David Baddiel Changed My Mind About Being Jewish: Here’s How
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- čas přidán 19. 12. 2022
- Reading Jews Don’t Count shifted a lot of my thoughts around being Jewish so I was really excited to sit down with David Baddiel in the studio & chat all about the amount of antisemetism in progressive spaces, Jewish people being expected to publicly share their opinions about Israel, & Jewish characters in media not being played by Jewish actors, amongst other things!
Jews Don’t Count by David Baddiel*:
David Baddiel’s Jews Don’t Count documentary: www.channel4.com/programmes/d...
The Y Word: • The Y-Word
Virtually Christmas by David Baddiel*: uk.bookshop.org/a/689/9780008...
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This was a crossover I didn't know I needed. What a fantastic video.
A racist that can openly mock others but gets but hurt when people are racist against him?
They call non Jews goy and chattel...
"The Y word is often used by Ashkenazim here in U.s...
Like ?YID? When talking to another person...isn't it the Yiddish word for Jew?
All this prejudice shit is so amazing to someone from multicultural California...my son is as much black as Jewish but of course in USA by the one drop rule ... identifies as African American.
Godspeed your lovely inclusy messages.
Ox
Wow I'm here for the alternate reality of David Baddiel being your dad haha. I read Jews Don't Count last year and it really opened my eyes to how overlooked antisemitism is across the board, the high-low duality (and Schridinger's whiteness) is unique among ethnic minorities and ought to be critiqued and understood by all. When he said that Jews shouldn't shy away from their Jewishness publicly or statistically (like in the census) I initially felt that that's an overly simplistic view to take, that it's reasonable for Jews to be fearful being branded Jewish in this increasingly data-driven world (with the growth of public antisemitism in the US and elsewhere, and obviously given the Holocaust), but also, fuck that - visibility would do a lot more to dismantle antisemitism than fear would. Excellent video, you're both very articulate. I'd love to see David come back some day!
But he can do blackface?
@@andrewburnett4931 he did blackface in sketches 25 years ago and has since apologised to everybody he impersonated. It's weak to use that against him at this point.
I would like Hannah to refer to him as Daddy Baddiel from now on.
omg daddy Baddiel 😂😂😂
Are we just ignoring the racism Baddiel launched at Jason Lee?
Haven't clicked on a video this fast in a long time! Only a few minutes in and I'm already loving this conversation. Thanks for sharing your feelings/experience around your Jewish identity 💜
Loved this video! I feel like I learned so much from Mr. Baddiel. Such an interesting and worthwhile discussion! So glad you had him on, Hannah! Happy Vlognukah! ❤
Oh this is lovely! Such an interesting and thought-provoking conversation filled with an air of kindness
I love how Vlognukah this year had a Jewish focus rather than just other videos. Learning a little bit everyday and really enjoying it.
(Plus this collab is awesome!🎉)
Love this PROGRAMMMM vlognakkuh has been amazing this year ❤
This was a fantastic conversation, thank you for sharing it!
Oh this video was incredible - I read David Baddiel's book recently (and have spent many hours discussing the statement of 'Schrodinger's White' with Jewish friends, which has been so important for me to understand their POV) so when this popped up in my sub box I was like 'THIS COLLAB?! OH MY GOD!' I'm really happy for you Hannah to see you exploring your Jewish identity in more depth, and from a non-Jewish perspective this is both fascinating and also incredibly informative for constantly trying to learn to be a better ally and understand Judaism more
if I’m remembering right, the character Peter B Parker in the Spiderverse spiderman movies is jewish (I believe they show jewish wedding traditions in a montage of his life?) and is voiced by a jewish actor :)
@@emilymaeflower93 yeah you're right. Also apart from the MCU spider man, spider man is heavily coded as Jewish even if its not confirmed
This was fascinating and I'm so grateful that you shared! I've been saying this kind of stuff myself but it's awesome to know that there's a book I can point people to about it. Wonderful!
I really appreciated this conversation. Thanks for sharing!
This was a fantastic episode of my favourite program 😉 it’s really helped me understand a lot of thoughts I’d clumsily put together from comments you’ve made in other videos and order them in a coherent way. I live in Melbourne where we have the biggest Orthodox Jew population outside of Israel and unfortunately there’s a lot of antisemitism that’s not being talked about as an issue. I’ve struggled to articulate myself when I challenge it beyond the basics but I feel I’ll be better at it now. So thank you!
This video and crossover were so good. Loved every second!
This is such an interesting conversation and you are an excellent interviewer/conversationalist! I would love to see more content like this (and take it as another push to listen to more of your podcast)
This is a beautiful and really interesting conversation. Thank you for sharing!
I learned so much from this video, and just ordered this book so I can learn more. Such a fantastic conversation between the two of you, and very thought provoking for me as a non-Jewish person. Definitely a new favourite video of yours! I’ve been loving the vlognakkuh videos this year! :)
This is not a collaboration I would have ever expected but it is very welcome omg
Thank you for an incredible video and discussion ❤️ happy holidays
Excited for this vid!
Loved this video! Thank you for sharing this conversation with us 💚
What a great conversation, thanks Hannah!
