You know it as well as I am but thee conversation was never really had. Messi has been the greatest since he was about 21 years of age. The accolades just came later.
"Cristiano is a great player, but those who say he is better than Messi don't know anything about football, or they say it in bad faith," Marco Van Basten
In India Ronaldo is weirdly famous among kids even though they didn't watch a single game of him. And Messi is more famous in South India where there is so much craze of football.
Bruh all of you are overrating Messi too much, Messi is not a better footballer then Ronaldo, Ronaldo can do everything Messi can do and the opposite for messi, Messi didn't even play well with psg he was trash in 2021 how he's better than Ronaldo?? Any team Ronaldo plays with ( good or bad) he become the savior of them, he can play in any tactic and with different styles and in any club, seriously I don't know how people still thinks that Messi is better
@@Ali-ov6my Fid you even watch the video? It's pretty straightforward, you're just delusional. And ronaldo played for literally the best teams in their respective leagues, man un, real madrid and juventus? All at the top of the table when ronaldo joined them.
in short, Messi in his weakest season was above Ronaldo and the rest of course🤣 As a Manchester United fan, I am 100% that Messi is at a completely different level compared to the rest.
@@thundershield9102 bale once said Ronaldo, rooney hates Ronaldo, Luka said Ronaldo, I don't know what di Maria said, but who cares??? even if the whole world said that Messi is better, from what I saw in their career I know that Ronaldo is a better player, before they left spain they were equal, sometimes Ronaldo was better and sometimes Messi was better, after they left spain I saw the truth, Messi is a Barcelona player, he can't do it outside of Barca
Messi is the goat for those who know football it was never a debate but for those in denial 2022 was when the debate brutally ended with Messi lifting the world cup. Whilst the self proclaimed goat was benched for club and country. 🤣Cristiano is one of the best but if any one thinks he is close to Messi they have attained and solidified clueless casual status. When you make WORLD CLASS (never forget) defenders look clueless, while scoring 800+ and having 300+ assists and every major trophy in the sport consistently throughout your nearly 2 decade career, you are the EASILY the GOAT. Ex players, managers, pundits and neutral football fans knows Messi is the best even casuals saw the light
Goat of paidcelona AKA negreira merchant 😂😂😂😂 Without it he's nothing 🤣🤣🤣 Flopped in psg with 0 g/a in KO stage and 0 domestic cup with psg 🤣🤣 Now joined 63rd ranked league MLS inter miami only at 35 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Goat of 8-2, 7-0, 6-0, 5-1, 4-3 against Hillal B team 🐖🐖🤣🤣 Bottled 4 finals with star stacked Argentina team 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Overrated fraud, cry moooooore 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤏🧠🐖🐖🐖
just regarding the removal of penalties: he only does it because penalties do inflate numbers, open play goals are naturally more difficult to score. For example right now in the premier league: ollie watkins is on 19 league goals with 0 penalties, where as cole palmer is on 20 goals with 9 penalties. I would argue that watkins number is more impressive due to 80% of penalties being scored across all players.
Well I think theer are exceptions to that. For example, scoring a penalty in a WC knockout match is probably the most stress inducing thing in football. If you miss, it will haunt you forever. Comparatively, scoring a tap-in is probably easier in general.
@@celeschan90 Nah, a pen is still easier because you've got time to react and prepare. Pressure applies to any close range goal, whether it's a pen or tapin
@@user-783hhss7w2oifhe I disagree. Pressure of winning a league match against for example a bottom team by 5-0 instead of 6-0 when missing the tap in is very different from the pressure of being the reason your country are out of the WC for the next 4 years. Roberto Baggio recently said that not a day goes by that he doesn't think of his missed penalty in the 1994 final. We wouldn't have people missing the goal completely if having time to prepare and react is just a positive. It also gives them time to process all the things that can make them more nervous, compared to a split second decision.
@@celeschan90not all goals are created equal (tapins) and even among penalties, not all are equal. That about sums up your point. Each one counts the same to a game, but when comparing players, i agree with your approach
Maradona's level of football at his peak is faaaar better than any other player except for Messi imo, and some people don't think even Lio reached that level, it wasn't only at world cups but also what he did at Napoli is insanely impressive, one of the most incredible things I've ever seen a player do, the impact he had on that team, the best players in the world played in the serie A at that time and he took one of the worst sides on that league and gave them their first taste of glory, he's a God at Napoles still, that's why many people consider him the best, his peak level. To me top 3 is Messi, Maradona, Pelé, the holy trinity of football
Sadly that’s Maradona’s greatest accomplishment since he was not consistent, outside of the World Cup. In his resume there isn’t even a copa America which Argentina have like 15 or we see 0 champions or libertadores. Which brings the question, why Ronaldinho it’s not seen in the same light or above.
Thats exactly what i say to corey, men... maradona pick (napoli) the last place in the ligue and won ligues cups, Europa league... (the best ligue in that moment)
"Ronaldo started his career in a tougher league, the premier league" This... just isn't exactly true. The Premier League is better NOW, yes, but at the time Messi started his career in Barcelona, La Liga was, momentary though it was, the most highly regarded league in the world. The Premier League actually has had a lot of ups and downs because the British teams have a tendency to flipflop on how much they care about international titles, leading to times where they had extremely poor showings on international competitions and where they actually lost a bunch of prestige on top of actually dropping in level because they were only playing each other and not actually matching up against the world's best. Re: Penalty Goals: Penalty goals are taken away because they are, on average, considerably easier to score... and they're also sort of infamously a subject of debate and contention because, well, one of the most well known ways for a ref to help a team win is granting them a bullshit penalty. This is why people will call him "Penaldo", because he scores so many penalties. Also, some may argue that Real Madrid is also notably more prone to... referee aid, so to speak, being the richer, more powerful, more prestigious and more media-shielded club from the biggest two in La Liga. Re: Impact on Team: One of the most notable displays of how a player affects their team's effectiveness is... well, how they played in the last World Cup. Argentina's Players famously were all united for one, single and specific goal through all the world cup: Everyone wanted Messi to win and lift that cup. Each and every single one of them played for the singular purpose of having the GOAT that some of them had grown up admiring be crowned as world champion. Of course they all also wanted to themselves be World Champions, but really, the most important thing was that they did it with Messi. Portugal, perhaps infamously, performed better with Ronaldo off the pitch. Now, there's debate whether this is the Coach's fault, and some of his fans would argue his team was just jealous, and the more conspiration-oriented of them would even try to convince you that somehow FIFA made them say that or do that so Messi would win because that's easier than admitting that Ronaldo is just plain too old to continue performing at his old level. But the reality of the matter is, he was actively causing problems for Portugal's team chemistry and perhaps might not have even been brought into the team if it wasn't for his immense fame. Re: Eye Test When he talks about Ronaldo hurting in the play, what he means is that Ronaldo has a tendency to be very goal focused and sometimes even selfish. Even if he had a great pass opportunity he wouldn't take it and attempt to score instead, because what he wanted was to be the one who scored, while comparing it to Messi, whose philosophy was "I don't care who scores, my objective is that the ball goes in regardless of who puts it there", which is why Messi is willing to do stuff like the penalty assist. Also funny about the Maradona thing: Maradona had considerably worse opportunities, training and nutrition than Messi or Ronaldo did. The video itself, when talking about the eye test, spoke about how you can't put statistics on what the players actually do on the pitch, and that's kind of the problem here. Because Maradona was an extremely brilliant star that never had a superteam backing him up. If you compare Maradona's world cup winning Argentina to Messi's World Cup Winning Argentina there's just no comparison, some old people will try to argue but they'd just flatly be wrong, current Argentina is the best it's ever been, and is freaking monstrous in comparison to the 2 world cup winning teams. And it's not just because of the infinitely better training, nutrition and health managing they have, it's also about the level of competition they are exposed to, as the level of the european leagues that almost the entirety of the Argentinian squad plays in has increased massively as well. Maradona was a humanoid hunk of bullshit that should never have been able to do the insane things he did. If he'd had the support that Ronaldo and Messi had, and that's sort of part of the reason for his inconsistency. He never had proper support, and in fact, the people who should've supported and helped him only helped him slip down the slippery slope of vice and excess. TL;DR on Maradona: If he played today, and not back then, it's entirely possible that Argentina would have 4 or even 5 stars and not 3. The thing about this video is that it sort of... really drops the ball specifically with regards to Maradona, literally bringing up why Statistics aren't everything, then immediately claiming statistics are everything to claim Maradona ain't shit. Also an important metric: The tactic to stop Maradona was to rely on incredibly poor referee'ing to foul him as much as possible. One of the reasons he was so inconsistent was that, well, the tactic to injure the fuck out of him to try to stop him was used universally and despite his tenacity... it was used so much because it worked, they would beat the shit out of him until he couldn't do his Maradona bullshit on the pitch anymore. Football used to be a lot more violent in the past. Same happened to Pelé but he had better teammates to fall back on than Maradona did, and yes, I say this as much as it hurts to admit that Brasil was better than Argentina for a long time.
Tbh.. The debate was already over when messi took Argentina to two finals (copa and worldcup) Which they lost both ofcourse.. Meanwhile cr7 didn't even play in the final which portugal won the euros.
The guy disrespected Maradona 😔 man sure his stats are less but he was a Magical Player , his gameplay was too like Messi totally out of this world , Pele was more like a Statistics player , Cristiano too is like a Statistics player , But Messi is definitely The GOAT both as a Magical and Statistics Player .
If we talk all Maradona’s bad stuff out of the picture like doping and drugs, we are still with a magical player that was not consistent, his career it’s not as consistent compared to all the other greats. If I say that frank becken did more in his career and should be above I am sure I ll get a million hates, yet still true that frank becken was a menace.
@@CoreyMcKinneyFC I generally love the eye test, and I agree with people who say that Ronaldo at Man U was much better on the eye test. But injuries kinda forced him to change style when he went to Madrid, so his stats went up but the eye-test went down. Messi has pretty much had the same mindset since a teenager, and only got better with time. The stats are just the icing on the cake.
@@raggmedia Cristiano was a showboat in United. Very quick feet and skillful, but I personally don't like showboating so it is a matter of taste. Also, It wasn't injuries that made him change his style (he was already quite different before his 2014 knee injury). The reason why Cristiano became more of a goalscorer is very simple, he saw Messi starting to score ridiculous amount of goals and he became obsessed with scoring at the cost of less prominent skills.
The eye test is also dependent on your football knowledge, for example an average Joe may be amazed by fancy step-overs and tricks that didn’t even progress the play past a defender, while a trained eye can see & be impressed by finer details such as the correlation between small pockets of spaces, simple yet ingenious touches & shrewd split-second decision making, something which the average Joe is unlikely to see. In that regard, Messi is miles ahead of Ronaldo.
The thing with free throws is that you have to win your own free throws to make them. It takes an actual skill to win them and it is a viable, frequent strategy to score a posession. Regarding penalties, it is most often a gifted chance with probability of being scored 79% by an average penalty taker. What ends up happening is that a designated penalty taker that plays for a great team that wins a lot of penalties, will get a lot of easy goal opportunities for which they didn't have to do anything. And since players usually score less than 1 goal per game, scoring a penalty every 4th game will make a huge impact on their statistic... Basketball equivalent would be when someone's teammates step away for him to stat pad rebounds. It is undeserved and not a measure of skill.
Messi not only won the World Cup to shut the debate off, he won Copa America a year before he won the WC. The debate was over right there and then. Messi also now has the most trophies in football history. It's over and no one is reaching his numbers. Ronaldo is second for sure, then comes Pele. Maradona wasn't as great as any of Messi, Ronaldo or Pele. But sadly Ronaldo will be the only person on that list without a World Cup.
I think Maradona was much better than Ronaldo. Maradona won less, but in more difficult conditions and without aiming to play for the best teams in the world, he even reached 2 World Cup finals, of which he won 1. But as a player in general, he stood out far above the great players of his time. It is no coincidence that football history remembers him as one of the best or as the best. I consider that having won what he won with Napoli in the most difficult league in the world at the time is a stratospheric achievement, taking into account that he played for a team that was by no means one of the best in Italy, much less in the world. Ronaldo began to win in what was already one of the best teams in the world surrounded by very good players (Manchester United) and then he played in the best team in history if we talk about total awards (Real Madrid). Ronaldo's Real Madrid could have won a lot without Ronaldo because of its great players, but Napoli would never have been champions of anything if they had not had a player like Maradona. As for Messi, I believe that Barcelona would not have been up to the task of competing against the Madrid of its time if it had not been for Messi. Although Barcelona was always a good team, it was never one of the best teams in the world until the arrival of Messi. Before Messi, Barcelona had 48 titles in its history, but Messi during his stay at the club won 35 titles, meaning that in a little more than a decade he won three-quarters of all the trophies in the club's history.
