Talking Race to World First w/Echo Gingi
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
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Huge shoutout to Gingi, make sure you go check his stuff out.
/ gingitv
Hey guys! After a recent MDI watch party Gingi and I very organically ended up having a really long talk about the Current State of Race to World First and the differences in our Guilds. Please make sure to keep a respectful and civil tone in the comments. Hope you enjoy.
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Introduction: 0:00
The "Late Start" (Raid Schedules): 1:20
Raid Tuning & Splits: 9:58
Different Fight Mindsets: 24:30
What Happened on Jailer: 26:34
Ups & Downs of this Event: 29:25
What Does Max do in Liquid: 31:05
Reflecting on Past Races: 33:58
Frustrations with Weakauras: 45:00
Players Personal Performance: 49:09
Attitude Change when Falling Behind: 52:06
Tilting in Sepulcher (Anduin Drama): 54:52
Dealing with Hate: 1:10:15
Fighting Complacency (21st man): 1:21:53
What Makes a Good Raid Leader: 1:28:04
Liquid's EU Players: 1:33:33
Joking Around Mid Pull: 1:37:07
The Headstart: 1:44:50
Raid Tuning (Again): 1:47:45
Dealing with Viewers: 1:55:20
Winning vs Losing: 1:58:17
Raid Tuning (Again): 2:00:40
Why There's A Big Gap From Liquid & Echo to All Other Guilds: 2:13:05
Raid Sizes (20 vs 10 man): 2:14:04
Echo's Tanking Situation (Naowh): 2:17:40
The Insane Grind Required For the RWF: 2:21:30
Outro: 2:26:34
#maximum #liquidmaximum - Hry
Max and Gingi chatting is like that buff dude handshake meme
max is the teddy bear soft guy tho - not an insult
How do you not know that's from Predator? 😂
@@Feldsomethinfeels wrong, like "trenchcoat and sunglasses bullet evading dude"
@@ergodoodle1951 How do you not know that's Quicksilver in Xmen: Days of Future Past?
@@zym6687 I associate that with Terminator. Child of the 80s syndrome 🤣
Holy shit that was amazing. Gingi and Max picking each others brains is a fascinating thing to listen to. Amazing insights from both of them too. SSS tier content, need more of this
Can I just say that the editor did a great fricking job on this video.
Agreed. Max mentioned his editor is getting pretty much everything earned from CZcams because he's so good & said it's totally worth it to just break even while knowing these videos will be his highlight reel of these years of his career.
@@dustybookshelves2948 that is really great! I watch Max exclusively on CZcams, and I just want more max stuff. :P
Fronk is the man
Say it louder for the people in the back!!
if only his editor put as much effort into his own channel...that channel is already a gold mine
I'm a big fan of the editing on this one.
so good with the context popups
Wow, Gingi came with serious notes
One of the best podcasts formats I've listened into for a while. Having Max and Gingi have a back and forth asking very good questions was really really good! Would love more of this content if possible! Maybe hard to replicate as this came of as so authentic but god dayum 2hrs flew by like 20mins
Awesome content, so cool to hear this high level discussion. Amazing editing - haven't been paying attention to WoW over all these years, so great to see the fights as they discuss them.
This was awesome, thank so much for having this chat and putting it out there. I'm just AOTC myself and mid-level M+ so I'll never play at this level, and its super interesting learning about the behind-the-scenes work, the minutiae of the race and prog, and the guild dynamics. Please do more of these, very good content.
you can really tell how much respect they both have for each other
super cool to see
If one of the 2 groups didnt excist. The world first race would be boring. So less money to make
this whole convo was so good, really interesting to hear from both perspectives. Also editing was spot on, as always
just look at GIngi when Max said "it was because of you" lmao. the sheer joy of "i got that guy" xD
Awesome edit, great video all together. Always interesting listening in to the minds behind these races. Thanks for sharing :)
I really like the long form content because it gives me something to listen to at work. I remember you discussing your content being long form on steam and just letting you know the algorithm is whack and I appreciate this kind of content.
Love when people can get along and just have a good talk. thanks Max and Gingi.
Cus of the money they make
Really nice listening to you. That was some great content and discussion with the authentic curiosity that both of you have shown. Kepp it up!
Probs to the editor really solid work including ref. video's stats and information during the topics of discussion made it very enjoyable to follow along!
I think the EU directness may also be a language thing, it's hard to inject nuance, subtlety, intonation into your speech when you're speaking a second language to someone else speaking a second language, so it becomes very matter-of-fact. I do think there's some level of cultural directness compared to NA, but I would say the language thing may have a greater impact.
