2.8. They did not intend to support Samyang, SIgma and Tamron.
@@metphmet Another way to look at it would be that Panasonic could divert some of the potential Sigma FP photographers. i.e. Not "supporting Sigma" so much as allowing those buying Sigma I-series etc lenses to use Lumix features. Also, the two are quite co-operative - it is a much cosier arrangement than with Olympus, for instance.
In terms of small lenses, Panasonic has those five f/1.8s you mentioned (18mm still to come) and the 20-60, 16-35. As you stated, there are about 7 new small Sigma lenses, too, along with the Laowa 9mm, 11mm, 14mm rangefinder lenses in L-mount. Then the Leica TL series, which are much more affordable. Many options.
I like how you can make these comparisons now since you’re not an ambassador anymore! :)
Thanks!
A refreshing video. It shows that the "best" system is mainly personal preferences. Apart from some niche applications, almost any camera will do.
Yes, that is true.
Thanks, Matti! I haven't used GX9 but I can suppose that image stabilization is expected more effective because GX9 has more space inside body to place stabilizer and micro43 sensor has more space in bayonet.
Thanks. The truth is that the IBIS on my GX9 is malfunctioning and I could not compare. However, I think both are about the same, because the GX9 IBIS is not Panasonic's best.
I’ve been using micro 4/3’s in my business for 12 years before that my primary camera was an OM 1 purchased in 1982. M4/3’s size is a big plus as I document buildings and structures spend my days climbing over and under buildings In Australia retailers push Nikon and Canon leaving Olympus and LUMIX gathering dust. In July 2022 purchased 2 GX-9 with lenses for $640 in October found an EM-5 MK 3 with a 14-150 plus an additional battery for $620. I always check out the big box electrical retailers for bargains
Great prices! Enjoy your gear.
Mask On Nurse Marty (Ret)
Hi Matti another nice video comperison thx for the upload have a good week
Thanks, you too!
Very interesting comparison. I think the Lumix held up pretty well considering it's older and has a much smaller sensor.
Thanks.
I am an enthusiastic photographer and I would like to purchase a used camera GX9 is way cheaper that Sony A7C so I will go directly with MFT because lenses are inexpensive
I'm a Nikon shooter and I've been using my GX9 with my legendary Nikon 14-24 mm zoom and 85mm f1.4 prime lenses. The Focus Peaking on the gx9 works really well.
I have a GX9 and also three Nikon Z cameras. I love the GX9 and use it a lot. One big difference between M43 and full frame is depth of field. Depending on the look you want, the M43 sensor can be an advantage. I do a lot of outdoor shooting and the increased depth of field is why I often use the GX9 outdoors. If I'm shooting people and want the soften the background (without having to do it in post), I use the Nikon Z cameras. Another HUGE advantage M43 has is the size and weight of the lenses. I wish Panasonic would refresh the GX9 and offer better weather protection.
Thanks for sharing.
I had the GX 9 and I agree with you. The major reason I sold the GX9 for the Olympus Pen-F was the poor EVF. Ironically I hear the A7C's weakest part (for photography purposes more so) is the EVF as well.
agree
I use Sony A7C with the Samyang Tiny yet Mighty lens such as 18mm f2.8 and 45mm f1.8! A perfect travel kit 👌 That being said I love using my Olympus EP-7 since it is very light weight paired with even lighter M43 lens and yes the 2X crop factor is a win win for telephoto shooting of landscape and birding which I do using the nifty 40-150 f4-5.6 and leica 100-400. Both these system are great and I am happy to see these offerings to meet our need. Cheers 🍻
Thanks.
Btw if you are interested here is a little gear review that I did a while ago 😊 czcams.com/video/L-O9zzuVsrg/video.html
The Lumix seem like a nice camera. I had the GX8 and liked it a lot. Really hopes they keep on going on with m43; News sensors and cameras. Full frame lenses are allmost to big at the moment, atleast zooms.
I would love to see you do a print comparison using the same lens quality, settings, and lighting up to 20x30 prints- and have different people look at the prints and see if they have a preference or can tell the difference. In almost all cases- you can't tell the difference! Would be a fun video!
Where is the fun, if we already know that there is no discernible difference?😀 By the way, 20x30 cm is not a very big print.
Absolutely agree that the bang for the buck camera is that which serves your purpose better. Love the video and the honest opinion.
Thanks.
If we're talking of landscape photography need to understand that depth of field is crucial in most landscapes. So we have to set F-number on full frame camera at 8-11, at the same case on micro43 camera we can achieve the same DoF with 4-5.5 F-number and in case of low light we can set ISO number 2 steps lower than on full frame camera. Therefore we can have theoretically (if the both sensors of the same technology/generation) the same low light performance on the same scene.
In that scenario yes, but many times we use a tripod in landscape photography.
@@mattisulanto yes, it's true for micro43 camera too. Tripod allows to shoot on base ISO, 200 for micro43 and 100 for full frame. The full frame will win a bit regarding noise but it's not disruptive advantage if we use base ISO on both systems. Denoise software will wipe it entirely.
