The reason loftlegs are used is that there needs to be airflow across the insulation or you can end up with condensation on the joists. Also the insulation only works properly if it is loose. Also by putting more joists in you are adding quite a bit of weight to the loft. By all means DYOR but you get a much better loft with loftlegs in my opinion, a big advantage of them is the are off the ground so it is a lot easier to deal with your stuff once they are in.
Loft legs are awful and don't spread the load. It makes a weak wobbly floor, which can cause cracks in the plaster board and screw filler to pop. I've had many jobs removing loft legs and using my method instead. My method makes a solid loft floor and strengthens the joists. Each joist is now connected together the floor is now part of the structure adding strength and stability. The weight of the cls is not an issue, cls is very light weight. I agree with you about the air flow I now leave gaps at regular intervals on layers 1 and 2, the floor is just as strong and connected.
I didn't think joists would be strong enough on their own to take all the weight of the timber, flooring and then whatever your putting up there with people walking on it. I thought you needed to put the extra timber on joist hangars from the walls with supports under supporting walls in the middle if it has them, keeping them elevating above ceiling joists even after they deflect.. Then lay the boards on top of the new timbers.
@@roulettered56it's normally 25kg per sq meter static load (dynamic load is higher but that is temporary mass that moves around, not evenly spread everywhere like static)
It's plenty strong. Never had any issues with my way of doing it. Ive been doing lofts like this for over 5 years now. The weight is spread out, plus there are walls underneath I know they're not load bearing but still helps.
Thanks Mark, will definitely do more detailed vids in the future. Struggle to find the time to do what I do already. I do enjoy making videos tho so will be making more and Hopefully much better too.
I liked the clear and easy instructions but I had two questions - What happens if you need to access some wires in order to do electrical work, i.e. installing new ceiling fan or heat lamp in bathroom how do you do that with all the boards in the way - secondly what material did you use for the boards? Was it OSB or something else? Thanks
So the ceilings underneath are supporting the entire weight? So quick question here. Wouldn’t be better to raise it a little bit so the weight of the boards plus whatever load you put on it will be on the supporting walls underneath?
great job. query: you have put back the removed insulation covering the existing joists. is it ok? Does it have enough ventilation? I want to add another layer of insulation. we got only one layer
This is very expensive and unnecessary in wood. You can make your own very stable and low cost loft legs. Cut an 8” length of 3x2 and screw a 6” length to it and a 4” length to that, gives a pyramid of 9” tall, from just 18” of wood. Make enough of these to be spaced along the top of the joists every 20”. Then sit full length 3x2 rails along the tops. This will straddle 12” of insulation above the joists and provides plenty of ventilation at half the cost. Edit: I will add in fairness, the method in the video is very quick if you don’t mind spending the small fortune in 3x2, but he should still have allowed some gaps for airflow across the joist runs.
So am I right in saying you lay 3x2 perpendicular to the existing joists. And you lay three on top of one another effectively making 9x2? I assume they're all secured with 4 maybe 5 inch screws?
I just bought the 3x2 god. There's a lot of weight in them. Hopefully that weight will be OK up in attic. Plus I got 4" screws will they be long enough
Hi, I’m sending the stilts back and doing this. What did you mean by having a gap at intervals? And also I have green floor boards 18mm, would OSB loft boards be batter?
Good video, why do you use 3x2 timbers instead of larger ones, or are you adding strength by laying them overlap/brick style? Also you chose not to box in around the loft hatch was this because of electrics?
I’m gonna have ago after watching you Quick question our loft insolation is not as thick as that it was built in the 60s Do you lay new over the top of the old to build it up to guild lines Many thanks
MY attic is a good size room , with clear space. is this way safe enough to put down and say put an office up there, just a desk and computer (obviously insulating and plasterboarding the roof) is this safe enough for that ?
Loved that video mate. Very informative. I spend my life working in lofts as a TV aerial installer and often get asked to do this. What size boards are those and are they chipboard? PS I have subscribed too 👍
Ive just been quoted £1600 just to put boards down in my loft WTF !!???? 220 square feet! Is this normal!???? Trying to get other companies out for more quotes but getting them out is a NIGHTMARE in itself!!! 1600 quid just to put some junk in the loft FFS !!!!?? Whats going ON !???
