How Does Flesh and Blood Compare To Magic: The Gathering? | TCG Talks
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- čas přidán 24. 10. 2022
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#magicthegathering #fabtcg #mtg - Zábava
my local LGS grew from 2-4 players for armory events every week about a month ago to now 12-14 players per week. Once new people tried the game they stayed.
Good to hear! I have a feeling I will be in that same boat lol
MtG was my first CCG. Got into it after seeing a game played. It was just a quick game while we waited for the rest of our D&D group to show up. I got a good look at the Keldon Warlord, and I had to learn the game. Unlimited had just released. Once I started playing, I was solidly hooked on the game.
Just as a quick note. We didnt play with sleeves, and card value was strictly how well that card fit in your deck build.
6 months later, we started seeing a financial element to it. To this day I cant fully grasp how a game card (any) became so valuable.
FaB is not MtG, it didnt hook me as quickly, the art was good, but not quite the same level as the early MtG card art., and FaB game mechanics took me a minute to work out, but once it all clicked for me, I was all in!
Nothing will replace Magic in my heart, but FaB is truly a great game.
I'm just a player, and thats my 2 tokens worth.
Well said! I'm definitely not expecting FaB to replace Magic in my heart either, but if I can get a solid group of people playing it, I'd love to cover it and play myself :D
FaB is the best game I’ve ever played and has a community to match. The mechanics of the game really make it feel like a duel between two champions. Trading resources and battling for advantage. I hope a LGS in your area picks the game up. In central Iowa we went from 4 players week one to 20+ local players playing 3 times a week spread over 2 game stores 18 months later. We had 4 new players in the store last night alone.
So happy to see the game growing! I do hope one day I can visit an LGS that does events for FaB.
Nah
The tunic goes for roughly 140ish bucks, but it can be used in many decks and will never rotate out of the game. I remember spending 120x 4 for Jace, Vyrnns prodigy at a point in MTG...guess the difference? Jace isn't legal in standard any longer...I think you covered this well since it's mostly an eternal format.
Yeah I definitely like the ability to have versatility with the cards I invest in as opposed to having to change formats due to the times.
Great video man.
You rarely need 4 legendary equipment in a deck, most only use 2-3.
Fabled are NEVER required, the one that is most played is the eye of ophidea (from arcane rising) but is never required.
Tunic there have been both non-foil and white-border reprints which are cheaper than $150 (look for non foil black border from crucible of war unlimited for the cheapest tunic)
Thanks so much! And I appreciate the information. TCGPlayer had shown that just about every non premium tunic was around $150 but maybe that was a one day thing. Can't wait to learn more about the game!
@@AshenWingzTCG no you are right they are $155 atm. you can find them cheaper via the trade groups on facebook. find my email on my channel and I will ship you a tunic for free to get your collection started ;)
Switching from magic to FaB has been a fantastic decision for me. Keep your eye on the event and store finder on the main website. Over 3000 LGS carry the product
Will do!
Another thing awesome about FaB is the fact that you are not prone to (bad)luck-by-variance, which makes it more balanced, you are not waiting for mana while still having mana-management and last, but not least, you are not subject to infinite combos or whatever mechanics that force a player to watch the other play solitaire or turn one/two wins. All this is coming from a Magic: the Gathering fan.
That is true. No Turn 1 Kill Cycles is a pretty great pro for a game
The closest to an 'infinite combo' in FaB is Kano. At the height of his power, Kano could kill on turn one but even then it was extremely unlikely and the deck has a ton of downsides.
@@derenathor Good to note lol
Ehhhh, Fai CAN high roll you for 20-30 damage which sucks, but that's circumstantial.
FaB is sooooo Good. Never played a game so wel designed art-wise and mechanics.