Eye test - outside of headers, Messi does far more to make the beautiful game more beautiful. His goals are incredible, and his assists are art in motion.
The thing about the Maradona vs Messi debate is that we've having it since Messi was 20 or something. Before he even won his first ballon d'or. But you know how sports fans are. They form an opinion and they stick to it.
The thing about it is that Maradona needs the World Cup to be Maradona while Messi it’s already Messi without it, in reality there wasn’t a debate since having a career like Messi it’s way more dificulty than having a moment of brilliance and then nothing more out of that.
I love Ronaldo, but this shouldnt be a debate, its is obvious that Messi is better. he won everything, leads the top of every statistics being top 1-3. Bdo, golden boots, titles (individual and group), motm, assists, dribling, 360 vision, key passes, goals, etc etc the goat 🐐 no questions
It was never a debate. This "debate" was always forced bc of their respective clubs and bc they shared the era. Messi was always miles ahead of Ronaldo. Messi also now wins in all 4 categories after winning the copa America and world cup.
A crazy stat is that Messi has won the MOTM award in 52% of his matches. He is the probably the all time leader in that regard, while the closest to him in second place is obviously Ronaldo, who has won it in 30% of his matches (still insane numbers) You also have to put in to perspective that both achieved that, while beeing in some of the best teams of all time. I think why he took away the penalty goals, is because a penalty has verry high x/g, cause the player is only up against the goal keeper and any football player is expected to score these (average around 75% of the time). Messi is btw the worse penalty taker of them two, since Ronaldo has the higher amount and average. It still is seriously impressiv, that Messi overtook Ronaldo, if one considers how many more matches Ronaldo played, compared to Messi.
On the note of Messi having more outside of the box goals, yes he does have more than Ronaldo, but Ronaldo’s attempts outside the box are usually from further distance, a lot further.
And yet never in CR fans club they will said the name who is the one most assist CR every year. Is like CR play solo 1 vs 11 enemy player. Each talking messi they always mock messi get help by dmaria (well bcos he madrid player too), iniesta xavi, ronaldinho, suares neymar... But for CR never i heard who the one support him.
I'd generally agree with the likes of Jose Mourinho, Diego Simeone and Sir Alex Ferguson sentiments. Messi is more of a system player, who when surrounded by the best, he shines a lot and his skill set is unlocked to impact the game more. But Ronaldo has individual ability that is not as reliant to teammates. Mourinho said "It is much harder to be Ronaldo, than it is to be Messi", for he said Messi for the most of his career has been freed from defensive duty and the entire system revolves around him. Which, of course, makes sense - if you're Barcelona, of course you'd do that. But it should be taken into account. Sir Alex Ferguson said - Messi is a Barcelona player, but Ronaldo can play for Crystal Palace and score a hat-trick. That's why we see Messi's numbers drop when playing for Argentina's national team and when he left Barcelona and played for PSG. Because you don't have a system specifically designed for him and his team-mates trained to be cohesive in that system. Diego Simeone(he is an Argentinian coach, coaching Atletico Madrid) had a leaked private conversation, where in the audio you hear him say "I prefer Ronaldo". At the next press conference before a match, they asked him if he really preferred Ronaldo to his country-man Messi and he answered - you don't know the context, the context of the conversation was about who I'd prefer to have in Atletico Madrid and I said Ronaldo, because Ronaldo can slot in and make instant impact, while when Messi is surrounded by the best, he shines more. All in all, one can say history is history and what's in the past is in the past, but Messi's numbers are rather inflated by quite the margin, because when we watch him play in teams and systems that are not specifically tailor-made for him, he still is absolutely fantastic, but he wouldn't have the same numbers. And the debate to be had would be different, simply because Messi has received preferential treatment of proportions that have never existed for any other player - at least not to the same extent and to the same period(of more of a decade). And it is understandable, because he's absolutely amazing, but it definitely skews things if the "playing field" was the same.
For penalty. It’s a lil weird because most of the time. You didn’t create that penalty. For free throws it’s different. Hormis for tech. So yes, you have to score a pen and it’s still important. But when you know that 3/4 pen are in and that the player who shot the pen didn’t create the pen…it’s a lil harder to give him full credit for that
I was lucky enough to get a chance to see Ronaldino play, he was such a joy to watch, he will go down as one of the games most skilful players , his tricks , shooting abilty and no look passes was outrageous,
You simply cannot compare Messi with Ronaldo, or with anyone else. You cannot compare the sun to the moon. The sun shines on its own, but the moon just reflexes the light of the sun.
In football you don't have to earn a penalty to take a penalty shot, just like a technical free throw in basketball where you leave it to your best shooter... so most penalties scored by a player originally came from another player earning a foul inside the box, basically your teammate gifts you a penalty shot
1) You have to be careful with eye tests. Evaluating a player through observation is on occasion wrong. They may appear to be great but make many errors. Passing percentage may be not so great. Same with the shooting percentage. Sometimes these tests ends up being an illusion. 2)I do not put as much stock in MVPs, the number of championships won, etc as other do. These days, since the playing field is a lot more level, one player is not going to have nearly as much of an influence on a team as opposed to maybe the pre 1990s. Also, there is some bias when voting for awards comes into play. While I am not so sure about voting for European awards, but in America, very often, awards end up being a popularity contest. 3)In the end, I consider Messi to be the goat.
1) I agree with you and this is something that I’ve debated a lot. I don’t like the eye test as an individual category, but I do see its value when filtered through other tangible measures 2) yes bro, the US is almost strictly popularity contest at the pro level. That’s why QBs almost always win the MVP in football. 3) Agreed
@@CoreyMcKinneyFC Another example of the eye test is Derek Jeter with his fielding skills. His fielding looks pretty with all of his diving and picking up the ball and getting the player out. This is pure optics since Jeter makes a lot of errors and has poor range. These eye tests is partly why certain sports teams gravitates more towards analytics and others rely more on scouting.
@@angusmcwhorter9012 this is a safe space from the baseball bros, because that opinion on Jeter can get you cussed out 🤣 you’re absolutely right though! Flashy only means something when efficiency and stats match the play!
@@CoreyMcKinneyFC For Messi and Ronaldo this can be a fair shot. Those two are probably the most observed individuals in the history of the sport. Almost any step of their career was filmed, they were both at the top of the game from a verry young age and since people tend to follow certain players during the game, given that both have the biggest fan support, most eyes must have been on them.
Both are Truly and Purely Amazing, in my eyes they are like the symbol of Yin&Yang☯️ but If I were in a position to choose only one of them I'll go with Messi. 🤷🏻♂️✌️
It is Obvious that Messi is the GOAT, but at the Time of Maradona, he was undoubtly the best by far, and he not only won a World cup, he played 2 world cup finals, and lead NAPOLI (a usually Serie B italian team) to be the League Winner twice (was the best league at that moment) and to be European champion and italian cup champion, all of that WITH A TIER B CLUB. Maradona never played or wanted to play in the best team of the world, he was a mad dog that wanted to carry a lower team to the top. He even have churches in his name in Naples. And Above all of that, he was the face of the poor leading the victory against the rich and all the world loved that, his good side was always an example to the young generations, but his bad side overshadowed his awesome achievements. The ballon d'or was an european exclusive award at his time, that the only reason why he never won it, because he was from southamerica.
Still as per fifa, Pele would have won 7 and Maradona would have won 2 He was beautiful to watch but that's only the highlights He wasn't as consistent and didn't perform day in and day out like Messi and Ronaldo did But obviously we can't compare players like Ronaldo and Players like Maradona Both are very different. One if beautiful and one if effective When it comes to Messi. He is gifted and hardworking enough to be both beautiful and effective at the same time Simply the G.O.A.T🐐👽🥶✨
@@Inquisitive_Nomad Both Maradona and Pelé were absolute geniuses in their time, both changed the history of football forever (for the better) and it was a pleasure to see them play, it is true that Pelé won 3 World Cups but he only played in 2 complete ones because he was injured in one of them. but in general in Pelé's time Brazil was absolutely the best team with or without Pelé. In Maradona's time the competitiveness was much more Professional, even Maradona along with Matthaus and other players were the ones who promoted and fought to create the players' union in order to protect and ensure the professionalism of football. Maradona was a decisive and outstanding player in an era of many great players such as Platnini, Zico, Rummenigge, Butragueño, Pfaff, Scifo, lineker, Hugo Sanchez, Ancelotti, Van Basten, Rijkaard, Gullit, and more... Maradona stood out in a time in which every tactic against him was aimed at kicking and injuring him. I dare say that at the peak of his career, Maradona was more technical than Messi, taking into account the state of the fields and the constant effort to not only dribble the ball but also evade malicious kicks. Maradona led 2 Argentine teams that were not candidates for the championship to the World Cup final, of which he won 1. Both Maradona and Pelé were undoubtedly the best of their times, and I have no doubt that they would be extremely good players today. They stood out in a historical moment in which the health of the players was secondary and the rules were not so rigorous. Both football legends.
@@MatiasDypala Pele & Maradona both had to play with leather balls in their time. These things were as heavy and hard as rocks when soaked in a wet game, still they looked effortless working with that, now imagine what they can do with a modern ball.
Zip ball made a updated comparison video in late 2023. And honestly that's all that pretty much matters. After this summer whatever they do doesn't matter anymore unless it's the world cup
When it comes to the outside the box goals, Ronaldo has scored from further out than Messi, and that's what you see in the compilations, but Messi has a lot more goals that are outside the box, but not too far outside the box. That's where the difference lies
imo in messi's playstyle, no one can come close to him. but if you look at ronaldo's playstyle, i personally doubt anyone can come close to him as well. it's like we debate these 2 but in their own ways and styles they are leagues above the rest.
Winning is more about your teammates. It’s a team game. Sometimes it depends on luck as well. So the best way to judge a player is to judge purely on his ability. Basic stats like goals and assists won’t give you the full picture. Only casual fans would read so much into it. Haaland has a lot of Goals and Assists? Then? Haaland scores a lot, it means that everyone in ManCity are creating for him, instead of creating for each other to have everyone scoring. The TOTAL number of goals that ManCity scores is not going to be increased because Haaland is there. He just takes away the number of goals his teammates could have scored. Assists? A miscontrol in front of the goal that bounces off towards his teammate can be considered as an assist. It doesn’t mean Haaland has the creativity of Firmino creating goals for his teammates. English fans and a lot of casual fans overrate G/A and efficiency. They forget that where do G/A comes from. They are from build up play. If you have a high G/A but you don’t have much build up play contribution, it means that you are just taking the G/A from your teammates, because the TOTAL overall G/A of your TEAM, won’t increase if you don’t add more build up play into it.
I’d like to pushback on this just a bit. Random assists as you described do not occur consistently enough to be an elite category. Haaland is certainly a great goal scorer. However, Haaland does not stack up in any other category to these two. The efficiency matters when all other measures are considered
@@CoreyMcKinneyFC Build up play has become more important in the modern game. Modern teams are more compact vertically. Which means the distance between their strikers and their defenders are closer. They defend with 11 players forming a block. Therefore, you need 11 creative players to break down that block. That’s why modern defenders and goalkeepers are required to be so much more technical on the ball. In the past, being a goal hanger isn’t that big of a trade off, because your team could still be able to create through a 4 men defence. But nowadays, you can’t afford to be one man down in the build up process because you are facing 11 defenders. This is why modern football has become more “TOTAL”. A striker’s job is not just finishing, but also defending and creating. Otherwise your team would be in a numerical disadvantage in the defensive/build up phase. The same applies to defenders and goalkeepers. Being “TOTAL” not only means you are not in a disadvantage in other phases, it allows more position swapping opportunities to break down those low blocks, hence more tactical flexibility. This is why serving the system has become so much more important in modern football.
Those statistics are outdated. Messi ended up winning copa america, finalissima & the world cup for Argentina. He also won his 8th ballon d’oro & his second golden ball.