Very much so. It's really hard to tip-toe around issues in your second or third language, especially when it's under pressure and time constraints (mid pull for example). And even if you CAN do it, it might get totally lost on someone not as fluent. There might also be non-language specific cultural differences that make nuanced communication complicated when you're in a raid with people from like 10 different countries.
I also think max has a tendency to over-explain things, i like the dude, but he also like hearing himself :D
@@MorialaCrom THIS
nah, my guild, 1 language, is still direct af, the 2nd language is not a thing thst impact that, its just that we dont take it personal
@@zante2542 shut it, dumdum.
Great video/ podcast. Love how honest it all was and love watching the co-stream with these 4 in general
This really needs to be done after every teir. You guys went from hey this wasnt cool to have an basic understanding of eachothers feeling this was by far one of the best videos ive seen about echo and liquid
This was amazing I don’t usually sit and listen to ppl talk I love watching ppl actually do something but it go thoroughly enjoyed listening to gingi and max talk about the raids thank you
This was such a great video, just two elite players shooting the shit, great variety of topics covered. I think everyone would love more of these kind of discussions in the future!
More of this! Much love to both teams. I am originally an EU fan me living in EU but I love so much both teams and it's so cool to watch you compete I always cannot decide who I want to win, I rather want you guys to be happy!
More content like this please (-: Love to see Echo and Liquid collaborate
Great convo. Glad it happened. Hopefully more of these can happen in the future, but it makes sense that it's very dependent on vibes.
This was one of the most interesting conversations I’ve ever listened to about this game, really appreciated the candid back and forth between you guys
This video rules. Y’all should definitely do more stuff like this between tiers
This is the good shit, props to both of you guys and to the editors as well, this video was clean.
Would love to see more stuff like this. Fun to stuff from both you ang Gingis perspective
Great video max, listened to the first 50 minutes will finish tomorrow after sleep :)!
This was very very interesting watch, Anduin drama was a fun part. So funny how many people thought these two guilds was mad rivals and hated eachother
Nobody thought they hated each other 🤣
@@lupo6362 The RFW guilds in general, yes
Dude, this is so fckin good. If you ever have topics to discuss in the future, from yalls pov. Please do it like this.
Greatest editing, even with urban dictionary bit, very interesting and informative.
Editing is actually insanely good!
Dang that a fantastic listen, thanks for uploading it
Insane info input. Would love to hear a Podcast.
I haven't even started to watch, but knowing you Maximum; and him, by following both on twitch, this "disclaimer" at the start is great and announces a great video. I already clicked it because I thought it was cool and you yet announce a great talk. Back to the video for me :D
In the end: top tier editing to a great talk.
thank you sharing this. from EU but fan of both guilds! :)
Superb editing, great video.
Interesting & insightful convo
Literally the best video from these creators!
Good stuff right there, i cleaned my entire apartment while listening. Didnt even notice :D
some good question from mr, gongi, love the vibe between max and him
i fully appreciated the mdi co streams, with gingi, max, dorki and growl.
Love it how chat completely shits on the discussion and is hyper focussed on doggo sleeping =D
absolutely loved this
Ty for uploading. Good shit
There should be an event after every RWF where Echo and Liquid discuss their experiences with the race! I'd love that.
Max and RogerBrown used to have a discussion but they don't do it anymore
@@beastrace81 Did they have a falling out? I've been wondering about this.
cheers to yall for chatting
This is super interesting and really intense. Friendly, civil, but intense.
Wonderful content
amazing podcast
Great talk!
Max I think you are the most wholesome dude I think I’ve ever watched on YT. I think you’re super funny and want to be more like you and Gingi
Great chat!
Listening to these two chatshit about raids and world first races...top tier content.. we need more ❤
The streets were wrong 😢
This is what it’s all about right here love to see it!
Watched it all, worth it!
Actual banger video.
This was great should do this more
This was so freaking interesting.
Great contend 👍🏻
loved this video so much holy shit
2:14:05 Played back in MoP and 10 + 25man was great for so many players, and while it was impossible to balance completely, it was the reason I was able to clear Heroic on my main and 2 alts, since I didnt have to do 25man for all three characters. And both 10 and 25man was superfun.
Big respect to Max for owning his personal shit.
This is super interesting from an outside perspective but you're 100% nutso if you don't think this is going to give one side more advantage than the other to pick each other's brains like this
8:56 I love the idea of being able to play with people from all regions. Latency issues might be a problem, but if that could be solved, it would be amazing for the game.
i mean people do that on pservers with 0 issues already si u think its 100% doable\
I love both guild, whether it be their players or RL or performances. I don't get why people will chose one side and bully the other, I just cheer for both, and get excited for whoever wins and sad for whoever lost.