I'm definitely enjoying it so far. I plan to go to a locals about 45 minutes from my house just to see what the scene is like
@@AshenWingzTCG you should, for sure. I have an lgs here in Amsterdam, 400meters from my house. So I'm spoiled. Btw, if you want to get some reps in before you commit to a new 'potentially costly' deck (since you said you like the competitive part), import a deck into Talishar and go ham. That's what I do whenever I wanna check out a new hero. Btw, the competitive scene is awesome, and it's still a fresh scene so the Meta is always evolving and very very balanced. Which says a lot about its design.
Man I have been so lucky. Multiple stores carry and do tournaments. One even does a learn to play on Sunday. Please play it with a friend what a great experience it can be
I'm going to an LGS about 50 minutes from my house to at least experience it and if all goes well and time allows for it, I may visit there every week to play. But I do seem to have a few friends interested so its going somewhere :D
Regarding the CURLING of foils: the curling does not affect COLD FOILS (a super premium foil). The regular foils (called rainbow foils) have the same issue as MTG foils (they may curl if you do not take care of humidity and storage configuration).
Yeah I realize curling is inevitable in cards left in poor conditions, but I've pulled curled Magic cards right out if the pack from LGS and it has yet to be that way for FaB so thats nice :)
Welcome to FaB! :) Someone mentioned this already but my favorite aspect of FaB (v MTG) is that there is never a non-game in Classic Constructed. Every game is close and exciting, and you play a single game per round in a tournament as a result. No mana screw / flood here!
I do really like the concept of being able to do something on every turn
Love FaB. Agree with all your pros and cons. I play as much as I can, its a brilliantly designed game. MTG is great too but I do hate having to keep up with all the sets in MTG. If you need someone to teach you to play, feel free to message me.
I'd love to learn! Once I get some stuff set up and videos out, I hope to have a dedicated Spell Table section in my Discord which I hope to release to all of you!
Flesh and Blood is a good game. Cons- stores are not holding games and I would love to play in person. I have one LGS down the street and it only hosts magic and some Pokémon. Also I think WOTC is trying to drain out wallets constantly so we don’t have money for other games. It’s working, unfortunately.
Yeah I definitely would like to see more LGS support for FaB
Let your LGS know you're interested in the game! It's very expensive for a store to start carrying a new game - they have to stock up on booster boxes of a few recent sets and starter products like pre-con decks, and all that takes up space on their shelves/stockroom that can't be used for other products. If they know there are players that are interested and will support the game, it makes that investment much less risky for them
So glad you are putting out FaB content. Welcome to the community. I believe you will enjoy FaB a lot. More and more folks are migrating away from MtG (for a multitude of reasons) over to FaB and not looking back. The FaB community is very welcoming and much less toxic as well.
Happy to be a part of the FaB community! I've been having tons of fun just learning about the game itself.
as far as net decking... just because you bring a good deck doesn't mean you have the skill to play it. you don't know what is meant to block, or to further your strategy...
Absolutely correct. I always say that its best to test out the deck and make sure you even know how to play something like it before buying the cards. Just because a deck goes for alot of money or is winning tons of tournaments, doesn't mean its an automatic win everytime you play it. It all depends on how you pilot it.
I love facing off against my locals who net deck... They still lose against me 🤣
FAB is the type of game that the FLGS has to do a little more work to promote…but LSS has had provided great prize support to LGS’s.
That’s unfortunate you can’t find a local scene near you. Here in Portland FaB is getting pretty big with multiple stores running events and carrying the product.
I do see a few places near me, but they are about an hour drive from where I live, which isnt really too bad. Gonna make a trip and see if its something I want to do often :D
Fab leans on player skill over card power. Somebody who net-decks the top meta deck will almost always lose to a player with a higher skill level. FaB is extremely choice-rich, so knowing your deck and making the right choices will always be better than a legendary Tunic in your equipment slot.
I see alot of that and it really makes me happy. I don't plan to shell out hundreds just yet and I'm happy with competitive rare gear lol
Sounds like you’ve really done your research, I hope you’re able to find a way to play FaB. As an old MTG player I can say Flesh and Blood is the real freaking deal. LSS really cares and it shows. Can’t say the same about WoTC. The competitive scene is top notch and so are the players.
