The Perpetual Virginity of Mary
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- www.catholic.com
Trent Horn answers a caller who objects to the Catholic teaching that Mary remained a virgin her entire life.
After his conversion to the Catholic faith, Trent Horn pursued an undergraduate degree in history from Arizona State University. He then earned a graduate degree in theology from Franciscan University of Steubenville and is currently pursuing a graduate degree in philosophy from Holy Apostles College.
Trent is a regular guest on the radio program Catholic Answers Live, a lecturer who speaks across the country on issues related to the Catholic faith, and the author of two books, Answering Atheism and Persuasive Pro-life, both of which are published by Catholic Answers Press.
If you are interested in booking Trent Horn for an upcoming event, please contact Catholic Answers at (619) 387-7200
What I love about my Catholic Church is that everything has an answer, everything has an explanation. Thats the fullness of the faith.
These videos are very interesting. I'm a young Catholic (17) and they are helping me learn even more about God. Thank you and keep up the good work. :)
God bless you. ! Keep striving !
Dr. Alan Hales no it doesn't , did you learn nothing from this video? non of those names mentioned as brothers of Jesus really are, I can give you the names of the father's of these men and scripture to back it up . even Luther the founder of the protestant movement believed very fervently that Mary NEVER had any children other than Jesus
Jarod Bryant look hon, don't listen to these anti catholics people , most of them think they know what we believe but they dont, this is a real good you tube site, one with answers from scholars. so you remain strong and if the catholic faith is for you, I'm sure the Father will let you know
Dr. Alan Hales because the bible tells us to!! not everything Jesus said or did is in the bible , Sola scriptura is a man made doctrine and the bible condemnns it there is no such thing as bible only a nd it's not the only source of divine revelation either and Mary never had any other children there is not One child named in the bible that is said to be the son or daughter of Mary and joseph excel for Jesus even james the less who was actually called the "brother" of jesus was not said to be the son of Mary and joseph , he was a cousin
I wish I could stay as calm as you guys on the show. I was in a Christian chat room and some fella asked what would happen if someone died before confessing their sins, naturally, I told him about purgatory and then all of a sudden was subject to a torrent of abuse from everyone else in the chat room. I then got a message from the administrator of the page saying, 'we dont allow catholic teachings to be discussed in here' Well, being an Irish/Maori Catholic I saw red and unleashed on everyone. Woops. So now I watch you guys and can articulate my arguments a lot better. Keep it up fellas.
Thank you Catholic Answers you have all the answers, it strengthens my faith more as Catholic.
I as a Catholic always had trouble with explaining to protestants how the immaculate conception of Mary is biblical.
Well-spoken caller
Many people tell me I see things differently than do most people: I don't claim to be any kind of religious scholar, but my first thought is that the subject of Perpetual Virginity is a red herring.Regardless of whether or not this doctrine is correct, Jesus still died on the cross and then rose from the dead, to atone for the sins of all men.Anyone want to explain to me why this subject is considered so critical?
GOD BLESS
Matthew 1:25
Look at all of the translations. Including the Greek.
Mary, the Ark As Revealed in Mary's Visit to Elizabeth
Golden Box: Ark of the Old Covenant Mary: Ark of the New Covenant.
(OLD) The ark traveled to the house of Obed-edom in the hill country of Judea (2 Sam. 6:1-11).
(NEW) Mary traveled to the house of Elizabeth and Zechariah in the hill country of Judea (Luke 1:39).
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(OLD) Dressed as a priest, David danced and leapt in front of the ark (2 Sam. 6:14).
(NEW) John the Baptist - of priestly lineage - leapt in his mother's womb at the approach of Mary (Luke 1:41).
___________
(OLD)David asks, "How can the ark of the Lord come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9).
(NEW) Elizabeth asks, "Why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43).
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(OLD)David shouts in the presence of the ark (2 Sam. 6:15).
(NEW) Elizabeth "exclaimed with a loud cry" in the presence of the Mary (Luke 1:42).
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(OLD) The ark remained in the house of Obed-edom for three months (2 Sam. 6:11).
(NEW) Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth for three months (Luke 1:56).
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(OLD) The house of Obed-edom was blessed by the presence of the ark (2 Sam. 6:11).
(NEW)The word blessed is used three times; surely the house was blessed by God (Luke 1:39-45).
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(OLD) The ark returns to its home and ends up in Jerusalem, where God's presence and glory is revealed in the temple (2 Sam. 6:12; 1 Kgs. 8:9-11).
(NEW) Mary returns home and eventually ends up in Jerusalem, where she presents God incarnate in the temple (Luke 1:56; 2:21-22).
