Engine That Is Better Than 2JZ !
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- čas přidán 27. 11. 2023
- Everything you need to know about German 2JZ - the M50 Engine !
How reliable is it and how to increase the power twice or even 3 times!
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#bmw#m50#2jz#turbo#tuning#motorsport#autosport#upgrade#reliability#m50turbo#m50b25#bmwm#bmws50#bmws52
.....M50. * Uses pic of M54*
Exactly.
says its 2.5 but they have a 2.8 and 3.0 in a M54@@kentmiller4363
That confused me as well
N54 was the German 2jz , 700whp was achievable on stock internals
Nah...Open deck and DI...not even close to JZ spec...
And piss poor reliability
Yeah and bended forged cranks from factory 😂
@@Szymi_D The cranks actually held up good on those motors
Same with the B58. Not to mention the B58 can hold more with the stock block than the N54.
B58 is the modern 2JZ.
Aluminum block👎
well it's alusil, which is a compound most modern engines are made of
besides B58 is mounted in new Supras and it's very well received amongs it's users@@bryandeoliveira5890
@@bryandeoliveira5890 yet you can achieve 800hp from bolt ons
you spelt ford barra wrong
Oil leak
This edit is gold😂
More accurate would be german 1jz, both are 2.5 litre I6
M52B28 is the best one
Nah .@@raxxed
@@ShadX222 then what is
@@raxxed wasn't the m52 an aluminum block?
@@loudwrenchdude yeah but it still handles power well
Thankyou for the content! Great video
Proudly owner of 5x e34- three M50b25s, one b20 and diesel 525tds 😊 daily gonna get superchargered soon
I had that in my 92 525i 5-speed manual. That car was incredible. I beat the living snot out of it. And you're right about the cooling system the only thing that ever left me stranded on it at only one time
M54b30 with a m50 intake manifold swap 🤌 you get your 3.0L and you get that *perfect* flow, toss bigger injectors and a good cam into the mix and your having fun N/A .. go boosted and add rods and pistons along with a standalone and ouuu buddeh!
m50 and m52us are iron block
@orlindimitrov7322 so definitely boost pigs compared to the aluminum blocks, but I'm still learning alot about these motors and cars, just got my first e46 and 330xi with a m54b30. I'm gonna do a m50 intake manifold swap soon after learning about the flow differences and gains, found a whole kit with the misc bits and port match templates
i wouldn't recommend it you lose a lot of low end power@@tyleroutingdyke849
@@tyleroutingdyke849 m52 headers too bro fucking wayyyy wayy better flow xx
@bowieread6355 👀 really now?
Great Video !
The M50 and M60 Both those are free insane and I've tested both to extreme limits and they just keep on going
What do you think about 1.8 20v turbo? For example... AGU?
Maf sensor can be rebuilt, there's a company in Germany that does them. Saves a lot of headache.
could you please comment down what the company called
thanks
It's funny how mecedes fanboys everywhere push the M104 which is simply inferior to the M50 or M54
🤭
Ever heard of the 4.0 turbo online 6 from Australia? The mighty Barra!
Is it streaming at this minute?
Dont you reveal our secrets man!
ai voice over talking about car stuff is lowkey S tier
Yes, got to replace those plastic parts; make sure head bolts do not loosen up as first repair! Just retorque and good to go! Also front fans have shrouds which blocks airflow when fan stops! Catalysts can get clogged and blow thru head gasket; soak overnight in solved and rinse! Coil packs go bad easily! Good luck, OMG!