@@sstansm7f Sure you can do a lot with MFT, but the FF has better image quality always, in absolute terms. You can use the same denoise for the FF too, by the way.
@@mattisulanto You're still mistaken and used un-equivalent and therefor unfair comparison to the GX9. People talk a lot about equivalent like f1.4 or f4 of M4/3 is equivalent to f2.8 or f8 on FF, but in comparison deliberately use the same f8 for both M4/3 and FF. You should've used f4 on GX9 and f8 on 7C to give equivalent and fair comparison to both. That way the GX9 practically has the same image quality, or up to 1/3 stop better than the 7C if you like to technically nitpick.
Advantage of the Sony is you can get fast lenses to utilize the FF sensor, but then you'd have to pay much more (for those f1.4 Sony primes) plus the added bulk and weight.
All other points in your comparison are pretty fair though.
@@tntytube You are right about the equivalent aperture. However, with the ISO picture pair my point was to show how much higher you can crank up the ISO on FF, if that is your only choice. In some real time scenarios you may not have the option to open up the aperture or use longer shutter speed regardless of your camera. Here is a video where I’m comparing ISO and equivalent apertures: czcams.com/video/hivwWPPqwqw/video.html
I would add 3 additional categories: * prime lens cost ** weight of lenses and ***night photography features & quality 😉
Thanks for sharing your view.
And IBIS!!
I woukd say : it depends on the glass you have! I just took some great pictures with my GX9 + leica glass. Where it was really struggling : low light conditions... (as expected). But from morning to sunset, the GX9 is a stellar performer for its size and weight...
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I've heard more than a few times that the GX85/GX9 have "soul" whereas some of the newer Fuji cameras and Sony offerings lack said "soul". I'm not sure what that means exactly, maybe a combination of comfort handling wise and a nice selection of easy-to-use features together with some pretty good glass for reasonable pricing makes it a pleasant experience without much, if any, frustration in the process. I use my GX85 more than my EM1.2 these days and if Panasonic decided to release a GX9.2 or GX10 with the GH6's upgraded sensor and image processor then I would probably sell the EM1.2 to fund part of it without much thought. I love the EM1.2, but I don't shoot motion or anything it provides over a smaller formfactor GX camera body. Two card slots not under a battery door and weather "proofing" is nice, but the framerate, buffer, etc isn't really required.
Thanks for this excellent comparison. think it is very fair.
Thanks for watching!
Just picked up an Olympus OM-D EM10 Mk3 w/ the 14-42mm lens used for $380 as my MFT camera and love it. Combined with my Canon M cameras I couldn’t ask for more. Excellent quality all around, fantastic and inexpensive lenses for all and incredibly portable. Full frame certainly has it’s place but until I win the lottery and am able to drop $1.5 - $2k on a "high end" lens I’ll stick with MFT and EF-M. 😊
Thank you for the review.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks - i have the GX9 but learned some things about it from this video 👍🏼 fwiw i wouldnt consider any sensor bigger than M43 because of the much smaller lenses, especially the longer lenses
Thanks for sharing and good to hear the video was helpful.
Great informative video! My only comment is, when comparing low light performance, you should take into consideration that a larger sensor will give less depth of field, you will need to step down two stops for the same sharpness. This again requires lower iso for the LUMIX.
Thanks. If you look at some other comments, you are not the first to suggest that. You are of course right. However, sometimes in real life low light situations you can't choose the DOF. You have to open the lens at its widest aperture and even that is not enough. Then you have to crank up the ISO until you can shoot. My point was to show how much higher the big sensor can go, if ISO is your only choice. If your subject is moving, for example, even IBIS can't save you.
Thanks for another comprehensive & fair minded review. Not sure if you can access camera, but I hope you can do a review of GH5 II & compare it to A7C, esp for video.
Thanks. I'd love to try the GH5II, but right now I don't know where or how to borrow one.
As always a clever and informative video, nice comparison
Thanks!
Thanks for this comparison. I have a GX8, and the Leica 25mm lens is one of my favourites. Personally, I rate the GX8 better than the GX9, for some of the features that were streamlined out for the later model. I was interested in the A7C for its bigger sensor, but with the extra cost I think I'll stick with my GX8 as I'm very happy with it.
Yep, the GX8 is a great little camera, and even with the 12-32mm f3.5 -5.6 pancake lens, can provide some great results. As much as I'm tempted by the Sony a7c, the cost, size and weight of some of the zoom lenses are a big turn-off for me.
You said it all when you wrote you are very happy with the GX9.
For me, I don’t need the best camera. The most expensive camera. Sorry Leica. Good enough is frequently more than good enough for me.
Mask On Nurse Marty (Ret)
Good points but I'll stay in the 4/3rds Eco System for now.
My money is on Micro Four Thirds!
Of course it is, I couldn't imagine anything else😀
Mine too. Who would buy a Camera that costs 3x more, doesn't have a Front Dial, to get a marginal gain in IQ?
