Is the MSD HEI Ignition Module Worth the Money?
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- čas přidán 8. 08. 2023
- I’m Upgrading the 1981 Monte Carlo’s ignition with the MSD 83647! I'll walk you through how to replace the original HEI ignition module in a GM HEI distributor. Some of the benefits of the MSD ignition module include improved performance and reliability. This is going to be a game changing upgrade for keeping this car reliable. The MSD ignition module offers several benefits, including increased spark energy, improved throttle response, better fuel efficiency, and offers a built in Rev limiter. Additionally, it provides a more consistent and reliable ignition system, which can lead to smoother engine performance and reduced maintenance time. By upgrading to the MSD ignition module, you can enhance your vehicle's overall performance and reliability.
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The MSD Ignition Module is a direct bolt in that requires no real modification to your distributor. It bolts in place of the original HEI ignition module and looks identical when the distributor cap is back on.
To start out, I’ll take the distributor cap off and disconnect the wires to the coil. Next is the rotor, 2 screws and it’s off. A nice thing about the HEI is that the rotor is indexed so that it can only go on one way. Once the rotor is removed there are 3 screws, 2 hold the module and 1 holds an electrical noise filter. You may need to bump the starter to move the rotor mounting tabs out of the way to get the module out. Once the old one is out, the new one mounts using the same 2 screws with heat paste on the bottom and connects to the magnetic pickup like the original unit. The third screw holds a ground to the inside of the distributor's body.
Put the rotor and cap back on and connect the wiring up to the coil like it did with the original parts. There are 2 extra wires for this install. One is a ground that needs to go to a good ground. The other is a combination tach signal wire and rev limiter signal wire. The instructions go into how to hook up a tachometer and set the rev limiter.
The result is a more reliable ignition system that will rev better and be more reliable that the original parts!
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I had three ignition modules go out. I decided to try the msd digital ignition and it worked! I almost went old school...switching over to points. I was that close to switching...
You're not alone! The current crop of HEI modules is really disappointing. This represents a good intermediate step between what should be a good replacement and a CD ignition or other similar piece. The biggest advantage here is the simplicity. No extra wiring is required, and it just works.
I was having the issue in my gmc typhoon. I have went through about 10 icm. I'm currently getting a maxxecu conversion on my typhoon and we're going with a holley dual sync distributor to eliminate this issue once and for all. Also getting a complete rewire of the truck
Those pickup coil wires were pretty common for breakage from the vacuum advance constantly working the wires back and forth.
One has retired mechanic cheap or bad spark plug wires for burnout a module. The MSG mop module is a good choice, it has rev limiter adjustments to it.
I have has 2 MSD modules, I purchased them about 1 and 2 years after they were introduced. They both have been in many different engines, with many many miles and passes down the strip. They work with out a hitch.
I have done several back to back tests over the years, between stock modules, MSD module, and my MSD-6AL.
The MSD module is on average .011 faster than stock, and within .002/.003 of my 6AL. I installed another engine a while back and kept the module, I haven't put the 6AL back in, on my street cars.
Those are the gains I'd expect from the MSD module. I've never tried, mostly because an original would die and get replaced nowhere near a drag strip. They're a good module that has been trouble free in that Monte Carlo.
@@SnowFamilyRacing If you have a MSD 6x type of ignition box, at least carry one as a HEI spare, it could save you bacon, on the road.
I've got one with my El Camino as a back up.
@@SnowFamilyRacing My MAN...that's the ticket!!! I guess I should look at other Ignition modules, so my spark isn't in one basket. but the spark basket is working.
Maybe other will chime in on what works good for them.
By the way...make sure you use the low resistance rotor button. If your car sees regular street or highway duty, the stock rotor button WILL melt the distributor cap.
Good point, especially with a higher powered coil. MSD does have some guidance on which button to use in what application.
@@SnowFamilyRacing First time I dismissed the guidance, never again.
I subscribed and like you and your channel.
Thank you so much for your support! I really appreciate it.
Mom want's a 3/4 cam and headers.
I'd be more than happy to do that! The problem is that the classic 3/4 cam isn't big enough!
A full race may be too much for mom. But hey, go mom go.@@SnowFamilyRacing
I'm a cam specs kinda guy, I've never been into the 3/4 or whatever the trendy designation is.
Stock cam - .350 -.400 lift, 200 - 220 duration at .050. 1/2 cam - .400.500, 220 - 230. 3/4 cam - .500 - .600, 230 - 240. Full cam .600+ .240+. It's old school back in the day. Today's cams are way more detailed.@@SnowFamilyRacing
My 383 Stroker has a misfire whether on primaries or secondaries that’s really annoying. I’ve eliminated fuel or compression issues and don’t to bother you with everything I’ve done to get me to this point. It has an Accel distributor and brand new HEI rotor, cap and coil, new plugs and plug wires. Is it time to try this MSD module ?
Is it consistent on missing the same cylinder? If it's consistent then it could be something like a mag pick up. There's a chance that the module could be to blame. Realistically, I'd be looking at swapping distributors just to see what happens at this point.
Have you ever dealt with the SBC stalling only during cold start idling?
My el camino will crank instantly and start normal and it sounds to idle great but it will only idle for a min or so then instantly shut off.
