RV FRAME FLEX Repairs // Have they LASTED?!?!? 😳
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- #1StrangeAdventure #RVLiving #RVRepairs
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In today's video, we're jumping ahead to the Florida RV Supershow, but not just to showcase the typical RVs you might have already come across. Nope, that's reserved for later. 😉 Our focus today is on providing you with an update on our rig and whether the repairs have stood the test of time.
As some of you may recall, we faced substantial damage to our RV back in September, leading us to drop off our rig at Grand Design RV in Elkhart. They had it for six weeks, diligently addressing the issues. Fortunately, we managed to retrieve it and hit the road again. With many of you expressing curiosity about how everything is holding up, we thought it fitting to share this video update.
If you have any questions, feel free to let us know. We appreciate the concern and support! 💚 Thank you all!
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Hi, we're the Strange family (Harold, Cindy, Makayla & Nick). In our videos we take you along on our adventures. We have sold or stored almost everything and are now full-time RVers. This isn't just about "RV Life", it's about LIFE! The RV is our home but experiencing new locations, making memories and enjoying family time is what it is all about. If you are like us and enjoy those aspects of life, please consider joining the community. Subscribe, like, comment and share. It helps! Until the next STRANGE adventure, keep making your own!
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Folks should quit calling it "frame flex" and call it what it really is, frame fail.
I hear what you're saying but it could have been a lot worse if the frame had completely failed, especially while in transit.
Did I miss it? I didn't see any frame repairs. There was some talk about spring shackles and wet bolts then the rest of the video was about how the interior was redecorated.....
Flexing , and broken welds/cracked frame are two different things for sure.
Frame Flex happens because of inferior steel. Thin frames flex and that is why tons of big trucks and tractors have double or triple frames. These fifth wheel trailers are too heavy for the frames speced out by the trailer manufacturers. The frame manufacturer gets the specs and build the frame and tells the trailer manufacturer the weight limitations. So with the combination of light metal and too much weight causes the frame to actually twist and flex. I will never buy a fifth wheel camper because of this happening to lots of people. Just look at the traveling channels on CZcams.
@@1StrangeAdventureit literally did fail.
Paving New Paths just made a video about this also, very interesting and scary. Makes me not want to part with my 2011 Cougar anymore for a newer GD. Great Video and so informative!
Thankfully ours is fixed and feels better than new. We still love our GDRV. ☺️
Don't. run away from GD. "Second chance" fix shouldn't get GD any credit for anything
This is another reason why Brinkley is becoming so popular. They 100% warranty for full-time living. I've been to the Brinkley G3500 factory tour, and I can tell you plainly that the frame is being built the right way.
It's unfortunate that so many RVs are suffering frame issues and not just GD. CZcamsrs are bringing this to light and hopefully much needed awareness.
I suppose you took your insurance claim and paid them on the backend for not doing what they should’ve engineered right in the first place. It’s pretty bad when you can sell $120,000 camper and then ask for money on the back end to fix up what they didn’t engineer, right
@@BuellXB12SDucati1198And you pay a lot more for it. CZcams is pushing the Brinkley like they did the Grand Design. Now look what happened. Only time will tell if Brinkley is any good. Also Brinkley was started by former G.D. employees they left because they were bought out by Winnebago. Nothing new just like and corporate buy out.
Great update video. Thanks for coming to Universal and hanging out with us, Cindy, and Nick. We had a great time. Safe travels heading west this year. Can't wait for the 1strangegathering!!!
Lot of other campers are not getting there stuff fixed
Thanks for the update!
Appreciate the update. I’ve been patiently waiting for it. 😉
Good to hear that it's doing well!! Thanks for the update!
No problem 👍
Great to see and hear it’s holding up! Enjoy Sunshine!
Thanks, you too!
Thank you so much for the update. Our 395 is heading back to GD for repair for the same issue soon. They will be transporting it on a flatbed. This video update certainly gave us some peace of mind that things will be better…eventually
Glad it worked out. For me, Grand Design is off the list for future RV's. I'm not interested in risking my hard earned money with their products.
Lots of them use the same frames. it's more important how they back their products to us.
@1StrangeAdventure I felt good about GD and I'm sure our 21 momentum is going to have these issues in the future, then after seeing how they've handled "Paving new Paths" I'm very concerned about the whole frame flex and GD taking care of us when it happens.
