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Many beginners might think that Cho should have stolen the tea around this point 28:41, in order to find the best sequence that the AI found, rather than in the previous position. But you have to take in count that the woman was _drinking_ the tea, and the more time it passes, the less tea would Cho get. Professionals like Cho are able to incorporate the amount of tea remaining to their point calculations and decide when is the best moment to steal available tea.
I see, so he performed the TeaSuji at a timing where the balance between the criticality of the board position and the amount of remaining tea was just right, thereby optimizing the effectiveness of the move. These pros are really something else..
That sequence you were talking about around 29:18 for about five minutes- The commentator saw the hanei, and Cho Chukun actually said it was a stupid move immediately after making it. So I don’t think it really illustrates how robots read better than humans (although they certainly do) but more the human issue with pressure under limited time (Cho Chikun was out of thinking time at that point).
I was looking at this game with KataGo myself recently, and (obviously) saw the same sequence pointed out for Black to take the lead. But I'm so glad I found this explanation for why it worked beyond "computer says no"!
Hmm, so you play Hearthstone, you watch Grubby and you study Shibari ? ;) But that TeaSuji was totaly unexpected and made that video so fun to watch. The slow replay was such a great move ! Thanks for what you do !
The intro was really loud though! Audio was clipping. Thank you for all of your content Nick! Been following you for years now and I never cease to learn and rekindle my love for go with your videos
The kind of sequence like from 25:11 is one of my biggest problems when playing with Leila. Many times, it just either pressured to invade my territory from the outside or tricked me into a fight, then ran a whole forcing sequence just like that. And before I knew it, it got two walls on two sides encircling the entire half of the middle. Sometimes I saw it coming, but couldn't really do anything unless I want to give up a big group or my own territory.
I feel sorry for her :( On the one hand, Cho Chikun is in a competition and it seems fair to improvise when you need an amenity that should be provided - she can ask for more? On the other hand, it still seems REALLY RUDE.
Nick, regarding connecting the ko at the end, was the bot using area scoring? If so, the dame at n12 would be worth 1 point outright and then Black could try fighting the ko. Perhaps that's the source of the discrepancy.
I think it was Takemiya Masaki who was doing live commentary on this game. He was rather confused that it was indeed Cho Chikun who was going for this and seemed to enjoy it quite a bit. English subtitled version can be found in YT on this game. It was cool to watch another review of this game with AI and Nicks explanations.
I am not surprised by the level of play the bots have! sequences where the bot protects the cuts, prevent the deadly squeeze, and take sente all at the same time are commonly seen to me! the bots are closed to the title "God of Go"!
I feel like I missed something regarding why you are referencing the robot moves so much. It's my first time back to go since the "robot era" as you say. What am I missing? Is it now what is done to compare all strategies to AI moves?
There are AI stronger than any professional now. It's like saying "here's what standard theory would suggest, but the strongest player on the planet suggests this instead". On the other hand though, the AI moves are made based on reasons that we can only infer from the moves themselves. It's better to know why you're making a good move than not knowing why you're making a great one.
i found it really annoying and tedious how often he made contrasts between the human and ai without offering any explanation. maybe a 9p wants to pore over every 0.2% superior move the ai suggests but for anyone watching this video it is irrelevant
I don’t remember who was telling me about this moment, but they said, in response to Westerners saying that this was very rude of Cho, that all of these people know each other very well, and that everyone involved thought this was funny after the fact, especially the time keeper
Hey NIck, have you seen the Go Seigen of our era? I think that the next Go Seigen is walking among us. His name is Shin Jinseo. He is the first man I've seen to open up 42-4 for a year. He has a 92% win rate vs. top players this year. That's the best 7 months I've ever seen. He even had a 27 game win streak snapped, then went on to win 90% of the next 20+. Shin Jinseo is the man who could beat Alphago Master ( the version that played Ke Jie in 2017). He's AI in human flesh.
Q11 shows blitz/byoyomi sucks. Takemiya (who was the commentator) noticed the mistake immediately and so did Cho, a moment later. It was just a blunder.
Many beginners might think that Cho should have stolen the tea around this point 28:41, in order to find the best sequence that the AI found, rather than in the previous position. But you have to take in count that the woman was _drinking_ the tea, and the more time it passes, the less tea would Cho get. Professionals like Cho are able to incorporate the amount of tea remaining to their point calculations and decide when is the best moment to steal available tea.
I see, so he performed the TeaSuji at a timing where the balance between the criticality of the board position and the amount of remaining tea was just right, thereby optimizing the effectiveness of the move. These pros are really something else..
Not only out of tea and in trouble on the board, you can see that he is even on his last byoyomi period
That sequence you were talking about around 29:18 for about five minutes- The commentator saw the hanei, and Cho Chukun actually said it was a stupid move immediately after making it.