Incredibly interesting video! I’ve been trying to open this conversation with other people thanks to those videos and learning so much 😊 Not jewish myself but I have family history related to WW2, like a lot of us, and I think you brought up very important things to be aware of! Thanks Hannah and David!
This was such an interesting conversation! Thanks for this video
This was lovely. Thank you for this!
Very interesting video, really really educational!! Had to pause to process all i was learning. Thank you for this content!
Wow thanks for this fantastic video! I just started reading the book because of this and it was a needed addition to my worldview
Such a great interview and conversation!
Hannah, Vlognukah this year is really resonating for me. Between this and the dual citizenship video... someone's chopping onions somewhere. So many of the things that come up around identity and connection to Jewishness really hit home for me too.
Why don't you go to Israel if you refuse to assimilate?
Read David’s book this year after seeing your recommendation, what a fantastic read and interesting collab!
I learned so much from this video. Thank you for sharing!
This was such an interesting video! His book is added to my to read list.
Great video, and an amazing discussion. Really gives some really interesting insight that I would have never even considered which I guess is the whole point :D.
I'm so glad you're exploring this Hannah. If you want more resources on Judaism/Jewish identity I'm more than happy to talk and point you in specific directions to continue exploring.
Love from an American Jewish educator 💖
I'm not Hannah (hehe) but I am an American Jew who only learned about her heritage after adulthood. I've always been drawn to Judaism, even before I knew about the heritage, but have floundered trying to educate myself (and my interested children) on my own (there is great estrangement on my mother's side, long story). There is great interest in learning and expressing especially as the rise of antisemitism reaches new hights.
Where should I start? Where can I go? I can't be any form if Orthodox because I (shock!) married a Roman Catholic - ya you bet that's been fun 🙄) and Chabad told me straight I'd have to divorce (not happening). Anyway, enough blabbering.. thanks in advance
Also not Hannah 😅 but an Australian Jewish lass which grew up going to a Jewish Day School until 8th grade (I also used to go to Habonim - also not really for the Zionism, but more for the socialising aspect) but then went to a prestigious Methodist high school on a scholarship. I went from completing the entirety of my 8th grade studies in the "Accelerated Hebrew Program", by proxy making my final year of studies at my Jewish School in a bilingual setting, where every subject except for English class was they taught in Hebrew at an 11th Grade level of difficulty. By the start of my time outside of the "Jewish School Bubble" in 9th Grade, my Maternal Grandparents had both passed away, unfortunately putting an end to 99% of any Jewish traditions that we practiced during my childhood. No more shabbat dinners, weekly Shule visits or even going to the Shule for all of the Simchas or Yommim and no celebrations of Channukkah, Pesach (no more Seders! 😭) Yom Kippur, Sukkot or Purim.
I feel like I lost so much of my Jewish Identity. I went on a Birthright style program at the end of 12th grade for a few weeks and after not having spoken Hebrew at all for literal YEARS, I was shocked to find that 4 days in to the trip, my Hebrew had come back to me so quickly that I managed to pass as a local at a Shuk and got the non-tourist prices for the remainder of the visit. That trip reignited my interest in Hebrew and in my heritage, but I feel so lost when it comes to the latter aspect. My now husband isn't Jewish and is eager to know more and whenever I mention any cultural aspect of Judaism and I never know how to answer his questions as to why we practice certain things or why things are the way they are. I'd love to gain access to information and resources so I can learn more about my heritage and educate others ❤️
Not Hannah or Rebecca but thought it would be helpful to say that there’s no requirement to divorce your non-Jewish husbands to learn more about your heritage and being interested in Judaism 😂 sites like Chabad and Aish are very informative on a lot of religious aspects but they are rooted in an Orthodox perspective. There’s quite a few Instagram accounts that celebrate Jewish life, culture, history that I’d think would be a great place to start. RootsMetals has amazingly researched historical posts, Miriamanzovin has a series where she narrates the daily tractate of Talmud, and thatrelatablejew has Jewish lifestyle content. There are plenty more but I’d start with those and then see what else the algorithm sends your way!
Please learn about it from someone who isn't a self interested grifter. Baddiel only started this after the (largely made up, read the Forde report and watch the Labour Files Al-Jazeera documentary) antisemitism crisis in the British labour party. Before that he was an F list comedian who'd made his money doing black face in the 90s. I'm personally willing to overlook a lot of racism if people evolve and apologise but all he's done is come out to claim that black people have it so good and he's the real victim. He only apologised for the racism literally right before his documentary came out so pretty obviously just covering his arse there. There are plenty of more well read and more honest people out there to speak on this issue.
What I found really interesting reading the book (and watching this video) was how closely Jewish-ness and bisexuality remind me of each another in certain ways. I'm not Jewish, but I am bisexual and studying Judaism currently, and a lot of the talk of being two things at once, and how that perceived (but not really relevant) privelege leads to erasure was originally not something I'd thought to apply to other areas. Obviously the bisexuality erasure isn't as prevalent now in the way it used to be, but it's still a reminder that ignorance can leave us blind, even to behavior we're incredibly familiar with.
That’s a really interesting comparison!
This is a great way to frame call me by your name- Judaism and bisexuality as metaphors for each other
As a Jewish persob who is also bi, this is a great comparison. Although I have to say I'm more anxious about being Jewish in queer spaces than bi, but the comparison is definitely there
Same Rosie ^^
But blackface though?