Can't wait to dive in! Such an amazing game and an even more amazing community!
I really enjoy the game and it's still growing. I'm fortunate I have 3 stores locally that carry the game, and 2 of them run weekly events. I'd say if you really want a store to carry this get a friend or two who's willing to try the game with and just start playing casually at your local store. If you get enough people interested and asking the store for it they'll hopefully start bringing it in.
I will definitely be giving it a try. Gotta be a jehovah witness but for Flesh and Blood xD
Great video pointing out the pros and cons!
Thanks!
You're not talking about Magic... grrr... rage!!! haha... just kidding. Thank you for the video, I learned a bit more about FaB. The hero equipment system was used in the WoW tcg so that really interests me.
🤣🤣🤣 Never played the WoW TCG but I do kind of see a comparison to MMO's with the equipment system. Gray equipment is starter gear that can kind of get you going but you gotta get that Legendary gear to defeat raid bosses
As a person that is trying to learn more and more about the game, one of the things that catch me is how there is no need for best of 3/5. The game is that good to the point where the games are competitive and close that you don't need multiple games. And that also come with the modern take on card games, removing resources like mana or energy by integrating them on the action cards itself. It's really brilliant. Another modern take is the "fill the hand at the end of the turn". Both aspects minimalize the bad luck you can naturaly have when playing a card game. The only con is that I really think those rarities make a young game like this really expensive.
The rarities of the cards are very rough for early sets of FaB, but legendaries from newer sets are very abundant since more and more people are getting into it with the new sets. Most legendary equipment also only has a high price point when a certain class is popular or doing super well into the meta, most legendaries you can find fairly "cheap"
@@AshenWingzTCG unfortunately I'm from Brazil. There are not that many copies of those more rare cards, so the prices are complicated. I think it's slowly growing. For an exemple, the main website of card games here shows just one store with command and conquer available right now
An honest attempt to look at the other side, I'm impressed. You just fit right in, man. You're focused on much of what we've been begging for and have found in Flesh and Blood.
I hope you find/build a community sooner rather than later. Maybe extend your search to a 20 mile radius? 😆
Would love to see you get a spoiler.
I'd address some of your misgivings, but i have a feeling you'll be working through those yourself eventually. There's some online tools like felttable for learning the game, or talishar for testing against other players, that are really helpful in between events. Or for late nights. 😉
Thanks so much! I hope to do the FaB community proud as I venture into new territory. And trust me, if I ever am chosen to spoil a card for FaB I'll scream at the top of my lungs xD
Where my Canadian Prairies player's at! We know the struggle of not being able to find products easily let alone travel for 3+ hours to find an LGS hosting play. Webcam games have been great but it's not as easy to make friends.
I personally find webcam games to still be a great way to make friends, but I know its not the same for everyone
Great video, I didn't realize how much I disliked MTG's rotation until you talked about how it (doesn't) work in Flesh and Blood lol
Yeah I enjoy being able to hotswap cards between decks when a hero hits Living Legend. That way I can continue playing the class I want without needing to really switch up the deck
I heard "Ashenwingz" and i knew immediately what he plays 😂 good video bro.
XD I had the handle waaaaay before FaB was a thing, but I knew I had to play Dromai the second I saw what she did lol
@@AshenWingzTCG there you go dude!
I am a long time MTG player, I dont see the fyendel tunic as a very high cost, especially if you compare it to the average cost of the top 10 modern decks. You buy ONE and your good for a few Hero's, AND you can sell it back if needed.
Glad you see what I mean. There are so many cards that intertwine between heroes in FaB and not so much for Magic so you are spending much more money on MTG singles than for FaB
The name of your channel is awesome!
Thank you so much! And thank you for all the content you provide! Helped me understand the game a bit more outside of playing it :D
I have played competitively since the game started and still haven’t gotten a Spring Tunic. There are always interesting choices you can make to circumvent expensive equipment and many classes have good options for the chest piece that are far more affordable. Only top level play really requires the full commitment of heavy legendary/fabled investments.