@@TITAOSTEIN Like I said in the video, make your own comparison and get the results you like😀
@@TITAOSTEIN marginal gain in IQ? ok 😶
@@DeepteshLovesTECH If the usage scenario and the 3 times higher cost is considered, yes, the gain could be marginal or there may even be no gain at all! Usability and real-world results are much more important than „lab benchmarks „. For those who work in very low light conditions or need to print giant, then the Sony advantage comes through.
I want reliability. Panasonic has the lowest defect rate in the industry and by a good margin.
I did not know that. What is the source for such information?
@@mattisulanto it was leaked by one of the add-on warranty companies used by Amazon
Ottima recensione. Io per la street uso la Lumix GX9 con ilLeica sumilux 15 mm f. 1.7 e sono molto soddisfatto dei risultati.
Grazie!
Nice video. A dedicated section about ibis comparison would have been nice as well.
The truth is that the IBIS on my GX9 is malfunctioning and I could not compare. However, I think both are about the same, because the GX9 IBIS is not Panasonic's best.
@@mattisulanto thank you kindly for the information.
I just bought the gx9 for a backup camera last month(I use ff and medium format gfx before, all sold and turn back to m43 system om1 for my wildlife photo), gx9 and enough for most use. Gx9 prices are very reasonable now(all new kit are around usd $580)
Some older models can be superb value.
Yes and the a7c might be compact for full frame but when u start to put Tele lenses on fullframe the tradegy of the size begins. The gx9 is small, so are the lenses and there is a tilt viewfinder on it as a nice gimmic, it costs less than the half and kit lense included and it's well made with leather all around the front and 2 dial wheels instead of one. The Sony has only 1 wheel although the grip is bigger and there's enough place, a cheap piece of rubber at the grip and the whole front surface is naked and gets sweat and fat on it. It really looks like Sony try to save every penny on costs to maximize the income. Same with a6000 back in the days.
Gx80:
- high resolution viewfinder
- Touchscreen
- In body stabilizer
- 4k video
- 2 wheels
- new electromagnetic shutter
A6000:
- worse viewfinder
- no touchscreen
- no 4k video
- overheating at full HD
- no in body stabilizer
- more expensive
And still all big photographer you tubers hyped the a6000 to the moon. They showed me how a "fan boy" really looked like. All said mft is dead. They tell it since 8 years and it still grows and new stuff comes out. I love my mft cameras. I would take Sony apsc but they are nothing less than overpriced. Greetings from Germany :)
I’m finding the GX9 averaging about $750 without a lens. I believe this body was matched with the P 12-60mm lens. Add in the lens and it is about the same price as when purchased new.
I have the GX85 and find the GX9 with the 20mp sensor vs. the GX85 with the 16mp sensor is an incremental improvement. I have not updated.
Mask On Nurse Marty (Ret)
I've been interested in the A7c for video, but I'm seeing a few people report that it overheats and shuts down. That's a definite deal breaker for me if true. Have you experienced any overheating when shooting long (hours) long videos in 4k30?
My A7C has never overheated. It can film 4K until the battery dies, which about two hours. I have never actually tested how long it would run before overheating, but based on my experience it does not overheat easily. I'm mostly filming in normal room temperature about 20C or 68F. I have now switched to the A7IV, which seems to get warm much easier, which was a small surprise to me.
@@mattisulanto thank you for sharing your experience. That's good to know. I learn a lot from your channel. Thank you!
Good work Matti! 😁
Thanks.
Great comparison. The only area I wish you'd included was stabilization, both in photo mode and in video.
Thanks. Both have a stabilizer, so equal there. Besides, my GX9 IBIS is malfunctioning and I can't use it as it is, unfortunately.
@@mattisulanto Sorry you're having that problem. In reviews I've seen on the Sony the image stabilization hasn't seemed to be that great, especially in video. I know they have that added computer software video stabilization, but that's not straight out of the camera.
I wouldn’t swap my GX9 with it’s Leica lenses for anything currently…..but it is being challenged by my amazing iPhone 13 pro……..both fantastic bits of photographic kit.
Thanks for sharing.
I’ve got both. Just love small cameras.
Good for you! Why? Do you have a preference?
I own a GX9 and love it. My favorite feature is the L monochrome D B&W jpeg. It is my favorite B&W setting. Sorry Acros. I have several LUMIX lenses that like the body are small and lightweight.
I just purchased the A7C. Ordered the X100VI on the day it was announced and cancelled after 3.5 months. I don’t want to wait a year to receive that camera. I also am not paying a premium for it. Bought an A7C with the 35/2.8 for 75% of the X100VI. Now I have a full frame camera with excellent autofocus and interchangeable lenses.
The question is which camera will I love and keep? Will I keep both? Will I see a difference between full frame and M43 images? If so will the difference be significant? More will be revealed. What is your experience? Matti suggests they are about the same.
Mask On Nurse Marty (Ret)
Great channel!
Thank you!