Personally im a Messi guy, but both are 2 of the greatest of all-time, I recently spoke to a friends kid about this, he asked me who I prefer, I said Messi, but what does it matter who's better in my opinion, both have been unbelievable, we've not seen a guy this good, probably since Maradona, and we were lucky enough to see 2 at the same time, we get great players in every generation (Zidane, Ronaldinho, R9, Thierry Henry, etc) but these guys aren't once in a general, they're once in a lifetime, you might be 50 odd when you see just one this good again (my mate's son is currently 8) sure there'll be great players again, but at that level, that's rare
As a Messi let me tell you why it matters to me. For the longest time these tow guys dominated football. It was always who’s the better player and it was Messi or Ronaldo for years. A lot of people always assumed if anyone won a WC it would be R7 because Portugal was has better teams the majority of the time. It was always they can’t be the GOAT because they haven’t won’t a WC, Messi was being compared to Maradona. And nobody held a Ronaldo to that standard. The conversation was whoever wins a WC will obviously be the goat. Then messi wins one and then the R7 fans want to claim th at they are both GOAT. Nah fam keep the same energy, saying that whoever wins one will be the GOAT.
@andrewhp9754 what does that matter, yes its annoying but I don't judge either by what other people say, I just believe they've both been great, I just appreciate both, it doesn't have to be one or the other, yes I prefer Messi but like I said to Sam (my mate's kid) why does it have to be a tribal thing
@@mrmr5580 I get what you mean, but let me tell you now it’s going to get worse. Since people are making the whole why can’t we appreciate them both, or both are goats. Ronaldo fans went the longest time saying R7 was better than Messi for whatever reason. Now they don’t have anything they want to make the argument that they are both great. I’ve been a Messi fan for years, let me tell you as his fans in which he lost the WC, people ate him alive. Maradona even said he didn’t have the passion. As his fan we defended him for years from so much slander. The R7 fan base was eating us alive when he lost those finals. Or stepped down from international football. It’s a pride thing, and the love you have for a player. Messi himself said he appreciates all the fans that defend him for any years. I was getting in arguments with friends and getting destroyed with comments of Messi missing a penalty or anything. But I was always a fan saying he was the GOAT. I’ve never said R7 wasn’t an all time great. But I would never make fun of him like R7 fans did to Messi. So to me it’s about that, we supported a player for so many years. Cried when he lost the WC and other finals. I always believed he was one of the greatest of all time if not the GOAT. But people kept saying he needed a WC to get that title. So what does he do, win one and now R7 fans are saying that they are both great. Nah fam there’s no both when all those years you kept claiming R7 was better because Portugal was more stacked for the WC or won the euros.
@andrewhp9754 I agree itll make some CR7 fans even more unbearable, but ive never let them bother me, I just appreciate that both guys have been great, I was actually at the Arsenal 2-1 Barcelona in 2011, after Arshavin's goal every timecthe ball went near Messi I was cacking myself, (in the 2nd leg in Barcelona he absolutely murdered us) I can tell you Messi is the best player I've ever seen
@@andrewhp9754I mean the toxicity always existed within both fan bases at extreme levels. Remember fans at the Bernebeu cheering for Ronaldo to off himself and making fun of his deceased father? Whenever we talk about these two we can’t ignore Madrid and Barcelona and the history there, in terms of actual cultural differences between the two that stems way beyond football. And even with the notion of Portugal’s teams being stronger, it was only because there were more players playing for European clubs and Argentina. As for individual talent and cohesiveness, it’s pretty much always been Argentina. A lot of Argentinian players didn’t make the move, not because they weren’t good enough, but for the same reason a lot of Brazilians stayed in Brazil as well, it was home and the league was good enough.
Messi and Ronaldo being better than Maradona and Pele isn't controversial. It is a fact. They have better stats, more trophies and everything else other than 3 WCs.
I think that’s a bit unfair. Maradona and especially Pele was viciously kicked off the field without repercussions. Pele missed most of the 1962 and 1966 world cup because of it. Offensive and creative players are much more protected these days. Including goals from friendly matches showed Peles big ego. But on the other hand, the only times Santos played top European teams was during those exhibition tours. And Pele regularly scored two and three goals against those top teams. Even though they traveled and slept kind of rough for those tours. In my opinion there is a debate to be had between Messi and Pele all though I would vote for Messi. I think Ronaldo and Maradona cannot compare to either of them.
Real Madrid's president influence what makes ronaldo into this debate ... he won 4 ballon d'or thanks to his daddy Perez .... look what happened to him the moment he left madrid ..... no awards & no big trophies too
@@nio5844 He hasn’t done anything to warrant being in the top 10 this season. Individually, he’s not performing better than the likes of someone like Wirtz, yet Wirtz isn’t even in the top 10.
Messi is the best player that has ever lived. No doubt in my mind. The thing is…. It isn’t even close. For me…. R7, Pele, Maradonna and R9 - make up in the top 5. In whatever order you prefer.
The levels for me goes like (outside keepers) Top 5 league ballers (eg: Mbappe, Suarez, KDB, Neymar, Xavi, Iniesta,etc.) < Generational ballers(eg: Maradona, Ronaldinho, R9, Cruyff, etc.) < GOATS Now for me, GOATS also has levels (regardless of world cup) Pele < Cr7 < Messi Mardona wasn't on my Goat list because he was inconsistent and paired with other aspects of his character that affected his career, which in my eyes feel like what happened to Ronaldinho as well. (I am not old enough to properly place them and am only going by currently available football history, but even then Pele is on the top 3 because of his impact on football as a whole, not saying Maradona did not have a stellar impact, but he's not exactly the ideal player or person is he, whether it be doping or being inconsistent and highly temperamental)
I think any opinion of Ronaldo is ok but holding him to the standard to the World Cup is unfair tho, outside of 2010 and 2006 there was no proper squad. Ronaldo’s prime was 2008-17 and the teams he had were garbage. Fernando Santos also doesn’t understand football either but his formation is very untraditional and doesn’t have any organization. The 2022 team was good with Felix, Leao and Bernardo but the coach didn’t play a 4-3-3-3 formation instead he played a weird formation that didn’t suit the players right and he blamed Ronaldo for the issues. They didn’t have a good time but they time they did Ronaldo was 37, why didn’t make a good roster when he was in his prime
Longtime Bayern, German national team & most importantly, football fan here. We were fortunate to have a good track record against Messi & Co. It took a us a complete dismantling of 8 goals on aggregate to be comfortable and say we took Messi down. I don’t think there’s anyone who can do or will do what he does. I’m happy to have watched him play in person. The vision, skill & pure instinct for goal is unreal. I don’t understand how he can be compared to anyone. Unfortunately for Ronaldo he existed at the same time Messi did. Messi is just pure wizardry
Great reaction and video although tbh this video is out of date by about 4 years. Messi has since won a Copa America, finalissima and World Cup so wins all 4 categories. Just 🐐 things 🤣 although personally for me even if he never won anything internationally he would still be the best as historically Argentina have always totally relied on Messi, not realizing football is a team sport and even a 🐐 can't be everywhere 🤨
Players with the most Goals scored in history: 1. 🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo (885) 2. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (826) 3. 🇦🇹 Josef Bican (805) Players with the most Assists in history: [Opta Assists only] 1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (363) 2. 🇭🇺 Ferenc Puskás (359) 3. 🇳🇱 Johan Cruyff (358) Players with the most Dribbles Completions in history: [Since 2006-07 season by Opta] 1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (2,358) 2. 🇧🇪 Eden Hazard (1,285) 3. 🇨🇵 Franck Ribéry (1,061) Players with the most France Football Ballon d'Ors in history: 1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (8) 2. 🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo (5) 3. 🇳🇱 Johan Cruyff (3) Players with the most FIFA The Best Awards in history: 1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (8) 2. 🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo (5) 3. 🇨🇵 Zinedine Zidane (3) Players with the most FIFA World Cup Golden Ball Awards in history: 1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (2) 2. 🇦🇷 Diego Maradona (1) 3. 🇩🇪 Oliver Kahn (1) Players with the most European Golden Boots in history: 1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (6) 2. 🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo (4) 3. 🇺🇾 Luis Suárez (2) Players with the most MOTMs in history: [Domestic Leagues + Champions League since 2009-10 season] 1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (318) 2. 🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo (168) 3. 🇸🇪 Zlatan Ibrahimović (116) Players with the most IFFHS World’s Best Playmaker Awards in history: 1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (5) 2. 🇪🇦 Xavi Hernández (4) 3. 🇧🇪 Kevin De Bruyne (3) Players with the most International Player of the Tournament Awards in history: 1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (7) 2. 🇺🇾 José Nasazzi (3) 3. 🇧🇷 Pelé Arantes (2) Players with the most Major Trophies in history: 1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (44) 2. 🇧🇷 Dani Alves (43) 3. 🇪🇦 Andrés Iniesta (37) Players with the most Individual Awards in history: 1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi 2. 🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo 3. 🇧🇷 Ronaldo Nazário Has any Player dominated their Sport like Messi did? 🤔
@@Papa_G_Weezy why ??? Why I'm supposed to cry ?? Because I know that Ronaldo is better than Messi but the fifa was with him ?? Nah who cares? Nothing is matter if I know the truth
The thing about Messi’s outside of the box stats, it is that they are done mainly done inches or feets away from the box which still counts them as outside of the box while Ronaldo’s are long range one from meters away.
Whilst Messi and C. Ronaldo are probably two of the best ever players to play the sport. Their time is basically over and entering the retirement phase. Maybe it's time you check out some other players, like up and coming players. Or just anyone other than them.
I think is good to look for legendary players because You Will have a standard of what great is, SO in the future You can juegue better if a young player can reach that level or is puré hype
There is no “one main job” in modern football. “A defender is bought to defend”? So as long as he is great at defending, he can keep passing the ball to the opponent, and avoiding the ball when his teammates are passing to him? Haaland is just a goal hanger. He is a massive liability in the build up. As a result, his team will have less and lower quality of possession, ball progression and chance creation, which will eventually reduce the total number of goals his team can score. Three times against Arsenal this season. Haaland is invisible, and registered an extremely low xG. If ManCity had played a tekky/creative false 9 instead, Arsenal would not be able to defend. Because ManCity’s tiki taka play would be so much more dangerous, it’s like they have 16 players on the pitch. The purpose of football is to maximise the TOTAL number of goals your TEAM could score. It doesn’t matter if you score 50 goals a season if you are the reason your team is scoring less in total.
bro , this camparioson is totally bias , this stats doesn't show how much the each of them contributed to win the trophies and did they deserve those individual achivements , and the different leagues they played . i don't think this camparioson accurate to decide who is better , if you wanna see why we like cristiano ronaldo more than messi watch this video "the man who can do everything "
@@m_emetube bro messi has better statistics were good when he was in barca but how good he was at PSG, that's what I'm saying numbers doesn't show how good you were in different leagues but Ronaldo proved himself with 5 different teams and in 4 different leagues ,
@@user-fm7hb9ze9q Messi won the best foreign player award and have 20+ respective goals & assists in his 2nd season (Vini Jr was the only other player in Europe to do it) all while Messi wasn’t even the main man up front if you have watched PSG’s games. He won the French league & cups in his two seasons there and if you consider that a flop, then Ronaldo also flopped at Juventus by the same standards as both of them failed to deliver the UCL, and the funny thing is, despite Ronaldo having a respectable personal goal tally there, Juve actually scored less as a team as per stats due to them altering their playstyle to accommodate him. The narrative about Ronaldo conquering the 3 main leagues have been blown out of context, he has always joined teams who were already winning championships prior to his arrival - Man Utd 7 of the past 11, Juve 9 straight Scudetti, Real Madrid only 2 league titles of the 9 years there he spent at his peak. Phenomenal player, yes but there is so much misinformation/ false narratives spread by the CR7 fan pages on social media to size up Ronaldo and discredit Messi to the point it’s frustrating to see as a football fan. Why can’t we just enjoy both with the little time thats left of them ? The football world will no longer be the same without them.
Cristiano is a phenomenal player and goal scorer. But Messi is something else. His powers come from some divine intervention. Greetings from Argentina, tierra de Diego & Lionel ! 🇦🇷
Está bien lo que dice de MARADONA su comparación con Messi, lo que pasa que el peso de Maradona (para nosotros, los argentinos) tiene que ver con muchas otras cosas que ocurren en la vida y que van mas allá del Futbol, es un símbolo de nuestra identidad (para bien y para mal) habría que recurrir a la Sociología para aproximarse a una Respuesta. It is good what his comparison with Messi says about MARADONA, what happens is that Maradona's weight (for us, Argentines) has to do with many other things that happen in life and that go beyond Soccer, he is a symbol of our identity (for better and for worse) we would have to resort to Sociology to come up with an Answer.