Max is an incredible person that did so much for the wow community, and he doesn't deserve anything he got shit on for absolutly no reason.
From an EU player.
A conversation between Scripe and Max! Imagine that! I would love it and watch a 24h video of it!
"Light meme-ing" is the sweet spot.
I like this kinda talking great
The part where Max was talking about "if a new player comes in and didn't soak the mechanic" and how he wanted "the next player to say 'That was my bad'" is HUGE! Not just in WoW raiding, but in the workplace! It's not about holding a person accountable, it's a team effort so the team has to be accountable.
pog
This post raid table talk should be more of a thing every raid teir, its nice to listen to how people think.
Gogo same time zone! :P Echo in America: Gingi's Paradise
Loved this
Feels like Max needs to leave space for Gingi to respond in between his 5 minute rants though lmao
Bloke is just out here cranking a monologue.
Nice
What a fucking banger of a video
This is great stuff. Feel like a lot of this stuff applies to more than just WoW. Just great advice of being a leader or what it takes to be the best at anything really.
My guildees need to learn from the whole "admit to mistakes so we don't have to go searching through logs" that would just be so nice if we could fix that lol. Lots of egos out there though. Hard problem to solve in a lower level guild while keeping raid moral high imo
you know its a good wow session when you have sweaty gooch
26:43 lmfao mr edit man bro making me wake up my neighbours
“Word on the street is that there’s a heroic week.” The word was wrong
God damn I wish the street were right
@@LimitMaximum Max belongs to the streets, confirmed
talking with Gingi....and Jak...and Xyro...and Dorki...and more!
This is reminiscent of the EN Legion start of the xpac, but obviously in the opposite direction. I think they were so worried about having an EN repeat after implementing a new system that they went so far in the other direction to try and prevent it, resulting in multiple bosses needing massive nerfs. They implemented tier and an entirely new talent system in this patch on top of abandoning borrowed power which could server as a way of psuedo-nerfing content each week with player progression.
Also I think going in the opposite direction with all content being released at once and having two weeks of normal/heroic would be banger. Even raiding in a mid-tier guild I hate either raiding an extra day just to have enough time to do N/H first two weeks or saccing mythic prog time to do it. It would also allow splits to happen before RWF and could help the event be more hype. It might also help with tuning if Blizzard can assume RWF guilds are heading into the raid with full heroic gear.
No interrupting Gingi & All would be perfect
The Gingi bit was funny, even more so on Growl's chat
Very interesting and entertaining hearing the talk between the two of you. It's great seeing the mutual respect between two fierce competitors. Also great editing and just an overall amazing video.
One thing about the "16h head-start". I understand that it sucks for Limit/Liquid to always have to feel like a win from them will be questioned because of that - especially if the two guilds kill the end boss in quick succession. A win is a win, and it's not Liquid's fault that there is no global release. However, it's just intellectually dishonest to deny that the head-start is an advantage and it always bothers me hearing Max - who is a very logical and intelligent person - try to come up with different explanations for why it isn't an advantage.
Also, when Liquid has won it hasn't been because of the 16h head start so far. But a few times when Echo has won, it's been *in spite* of them being disadvantaged.
I think the take is that it has not mattered when we won, or has not impacted the outcome of the race yet, that part you got right. Also pointing out it certainly could impact it especially around resets. I think the other part that you are missing is that I have never stated it does not matter, it’s just way way way less than the common hater makes it out to be.
An example would be let’s say we start exactly 16 hours ahead of echo, we kill the boss within hours of each other. The assumption that we actually had 16 hours of an advantage is insane it depends on the raid but the only logical argument would be around a few hours give or take, the conventional argument is you would count down from 16 hours after we kill it.
If you know nothing about the raids then a headstart sounds like an advantage. Any raider that has played WoW in the last few years knows the headstart has NEVER been an advantage with how bugging/overtuned bosses are. You are beta testing for other people.
Honestly the 24 hour headstart will be something that will never not be brought up. Mentally if you look at a race where 1 persons starts sooner it will always look bad. And it is bad but Blizzard just does not want to do a global launch.
I don't know why Gingi doesn't mention that Echo delayed their reclear in CN because Limit was close to the kill. If they had recleared right away then they would definitely have killed Sire D within 16 hours of Limit (probably within 4-5 hours if they went full steam ahead). So what Max describes at 1:45:16 practically did happen during CN since Echo didn't have time to reclear the raid and progress Sire D because Limit was so close to the kill right after the reset. I'm not saying Echo would have won CN with global release because again there's a lot of other factors to include (nerf times etc.) but I still think this is a valid point. Limit did kill Sire D before Echo effectively had their reset.
