Chieftain's Q&A 19. Cirrus, Tropico and a Rhino
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Time indexed table (and anything I say I will link to) to follow.
00:00 Intro
02:03 What happened to the FTs captured by Germany after the fall of France, 1940?
03:50 What happened at the Checkpoint Charlie Standoff in 1961?
06:42 If T29/30/34 or T32 had been available in late WW2, would they have been the best tanks on the battlefield, and what would their service lifes have been?
08:10 When do I think the various myths about Sherman started to take hold? During the war or later?
10:09 What was special about the M113 which made it so successful, and any comments on M548?
11:41 If the 17pr was so poor-fitting in Firefly, how bad was the 105mm version from Israel?
12:28 What's the longest I've ever spent buttoned up, did anything get on my nerves?
13:08 You are buying tanks for the island of Tropico, late 60s. What do you get?
15:57 Can tanks with Christie suspension have return rollers?
16:05 Why did Centurion use bogies and not torsion bar?
16:27 Did I name my tanks? What were their names?
17:22 If I had to own a tank from the 1950s, which one would I buy?
17:47 How does an armor commander understand the situation of his unit given how hard it is for a commander to understand the situation of just his own tank?
18:50 What are the callsigns for Mrs Chieftain and Son?
19:59 Did Western Allies trial Centurion after the war, and what were the impressions?
26:11 Is there one website which lists tanks on display in the US?
26:25 How do tanks go about refuelling in combat?
28:02 Will the concept of reducing armor for mobility make a return?
29:22 Which country has the best development process for tanks or AFVs?
31:21 If I could own one aircraft to fly about, what would it be?
33:20 After track is tensioned, what happens to it that it eventually needs to be re-tensioned?
33:31 Was there ever a project called MBT-80?
34:06 Did Western forces ever stand a chance of stopping the Soviets before the fall of the Iron Curtain?
35:03 Japan's Type 74 has an odd track setup. What advantages?
36:20 Was consideration given to external ammunition stowage, given how much emphasis was placed on ammo capacity of tanks in WW2?
37:11 German tanks in later WW2 had a reputation for unreliability. Were there other, more reliable options available?
38:07 Why did the Italians stick with riveted armor in WW2?
40:43 What were Shermans knocked out by most frequently in the Pacific?
41:10 Would German tanks have benefitted from a longer development cycle?
41:39 What's with the lack of use of modular armor packages?
43:28 What is the ball-shaped tank in the intro sequence of Pentagon Wars?
44:04 Please expand on my involvement in Girls und Panzer.
45:01 How to tank rounds differ from artillery shells?
45:46 Why was the tactic of US tanks in early WW2 to run over an anti-tank gun?
46:30 Is buying a tank a good investment, money-wise?
47:12 Do individual tank crews have personal choice in ammunition loadouts?
48:05 Would the US military be capable of deploying its armored divisions from bases in the US ro a conflict overseas in a reasonable amount of time?
50:57 Could the M1A2C benefit from a 20mm coax, or a larger gun with autoloader?
52:24 How much longer will the M1 stay in service in the US Army?
52:41 If I were given the position of Palmer, but in the German Army, which projects would I have nixed, or would I have championed which were never made.
57:48 M41 and Stingray have remained popular in Thai service, not least because of the light weight. How common is it for local geography and infrastructure to influence tank designs?
59:55 In my US AFV Development talk, I speak of the development process of US tank design. Was there something similar in the UK?
1:01:41 GotM
1:03:55 Can we get another sort of Operation Think Tank, maybe by Zoom/Teleconference?
1:05:02 Spookston did a video on what he thought was the ultimate M4 Sherman. What upgrades would you make to an M4 which were not actually done?
1:08:15 Is it feasible to place a machinegun on a turret rear for infantry to shoot at drones?
1:09:01 Did I have any serious encounters with the turret monster?
1:09:25 What's the strangest thing I saw with the locals during my deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan?
1:10:05 Can we get a video on you just rambling on about anything tank related?
1:10:35 What's the most fun I've had in a tank?
Irzyk article. www.ausa.org/articles/irzyk-e...
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"Diplomatic Incident" is a great tank name.
Especially considering the accusations that M1s intentionally ran over/buried Iraqi troops both times they were there.
@@DeliveryMcGee the Iraqi soldiers had time to move. i think even a deaf person will know of tank unit. more then a mile away. Not forgeting that it´s easyer for Iraqi soldier to spot a M1. then the driver of a M1 to spot a hiding soldier.
@@DeliveryMcGee that's the only way tanks has to deal with infantry too close to get at with the MGs.
If infantry haven't surrendered in time to avoid getting bruried/ground into paste, it's reasonable for the tank crews to presume the infantry carries some kind of devices aimed to do something "funny" to the bottom armor of the tank and thus has to be prevented from doing so.
Needs to be on a shirt
I choose to believe theres a tank in active service with " Significant Emotional Event" written on the barrel
"This is getting silly. Let's pull back 5 meter each alternatively until everyone is back in their compound."
Very mature.
You know what they say... if it looks dumb but works, it's not dumb. I'm hoping that after the first couple of dozen moves they increased the distance a bit...
It may seem silly, but we would have had a very different history if there was an direct quote from one of the tankers saying, "So then I started blasting. . . ."
@@steeljawX On the other hand, it would have been totally not silly if they had just shouted "OK, sorry for the dramatics!", turned around and drove straight to barracks.
They chose silly.
You going to turn your back on an opponent? Plus, sudden movements could set off hostile fire.
@@NodDisciple1 They had already concluded that both sides were simply posturing. Thus, "not turning your back" was continued silly posturing.
I found E-5 to be the perfect rank, everybody assumed you were doing your job (not sleeping in the Apache field crane bay), and you out ranked the majority of people that were actually paying attention.