Without seeing the job its hard to say, but for just the boarding with no insulation or ladder fitted I would estimate the job to be between £900 - £1300. If its a simple job like the one in my video you're looking at around £500 in materials and one days labour for 2 men £400 if its going around the trusses and into the eaves then could take 1.5 - 2 days, hence the higher price.
20m² is a big space, and if its a limited company and they're charging vat and making a small profit on top of everything else then it is about right. If its a sole trader like me then yes over charging I'd say. But again hard to say as I've not seen the job. If you email me pics I can give you a better idea of costs. carpentrybnm@gmail.com
Quick question, are you laying your 2.5 x 1.5 with the 2.5 side flat on the joints? Making it 4.5 deep of 1.5 flat making it 7.5 deep if that makes sense?
Hey, thanks so much for this very helpful video. I didn't quite follow this point about laying the 2.5 on it's side. In the video it looks as though you simply stack each of the pieces on top of each other on the narrow sides. Can I also confirm that you're using "2.5 x 1.5" and "3x2" interchangeably here? Are you using C16 or C24 timber? Thanks once again @@BNMCarpentry
I’m looking to board my loft with some timber (4x2) but that’ll struggle to cover my insulation so I’d have no gap between boards and insulation. I thought about using larger timbers but am concerned about the extra weight and was advised against this. What’s your opinion on this as the expert?
Just do what I do in the video bud. 3x layers of 3x2 and stagger the timbers. Or if you're worried about weight you can make small frames instead and screw those down.
@@BNMCarpentryloft legs are cheap plastic shit, I agree, what thickness insulation did this loft have? Also what air gap did you leave between the boards and top layer of insulation, mines a traditional roof so I have a lot more room in it but I'm trying to get the bare minimum on air gap for the insulation before I counter batten and board
600mm spacing… metric. 3x2… imperial? They don’t look like 3”x 2”. Could that be metric too? 30mm x 20mm? If imperial, 3 high is 9” If metric, 90mm high… less than 4”. And lighter. Which is it?
Try to aim for an an inch minimum. If your loft has good ventilation then it matters less, if your loft suffers with condensation then I wouldn't attempt this until that's sorted.
Not at all. But It's cheaper to use 3x2s and the first layer you can screw straight through the top in to the joist with a 100mm screw so you get a solid fix. Also less risk of the timber warping when it's 3 separate layers. 👍
@@BNMCarpentry Thanks it makes sense. Unfortunately I checked my loft and the trusses are only 7 cm high so cant even fit the first layer of insulation in there before screwing the timber perpendicular...
Did you actually watch the video before being critical? Great video and exactly what I'm going to do. Doing this means when you are walking around up there, the weight is distributed across several trusses. Not achieved with crappy loft legs. 🙂
They can. If you only have a base layer of insulation between the joists, even then I wouldn't recommend it as there are straps and cables in the way and you ideally want a slight air gap between insulation and boards. Which you won't get if you board straight on top of joists/ chords. Most houses have more than a base layer of insulation so it's impossible to lay on joists/ chords with removing the top layer of insulation. Fitting the boards to a raised floor makes the job 10x easier than fitting to existing joists, even if a loft had no insulation, no brackets or cables in the way I'd still do it.
Please support BNM Carpentry by liking the video, subscribing and you can even buy me buy me a cuppa!
www.buymeacoffee.com/bnmcarpentry
Thanks Ben
Thank you for posting this, gave me the courage to DIY it.
Nice one Nick 👍
How did it go?
I love the look of this & really didn’t want to lose space by adding the legs
Great video, will use this method instead of loft legs
It's much better 👍
The reason loftlegs are used is that there needs to be airflow across the insulation or you can end up with condensation on the joists. Also the insulation only works properly if it is loose. Also by putting more joists in you are adding quite a bit of weight to the loft. By all means DYOR but you get a much better loft with loftlegs in my opinion, a big advantage of them is the are off the ground so it is a lot easier to deal with your stuff once they are in.
