Are Hammer Woodworking Machines Made In China
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- In a previous video on the Hammer A3-41 (A 4 month Review) I was asked the question "Are Hammer Machines Made in China" so I decided to ask the manufacturer for an official response.
Here's the answer.
Link to previous video
• Hammer A3 41 4 Month R...
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A friend of mine used to be one of the distributors of Felder in Sweden. He isn't selling them anymore, but he did very much so at the time when the Hammer brand was introduced, an here's the true story regarding this matter:
The machines are designed in Austria an also assembled there but the parts are in fact made in China to Felder's specs and exclusively for the Hammer machines. For some period of time, the Chinese factory also tried to introduce a different brand of their own, using the same parts, but Felder put a stop to that.
I also happen to own a band saw with the Felder sticker on it. I bought it new from Felder Scandinavia in the early nineties, long before the Hammer brand existed. This machine is actually made by the ACM company in Italy, but painted in Felder colours and sold under their name.
I have no complaints over this; it is a fantastic machine that has served me well for more than thirty years. The blade guides was rubbish so I replaced them with ceramic ones from Laguna Tools, USA. These fitted my machine perfectly straight out of the box, which didn't come as a surprise as the Laguna band saws are ALSO MADE BY ACM! At least some of the models, for sure. For some time the same band saws model were also sold under the LUNA brand in Sweden, as well as under ACM's own brand. This is just how things work...
Hi, thanks for the info and I agree. If the equipment matches the manufactures claims..... In saying that it would be good to see equipment made in the UK, sold in the UK and sold at reasonable prices.
Great video! Seems like some people have been unlucky with the Hammer line, but it seems like Felder is really trying to address those. One of my motors was making a scratching noise and it turned out to just be a clamp ring that wasn't tight enough. A Felder guy drove over 500km, one way, to me and fixed it for free.
Excellent video. Ask Felder if all of the Felder and Format machines have always been made in Austria. I bet you get a different answer. You could also ask if any of them are “badged” and in fact made by somebody else.
I bought a felder table saw in 2019. I kept it in storage until about a month ago almost 3 years. Felder technician came to commission it and couldn’t test the scoring unit as it was tripping the breaker. Being a new workshop with new electrical installation we thought that we better check that first. After checking the electrics and changing the RCB it was still tripping. I called felder and told them. After a couple of pictures emailed they sent out both motors and the whole electrical system for the saw all under warranty, after 3 years. Top company in my opinion
Wow, thats good to know and fantastic service. Thanks Ernest. 👍👍
I have a Hammer A3 31 (bought 2015) which states "Made in Austria" on the machine ID label; this machine is consistent with my expectations for a Europe made machine. I also have a HS 950 edge sander which states "Made Hammer AUSTRIA" (bought 2022). The HS 950 arrived in a state consistent with a machine made in the Far East (cheap plywood crate with a generous coating of protective oil all over the machine). Despite where they may have been made, I am very satisfied with both machines.
Hi Matthew, that's good to know thank you. 👍
Virtually all woodworking machines are made in China. There in a Supplier called Burt Group Co Ltd which is made up of several Factories the Planers and Thicknessers are made by Laizhou Planet Machinery Company. You can trace the manufacturers own websites and you will see products from Record , Jet, Ryobi, Axminster, Barnando , ec't being made or waiting in the dispatch area waiting to be shipped. If you want to know where your machine was really made look for the Certificate of Conformity. It is sometimes on a plate on the machine and or in the Manual . I believe that all equipment has to have a certificate in order to be sold in the UK.
Good to know thank you. 👍👍
Way late to comment, but I just saw this (and many of your other) video. Great Channel Graham.
I just ordered an A3 31 which is due to deliver in the next day or two. Probably should have done more research before purchasing, but that's neither here nor there.
When I was in the showroom I asked the technician (who does the commissioning service for the local area) and salesman "these are made in Austria correct?" The reply was "final assembly and calibration is done in Austria" from the technician. That tells me they are made in China, without telling me they're made in China.
With all the issues of out of flat beds/tables and jointer beds not being co-planer, and other issues with Hammer machines, it is clear these machines are for all intents and purposes in fact made in China. The iron parts are all cast in China, and are quickly milled which causes the issues with them being out of flat and not being co-planer after a short time. The iron hasn't been "seasoned" or stress relieved.