That same as a Sargent in the British army
Privates fear you
Corps know you and work for you
Jnr officers come to you help
Snr officers know you rank really runs the army
is it E-5 that also let you eat in the officer tent meaning you get ether better food or that actually edible desert bonus thing?
compared to the low ranks that need to eat out in the rain on the ground whit half there ration somehow not properly cooked.
@@Zack_Wester some of them do, but none that either want their men to like them, or do way too much work...
@@Zack_Wester nope, NCOs might, might have a separate area to chow down, but get the same chow as the other ranks.
@@ret7army oh? can it have be a branch or contry/nation or even a age(year) thing?
M1A1 driver's hole is pretty comfy, even during an extended time. The gunners spot is where I found myself wanting to stretch out the most, then you either end up carefully watching the hydraulic lines behind the station (and making sure the turret lock was on) or got very familiar with the TC as you took over part of his station. Oh- and my favorite tank name that I served on.... "Boomtang'
Believe it or not I was actually The Chieftains gunner for a few FTX’s. Let me tell you being his gunner with his long Giraffe legs wasn’t fun either. He knows who I am and knows I’m just giving him a hard time lol. Good to see you Moran!
My last tank was named, "Bob".
How do drivers manage going up steep slopes? It seems that with the reclined seat, the driver's head being so low would be discomfiting (at first, anyway), also, is there a tendency for the drive to slide backwards?
@@petesheppard1709 At least on the Abrams, you're reclined in the seat, and its tight enough in there that you're not going to slide around. However, usually that hatch is closed while you're moving (except in the motorpool) so going up an incline makes you trust in your TC and loader to guide you.
@@timsmith4548 Thank you! I can't help but imagine the physical sensation of being head down would be creepy, at first anyway.
The American spotty second syllable stress (e.g. putting the GAR-bage can in the ga-RAJ) is to make it easy to identify Irish spies.
That and saying Ga-rij and not ga-RAJ
"Fletcher found a bruhaus" . . . the best words I have ever heard spoken in the Tankish language.
In Germany, it's a brauhaus
I'm not really comfortable with the idea that 'money is no object' when equipping the Tropico armed forces. Seems to me that while you're choices were good, maximizing kickbacks and stealth contributions to my swiss bank account is an important strategic objective.
But if you end up overlapping your pineapple farms and have a couple of good edicts in place money really isn't much of an issue. I have never done it but there are videos on it.
@@isaiahcampbell488 There is no limit to the amount of money that should be diverted to my personal swiss bank account.
I completely missed the part with the Tropico armed forces--where was that?
Diplomatic Incident is probably among the best Tank names I've heard.
The tank platoon probably also had "significant emotional event " too .
The goal of a committee is not to produce a final product the goal is A: Protect the members of the committee from having to take personal responsibility of failures, B: Ensure committee members can network with other committee's for personal gain, C: Ensure the process is weaponized for personal or political gain, and D: Give Managers or Senior Members something to do to justify their salaries.
There's a belief that a council of war (military committee meeting) neverchooses to fight, but always chooses to retreat
@@colbeausabre8842 Interesting, since the two armies (Napoleonic and German) that initiated the largest wars of conquest in modern European history were also the two most associated with elaborate staff systems.
@@Justice-ian Because a Council of War has nothing to do with staffs. It's a meeting of subordinate commanders called by their commander when he doesn't know what to do.
1863 H. W. HALLECK Telegram 13 July (1877) III. 148 Act upon your own judgment and make your Generals execute your orders. Call no counsel [sic] of war. It is proverbial that counsels of war never fight.
1891 A. FORBES Barracks, Bivouacs & Battles 191 Solomon’s adage that in the multitude of counsellors there is wisdom does not apply to war. ‘Councils of war never fight’ has passed into a proverb.
1998 Washington Times 28 Sept. A21 A council of war never fights, and in a crisis the duty of a leader is to lead and not to take refuge behind the generally timid wisdom of a multitude of councilors.
@@colbeausabre8842 I looked it up just in case, and every definition I found agrees it's a group of subordinate officers that advise a commander on military decisions - just like a staff. I didn't find many official military definitions, because it's not current US doctrinal terminology; the closest I found was a National Defense University citation of "Council of War: A History of the Joint Chiefs of Staff". But hey, what do dictionaries and NDU know that could outweigh your three cherry-picked quotes?
@@Justice-ianGerman staffs were not particularly big.
17:03 - "...Darth Vader..."
Point of order, sir! That was a member of the lawfully-elected government, hunting the outlaws.
nerd
Yes, he is confusing 'outlaws' with 'villains'. They re not the same thing. An outlaw is someone who has been placed outside the pale of law due to noncomformance (mostly), typically a rogue element and robber, and anyone can kill them with impunity. A villain is just any bad guy, and many highwaymen and robbers were never outlaws, since they still retained the full rights of citizenship such as right to trial, etc. Outlawry was originally a convenient punishment and way of getting rid of annoying criminals. Just promise everyone that there will be no consequences if they shoot them dead.
1:04:27 Love the idea of David Fletcher absconding with the convention attendees to the local pub.
UNEXPECTED MONTY PYTHON
The easter bunny has had enough ;)
I wasn't expecting the....
Chieftain, it’s June 1947. The UN has asked you to design an APC, SPG, SPAA, recon car, light, medium, and heavy tank. You can pick and choose any features from any vehicle from WW2, cost is not an issue.
Why would you trust the most corrupt organization in the history of the world with top shelf military equipment? They'd just sell it to the highest bidder and pocket the money for themselves.
@@richardm3023 While likely true....how is that Chieftains problem? He's getting paid to design them, nothing else.
(note, seems a bit excessive a question, but you know...)
So the opposite of Elbonia question?