SO EXCITED!!!☃️❤️💚💚💚💚🎁❤️☃️🎅🏻🎅🏻🎅🏻🎄🎄💚🎁🎁🎁🎁❤️☃️🎅🏻🎅🏻💚💚💚💚🎁🎁🎁🎁❤️☃️🎅🏻🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄☃️🎅🏻🎅🏻☃️❤️❤️☃️☃️🎁🎁🎁🎁
such an insanely exciting collab!! loved this discussion and it really made me think more deeply as a non-Jewish person after reading David's book!
This was so insightful and interesting, and brought up some really important things that I had never considered before about Jewish people and the different ways your identity can intersect, so thank you to you both!
This is a gem of a video!!! So relevant for me right now. Thank you thank you!!!😊
hearing you describe your experience getting your german citizenship was so interesting and made me quite sad. i'm jewish and a few years ago i got romanian citizenship for similar reasons, but that experience was actually really unpleasant. it was very difficult and when we did finally get to the ceremony the workers there seemed mostly annoyed that we were allowed to do this at all. i understood them at the time because, well, they're right i don't care about being romanian, i wanted an EU citizenship. but wow, i think my grandmother would have SO appreciated being apologized to and to have it recognized that this wouldn't even be necessary had she not been driven out of her country. i had never even considered that before. eye opening, thank you for sharing!
i mean those workers dont know that so its a bit unfair to be complaining about them doing their job when youre literally saying you dont care about their culture and just want a EU passport when romanians in the UK have not been extended the same privilege and now face xenophobia after brexit
This was so so interesting!!
As an Israeli Jew, I really feel the Jewish shame you talk about whenever I'm abroad, but I'm much more ashamed of being Israeli because, um, I do like people having human rights? I do think there's a lot of antisemitism when criticizing Israel, but it's not like there's not a lot of actual criticism for Israel. The only reason I haven't left Israel yet is I really can't leave my family right now. God, Israel sucks. I feel so much guilt about the Palestinian people's situation, I hate it so much. I always vote for parties that champion Palestinian freedom, but in the last election "peace" was not even on the table. It's so depressing.
As an Israeli, do you really see what happening as taking other's human rights? Everyone wants others to be free and happy.. but it doesn't work if they want you dead.
But I agree the situation sucks... I don't agree Israel sucks. The UK and the USA also have their problems.. there are even things Israel does better. Israel is pretty amazing for the situation it is in, for its size, and for its age.
@@Abilliph, I'm just wondering, there definitely are people who want to completely wipe out Israel (and they are undeniably antisemitic to put it mildly) but do you think it is the majority of Palestinians? From an outsider, it seems that there is a mix of fear-mongering from the Israeli government and organisations and the genesis of hate against Israel because of the effect of the governments actions against the Palestinian people. I do feel for Israel though as it is precariously positioned geopolitically and it's understandable that it is so defensive given the centuries/millennia of antisemitism).
@@Abilliphit doesn't work when you want to continuasly steal land and refuse allowing refugees back into their lands cause it'll stand in the way of the ethno-state you want*
Let's not pretend that anti-Jewish sentiments in Palestine is remotely similar to that in Europe/North America or anywhere else, historically it wasn't and even early israeli leaders said the hatred in very justified and we can't say nothing about it, land ownership and existing on your land and travelling freely and buying land where you reside in is a human right that has been taken away since 1948 and israel is indeed going backwards on every right and slowly turning into a Jewish Afghanistan or Amish land and the situation it is in is being supported by the vast majority of western countries politically and financially.
How are you feeling about this issue now?
@knowhere60 Thank you for asking and being interested! As you'd might expect everything is so much worse right now 😓
Im surrounded by suffering, and I feel so helpless. It is really depressing, I'm sorry I don't have anything cheerful to say. I know so many people who died in this conflict, my little brother has a good friend who's now kidnapped in Gaza, the army that claims do defend me is bombarding civilians with no supervision, my government is comprised of racists, authoritarians, corrupted and opportunits, hate crimes are rampant all around the world and it's not lookint like it's going to improve any time soon.
This was really thought provoking and informative. Thank you for making this video!
One of the things my brain latched onto was how much your emotional reactions spoke and helped me understand the significance of things. And I think that is one of the reasons it is so important to let minorities speak for themselves, becuase the genuinity of it and the things that are actually important are easily overlooked when the mainstream are holding the power over the narrative.
I am drawing a lot of comparisons with the disability community here: I have taken courses in uni about teaching kids with various kinds of disabilities (pedagogy studies), but in reality those courses (even though giving some information) haven't really thought me anything useful because they were taught by ablebodied people and there have been so much I would have missed or misunderstood if I hadn't gone to social media to search out people with disabilities to hear their own perspectives, to actually learn what's important. It's such a huge difference when it's coming from the primary source, so to say.
It has also helped me understand my own disabilites better and heal from some internalised abelism in a way that learning about it from well meaning but still able bodied and neurotypical people would never have given me. (For example if feels hugely othering sitting in a classroom learning about how to include kids in school with different kinds of difficulties, when the teacher talks like there exists no such representation in that room in that moment and it even feels kind of unsafe to "come out" and point out that I do exist...)