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Mary as the Ark Revealed by Items inside the Ark
Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant
The stone tablets of the law - the word of God inscribed on stone The body of Jesus Christ - the word of God in the flesh
The urn filled with manna from the wilderness - the miraculous bread come down from heaven The womb containing Jesus, the bread of life come down from heaven (John 6:41)
The rod of Aaron that budded to prove and defend the true high priest The actual and eternal High Priest
Tim Spangler
Those verses, as beautiful as they are, do not refute anything Martin has laid out. "Should I believe God or the Catholic Church?", this is actually two fallacies in one:
The Red Herring, where you have presented a topic that...doesn't really address Martin's post and brings up a new hole to go down.
False Dichotomy, where you present two seemingly exclusive options, a "false dilemma" either the Catholic Church or God. Where there is another option that the Catholic Church could be speaking the word of God. It's just like saying, "Well do you believe the testimony of Moses or that of God?". Well as we both would agree, the testimony of Moses IS the testimony of God, even if it is a mans. ;)
Tim Spangler Timmy what you obviously don't understand is that the CHURCH is of Jesus Christ, it is not mans testimony it is Christ working through His Church that He established on ROCK.
What Church do you claim??? Or do you claim the Church of TIMMY any of these is a mans testimony because it is of men, not of Christ and His One Church, WHICH SPEAKS ALL TURTH!
Timmy, lol you stated: "Should I believe God's testimony"? Timmy, Please you don't believe in God's Testimony you reject John 15: 4-8 to fortify your OSAS, again, as you admitted you pick and choose.
John 15: 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing. 6 If any one abide not in me, he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and he burneth. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask whatever you will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 In this is my Father glorified; that you bring forth very much fruit, and become my disciples
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you "MAY" know that you have eternal life."(1John 5:9-13) I too writhe these thing to you Timmy, what part of "MAY" don't you understand???
The word "MAY" have Eternal, Life blows OSAS BACK INTO HELL!
So everything you say is contradiction THEREFORE you are unbelievable.
Martin Sandoval Wow!! Thanks so much for this information Martin,it has a totally sense.
Timmy the question is why are you So Very Jealous re: the Catholic Church???
Let your Jealousy bring you into the Catholic Church not separate you even further.
Timmy, as you know, Jesus Christ founded a Church, Scripture say so, now that being fact, Timmy, Jesus would never let it fall into error, He promised it.
Timmy, I find it odd that you criticize the Catholic Church, but never will say what church you belong to or what church you have founded. lol
Timmy by You not mentioning your Church you criticize it more than you do the Catholic Church lol are you embarrassed of it?
+Shay dee I copied and pasted, that is all i did. IT is God, who did this AWESOME WORK REGARDING VIRGIN MARY, OUR MOTHER.
You guys are just wonderful -God Bless
I always thought about Jesus, on the cross, giving his mother over to his disciple John. It seems to me that if Jesus had younger siblings, they would have been the ones to take care of their mother Mary....."Seeing his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing near her, Jesus said to his mother 'Woman, this is your son.' Then to the disciple he said, 'This is your mother.' And from that hour the disciple took her into his home." John, 19:26-27.
Johnny, you got it right. Very much so. Virgin Mary- the "feminine face of God" ( as described by John Paul II) is interconnected with Jesus (God) in ways that surpass our imagination. As a matter of fact, to understand Mary, one has to open up his mind as much as possible, as St. Augustine did in "Confessions". Among other attributes, Mary is the so called "Prima Materia", created by God before time and as such the only suitable one to carry the creator of the universe in her womb (ark) and as such is greeted by Gabriel like no one else, before or after. Now, the narrow minded interpretations of certain verses of the scriptures (from different translations), particularly by the evangelical and protestant scholars and preachers is astonishing and reductive.
In the Koine Greek, the word "until" is not the only word we should consider. Look at the verb that precedes the preposition, "until" as well. Look at the mood, tense, and voice (grammar) of the preceding verses in each verse where that preposition is used and compare them.
Richard who? I couldn't distinguish the name of the protestant theologian. Some help, please?
I gland this videos it is very interesting, I'm of Mexico but I love my Catholic Church
He forgot to mention when Jesus was crucified, He entrusted Mary His mother to John the beloved, so where are His brothers and sisters, this is supposed to be a monumental event in His life and yet they are not present during His last breathe. If Jesus was their older brother, I cant feel that love, respect, sympathy, of all not from Jesus own family. They could have migrated out of Judea during Jesus ministry, but it would be weird to leave behind their mother isnt it? It just doesnt make sense!
I have no problem with Mary's perpetual virginity, my only problem is the veneration and prayers given to her, when there's no other name given under the heaven that men are saved, it's Jesus Christ. This Marian devotion is like competing with God for attention to men. God is a jealous God, we should only pray to God, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Btw, you might want to check the Old testament, there's also that "Queen of Heaven" that angered God against Israelites for idolatry, let's not repeat the history but learn from it.
is that you Tim asking this question .?