Guess its good to get a few wins under my belt before commiting lol
Great video! Every time I was ready to jump in the comments to attempt to counter one of your points, you looked at the other side of the position as well. I loved you open-minded take and honest opinion.
Thanks Kevin! Having an open mind allows one to learn more than one side and I love learning!
I started FaB in Bright Lights. I kind of love it. Very hard at first. I've been with MTG since it's beginning. I got tired of Wizards trying to beat me over the head with a message and giving me gimmicky sets with a hundred different alt arts of the same damn cards and jumped ship after they released the Lord of the Rings set. I really enjoyed MTG but I LOVE Tolkien. They should have never screwed with my Tolkien. FaB was there to catch me. Incidentally the art is amazing and the game play is fun once you can learn it. HAIL FaB!
Welcome to FaB! Glad to know you're enjoying it so much! As with myself, MTG also just got to be a little too much and I felt I couldn't connect with it anymore. FaB has been great to me and is now my main game and focus on my content here on the channel!
@@AshenWingzTCG Cheers, good sir!
I've been playing FaB for the last 6 months and I've been loving it. I never thought another game could scratch the MtG itch I had, but wow. I've sold my MtG collection and I haven't missed it thanks to FaB
That's great! It seems to be alot of players route into the game. I'm thinking about it myself if I'm being honest
More like 3 sets a year. I think their goal is 2 main and 2 supplemental sets each year this year we got two supplemental Everest and Dynasty by and 1 main..Uprising…the meta is wide open right now
Definitely excited to start the journey. Heading to an LGS tonight to see what I can learn
I saw people playing it at a local festival it looked very interesting, but magic is enough for me , but as tempting as it is I don't have the time or money to get into another trading card game.
Understandable. Luckily you can easily play this game at a fairly high power level in other formats for at max $20 and there are tons of online communities available as well :D
I started playing magic in 1993 with beta packs. I now play FaB and it scratches the same itch that Magic used to scratch back in the day. It has that same new, raw feeling that’s a ton of fun.
I also like that you don’t ever get mana screwed in FaB. You always have options until you run out of them. Getting mana screwed turned me off of the competitive MtG scene back in the day.
Thats awesome! And yeah the feeling of being able to do something on every turn does feel good.
thanks for the video. i always admire outsider perspective for flesh and blood. you definitely had some hits and misses. Personally i wouldnt create a video of a tcg i dont play and can confidently comment on. nonetheless i really hope you get to jump into fab - and appreciate your audience to flesh and blood. i dont mean to sound crass and genuinely wish you the best.
Thanks for watching! I know you meant no harm. I did do quite a bit of research before making this video and with the internet being at your fingertips and lots of info about FaB available to me, I figured I could make a pretty good comparison considering my sources are from well known CZcams channels that cover FaB. I'd love to know if I got anything waaaay out of bounds though but from reading the comments, it seems I'm pretty spot on
@@AshenWingzTCG yeah. I agree. Your def not incorrect. And making a video like such with research is challenging but you did a great job. There was no egregious mistakes and I could only give small corrections. Godspeed
Also hello! There’s an official discord where you can play webcam games if you get a deck together I’d be way more than willing to show you how to play!!! Seriously but a starter blitz deck and I’ll teach you!!!!
I'd be down to do that! I'll see about finding that discord and getting things set up
@@AshenWingzTCG it’s really easy just join the official discord and plug in your camera. Once you get set up and a starter deck hit let me know. I’d suggest maybe Fai or Dromai to get started. They’re pretty easy blitz decks to pilot and you can go up from there.
As a note about the foils: I agree they totally look better than Magic's foils - they do a really good job with spot foiling - but unfortunately just like Magic foils, they do start to curl if not stored properly. Cold foils don't curl though, at least not that I've ever seen.