It just isn't. It's a different option, and works for someone who can't afford or don't want a 2JZ, but it doesn't replace it nor is it better. I know this because I personally DD a car with an all forged 3.0 stroker turbo M50, which I did instead of a 2JZ swap because it was easier and cheaper to build my new forged M50 than buy a than a used 2JZ and rebuild it then fabricate the manifolds, mounts, and adapter plate to put it in my E34. Stock for stock, M50s are definitely weaker than a GTE and can't rev as high safely without oil pump shaft and chain tensioner. While an M50 is lighter, and you can build a new forged stroker M50 for the price of a used 2JZ, there are things in the 2JZ's favor. Believe it or nor, 2JZ aftermarket is cheaper in some cases. A set of Schrick 264/256 cams for an M50 are $1,400, a set of BC 264 cams for a 2JZ: $885. Used S52 cams cost as much as a set of new BC cams for a 2JZ, other cams like M54B30 and M50NV are cheaper but are only a mild upgrade. If you want to build a 3.0 or 3.2 M50 stroker to match 2JZ displacement and plan on revving high, plan on it being pretty damn expensive. 89.6mm M54/S52 cranks are pretty cheap and easy enough to find, but as the S52 and M54 guys found out a decade or more, it tends to have more torsional vibration issues than the 2.8 and 2.5 cranks. You're going to need to add the relatively cheap; an upgraded oil pump and oil pump chain tensioner, and the expensive; an ATI damper ($950 if you want to keep your AC pulley), and an upgraded valvetrain. Unlike a 2JZ which will do 7,500 fine with only springs an M50 needs retainers, keepers, springs, and should get lighter M54 lifters to rev that high reliably and take advantage of those cams. Certain stock keeper/retainer combos can't be trusted at sustained high revs. In addition, either way you're troubled by transmission choices. ZF310/320s are cheaper than supra 6 speeds, but they have a positively stupid 1:1 5th gear, and an awful gear split. If you have a big ol' turbo on a car with a ZF310, you're going to be disappointed to find that you drop below peak torque with every shift until you get to 4th or 5th. Additionally, M50 VANOS is a crude, on-off system unlike VVTI. And yes, you DO want VVT, especially on a laggy setup. It helps A LOT with the mid range. Additionally, M50 turbo manifolds leave something to be desired. Almost all options are not equal length which does hurt power a little and sounds kind of odd, and the leaned over M50 is harder to fit a big turbo (like my BW S366) next to than a vertical 2JZ. Also, if you want to add an oil cooler (you need one if you're tracking or drifting) it is a pain in the ass with an M50, requiring either the inconvenient and expensive oil filter housing cap adapter or an aftermarket filter housing, both of which add a nice few hundred dollars to what is cheaper to do to a 2JZ. Other more minor issues are that M50 valve covers are a pain in the ass to get to seal right and are magnesium so good luck getting one powder coated well, M50 ignition coils are more limited in capability and harder to upgrade, and OEM and aftermarket 2JZ intake manifolds are often superior and more compact vs M50 intake manifolds.
Bmw fanbois gonna get triggered
bro doesnt realize you can get an e46 injectors and a turbo kit for less than 10k and easily push 600hp with no issues on an unopened m54b30
If you want the diesel 2jz then theres the mercedes om606 and bmw m57. Both these engines rev as high as gasoline ones and theyre extremely reliable.
What are u on a obout, m57 revs max to 5300rpm after the redline has been lifted and after 5300rpm there are only problems
@@oke657 yep but is still sounds amazing and its still a great engine
The om606 is an absolute monster.
@@lov3r672 audi 3.0tdi v6 sounds the best out of these 3 engines
This is great
I like how people just don't give any attention to the Volvo B6294T which is literally capable of 700whp bone stock, as well as having dual VVT and costing about as much as a couple drinks at the bar. Pretty easy to work on as well and the under-square layout (83x90 bore/stroke) and VVT gives it a nice and beefy low-end. If you want a bit more reliability, throw in Chinesium rods, shim the cylinders and chamfer the rod journals on the crank.
Because it does not have a bmw badge... There are 1.8L engines much more capabale that this POS in terms of HP on stock internals.
The m104 is the actual German 2jz because toyota copied it to make the 2jz. Not this peace
What? 😂😂😂
@@truckingjamaicans5045 toyota used the m104 mercedes engine blue prints to design the 2jz. But they did buy them atleast. Not like how nissan copied the L series skyline motor exactly from a mercedes. Why is the 2jz so good because of german engineering
And still the M50 is better than m104
Ok
@@lawetapotrzebnaodzaraz8383In what way?
Very nice video, funny at the same time.😂 The M5X BMW engines sound fantastic, they have a distinctive sound and can take a lot of abuse. The 2JZ receives way to much attention, people have gone crazy with it, same as for the BMW E39 M5. Too many blokes are exaggerating, like it is some sort of secret weapon released yesterday.