My first ever modification was the curt flex air pin box straight from the dealership to cushion the rv going down the road. I also added shocks to the fifth wheel as well for the same reason. 4 years later i have no issues. Fingers crossed
After all the major problems you have had, its really good to see some successful repairs from GD. Glad its holding up! I do enjoy your videos. You two are so real and communicate well, plus you are fun too! Safe travels.
Awe thanks!!! We appreciate the support and kind words 😊
Great meeting you guys at the Tampa Show. The challenge of RV life is keeping these rigs moving!!
Great seeing you at the show!!!
Great to see you as well!
It was good to catch up! Glad everything is working out.
Thank you so much!
Glad to see things are working out. I’m also happy to see you are not falling into the pit of negativity. Keep the positive vibes, safe travels and I’m sure we will see you again soon.
Always stay positive. ☺️
Thank you for sharing. ✌️😃
It was so nice meeting you guys at the Talona Ridge booth. Happy and safe travels😊
Great meeting you!!! Same to you!
Paving New Path live full time in their Grand Design and are getting the run around for their frame flex issue...so glad your issue is fixed
They did what they were asked to do to get it fixed. Paving New Paths doesn’t want to do that.And they did buy it used and are out of warranty.
So if I go purchase a used F350 and know it has no warranty, I should get mad at Ford and expect them to fix it when something breaks? LMFAO!!
@@rexchilders2265 Yes. They are called factory recalls. When a known safety issue is found, like all the Takata airbags a few years ago.
A structural flaw due to poor design and could endanger passengers should not be subject to a limited warranty period regardless if your bought it new or second hand. I suspect that GD and other manufacturers cherry pick what’s in their best interest when they choose to fix or deny the repair and that shouldn’t be.
@tonybenton728 PNP is also 900 miles from Elkhart and there is no guarantee that their rig will make it there, or is GDRV will help make things right, or… and all for the reasonable price of $16K. Keep in mind they’ve also had to replace the roof on a rig that was about a year old. Second owner or not, GDRV is not standing behind their products. That’s pretty shameful IMHO. These are pretty major design flaws.
Glad everything was taken care of for you. Travel safe!
Thanks!
Great video! 👍
Hope it all holds up.for you guys! BTW, love Talona Ridge. Very nice sites and the little town has just enough to enjoy the stay
Good update.
Thanks!
Thanks for the update! We also are going into GD, but I don’t think we are that bad as they are thinking one week for the repairs.
It was a great Tampa show, glad I could give you a quick Point and “GREAT CHANNEL “ comment 😂. We were in a rush to get home for wife to get to work. 🤷♂️. Like I said great channel.
I enjoyed this video I love y’all and stay safe love and prayers
I been in the R V repair business for 45 years. I have repaired pin box flex in the past. Replace that pin box with the Reese 5TH Airborne pin box. I have one on my fifth wheel and I could tell a difference in the ride and also items in the pantry and refrigerator did not move much. The air bag in the pin box does a great job of absorbing shock from the road. I have also advised my customers not to buy sumo springs. Let the springs do what springs are design to do.
The Reese goose box only goes to 20,000 lbs ! Their rig is 21,000 lbs.
New channel here! We enjoy watching and learning from you guys! We hope to go Full Time soon!
Awesome! Thank you!
Looks great the way it is to Me.
Glad to hear GD worked with you. Many GD owners on You Tube and forums are reporting a lot of issues with frame flex / broken frame issues and not experiencing good customer service support. These reports make one wonder what's going on with GD spec'ed trailer frames made by Lippert ? I have pulled GD off my short list for now given all the recent reports of frame issues. I do agree with GD, the Summo springs add a direct stress point to the frame above it and doesn't allow leaf springs the opportunity for dampen the stresses.
We were
told by GD our floor flex and screws popping through the floor is normal wear and tear. I have a feeling that because they were CZcams influencers they were fixed. They do not want negativity spread.
It also looks suspicious coming out with this positive gd video right after paving new paths . Makes ya wonder.
Sumo springs are supporting the same part of the frame that the shackles are welded too.
It makes zero sense thst they would contribute to added stress, instead it dampens the stress and spreads it out across more components of the frame, which is a good thing.
Totally disagree with the comment regarding Sumo springs.
@@sreed3203 Imagine your vehicle having a well known issue and losing it for 6 weeks... Who in their right mind would be happy with this arrangement? Now try losing your home on wheels for 6 weeks because of a well known manufacturers defect that afte several years has yet to be properly addressed. I know no one that would be happy about this even if the end result was good. I fear "somebody" just doesnt want to give GD the heat and smoke they most certainly deserve.