I am hopeful my machine is set up properly and doesn't have any major issues, but I am wary and have a bit of buyers remorse at this point. I hope my concerns are put to rest once the machine is received, inspected, and used. These are apparently quite popular as there were 7 others in the shipping que before mine when I ordered, and they always have these coming in to the Sacramento CA warehouse from what I was told. They can't all be bad if this is the case. Then again, maybe people aren't inspecting them properly or don't know how.
Thank you. Mine is still performing really well. I'm sure you will be pleased with yours. 👍
Thanks for the video. It is very helpful for those of us trying to decide on the Felder vs Hammer line.
Hi Sean, you're most welcome.
I watched another review of this combo machine, and the tables were not dead flat. There were gaps up to 11 thousandths.
Did you find any similar issues, and do you have any performance concerns?
Just watched your 4 month review video which answers my questions. Thanks again!
@@SeanSchade Hi Sean, yes I did. The head was above the outfeed table and had to be adjusted, however as I collected it as opposed to it being delivered I couldn't, hand on heart say whether it arrived like that or whether we were responsible when man handling it into the workshop.
@@SeanSchade Hi Sean, glad it was helpful. 👍
Graham, brilliant I think you are spot on. Component sourcing. The motor industry certainly bring components together from global suppliers and in many cases multiple suppliers for one component (just in time) for assembly.
As the end user its who is face to face with the customer, even above product. A good machine with no support.
You put this very well. Thank you yet again.
HI Barry, thank you and you're welcome.
Go to any parts dealer and you will pay more for Japanese ball bearings than Chinese but the quality is way way higher.
Japan makes excellent quality tool steels. It's part of their culture and car manufacturing success.
Bearings are not the problem with Felder though, it's the castings and underengineering of fences etc.
Before Taiwan, Deltaade good affordable machinery in America and Wadkin in the UK.
Felder is like Ikea. It's a modular compromise built on cheap bolted chassis.
Okay for breadboard and hokey hobby project's but not much else.
Hi Graham
Great honest review, just a quick note could you do a video of the clamp racks above your head I am intrigued 👍
Hi Karl, thank you. 👍 Here's the link to making the clamp rack. czcams.com/video/dKkGDteqnqo/video.html 😁
@@GTWoodshop excellent, Thankyou Graham looking forward to watching this one .
Here Here
In this day and age we seem too quick to criticise everything. All manufacturers have issues from time to time and in my mind its how they deal with them that makes them a good or bad company.
In this case well done Felder.
Thanks for the insight Graham ta-ra
Hi Paul, couldn't agree more. 👍
Quality matters far more than where the machine is made. Hammer is great quality gear and the product support is superb. As you say, that costs a fair bit. Worth it imho...
Hi Rob, they've proved themselves to me, that gets my vote every time. 👍
I had A341 machine for a year, and it was getting out of coplanar constantly. I complained and sent the machine back to Felder and ordered the AD741. The difference is night and day but there is also difference in the price (double). I hated my Hammer machines (except the N4400, which performs well) and I absolutely love my Felder machines which perform excellent. The point is the Hammer range machines look like they are made in completely different factory than Felder range machines.
Hi Andrea, thanks for the info, very interesting. 👍
Mostly in China for sure! In Bulgaria we also make similar, but of a bit better quality maybe!
Felder has excellent customer service. I have used them for years and they go above and beyond as you state
Hold on one minute Graham, I have a Hammer and on the bottom, it says made in China. However, it's a great tool and knocks them nails in no problem lol... Sorry, Graham, very interesting and informative video.
HA!, had me for a second there George. 🤣
Solid points!
Thanks Lucy.
I have a few felder and hammer machines. At the moment I have a hammer n4400 on order and it’s gotten delayed exactly because they source some of their parts for hammer machines in Asia. That isn’t an issue for Felder machines since according to my sales guy they’re entirely manufactured ground up in Austria.
For what it’s worth I got this information from Felder Denmark. Not Felder UK or directly from Austria.
HI Taylor, as expected really, but not necessarily a bad thing?
A well thought out video. Like it or not, it's a global economy. