E36 Driven - Buy an M3 or Modify a 328i?
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- čas přidán 7. 04. 2021
- Reviewing the BMW E36 M3 3.0 against the modified M50B30 stroker to answer whether it's better to buy an M3 outright or spend time on 328i modifications.
#E36 #328i #M3
Thanks for watching!
/ pamogriffiths
⏭ What to Watch Next:
Buying an unloved E36 M3 3.0: • Buying a neglected E36...
E36 Spongy Brakes Permanently Fixed: • E36 SPONGY BRAKES PERM...
E36 M50B30 Stroker First Start & Drive: • E36 M50B30 Stroker Fir...
E36 Mods: What did I keep and ditch? • E36 Mods Update: What ...
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In the next video, we begin modifying the M3 and uncover some suspension issues which could explain the sloppy handling described in this video...
Watch here: czcams.com/video/MbZr3N3NUT4/video.html
My dream spec E36 would be a coupe with an S54, 6 speed box, 4.1 LSD and a pair of Recaro pole positions. You could probably build something like that for the same price as a mint M3 if you were handy with the spanners.
Have you seen such combo already? Any links?
Im also thinking about it
@@jw200 www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1647443 , this one's a great project thread but it's an all out track car.
I missed the boat on m3's, couldn't afford one 17 years ago when I bought my 325, and now at 25k they are out of my price range for a hobby car.
My 325 now has m3 interior, brakes, lsd and is poly bushed etc. Yeah it could be faster - it's not actually that fast by modern standards, but it's probably quick enough for a weekend blast and it feels really special and fun when I drive it. Bodywork and rust protection is next and after that maybe I'll look at engine conversions but who knows
Love your channel Mate. Easy going and enjoyable to watch. Building my own e30 with US spec e36 M3 drivetrain right now. Building cars is to rewarding.
Well said. I am modifying mine it's everything you said, I am enjoying the journey (most of the time overall), just can't wait for it to be finished. You have been a great help. Thanks.
Heard the same opinion on vaders before, you’re not the only one.
They are crap. I got 3 e36, 1 has regular seats, 1 sport seats and 1 vaders, and even tho they are good looking, 0 confort, i never do long runs on them. They are legit crap for me just because of that, i drive way to much also, maybe Thats why
I have a 1999 E36 318is I bought for £200 five years ago. I've fitted lowered and stiffened springs and shocks plus a full polybush kit and a £25 eBay Scorpion back box.which sounds awesome, and a half leather sports interior for £60.Much as I love the sound and power of the 6 cylinder cars the M44 is a hoot and should not be overlooked.
👍
just bought a dakar yellow 1993 3.0 m3, always wanted one when i was younger but wasnt in a position to have one before now, great driving wee car with plenty of punch out of the box
Great video!!! Having seen both these cars in the flesh I have an appreciation for them for different reasons.
Your M3 makes me weak when I'm near it, one of the few cars I've ever seen that makes me genuinely upset with jealousy lol. The 328i is a bit like my 325i, yes it's a passion project and yes you've got a lot of man hours and love invested but it's not becoming so expensive and collectable that you are afraid to grab it by the scruff of the neck now and again. I wonder if genuine and clean M3's will become so valuable it'll take the fun and enjoyment out of them - I can't remember the last time I saw a genuine E30 M3, let alone on the road.
Sounds awesome nice to see you back 👍
Thanks
Absolutely fantastic video. Really enjoyable to watch and refreshing, well done.
Thanks.
I was faced with the same M3 or 328i choice a few months ago when looking for an E36. I ultimately went with a 1998 328is coupe as it’s so much more bang for your buck. I’m in the US where the M3 got only a 240hp motor. My 328is makes about 220hp. Car also came with the same Bilstein B12 pro kit on yours.
I bought the car for not even half the price of an M3. Couldn’t pass that up plus it’s a ZF 5 speed. Only catch is that the car was a 15 hour drive from my home.
America..... Its huge! 15hrs for a 200 buck BM is a fair trade though 👍👍
Zf 5 speed in Australia $1000+ box standalone. We get robbed in Australia
The e36 chassis is very capable.
Back in the day I would've said m3 for sure. But they cost so much now . You can do just as well if not better with a modded 328.
But the m3 will hold its value more.