Well, I think you just explained why people keep telling me that I talk oddly after my enlistment. I figured it was lost accent from deployments, but your language divergent makes more sense after trying out the examples.
My dad (gone 10 years now) used to call it the GarBage, because everybody hated it. Thanks for bringing back the memory and the feels. :)
"Animal Husbandry!" - I'm crying :')
Re filming the Strv 103C, Stefan peobably reasoned that there was nothing you could break that he didn't have the knowledge and spare parts to replace after training 18-19yo conscripts on it for the better part of three decades XD
Ha, toward the end when we hear Chieftain Jr. stomping around, I would have sworn you only just announced the arrival and were painting the room days ago... How time flies!
"Even my mortgage isn't that high"
Though technically true, I doubt Cirrus will agree to a 30 year payment plan.
Unless they've changed it, the Army Prepositioning Squadron is APS-4. MPS-1 was the now defunct Marine prepositioning squadron in the med, MPS-2 at Diego Garcia, MPS-3 at Guam/Saipan, and APS-4 is also at Diego Garcia. There are also other types of pre-po's attached to the various squadrons, this includes Army and AF ammo, and Army general supply. There used to be Navy ammo and tankers. In reality, the Marines are much more able to achieve combat readiness in a new theater than the Army. They have a three phase plan: 1) on deployment MEU arrives and secures foot print ashore including airfield and suitable port or LOTS beach. Marines are flown in to meet up with arriving MPS ships to constitute one MEB per squadron, and finally additional marines with equipment arrive from stateside via USN gator freighters.
As a former merchant mariner, I am well aware of our lack of sealift capability. It bit us in the ass in 1990, so we were ready in '01-03, but now we've let it slide again.
To add context. operation Desert Shield (defence of Saudi Arabia from Iraqi incursion) in 1990 had the US Marine deployment from Diego Garcia (Indian Ocean) rolling in 48hrs. This with the Saudi airforce - and frankly the physical presence of Iran - was (barely) sufficient to deter further Iraqi advances beyond Kuwait. It was a month before sufficient forces were deployed into Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf to begin the more famous Desert Storm counter-offensive.
Just saying if the no question text on screen significantly eases video production, I’m all for it
Well done as always. Keep up the good work.
These are among my favorite videos on CZcams, and I just wanted to say thanks.
Monty Python The Holy Grail Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog that appeared on one of your earlier videos was inspiration for a memorable Christmas present!
In the fighting in Burma Sherman’s were used for bridging. The would be driven into the river to be bridged and the road bed layer on top. Therefore they would be “lost”.
Also Valentines (Burmark)
That sounds like a really inefficient use of expensive armored vehicles. You could do the same with a truck. Although it probably says more that they didn't really need tanks in Burma and they did badly need trucks. They also frequently had tanks sitting awaiting refurbishment that were not useful for anything else, or just ones that had been shot up. The Germans and Soviets definitely used battlefield hulks for the same purpose. And if the hill was still good there isn't any real reason you can't use it for a while and then drag it back out and rebuild it after the fact.
Although knowing the allies they found out cheaper to just leave them there and send new ones. Especially if the war was already over, at which time they were just throwing take and planes into the ocean and bulldozing them into pits. Amazing amount of wastage during that war. Then you see the "major fighter contracts" of the 30s where they might build 200 new fighters, while during the war even the UK would build 100 Mk.IX Wellingtons with pressurized cabins...and then just never use them at all. The US was even worse for that.
Iraqi Death Blossom. Perfect name for a death metal band.
Or a candy
@@jon9021 Bright colours. Explosive flavour.
I've always wondered about your pronunciation of your last name. Thanks for explaining the difference between American pronunciation and yours. I know several people named Moran and we've always pronounced it "More-ran". Thank you for continuing to produce excellent content on your channel!
I think the reason most people say MorAn instead of MOran, is because that sounds a little too close to "moron".
@@bwcmakro Lol! I actually used to have a boss with the last name Moran who was a real idiotic piece of work. You'd never guess what nickname we gave him....
I worked for a Moran here in the US - he pronounced it more-ran so I've stuck with that since.
I took over as the CO of my old regiment in 1988, the unit comprised light recon units (M113A1 with T50 turrets), Medium Recon vehicles (M113A1 with Scorpion turrets and 76mm guns), TLC (M548), Recovery vehicles and lifting vehicles (all based on M113A1 chassis). I took a shot with the Scorpion turret and recalling my training as a Centurion gunner managed to hit the target on the second shot!
As a uninformed myself it may be a naive question, but why put recon together with recovery vehicles? Shouldn't the recon usually be way out front? If they get stuck somewhere I'd have expected your not getting there with some recovery anyways unless you also bring some more shooting bangbang people along and then couldn't you also just use their recovery vehicles?
@@mergele1000 It’s an Australian thing, we copy the UK in our practices and always take recovery vehicles with us! It also enables our RAEME units to use vehicles they train on rather then use unfamiliar equipment, which may be destroyed or inactive. I failed to comment that the T50 turrets we’re armed with a mix of .30 and .50 cal MGs.
Why the Lee Enfield stayed with stripper clips:
1) cheaper to make clipper straps than magazines .
2) more rounds carried in a smaller space.
3) the magazine was prone to feed lip damage when taking the magazine in and out .
4) faster to top off magazine with a 5 round stripper clip.
5 ) stripper clips are faster and simple to make requiring less materials .
6) Thumbing rounds into a removed magazine gives a lot more opportunity to drop and lose it, as I did mine for my 1916 SMLE. IDK where it went, I lost it at home, not at the range. They came with one mag, which was only to be removed for cleaning. In the OG SMLE, the mag was chained to the rifle, even.
A major reason was that it was easier to carry the issued number of rounds - 100? 150? I forget - loose or in strippers than in 20 or 25 heavy/bulky magazines. .303 is NOT a light or small round.