As an Argentine Messi is the GOAT and has been, since I'm only 20 I've grown up with him, but in most Argentine's eyes Maradona was/is the best because of the World Cup. In Argentina, they do not care so much about what you do in Europe it is about what you do for your country. Another point is Maradona's eccentric personality aligns more closely with the Argentine spirit, and especially before he won the Copa America, Messi was seen as a coward and somewhat unArgentine by many. I obviously never agreed, but just what many people think.
Igual Nico, lo de Maradona no se reduce solo a lo que dijiste... El "eye test" de Maradona es una locura, lo talentoso que era para manipular la pelota es algo que no se ha visto en ningún jugador. Las estadísticas y la constancia lo condenan. Maradona es ese jugador que uno quisiera que pudiera renacer para guiarlo en su crecimiento y ver lo que es capaz de lograr si hace las cosas bien y va a los equipos indicados.
No you cannot compare FREE THROWS to PENALTIES… free throws are taken by the originally fouled player but penalties are taken by the teams penalty taker regardless of wether he was involved in the build up leading to the foul in the box or not. So a player can take credit for someone else’s work. Which Ronaldo does a lot. For example a player dribbles past 3 players and gets taken down in the box, Ronaldo was not involved but will be take the penalty and score stealing the players credit and goal opportunity.
Messi also takes penalties but he shares them a lot with his teammates. And he takes way less than Ronaldo which is why the video mentioned that in the statistics segment
Now if we go into more detail for the number of team trophies and individual trophies, Messi leaves CR7 in the dust behind him without any shadow of a doubt. All in all a good video from the original maker and your thoughts reacting to it, but it's sadly a little out of date as evident by Messi's 3 international trophies not being there at the time of the original creator making his video.
Now messi not only takes Ronaldo but everyone else in history interms of trophies he has won 43 or 44 most trophies won by anyone in football history. Won everything with club and COUNTRY (something that was missing for 18 years of his career but he ended that drought) and became the Greatest of all time and there will always be those who debate and they can debate all they want but stats says otherwise you can't ignore stats they'll smack you in the face
It's silly to compare footballers, and attempt to define the " greatest of all time " . In the past , balls were heavier, and pitches rougher. And how could anyone say a goalkeeper who saves lots of goals is inferior to a striker that scores them ? And any footballer is only as good as the team around them. A good team will beat a team of individualistic players, however talented.
Ronaldinho is the GOAT. Messi and CristianoRonaldo can’t compare to Ronaldinho’s prime. The premadrid CristianoRonaldo was more skillful than both Messi and the later version of himself.
Ronaldinho isn't even close to them. He doesn't have the numbers or the trophies to match that. And what Ronaldinho's prime? Messi won three Ballon Dors before reaching 23, and had 91 goals in a year, that's probably half of what Dinho scored.
@@nikdik154 Another casual fan that just read into simple stats and not seeing the bigger picture. Are you saying Haaland is better than R9 because of stats? Read my replies, you will then understand.
@@thierryhenry674no, R9 had achieved more than Haaland and Haaland hasn't played for 20+ years. Ronnie didn't achieve more than what Messi or Ronaldo did. His career was cut short because of his off field antics. Messi has a World Cup, possibly twice as much goals and assists than Ronnie and many more. What a naive statement you said. Haaland isn't close to what Messi has achieved. It's not remotely the same thing.
just the world cup buddy? He has copa america 2021, finalissa against euro champs, and the WC...as for eye test, there is no competition between those two, two are very different, but Leo since beginning has been considered as maradona's successor for several reasons, one of it is because he has the stuff of legends in his style of play, that eye-catching "Wow" thing...cristiano, except few goals in his career, if rest of his goals and gameplay presense is considered as overall, is not even near messi's level...even mbappe has more overall gameplay presence nowadays than the "perfect striker" ronaldo...though man-u ronaldo was better than kylian
in football success, i agree that messi is more successful, but for me this does not mean that he is better. ronaldinho is less successful than messi and ronaldo, and he is literally better then both of them ,when you see the numbers and awards of messi and ronaldo, you will think that messi is better, but when you see the story and career of the two in detail, you will know that ronaldo is better. this is what happened to me personally
@@Ali-ov6myman can’t even keep his fake agenda straight…💀 you just said r10 is better then both and then you say he’s top 10 at least lmao you are a different creature for sure… and why defend Ronaldo in every other comment if R10 is the goat??
@@Ar17778 haha funny, you're talking like Real Madrid were a better team than Barca from 2009 to 2012, what made Messi has a better stats is Barcelona, and you should understand that stats and awards aren't everything, Messi has more assists then modric and kroos , is that make him better in assisting and playmaking? No, absolutely No
@@Ali-ov6my and your talking like Madrid were a second division side, Madrid were one of the biggest clubs with world class in every position… same as Barca but they couldn’t win still 2 leagues in 9 years what a joke 😭 and yes you are factually correct Messi has more assist then Kroos and modric so tell me how does your tiny delusional brain then think that they both have better passing playmaking? Compare modric and kroos stats together against Messi and he still probably wins
@@Ali-ov6my so you genuinely think modric or Kroos are better playmakers then THE best playmaker the world has ever seen? Yeah this is why most the world hates madrid fans they’re nothing but clueless glory hunters but Jesus Christ you are a different breed of 🤡
25:08 bro no maradona is more than that he is not known for stats His playing style is the best ever like messi He carried Argentina to another wc final And he carried Napoli at that time one of the worst teams in italy he carried them to league and won some trophies too He is a midfielder that's why his stats are low and actually he ruined his career man 🥲
This video is a perfect example of people failing to understand statistics and epistemology. Things don't magically become "objective" or "logical" because you use numbers and matrixes. Why would all competitions be worth the same number of points? Why wouldn't you take the preconditions of each country into account when ranking international wins (Portugal is a much smaller nation, European tournaments are more competitive, etc)? Why wouldn't you include individual awards (football is a team sport, teams win or lose - even if an individual is good - ergo, why not place more weight on individual achievements)? Why would you use these statistics and not others? Why not take position into account? Why no measurements concerning tactical awareness? Or defensive abilities? Or physique? Leadership? Etc etc etc. Not to mention that many of these statistics are interpreted in a sloppy way (the assumptions needed for the inference being made are not met). My point: It's impossible to "measure" footballers objectively. Your choice of metrics and how you weigh them is based on subjective opinions. These are well-grounded opinions, not facts.
It's not impossible. You're raise some false points: of course we wouldn't measure each competition by the same number of points. No one is saying that about either of these guys. I'm certainly not saying that Messi's time here in MLS is more valuable that Ronaldos in the EPL, that would be dumb. To your point of Portugal being smaller than most European countries: you are right. That's why I believe Ronaldo got the nod for the international performances, until Messi won the World Cup. I don't care how small or big your country is, a World Cup win is objectively the best thing you can win. Individual achievement is great, but player awards are oftentimes objective. The example I gave in the video does clarify this, but I'll restate it for the sake of argument. Example: best player is relatively subjective, given that multiple leagues across multiple countries across multiple positions have to be considered and somehow measured. Example: most goals scored is objective. Score the most goals, and guess what? You win. If we measured physique, how exactly would you like that done? Strength training test? Perhaps an obstacle course for best time? Or are you simply asserting that one of these men looks stronger with his shirt off than the other? My point: this is a futile attempt. Defensive abilities should have been considered, that's a great rebuttal. Tactical awareness is good too, but I've done a video on that and Messi annihilates everyone in that field. Leadership is a fair one as well, though leadership too can be subjective given the circumstances. I'd say both of these men are great leaders (got a good video on Ronaldo dropping this week that shows just how great of a leader he is). Your last few sentences are dubious. You can measure footballers objectively, and stats are a great way to do it. Numbers don't care about your feelings. Numbers aren't opinions, they are facts. This has been a fun comment to interact with sir!
These videos that go off stats alone really make it seem like Messi is the goat, but if you actually look at the reasoning behind what happens you can look at Tj huss, he has a Ronaldo bias, but he can show you the other side of the argument so you can see for yourself
Ronaldo have more tap ins and penalties, the rest of the stats Dribbling, assist, key passes, MOTMs, POTTs, Trophies, Individual honours, International achievements all goes to Messi
Corey... "maradona dont do anything outside the worldcup" bro 😂, readme, he go to Italy (the best ligue in that moment) and pick the worst team last place in the table (napoli) and he won 3 ligues consecutive, european cup etc... brother..... is fucking maradona is likw messi in the pitch dribbling and passing all.. literally
@@CoreyMcKinneyFC Diego Maradona • Why is he the best Ever • Ultimate Skill video From "O Bola Nas Costas" (thats the tittle and channel).......... Corey.. that is the best maradona video in ALL YT.. in this video show in 30 minuts passing 4,5 people like messi but in that time referi have no merci DEFENDERS KILLS HIMS and (very rare material to), i see all his videos in yt hard maradona and messi fan, and i know for facts what i am talking about.. i ma messi fan for the beggins his career and (even messi says always..) maradona is the goat in peaks termins (see the video for yourself and compare to messi.. is messi in the 80s 90´s literally) but no consistent like 50 goals per seasson like messi (but they have the same dribble and magic is the only two players above the rest TRUST ME SEE THIS VIDEOS A BOOM.. the jaw is gonna drop u because have thats rare skills videos
Messi wins all 4 categories now. He won the 2021 Copa America, the 2022 Finalissima and the 2022 World Cup. He is now undisputed.
Yup!
The greatest to ever do it
@@CoreyMcKinneyFCu need to react to di María
he is reacting about Messi vs Ronaldo here. Lmao@@UniversoAlquimia
You know it as well as I am but thee conversation was never really had. Messi has been the greatest since he was about 21 years of age. The accolades just came later.
"Cristiano is a great player, but those who say he is better than Messi don't know anything about football, or they say it in bad faith," Marco Van Basten
I think he's the one who doesn't know anything 😂
He is literally a football legend @@Ali-ov6my
@@Ali-ov6myyh the one who won 3 ballon d'ors retiring at 28 doesn't know anything bout football😂😂
In India Ronaldo is weirdly famous among kids even though they didn't watch a single game of him. And Messi is more famous in South India where there is so much craze of football.
own penaldo so hard
Who cares ??
Ronaldo is definitely not bad, it's just that Messi is on another level.
Ronaldo is head and shoulders above pretty much every legend it’s just Messi is in a completely other galaxy to everyone
Bruh all of you are overrating Messi too much, Messi is not a better footballer then Ronaldo, Ronaldo can do everything Messi can do and the opposite for messi, Messi didn't even play well with psg he was trash in 2021 how he's better than Ronaldo?? Any team Ronaldo plays with ( good or bad) he become the savior of them, he can play in any tactic and with different styles and in any club, seriously I don't know how people still thinks that Messi is better
@@Ali-ov6my you are delusional and that’s fine
@@Ali-ov6my Fid you even watch the video? It's pretty straightforward, you're just delusional.
And ronaldo played for literally the best teams in their respective leagues, man un, real madrid and juventus? All at the top of the table when ronaldo joined them.
@@daquaviousbingleton9763 sooo overrated he can't even do well in the farmers league 😂😂😂😂
There was never a comparison.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
in short, Messi in his weakest season was above Ronaldo and the rest of course🤣 As a Manchester United fan, I am 100% that Messi is at a completely different level compared to the rest.
Every rational and neutral football fan knows that Messi is better. It was a media forced debate.
Tell that to sir Alex 👍
He is just biased @@Ali-ov6my
@@Ali-ov6myThen what about Rooney, Bale, De Maria, Luka Modric, Alfanso Xavi,
@@thundershield9102 bale once said Ronaldo, rooney hates Ronaldo, Luka said Ronaldo, I don't know what di Maria said, but who cares??? even if the whole world said that Messi is better, from what I saw in their career I know that Ronaldo is a better player, before they left spain they were equal, sometimes Ronaldo was better and sometimes Messi was better, after they left spain I saw the truth, Messi is a Barcelona player, he can't do it outside of Barca
@@thundershield9102 he's not biased he said the truth, Messi is a Barcelona player
Messi is the goat for those who know football it was never a debate but for those in denial 2022 was when the debate brutally ended with Messi lifting the world cup. Whilst the self proclaimed goat was benched for club and country. 🤣Cristiano is one of the best but if any one thinks he is close to Messi they have attained and solidified clueless casual status. When you make WORLD CLASS (never forget) defenders look clueless, while scoring 800+ and having 300+ assists and every major trophy in the sport consistently throughout your nearly 2 decade career, you are the EASILY the GOAT. Ex players, managers, pundits and neutral football fans knows Messi is the best even casuals saw the light
Goat of paidcelona AKA negreira merchant 😂😂😂😂
Without it he's nothing 🤣🤣🤣
Flopped in psg with 0 g/a in KO stage and 0 domestic cup with psg 🤣🤣
Now joined 63rd ranked league MLS inter miami only at 35 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Goat of 8-2, 7-0, 6-0, 5-1, 4-3 against Hillal B team 🐖🐖🤣🤣
Bottled 4 finals with star stacked Argentina team 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Overrated fraud, cry moooooore 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤏🧠🐖🐖🐖
And sir Alex also knows that Messi is just a Barcelona player, and that's the truth
@@Ali-ov6myWho the f*k is he 😂
@@Ali-ov6mywaaaa waaa
@@Ar17778 you don't have any words to reply me because you know that Messi is just a Barcelona player
just regarding the removal of penalties: he only does it because penalties do inflate numbers, open play goals are naturally more difficult to score. For example right now in the premier league: ollie watkins is on 19 league goals with 0 penalties, where as cole palmer is on 20 goals with 9 penalties. I would argue that watkins number is more impressive due to 80% of penalties being scored across all players.