One thing that was a game changer for me was the financial appreciation: a stock or lightly modified M3 is always gonna appreciate, while modifying a normal E36 requires lot of cash that you will probably never get back, once you start putting together the costs of engine mods, differential, exhaust, intake, you'll realize an M3 would have been a better choice
This is a very important point I didn't lean on in the video. Well said 👍
Depends on how far you wanna go, or if you actually plan on selling the car
Some people don’t plan on selling
If you have the cash, can afford to keep it in near enough as good condition as you bought it, and have little interest in building a project car up then yes a clean M3 is clearly the better choice. Modding up a car to save money is a fallacy, so do it for the journey, the pride and the enjoyment.
My first car was a cheaply priced very tired looking 1993 manual E36 325i coupe but I absolutely adored it regardless of the fading paint and dents, It was very reliable and put a smile on my face every time I drove it. Had it for two years, the only things I needed to address was a clutch (my god, that was more than I paid for the car), tyres, suspension and brakes, it never let me down the old girl. 8 not so great cars later (various 90s Falcons & Commodores a 2005 Astra and a 2009 Mondeo)
I couldn't resist the urge to get back in the drivers seat of an E36. I found a beautifully looked after 1991 manual 325i non vanos slicktop sedan that had a full genuine M3 kit installed including the style 24 wheels and an M-Tech 2 steering wheel. I just had to buy it, fast forward 4 years and she's still my pride and joy but now with some coilovers to really liven up the feel of the car, I wouldn't trade her for anything!
Great share man, that's so cool you wandered away only to come back to the old German steel. Glad it's paid off sir 👍
I have a 318is with a 3.45 45% 2 way LSD and will eventually be swapping in an 11.5:1 M54B30 with the head port matched to an M50 manifold and tuned on either a Haltech or Link ECU. Long tube headers, high flow cats, twin pipe exhaust, Scorpion muffler. Bilstein B8's, King Springs lowered, all 'round new bushings (not poly), DBA T2 rotors and Bendix Ultimate pads. 17" replica style 167 rims that I'll be replacing some day after the swap with Bimmerworld TA5R rims, wrapped in I don't know what high performance tyre yet.
Seen your nightmare with the M54 threads stripping out and already made sure mine are good by re-torqueing the head back to spec again.
I love the E36. I'll have spent as much building this thing to what I want exactly as I would've spent buying an M3 anyway, but it's worth it to have spent a small fraction of that overall cost to have bought a 318is to start off with, wet my toes and drive it, then slowly build it up and feel it get better and better each time it rolls back out of the garage.
You might want to look into the n54 turbo intake. There a bloke in Poland who sells the whole kit, might be pricey, but he gets close to 270whp on the m54b30
czcams.com/video/FGLX8b5YN5A/video.html
I’ve got a m3 evo and yes I totally agree about the seats I was thinking of taking mine out putting them in the loft wrapped up and getting myself some nice bucket seats but I do like the look of the vaders
I'll keep my 325 with stock bumpers. Rarer than an M3 at this point.
My dream spec is a highly tuned m42 4cyl for that full supertouring vibe 🏎
True to period 👍
I like that m52b28 is decent bit lighter than s5x engine, because of aluminum engine block.
My dream spec e36 - m52b28 with solid lifters, race camshafts, all the bells and whistles to make it 100hp per 1l
+ hardcore weight reduction to get it close to 1000kg weight.
+ high end coilovers and all the chassis/suspension mods.
Your outtakes are class!! :-D
Thanks, we love putting them in occasionally.
@@ManSeeksCivic The video was spot on too! Make me feel better about my old 328 touring project!
Stick with it man, tourings are getting rare and still have huge "cool" factor 👍
It still amazes me how good the e36 really is, particularly on circuit which is probably why they are still so popular! Some poly bushes all round and some proper coilovers make these a quick car. You mentioned the shit brakes for the m3, I tried 330 set up on mine and they were better but not amazing, I now have a 4 pot brembo caliper set up with 325mm discs and pagid rs29 pads and it has transformed the braking performance of the car. Love the content, awesome you have both cars 👌 if you were to change one thing about the m3 other than brakes what would it be?
If it were mine, I'd probably fit some good coilovers to supplement the handling. Like I say in the video, those 2 areas (brakes and suspension) are the weak points.
Aside from brakes it needs thicker ARBs, a smaller steering wheel, Gt class 2 wing, and square wheel setup. Worried about spoiling the road comfort too quickly with suspension changes but want to do some track days in it.
Congrats with that lovely M3, wanna trade the vadar seats for original sportseats 😂?