Based on 2 years of watching non stop RV videos what I've learned is to AVOID AT ALL COST: Thor, Jayco, Winnebago, and Grand Design! Avoid buying new if I can, buy used BEFORE 2020.
You need to install the moride independent suspension to get the best ride for your fithwheel
Hi guys, it was great seeing you at TTO and our evening with “Our Road Less Traveled” at their new East to West Ahara. We would have loved to spend more time getting to know you but did not want to intrude.
Anyway, as you know we also have what should be called frame failure on our 2022 Momentum 395ms-r. M question is, did Grand Design let you see the work they performed or was it covered up before you could inspect it? Did you see any of the welds? Paving New Paths just released an updated video on their frame failure and it sounds like GD is handling their case very badly,like My Bucket List Day. I am less than positive about whether they actually fix this problem correctly. We reposted their video on our Facebook for all to see. -Pete
Hopefully you are good to go. Fingers crossed
Hope so!
Can you give more details about the lag bolts? Where the carpet is removed in the bedroom?? BTW- I'm having frame flex in my 350G.
We been learning and shopping for our Rv for two years now. Been to 3 shows and decided on GD 399th for our family and dog. But after this frame flex issue popping up we are petrified to order one in March. Our concern GD not reinforcing what needs to be addressed. To prevent the known issues wail new units being built. We was so excited about GD but this issue has hurt our confidence in GD😢. Do we buy a new home knowing it is weak and may fall apart. Or look again at class A again and forget GD.
Binkley is a good Manufacturer.
Get a hold of paving new paths they have the same problem and wonder what to do
How has al the additional reinforcing affected the trailers GVW and CCC of the trailer? Did GD add new stickers tomthe vehicls?
Has Grand Design done anything to keep this from happening on the newer units being sold ?
Check out “down sizing makes cents. See what the Sumo springs did to their frame.
We saw it! Crazy...
They dropped their frame in a ditch to so that could of bent their frame too
I saw you at the show and was going to ask but you were talking with a couple people and didn’t want to interrupt
Love how everyone calls it frame flex. It is cracked frames. Tons of issues. Thanks
What about Electric Air shocks for The Fifthwheel
Wow
I am 100% confident that I havent had a broken leaf spring thanks to the sumo springs. But what do I know.
🤷♂️
Agreed. The Sumo springs comment from GD makes no sense.
In the even of a failed leaf spring, one video showed it was a huge saver.
Very interesting video, thanks for providing the status. If your rig is from 2021 and the frame failure was covered under the 3 year structural warranty, how long does the warranty on the rig last after the repair? Is there extra warranty on the repaired rig now? Is their a change of the insurance status might the rig break again after the original warranty ends?
Fantastic question
Have U Purchased the hassle free Warranty with Wholesalers warranty insurance any where in the US& Canada no waiting time,Mobile Technician included.
So I’ve been seeing GD is fixing some customers and not Paving New Paths.
So were you covered under warranty or had to pay out of pocket for repairs? Is GD going to investigate these defects in the frame? Is there going to be a change in the manufacturing process (GD or frame)? Sorry for all the questions but we have been planning and pricing for a Solitude and after reading about Frame Flex or Frame Failure, our plans are now on hold. Please respond to my questions.. Thank you in advance.....
Bad welds will fail. Needs to be a Tee Shirt. Most of the welds on our Momentum look like a 3rd grader did it.
In your conversations with GD did they say anything about the problem being addressed / fixed with current models?
They did not specifically mention it but I haven't seen anyone posting about the newer models either. That's not to say it's not happening... just haven't heard of it.
Do you have any pictures of the actual frame failure? Great video but at the beginning of your video I saw panels off and for a second thought we actually see where the frame broke. That would be educational and give us a cut to the chase place to look.
Another guy popped up on my CZcams feed that actually showed the broken frame, the process of fixing and the place in Elkhart that has fixing this issue down to a science. Great video.
A place called Affinity just outside Elkhart IN.
His rig was an Alliance 5th wheel.
Did all of the owners reporting frame flex have Sumo Springs or modified suspensions? Were those self instaaled / installed by one dealer chain?
Have not seen this question addressed. Great question!!!!!
We’re so glad your rig is fixed!