Well I think theer are exceptions to that. For example, scoring a penalty in a WC knockout match is probably the most stress inducing thing in football. If you miss, it will haunt you forever. Comparatively, scoring a tap-in is probably easier in general.
@@celeschan90 Nah, a pen is still easier because you've got time to react and prepare. Pressure applies to any close range goal, whether it's a pen or tapin
@@user-783hhss7w2oifhe I disagree. Pressure of winning a league match against for example a bottom team by 5-0 instead of 6-0 when missing the tap in is very different from the pressure of being the reason your country are out of the WC for the next 4 years. Roberto Baggio recently said that not a day goes by that he doesn't think of his missed penalty in the 1994 final. We wouldn't have people missing the goal completely if having time to prepare and react is just a positive. It also gives them time to process all the things that can make them more nervous, compared to a split second decision.
@@celeschan90not all goals are created equal (tapins) and even among penalties, not all are equal. That about sums up your point. Each one counts the same to a game, but when comparing players, i agree with your approach
Maradona's level of football at his peak is faaaar better than any other player except for Messi imo, and some people don't think even Lio reached that level, it wasn't only at world cups but also what he did at Napoli is insanely impressive, one of the most incredible things I've ever seen a player do, the impact he had on that team, the best players in the world played in the serie A at that time and he took one of the worst sides on that league and gave them their first taste of glory, he's a God at Napoles still, that's why many people consider him the best, his peak level. To me top 3 is Messi, Maradona, Pelé, the holy trinity of football
Sadly that’s Maradona’s greatest accomplishment since he was not consistent, outside of the World Cup. In his resume there isn’t even a copa America which Argentina have like 15 or we see 0 champions or libertadores. Which brings the question, why Ronaldinho it’s not seen in the same light or above.
Thats exactly what i say to corey, men... maradona pick (napoli) the last place in the ligue and won ligues cups, Europa league... (the best ligue in that moment)
This was a great video to react to. The creator put the effort into it and it clearly shows 🙌
it really wasnt, to outdated. Messi won so much after this vid including copa America and world cup + 2 ballondors
"Ronaldo started his career in a tougher league, the premier league"
This... just isn't exactly true. The Premier League is better NOW, yes, but at the time Messi started his career in Barcelona, La Liga was, momentary though it was, the most highly regarded league in the world. The Premier League actually has had a lot of ups and downs because the British teams have a tendency to flipflop on how much they care about international titles, leading to times where they had extremely poor showings on international competitions and where they actually lost a bunch of prestige on top of actually dropping in level because they were only playing each other and not actually matching up against the world's best.
Re: Penalty Goals:
Penalty goals are taken away because they are, on average, considerably easier to score... and they're also sort of infamously a subject of debate and contention because, well, one of the most well known ways for a ref to help a team win is granting them a bullshit penalty. This is why people will call him "Penaldo", because he scores so many penalties. Also, some may argue that Real Madrid is also notably more prone to... referee aid, so to speak, being the richer, more powerful, more prestigious and more media-shielded club from the biggest two in La Liga.
Re: Impact on Team:
One of the most notable displays of how a player affects their team's effectiveness is... well, how they played in the last World Cup.
Argentina's Players famously were all united for one, single and specific goal through all the world cup: Everyone wanted Messi to win and lift that cup. Each and every single one of them played for the singular purpose of having the GOAT that some of them had grown up admiring be crowned as world champion. Of course they all also wanted to themselves be World Champions, but really, the most important thing was that they did it with Messi.
Portugal, perhaps infamously, performed better with Ronaldo off the pitch. Now, there's debate whether this is the Coach's fault, and some of his fans would argue his team was just jealous, and the more conspiration-oriented of them would even try to convince you that somehow FIFA made them say that or do that so Messi would win because that's easier than admitting that Ronaldo is just plain too old to continue performing at his old level. But the reality of the matter is, he was actively causing problems for Portugal's team chemistry and perhaps might not have even been brought into the team if it wasn't for his immense fame.
Re: Eye Test
When he talks about Ronaldo hurting in the play, what he means is that Ronaldo has a tendency to be very goal focused and sometimes even selfish. Even if he had a great pass opportunity he wouldn't take it and attempt to score instead, because what he wanted was to be the one who scored, while comparing it to Messi, whose philosophy was "I don't care who scores, my objective is that the ball goes in regardless of who puts it there", which is why Messi is willing to do stuff like the penalty assist.
Also funny about the Maradona thing:
Maradona had considerably worse opportunities, training and nutrition than Messi or Ronaldo did. The video itself, when talking about the eye test, spoke about how you can't put statistics on what the players actually do on the pitch, and that's kind of the problem here.
Because Maradona was an extremely brilliant star that never had a superteam backing him up. If you compare Maradona's world cup winning Argentina to Messi's World Cup Winning Argentina there's just no comparison, some old people will try to argue but they'd just flatly be wrong, current Argentina is the best it's ever been, and is freaking monstrous in comparison to the 2 world cup winning teams. And it's not just because of the infinitely better training, nutrition and health managing they have, it's also about the level of competition they are exposed to, as the level of the european leagues that almost the entirety of the Argentinian squad plays in has increased massively as well.
Maradona was a humanoid hunk of bullshit that should never have been able to do the insane things he did. If he'd had the support that Ronaldo and Messi had, and that's sort of part of the reason for his inconsistency. He never had proper support, and in fact, the people who should've supported and helped him only helped him slip down the slippery slope of vice and excess.
TL;DR on Maradona: If he played today, and not back then, it's entirely possible that Argentina would have 4 or even 5 stars and not 3.
The thing about this video is that it sort of... really drops the ball specifically with regards to Maradona, literally bringing up why Statistics aren't everything, then immediately claiming statistics are everything to claim Maradona ain't shit.
Also an important metric: The tactic to stop Maradona was to rely on incredibly poor referee'ing to foul him as much as possible. One of the reasons he was so inconsistent was that, well, the tactic to injure the fuck out of him to try to stop him was used universally and despite his tenacity... it was used so much because it worked, they would beat the shit out of him until he couldn't do his Maradona bullshit on the pitch anymore. Football used to be a lot more violent in the past.
Same happened to Pelé but he had better teammates to fall back on than Maradona did, and yes, I say this as much as it hurts to admit that Brasil was better than Argentina for a long time.
Tbh.. The debate was already over when messi took Argentina to two finals (copa and worldcup) Which they lost both ofcourse.. Meanwhile cr7 didn't even play in the final which portugal won the euros.
The guy disrespected Maradona 😔 man sure his stats are less but he was a Magical Player , his gameplay was too like Messi totally out of this world , Pele was more like a Statistics player , Cristiano too is like a Statistics player , But Messi is definitely The GOAT both as a Magical and Statistics Player .
he's inconsistent
If we talk all Maradona’s bad stuff out of the picture like doping and drugs, we are still with a magical player that was not consistent, his career it’s not as consistent compared to all the other greats. If I say that frank becken did more in his career and should be above I am sure I ll get a million hates, yet still true that frank becken was a menace.
@@rz7909 Alfredo di Stefano, someone who Pele and Maradona both agreed on as a better player than themselves.
Its always been Messi. But saying he is the GOAT is not putting down any other great players.
I’ve had to wrap my head around this as well. There have been many greats, but only one is the greatest, and that’s ok
@@CoreyMcKinneyFC I generally love the eye test, and I agree with people who say that Ronaldo at Man U was much better on the eye test. But injuries kinda forced him to change style when he went to Madrid, so his stats went up but the eye-test went down. Messi has pretty much had the same mindset since a teenager, and only got better with time. The stats are just the icing on the cake.
Messi being the goat doesnt mean the others arent great
@@raggmedia Cristiano was a showboat in United. Very quick feet and skillful, but I personally don't like showboating so it is a matter of taste. Also, It wasn't injuries that made him change his style (he was already quite different before his 2014 knee injury). The reason why Cristiano became more of a goalscorer is very simple, he saw Messi starting to score ridiculous amount of goals and he became obsessed with scoring at the cost of less prominent skills.
The eye test is also dependent on your football knowledge, for example an average Joe may be amazed by fancy step-overs and tricks that didn’t even progress the play past a defender, while a trained eye can see & be impressed by finer details such as the correlation between small pockets of spaces, simple yet ingenious touches & shrewd split-second decision making, something which the average Joe is unlikely to see. In that regard, Messi is miles ahead of Ronaldo.
The thing with free throws is that you have to win your own free throws to make them. It takes an actual skill to win them and it is a viable, frequent strategy to score a posession. Regarding penalties, it is most often a gifted chance with probability of being scored 79% by an average penalty taker. What ends up happening is that a designated penalty taker that plays for a great team that wins a lot of penalties, will get a lot of easy goal opportunities for which they didn't have to do anything. And since players usually score less than 1 goal per game, scoring a penalty every 4th game will make a huge impact on their statistic... Basketball equivalent would be when someone's teammates step away for him to stat pad rebounds. It is undeserved and not a measure of skill.
Messi not only won the World Cup to shut the debate off, he won Copa America a year before he won the WC. The debate was over right there and then. Messi also now has the most trophies in football history. It's over and no one is reaching his numbers. Ronaldo is second for sure, then comes Pele. Maradona wasn't as great as any of Messi, Ronaldo or Pele. But sadly Ronaldo will be the only person on that list without a World Cup.
I think Maradona was much better than Ronaldo. Maradona won less, but in more difficult conditions and without aiming to play for the best teams in the world, he even reached 2 World Cup finals, of which he won 1. But as a player in general, he stood out far above the great players of his time. It is no coincidence that football history remembers him as one of the best or as the best. I consider that having won what he won with Napoli in the most difficult league in the world at the time is a stratospheric achievement, taking into account that he played for a team that was by no means one of the best in Italy, much less in the world. Ronaldo began to win in what was already one of the best teams in the world surrounded by very good players (Manchester United) and then he played in the best team in history if we talk about total awards (Real Madrid). Ronaldo's Real Madrid could have won a lot without Ronaldo because of its great players, but Napoli would never have been champions of anything if they had not had a player like Maradona. As for Messi, I believe that Barcelona would not have been up to the task of competing against the Madrid of its time if it had not been for Messi. Although Barcelona was always a good team, it was never one of the best teams in the world until the arrival of Messi. Before Messi, Barcelona had 48 titles in its history, but Messi during his stay at the club won 35 titles, meaning that in a little more than a decade he won three-quarters of all the trophies in the club's history.
Eye test - outside of headers, Messi does far more to make the beautiful game more beautiful. His goals are incredible, and his assists are art in motion.
The thing about the Maradona vs Messi debate is that we've having it since Messi was 20 or something. Before he even won his first ballon d'or. But you know how sports fans are. They form an opinion and they stick to it.
The thing about it is that Maradona needs the World Cup to be Maradona while Messi it’s already Messi without it, in reality there wasn’t a debate since having a career like Messi it’s way more dificulty than having a moment of brilliance and then nothing more out of that.
I love Ronaldo, but this shouldnt be a debate, its is obvious that Messi is better. he won everything, leads the top of every statistics being top 1-3.
Bdo, golden boots, titles (individual and group), motm, assists, dribling, 360 vision, key passes, goals, etc etc the goat 🐐 no questions
It was never a debate. This "debate" was always forced bc of their respective clubs and bc they shared the era. Messi was always miles ahead of Ronaldo. Messi also now wins in all 4 categories after winning the copa America and world cup.