Loft legs are awful and don't spread the load. It makes a weak wobbly floor, which can cause cracks in the plaster board and screw filler to pop. I've had many jobs removing loft legs and using my method instead.
My method makes a solid loft floor and strengthens the joists. Each joist is now connected together the floor is now part of the structure adding strength and stability.
The weight of the cls is not an issue, cls is very light weight.
I agree with you about the air flow I now leave gaps at regular intervals on layers 1 and 2, the floor is just as strong and connected.
@@BNMCarpentry perfect, I will use your advice when doing my attic this year!
@@BNMCarpentrywhen you say you leave gaps at regular intervals, do you leave gaps in the 3x2 or the insulation? I’m looking at DIY’ing it
That was a great question! I've never heard of loft legs and been asked to do a flooring job. Wondering about cables etc!! Now I know. Cheers bud!!
What do you mean by leave air gaps at regular intervals?
I didn't think joists would be strong enough on their own to take all the weight of the timber, flooring and then whatever your putting up there with people walking on it. I thought you needed to put the extra timber on joist hangars from the walls with supports under supporting walls in the middle if it has them, keeping them elevating above ceiling joists even after they deflect.. Then lay the boards on top of the new timbers.
Interesting. Not sure how much weight original Joist can take.
@@roulettered56it's normally 25kg per sq meter static load (dynamic load is higher but that is temporary mass that moves around, not evenly spread everywhere like static)
It's plenty strong. Never had any issues with my way of doing it. Ive been doing lofts like this for over 5 years now.
The weight is spread out, plus there are walls underneath I know they're not load bearing but still helps.
@BNMCarpentry I want to do this to make a gaming corner section for elsedest lad in house . Would It be strong enough?
Love your work i wished you wld do more in-depth vids, so crack on and help us viewers out 😃
Thanks Mark, will definitely do more detailed vids in the future. Struggle to find the time to do what I do already.
I do enjoy making videos tho so will be making more and Hopefully much better too.
I liked the clear and easy instructions but I had two questions
- What happens if you need to access some wires in order to do electrical work, i.e. installing new ceiling fan or heat lamp in bathroom how do you do that with all the boards in the way
- secondly what material did you use for the boards? Was it OSB or something else?
Thanks
So the ceilings underneath are supporting the entire weight? So quick question here. Wouldn’t be better to raise it a little bit so the weight of the boards plus whatever load you put on it will be on the supporting walls underneath?
Wonderful work. Could share the links of item you used to build.
It will help us to buy a correct items.
Thank you in advance
great job. query: you have put back the removed insulation covering the existing joists. is it ok? Does it have enough ventilation? I want to add another layer of insulation. we got only one layer
Any specific wood in particular? Or does it need to be pressure treated timber?
This is very expensive and unnecessary in wood. You can make your own very stable and low cost loft legs. Cut an 8” length of 3x2 and screw a 6” length to it and a 4” length to that, gives a pyramid of 9” tall, from just 18” of wood. Make enough of these to be spaced along the top of the joists every 20”. Then sit full length 3x2 rails along the tops. This will straddle 12” of insulation above the joists and provides plenty of ventilation at half the cost. Edit: I will add in fairness, the method in the video is very quick if you don’t mind spending the small fortune in 3x2, but he should still have allowed some gaps for airflow across the joist runs.
If you were asked to do this in a loft with 400mm of insulation, what would you do?
Hey the 3x2s did you stack them on top of each other and what screws size did you use
Did you leave the 4 joist long 1st 3x2 over hanging between joists or do you butt them up on half a joist each and screw down?
So am I right in saying you lay 3x2 perpendicular to the existing joists. And you lay three on top of one another effectively making 9x2? I assume they're all secured with 4 maybe 5 inch screws?
Correct
Nice job !!
