My Reaction to the Upcoming Carrier Rework 3.0 |
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- Huge announcement on the official stream regarding CVs and Subs. Tons of info so I will be talking about the CV portion only.
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:25 Why did this prototype take so long
2:40 Input
5:32 Disclaimer: early prototype
7:58 Input
12:05 Mode A: Travel Mode
17:25 Input
24:11 Mode B: Attack Mode
25:09 New AA Self Defense Mechanic
28:53 Input
33:45 Each Mode has their own strengths/weakness
34:35 Input
35:53 Manual control of CV secondaries
41:10 Input and closing thoughts - Hry
imo, if these changes go live, the biggest thing that will differentiate the elite CV players from the average ones is gonna be the usage of Travel Mode. As we've seen with Soviet CVs, anything that decreases travel time is incredibly powerful and I feel like not many players realize this strength. Choosing between a mode that decreases flight time vs choosing to spot for your team, on top of the chain-strike on a same target leading to increasing their AA "significantly".. I'm quite open to all changes tbh. I don't think this is a dumb or bad change at all.
But then the cv players will go for damage only and probably do more than now without the spotting but you still get a frustrating experience probably.
I suppose time will tell how this works out, if they implement it that is. Honestly I'm so disheartened with the state of CVs, that i feel like Wargaming has no clue how to "properly" implement Carriers in WoWS. SUBMARINES fit better into WoWS then CARRIERS do, and thats saying something. It just feels like they are going from 1 overcomplicated mess to another overcomplicated mess.
RTS CVs certainly had its issues (Skill Gap and Torpedo Bombers where OP cus they where dealing Destroyer Levels of damage), but ya know what, it was FUN and it WORKED for everyone. And the Torpedo bomber damage could have just been nerfed and boom problem solved. Some ships you could not even attack cus their AA was that good, or they had DEF AA equiped.
CV Rework 1, The biggest issues for me are the WAVE BASED Attacks (WHY?! Should have just made every CV like the Russians, 1 squadron, 1 strike.), and the fact that AA Feels inadequate regardless of if your Playing CV or playing Against CVs, particularly at tier 5 though tier 7. When the Rework first dropped their was SO MUCH FLAK their where ships that CVs could not strike (and im TOTALLY OK WITH THAT!) That should be a "trait" of some vessels, their AA is good enough that CVs avoid them unless their AA is heavily Damaged.
Meanwhile on the Surface ship side of things, the amount of FLAK some ships have just feels "arbitrary", like Every US DD has 5 Duel purpose Guns, but from tier 5 to tier 7 you only have ONE FLAK PUFF, WHY?!! What Logic is behind that BS! Every Duel purpose gun should give you 1 flak, and in the case of Cruisers and BBs you split it down the sides. (not the number of Gun Barrals, just the number of turrets) This would most of the time give ships less flak then they currently have, but my god it BUGS ME SO MUCH. And DEF AA is basicly.....MEH, all they did was remove the attack Accuracy debuff (which they should bring back if im totally honest) otherwise it feels like it has NO impact on most planes.
You ether 1 SHOT the whole squadron with FLAK or you don't and have to try to minimize the amount of hits you take.
CV Rework 2, Seems like they are mostly just addressing spotting, the rest of it we will have to PLAY to see how it goes. Although gaining manual control of your Secondary batteries is a nice improvement.
good video and good input reactions and input explanation is clear YES!
I don’t mind the changes, depending on how they end up being implemented. I would add a 4th flight squadron to the CV class, it would be a recon class with a limited number of consumables and possibly even slower flying (as in they are scanning the area so they would be slower), which the spotting mechanic would act just like it does now, but without travel mode and susceptible to the same AA currently in game, but maybe make the defensive AA and fighter consumable even more impactful on this recon group.