Kids who watching football since 2022 be like:
@@Ali-ov6my0 ball knowledge CZcams shorts football watcher be like:
@@Ar17778 you're a copydog you know ?
A crazy stat is that Messi has won the MOTM award in 52% of his matches.
He is the probably the all time leader in that regard, while the closest to him in second place is obviously Ronaldo, who has won it in 30% of his matches (still insane numbers)
You also have to put in to perspective that both achieved that, while beeing in some of the best teams of all time.
I think why he took away the penalty goals, is because a penalty has verry high x/g, cause the player is only up against the goal keeper and any football player is expected to score these (average around 75% of the time).
Messi is btw the worse penalty taker of them two, since Ronaldo has the higher amount and average.
It still is seriously impressiv, that Messi overtook Ronaldo, if one considers how many more matches Ronaldo played, compared to Messi.
On the note of Messi having more outside of the box goals, yes he does have more than Ronaldo, but Ronaldo’s attempts outside the box are usually from further distance, a lot further.
Which can be impressive if he does score, but at the same time if he misses then he just gave a away possession because of a bad decision.
Lo after Ronaldo left Manchester United he became "pass to me" man. He'd run into the box and let people pass to him then he'd tap in.
And yet never in CR fans club they will said the name who is the one most assist CR every year. Is like CR play solo 1 vs 11 enemy player.
Each talking messi they always mock messi get help by dmaria (well bcos he madrid player too), iniesta xavi, ronaldinho, suares neymar... But for CR never i heard who the one support him.
I'd generally agree with the likes of Jose Mourinho, Diego Simeone and Sir Alex Ferguson sentiments. Messi is more of a system player, who when surrounded by the best, he shines a lot and his skill set is unlocked to impact the game more.
But Ronaldo has individual ability that is not as reliant to teammates. Mourinho said "It is much harder to be Ronaldo, than it is to be Messi", for he said Messi for the most of his career has been freed from defensive duty and the entire system revolves around him. Which, of course, makes sense - if you're Barcelona, of course you'd do that. But it should be taken into account.
Sir Alex Ferguson said - Messi is a Barcelona player, but Ronaldo can play for Crystal Palace and score a hat-trick. That's why we see Messi's numbers drop when playing for Argentina's national team and when he left Barcelona and played for PSG. Because you don't have a system specifically designed for him and his team-mates trained to be cohesive in that system.
Diego Simeone(he is an Argentinian coach, coaching Atletico Madrid) had a leaked private conversation, where in the audio you hear him say "I prefer Ronaldo". At the next press conference before a match, they asked him if he really preferred Ronaldo to his country-man Messi and he answered - you don't know the context, the context of the conversation was about who I'd prefer to have in Atletico Madrid and I said Ronaldo, because Ronaldo can slot in and make instant impact, while when Messi is surrounded by the best, he shines more.
All in all, one can say history is history and what's in the past is in the past, but Messi's numbers are rather inflated by quite the margin, because when we watch him play in teams and systems that are not specifically tailor-made for him, he still is absolutely fantastic, but he wouldn't have the same numbers. And the debate to be had would be different, simply because Messi has received preferential treatment of proportions that have never existed for any other player - at least not to the same extent and to the same period(of more of a decade). And it is understandable, because he's absolutely amazing, but it definitely skews things if the "playing field" was the same.
For penalty. It’s a lil weird because most of the time. You didn’t create that penalty. For free throws it’s different. Hormis for tech.
So yes, you have to score a pen and it’s still important. But when you know that 3/4 pen are in and that the player who shot the pen didn’t create the pen…it’s a lil harder to give him full credit for that
Wasting time comparing. Messi is the GOAT. Messi has proven at the highest level. Messi’s record speaks for itself.
And most the people commenting in this video have never seen Ronaldo or Messi in their prime, they just say what other people told them
Maradona didn’t do himself many favors with his activities off the pitch. Imagine if he wasnt surrounded by enablers
I was lucky enough to get a chance to see Ronaldino play, he was such a joy to watch, he will go down as one of the games most skilful players , his tricks , shooting abilty and no look passes was outrageous,
Both Maradona and Pele were much better players than Ronaldo Everyone knows that, only kids think otherwise
You simply cannot compare Messi with Ronaldo, or with anyone else. You cannot compare the sun to the moon. The sun shines on its own, but the moon just reflexes the light of the sun.
And that wasn't counting the America's Cup and the World Cup.
Messi actually wins the first category now since hes won the copa America, finilismia, and world cup being the best player in all tournaments
In football you don't have to earn a penalty to take a penalty shot, just like a technical free throw in basketball where you leave it to your best shooter... so most penalties scored by a player originally came from another player earning a foul inside the box, basically your teammate gifts you a penalty shot
There is no debate here, Messi is the GOD of Football
1) You have to be careful with eye tests. Evaluating a player through observation is on occasion wrong. They may appear to be great but make many errors. Passing percentage may be not so great. Same with the shooting percentage. Sometimes these tests ends up being an illusion. 2)I do not put as much stock in MVPs, the number of championships won, etc as other do. These days, since the playing field is a lot more level, one player is not going to have nearly as much of an influence on a team as opposed to maybe the pre 1990s. Also, there is some bias when voting for awards comes into play. While I am not so sure about voting for European awards, but in America, very often, awards end up being a popularity contest. 3)In the end, I consider Messi to be the goat.
1) I agree with you and this is something that I’ve debated a lot. I don’t like the eye test as an individual category, but I do see its value when filtered through other tangible measures
2) yes bro, the US is almost strictly popularity contest at the pro level. That’s why QBs almost always win the MVP in football.
3) Agreed
@@CoreyMcKinneyFC Another example of the eye test is Derek Jeter with his fielding skills. His fielding looks pretty with all of his diving and picking up the ball and getting the player out. This is pure optics since Jeter makes a lot of errors and has poor range. These eye tests is partly why certain sports teams gravitates more towards analytics and others rely more on scouting.
@@angusmcwhorter9012 this is a safe space from the baseball bros, because that opinion on Jeter can get you cussed out 🤣 you’re absolutely right though! Flashy only means something when efficiency and stats match the play!
@@CoreyMcKinneyFC For Messi and Ronaldo this can be a fair shot.
Those two are probably the most observed individuals in the history of the sport.
Almost any step of their career was filmed, they were both at the top of the game from a verry young age and since people tend to follow certain players during the game, given that both have the biggest fan support, most eyes must have been on them.
Was waiting for this reaction
Long overdue
open play goals are harder to score
Both are Truly and Purely Amazing, in my eyes they are like the symbol of Yin&Yang☯️ but If I were in a position to choose only one of them I'll go with Messi. 🤷🏻♂️✌️
It is Obvious that Messi is the GOAT, but at the Time of Maradona, he was undoubtly the best by far, and he not only won a World cup, he played 2 world cup finals, and lead NAPOLI (a usually Serie B italian team) to be the League Winner twice (was the best league at that moment) and to be European champion and italian cup champion, all of that WITH A TIER B CLUB. Maradona never played or wanted to play in the best team of the world, he was a mad dog that wanted to carry a lower team to the top. He even have churches in his name in Naples. And Above all of that, he was the face of the poor leading the victory against the rich and all the world loved that, his good side was always an example to the young generations, but his bad side overshadowed his awesome achievements. The ballon d'or was an european exclusive award at his time, that the only reason why he never won it, because he was from southamerica.
Still as per fifa, Pele would have won 7 and Maradona would have won 2
He was beautiful to watch but that's only the highlights
He wasn't as consistent and didn't perform day in and day out like Messi and Ronaldo did
But obviously we can't compare players like Ronaldo and Players like Maradona
Both are very different. One if beautiful and one if effective
When it comes to Messi. He is gifted and hardworking enough to be both beautiful and effective at the same time
Simply the G.O.A.T🐐👽🥶✨
@@Inquisitive_Nomad Both Maradona and Pelé were absolute geniuses in their time, both changed the history of football forever (for the better) and it was a pleasure to see them play, it is true that Pelé won 3 World Cups but he only played in 2 complete ones because he was injured in one of them. but in general in Pelé's time Brazil was absolutely the best team with or without Pelé. In Maradona's time the competitiveness was much more Professional, even Maradona along with Matthaus and other players were the ones who promoted and fought to create the players' union in order to protect and ensure the professionalism of football. Maradona was a decisive and outstanding player in an era of many great players such as Platnini, Zico, Rummenigge, Butragueño, Pfaff, Scifo, lineker, Hugo Sanchez, Ancelotti, Van Basten, Rijkaard, Gullit, and more... Maradona stood out in a time in which every tactic against him was aimed at kicking and injuring him. I dare say that at the peak of his career, Maradona was more technical than Messi, taking into account the state of the fields and the constant effort to not only dribble the ball but also evade malicious kicks. Maradona led 2 Argentine teams that were not candidates for the championship to the World Cup final, of which he won 1. Both Maradona and Pelé were undoubtedly the best of their times, and I have no doubt that they would be extremely good players today. They stood out in a historical moment in which the health of the players was secondary and the rules were not so rigorous.
Both football legends.
@@MatiasDypala Pele & Maradona both had to play with leather balls in their time. These things were as heavy and hard as rocks when soaked in a wet game, still they looked effortless working with that, now imagine what they can do with a modern ball.
you can count aswell Cristiano Ronaldo did it with a lot more teams in different leagues while Messi has not be successful anywhere else that at barca
Zip ball made a updated comparison video in late 2023. And honestly that's all that pretty much matters. After this summer whatever they do doesn't matter anymore unless it's the world cup
I mean winning the any of the major international trophies would matter like the euros/copa america
When it comes to the outside the box goals, Ronaldo has scored from further out than Messi, and that's what you see in the compilations, but Messi has a lot more goals that are outside the box, but not too far outside the box. That's where the difference lies
Aight your friend Luke needs to watch and react to this, and I personally need you two to talk about it together. Please make it happen
imo in messi's playstyle, no one can come close to him. but if you look at ronaldo's playstyle, i personally doubt anyone can come close to him as well. it's like we debate these 2 but in their own ways and styles they are leagues above the rest.
I think you are absolutely right
Winning is more about your teammates. It’s a team game. Sometimes it depends on luck as well. So the best way to judge a player is to judge purely on his ability.
Basic stats like goals and assists won’t give you the full picture. Only casual fans would read so much into it.
Haaland has a lot of Goals and Assists? Then?
Haaland scores a lot, it means that everyone in ManCity are creating for him, instead of creating for each other to have everyone scoring.
The TOTAL number of goals that ManCity scores is not going to be increased because Haaland is there. He just takes away the number of goals his teammates could have scored.
Assists? A miscontrol in front of the goal that bounces off towards his teammate can be considered as an assist. It doesn’t mean Haaland has the creativity of Firmino creating goals for his teammates.
English fans and a lot of casual fans overrate G/A and efficiency. They forget that where do G/A comes from. They are from build up play. If you have a high G/A but you don’t have much build up play contribution, it means that you are just taking the G/A from your teammates, because the TOTAL overall G/A of your TEAM, won’t increase if you don’t add more build up play into it.
I’d like to pushback on this just a bit. Random assists as you described do not occur consistently enough to be an elite category. Haaland is certainly a great goal scorer. However, Haaland does not stack up in any other category to these two. The efficiency matters when all other measures are considered
@@CoreyMcKinneyFC
Build up play has become more important in the modern game.
Modern teams are more compact vertically. Which means the distance between their strikers and their defenders are closer. They defend with 11 players forming a block.
Therefore, you need 11 creative players to break down that block. That’s why modern defenders and goalkeepers are required to be so much more technical on the ball.
In the past, being a goal hanger isn’t that big of a trade off, because your team could still be able to create through a 4 men defence. But nowadays, you can’t afford to be one man down in the build up process because you are facing 11 defenders.
This is why modern football has become more “TOTAL”. A striker’s job is not just finishing, but also defending and creating. Otherwise your team would be in a numerical disadvantage in the defensive/build up phase.
The same applies to defenders and goalkeepers. Being “TOTAL” not only means you are not in a disadvantage in other phases, it allows more position swapping opportunities to break down those low blocks, hence more tactical flexibility. This is why serving the system has become so much more important in modern football.
Those statistics are outdated. Messi ended up winning copa america, finalissima & the world cup for Argentina. He also won his 8th ballon d’oro & his second golden ball.