You could throw the 5.0 coyote in there, people acted like it was a just yesterday suddenly made secret weapon in 2010-2011, and now 13+ years later, its still treated the same. People still act like its the only capable v8 produced in na form... At least where i live, you dont want to be a part of a car club unless you have some form of gt.
Otherwise, out of 40 guys, you wont be a part of the 38 identical blue of black gt's with a straight pipe, and you and the one only gti guy will both be trash talked for 2 hours straight.
People ruin engines and platforms sometimes... Just like you said when an engine receives too much attention and people have gone crazy with it.
@@shaneflutsch2270 Well said.
The real german 2jz is the BMW N54 nice try with the M54 the blocks on the M54 pull the bolt inserts when overheated, great motor naturally aspirated but that all I can say about the M54
Turkish people discovered this and it is estimated that M50 turbo has been used since 2000.
I love this channel so much😂
Only problem is that m50 is smaller than 2jz, not comparing capacity but block size itself. Propably closest engine to 2jz would be bmw s30b36 or at least m30b30 from e34/e32 and mercedes m104
What web do you buy engines?
Ok cool, but I live in Australia, and own a turbo barra.
We are putting 87 psi in to them and getting 3500 hp.
isn't the TD-05 small for a 2.5-3.0L engine ?
M54 bmw and M104 Mercedes haven't love, but are very good engines.
Can get that water at almost any spare shop under the sun
"The engine is better because it is cheaper", ok, great start guys ! The 2Jz strongpoint is it is strong. Thats basically a tractor engine. It is bulky, heavy, and it can take a beating. Thats about it.
And by "beating", i mean getting over 2000hp out of it. Not in stock form of course, but it will easily take 600-700hp just adding more boost. and most importantly, the transmission will take it too.
M50/52 coilpacks are extremely reliable . Far more reliable than modern cars coilpacks
600hp on stock internals? Where was that in the video?😅
The 1Z, AHU, PD130 and PD150 are the balkan 2JZ
The m50 is heavy but it is a beast with boost
Hardly. I can carry one of those shortblocks and walk with it
Wit Power ! 🙋🏻♂️
I was convinced he was going b58
M50 is one of my favorite engines, however everything exept the block and head is trash pretty much, i also don't like that BMW makes their engines slanted giving you much less space around the exhaust manifold, other than that in my opinion one of the best sounding 6 cylinders when turbocharged
I'm a car fan and I've never dreamed of the 2JZ! Diesel engines is where it's at, these gasoline engines are laughable in comparison.
2JZ can spin very high for a Inline 6
because it got big diameter journals
on the crankshaft. I am a BMW fan
and it hurts me to say this.
M50 non-vanos can spin out to 8000rpm with updated software on stock motor before the stock hydraulic lifters collapse. Do a solid lifter conversion and send it even higher. However the head won’t flow that well at such high rpm, so it’s kind of useless. Does sound sick tho
Up to 2.8 it does tolerate as much yes.
Now try that with a 89.6mm crank
(3.2 US M3 and M54B30) and it have
harmonics issues.
Now, you can boost a NV to 700hp
on a budget which is still very nice.
@@louislavoie1238 I can understand that being a problem in na applications, where displacement is desired. Personally I’m building a turbo motor for drifting, sub 450hp. Stock cast crank should be fine, I’ve never heard of anyone breaking a 2.5 crank. If I do want a little more displacement, I can bore out the cylinder and get to around 2.7L.
But yea turbo non vanos ftw!
2JZ is overrated, without giant money means little
Yep, it got silly. Fanboys 🍜
We build M52B30 stroker,
where do i start
Engines that are as good or better than 2jz
Barra
Intech 4.0
All Performance versions of LS v8s
RB26 and 25
1jz
Multiple BMW 6 cylinders
id also argue a k20 head on a k24 block with a big turbo is pretty close to
I be there's more aswell if anyone else wants to state them
Barra is the best
mercedes m104
@@aatunen1332the M104 is a hidden gem
Not a single one of these motors are capable of retaining more power on stock internals than a 2jz. Recorded 1100hp on stock rods and pistons and just over 2000hp on stock block "both of which ran multiple seasons". Square bore, closed deck, big block supports, factory forged crank and so many other variables play into this motor being best in it's class. Only real downside to the jz is that it's heavy and expensive. They have all the hype for a reason and they damn sure live up to it. But honestly as much as I love my 2j I'd still rather have a 1j😭
@@thaddeuswinsett1338 what about m50
I DONT OWN A CAR BUT I BELIEVE YOU
VR6 joins the chat …
Are we forgetting the b58 now?