Panasonic need a GX-s body with full frame sensor. It was something I wanted from when I bought the GX7 several years ago and then the GX8, by then Panasonic only made cameras M4/3.
You are not the only one wanting a FF GX😀
Nice comparison. It would also be interesting to see a comparison of the IBIS in these two cameras.
Both cameras have IBIS. My GX9 stabilizer is malfunctioning so I can't use it or make comparisons.
@@mattisulanto but how inadequate… with stabilization we would have a 5 x 5 of course!
@@TITAOSTEIN Can you elaborate, I don't understand😀
The GX9 or GX8 scores way better than the Sony.
I have the much older GX7 along with an A7C, and even that ancient Panasonic is pretty good so I imagine the much newer GX9 would be outstanding. Like you said, the lenses are the big thing. I have the 40mm f/2.5 G and 24mm f/1.4 GM, so if I want to use either of those I'll take the Sony but I also have the really nice 15mm f/1.7 for the Panasonic which sits in the middle.
Thanks. How's the 40mm Sony, do you like it? I've been thinking about adding that.
Love my GX7. I think I'll only upgrade if the next GX model adds a 3.5 mic input, better AF tracking (for stills and video), and no 4K crop.
I like your un-biased and practical approach to such gear comparisons! Did you use the 1. or 2. version of the Leica lens? The latter is visibly sharper wide open (I made a personal comparison while I upgraded the lens). For the noise comparison I would have set the Lumix to f 4 and iso 3200, because in my opinion that is more equivalent to f 8 and iso 12800 on the Sony. Which might still be better due to its BSI sensor design.
Thanks. I have the mark 2 version, but it's no match for the Sony lens, which is superbly sharp. The point was to demonstrate the ISO performance in one picture pair. I have another video where I use a different approach: czcams.com/video/hivwWPPqwqw/video.html
Agreed. If doing a camera/lens combination test and claiming that the Sony lens has the same equivalent aperture, then should have compared at "equivalent" apertures and set the ISO values accordingly. So the ISO on the M43 camera should be two stops less than the full-frame at the equivalent aperture.
@@johnvillalovos You are right about the equivalent aperture. However, with the ISO picture pair my point was to show how much higher you can crank up the ISO on FF, if that is your only choice. In some real time scenarios you may not have the option to open up the aperture or use longer shutter speed regardless of your camera. Here is a video where I’m comparing ISO and equivalent apertures: czcams.com/video/hivwWPPqwqw/video.html
@@mattisulanto Oh yes, for sure ISO values being equal FF is better. I'm just thinking if someone decides they want to shoot at f/8 in full-frame then likely using M43 they would choose f/4 to get equivalent depth-of-field. Which would then allow them to use two stops lower on the ISO value. Where M43 struggles is when trying to get those large aperture values. If FF has an f/1.4 then M43 would need a f/0.71 to be equivalent, which I've never seen 😊 Watched your other video and it does talk about that. Thanks!
I switched from the GX9 to the A7C2. The panasonic is excellent. But after going through the Sony files, I’m sorry, the full frame just beats the MFT- if only because the shallower depth of field. A larger sensor has a shallower depth of field- it just does. Don’t get me wrong- I was able to nail eye focus with the Panasonic. And the price is right. And in the end, I know how much bigger I can print from full frame.
I always enjoy your videos. Unfortunately, I was unlucky with Sony equipment, and I can’t fully describe my experience with Sony customer support in on a family-friendly channel. I’ll just say that pigs will fly before I ever purchase another Sony product. I have never had a problem with any of my Panasonic gear.
I'm sorry to hear about you bad experience and thanks for remembering that this a family friendly channel😀
Thanks for this Matti. You left out in body image stabilisation that allows a photographer to shoot with lower ISOs on a micro four thirds camera and keep the noise levels down. I know this is counter balanced by the low light performance of Sony full frame though. I would be interested if you did a comparison of that. I own both Sony full frame and Panasonic micro four thirds cameras so Insee the benefits of both too.
I was comparing features and both cameras have IBIS. I can't do a comparison anymore, because I have sold my A7C. If you own both cameras you can do your own comparison.
IMHO, with ~ $1000 difference in their prices, Lumix is the hands down winner for an entry level camera.
Matti good day! On Olympus, it is possible to turn on the change in the backlight of the screen in real time when changing the exposure parameters. Is there the same possibility on the GX9?
What exactly do you mean? Would you like to see your exposure preview in real time?
@@mattisulanto Yes
@@mattisulanto Thanks! Found... czcams.com/video/QMRmelkzVZU/video.html
Great review 👍 what do you think about the Pana s5 vs the Sony a7c?
Thanks. Now that would be an interesting comparison too, but I think even better Sony for that would be the A7III or A7IV. Panasonic's problem is the autofocus, which is way behind Sony, but other than that the cameras are great.
Always enjoy your videos, but here I would say that I personally dont want to do without the full frame look that is not available with Lumix?
Many greetings from Denmark
Thanks for sharing!
Nice comparison. I wish you also compared the color science. I think gx9 has better color, im just not sure if sony has improved the color quality in a7c.