Does Nick love his desk/workstation setup?
how new is your rig paving new paths is having frame flex and can you reach out to them
Ours is a 2021
That Waggle is all good but what happens if you’re gone and your dogs are at the RV, and the RV park WiFi goes out then what? And your A/C goes out or Heater and you can’t monitor it because you have no WiFi.
The waggle has its own service through Verizon. It does not rely on WiFi. You would be able to still monitor your pets as long as Verizon service was available in that area.
Is there a correlation between flex issues and length of rig? It seems to be the longer rigs that have this issue that I can tell. Also, what size of i beam goes down the length of the rig? Alliance has a larger one then a smaller one welded to it and Brinkley has one good sized one the entire length (3100). I can’t remember which numbers they were.
Yes there is Elizabeth!!
IMO, These longer coaches have a longer distance between the kingpin and the axles (the fulcrum point) so there is more of a “moment,” or the vertical forces causing the frame flex.
A good example would be going over a long bridge and encountering the expansion joints. Everyone has experienced this, but when towing this can be very uncomfortable, because the truck is going up and the coach is coming down. The magnitude of these forces or torque generated is significant and IMO the leading cause of the frame flex.
The frame flex leads to frame failure. GD engineers designed and engineered the frames and handed over the specs to Lippert and they simply followed the directions.
These frames that are common on most of your mass produced fifth wheel manufacturers are not designed and engineered sufficiently for the harsh road conditions subjected to…built to minimum standards😕. Other factors that contribute to this is the quality of the steel, number of gussets and outriggers, and the sub-par welds.
On the more well built 5vers such as DRV, Luxe, and New Horizons, they typically have a thicker sized forged steel and not stamped due to being heavier.
Most of the flex in a 5ver occurs around the slide outs and to prevent/mitigate this outriggers are doubled up around the slide outs. This significantly increases the frames durability and reduces flex.
Further, the upper deck portion and pin box area, a wide box steel frame is used to reinforce this area. It is four sided steel and it is more robust than the typical C-channel or I-beam used by most of your cookie cutter RV manufacturers. Just my 2 cents.
There are quite a few DRV 5th wheels, in our group, going through the same frame issues as this one@@k-mparker
So if they replaced the cabinets why are they still broken and cracked?
How old is your rig? Did you buy it new or used? Were the temporary repairs (here in Pensacola) by GD and the other work in Elkhardt at the GD factory covered by warranty?
Great questions. We bought our rig new and it’s a 2021. All work has been covered by the 3 year structural warranty.
As a chassis engineer, automotive I would agree with GD with regards in removing the sumo springs, they are basically an oversize bump stop. With any leaf spring suspension they need the freedom of travel sumosprings reduces the freedom , if not the loads will go somewhere else along the chassis, that's not a good thing.
sounds like you might be a chassis engineer for Grand Design. Your professional opinion is a ***12 inch*** I beam will flex because of the addition of sumo springs? Why doesn't the same trouble occur where the springs mount to the frame?
@@John5iveSo what is your profession ?
@TonyBenton728 I see your point, I should not have made the smart-ass comment, the OP doesn't deserve that. I am NOT a chassis engineer. Not sure how my profession matters. It shouldn't preclude me from commenting. Logic says a frame constructed with a 12 inch steel i-beam shouldn't flex enough to break welds, otherwise the entire RV would fall apart.
@@John5ive, What about 'Automotive' chassis engineer, you did not get? No I'm an engineer for the RV industry. Automotive and the RV industry are totally different. Did I say that sumosprings caused this issue? I did not.
@@John5ive We had a Riverstone Legacy ! They an all steel box frame built by Lippert. The manufacturer specifies how they want the frames built. They don’t have the flex frame issues like these and other rig’s built with thin steel and aluminum. They are built to save weight and get to a certain price point. Yes you are entitled to your opinion me included.
I have to pass on grand design now going to take a chance on different manufacturer
Do you think the lippert frames are not beefy enough? We have a BAL frame, have you heard anything on them to look for?
There are so many variables it would be impossible to really figure out where the breakdown occurred. Sorry, haven't heard anything about those frames.
@@1StrangeAdventure Thank you for the comment! Safe travels guys!
Thanks. Same to you!
Lippert manufactures the components to the manufacturers specification. However, a frame manufacturer should not be afraid of losing business by saying no when a design appears to be questionable. But, this issue is not just a GD issue, many manufacturers are having cracking issues.