Nope, but B58 is from 2020s and 2jz /M50 are from 1990s :)
@@CarsAndTales😂😂 so BMW didn’t have 340i’s from 2016? Kinda channel is this
@@ThatguyWitjokeshow many B58 from the 1990s? 🤡
putting a b58 into an e36 or similar is complicated also the main point of the vid was that a m50 is cheaper than 2jz a b58 is like 7k
@@ThatguyWitjokes
@CarsAndTales This is a good point, you are comparing two engines from the same era rather than two 30 years apart. This is a more honest comparison.
M54 3.0L with European Intake Manifold > M50 2.5L
hell no
lol the car guy is funny
lol i had two m50 right now with and without vanos xD
I expected the B58...
M54👑
M52Tu is a much better engine overall with a metal impeller water pump fitted and can use the m54B30 rotating assembly and also has a better ms42 ecu setup and better mafs.
Aluminium.
@@ensarbmw9680 M52 are good af even tho they are aluminium block, just slap a turbo on it without other upgrades, can make maybe even 500 on it. We use M52s in drifting in finland, and there is a reason why they are so popular here
NO NO NO, M104 and OM606 is the true German 2JZ engines 😎👌
Om606 is a diesel
@@R1DER420 Yes I know, I have one
@@R1DER420 In addition, the M57 is a better diesel than the M104 from boring mercedes.
Rover 1.4 k series enters the chat
dude cmon we could have gatekept it from all the 2j kids it could have been great
You gotta gatekeep 😮we need the m50 for low
Exactly
M50b25
M50nv is the goat
Bro about the make Supra kids cry
😂😂😂 The comment goes crazy when a 2jz is mentioned as the best inline 6 ever
M104 is the only true German 2JZ
M50 > M104 In addition, the M50 was installed in great cars, not boring Mercedes
German 2jz from m104 mercedes benz
The 2JZ is overrated as fuck anyway. It's a mediocre, heavy block that can be made to good power levels if you throw lots of money at it. It's only really popular because of the fast and furious.
Man i got a fuckin' m52b25 with double vanos and to soft boost it you are obligated to have forged bottom of the engine so i just preffer to just swap it to b28 and have factory 200hp then tune it into good spec
om606 is diesel 2jz
JAPAN ❤all the way,if you want a nice life with no headaches
Honestly hard to beat the 2jz😮💨My ride has a h23a vtec engine, it’s fun and all but def can’t take as much Power as the 2Jz well atleast reliably
Barra is better than all of them.
I got the n54 right now in my 335is. I'm definitely getting a b58 when the time is right
I have a S58, it is my favorite motor of all the cars I have owned. I don’t plan on tuning or modifying to keep my 100k mile warranty in tact. I have friends making huge power on these with bolt ons and E.
@@mikewohala6035 that's fire bro🔥not looking for CRAZY power either. Nice b58 with some bolt on's is exactly what I'm aiming for😎
@@Mark-vp6mla loaded m340 was close to a G80 comp xdrive (with no options) and I didn’t want a mild hybrid. I ordered mine in 2022 and got it in 2023, unfortunately they raised the price by about $4k so it’s more of difference now. M340 with options was about 65k and my stripped white m3 comp x was $81k. I also wanted to pay it off in 48 months and possibly get a 23/24 GT3 used with less than a thousand miles. The wife will hate me but oh well 😂. If you haven’t driven the new G8X, get someone to take you for a ride or find a dealer with a used one! I have never owned a BMW , buying a car site unseen and waiting 8 months was crazy to me…. It is amazing. I belong to a group of M’s who cruise to car shows, everyone feels the same way, these cars are animals. And no I don’t work for bmw 😝
@@Mark-vp6ml another deciding factor for me was also resale value. M340’s has a softer used market, great for buying used but obviously not if you bought new. M’s hold their value really well… except the m8 😆
N52
the only german inline 6 that can actually be called a "german 2jz" is the M104
Exactly!!