Easily accessed for cleaning when mag out. Mag off was normal when carrying out IA drills.
Reloads came in cloth bandoliers post WW2 which were a buggerance with chargers anyway but a nightmare with magazines with the extra bulk and weight. Pouches were for grenades etc. and Bren magazines. Doctrine was to top up the magazine every 5 rounds. The extra 5 being for exceptional use. Fumbling about for a magazine and putting the empty away makes it little slower to pull a charger out of the bandolier and load it. In WW1 they had 25 round ‘trench’ magazines so the decision to stay with the charger reloading post WW1 was a conscious decision.
@@johnfisk811 I think both BotR and British muzzle loader have done comparison between single feed , stripper clips and magazine changes.
A 1h 12m Q&A, ill watch this tomorrow
For the Sealift Command, one of the biggest hassle would be mobilizing and calling up all the civilian mariners/MMCs to crew the ships. Getting them off their current towboats/freighters/tankers, and then getting them to the sealift ships. Not to mention getting the contracted/chartered civilian ships unloaded, maneuvered, and then reloaded with mission required materiel.
This is one of the reasons that there are 7 MEU's on constant deployment cycle. The whole Amphibious Ready Group goes through predeployment training together, there's always one deployed, 2 weeks to anywhere in the world max.
one thing that could help is forewarning. It depends on if there are weeks of tension before the risk of war breaks out allowing reservists to be called back in case war breaks out. In many cases wars break out after a few weeks of threats and rumors of war.
WW1, WW2, Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, and the US Invasion of Iraq all came after weeks (or months) of hostile posturing.
Operation think tank is something that everyone should watch. 12 videos 20 mins long. Excellent entertainment.
As usual, you do a great job "covering the waterfront". Thanks again for your insight and probity.
ah Chieftain, i know this is an older one but i could listen to you talk for hours on end, thank you for passing on your clearly expansive knowledge and greetings all is a great touch very friendly!
Apparently Americans adopted the French pronunciation of garage. As an American, it was Elton John's pronunciation of garage in Levon that clued me that Brits said it differently. Enjoyed as usual. Thank you.
and this might be why they called the locals injuns, probably to do with moving into the already occupied New France (the big bit in the middle from the Canadian border to the Mississippi delta :)
@@BRIANJAMESGIBB I had read that it was the doughboys in France that adopted the pronunciation. On an aside, Bijou, popular in the South came from the French influence of early cinema. Take care.
@@gmatgmat ta :)
And saying your last name as "more-Ann" avoids any difficulties with Americans slurring "More-ahn", keeping the pronunciation from turning it into an insult.
English already has a lot of German and French influence. Then throw in the roughly 180 regional accents/dialects of the "old country" then transport that halfway around the globe, then teach it to potentially hundreds of indigenous tribes, and then have an influx of people all over the globe come, settle, and then it all mixes together, it is really miraculous that any of us here in the US can be understood anywhere. My mother was from one state south of where I live and I was taught to say "warsh" instead of "wash" and "thee-ater" instead of "theater". Thankfully the state I was born in is one of those that the people on the weather channel sound like. Between that and watching british TV that airs on the free tv stations here in the middle of the US (for some reason) I am able to communicate with the locals without them taking away twenty IQ points. The down side is that I don't really know what my "real" voice sounds like now. Though when I get tired I have a tendency to slip into a southern accent.
Great video answer session. Stay safe.
Hands clapping vigorously with huge smile at end of Video !
On your Lee Enfield which is lovely btw. Your comment “it does exactly what it is supposed to do”. Is what every bit of military equipment should reach! However how much that is produced for armed forces fails to reach this standard. Saor Alba
Well done and waiting with for the next one. Take care
0:05 "Behind the rabbit" "No, it IS the rabbit".
1:04:55 And experienced father - no crash sound, everything is allright :)
Thank you. Hope you enjoyed Ft. Hood. Relatively cool.
Regarding the "smelly", I think that in combat, stripper clips into removable short magazines make sense for several reasons.
1. Carrying several loaded magazines is heavier and more bulky than stripper clips.
2. Stripper clips are easier and cheaper to produce than box magazines, so it makes them more disposable.
3. Loading a box magazine using stripper clips is faster than pulling out an empty box and loading it.
i think Rob at British Muzzle Loaders, Ian at Forgotten Weapons or Bloke over at Bloke on the Range would be the best to answer the question in detail but the gist is this:
the gun (like all military guns) is a product of it's period and doctrine it was designed for
basically the first idea was to have each rifles come with two magazines, one would be chained to the gun and the other be carried on the soldier's gear. the idea was for the rifle to be used normally (ordered single shots in volley) then on order the soldier would switch to rapid magazine fire in order to repel an enemy assault. this idea was never put in practice because of different factors and was finally put to rest with the invention of the charger clips and they already had twice the magazine count of every one else (bar the French, but the Lebel wasn't conducive to rapid loading)
Not to mention it’s a lot easier to hand fit one magazine to one gun at the factory instead of making all magazines interchangeable
And that’s why stripper clips are the current infantry method of reloading-oh wait
Just like the SAFN it’s just a case of reactionaries not understanding the future is coming regardless, had they actually given British infantry magazines I would think the British infantry would be superior to the German infantry
@@looinrims no the reason magazines are used now is because manufacturing processes have advanced so much that very little if any hand fitting is needed meaning you can actually have reliable interchangeable mags
@@universal1014 lol whatever makes you feel better
As a fellow Irishman in America, who has spent a lot of time in the UK, I have found that "amn't" is almost universally Irish, not even used by our neighbours to the East, never mind our neighbours to the West. It seems fairly obvious what it means to me, but other people seem to have never heard of it.
Amn't seemed to have been particularly expunged early in school in the UK for a few decades now.