I hav a Bal frame on my trailer and it is all riveted together. Far superior design to the welded lippert.
Seems weird that @SwitchItUp had the same issue and video but somehow theirs got fixed.
Ours was fixed as well!
Can we see the fifth wheel next to you that says one flag, one nation? It looks cool.
That’s the United States Honor Flag RV. Amazing cause, amazing people. Check them out. 🇺🇸
@@1StrangeAdventure definitely will check them out. I am a veteran
Do Northwoods manufacturing arctic fox fifth wheel frames ever flex and fail?
Great question! I'm not sure but would love to research it.
So hears the deal.
Rv manufacturers such as Grand Design no about the FRAME FLEX
They make money off of it. They charge for repairs. Some are covered by insurance. Either way the industry has learned to make money off frame flex. That’s why they don’t correct their builds. It intentionally engineered to fail beyond the warranty period
You are down the street from me now
Are u all ambassadors for gd? What did it cost for them to fix it?
We do are not ambassadors or "influencers" for GDRV. Just a couple who happens to love their home and makes videos for CZcams. The repairs were covered under the 3 year structural warranty.
#don't be a tom
Did you have to pay anything to get it fixed?
It was covered under the structural warranty
Unbelievable
I would have taken the rig back to GD and told them to stick it. I'm learning GD is garbage.
Do you know (or could you ask) if Grand Design is applying what they're learning in these failures to the new units? We just got our 2024 415 and would be devastated if this occurred.
We haven't had the opportunity to speak with them and don't have regular connections with them since we are not affiliates. if we get the chance, we will ask.
@@1StrangeAdventure thank you for your response.
It's frame flex
Its really a bit too early to say the fixes have held up. How many miles have you traveled? How about an update when you have 10,000 or more miles after the repairs.
We've traveled quite a bit so far but would be happy to provide updates as we move further down the road.
One of my kids is a structural engineer specializing in welding metals. SHES SEEN ALL THE VIDEOS FROM GD owners on YT. STOP CALLING IT FRAME FLEX. ITS STRUCTURAL FAILURE.
You guys should not have to worry about nothing
My 12 year old could have told them not to put that sewer pipe in front of that grease fitting. Terrible design and shockingly passed GD R&D.
If you are a you tuber they fix them except the used ones never buy grand design
At this point, you could not GIVE me a Grand Design Toyhauler. Too many videos of GD's with Frame Flex. They are destined to a Class Action Lawsuit for their JUNK products that put their consuumers at HUGE RISKS.
"Sumo springs are the issue" - that's a bunch of bull$%&t. Watched Brinkley video on how they design and tested their frames to work with Sumo springs as the goal is to have the frame take all the shocks/shakes while the coach rides on the suspension. Will never consider a GD 5th wheel............
lots of opinions on the matter. not sure which way to go so we removed them to be safe.
It is not FRAME FLEX, ITS FRAME FAILURE.
Think my next toyhauler is gonna be a gooseneck horse trailer with living quarters in it
Would never buy a grand design
Is it the poor engineering or poor quality steel
So much to say...nobody probably wants to read it all. The fact that body paint didnt line up after reassembly is a clear sign it was crooked and messed up from day one. This video is by no means a positive advertisement for Gran Design. I have a 2023 that I have towed 7500 miles and ALREADY those lags are backing out. Give it time, your new larger lags will back out. Stupid design that is doomed to fail.
I’m not sure it was off the beginning with only that the new supports didn’t allow the nose cap to go back on exactly the same. I’m glad they took the time to address the paint. It’s not a positive but it’s also not a knock on them. Just is what it is. We are not affiliated in any way just love our rig and hope that we are past all this. Hope you have a good evening!
@@1StrangeAdventure Perhaps they will begin building them all this way then since yours has been road tested and has held up. Still don't understand though how the nose is on different...
Stop saying frame flex. Frames are solid these frames are breaking due to overload or improper engineering
You spend all that money and you go on you tube
Folks should not be putting life savings in overpriced low quality junk.
we have enjoyed our RV. yes, it has had issues, but the memories are priceless.
Can you STOP calling it frame flex? That is obviously a term Grand Design came up with. It's a BROKEN frame.
It’s a term that the manufacturer of frame uses to help diagnose the issue. Thanks
@@1StrangeAdventure really? Does that make a difference? It's a broken frame and you are encouraging their false terms to what the actual problem is.
Wow