Correct😉M104.992
@@hooltay1980 .992 for high hp turbo applications (aka german 2jz), .980 for high performance racing (N/A mostly) 😎
103 because that was made before the 1jz
M104 is crap compared to the M50
M50, shows m54
Only 2.5 liters, then explain the m52b28 and m54b30
Great engines but tbh it’s cheaper to turbo a 2jz-ge than build a reliable high power m50.
If you aren’t planning above 300hp on pump gas m50 is ok. But jz will be cheaper in long run if you want big power.
GE engine doesn't hold abuse that much 🫣
2JZs can't stand the amount of abuse M5Xs do. Plus, M5Xs are more expensive to build because having a German car comes with a high price tag.
Not in europe, bmw is king for cheap builds
not even in america if you say german cars are more expensive youre just getting ass rammed by a shit shop@@Cherry-ms6pi
@@cesarxmbertI mean 1200 hp rods will run you 600 pistons 900 head gasket is 200 and arp studs sub 300 dollars balanced internals .5 mm over bore for pistons balancing and bottom end assembly cost 1200 in NYC
To begin I’d only use an m52 motor which in todays prices in NYC costs 8-1100 fully dressed long block that’s running in NYC find me a 2j for that price…and machining the head is 300 dollars …2jz is not cheaper and those motors blow up too or detonate all it takes is one mishap I personally know m5x series engines doing low 8’s which is pretty respectable and also a couple 1300-1500 rwhp just not common for people to go that far on this platform
Japanese Technology at its best ❤
What about the om606 beside the fact that is a diesel
it's diesel... Here we are talking only about petrol engines
M57 is much better
Them shits will blew up too im on my 3rd one 😭😭😭😭
You forgot the M104!
No M104 is simply inferior to the M50 or M54
you can get worse engine for lower price!? whaaat!? I couldn't figure that out by myself....😅
I had written a long ass post explaining the pros and cons of both motors but i decided to delete all that shit cause its mostly going to be clueless idiots that play Forza and watch Supra videos commenting on this anyway so why bother
You got a video or doc?
Wouldn't it be more of a "German 1JZ" cause both have no turbo and are straight 6s
1jz has turbo from factory
@@fakhrigulmammadov3841 the 1jz-ge is non turbod
N54 owners crying in limp mode
Wait. You're saying you can get this N/A motor. Slap a turbo on it, not upgrade the rods or pistons, and still get 400hp? Thats sick.
Ive heard you can get 400-450hp with 0,5bar boost. I actually have this non vanos m50b25 in my 1991 525i :)
@@eamh2002 Thats genuinely crazy lol
Yeah some german over-engineering :) @@Khaynizzle7
Im doing exactly that on my M52B28, just slap a turbo on it and can make more than 400
@@raxxed Thats awesome homie! If it's the one in your profile pic it seems really clean!
That's M54
A lot of engines are better than 2jz
I see the BMW guys are getting their daily recommended amount of copium lol
S38b38 its german 2jz,m30b35 is 1jz
N54 🎉😊
although it can push 700 wheel. It's the most unreliable engine in BMW's line. They revised all the issues and made the n55 which is actually a really good engine.
I'm tossing my N54 into Hershey lake
I need a trigger warning before you play the BMW gong
The Australian 2jz is better 😉
The Australian Barra is better t
m104 is what the Japanese copied from the Germans
Why m50 and not m54?
m54 has aluminum block and m50 has cast iron and m50 is older so has less electronics to fuck up
Barra.
Bmw engines need meticulous care. Difficult to repair and oil eaters. Quite fun in pro hands though
Are we just gonna crash different markets because of the Supra
"engine is good" 5 minutes later noone wants it anymore
why you describing engine accessories that have nothing to do with the engine it self, you do realize other models of bmws have the same accessories mounted to different engines lol
Om606