@@tisFrancesfault Kind of like "ain't" here in the US I suppose.
@@tisFrancesfault I was born in 97 in the UK and amn't never came up at school, but they didn't discourage any contractions, only double negatives, which was common in my area in the South.
I'm a 60 Brit and have never heard of it, so Irish only is more than possible. I'm actually struggling to understand it and would never know what is meant if it was spoken. Does it mean "I am not" ?
@@Cloudman572 It means Am not. As fair as I can tell it was more an Irish Scottish and Northern English thing. At very least its basically extinct in England these days. that said I've not heard it much used by anyone in person in a looong time, even by the Irish I've met.
its just one of those words thats fell out of favour with time i think. As is the way of things.
Emotional support Missile
Hehehe
YT search aint giving if u've done it.
Love to see one of your deep vids about the armor events during the battle of the bulge Chieftain. ^^
Thank you once again!
Am't is a new one to me. Guess I'll have to go to Ireland to pick up new terms? I do like playing fast and loose with English, so got some new terms from my trips to the UK: trouser cough and gobsmacked are marvelous examples. Since I cannot go to an Irish pub just now, I think you should set your sights (see what I did there?) on converting Texans' accent to kinder Irish accents? Glad you got your first shot. Slainte Vas, Chieftain.
I always assumed the Porsche design group's real reason for churning out so much stuff was to keep the designers firmly employed in a nice air-conditioned Totally Vital office, and not shipped to the Eastern Front.
They’re lucky, if that’s true, because If I was in charge after the 80th failed Porsche piece I would liquidate the Porsche company itself and just give the factories to other companies because I swear he’s the main industrial reason they lost
@@looinrims not really.
Porsche was chief of a design bureau, wich coincidentally was and is part of the VW Group (Volkswagen). Porsche and his Team designed the VW Typ 1 (more commonly known as VW Beetle/Käfer) as the primary car for the german population.
Also the "Kübelwagen" goes to his credit as several other well used vehicles.
Thank you. I was in Argentina a few years ago when I saw that Sherman and thought “wait what” and knew our guide would be no help.
The reason they kept with it being a "charger" or strip loader for the rifle was in part due to cost and ease of manufacture. Stripper clips ("chargers" as the Brits would call them) are easier and cheaper to mass produce to the same quality than magazines. They're also lighter so a soldier could, in theory, carry a greater number of stripper clips of ammo than they could magazines. However, you pay for this in loading speed. Once you get far more easily mass produced magazines being made lighter...
That and there isn't much point in making your bolt action rifle load slightly faster. "we saved £10M by not adopting a new semi auto rifle, but we used that money we saved developing mass production for the magazines so they can load half a second faster between shots 10 and 11. Although they can't carry as much ammo now because the magazines are heavier and more bulky than the chargers, and we need all new bandoliers and ammo crates as well. And a separate supply of ammo for loading into machine guns."
from what i've read, the decision to keep the Lee Enfield rifles capable of being a top-loader was simply a cost/recourse thing, a clip was a lot cheaper and could be treated as disposible (capable of being stamp-bent out of a tiny strip), and even post war the memories of just how important those small bits of metal saving were was still fresh in the minds
Rounds in stripper clips could be used in the Lee-Enfield or to refill Bren Gun magazines.
By WW2 the Bren Gun was an infantry section's main weapon. Hand grenades were second and rifles were third. The official .303 load for an infantry soldier was 120 rounds: 10 in the rifle, 50 in stripper clips, and 60 in Bren magazines. And a stripper clip quide to refill the Bren magazines manually.
The Lee system was originally intended to be issued with multiple detachable box magazines, but this was nixed due to cost and the difficulty in making the magazines reliably and cheaply in the 1880s. The Lee-Metfords and early Lee-Enfields then had no quick loading system at all, before eventually a stripper clip (Charger if you are British) system was bodged on that it had for the rest of its life. Why later post WW2 production didn't bother going back to original idea of multiple issued detachable boxes was probably a matter of it no longer being a first line rifle by that point, thus further constraining the desire to spend dollars, pounds, or various other bits of seigniorage.
I did take the bait and visited the Cirrus web site, went down the rabbit hole to see the Vision Jet.....Wow !!! how amusing. I could not find the brochure on the flying DeLorean DMC 12. Shouldn't we driving flying cars by now? I guess the subject is a little off topic. Great video I really enjoy them, OH BUGGER - "THE TANK IS ON FIRE"
Question: what do you think of the US Army's reduction of logistics as of late by working to eliminate the landing crafts and landing ships it operated and reducing it's railroad capabilities. In the Cold War and prior era an Army commander might be able to call on LCMs, LCTs, ect to move tanks and such around, and the railroad operations would have been handled totally by Army personelle and not beholden to host countries like now. It seems like in comparison to WW2, Korea, or Vietnam, an Army commander today would be hard pressed to much more than execute road marches, or airlifts. Wouldn't having more organic logistical support be helpful?
Lol...simple answer is yes...make it a little more complicated you can stick most of those assets in the Reserves or National Gaurd branches, which means on a regular day to day operations those assets would not be needed, but during national emergencies those assets could be activated relatively easily...
22:59 I'm impressed over The Chieftain's ability to remember reports he has read. -- Those Irish schools most have been real hard on rote learning!...
Fun vid, wish everyone well
While playing Opfor would be fun, playing POW sucks. One Reforger in the 70's those of us in my platoon, Recon Platoon 3/35th Armored Battalion stationed in Bamberg, were dropped off in pairs in between the 1st Infantry Div units brought over from Texas, and whoever they were fighting daily with black arm bands so units could practice handling prisoners. For 2 weeks. The first part of the day, with the lower level units, could be rough, once we were moved to the collection points things got more civilized and being interviewed by the MI guys was fun.