Thanks for sharing.
I own both the A7C and GX9 (as well as the GH6). The A7C is a beautiful camera. However, for me, owning both cameras has made it clear that MFT is still an excellent choice and that there is no need to switch to Full Frame. With a bit of skill, you can do practically everything with MFT cameras that Full Frame offers, including achieving an excellent shallow depth of field. For example, with MFT lenses like the Olympus 75mm 1.7 lens or the Zhongi Speedmasters 25mm f0.95.
The major advantage of MFT remains its light weight and the wide range of lenses available. The GX9 paired with the 15mm 1.7 lens is a fantastic setup for street photography and video: small, inconspicuous, and non-intimidating. I often pair the GX9 with the 14-140 (ff 28-280): it remains lightweight and has an impressive zoom range. Also, the dual stabilization (body plus lens) works very well. A handy combination when you are traveling. Try putting that same zoom on a FF camera: it becomes bulky and heavy in terms of size and weight. By the way, a nice alternative to the GX9 is the new OM5 from OM-Systems.
In short, it's clear to me that I will continue to mainly use MFT cameras and lenses in the future and not switch to Full Frame.
Since you own both cameras, which one do you take out the door more and why?
Mask On Nurse Marty (Ret)
E-mount system released no less than 8 new lenses this year alone. Available options are just fantastic.
Yes, it's really good.
I am envious of people who have the financial means to buy a large variety of lenses (many that are above the price of the camera). However, as an enthusiast level photographer, I only have a select few lenses and most of those are KIT lenses. I rarely look to a camera brand solely for the largest catalogue of lenses. Just give me a few decent performing, cost-effective lenses and I am good to go. My post-processing skills will help make up the difference.
@@hVF8KZuQPeCc8u this alone would be a compelling reason to look into E mount. Tamron and Sigma lenses offer a lot of value while providing exceptional IQ, yet similarly priced to offerings from Olympus and Panasonic.
What this clearly shows is that Pana could definitely fit a full frame sensor into a Gx8. Size body, which would be awesome..
The GX9 is compact, but not tiny and would easily take FF sensor.
@@mattisulanto yep, but the Gx8 is better sized imo, is weathersealed and has a still-brilliant evf that the Gx9 lacks .
Agree, Pana's GX8/9 can but DMC-GM1 can't perhaps.
You should do a comparison of these 2 with PenF and although I am biased because I only have the PenF( my sister had the Sony and it was also nice to use) but I guess for me the PenF would win because of the black and white features.
Thanks for your feedback. That could be something for the future.
Just a question, if i'm understanding well, f8 on ff coresponding with f4 on m43 (same depth of field), so to compare noise you should comparing iso 12800 on ff with iso 3200 on m43, is my thought right ?
You are right about the equivalent aperture. However, with the ISO picture pair my point was to show how much higher you can crank up the ISO on FF, if that is your only choice. In some real time scenarios you may not have the option to open up the aperture or use longer shutter speed regardless of your camera. Here is a video where I’m comparing ISO and equivalent apertures: czcams.com/video/hivwWPPqwqw/video.html
@@mattisulanto thank you 😉👍 i really light your channel and photography approch
For me, I pick GX9 and save money to better lenses, great softwares like Topaz and DxO Photolab :)
Thanks.
Although, it is possible to argue regarding the lenses - Panasonic and Olympus have so many first class lenses that the new lenses aren't exactly needed, I would say, you compare the cameras in the right way. I can't say the same about some other vloggers. Recent, I saw one, who took Lumix G70 with the kit lens (very far from good ones) and some Canon lenses (with adaptor) for a photo trip to Berlin. Then he showed the pictures and complained about bad resolution. Finally, on the base of the pictures that were done with the old camera and such as set of lenses he makes conclusions that MFT is not suitable to have high quality pictures. It was "dislike" without any doubts.
Thanks! I try to be fair always.
For the price people pay to A7c + 50, you can buy GX9 with 5 lens.
Yes, you can buy many things for the price of the A7C + 50😀
Thanks for a great video.
I have a question about image quality. I note you shot both cameras at f8 and ISO 12800 to compare image quality, but shouldn't you have shot the GX9 at f4 and ISO 3200 to account for the extra 2 stops of depth of field. I would be interested to learn what the image quality is like at those settings.
Regards Paul
Thanks. You are right about the equivalent aperture. However, with the ISO picture pair my point was to show how much higher you can crank up the ISO on FF, if that is your only choice. In some real time scenarios you may not have the option to open up the aperture or use longer shutter speed regardless of your camera. Here is a video where I’m comparing ISO and equivalent apertures: czcams.com/video/hivwWPPqwqw/video.html
Very fair comparison. I went from a Lumix G9 to the A7c, and while I really like it I do miss the G9s feature set.
Thanks for sharing.
A7c definitely wouldn't be the most feature rich option from Sony, so there are certainly tradeoffs in different areas, just have to determine if they are worth if for you, or shoot dual systems
Compact cameras make sense with compact lenses. Both of those need a pancake lens to release their potential as carry everywhere cameras.