So what am I trying to say? Not sure? That it's important with community as part of a minority and also for everybody else to listen to them, maybe? Like, I have no idea what it's like being jewish, but I think David has a good point in that different minority communities should learn from and uplift each other. Even if there are distinct things about different identities, there are still comparisons that you can make.
Very interesting! Thank you for doing this.
Seeing references to movies like Shiva Baby in the comments is making me crave a Vlognukah video of you reacting/reviewing all of the Jewish movies/tv you’ve watched 🎥 🍿
Bump! Yes please 🥰
Jewish movies made you mean Hollywood?
I love this so much, Hannah. ❤
I feel that a really important conversation that is often forgot about is that in addition to jews who experience Schrödinger cat of race there are millions of mizrahi, black, Latinx, Asian and other non white jews who are often forgotten in conversation of representation in media and the question of is antisemitism racism or not.
I absolutely loved this video and going to read this book immediately!
Perhaps you would be interested to look up David Badiel and his history of wearing blackface on TV and making a black football player the butt of racist jokes.
Its latinos and latinas
Keep your transgender Kaballah gabrage to yourself Livnat stop colonizing our culture
@@powderandpaint14 Hè is Jewish they basically invented blackface, Sarah Silverman did it too they still have work everywhere
@Livnat Kafka Thank you for this comment!!!
This is something i have noticed happens far too often. It bothers me so much because it just leaves massive parts of Jewish history, traditions and culture and most importantly, people, out of the conversation. It upsets me that such a massive part of the Jewish population is fogotten about/ erased, including within Jewish circles ( i find this to be the case far too often, especialy in anglo countries*. There is a logical reason for this but it still doesn't justify it). Antismitism and persecution of Jews has existed for over 2,000 years but has not always been for the same reason or looked the same. It is important to acknowledge them if we are to have an in depth conversation about antisemitism.
*i also believe that it perpetuates this mass misconseption of Jews being white. Though I as a Jew of European descent have "white-privlidge", which since learning about this concept I try hard to ecknowledge and recognize the aspects in which this might give me an unfair advantige, there are some cases where this misconception is weponized against Jews. Categorizing Jews as a specific race is not only wrong, factualy and conceptualy, it also comes with a perceived immunity which, in my opinion downplays Jewish suffering throughout the ages (which i think is a massive component of the type of antisemitism described in this video). for me personaly, it dismisses integral parts of my Jewish (and general) identity.
@@RSZ528 Where do you live?
I love love love this video. One of my favorites on this whole channel.
I’ve had Jews Don’t Count on my to read list since it came out but I’m going to actually read it over Christmas after watching this. Such an interesting chat!
Meanwhile the most powerfull government in the world is making a special taskforce council from American taxpayers money to stop people from mentioning facts
But yeah Jews dont count, according to who? Jews LMAO
I'm laughing at the "I don't get Hanukkah presents anymore" thing because at the start of the year I wished my Chinese friend a happy lunar new year and we had a chat about the traditions (my bday is around then so sometimes she couldn't come to my parties as a kid but she would give me a red envelope with money when she saw me and I was always really chuffed ahaha) and she said she still gets the envelopes because she's not married and says she might put off getting married to keep getting them and I just love these kind of cultural loopholes, like heaping praise on Hannah's mum and then saying she has to get Hannah a present this year 😂❤
I'm glad you had David on. One thing I'd like to point out is that whenever people talk about Jews and white-ness, everyone seems to forget that while many Jews in Europe and the US are Ashkenazi, the majority of Jews in Israel are Mizrachi and categorically not white by any type of categorization. Israel has massive amounts of Jews from MENA and other places like Ethiopia and Iran. Most Jews in Israel are brown, and talking about Judaism as though it's a white experience universally is just not accurate.
I do totally agree on using the word Jew. I recently got into a discussion on a plant subreddit of all places about whether people should say Jew or Jewish and I explained why the word Jew is not a slur, nor should it be treated as such (someone had censored it like this J*w). Doing so makes it look like a dirty word and I am proud to be a Jew, and for thousands of years people have tried to take away the Jewish identity from Jews and we should not be helping them do that.
In addition, I understand the desire to not have to answer about Israel every time being Jewish comes up, and I experience it constantly as well, but by entirely removing Israel from the conversation you basically nearly 50 percent of Jews and their experiences. Obviously your experience as a Jew in the UK is different of that as a Jew in Tel Aviv, but both of those experiences are equally as valid.
All in all, a great video. Happy Chanuka!
Friday Night Dinner is a fantastic Jewish, British sitcom!
Lovely bit of squirrel 🐿️
Well this was very interesting. I loved this conversation! Brought up so many questions. Especially about actors and what they are "allowed" to portray.
Funny how Jews like Dave cry about non Jews playing Jews but supports some dark African to play a British king in the middle ages.
Brilliant Hannah xxx Thank you xx
Thank you, Hannah, for introducing me to Daniel Baddiel and thanks to you both for this conversation! This was incredibly helpful!
commenting before even watching the video because I'm familiar with this book... thank you so much for platforming this person
Such an interesting video! And David is a great guest.