But we were kept outside all day until our truck picked back up in the evening, and wintertime Germany is COLD.
That sounds fascinating. And COLD.
The army probably used a recon unit for this to reinforce that being taken POW is something you should really really try and avoid.
I suspect the frontline soviet/WP units handling of POWs is/would've been pretty harsh...
The italians had a great manufacturing base in machinery ,even Lamborghini made little tracked units like mini bulldozer types for work in the orchard up to big tracked tractors and wheeled tractors ,Hey from New Zealand,I served in our army for a bit and my whole tank experience was holding on to gun of a Scorpion/scimatar along with my mate as the dam tankers are flying along this gravel forest road and i bet laughing at us ,we had our full kit and a MG and ammo,man they were clicking gears like a car lol that thing could go really fast and was smooth and enjoyable once we realised they are good tankers
According to a thesis I read, the development and fielding of the SMLE was hugely affected by elements of the top brass who thought very poorly of their troops and wanted to restrict as much as possible their ability to consume ammunition. The detachable magazine was agreed upon in that it allowed ease of cleaning and repair, and offered the _possibility_ of issuing additional units at some potential future time when it could be determined to not lead to deleterious wastage.
Also, according to Lindybiege, you can carry more ammo by weight in stripper clips than in magazines. Also stripper clips are much cheaper to produce.
Additionally building a magazine is complex and they can be fragile. It was just more practical to charger feed. Also using five round chargers is faster than magazine changing every ten.
@@benjamin4673 Lindybeige is fun, but don't ever accuse him of historical accuracy :D
You mentioned the M2/3 Bradley and I just watched The Pentagon Wars. I'd enjoy hearing your take on it.
chargers are cheaper then magazines, also back when they adopted the Lee magazine on the Lee Metford and the long Lee. At this time they decided that yes detachable magazine but those are expensive chain one to the gun, the long Lee did not have a charger shoulder until there was a upgrade program. The No.4 is this combination of all the stuff that worked, and they found that you could top up from chargers just as fast as a magazine change
1:03:00 According to what I remember from the relevant episodes on the long enfields from C&Rsenal and forgotten weapons, the stripper-clip loading was mantained due to cost savings and due to the fact that the magazines were quite easy to dent; also general mistrust in the ability of the grunts to not lose the magazine.
Given we haven’t really seen it in its final form, any thoughts on the Chally 3?
When it comes to affording piston planes; you could consider a timeshare arrangement where owners share the maintenance costs too. The problem is, it's still pursuing the $100.00 hamburger! The experimental home builts just offer so much more for the price. I love the Zlin aircraft. 4 seats and aerobatic! Doing a couple a loops and rolls is fun for everyone and doesn't upset stomachs if not done to excess.
I've read that book myself. Its an excellent book.
There is a simple reason that the British kept the top loading for the Lee Enfield even though the magazine is reasonably easy to remove. It was cost. Magazines are somewhat expensive to produce and add weight to carry, especially something with as thick steel walls as the Lee Enfield 10 round magazine. Ammunition was issued in “chargers” or “clips” in the US that were cheap and easy to produce and weigh next to nothing. A soldier could take a clip out of his pouch, place it in the feed bridge over the open bolt, and just slide all the rounds into the magazine. With practice it’s just as fast as changing a magazine.
It’s also a holdover from the early days of the rifle. Older models, even through World War 1, had a magazine cutoff. They were intended to be used in volley fire single shot at the command of an officer. The soldier would keep the magazine loaded and the cutoff engaged and load the rifle with single shots, with the magazine used for rapid fire when ordered or in emergency. World War 1 showed them this was a silly idea and later models stopped having this.
that rabbit's dynamite!
Former SP arty mechanic here. (63D old system, 91P new system) The M548 was a pain in the ass. When it had a combat load, (24/7 in Korea) it had to be unloaded to service the rear of the pack, which meant pallets of 8" or 155mm projos, powder, and RAP rounds. The beam used for loading/unloading hung from the bows for supporting the canvas. I never felt entirely safe using the hoist because of that. At Ft Hood, we had problems with algae growing in the fuel tanks, which would clog the screens in the fuel pumps. the only solution was to unload the vehicle to get to the pumps, or find a small mechanic who might be able to squeeze in through the top. Despite having the same drivetrain as the M113, it seemed to break down more often.
№4Mk2 looks gorgeous with its light wood and blued parts.
wonderful time of the year to be in central Texas. Unfortunately even the locals F5 tornado's would take a look at a 70 ton M1A2C & say "Let's Play".
One of every gun the Irish had! That means a possibility for a Swedish K (kpist m45), The best of the crappy smgs!
Mr. Moran, would like to see you visit the USS New Jersey, Alabama, or any other battleship. Perhaps discussion with the Battleship New Jersey's curator Ryan. He has an excellent channel covering the ship. Would be great to see conversation between you two about ship guns and armor versus tanks. A tankers' perspective on 16" naval gun turrets would be interesting for sure!
Dry humor at its very best and lots of information.
The M114 was very under powered with the Chevy 327. Also, when I was at Track Vehicle Mechanics school Ft. Knox in the Mid 70's, I had a chance to talk to the mechanics in the Museum vehicle repair facility about the M114. It seems the M114 had a hull flaw that caused it to warp and knock the driveline out of alignment. The M551 was loved by the CAV 3/12 3AD. They hated their replacement, the M60, because of its weight and height. I found the height issue odd because of the 551's cupola "bucket". We were authorized to do small fender puncher repairs with the old thicker aluminum beer cans. The standard cannon round was reliable, but the Shillelagh system was temperamental.
"If You Get Caught, You Will be Shot"
I know that would keep me in line
Mr. Chieftain- Thanks for the informative discussion of how to properly pronounce your name, as it might help if I meet a person with a similar appellation. The example of "garage" pronunciation focusing on 1st or 2nd syllable emphasis is not a good one for illustration though, as the proper way to pronounce this word is "grodge".