Mark 6:3 3 Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph,[a] Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.
8:55 (video) Matthew 27:56 - 56z Among them were Mary Magdalene and >Mary< the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.
But, it is Mary?
And could someone provide me scriptures stating that Mary would have been sinning had she had sexual relations with Joseph after having Jesus? I mean, I've never thought of the whole half brother thing and that could be true. But at 9:14 (video), when he talked about the apostle James as having a dad that wasn't Joseph, doesn't that kind of destroy the whole half brother theory if you think that the James in Galatians 1:19 and Luke 6:15 are the same guy? You need at least one parent in common to be a half-brother.
I'm a little confused about the "until" bit...Can someone explain it to me further?
jessjess The original word does not mean "until" in the sense it is most commonly used in English. In English, there is usually the sense that when one does something "until" something else, that a change occurs at that point. ie. I will not eat lunch until noon (implying that I will start to eat at noon). In the original language, it does mean that lunch will not happen to that point, but the assumption we make as English speakers that the activity changes after that point does not hold.
In that case, "I will not each lunch until noon" DOES mean that no eating takes place prior to noon, but it does NOT mean that I start eating after that point (or ever). English doesn't really have a good single-word to throw in there that gives that sense, and so "until" is most commonly used, which unfortunately gives rise to misunderstanding.
The examples they give in the video are ones that prove that "until" in Biblical translation to English need not imply that the situation changes after that point (ie. that a person who "did not have children until the day of her death" does not imply that she did start having children posthumously). Therefore, just because the text says Joseph did not know Mary "until" Jesus was born does NOT mean that he did have intercourse with her afterward...there's just no better word to use when translating into English.
Thanks for answering! That makes a lot more sense. But even though it doesn't mean a change will occur, does it rule out the chance of a change ever occurring? Or because the authors of the gospels are writing after the Assumption of Mary we can assume that "until" in this case means no change? Thanks again! Your explanation cleared it up for me.
It doesn't rule it out, either. It leaves it ambiguous. By itself, the argument about the meaning of "until" does not demonstrate Mary's perpetual virginity. However, the argument that "until" does imply change afterward like it does in English is a very common argument made by Sola Scriptura folks, and this demonstrates that it hinges on a misunderstanding of the word on their part, and that the use of "until" does not imply what they say it does one bit, once one understands the sense of the original.
You guys are so calm and very respectful on this show, excellent work!
However, I don't get why you guys keep mentioning Luther and Calvin to the Protestant you were talking to. Most protestants don't find them ultimately authoritative, although maybe he did since you knew him, but I did find it interesting what you said about them!
Also, the texts you mentioned about the until passages, I didn't find that point convincing because the ideas that are possible to get from the texts were nonsensical like the "childless until the day of her death" or other passages you mentioned showed the conclusions to be bizarre, but the idea that Mary had children afterward could absolutely make sense and in fact it seems that it would render the statement meaningless unless she did actually have children afterward.
The other points about the brothers was rather weak and just because the brothers were younger and it wouldn't have been very normal for them to correct him doesn't mean the outrageousness of Jesus' view didn't cause a break in the norm.
Kami It is true that the younger-brothers-won't-correct-older-brothers is fairly weak, but the points they made about the other brothers actually being identified later on in scripture as having parents other than Joseph and Mary are exceedingly strong.
As for the "until" argument, it merely proves that the word is demonstrably NOT used in scripture with the same implications it is in English, and so therefore the passages about Joseph and Mary are ambiguous. In other words, the use of the word "until" proves nothing either way. You argue that "the idea that Mary had children afterward could absolutely make sense" is about as strong as the case for the younger/elder brother bit. It's based on an assumption on your part of what seems reasonable.
The specialness of Mary aside, there were sub-sects of Judaism at the time which believed the end of the world was coming, and their married couples did not have children (so the idea that a first-century Jewish couple might remain childless [but for the child not conceived through sexual intercourse, in this case] is also historically reasonable).
Whether you regard 1st century Jewish childlessness as reasonable or not doesn't change the fact that the other brothers are identified as not being literal siblings in scripture itself, so if you're insisting that Jesus had real brothers, you're pulling them out of thin air.
I would love to read it in order for me to defend the Marian doctrine. How can I get a copy?? Please.
Catholic Answers If you saw my other comment you would know i am needing help on this subject.. I must say I LIVE WHERE THIS CALLER IS FROM LOL
can someone explain why I must believe that Mary never had sex to have Jesus take away my sins? how does this apply practically in my walk with the Lord?