I have heard of the foils curling but only mildly and obviously if you leave it in a humid setting it will happen to any card
Cold foil was adopted by MTG later on, and they call it "etch foiling"
@@thai33oz And even those curl... :(
@@AshenWingzTCG really now? I did not know that. I haven't seen a cold foil curl yet. I'll test it out
@@thai33oz I'm talking about the foil etched cards in Magic xD I haven't heard about cold foils curling
Thank you Ashen I get more impressed with all the time
FaB is fantastic. I do love MTG also. But I have had fantastic times when attending the large events (Pro Tour, etc). You may need 1 or 2 expensive cards (equipment) but that’s about it. I think the notion that the game is too expensive is a relic from 1.5 years ago when speculators were speculating. But players have taken over IMO
Yeah its not like you need a 1st ed box of WTR to play the game
You don’t even need more than 1 Spring Tunic in your entire collection … unless you’re somehow playing multiple sanctioned games simultaneously.
Exactly! Its why I like the equipment system so much
Fabled cards are situational. They are typically not mandatory. Blood of the dracai is on 56 right now too. I would argue you are correct about the equipment with the caveat that you can play most really good legendaries across multiple decks
Its something I definitely like about the game is the versatility
It is not official from LSS. Fan made for people to get games online
@@andrewostman3135 What isn't official?
@@AshenWingzTCG talishar The online client some fans made to play flesh and Blood on the internet
@@andrewostman3135 ooooo I'll have to check that out
Here in Europe Fab is getting really big, its growing more then in Usa and now it has come to Brazil🤟😊
Yeah the Global scene for FaB seems huge, not tons of places in the US it seems though
@@AshenWingzTCG then it has room to grow, and usa is very big.... so one step at a time😊
Flesh and Blood is leagues beyond Magic as far as game design and mechanics. The "pitch" system of resources fixes alot or the problems that the land/mana system presented in MTG. Even Richard Garfield himself has said that his later design, Netrunner, was a far superior game to its predecessor. The "four actions per tern" system in Netrunner had far more freedom and variability, allowing you to use those actions any way you'd like (gain a credit, draw a card, play a card, etc). It foxes both the land based resource system and the linear beginning of turn card draw. Magic was just the first, so it gained enough popularity to be ubiquitous with the CCG, but its far from the best CCG design.
I definitely enjoy the playstyle of FaB much more
Foils still curl btw, it's the nature of the thing. But for some sets it doesn't seem to be as bad that might be true.
And it's great to see that some people actually dig into what a game this is. You've seen some finance shills hop onto the train after the Profs video but that's not what the game needs. The game needs players who genuinely try the game and dedicate attention to it, that's how a game does well, and this one really did it for a couple people not just to get away from Magic but just because it's very good in itself and has a great publisher.
The L issue is a good one to always keep an eye on but besides "every competitive TCG will have its price" and "that's bonkers what a bad game this has to be" you don't read much. It has real disadvantages for some heroes and that's an issue, but people also look at competitive decks so freaking early just to netdeck that they're so quickly angry these are so expensive when the maindecks are so affordable with few substitutions, it just doesn't help a good discussion about it. The ease and practicality of switching between decks/classes/heroes and have your money in a very select few cards instead of playsets and 3-ofs all over the place like in Magic is just such a big advantage in my book though.
Definitely alot of variety! And the fact they have already adopted a Pauper-esque format such as Commoner already shows me that they don't just care about high level competitive formats
You don't really need fabled cards in most top competitive decks... it's more sort of a collectable thing.
As for the equipment it's true that it's pricey as are some generic majestics. But you will be able to play them in multiple heroes. Once you got a few key-pieces the price of staying up to date is quite alright. I mean i just buy Common and Rare complete playsets of a set off of people who open a lot of product, then a few majestics that are reasonably low prices at the moment eg in uprising and thats it...
Plus there are quite a few heroes that are not so popular and thus their cardpool is considerably affordable. In my opinion the power of many heroes is untapped and those heroes will not go living legend for a while. It's is quite fun to work and try to figure out underdogs... but i recommend using proxies from fab proxies or testing on talishar online before buying expensive stuff.