To elaborate on the 100th Panzer Abteilung, some of their numbers were knocked out at La Fiere bridge by the 82nd Airborne with Bazooka fire and 57mm AT fire on D-Day. So as you surmised, they did not indeed fare well at all.
Leutnant mein französischer Panzer ist kaput!
When you mentioned the Rhino being a Marmon-Herrington I cringed a bit, thinking about how awful it might have been judging by the other things M-H made. Do you have any info or test reports from the Rhino that might tell what quality of vehicle it was? Thanks!
Their armored cars were actually pretty good from what I heard, it’s just that when they were asked to make a tank, they cheaped out and made something you wouldn’t give to the enemy.
My guys named my M1151 "Hoonigan" lol
They just wished they could do burnouts like Hoonigan does.
Two questions:
Has a country ever modified their tanks/armored vehicles based on feedback of another country testing out the vehicle for purchase?
Have you ever experienced a situation where you would have like to/were going to go do 'X' but someone else pulled rank and went instead? I have a coworker, who was in 1st Armored Division, who had waited a few years to go to some training something or other (you got to wear a cool shoulder braid after you went) but a lieutenant pulled rank and went instead.
I think the similarity between the Israeli Sho't Kal and the Swedish Strv 104 is a valid example of the feedback part, though I have no idea if there was an actual discussion instead of the Swedes just liking what they saw.
Israeli complaints about the M73/M219 series machinegun's abysmal performance during the Yom Kippur War finally caused enough furor that the Army replaced it with the M240, a gun they firmly rejected two decades earlier.
If some people also wonder why the UK stuck to toploading their SMLEs like Nick does, logistics.
Originally the troops were supposed to use the cut off and single load unless ordered to engage the magazine and fire at their own time, basically, magazine was there for "a hoard of tribal people suddenly rush you at a stabbing distance". Back then troops were issued two magazines and you were supposed to keep them both loaded, so you would single load for general firing but had 20 rounds "burst" capacity if needed.
Then they added the clip loading feature to rifles and it was found that stripping two five rounds clips is not THAT much slower than reloading a ten-round box mag, and the clips were truly disposable, unlike magazines which were bot non-disposable and not quite interchangeable all the time. The mag drop feature was retained on all the SMLEs because it made the rifle easier to clean not because you were supposed to use it in combat, and some rifles would have their magazines chained to the body of the rifle to preempt loss.
For a more detailed answer given by someone who actually did their research properly, either Ian McCollum or British Muzzleloaders, or C&R arsenal should provide aplenty
A comment on the Sentinel. I appreciate our industry was behind on the technical questions relevant to tank production, but on casting, there's a reason why we had a clear advantage. Australia in the 1930s was second only to the USSR in terms of the size of our foundries and our steel production industry. We were the British Empire's steel manufacturers, on account of the iron ore being here, and the British being able to finance us. This was the days of internal imperial economies of course, and so it makes sense that we didn't just outsource that capacity to China as we do now.
The Soviets on the other hand were cut off from global marketplaces, and had their own pseudo empire to consider, and their famous 5 year plans which saw them set larger and larger targets to industrial achievements, that were likely influenced by how readily explainable they were to the local relevant Bolshevik.
You can read the Chieftain's mind by the look on his face when he heard running down the hall. What's that? Oh.... How long is this hallway, are they ever going to stop? OK continue.
Another detail on Australian Tank production. According to some histories of steel manufacturing in Australia, during WWII there was a critical shortage of nickel. Nickel was essential to making armour plate but all available supplies went into making gun barrels. Various forms of armour plate were devised without nickel and could stop a .303 bullet. So it is no surprise that the Sentinel tank was considered to be experimental and not put into service. According to my father (ex Armoured Division in WWII) in 1943 Australia's Armoured Division was equipped with General Grant tanks in preparation for a Japanese invasion. An excellent tank for that task.
also add in the quality of steel in different countries there was a reason why germany wanted swedish iron so much. as it was apparently really pure and strong straight out of the mine.
Japanese had the absolute worse iron as far as i know consider there katakana design was the result of how poor the iron ore was.
this is something I always find funny when we are talking thickness in tank armor as some countries even if they could build and had the infrastructure to make tanks whit let say 45mm armor.
there 9mm armor might be about a 1/4 as effective as another conntires even if both made the exat same tank because the iron quality was so different.
You have a date with Ian & BOTR.
No excuses accepted.
He has already collabed with Forgotten Weapon's Gun Jesus. The Bloke would be a good collab though. If they could get Ian, Karl, The Bloke, the Chap, and the Chieftain in a single collab video (or collab series) I think you would be able to hear a 29 year old, 5'11", German American man squeal like an 8 year old girl from wherever you were though.
During the cold war the sites were called POMCUS (Prepositioning Of Materiel Configured in Unit Sets) sites.
I appreciate the AAVP7 or LVTP7 on the mantlepiece behind you.
They make great targets
@@colbeausabre8842That's not the kind of comment I would have expected form a Colonel.
Lee designed the Lee rifle to be issued with multiple magazines. The USMC issued Lee rifles in 45-70 with a Mills belt with magazine pockets in the 1870’s. Generals of the time thought replacing empty mags with full ones was a dumb idea. The British later added the top loader for clips. The rifle was too ahead of it’s time.
I can't remember which video it was in now, but Forgotten Weapons did answer the Magazine question, I recall it being a number of factors, such a feed lips still being a bit on the tricky side to make in quantities sufficient to issue every rifle with multiple magazines plus replacements, and the ammo itself already being issued on stripper clips anyway.