From my understanding of the AA’s considered editions, they are making the AA of the ships - I’m pretty certain the buff won’t just apply to the carrier’s target - will become more effective the longer the CV decides to stay in the area. The reason I think that it would be the ships in the area and not just the one being attacked is due to the fact the developers said that this effectiveness would encourage the CV to attack in multiple different areas.
From what I've seen, I think this change would make stealthy DDs more influential than ever since they would be even more burdened by the spotting role. Meanwhile DDs that need "assisted spotting" such as the Italian DD line would be even harder to play unless you play them exclusively in a div with a stealthy DD.
This change would also make cruisers that have radar even more valuable because the battles would be even more emphasized on which team could delete the enemy DDs faster. And since CVs would no longer act as a "soft counter" against these cruisers' positioning, the DD players would have to work even harder on outliving their enemy counterparts. I expect the number of DD players who fall victim to Brisbane/Mino's radar would increase significantly.
All in all, this change is a win for all.... except DDs. While they wouldn't melt due to CV spotting any longer, they would be more likely to get melted through the conventional means.
Edit:
Also, CV sniping strat would no longer involve long range BBs (at least on most cases). This means Malta & United States players would no longer be threatened by the snipers as soon as the battle starts. The same could be said about the T8 CVs, as the infamous '899 strat" could no longer work.
I don't know how it was back then but I would like to try the old pre 2.0 CV gameplay, I really like the map focused gameplay (I don't know if it was OP but it looked really gorgeous to see)
RTS is 1.0 basically. Our current is 2.0. Now we have 3.0 with the upcoming changes. And I agree, RTS looked and played so well but skill gap was far too high between carrier players
@@ReiYukihyo yeah, but I think it's was better, the higher the skill the higher the reward. I literally downloaded the game 1 patch after the 2.0 amd it's one of my biggest regrets
But it was much more balanced in the end even if it was mainly balanced around skill and randomness. Now it doesnt matter what ship you face in a cv with very little exceptions.@@ReiYukihyo
for me it all depends on how close the planes can get to your ship before it goes into attack mode, can it bypass your long range AA for example
If you could spot enemies in attack mode, cant you just pop hydrophone, see the enemy slightly, reposition if you need to and attack? Then you can see the enemy and make further adjustments.
so cant even play the game peacefully any more , so how cv gonna spot dd that's so close to it ?
let's not forget how people use their depth charge attack to get people who don't turn off their AA to reveal themselves
I guess they brought back (the ASW aircraft will do significant damage but not one plane will shot down) the concept countermeasures like Depth charge planes pursuit Aircraft and making the attack aircrafts more vulnerable by Anti Air (which is a concept test in the devvlog) and also aircrafts with Hydrophones.
For submarines I'll expect them to see what they got.
EDIT 1: carriers with cruiser guns can be manually controlled by captains is such a nice idea but this only affects Kaga and GZ.
introducing manual secondaries can lead to a lot of future CVs as well such as the triple-deck Akagi (potentially tier 6) and also Saratoga (with her 203mm gun) so I'm excited
@@ReiYukihyo and some preliminary Carrier designs from the Japanese and the Germans. I expect carriers to fight back in close combat without worrying a destroyer nor a cruiser, 10cm secondaries on the Japanese ones will hurt very bad!
38:35 they want to deal with subs shotguning, by making CV shotguning - like. Addin travelling mode (aka submerge) and taking (aka surfaced). CV planes pop up on you and making atack
CV planes won't "pop up" out of nowhere. Surface ships can see them as long as they are in their spotting range.
@@Harry-tb8yo this is how it works right now, but players can't still notice it and make any defensive move. With 2 altitudes, planes will be traveling faster, its means players will have less time to react, plus ships will not be able to shot planes, untill they start atack run. This is stupidest change that i ever heard of 🤤 plus this is just dumb, ships will spot planes on maximum altitude but planes will not spot ships 🤦♂️
@@user-bp4ik6yr5x Again, surface ships can see the planes while the planes cannot spot the surface ships. The stupidest thing I heard of is that Def AA works against planes, even when they are in travel mode. So the planes are being shot down when they cannot even see where the attack comes from or react to it.