That was eye opening. I’m defs going to look up his book
Really enjoyed this!
Utterly fabulous video...
I'm in tears!
No Jewish connection, but my grandfather came to London during the war from the Netherlands and met my grandmother over here, so there was a surprising amount of things in this video that reminded me of my grandfather...
Great video. Very interesting and enlightening.
He is amazing David Baddiel and so glad he helped you crossover and everything and that is awesome and I love his books 🕎💚☃️☃️💚🕎💚❤️❤️🎄🎄❤️☃️☃️🕎🎅🏻🎅🏻🎁🎅🏻💚💚🕎🎄❤️❤️☃️💚🕎🎅🏻🎁🎅🏻🕎☃️💚🎄❤️❤️❤️☃️🕎🎅🏻🎄❤️❤️☃️☃️💚🎅🏻🎅🏻🎁🎅🏻🕎☃️☃️🕎🎄🎄🎄☃️💚🕎🎅🏻🎅🏻🎁🎅🏻💚💚
Thank you so much this!
So interesting and educational! Thanks for sharing and good on your for choosing to try and "represent" jewishness more in your everyday life even though it may feel uncomfortable and vulnerable in some ways (understandably, as explained in the video). It's brave and appreciated!
LOVE this video!!!
I didn’t think I’d watch all of this because I have a shocking attention span. However, this was so informative and interesting. Thank you for this!
I don’t know much about Jewish culture, Jewish history, or Judaism, but I love learning about it from you! I love that Vlognukah is focused on Judaism, and I hope you’re willing to make more videos about it in the future.
Regarding an ethnicity census, in France it is prohibited and it’s really because the entire population feels worried about the fact it could be exploited in the same way as during WW2. I would feel really uncomfortable having to officially declare my skin color
This was a really really interesting conversation thanks so much for sharing :) i certainly need to educate myself more about antisemitism!
This is fantastic, highlighted a lot of things that I have definitely noticed as someone not Jewish but never thought about to this extent, and it really points out some very important things about anti-semitism in the left, I’ve been lucky enough to follow some creators that do often talk about different things about Jewish culture, so I feel like I have learned a lot and been kept informed and interested to know more about it through that, but this made me even more so, a wonderful chat and video about a really important topic
Again, such an interesting video about a topic I have rarely been exposed to! I remember there being a discussion around Shiva Baby, a movie about a sugar baby at a Shiva, because of the typecasting of a certain Jewish actress as non-Jewish, even in that space. I can't remember if the person playing the protagonist was Jewish herself or not, but it was a really interesting conversation. I know that in the gay community, there is still not really a consensus reached about whether or not gay actors should play gay characters or not and the discussion is very interesting and maybe applicable here as well. (Some people fear that if they demand roles with their identities for themselves, they will be denied roles from other identities based on the same grounds and therefore cause further discrimination and shove themselves into a certain role that may be very stereotypical and not allow them to have range. This is obviously just speculation, but this fear might also have been a factor for the actor who denounced his Jewish identity when it became a public ethical debate.) At the same time, it is definitely seen as more necessary for trans actors to play trans characters. Maybe there is also a level of the Jewish people being white or not white debate at play here because I guess it would mark the difference between a conversation about experience versus physical variation as a factor. I know that for certain Latine people, being white or non-white is also a topic of discussion, given that it is such a unique and fairly new ethnicity with nevertheless rich cultural association. I remember there was a discussion about actress Floriana Lima playing an ethically Mexican character in Supergirl, given that her name was from mainland Spain and her appearance affected by Mediterranean heritage as opposed to Native American, which made people feel betrayed and lied to. That was about the actor's identity, not the content of the show, just like the recent issue around Kit Connor. I'm not saying it was invalid, it certainly isn't my place to do that and there is also an element of criticising someone sharing their personal experience as part of a group and not being relatable to the majority versus someone assuming an experience from the outside and being criticised for that where the distinction does matter. As the disabled community, we have only very recently gotten the acknowledgment that David speaks of here and certainly not across cultures and countries and age groups and outside of the woke bubble. Autistic characters being played by autistic actors is still being fought about and I know many programmes produced today that would still choose to use prosthetics or even visual effects and not cast visibly disabled actors in any roles. There is still a lot of fight left and, as you both said, we need to learn from each other and stand up for each other to reach our milestones and create real change. The Muslim community, the Jewish community, the disabled community, the queer community, the Latine community and everyone else who doesn't feel like they have a seat at the table yet. Again, thank you for this very thought-provoking content!
Hannah I would love to hear your thoughts about the book Milk Fed! It discusses eating disorders heavily so cw/tw but otherwise it’s main focuses are Judaism and Sex/Sexuality.. what a perfect crossover!
Plus it’s just such funny timing since you’re currently breastfeeding and the cover is literally just a giant nipple/areola
a highly unexpected crossover, but a very welcome one! also, it would've been hilarious if something had happened and it turned out david baddiel got with hannah witton's mum that one time
Thank you for this video!