The GX-9 has several great pancakes(I own several), including primes and zooms, from both Pany and Oly.
Don't think you can go very compact with ff. And price of ff body and lenses is still valid point for people.
The a7C looks amazing. However in terms of the key defining reason to get either of these cameras, which is the weight and size, I think the Lumix has one vital advantage. That is the weight of the lenses. There is no Sony lens which is a lightweight equivalent for the Panasonic 42.5 f/1.7, and even lesser for the excellent Panasonic 35-100 f/2.8. With a Pana 12-35, 35-100, 25 1.4 and 42.5 1.7 and camera, your total setup would barely be 1.2 kg. With the Sony, 2 primes and 2 zooms will take you to twice that weight. Even the lightest setup, such as Sigma/Tamron 28-70(75) lens, Tamron 70-180 f/2.8 lens, 50 2.5 (or 1.8) and 85 1.8, you will be in a very different weight bracket. And losing some range on both the wide and tele end, while gaining some f-stops in equivalence
You are right, if you just want small and nothing else matters, MFT is the choice. FF manufacturers tend not to make primes slower than F2.8 or zooms slower than F5.6, except some long tele zooms. It really depends on what you value and what you need.
GX9 all the way for me. Sony too overpriced. Besides, i enjoy the process of trying to take the best photo i could using less costly gear.
Thanks for sharing.
Can you fit a gx9 into an a7c cage? It's almost Impossible to find a cage for the gx9
I don't know, but I doubt it will work.
That Sony is the only FF camera I have thought about buying. But the price is insane compared with the GX9. Plus the lenses for m43 are so small and reasonably priced.
Some lenses are small and cheap, but for example the Leica 25mm is not much cheaper than the Sony 50mm G. Also the new OM System 20mm F1.4 is bigger, heavier and as expensive as the Sony 40mm F2.5, which is a FF equivalent.
@@mattisulanto I agree about some of the m43 pro lenses, especially from Olympus/OM, they are a bit beefy.
For my GX9 I have the Olympus 17mm f1.8, it is tiny. My Lumix 35-100 f4-5.6, again tiny and a reasonable price, surely there is no equivalent FF Sony lens at the same price and size for 200mm focal length? My Oly 45mm f1.8 too, so small and light. My favourite, the Oly 60mm macro... I think M43 wins 😉
@@MichaelGerrard Yeah, you can build a really small kit with MFT, if you choose the right lenses.
@@mattisulanto Try to beat the GM1 with the 12-32. ;)
@@ruuddirks5565 If the small size is the only argument the GM1 wins every time.
One other difference is that the Lumix GX9 is not weather sealed. The Sony A7C has weather sealing. I have used the A7C hiking through a lot of heavy rains in the Rockies and in Ontario. I have a Pen-F that also has no weather sealing. If it had that feature, I'd probably use the Oly a lot more as the Sony is heavy once you have high quality native Sony or Sigma glass attached to it.
Thanks for sharing. My Sony is not heavy with the lenses that I chose😀 You can have compact high quality glass on your Sony if you want.
@@mattisulanto you can with primes and tighter range glass that are not weather sealed. But because am hiking usually long trails and sometimes mountains, I usually only choose to carry one lens with a more flexible range. The highest quality glass at the fastest speeds with a wider range, that are also weather sealed, are usually big and heavy.
I'm shooting with both an E-M1 mark II and a Sony A7 III ; for general travel, family pictures , I really don't see all that huge difference in quality of the pictures. Of course if you pixel peep or manipulate heavily the raw files in LR/PS the FF will win the contest, but for general usage M43 is still a great option. 20x30cm prints...I can't tell the difference between FF and M43, the same goes on Ipad display.
I'm looking to purchase a used GX9 just for the holidays or trips... I mainly have Oly lenses (lots of them) and that holds me back. I dont really like the Pen-F for some misterious reasons...so I was looking at the GX9....wondering if the lenses will work fine, autofocus fine etc. Especially the Olympus 12-40 f2.8 which I'd like to use on the GX9...
Thanks for sharing. My experience is that Olympus lenses work well on Lumix cameras.
If you are using Lumix and Olympus body mixture, then the Lumix GX 12-35 f/2.8 is the better choice because it will have Dual-IS on the GX9 and "Olympus Dual IS" on the E-M1ii (this is not Sync-IS but both independently) The Ollie 12-40 is not a stabilised lens. I do have the GX 12-35 mk.1 and use it on G9, GH4, E-M5ii, PEN-F, world class lens.
@@mattisulanto that is certainly true for the no-OIS Ollie primes but Lumix Dual-IS is only supported by Lumix lenses. Olympus Lens-IS is not supported on Lumix. Where there are equivalent Ollie/Pany lenses, there is some advantage to using a Lumix OIS on an Ollie back. The glass will be much the same.
MFT is supposed to be a compatible interchangeable system but something went wrong ...