Personally im a Messi guy, but both are 2 of the greatest of all-time, I recently spoke to a friends kid about this, he asked me who I prefer, I said Messi, but what does it matter who's better in my opinion, both have been unbelievable, we've not seen a guy this good, probably since Maradona, and we were lucky enough to see 2 at the same time, we get great players in every generation (Zidane, Ronaldinho, R9, Thierry Henry, etc) but these guys aren't once in a general, they're once in a lifetime, you might be 50 odd when you see just one this good again (my mate's son is currently 8) sure there'll be great players again, but at that level, that's rare
As a Messi let me tell you why it matters to me. For the longest time these tow guys dominated football. It was always who’s the better player and it was Messi or Ronaldo for years.
A lot of people always assumed if anyone won a WC it would be R7 because Portugal was has better teams the majority of the time.
It was always they can’t be the GOAT because they haven’t won’t a WC, Messi was being compared to Maradona.
And nobody held a Ronaldo to that standard.
The conversation was whoever wins a WC will obviously be the goat.
Then messi wins one and then the R7 fans want to claim th at they are both GOAT. Nah fam keep the same energy, saying that whoever wins one will be the GOAT.
@andrewhp9754 what does that matter, yes its annoying but I don't judge either by what other people say, I just believe they've both been great, I just appreciate both, it doesn't have to be one or the other, yes I prefer Messi but like I said to Sam (my mate's kid) why does it have to be a tribal thing
@@mrmr5580 I get what you mean, but let me tell you now it’s going to get worse.
Since people are making the whole why can’t we appreciate them both, or both are goats.
Ronaldo fans went the longest time saying R7 was better than Messi for whatever reason.
Now they don’t have anything they want to make the argument that they are both great.
I’ve been a Messi fan for years, let me tell you as his fans in which he lost the WC, people ate him alive. Maradona even said he didn’t have the passion.
As his fan we defended him for years from so much slander. The R7 fan base was eating us alive when he lost those finals. Or stepped down from international football.
It’s a pride thing, and the love you have for a player.
Messi himself said he appreciates all the fans that defend him for any years.
I was getting in arguments with friends and getting destroyed with comments of Messi missing a penalty or anything. But I was always a fan saying he was the GOAT. I’ve never said R7 wasn’t an all time great. But I would never make fun of him like R7 fans did to Messi.
So to me it’s about that, we supported a player for so many years. Cried when he lost the WC and other finals. I always believed he was one of the greatest of all time if not the GOAT. But people kept saying he needed a WC to get that title.
So what does he do, win one and now R7 fans are saying that they are both great. Nah fam there’s no both when all those years you kept claiming R7 was better because Portugal was more stacked for the WC or won the euros.
@andrewhp9754 I agree itll make some CR7 fans even more unbearable, but ive never let them bother me, I just appreciate that both guys have been great, I was actually at the Arsenal 2-1 Barcelona in 2011, after Arshavin's goal every timecthe ball went near Messi I was cacking myself, (in the 2nd leg in Barcelona he absolutely murdered us) I can tell you Messi is the best player I've ever seen
@@andrewhp9754I mean the toxicity always existed within both fan bases at extreme levels. Remember fans at the Bernebeu cheering for Ronaldo to off himself and making fun of his deceased father? Whenever we talk about these two we can’t ignore Madrid and Barcelona and the history there, in terms of actual cultural differences between the two that stems way beyond football. And even with the notion of Portugal’s teams being stronger, it was only because there were more players playing for European clubs and Argentina. As for individual talent and cohesiveness, it’s pretty much always been Argentina. A lot of Argentinian players didn’t make the move, not because they weren’t good enough, but for the same reason a lot of Brazilians stayed in Brazil as well, it was home and the league was good enough.
Messi and Ronaldo being better than Maradona and Pele isn't controversial. It is a fact. They have better stats, more trophies and everything else other than 3 WCs.
I think that’s a bit unfair. Maradona and especially Pele was viciously kicked off the field without repercussions. Pele missed most of the 1962 and 1966 world cup because of it. Offensive and creative players are much more protected these days. Including goals from friendly matches showed Peles big ego. But on the other hand, the only times Santos played top European teams was during those exhibition tours. And Pele regularly scored two and three goals against those top teams. Even though they traveled and slept kind of rough for those tours. In my opinion there is a debate to be had between Messi and Pele all though I would vote for Messi. I think Ronaldo and Maradona cannot compare to either of them.
Ronaldo is nowhere close to both Maradona and Pele
Only Messi has a stake in being better than them. Cristiano is clearly below all 3.
I am happy to be bless to witness the Goat Messi.
The fact that GOAT debate already ended long before Messi won the WC but yeah Ronaldo's fan keeps won't accept it.
Messi is undisputed goat now.
i’m fed of ppl that are a fan of one and can’t accept that the other is good aswell
Same
Yes this video is statistically crazy. 📢
Real Madrid's president influence what makes ronaldo into this debate ... he won 4 ballon d'or thanks to his daddy Perez .... look what happened to him the moment he left madrid ..... no awards & no big trophies too
Can’t say that when Messi is currently in the top 10 for Ballon D’or voting this year.
@@jaygotgame1731 will he is for sure in a top 10 ... individually ,,, no one comes close to him until he retire
@@nio5844 He hasn’t done anything to warrant being in the top 10 this season. Individually, he’s not performing better than the likes of someone like Wirtz, yet Wirtz isn’t even in the top 10.
Messi is the best player that has ever lived. No doubt in my mind. The thing is…. It isn’t even close.
For me…. R7, Pele, Maradonna and R9 - make up in the top 5. In whatever order you prefer.
The levels for me goes like (outside keepers)
Top 5 league ballers (eg: Mbappe, Suarez, KDB, Neymar, Xavi, Iniesta,etc.) < Generational ballers(eg: Maradona, Ronaldinho, R9, Cruyff, etc.) < GOATS
Now for me, GOATS also has levels (regardless of world cup)
Pele < Cr7 < Messi
Mardona wasn't on my Goat list because he was inconsistent and paired with other aspects of his character that affected his career, which in my eyes feel like what happened to Ronaldinho as well.
(I am not old enough to properly place them and am only going by currently available football history, but even then Pele is on the top 3 because of his impact on football as a whole, not saying Maradona did not have a stellar impact, but he's not exactly the ideal player or person is he, whether it be doping or being inconsistent and highly temperamental)
Messi, Messi, Messi...
Nunca houve discussão sobre esse confronto . Cr7 sempre puxou essa rivalidade , mas Messi é muito superior, ele é o Goat único
I think any opinion of Ronaldo is ok but holding him to the standard to the World Cup is unfair tho, outside of 2010 and 2006 there was no proper squad. Ronaldo’s prime was 2008-17 and the teams he had were garbage. Fernando Santos also doesn’t understand football either but his formation is very untraditional and doesn’t have any organization. The 2022 team was good with Felix, Leao and Bernardo but the coach didn’t play a 4-3-3-3 formation instead he played a weird formation that didn’t suit the players right and he blamed Ronaldo for the issues. They didn’t have a good time but they time they did Ronaldo was 37, why didn’t make a good roster when he was in his prime
That video need to be updated
Corey! You need to look at maradonna’s effect on the Italian side Napoli………not saying he compares to Messi but he was special
Hard to compare, because they play different positions, both goats on their spots.
Dixie Dean scored 473 goals in 502 appearances for club and Country, which makes him better than Messi.
You should react to: when was messi in his prime
Goat💜
This video is a example of factos 😅
it's 4 - 0 now...Messi Sweeps 🐐👑. This Was A FORCED debate !!
Longtime Bayern, German national team & most importantly, football fan here.
We were fortunate to have a good track record against Messi & Co.
It took a us a complete dismantling of 8 goals on aggregate to be comfortable and say we took Messi down.
I don’t think there’s anyone who can do or will do what he does. I’m happy to have watched him play in person. The vision, skill & pure instinct for goal is unreal. I don’t understand how he can be compared to anyone. Unfortunately for Ronaldo he existed at the same time Messi did. Messi is just pure wizardry
Great reaction and video although tbh this video is out of date by about 4 years. Messi has since won a Copa America, finalissima and World Cup so wins all 4 categories. Just 🐐 things 🤣 although personally for me even if he never won anything internationally he would still be the best as historically Argentina have always totally relied on Messi, not realizing football is a team sport and even a 🐐 can't be everywhere 🤨
Players with the most Goals scored in history:
1. 🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo (885)
2. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (826)
3. 🇦🇹 Josef Bican (805)
Players with the most Assists in history: [Opta Assists only]
1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (363)
2. 🇭🇺 Ferenc Puskás (359)
3. 🇳🇱 Johan Cruyff (358)
Players with the most Dribbles Completions in history: [Since 2006-07 season by Opta]
1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (2,358)
2. 🇧🇪 Eden Hazard (1,285)
3. 🇨🇵 Franck Ribéry (1,061)
Players with the most France Football Ballon d'Ors in history:
1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (8)
2. 🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo (5)
3. 🇳🇱 Johan Cruyff (3)
Players with the most FIFA The Best Awards in history:
1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (8)
2. 🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo (5)
3. 🇨🇵 Zinedine Zidane (3)
Players with the most FIFA World Cup Golden Ball Awards in history:
1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (2)
2. 🇦🇷 Diego Maradona (1)
3. 🇩🇪 Oliver Kahn (1)
Players with the most European Golden Boots in history:
1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (6)
2. 🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo (4)
3. 🇺🇾 Luis Suárez (2)
Players with the most MOTMs in history: [Domestic Leagues + Champions League since 2009-10 season]
1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (318)
2. 🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo (168)
3. 🇸🇪 Zlatan Ibrahimović (116)
Players with the most IFFHS World’s Best Playmaker Awards in history:
1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (5)
2. 🇪🇦 Xavi Hernández (4)
3. 🇧🇪 Kevin De Bruyne (3)
Players with the most International Player of the Tournament Awards in history:
1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (7)
2. 🇺🇾 José Nasazzi (3)
3. 🇧🇷 Pelé Arantes (2)
Players with the most Major Trophies in history:
1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi (44)
2. 🇧🇷 Dani Alves (43)
3. 🇪🇦 Andrés Iniesta (37)
Players with the most Individual Awards in history:
1. 🇦🇷 Lionel Messi
2. 🇵🇹 Cristiano Ronaldo
3. 🇧🇷 Ronaldo Nazário
Has any Player dominated their Sport like Messi did? 🤔
If the fifa and the media with me and I'm playing in one club and one league I can do better
@@Ali-ov6my cry all you like bro
@@Papa_G_Weezy why ??? Why I'm supposed to cry ?? Because I know that Ronaldo is better than Messi but the fifa was with him ?? Nah who cares? Nothing is matter if I know the truth
@@Ali-ov6my Your are angry and crying inside that's why you're replying otherwise you would have Ignored , It's a Fact Messi is above all
@@animal-rights Messi is above everyone I agree, but in robbery, and no I'm not angry, I replied because I pity delusional people like you, that's it
Messi is a better player Ronaldo is a better athlete you can put them in any sport and he will be in the top, but Messi just plays better.
Nah
The thing about Messi’s outside of the box stats, it is that they are done mainly done inches or feets away from the box which still counts them as outside of the box while Ronaldo’s are long range one from meters away.
Moron alert
Dude, please, it´s over.
Whilst Messi and C. Ronaldo are probably two of the best ever players to play the sport. Their time is basically over and entering the retirement phase. Maybe it's time you check out some other players, like up and coming players. Or just anyone other than them.
Thank you!
I think is good to look for legendary players because You Will have a standard of what great is, SO in the future You can juegue better if a young player can reach that level or is puré hype
There is no “one main job” in modern football.
“A defender is bought to defend”?
So as long as he is great at defending, he can keep passing the ball to the opponent, and avoiding the ball when his teammates are passing to him?
Haaland is just a goal hanger. He is a massive liability in the build up.
As a result, his team will have less and lower quality of possession, ball progression and chance creation, which will eventually reduce the total number of goals his team can score.
Three times against Arsenal this season. Haaland is invisible, and registered an extremely low xG.
If ManCity had played a tekky/creative false 9 instead, Arsenal would not be able to defend. Because ManCity’s tiki taka play would be so much more dangerous, it’s like they have 16 players on the pitch.