@@Harry-tb8yo ahahha, that's true. If defensive AA will work while planes will be in traveling mode it will be reta******ded 🤣
@@user-bp4ik6yr5x But that's obviously their idea. Instead of making things as simple as possible and just remove plane spotting for teammates. Let them just spot for themselves and a huge chunk of the problems are solved. At least in my opinion.
why introduce STUPID mechanics when all that is needed is teamwork
Because most players play this game as individuals. You know it's true.
They missed an opportunity to allow CVs to have their own manual ASW planes, which enable them to directly attack subs without waiting to be pinged first.
Let people have control of AA and make that lethal if you control it. CV players win as they can target potatoes that aren't paying attention and everyone else wins because if you do pay attention you can do something. That is how it works in War Thunder.
the blind mechanic sounds extremely dumb. the rest could be okay i guess? -depending on how they handle it?
im questioning how a cv can defend against subs/dds crawling around the map edge to snipe them tho. i mean im not a camper, but im also not a veteran in playing CV - i still get frequently targeted by dds and its hard enough to deal with as it is imo
This is going to be a huge mess. They're making a super complicated system that is going to create a skill gap, which was the entire reason for the whole rework.
If you make things this complicated and also want to make planes take more losses, they're created a need for buffs. So you're probably going to see damage buffs to CVs. If you could get 3 strikes off before but can only do 1 or 2 now, youre going to be doing more damage. Welcome to every CV becoming more like Naki.
All of these changes sound way more fun for both sides. It's going to greatly increase the tactics needed to by a good cv player. You may even need to predict where people are and start runs blind.
Its wg i wouldnt expect cv to be hard to play its usually the worst players playing this op class, understandably. There are so many questions of how all of this should work in the end and be enjoyable for both parties.
Not really, they just want to nerf CV to the ground. And make ship players don't bother with fighting against planes. If WG want to make it fair, they will add some gameplay layers to ship-planes interaction. Now AA is easy to use and hard to fail, but atack run for CV is hard to pull of.
There always have been and WILL BE a lot of PLayers complaining about CV's and Subs.
In most cases they don't play those classes or have actually NO IDEA how to play them properly and therefore have NO IDEA how to counter those classes.
No Balance in the World is gonna change that.
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It was the same in a old and bad Game "Navy Field"
i also bet: if you would delete Subs and CV's, those exact same people will start complaining about DD'S.
some people have the weird idea, only Battleships and maby cruisers are manly Ships. Everything else is OP and should not be in the Game bla bla bla
which is kinda funny to me when it comes down to a WW2 Navy game.
Another Game like that, set in WW1 would catch those guys.
The blind mecanic is trash, the secondaries are Nice change
CV so OP that have the worst winning rate compere to other classes in a hand of skilled players
The proposed changes sound incredibly convoluted. While I've only experienced lower tier CV gameplay (4 and 6), I've always seen spotting from CV's as a natural extension of their presence by dint of aircraft operating in the area. As far as the repeated attacks are concerned, I've done coordinated strikes when a second carrier has been on my team but these have always been against targets that have become isolated, either through overextension or due to losses.
I appreciate T8 and T10 are likely very different to 4 and 6 but to me driving off enemy squadrons comes down to working as a team.
DD's can spot all day. CVs have been able to spot day one. Make it make sense. Should you remove the ability for destroyers to spot they spend more time spotting the CVS do.
None of you have ever addressed that.
sorry I am a Legends player lol
but my question is, Will players ever have the option to choose if they want to be in a carrier and or sub battle? yeah wait times might be increased for all involved but i feel it would make for a more consistent and rewarding battle.
Thoughts?
As a fellow legends player, were you around when CVs were first tested ?
no, I joined just a few weeks after carriers.