I have the a7c it’s a great camera
People have been telling me the Lumix cameras are dust magnets. The a7C is sealed. It's a professional art photographer's camera.
thanks
You're welcome!
Gx9 tilt EVF is such a winner. Fair comparison. I do think that Sony has discountinued the Sony A7C.
Thanks. Sony has discontinued the A7C temporarily because of the chip shortage, but it may well be, that the production never comes back.
Interesting comparison. I had a gx9 for a couple of weeks and I had problems with getting the viewfinder to come into sharp focus. None of the diopter adjustments worked. Do you have any experience with this? Otherwise I found the design and layout of the camera to be great and would consider buying another if the viewfinder was better. Maybe I just had with people call a "bad copy"?
Thanks. I've had no problems with the VF and you probably had a bad copy.
Actually I know that several people who wear glasses have a problem with the GX9 EVF. It‘s the only Panasonic camera I know off, and I own 7 Lumix cameras.
@@tobiasdavid3096 Thanks for your insight Tobias!
@@mattisulanto Thanks! Good to know.
The EVF was the reason why I sold the GX9. otherwise really enjoyed it.
for the test of iso performance why did you keep the same apperture for both camera ? With the ff at the same aperture you have less depth of field.
The ISO comparison just proves how much higher you can go with FF if you have to.
why not put together a zoom lenses cost and size using the same 2 formats? as close as practicably possible of course
That is a very good idea.
I used Sony for a while(A7Riii) and actually left the system because I found the bodies TOO small. Going back to the Lumix G9, it's much more comfortable for my larger hands.
I prefer m4/3 lens ecosystem to Sony's. If only because m4/3 has a larger selection of lighter lenses, also at the long range lenses for the same or better quality are more affordable. But I might be biased, because I love my feathered bokeh on the Olympus lenses.
Thanks for sharing.
U gave a point to Sony because of the lenses and how many they are. Well I would give lumix also a point because the lenses generally are smaller and that's also a fact and that should not be underestimated. As an extra it has a tilt viewfinder. Also of course the Sony has more bokeh but on the other hand lumix has more focal length for crop factor. At the end I would say it's 5:5 draw
Yeah, sure you have to make your own evaluation based on what is important to you😀
Have Sony a7r but almost never use it because the Olympus much easier to bring with me everyday
you could ad in ibis as another point
The truth is that the IBIS on my GX9 is malfunctioning and I could not compare. However, I think both are about the same, because the GX9 IBIS is not Panasonic's best.
thanks for this comparison. Surprised to hear that the Sony mount has a wider range than MFT - that's very impressive. It's telling that the GX9 is an older product than the A7C but it's still Panasonic's latest range-finder style camera. I have a G9 and could see myself getting a Sony A7C for wide/normal focus ranges and using the G9 for the telephoto/macro lenses. Now, if Panasonic built an SX5 camera that took the G9/S5 batteries… :)
Thanks for watching!
do you have experience of the GX9's battery economy mode that gets 900 shots out of a single charge@@mattisulanto ?
@@video-carl I'm afraid I have never tried that mode. In the end the number of shots depends on so many things.
The best camera will be the sensor of the lumix S5 in the body of the GX9. :-)
That could be the best, but it does not exist😀
i was going to buy the new Sony a7cii but at only 33mp vs 20mp the price difference was not worth the upgrade. i will wait for a GX10 there is a good market for it. i also have no need for video features. if Sony produced the new A7cii with a 40mp sensor without the video features for still photographers only it would be a winner for us purist.
When I see camera comparisons like this - does it even make sense to make smaller sensor camera today? I mean sensor is smaller. Camera body can't/shouldn't be downsized because it compromises ergonomy from certain point (you want to have big display with tilt mechanism, you may want to have some grip). I wonder how much expensive is bigger sensor when it comes to manufacturing cost. FF system has larger lenses - is this a necessity? I mean - compare this 25mm/f1.4 and 50mm/f2.5. There are nearly equivalent. What if someone makes lens like 24-70mm/f5.6 or 24-120/f7-f11? Yes, it sounds horrible. But these can be much cheaper and smaller than 24-70/f2.8. But they might be fine as an entry-level and compact lens for travel and landscapes.
I have had those same thoughts many times. Thanks for sharing.
I really liked my gx9 I sold it after it was listed as discontinued and did not receive the last firmware update.
I think it's a shame Panasonic has no interest to continue the GX series.
It was nice of you to make this comparison but there are a few things I feel you got not quite right. I wish you had compared the Lumix using the 25mm f/1.7 instead of the Leica 1.4. The 1.7 is so much lighter weight, less expensive, and I think it is sharper with better contrast. Also, your ISO 12800, 1/125s at f/8 on the Sony is impressive but also necessary because of the longer focal length. It would be better compared to the GX-9 at ISO 3200, 1/125s at f/4 since the exposure, sharpness, and depth of field will look the same. ISO 3200 on the micro Four-Thirds sensor is still acceptable for most people. It does get to be a feature war between cameras but those settings would be a more realistic comparison. The Sony would definitely win the bokeh argument if that is a big issue but I personally see the longer focal lens and shallower depth of field as a detriment in many cases. I agree with you regarding 4K crop. I don't understand why Panasonic chose to crop 4K like that on the GX-9 when they don't do that on the G9. With that being said, there are some visual benefits to a 4K native resolution rather than binning the full frame sensor output like Sony and others do. Binning can result in some unpleasant artifacts on diagonal lines and those are not always fixable in post.