The purpose of football is to maximise the TOTAL number of goals your TEAM could score. It doesn’t matter if you score 50 goals a season if you are the reason your team is scoring less in total.
bro , this camparioson is totally bias , this stats doesn't show how much the each of them contributed to win the trophies and did they deserve those individual achivements , and the different leagues they played . i don't think this camparioson accurate to decide who is better , if you wanna see why we like cristiano ronaldo more than messi watch this video "the man who can do everything "
Oh ok ur video is not biased 😂😂😂😂😂
@@koukihayashi8693 bro that video isn't a comparison video it's only about Cristiano
i am a fan of both but sorry, statistics show messi is better
@@m_emetube bro messi has better statistics were good when he was in barca but how good he was at PSG, that's what I'm saying numbers doesn't show how good you were in different leagues but Ronaldo proved himself with 5 different teams and in 4 different leagues ,
@@user-fm7hb9ze9q Messi won the best foreign player award and have 20+ respective goals & assists in his 2nd season (Vini Jr was the only other player in Europe to do it) all while Messi wasn’t even the main man up front if you have watched PSG’s games. He won the French league & cups in his two seasons there and if you consider that a flop, then Ronaldo also flopped at Juventus by the same standards as both of them failed to deliver the UCL, and the funny thing is, despite Ronaldo having a respectable personal goal tally there, Juve actually scored less as a team as per stats due to them altering their playstyle to accommodate him.
The narrative about Ronaldo conquering the 3 main leagues have been blown out of context, he has always joined teams who were already winning championships prior to his arrival - Man Utd 7 of the past 11, Juve 9 straight Scudetti, Real Madrid only 2 league titles of the 9 years there he spent at his peak.
Phenomenal player, yes but there is so much misinformation/ false narratives spread by the CR7 fan pages on social media to size up Ronaldo and discredit Messi to the point it’s frustrating to see as a football fan.
Why can’t we just enjoy both with the little time thats left of them ? The football world will no longer be the same without them.
Cristiano is a phenomenal player and goal scorer. But Messi is something else. His powers come from some divine intervention. Greetings from Argentina, tierra de Diego & Lionel ! 🇦🇷
They always say that Ronaldo’s biggest accomplishment will be getting compared to Messi!!
Está bien lo que dice de MARADONA su comparación con Messi, lo que pasa que el peso de Maradona (para nosotros, los argentinos) tiene que ver con muchas otras cosas que ocurren en la vida y que van mas allá del Futbol, es un símbolo de nuestra identidad (para bien y para mal) habría que recurrir a la Sociología para aproximarse a una Respuesta. It is good what his comparison with Messi says about MARADONA, what happens is that Maradona's weight (for us, Argentines) has to do with many other things that happen in life and that go beyond Soccer, he is a symbol of our identity (for better and for worse) we would have to resort to Sociology to come up with an Answer.
As an Argentine Messi is the GOAT and has been, since I'm only 20 I've grown up with him, but in most Argentine's eyes Maradona was/is the best because of the World Cup. In Argentina, they do not care so much about what you do in Europe it is about what you do for your country. Another point is Maradona's eccentric personality aligns more closely with the Argentine spirit, and especially before he won the Copa America, Messi was seen as a coward and somewhat unArgentine by many. I obviously never agreed, but just what many people think.
Igual Nico, lo de Maradona no se reduce solo a lo que dijiste... El "eye test" de Maradona es una locura, lo talentoso que era para manipular la pelota es algo que no se ha visto en ningún jugador. Las estadísticas y la constancia lo condenan.
Maradona es ese jugador que uno quisiera que pudiera renacer para guiarlo en su crecimiento y ver lo que es capaz de lograr si hace las cosas bien y va a los equipos indicados.
The video is a bit outdated since Messi did win the 2021 Copa America and 2022 World Cup so the international career criteria has to go to Messi now.
Agreed
No you cannot compare FREE THROWS to PENALTIES… free throws are taken by the originally fouled player but penalties are taken by the teams penalty taker regardless of wether he was involved in the build up leading to the foul in the box or not. So a player can take credit for someone else’s work. Which Ronaldo does a lot. For example a player dribbles past 3 players and gets taken down in the box, Ronaldo was not involved but will be take the penalty and score stealing the players credit and goal opportunity.
Messi also takes penalties but he shares them a lot with his teammates. And he takes way less than Ronaldo which is why the video mentioned that in the statistics segment
Now if we go into more detail for the number of team trophies and individual trophies, Messi leaves CR7 in the dust behind him without any shadow of a doubt.
All in all a good video from the original maker and your thoughts reacting to it, but it's sadly a little out of date as evident by Messi's 3 international trophies not being there at the time of the original creator making his video.
Now messi not only takes Ronaldo but everyone else in history interms of trophies he has won 43 or 44 most trophies won by anyone in football history. Won everything with club and COUNTRY (something that was missing for 18 years of his career but he ended that drought) and became the Greatest of all time and there will always be those who debate and they can debate all they want but stats says otherwise you can't ignore stats they'll smack you in the face
It's silly to compare footballers, and attempt to define the " greatest of all time " .
In the past , balls were heavier, and pitches rougher.
And how could anyone say a goalkeeper who saves lots of goals is inferior to a striker that scores them ?
And any footballer is only as good as the team around them.
A good team will beat a team of individualistic players, however talented.
And messi also won the copa America
Bro react to current stats not old stats disappointed
Since this video messi has won copa america bieng the MVP and world cup 2022 being mvp
Ronaldinho is the GOAT.
Messi and CristianoRonaldo can’t compare to Ronaldinho’s prime.
The premadrid CristianoRonaldo was more skillful than both Messi and the later version of himself.
The numbers say otherwise friend 🤷🏻♂️
Fake Henry shut it .He his the indeed a very skillful player but not the best striker,passer, play maker etc
Ronaldinho isn't even close to them. He doesn't have the numbers or the trophies to match that. And what Ronaldinho's prime? Messi won three Ballon Dors before reaching 23, and had 91 goals in a year, that's probably half of what Dinho scored.
@@nikdik154
Another casual fan that just read into simple stats and not seeing the bigger picture.
Are you saying Haaland is better than R9 because of stats?
Read my replies, you will then understand.
@@thierryhenry674no, R9 had achieved more than Haaland and Haaland hasn't played for 20+ years. Ronnie didn't achieve more than what Messi or Ronaldo did. His career was cut short because of his off field antics. Messi has a World Cup, possibly twice as much goals and assists than Ronnie and many more. What a naive statement you said. Haaland isn't close to what Messi has achieved. It's not remotely the same thing.
just the world cup buddy? He has copa america 2021, finalissa against euro champs, and the WC...as for eye test, there is no competition between those two, two are very different, but Leo since beginning has been considered as maradona's successor for several reasons, one of it is because he has the stuff of legends in his style of play, that eye-catching "Wow" thing...cristiano, except few goals in his career, if rest of his goals and gameplay presense is considered as overall, is not even near messi's level...even mbappe has more overall gameplay presence nowadays than the "perfect striker" ronaldo...though man-u ronaldo was better than kylian
in football success, i agree that messi is more successful, but for me this does not mean that he is better. ronaldinho is less successful than messi and ronaldo, and he is literally better then both of them ,when you see the numbers and awards of messi and ronaldo, you will think that messi is better, but when you see the story and career of the two in detail, you will know that ronaldo is better. this is what happened to me personally
ronaldina is not even top 15 of all time 😂😂😂
@@captainfalconmain6576 at least top 10 , at least
@@Ali-ov6myman can’t even keep his fake agenda straight…💀 you just said r10 is better then both and then you say he’s top 10 at least lmao you are a different creature for sure… and why defend Ronaldo in every other comment if R10 is the goat??
the debate ended when messi beat ronaldo so many times
Like Ronaldo didn't win so many times ??? Delusional
@@Ali-ov6mymessi has much better stats vs Ronaldo in games then the other way around haha…
@@Ar17778 haha funny, you're talking like Real Madrid were a better team than Barca from 2009 to 2012, what made Messi has a better stats is Barcelona, and you should understand that stats and awards aren't everything, Messi has more assists then modric and kroos , is that make him better in assisting and playmaking? No, absolutely No
@@Ali-ov6my and your talking like Madrid were a second division side, Madrid were one of the biggest clubs with world class in every position… same as Barca but they couldn’t win still 2 leagues in 9 years what a joke 😭 and yes you are factually correct Messi has more assist then Kroos and modric so tell me how does your tiny delusional brain then think that they both have better passing playmaking? Compare modric and kroos stats together against Messi and he still probably wins
@@Ali-ov6my so you genuinely think modric or Kroos are better playmakers then THE best playmaker the world has ever seen? Yeah this is why most the world hates madrid fans they’re nothing but clueless glory hunters but Jesus Christ you are a different breed of 🤡
25:08 bro no maradona is more than that he is not known for stats
His playing style is the best ever like messi
He carried Argentina to another wc final
And he carried Napoli at that time one of the worst teams in italy he carried them to league and won some trophies too
He is a midfielder that's why his stats are low and actually he ruined his career man 🥲
This video is a perfect example of people failing to understand statistics and epistemology. Things don't magically become "objective" or "logical" because you use numbers and matrixes. Why would all competitions be worth the same number of points? Why wouldn't you take the preconditions of each country into account when ranking international wins (Portugal is a much smaller nation, European tournaments are more competitive, etc)? Why wouldn't you include individual awards (football is a team sport, teams win or lose - even if an individual is good - ergo, why not place more weight on individual achievements)? Why would you use these statistics and not others? Why not take position into account? Why no measurements concerning tactical awareness? Or defensive abilities? Or physique? Leadership? Etc etc etc. Not to mention that many of these statistics are interpreted in a sloppy way (the assumptions needed for the inference being made are not met). My point: It's impossible to "measure" footballers objectively. Your choice of metrics and how you weigh them is based on subjective opinions. These are well-grounded opinions, not facts.
It's not impossible. You're raise some false points: of course we wouldn't measure each competition by the same number of points. No one is saying that about either of these guys. I'm certainly not saying that Messi's time here in MLS is more valuable that Ronaldos in the EPL, that would be dumb. To your point of Portugal being smaller than most European countries: you are right. That's why I believe Ronaldo got the nod for the international performances, until Messi won the World Cup. I don't care how small or big your country is, a World Cup win is objectively the best thing you can win.
Individual achievement is great, but player awards are oftentimes objective. The example I gave in the video does clarify this, but I'll restate it for the sake of argument. Example: best player is relatively subjective, given that multiple leagues across multiple countries across multiple positions have to be considered and somehow measured. Example: most goals scored is objective. Score the most goals, and guess what? You win.
If we measured physique, how exactly would you like that done? Strength training test? Perhaps an obstacle course for best time? Or are you simply asserting that one of these men looks stronger with his shirt off than the other? My point: this is a futile attempt.
Defensive abilities should have been considered, that's a great rebuttal. Tactical awareness is good too, but I've done a video on that and Messi annihilates everyone in that field. Leadership is a fair one as well, though leadership too can be subjective given the circumstances. I'd say both of these men are great leaders (got a good video on Ronaldo dropping this week that shows just how great of a leader he is).
Your last few sentences are dubious. You can measure footballers objectively, and stats are a great way to do it. Numbers don't care about your feelings. Numbers aren't opinions, they are facts.
This has been a fun comment to interact with sir!
These videos that go off stats alone really make it seem like Messi is the goat, but if you actually look at the reasoning behind what happens you can look at Tj huss, he has a Ronaldo bias, but he can show you the other side of the argument so you can see for yourself
Ronaldo have more tap ins and penalties,
the rest of the stats Dribbling, assist, key passes, MOTMs, POTTs, Trophies, Individual honours, International achievements all goes to Messi
Yes, the comparison that is now over! And I agree with the title.
Corey... "maradona dont do anything outside the worldcup" bro 😂, readme, he go to Italy (the best ligue in that moment) and pick the worst team last place in the table (napoli) and he won 3 ligues consecutive, european cup etc... brother..... is fucking maradona is likw messi in the pitch dribbling and passing all.. literally
Fine, you've convinced me to look into Maradona now lol
@@CoreyMcKinneyFC Diego Maradona • Why is he the best Ever • Ultimate Skill video From "O Bola Nas Costas" (thats the tittle and channel).......... Corey.. that is the best maradona video in ALL YT.. in this video show in 30 minuts passing 4,5 people like messi but in that time referi have no merci DEFENDERS KILLS HIMS and (very rare material to), i see all his videos in yt hard maradona and messi fan, and i know for facts what i am talking about.. i ma messi fan for the beggins his career and (even messi says always..) maradona is the goat in peaks termins (see the video for yourself and compare to messi.. is messi in the 80s 90´s literally) but no consistent like 50 goals per seasson like messi (but they have the same dribble and magic is the only two players above the rest TRUST ME SEE THIS VIDEOS A BOOM.. the jaw is gonna drop u because have thats rare skills videos
Messi won everything this video is years ago there is no debate
👍🤝Messi♾️💫GOAT!!👏👏👏