That thing about being two things at once: same for white latinos. I'm brazilian, I'm white, here in Brazil I have all the privileges that come with that. Now, if I go to the US, or Europe, things get a little complicated, and how I'm treated depends on what that person see me as first: a white person, or a latina. Race and ethnicity are two different things, but they're usually mashed together, you're either treated like a white person or not, but for people like us who look white (and are white) but have this other ethnic identity that is marginalized, it's a little weird, but it's a great example to show how race is just a social construct.
Also, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is a show that talks a lot about being jewish, jewish culture, etc, and Rachel Bloom is definitely jewish, I don't think she would cast someone not jewish to play one in her show.
Race is a social construct
Yeah since whites are just as durable in the sun as Blacks
And Chinese people dominate the NFL like Blacks dominate STEM fields right?
Lmao
This is so interesting! I’m not Jewish but I’ve found your recent videos on identity and Jewish identity so interesting. Really enjoyed this and your German citizenship video
Really important video, thank you so much for sharing ! Made me realise just how little we see of the british-jew experience in mainstream media and am grateful to learn more about the ways antisemitism occurs in progressive spaces
The mainstream media which is owned by Jews but lets not talk about that little fact huh Hannah?
Very interesting program, Hannah! 😃 What stuck with me most is the distinction between ethnicity and religion and that being a Jew is not (necessarily) a religious identity but an ethnic identity.
Also the point that Jewish characters should be played by Jewish actors seems obvious if you compare it with deaf actors. Deaf culture differs a lot, probably similarly to Jewish culture, but there are things that tie the groups together.
I would be interested in a video, that explains, what the traditions that all Jews have in common are and which traditions are more prominent in some subgroups. I've seen some bits of documentaries about very strict Jewish religious practices. What would you say are examples of practice a non-religious Jew does topically and which ones only religious Jews do? Like how would an Outsider know what is part of Jewish culture and what is Religion?
Happy holidays! 🌟🌲🕎
I honestly don't even know if there is a distinction between Jewish culture and religion. I mean, Judaism only tries to be the belief system of the Jewish people, not anyone else, so its different from typical religions like Christianity or Islam that proselytise and can be applied to many different cultures and backgrounds. Some religious holidays like Purim have very littel to do with God, and even Chanukah is mostly about defending against forced assimilation, but not necessarily God directly outside of the miracle of oil, and even 'secular' parts of Jewish culture like foods are often related to cultural stories that involve God. But also a lot of different cultures' stories involve Gods/spirits/creation myths etc. and we don't call them religious.
Ultimately, Judaism is the belief system and laws of the Jewish culture/Nation, a group of people displaced from the Middle East into (mainly) Europe. But really, understanding Judaism is easier if you look at it through the lens of other Middle Eastern/African/Indigenous groups as 'a People with a belief system' and not a 'religion for all peoples'.
The 613 laws are the same for all types of Jews, but the 'strict' or 'Orthodox' will just keep all of them, while a more casual religious Jew might try to keep most/some, and secular Jews tend not to keep any laws, or keep them for cultural reasons like Kosher or fasting for Yom Kippur. I'd say the most common holidays for secular Jews to celebrate are the high holy days, passover and Chanukah, but they probably wouldn't do anything for Simchat Torah/Shavuot/Tisha B'av etc.
There are a bunch of differences between Orthodox or religious Jews and secular Jews. It's kinda like any other religion- there are very religion Christians and very secular Christians, same with Muslims and so on. Judaism is something that you are born into (unless you're a convert), according to Jewish law, and you don't stop being a Jew for any reason- so even if you are an athiest or completely secular or even if you convert to a different religion, according to Jewish law you are still Jewish. I think it's one of the reasons that you get so many people saying they are culturally Jewish but don't consider themselves Jewish in a religious sense- because maybe they only celebrate some holidays, or maybe they don't do anything at all, but they are still Jewish, because it's a race as well as a religion.
Hey Naomi, thanks for your explanation! I almost completely agree with you, but I disagree on the word race. It should be called ethnicity, at least that's what I learned. We don't use the word race in Germany, because race refers to the debunked scientific concepts, that lead to the holocaust. It is a concept that was used to declare people of colour and Jewish people to lesser humans.
I can't explain, why ethnicity is better. Maybe someone else can. If race is an accepted word in your country, then ignore my comment.
@@emmynoether9540 I think it's just a linguistics difference, but I understand where you are coming from.
In my opinion, neither race nor ethnicity is really accurate, as there are Jews from many different backgrounds and colors, and at least in Hebrew, we use words meaning "nation", "people", "brothers", and "tribe" to describe what Jews are, and more. I used race as a sort of catch-all to describe a group of people that share culture, identity, and religion, though again, there are a lot of variations of those among Jews from different countries. Definitions are hard, especially when trying to describe ideas or concepts, especially with many different languages and nuances existing.
And also, in Israel the Law of Return purposefully uses the Nazi Germany definition of Jews as to who is eligible for citizenship- they said that if someone was Jewish enough to be murdered by the Nazis, to be prosecuted for their "race" or whatever you want to call it, they are Jewish enough to have a home in Israel (this is even in cases where according to Jewish law, a person isn't technically Jewish- Judaism passes through the mother according to Jewish law, so if your fathers side is Jewish, you might not be considered Jewish, but can still gain Israeli citizenship). So reclaiming Nazi categorization can also be empowering for some people.