@camrsr5463 it was a ghost town. CVs had 20m wait times, there was 1-2 human players in dallas or californias and the rest was just bots, and this was with premium containers being offered for games played in the test mode
yikes
This game has so many issues and instead of focusing on they technical errors they spent so many ressources into such a hard experimental fix instead of fixing it the easy way (no more teamspotting or minmapspottin gonly like in a cyclone).9
the whole idea of planes is for spotting. removing this ability makes the planes worthless.
idk about cv flying blind when in travel mode.
it makes you extremely reliant on allies. i don't play the game competitively, but being out of position and mishandling planes are a big enough drawback/punish that could lead to a CV dying too early OR losing all of your planes. relying on the team to cover you and you covering them while adapting to said spotting info was the perfect amount of team dependency for me
People act like CV are so OP, bit don't complain on cruisers infinite salvo by fast reloding and DDs torps.
The only people complaining about cv spotting are the people that need to be spotted since all they do is spam torpedoes from smoke. Seriously fix torpedo relod time if you want balance.
21:08 with this a carrier now has to abide by the same game functions as all other ships. you have to be aware of where the enemy team is and what they have available to them. destroyer spotting will be more valuable than ever now allowing all other classes to see and damage enemy ships. a carrier cant just ape around the map and keep everything spotted 24/7. I think they are taking a good direction with trying to make carriers play by the same rules as everyone else in the game.
also cant wait to drive by someone in my carrier and get citadels XD
29:00 currently japan CV losses more planes that other because of its design - multiple drops. And now thay want to nerf it 🤣. Take a note how many thing they introduced to DEFEND yourself against. CV currently the weakest and hardest class to play. And they want to nerf it to the ground for other players to do not bother with it.👏 Well done. Balancing its when you nerf class because other dont want to learn how to deal with it
Lol, there is 2 types of players. One that think that CV os OP, and the other who played CV
GG they killer all carrier in game.... because the people have no idea how play as a fleet gg.
its no fun for either teams if we "play as a fleet" a bunched up team is near impossible to strike as a CV and the team that is bunched up is also not effective at controlling a map. So overall its a net loss in gameplay.
@@mokoutaiyo That's kind of the thing though. A lot of players complain about not having tools to deal with CV's and subs despite having everything they need if they played as a fleet. All these changes are going to make the game even more complicated for people who already refuse to adhere to the basics.
this is absulotly Abnauxesly bad.... WG is Facing so much Backlash for that shit its gonna be Insane
AA being entirely useless.
They have to completely get rid of CV spotting, no other solution would work. Really, there are only 2 fixes to this joke of a pvp game, 1.) skills based matchmaker, or 2.) a checkbox you can choose if you do not want to be matched with cvs or subs in random.
Why stop there? Why don't we have checkboxes to not play in certain maps or modes? Why also not choose to not play with radar ships? I find radar ships super annoying when playing DDs and I can't do anything about them so I don't want to play with radar ships too. Also a checkbox to not play with DD's or ships with smoke.
@@KazuoLucas choice of map is a great idea. But the other choices is needed because of broken ship classes, devs can fix those instead of check boxes if they are smart enough.....
No change that WG ever does, will weaken CVs or subs, they will always be total BS wimp freecasting classes, it will NEVER be fair gameplay with those. Since the russian client is taking away CV spotting, WG has to throw around a hugely complicated change that is supposed to sound like a consession, but really all changes only make CVs/subs stronger, never weaker. The biggest problem with the game currently is that there is no skills based matchmaker, but a close second is CV/subs are just troll classes, they are not real pvp, instead they just troll the real pvpers while they are trying to play. Game is unplayable because of those issues. Now the russian client solves one of the issues. This could be the death of WG, THAT is why they are making this fake announcement.
The only reason they finally start changing these 2 stupid classes is because of a continuos exodus of players or how wg sees them as wallets. End of discussion.