I agree 100%, but that's just NA tunnel vision, he keeps talking about it not being 16 hours but 12 then 8 hours maintenance so it leave 4 hours head start. But nobody is talking about WHEN exactly EU guilds start raiding, it can be 4 hours from then so it's just an 8 hours difference because of sleep.
I think that's the point Gingi was making/trying to make, the CN raid was won during a reclear of Echo. Take it as you want. but to me that means they won because of an earlyer reset just like max said.
The cope is insane. They had 10+ hours of their server being “available” to play when we didn’t. That resulted in more progression time the previous week before they started reclearing and starting their reclear hours before we were able to. Look man if they kill it within a few hours of us in that raid I’ll give them gg, it didn’t happen and you all wonder why I “talk down” the time advantage so much. Because your fanbase will do literally anything to say they didn’t lose because of not understanding how the release difference even affects the guilds. I will never understand why so many people in this world confidently have opinions on things they are not very experienced in. Easily the thing I dislike the most about the race.
@@LimitMaximum You won and they lost. Nothing to say about that.
All I'm saying is that Echo would have killed Sire D faster than they did if they had recleared right after the reset instead of waiting. Probably within 5 hours of your kill.
Does that mean Echo would have deserved to win if they had done that? No not necessarily. Because as you say there are a lot of other factors than the release time such as boss nerfs and server downtime.
But I still think the delayed reclear is a valid point to include when talking about Castle Nathria.
Max#S look turned giga hipster with those cute glasses and stuff! I love it
Hey, FF player here love your content dude I know a lot of the FF community was so fucking cringe when you played but I enjoyed you and that group anyway just wanted to say you at least have one FF players who enjoyed you in that time.
same here
Great interview! As an avid viewer of Liquid's and Echo's Race to World First events, it's always great to get more inside information on the dynamics between guilds. Great respect! However, I also have a somewhat controversial opinion on your journey and experience in FFXIV.
As someone familiar with raiding in Final Fantasy at the highest level, and as a player long before the "great exodus" from WoW during Shadowlands, there is a perspective on the changes and toxicity in the community that manifested itself right at your time in the game. Nearly all content creators were trying out the game, whether for story or raids. From a WoW player's perspective, the future of the game actually looked pretty bleak at the time. So FFXIV had a number of "refugees" in the game who were playing the game primarily because it wasn't WoW.
This brought out two types of people. On one side, the players who felt that FFXIV was being overrun by the menatality of WoW and ruining the differences that are currently enjoyed (and yes, the "no add-on" policy is part of that enjoyment). On the other hand, there are disgruntled WoW players who try to cast FFXIV in a particularly negative light by masquerading as FFXIV players just to bitch about certain content creators. "Why is that?" you may ask. Because they are seen as "traitors to WoW" or want to spoil the fun for streamers, thinking that they will eventually return when they learn how toxic FFXIV really is. One such person was caught in Asmongold's stream a few weeks ago.
So yeah, your experience was a bad one. I also attribute that in part to the WoW community.
Max and gingi talking about being human and the chat's just like: hehe.. Doggo dream go brr
Does anyone else have huge audio volume swings between Max and Gingi at least? I gotta crank the volume to hear gingi and turn down when max comes on. I find this in a number of videos where everyone calls in on discord
Max looking like Magni with Glasses :D
I have been looking for some time Can you tell me what the Addon is that shows the player names in all your videos?
this was like 4 hours of therapy
max did for me more than my dad in the last 5 years😅
srsly they don't even need HealthyGamerGG to mediate :)
You can tell Gingi is one of those dudes who harps on the 'head start' a lot by how he reacts to Max's answers about it lol.
I hope so much they start a global release, because the bitching about the 'head start' is so exhausting as someone who just wants to watch crazy good raiders run crazy hard content.
Audio is so quiet for some reason. Awesome talk. I just had to rewind so many times to catch what they said.
Imo, if they are going to make a big change that to a boss. They should lock the raid for 24hours, to give racers time to prep, and then release. Would make for an Actual crazy pull-to-pull race.
If you are annoyed by obnoxious people in chat, please increase the number of moderators you have. It doesn't only bug you, it also bugs all of us who are peacefully watching, enjoying the content, rooting for Liquid, for Echo, for both, for individual players, or none of the above, and just trying to have a good time. I feel that all in all we are a sane majority and would hope that our support means more to you than a few weirdos venting.
i used to work nights rwf was sweet i could watch method in the day and liquid at night but yeah chat gets fucked at times