So I don’t think it really illustrates how robots read better than humans (although they certainly do) but more the human issue with pressure under limited time (Cho Chikun was out of thinking time at that point).
Amazing Go walkthrough indeed.
I was looking at this game with KataGo myself recently, and (obviously) saw the same sequence pointed out for Black to take the lead. But I'm so glad I found this explanation for why it worked beyond "computer says no"!
Hmm, so you play Hearthstone, you watch Grubby and you study Shibari ? ;)
But that TeaSuji was totaly unexpected and made that video so fun to watch. The slow replay was such a great move !
Thanks for what you do !
thanks for explaining the boardsituation of the TeaSuji!
The intro was really loud though! Audio was clipping.
Thank you for all of your content Nick! Been following you for years now and I never cease to learn and rekindle my love for go with your videos
The balls of this man.
He’s a legend in go for sure.
Watching you have a stroke trying to say takemiya was concerning lol
Loved at one point he called him "bamboo shoot" in Japanese
Takenoko is also the name of a board game (bamboo factors in it quite heavily) which be why the word is stuck in his brain.
The kind of sequence like from 25:11 is one of my biggest problems when playing with Leila. Many times, it just either pressured to invade my territory from the outside or tricked me into a fight, then ran a whole forcing sequence just like that. And before I knew it, it got two walls on two sides encircling the entire half of the middle. Sometimes I saw it coming, but couldn't really do anything unless I want to give up a big group or my own territory.
I feel sorry for her :(
On the one hand, Cho Chikun is in a competition and it seems fair to improvise when you need an amenity that should be provided - she can ask for more? On the other hand, it still seems REALLY RUDE.
cho chikun could break into my house and steal an entire packet of tea, and it would be nothing short of an honour
Nick, regarding connecting the ko at the end, was the bot using area scoring? If so, the dame at n12 would be worth 1 point outright and then Black could try fighting the ko. Perhaps that's the source of the discrepancy.
I think it was Takemiya Masaki who was doing live commentary on this game. He was rather confused that it was indeed Cho Chikun who was going for this and seemed to enjoy it quite a bit. English subtitled version can be found in YT on this game. It was cool to watch another review of this game with AI and Nicks explanations.
mirin your youtube recommended videos brah, didnt know you were hurtstone guy
Cho is the owner of teasuji cup.
was the komi 6,5 or 7,5 ? can we change the komi to analyze different komi value in different game in katago?
Sir, could you say what software you used for this game? It does not look like Sabaki, if i am right xD
Thanks, great vid
i think is using lizzie
I am not surprised by the level of play the bots have! sequences where the bot protects the cuts, prevent the deadly squeeze, and take sente all at the same time are commonly seen to me! the bots are closed to the title "God of Go"!
Me as a 15 kyu saw the robot variation at minute 30-ish first lol
I feel like I missed something regarding why you are referencing the robot moves so much. It's my first time back to go since the "robot era" as you say. What am I missing? Is it now what is done to compare all strategies to AI moves?
There are AI stronger than any professional now. It's like saying "here's what standard theory would suggest, but the strongest player on the planet suggests this instead". On the other hand though, the AI moves are made based on reasons that we can only infer from the moves themselves. It's better to know why you're making a good move than not knowing why you're making a great one.
i found it really annoying and tedious how often he made contrasts between the human and ai without offering any explanation. maybe a 9p wants to pore over every 0.2% superior move the ai suggests but for anyone watching this video it is irrelevant
I don’t remember who was telling me about this moment, but they said, in response to Westerners saying that this was very rude of Cho, that all of these people know each other very well, and that everyone involved thought this was funny after the fact, especially the time keeper
min. 12:15: How is this possible? I mean that with the hand?
if you mean that his arm is looking like to be cut, there is just the border of the camera screen inside the video.
what program you used to coment this game???
github.com/featurecat/lizzie
What program is this?
Hey NIck, have you seen the Go Seigen of our era?
I think that the next Go Seigen is walking among us. His name is Shin Jinseo. He is the first man I've seen to open up 42-4 for a year.
He has a 92% win rate vs. top players this year. That's the best 7 months I've ever seen. He even had a 27 game win streak snapped, then went on to win 90% of the next 20+.
Shin Jinseo is the man who could beat Alphago Master ( the version that played Ke Jie in 2017). He's AI in human flesh.
Lee Sedol will remain the last human to ever win a serious competitive game against the strongest AI (and likely the last to even play a serious one)
Yes! I've covered Shin a few times in previous videos!
Pretty funny watching CZcams on CZcams!
Also, why does CZcams think you'll like artistic bondage videos?
CZcams knows me better than I know myself! ;-) #SexiestGoCZcamsChannel?
@@NickSibicky How about sexiest Go guy? I can give you that!
Q11 shows blitz/byoyomi sucks. Takemiya (who was the commentator) noticed the mistake immediately and so did Cho, a moment later. It was just a blunder.
First view.. yay