Thanks for sharing. Like I said in the video, I made this, because I happen to have these cameras and lenses. I don’t have the 25mm F1.7 and it would be equivalent to about 50mm F3.4 FF lens. You are right about the equivalent aperture. However, with the ISO picture pair my point was to show how much higher you can crank up the ISO on FF, if that is your only choice. In some real time scenarios you may not have the option to open up the aperture or use longer shutter speed regardless of your camera. Here is a video where I’m comparing ISO and equivalent apertures: czcams.com/video/hivwWPPqwqw/video.html
Sony is proud of its Complicated Menu.
Can the olympus lenses be used on the lumix cameras?
Yes.
@@mattisulanto How do you overcome the low light limitations of the MF3rds cameras? I love Olympus (I wish they had an OM 1 or OM5 quality range finder camera). I wish Olympus lenses had the aperture ring similar to fugi. But in some ways isn't ASP-C the compromise between size vs low light performance? (I'm praying the xpro4 will have a traditional LCD!).
I'm currently all-in G9/GX9. Sony's A7C is an amazing package. How does Sony's FE 50mm f2.5 compare to MFT 25mm lenses? Do you have the Olympus f1.2?
I don't own the Olympus 25mm F1.2 and have not made any side by side comparisons. I have used the Olympus though. However, the Sony 50mm F2.5 is an awesome lens, super sharp and no bad habits. The same can be verified in many reviews available online.
Thanks, @@mattisulanto the little Sony lens does look good. Something for a future me, perhaps 😉
@@video-carl Yeah, it's a keeper if you like 50mm😀
@@mattisulanto some years ago, I used my Olympus 25/1.8 intensely for a year and that made me a convert!
My camera ist the gx9 😃👍
Perfect!
@@mattisulanto Thanks.
👍
Gx8 do you ever use that one its good for light wait and in my opinion is much better than gx9 if you do video
I have tried the GX8.
I wish i kept my GX7 or LX100 =/ I have the S5, the image quality is perfect but its too huge for family events.
You forgot stabilization ;)
I did not. Both cameras have IBIS, so they are basically equal. Besides my GX9 stabilizer is malfunctioning and I have to turn it off anyway and can't compare.
@@mattisulanto the GX9 IBIS is much better!
@@TITAOSTEIN Ok, if you say so😀
@@mattisulanto Sony is known to have the worst IBIS in the industry. That’s just a fact, sorry.
In point of ergonomics etc: in my eyes Sony tried to save every penny on this camera wherever they can to maximize the income. What I mean: as you mentioned only 1 real dial where the gx9 has 2 wheels and the front wheel is out of metal, so are the mechanic wheels that connect inside the body, u can hear it when hold it to the ear. And because the gx9 has a smaller grip it means the Sony with bigger grip had the space for it but they didn't use it. On the front of the Sony body u have a small piece of rubber grip which looks cheap and the rest is naked and u will see fingerprints on the naked surface where the gx9 looks like leather (is synthetic) but well made and covers the whole front. On ergonomics and how to handle the camera Sony did fail completely
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I had them both for a couple of months (before I sold the GX9). There's no comparison in photo quality. I don't care about video. I wanted a compact photo camera, with great autofocus and great battery life. Besides the Sony just destroyed (and I mean it) the GX9 in terms of AF. Battery life is also impressive and ISO performance kills it on the Sony. I bought the Sony only $500 more expensive than the price I paid for the GX9.
Please believe me, if you're a still shooter you want the Sony, no contest, otherwise you will regret it. It's game over for MFT. You can get a cheap Rokinon 35 f2.8 ($200) and you'll get the same depth of field at a fraction of the price than any MFT 1.4 lens.
Really? Here in Germany the Sony cost 3 x more than the GX9! and the sony has no front dial! Unbelievable in a camera that costs almost 3 times the price of the GX9!
@@TITAOSTEIN it’s about size and picture quality. I really don’t miss that dial at all. Many Sony lenses today include an aperture ring and a function button, so its minimalist design is just great, and as I said no contest in picture quality. BTW, all buttons can be set by the user. When I use manual lenses I use the REC button to zoom in my subject. It’s the best camera size/price/quality I found. In my country MFT lenses are are and quite expensive.
It's your opinion. I would like to see a 30x40 cm print to see where the FF is superior. M43 now handles 6400 iso very well.
Actually, a used Leica 25mm 1.4 can be found for little over 200€ used, at least in Germany. Unfortunately, the price difference for the camera is also much bigger, so really it's a matter of budget.