I'm a much bigger fan of the E34, and recently having bought one, I plan on doing a stroker build like yourself (525i, so starting with an M50B25), but the end goal would absolutely be to swap an S50B32 on it. S38's are rare as they are and the M5's can keep them, even tho I wouldn't mind one whatsoever, just think the S50 is a better option regarding parts' availability and funds 😂 (finding one in 2/3 years isn't going to be easy tho anyway)
The price point too. M3s are crazy expensive right now, and will stay that way I'm sure. You could put $10k into a 328 and it'd still likely be a lot less than you'd spend on an m3, at least in the states. There are some itb kits available aswell, a bit pricey between $1-2k if I remember. Theres also always the possibility of an s50 swap. Personally I'm a year into my 328. Definitely dont have the money for decent m3. Very lightly modified atm I do have cams and m50 intake manifold I'll be dropping in soon.
Hi Pamo, Love this video .It is not only informative but entertaining .
I have three slicktop E36 coupe . I love each of them .None are M3 . The 92 318is now has Ls1 with Tremec , M3 210mm LSD rebuilt with 3.63 ratio . BC coilovers , upper and lower braces ,staggered M3 wheels ,Vaders . It is always exciting to drive .
Next is a stock 97 328i individual ,manual . Modified with audio system only .
Then lastly a stock 98 318is auto,daily. Only modified with cruise control ,reverse camera and ICE .
Never having driven an M3 can't compare .
The amount of time and money spent is something i don't worry about . The building of the car brought great personal satisfaction. Just like you said in your video .
If anyone is looking for money wisely spent , buy an well maintained M3 . Although i have never driven an M3 , I am sure they are ,like you said , a great car even when totally stock .If you are looking for an outlet to express your mechanical creativity and love working on BMW E36 cars , modify.
I love the sound your M3 makes .
Thanks very much for the time and effort to make this video.
Warm regards from Aussie .
Would love to know what you would sell your 328i manual for...
greshmperformance.com.au/pages/contact-details
I've owned my 328i for a few months now, and by God every time I drive the thing it puts a smile on my face. I have to say though it for sure scares me when driving in the wet- been a few times where the back end kicks out around a corner without much pressure on the throttle at all, thankfully I can gauge where that limit is now (I'll rue saying that...) Does anyone have any advice for improving the grip on these? I see so many E36s ruined after a drift gone bad, and I want to go in the opposite direction to that. My plan is to get a decent set of HSD's to replace the lowering springs the previous owner put on them, should I be looking into poly bushes, sway bars, staggered wheels, etc too? Please forgive me if I'm talking out my arse, just would appreciate some advice from the BMW oracles!
need to now this as well. i might start with getting an open diff
yup modifying is the way im going with my 323 coupe, well maybe when the rust chase game is over! lol
Look at the test data for the stopping distances. The m3 is up there with modern performance cars.
That said stock pads are always a compromise. A track spec pad really changes things up
I am uaing 330i e46 brakes (only fronts) and CL rc6 racing pads + braded lines + race fluid. Braking is no problem, because my car only weights 1100kg (after hard core weight reduction)
My dream e36
Is Estate with 4.4l v8
6 speed manual
M3 lsd with 4.10
Have you done the clutch delay valve delete from ether cars? Considering doing it on my 328
Both of them. Get it out, I reccomend a braided clutch line too.
You're welcome to try out my s52b32 this summer when the restrictions are lifted. Could make an interesting video.
Now that's an offer 👍
I have the same user name on romraider. Send me a pm there and we can arrange something for august maybe. Im sure we can meet around the A66 somewhere
Fantastic sir. Thank you 👍
hope the missus didn't go to far with the slap on the cheek 🤔 lol
I'm looking to buy an E36 Convertible as a cruiser to enjoy the good weather. I'm an E36 enthusiast and I'm doubting getting a 328i or an M3. It doesn't have to be the fastest car, I just want it to be reliable, fun to drive, enjoyable, responsive, and comfortable. I'm taking my time to find a mint condition example to keep for many years. Would a 328i suffice for the ultimate E36 cruiser or do you think the M3 would be the way to go?
It you want the "ultimate e36 cruiser" I think you already know the answer - it has to be the m3. If you want a great, capable car a 328i will suffice 👍
@@ManSeeksCivic Thanks!