Non religious Jews like to shit on white people especially Christians, and promote murder music among Blacks and tell them whites are the soul cause of their struggles.
Hence the backlash
Brilliant and thoughtful interview, thank you both for this conversation. Also an example of representation of Jewish main characters that I've seen is in the webseries The Outs, which finishes its first season with a Channukah episode. The show focuses on out gay men in New York, and their friends. And feels like an example of the type of representation Hannah mentioned here, where it doesn't explain community references to the audience often. This was acted in, co-written and directed by a gay Jewish man called Adam Goldman. I would definitely recommend the show. Thanks again for this interview.
As an American who doesn't know anything about this particular topic, I only knew David Baddiel from recently watching Taskmaster (which I loved wholeheartedly), and my mind has been blown how much I've learned from him in such a short time.
A friend of mine I used to work with was the keenest celebrator of Christmas, even though he was a Muslim. The cultural Christmas is strong in the UK.
What a fantastic video!
Thank you so much for this conversation. I am British and half Jewish, but as it's my father's side, I've always sort of dismissed my Jewish half as 'not counting', thinking purely in religious terms. I've never really thought about it in racial terms. Even when my sister's 23&me results (so presumably mine too!) showed exactly 50% European Jewish.
I haven't yet read David's book, but this video prompted me to finally watch the documentary, and that was full of fascinating moments, so thank you again, for broadening my perspective.
Really interesting video and 100% learned something new on a subject I know little to nothing about. but also really random that I watch this video on 20th December then looked up and watched David on the Royal Variety performance as well as Omid Djalili referenced in the vid as well. Random
omg thank you thank you THANK YOU for this video. I'm American and active in progressive politics and activist spaces, and this is something I'm constantly grappling with.
Of course you are promoting mass third world migration into countries and promoting chemical castrations for transkids right?
Tnx for you name last name and Chubby face your dually noted
This was super interesting! Except I find it a little tricky when David is discussing actors who aren’t Jewish playing Jews, when he did black face multiple times? Which is literal mockery? Would have been cool for him to address that in this video maybe?
Yep!!! Excellent points.
Yes he did. It's shocking that this wasn't brought up in the video.
If it helps, he addresses it several times in the book, and has addressed it dozens of times elsewhere (apologising and saying it was unequivocally wrong.) When people bring it up every time he talks about antisemitism, it does seem - as he says - that people don't want apologies so much as they want silence.
@@simonthomas1672 I think it's understandable that people bring it up, and if he covered it in the book that's good. It should be part of the whole discussion, not ignored. We can all learn from it.
He apologises face to face to the person he dressed up as on the documentary, I don't think he needs to talk about it every time, he's admitted it was stupid but it unfortunately wasn't that unusual for the time.
I really loved Simon Amstell's Grandma's House as a show that felt about Jewish experiences in the UK but not filtered. For me it felt so true.
Amazing program😁 super interesting to learn about the Jewish identity. I live in Poland where the memory of the holocaust is very much present in our reality but I feel like we dont have the language to talk about Jews apart of that moment in history. We don’t remember the past where Jews were part of the society and now there are very few living in the country. Also the ones who stayed after the WW II were hiding their identity. Its so important to have those conersations for the minority population itself but also for the visibility, for others to be aware of the point of view of the minority. Its just a few of my thoughts but its been a long comment so ill just finish by saying- Hannah, you’re officially my favourite internet Jew😊
The Jewish community is very small in New Zealand but they did get their own sitcom this year! It's called Kid Sister and it's great, recommend if you can access it
loved this video. I have a sociology degree and we spoke a lot about representation and minorities and racism and all those other buzz words. I’ve studied sociology for 6 years and not once has the Jewish identity been mentioned.
Good
David’s book was an interesting read and this was a fascinating interview. Although still waiting for your long awaited interview with Emma Watson.
32:39 I was constantly googling things while watching the show unorthodox because there were so many practices and references that were not explained in any way because they were just part of the character’s daily life/known ceremonies. Curious how that show was accepted and if the actors/crew were Jewish.
The main character is played by Shira Haas, an award winning Israeli Jewish actress. People had a lot of mixed feelings about it, but from what I know, most if not all of the Jewish characters were played by Jews.
21:30 aww, that's sweet. Can you share the parts of the nursery rhyme you know?
part two please!
Oh yeah, the bit about burying the dish. I feel like there's variation in country to country on how common things are or how things are talked about, even within the community. Its been interesting hearing about the British Jewish community versus the US and Israeli version I'm familiar with.
I'm thankful that other commenters here alerted me to David Baddiel's anti-Blackness, and I hope you will address this, Hannah.
She seems to have completely ignored any comments mentioning it!
Jews can shit on Blacks anytime, Jews call Blacks their Golems anyway
I’ve just looked-up David as I’ve seen his tweets before but don’t know that much about him. Found myself going down a rabbit hole and learning about how David performed in blackface mocking a black footballer, Jason Lee and took him 20 or so years to apologise. I don’t want to start a whole argument about whether blackface is wrong and I’m sure if we looked into the past of many other people we’d find things we wouldn’t like. But just wanted to share as i felt shocked and hurt when I saw it. I’m very glad he’s apologised for it though.