Thanks mate 👍
Hi,but if the insulation is arround 30cm use 3 layers of 4×2 timber?Thank you
Base layer between the joists is 100mm top layer is 200mm. = 300 use 3 layers of 3x2 thankyou 😊
Ehat size of screws did you use? Great camera angle
Does it matter which way you install the loft boards?
I just bought the 3x2 god. There's a lot of weight in them. Hopefully that weight will be OK up in attic. Plus I got 4" screws will they be long enough
I'd like to do this except ductwork is along the floor.
Hi, I’m sending the stilts back and doing this. What did you mean by having a gap at intervals? And also I have green floor boards 18mm, would OSB loft boards be batter?
What do you use to connect the 3x2 together ?
100mm screws
Why not just screw the boards directly to the joists?
Good video, why do you use 3x2 timbers instead of larger ones, or are you adding strength by laying them overlap/brick style? Also you chose not to box in around the loft hatch was this because of electrics?
Hi Richard. Did u get an answer for why to use 3x2s and not larger ones??
I’m gonna have ago after watching you
Quick question our loft insolation is not as thick as that it was built in the 60s
Do you lay new over the top of the old to build it up to guild lines
Many thanks
Nice one Matthew, 👍 yeah just lay a new layer over the old. Key is to make sure there will be enough air flow under the boards.
Thanks Ben
Brilliant thank you ben
Hi, what did you use to secure three layers together?
MY attic is a good size room , with clear space. is this way safe enough to put down and say put an office up there, just a desk and computer (obviously insulating and plasterboarding the roof) is this safe enough for that ?
Yes absolutely 👍
@@BNMCarpentry awesome thank you
Can I get rid of any wooden beams to create more space
NO! They're there for a reason.
What material are the boards and what dimensions?
Chipboard flooring. 2400 x 600mm 👍
Loved that video mate. Very informative. I spend my life working in lofts as a TV aerial installer and often get asked to do this. What size boards are those and are they chipboard? PS I have subscribed too 👍
18mm chipboard 2400 x 600
How much did the job cost in total? Cheers
Ive just been quoted £1600 just to put boards down in my loft
WTF !!????
220 square feet!
Is this normal!????
Trying to get other companies out for more quotes but getting them out is a NIGHTMARE in itself!!!
1600 quid just to put some junk in the loft FFS !!!!?? Whats going ON !???
Without seeing the job its hard to say, but for just the boarding with no insulation or ladder fitted I would estimate the job to be between £900 - £1300.
If its a simple job like the one in my video you're looking at around £500 in materials and one days labour for 2 men £400 if its going around the trusses and into the eaves then could take 1.5 - 2 days, hence the higher price.
@@benmakepeace5759 thanks mate. So 1700 is a bit high isnt it?
Its not a BIG space. Just an average size space
20m² is a big space, and if its a limited company and they're charging vat and making a small profit on top of everything else then it is about right. If its a sole trader like me then yes over charging I'd say. But again hard to say as I've not seen the job.
If you email me pics I can give you a better idea of costs.
carpentrybnm@gmail.com
Quick question, are you laying your 2.5 x 1.5 with the 2.5 side flat on the joints? Making it 4.5 deep of 1.5 flat making it 7.5 deep if that makes sense?
1.5 flat 7.5 deep 👍
Perfect. Gives enough room then for 170mm insulation with a slight gap to the board. Thanks for the video, glad I found it 👌🏻
Hey, thanks so much for this very helpful video. I didn't quite follow this point about laying the 2.5 on it's side. In the video it looks as though you simply stack each of the pieces on top of each other on the narrow sides. Can I also confirm that you're using "2.5 x 1.5" and "3x2" interchangeably here? Are you using C16 or C24 timber? Thanks once again @@BNMCarpentry
Yes 1.5 x 2.5, and c16. No need for c24. You're welcome 👍
So if your using 3x2 do you stack them 2inch high x 3inch wide or the other way around? Thanks.
I’m looking to board my loft with some timber (4x2) but that’ll struggle to cover my insulation so I’d have no gap between boards and insulation. I thought about using larger timbers but am concerned about the extra weight and was advised against this. What’s your opinion on this as the expert?