I couldn't agree with you more about the m3 in comparison to a standard e36, which is why the goal of my current build is to show the ultimate potential of a non m car, so im intentionally not using any m parts at all, to prove how fast you can go and how much fun you can have without spending all the money on an m3. (Here in Aus, e36 m3's are at about $45-50k currently 🥲)
That's a lot of spare cash to make your non m3 fly 😳
@@ManSeeksCivic i know... I just hope its worth it in the end and I'm not totally out of my mind, hahahaha 🤣 regardless, your vids have been a great help!
You will be in competition with my brother... 328i slicktop, vaders, m50 intake, riot racing throttle body, afe intake, us m3 cams, headers, m3 decat and back exhaust. Gresh M ecu.....
Nice setup, never heard of a gresh ecu - I like new things. I'll look into this.
@@ManSeeksCivic GreshM performance is owned by a guy called Matt in my home town, Brisbane in Qld Australia. He's a really good bmw tuner
Quick question for anyone that is familiar with E36 suspension! Are there any similarities in the front suspension on a 325i and M3?
They are largely the same apart from rear compliance bushes on the m3 are eccentric, m3 top mounts are different and m3 arb links to the shock not the wishbone.
@@ManSeeksCivic thank you very much!
Thanks for sharing. I have modified 328i and had some experience with m3 too. My 328i, thanks to some engine mods and weight reduction is as fast as M3 in straight line. In corners my 328i slaughters M3. M3 even with coil overs and semi slicks isn’t nearly as fast and fun to drive as lighter 328i.
But there is a big BUT! I’ve probably spent more than M3 worth of cash on my 328i and now it’s worth bugger all :(
M3 is a good daily/weekend driver that keeps its value. Lower spec cars can be easily made faster than M3, but takes a lot of time and money.
my '95 M3 has Vader seats. They definitely look cool, but are underwhelming in both the comfort and bolstering department. There's also a country mile between the back of your head and the headrest
Vader seats ar overrated massively.
is there an advantage to stroking the 328 motor rather than just installing the e46's 330 motor into your e36? if so what is that advantage?
Nope, when I did this it was slightly harder to get the M54 to work in a e36 chassis. Now there are conversion kits available that makes it easy. Also I just wanted to build the engine for the experience.
@@ManSeeksCivic ahh thank you
Boost it 😏😏
We need to know that the BMW e36 328i is gran touring car for easy and relaxed driving all though people modify them to smoke 💨 their tires and go through turns.... The M52 is a consumer friendly motor... tough but not something like an M3.... My question to this Man here is.... Can the m52 motor be a bit more powerful 230-240bhp and get better throttle response? Or this is something from a science fiction movie??? And can it be as functional as it was stock?
Yes, it can be, this one here is already 240bhp. Throttle bodies, good tuning and a little tlc can get you very near an M3 3.0. Force the air in and you'll be making the M3 look old.
@@ManSeeksCivic also the consumption does it change at your 240bhp car ??? Thanks!! Great videos!
As Newton said "for every action there must be an equal and opposite reaction" - mow powa = more fuel. She definitely has a taste for petrol 😂.
Modify a 328...keep the power and low insurance note. Not only that(and most importantly) it's what I did,and since I'm perfect in every way it just HAS to be right
Vader's and sports seats are horrible in the e36, its probably because they are so outdated, foam has probably lost its structure and support and the are Really heavy.
in my e36 I actually swapped out my seats from a BMW F20 2013 Model,
Seats are obviously far newer, miles more comfortable and way more adjustable, added bonus they weigh a fair bit less too.
down side it is not a direct bolt on, but with a little know how anything is possible.
The e36 is quite a small car compared to its modern cousins too, take a F30 bmw the Wheel Track is at least 15CM wider at the back than the E36, this defiantly helps towards to better stability, my e36 runs hardmotorsports fenders to achieve almost the same width, but you loose a little bit of the pure clean looks of the car, Handles better too.
Brakes are also very bad compared to the modern brethren, so again i did the crazy thing and bolted on M135i Callipers and Brake Booster to the e36 to give it a far better brake feel which is comparable to the modern standard.
Love the content keep it up.
modifying e36s is where it is, there soo much potential if you have the skills & time, plus the ignorance to ignore all the purest hate.
Agree, buy some racing seats, one of the best interior/ergonomics mod for e36
Well I choose the middle road 328i with s50b32 euro and 6q M3 e46 box :-D
turbo the m3, she'll love it XD
Mod
more like modify a 323i for most for all 😂
Buy a 328 and make it an M3 clone