I crank it again and it will idle again but stall out in a min or so again.
HOWEVER, if I do this long enough, the engine will eventually get warm and the stalling issue would be gone, I could drive the car the rest of the day without any stalling. But the next morning cold start will have the stalling issue while warming up.
I have a clear fuel filter before the carb and I can see plenty of fuel pumping into carb.
What I have replaced trying to resolve this:
-Distributer Cap and Rotor
-Ignition Control Module
-Fuel Filters
- New Quadrajet Carb
The electric choke is getting power from the Alternator.
I have been suspecting a choke issue but odd this same exact problem happens with a brand new carb..
This sounds like a tuning issue. One of a few things is happening, the choke is pulling off before the engine can handle the leaner warm mixture, or the choke is staying on too long and fouling the plugs. Things to check, what is the choke doing when it dies, is the butterfly open, is it stepping down when you bumb the throttle? The choke has steps that's supposed to stop the idle down gradually as it's driven. Is the idle speed high enough to keep running without screaming? Realistically, there's idle circuit tuning in here, idle speeds, choke adjustment in terms of how long is it staying on, and is the warm mixture correct? Is it right on or too much one way or the other? Is there a vacuum leak? I'll tune my drivers with a vacuum gage so that I can see what it's doing. The hard part is that you only really get 1 shot each day at this, and it has taken me a week or more to get my choke set the way I want it. This Monte is set up and really only needs the choke for a moment before it can start working is way down from the choke being full on.
@@SnowFamilyRacing okay I know it has to do something with the choke. The hard part is I replaced a brand new carb and the same problem with a new carb choke?
Should I have my car towed to the carb shop and let them crank it and try to mess with the mixture screws?
The best suggestion is to find some resources on carb tuning, I've made a video on carb tuning basics. The chances of a carb being right out of the box is a bit slim. I've always needed to work with them to get the choke, and idle to where I'm happy with it.
For tuning the idle circuits, use a vacuum gage and adjust them a quarter turn at a time to achieve the highest vacuum reading while keeping the rpm the same. Getting the idle circuits right will help with the choke pull off.
If the choke is coming off too soon, adjust it to stay on longer. This is why I'll literally stand there and watch what's going on so that I can tune it to where I want it to be.
@@SnowFamilyRacing I can get the choke to stay on longer and the fast idle is working but the car will still random stall during this. Its sooo Odd. After the car warms up it stops stalling.
I will get a new distributer harness as well.
It would be interesting to put a volt meter on the power coming in to the distributor and watch what's going on to see if that's the problem before throwing parts at it. At this point, you don't know where the issue truly lies and throwing parts gets expensive.
Had 1 and will not own another, blew the coil apart during a 4.5hr car drive (i drove locally never had a problem), could never get the rev limiter to work. The coil ordeal cost me a tow bill and issues at 9:00 pm. If you run one, i recommend keeping a coil, a good stock module and harness in the car as back up. I had to round this up on the road next day. Granted this was when msd was msd, maybe things got better
Honestly, this is the first catastrophic failure of this that I've heard. I've had literally hundreds of drag strip passes and many street miles with one of these.
The MSD is made in China. Do what the rest of us old timers do and stick with one authentic original "lead based" GM module for the HEI and one for the glove box. It sucks, I only watched this for info on the rev limiter but I guess that was to much work for this guy...
Not everyone has access to a dwindling stack of NOS original modules. The sad fact is that just about everything, especially electronic in naturen is made overseas.
I didn't hook up the Rev limiter for 2 reasons, I was under a time crunch, and it wasn't going to be needed on this car. It's not my car, and it never sees any real RPM unless I'm the one driving it. It's done at around 4500, and it'll hit valve float before it goes high enough to hurt anything. The instructions are pretty clear about how to set it up.
Fixing to try this method, tomorrow morning if the weather permits. Damn misfires driving me crazy.
Before I swapped to a MSD box in my El Camino, I ran the MSD module and it performed great. I won a lot of events and a couple track championships with that ignition. After 2 failures in a week, I put that in that Monte, which belongs to my mom, and it's been solid ever since.
@@SnowFamilyRacing that's some valuable information man! You are a great contribution to the gearheads out here lost in the sauce. Thank you 🙏
That's one of my goals, to bring this information to you, and to my audience in a way that's easy to understand. I also want to keep this info alive. That way, we can keep these cars alive! I'm 36, I learned from my dad and my Auto Shop teacher, who was a dealer tech in the 80's. I have info and a way to get it out in the world where it can be found.
@@SnowFamilyRacing awesome, your blessed! I subbed in !!!!
@@SnowFamilyRacing No luck for me today. Monte still stalls in drive or reverse. Starter makes noise as well. I put a AC delco Hei in there. No dice. Could it be the whole dang shaft being fowled?
Can you use an MSD ignition box with that module?
No need. The module would get removed and the box would use the magnetic pickup in the distributor.
@@SnowFamilyRacing did not know that thanks
That MSD module needs some conformal coating, a Common coating to protect from environmental elements, missing that, is is considered sub standard.....Is it there or no ???
The module is under the cap, so it's is pretty well protected. It's got a clear coat on it, it should not be an issue.