Malcolm X warned us about these people, white liberals
He only apologised because he was making a TV series and didn't initially even apologise to Jason Lee personally
Yes, and from listening to this I don't think he has a very nuanced view of race or other minorities, outside his own experience. It makes me a bit uncomfortable.
Mentioning the show where he did blackface and not mentioning that... Followed by going back to programmes that don't show Jewishness.
I'd love a sitcom with Jewish characters though! 10/10.
@Caitlin Quinn There are loads of Jewish sitcoms, Seinfeld, The Goldbergs, Horowitz from Big Bang theory. Hell the beastie boys are Jewish
Ofcourse blackface is wrong! There's no argument needed.
I’m giving this video a watch (and stating for the record that I’m a white Jew myself) to be clear that I have seen it and I still feel the same way about your choices of book and guest for this video. Though firstly, I think for me the point about ‘the Y word’ (and I’d argue ‘the K word’ as well, both ‘K words’ that can be used to describe Jewish people) more widely, and not just in the context of football, is that they’re not in my view more acceptable to say off the bat, with no further context or nuance. I think that comes from the fact that they’re not as well known more broadly as slurs or as words at all due to a historic ignorance, wilful or not, surrounding Jewish people and antisemitism. I haven’t given the book a thorough enough read to know if that’s an argument being made there, so that’s on me, but for the reasons below I don’t want to platform the book, and so this is a comment more on what’s been expressed in the video.
But most importantly, I would like to echo the concerns of other people in these comments about Mr Baddiel’s history of racist minstrelsy (Blackface) for which he only apologised two and a half decades later, and the issues I take with his minimisation (in this video and in Jews Don’t Count) of anti-Blackness/other forms of racism and Islamophobia being swept under the carpet/dismissed and minimised in progressive spaces. It’s not only us - progressive spaces are rife with anti-Black racism and other racism along with antisemitism, and all of those forms of racial and ethnic bigotry are ignored (most heavily racism/antisemitism towards BIPOC).
I am reflecting on it and haven't fully unpacked my opinion, but I feel there is some room for nuance on people talking about their personal experiences with bigotry when they themselves have a history of harmful bigotry towards other marginalized communities. A lot of "progressive" folks are racist, antisemitic, Islamophobic, feed the Christian hegemony, are homophobic, etc, but probably could have great conversations to increase understanding across differences.
Thank you for this great comment.
@@spacemanspromise I don’t disagree - after all, as an example, any of us who are white and marginalised in other ways have inevitably absorbed racism to a greater or lesser degree from the way society is structured and what we’re taught interpersonally, and it’s on all of us to unlearn that. I don’t think any of us are disqualified from speaking about the ways in which we’re marginalised.
But I personally think that a line should be drawn in terms of publicly platforming and praising someone with such a blatantly racist history, and whose argument in the video/book/documentary revolves around what I see as a racist premise. Like, it’s literally platforming the racist argument and persuading people that that’s an acceptable thing to be saying, and imo, the way this argument frames the unique nature of antisemitism is really not it. Yes, leftist spaces are often deeply antisemitic and that’s often not dealt with, but they’re often deeply anti-Black/anti-Indigenous/racist/islamophobic etc. too and that’s also very often not dealt with.
Also, the video strays into broad generalisations beyond the remit of it being ostensibly about leftist spaces. It starts to generalise about forms of bigotry and make some statements that are blatantly untrue - how is Mr Baddiel seriously going to suggest that other forms of racism are always dealt with or condemned or seen as unacceptable in leftist spaces?! I’m genuinely in disbelief at the suggestion, as someone who’s much younger than him and has spent a decade or more in leftist spaces, which is certainly less than he has if he frequents those spaces.
I dunno, I just think platforming an argument that to me is actually quite racist is not a great call on Hannah’s part, given that she’s working to be an antiracist ally as we all should be as white Jews. Doesn’t feel very antiracist to amplify those voices and those perspectives when there are plenty of other Jewish people (including Jews of Colour) talking about the same thing but without a central tenet of the argument being racism.
I think this entire conversation would have been far more wonderful if he wasn't the person bringing it. Not to blame the messenger but he's completely full of it. This conversation comes directly from the so called antisemitism crisis in the British labour party and the alleged minimisation of antisemitism therein. But that was unsubstantiated and not born out by evidence given (Forde report and Aljazeera documentary have made this clear). Growing from that and from this guy, Mr Blackface Baddiel is just ridiculous. Plenty more qualified and genuinely anti-racist Jewish people to have this conversation with. He's spent ages and ages excusing racism against everyone else but his antiracist awakening was Jeremy Corbyn being pro-palestinian and listening to the tabloids do propaganda for 5 years straight. Pfft.
@@trunkofmymind Baddiel isn't even close to left wing. That's the joke. He's a TV liberal and his claims about the left are highly mendacious given both his own politics and the current political context in the UK. We can deal with antisemitism on the left without fake lefties like him tarring the whole movement with his generalisations. He's only notices the racism when it's against him and he's now decided that "Jews don't count." It's possible, but he doesn't have the political or academic chops to prove the truth of the statement beyond his own blinkered view.
Paused at 1:47 to go listen to the book before I finish the video - I love when authors read their own books😍
This is a great video.
Really interesting, thank you