If you're Catholic, you have to believe it. Mary is "married" to the Holy Spirit, or "married" to God, so if she had relations with Joseph it would be adultery. Like Mary, you can as a Catholic be married to God when you join religious life.
+Katrina Rhoda Diaz Oh my God, I feel like vomiting. Since when did Catholic faith say Mary is married to Holy Spirit or God? You should take out your brains while you're still alive, least you fall in the bottomless pit, idolater.
DonVito Corleone Here's a bucket, godfather, for your vile vomit. Cheers!
CandaceWhite Such a Protestant thing to say. Where in scripture, etc.? But ok. Luke chapter 1 verse 35.
CandaceWhite If you are genuinely looking for answers and not just looking for an opportunity to bash the RCC, then look up Catholic apologists' articles on the subject. It would be easier to read them than to make me explain. EWTN has some great articles on Mary.
Basically, Mary has a special relationship with the Trinity. She is the daughter of the Father, mother of the Son and spouse of the Holy Spirit.
This is difficult to understand with our limited human minds, BUT just because it is difficult, perhaps even impossible, to understand doesn't mean it is untrue. Most of us will never understand astrophysics, but that doesn't mean astrophysics is untrue.
I'll pray for you.
I understand it did not happen. But let us pretend Mary had children with her husband Joseph. Did she sin? Did she lose her state of grace? What commandment did she break?
ROBERTO PEREZ CAMIADE None I think. But look at this verse Ezekiel 44:2 "@44The LORD said to me, "This gate shall be shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it, for the LORD God of Israel has entered by it; therefore it shall be shut.". This verse was used by Church fathers to defend perpetual virginity of Mary.
Tim Spangler Nope. You are promoting falsehood with your ignorance of the traditional understanding on Mary's virginity. Does it make her divine if lived as a virgin all her life? No. There are a lot of women who take a vow of chastity. Does it contradict the bible? No. As I mentioned read Ezekiel 44:2. How sure are you she had sexual intercourse after giving birth to Christ? When Christ died on the Cross, he ask John to take care of Mary. He did not ask anyone else. He did not have any brother or sister with Mary.
Micheal R? How do we know the bible is talking about Mary in that passage ? Please it would be helpful if you could help me understand
+sunkissgirl818 The Lord God of Israel entered the earth through Mary in the form of Jesus Christ, God and Man. Now, the gate becomes a metaphor of Mary. If it is shut, it means none has entered Mary's womb (it could mean that no sin entered or Mary's virginity remained).
The opening stanza of Mary’s Magnificat speaks of God as her “Savior,” thus giving implicit testimony from Mary’s own lips that she needed redemption. In such a biblical context, that could refer only to salvation from sin. Mary was in effect confessing her own sinfulness.
Aw the the cult of Marian devotion. Don't believe it! The idea that Mary remained a perpetual virgin, is impossible to reconcile with the fact that Jesus had half-brothers who are named in Scripture alongside both Joseph and Mary as their parents: “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?” (Matthew 13:55). Furthermore Matthew 1:25 says that Joseph abstained from sexual relations with Mary only “until she gave birth to a Son."
to all catholics, please read the Bible and ask God to open your mind and heart that you might discover the truth before its too late
So if Catholics argue for the perpetual virginity of Mary, doesn't that mean they're also arguing for the perpetual virginity of Joseph?
+Ravi Keller Very likely he was a virgin as well, but we don't know.
+Ravi Keller That is why people cannot rely on the Bible alone for these details. Evangelical Protestants say that traditions are bad but can the Bible answer who were Mary's parents or Joseph's life before being engaged to Mary? No!
+Ravi Keller Hit it on head! Bravo. Catholics will like to wiggle out of this one. They won't give you a straight answer.
Rodney Burton : What is so shameful for Joseph to have sex with his legally married wife I ask you? So how can he be a virgin?
Bellevie : Traditions are not only bad, they are corrupt. Just like the jews who put their faith and hope on traditions rather than on God.
Who says that we cannot rely on the bible. It has everything such that you need not search for answers from traditions of men or customs.
Mary had a dozen children and the same is clearly recorded in the Bible for all to see. They have names too for the children of Mary.
+Bellevie Oh so how did you know that Joseph had earlier family, because as far as we can read when they left to Egypt to hide for many years when Herod tried to killed all the babies below 2years, its just the 3 of them, we can even see it in the Xmas Nativity figurines. And the neighbors of Jesus when He began His ministry got familiar to Him by His earthly father, mother and brothers and sisters. So Catholic is making too many assumptions like perpetual virginity of Mary and that Jesus has no half brothers and half sisters by Mary and Joseph.
Sorry Mary was not ever virgin, she had other children, she is not a mediatrix, she is not the way to Jesu, God the father is, she is not co redeemer. She is blessed. She is favored by God,
Come on, this is really silly