N4MK2, I had one of those with even the stock having matched serial numbers. I think the Irish part came from the fact that they had come from a warehouse in Ireland at the time. Roughly 1992. I got mine still wrapped in the paper and cosmoline.
Thoughts on the swiss Panzer 74 and NkPz projects?
The problem with M548 was a lack of armor protection of the cargo area. An artillery explosion in the vicinity was likely to set off the ammunition stored there.
In a similar vein, the 8” howitzer was being studied to add ballistic protection for the crew in the mid 80’s using Kevlar. A near by explosion would be a “significant emotional event “ for the crew.
An educated guess would be this issue, plus the success of the MLRS led to the retirement of that howitzer
Also, the new ammunition carrier uses the body of the 155mm vehicle, and, I think, carries more. So you have communality of parts and repair experience.
I've driven the M548 but not a M113. As a Chief of Fire Direction in SP M109A1 unit we used an M577A1 as our FDC. The tiny space for the driver was definitely a bit cramped and very hard to get in and out of in a hurry. And as the E6 section Chief I was usually simply called Chief. My favorite vehicle to drive was the good old jeep! By the way I was an old cold warrior 81-89. I was stationed in the old Wehrmacht kaserne at Baumholder. The worst vehicle I ever drove was a 5ton truck. I was only two days out of basic at Fort Sill and waiting for orders when someone tok me down to a motorpool and typed me out a license with the jeep, 577, 548, 5 ton, gamma goat(worst vehicle ever designed) plus various others like sedans and one which I never saw till my last days in the army...a humvee. For years it was on my lisence but no one had ever seen one! I looked inside a m113 and it seemed identical to our 548 and 577. You mentioned railroading which we had to do a lot of while in Germany. During reforger we realized how dangerous that was. The German trains we used were electric so it was imperative...IMPERATIVE!!! that you tied down the antennas or else you'd have bbq GI. We were always ordered out of our vehicles before we railroaded. I saw first hand why when a gamma goat with half a dozen guys drove onto the rail car with it's antennas up and there was a nasty incident. Gamma goats also were big on tipping over. One from our service battery tipped over with loss of life there as well. Finally we were going down the Autobahn when a platoon of m60s missed their turn off. It was a foggy morning, the platoon leader decided to turn around and head back to the ramp. I'm assuming he's only been in the army a few days or something because they pivot steered blocking a couple lanes of Autobahn. We were half a mile ahead and heard the racket when twenty or so cars all piled up. As we passed through little German villages we ran over cars and anything in the way past crowds of very angry Germans as well as one time some five or six old guys who came to attention and gave us the Nazi salute. This was barely 40 years after the end of the war. We also would pull off the road and set up our battery which of course destroyed the farmers field. There were these army public relations guys driving around with us who would pull out a special note pad and wrote some numbers down which usually made the farmers very happy. I was part of the 8th infantry division our job to hold the Fulda gap when the Russians attacked. We knew we could not expect to hold longer than three days by which time we were told the first reinforcements would begin to arrive. Of course as there were only some 250,000 guys in Germany, plus a tiny bundeswehr and a handful of Brits and Benelux NATO troops. We had been told there were another 50,000 secretly posted in Greenland but who knows about that. So by the time troops arrive from the US, unload and try to head east they'll be running into refugees etc so you might as well say they will never reach us, which is why we always had nuke rounds and fuses with us. On the third day we would get the order to disperse than the fire direction officer and myself would open the safe to get our codes, someone would have come from battalion with the fuses, a truck would have dropped off one or two rounds and with the one gun we had kept with us we would compute a nuke fire mission, give the order to fire and then get the heck out of there!! Luckily the reds went bankrupt and that was the end of that!
Hey man. Moving to FL shortly and like your office set-up. Desk and bookshelf manufacturer? Thanks
“Vaguely Viable” alliteration on point.
I can answer the question about why the SMLE uses clips even though it has a detachable magazine (inherited from the preceding Long Lees). There are a couple of reasons.
Most important when the base rifle was designed were:
1. Long term storage and issuing considerations. It was expected that ammunition usage in the next big European War would be greater than production capacity (they were correct) so it was important to have stockpiles to draw from to make up for shortfalls. Clips can remain loaded in storage indefinitely, but loaded detachable magazines will eventually have problems with the spring. Unloaded magazines would need to be loaded before issuing, which would require manpower and manpower was also expected to be in short supply (also correct).
2. Cost. Stamped detachable magazines didn't exist yet, so there was a substantial increase in cost if you wanted to keep the same quantity of ammunition in magazines instead of clips.
Other considerations were on the personal scale:
3. Magazines are heavier and bulkier than the clips, which meant either less ammo on the soldier if the same weight/bulk was adhered to or greater fatigue if the same ammo load was carried.
4. For magazines of 10 or less cartridges loading via clip is usually faster than swapping magazines.
For these reasons almost every country used clips instead of detachable magazines for their rifles in that era. I think it's clear that the production and manpower considerations in #1 would have guaranteed it on their own, even now major militaries use clips for some long term storage due to magazine spring concerns. Since the Short Lees inherited an existing detachable magazine those users had an actual debate on their hands, switching to all detachable magazines was a possibility soldiers could have traded or scrounged towards. That we didn't see that happen much shows the importance of points 3 and 4 for the individual soldier.
Would love an inside the hatch on a Super Sherman with the 105mm.
Thanks
Re: Drones and Tanks. I am curious if you think short range military drones attached to armoured units would be viable? Either as vision/detection supplements for when the tank is in cover and does not want to peek. Or as indirect, direct fire weapons platforms to supplement the armours load-out? And would crews WANT to have them around (more equipment and electronics to care for). Would they be practical to place on every tank in a unit, or just the lead/command tank?
(Similar to how they were utilized in the game from eons past: Command and Conquer: Generals: Zero-Hour).