Just do what I do in the video bud. 3x layers of 3x2 and stagger the timbers. Or if you're worried about weight you can make small frames instead and screw those down.
Loft legs would give you the height to clear your insulation and are light enough not to cause weight issues.
Loft legs come with many other issues I don't like them at all. I've had a few jobs where I've been asked to remove them in favour of my method.
@@BNMCarpentryloft legs are cheap plastic shit, I agree, what thickness insulation did this loft have? Also what air gap did you leave between the boards and top layer of insulation, mines a traditional roof so I have a lot more room in it but I'm trying to get the bare minimum on air gap for the insulation before I counter batten and board
Ledger board each side held in by resin anchor fixing raised 270mm using joists hangers
600mm spacing… metric. 3x2… imperial? They don’t look like 3”x 2”. Could that be metric too? 30mm x 20mm?
If imperial, 3 high is 9”
If metric, 90mm high… less than 4”. And lighter.
Which is it?
Do I need to leave a gap between the installation and the board for air flow please
Yes
@@BNMCarpentryhow big of a gap?
What size boards did you use? Did you have to cut them down at all to get them to lay the way you did. Roughly the cost of raw material?
Tongue and groove Chipboard Loft Panels - 320 x 1220mm - Pack of 3 £15.
Great work, how much of a gap between the top of the insulation and the bottom of the new board? Does it matter?
Try to aim for an an inch minimum. If your loft has good ventilation then it matters less, if your loft suffers with condensation then I wouldn't attempt this until that's sorted.
would it be weaker to fit 8x2 instead of 3 layers of 3x2?
Not at all. But It's cheaper to use 3x2s and the first layer you can screw straight through the top in to the joist with a 100mm screw so you get a solid fix.
Also less risk of the timber warping when it's 3 separate layers. 👍
@@BNMCarpentry Thanks it makes sense. Unfortunately I checked my loft and the trusses are only 7 cm high so cant even fit the first layer of insulation in there before screwing the timber perpendicular...
Yes you can it will be fine with a 100mm base layer. Is there any insulation now?
@@BNMCarpentry yes there is supposedly 400 mm in few different layers
@@BNMCarpentry What measurements do you mean by 3by2?
Hi guys, amazing videp, got quoted £1500 for an area about same size as this video so will do it myself!
What size screws did you use?
100mm for timbers and 50mm for the boards.
Was that price just for boarding or a ladder too?
@@BNMCarpentry just boarding mate!!
Is this a new house? Im planning to do this way will it be stronger base?
Yes and yes
How much would this cost
How many 3x2 are stacked on top of each other ?
HE said 3. Almost 9" high. But he mentioned joist offsets at 600mm so is his 3x3 actually 30cm x 20cm... 4" high?
Can you hit me with material amounts and cost please 🎉
After you've finished boarding you've still removed a hell of a lot of insulation. Do you attach to the roof?
I haven't removed any insulation bud, it's very clear in the video.
@@BNMCarpentry"Step 1: Remove all insulation". You left the base layer but that's not enough insulation in the UK.
Step 3, relay the insulation. That's the whole point of raising the floor bud. 👍
Did you actually watch the video before being critical? Great video and exactly what I'm going to do. Doing this means when you are walking around up there, the weight is distributed across several trusses. Not achieved with crappy loft legs. 🙂
Why can’t boards be put down in joists
Errrm did you watch the video?
Not enough clearance for insulation
@@BNMCarpentry I did. I asked WHY CANT BOARDS BE PUT ON THE JOISTS. Please tell me the time where he explains why they can’t. Thank you
They can. If you only have a base layer of insulation between the joists, even then I wouldn't recommend it as there are straps and cables in the way and you ideally want a slight air gap between insulation and boards. Which you won't get if you board straight on top of joists/ chords. Most houses have more than a base layer of insulation so it's impossible to lay on joists/ chords with removing the top layer of insulation.
Fitting the boards to a raised floor makes the job 10x easier than fitting to existing joists, even if a loft had no insulation, no brackets or cables in the way I'd still do it.