Definitely a good call. I really gotta check out Talishar xD
So that's what you meant by that community post... I'm sure some will definitely be quite fired up by this...
Wish i could get into FAB, but i just can't get a good grip on the mechanics and rules and enjoy it like i can magic, and im one of the people that (mostly) understands layers!
@@Amphibian42 Nothing wrong with that! I may start making some beginner videos for FaB as well as Magic for yhose who are wanting to lesrn either or
Make it known that you want to grow the scene around you. See if your LGS will get product and try out running some events. Unfortunately, the average LGS is not in the position right now to take a risk. Tell them to get Welcome Decks, and have a Learn to Play event using those decks! It would happen without your support. :)
I'll do my best! Lol
@@AshenWingzTCG The entry point can be rough, I agree. But once you have good generic equipment, it becomes a LOT easier to build anything. And James White is on record saying that he wants Tunic to be a longterm staple piece. With how they design cards, you don't need to worry about stuff like that being replaced due to power creep.
@@Sparta2388 Definitely making buying Tunic seem like a really great investment lol
I like MTG just fine, like FaB better at the moment. Will see long term.
I'm feeling the same way. MTG holds a special place in my heart but I love the community and competition of FaB
@@AshenWingzTCG Yes, considering the fact that I am 47 and played MTG when I was still in high school it is very sentimental in many ways. I do feel that FaB has captured the overall feeling and excitement MTG had back in those days.
In Canada, Fab at $100-130.
Mtg is like 200-400
Yu-gi-oh 65-110 depending on value of cards,
Digimon 110-130
Cardfight vanguard 75-100
Price has gone up again
It is less than 3 sets a year. In october 2019 we had the first set (WTR). Then, in 2020 only two sets were released (ARC and CRU). With that, the first block was done. Then, in 2021, two more sets came out (MON and ELE). In february 2022 came another set to complete the seconf block of three sets. And in june 2022 UPR came out and we are waiting for DYN next month (november 2022). James White, the creator, said that they would have no more than 3 releases per year. This is a very nice frequency. I hate MTG's nearly monthly releases.
Yeah the monthly releases has gotten to be a bit much for me. Happy to see a more structured schedule for FaB
I feel like the gameplay of FaB lacks varied play styles. Most of the successful strategies are about aggro.
There was just a 3 month span of a firmat where Fatigue was the top dog as far as competition goes
@@AshenWingzTCG I think that we are seeing some branching out with more recent heroes, which is a positive.
I watched card kingdom do a "beginner" video. Someone I know apperantly plays it now. I don't like it and wont play it since I'm done playing new card games, and contemplating quitting MTG after the over priced magicCon
That's totally fine. If it's not for you and card games just aren't your thing anymore, continue living your life to the fullest! Card games aren't and shouldn't be the most important thing in peoples lives.
Just wanted to throw it out there, FAB releases 3 sets a year.
Oh? I heard in an interview it was 4 sets?
@@AshenWingzTCG James White meant 4 sets is his limit in that video. It's just 3 atm. But like look at their anniversary video of the channel they're still like what, 20-30 people big studio max so it's still kinda wild what they're pulling off.
@@gorganiangranola Oh absolutely! And thank you for the clarification!
Flesh and Blood is the best TCG I have ever played. MTG is great but really shows it's age and has one of the worst companies pushing it.
Tunic is the best equipment card just period that's why it's so expensive
Makes sense. Its very versatile
FAB is so much cheaper to play.
It really is!
fab is poaching mtg players. it will shift further without a doubt
I am still enjoying both games, but I gotta say, the design for FaB still amazes me and I find new and fun ways to play in all formats each time a set releases, which is harder to say for Magic
Wait.. so this furry is talking about a game he has never played!?
Kind of rude to assume someone is a furry when you don't know them. Take your toxicity elsewhere please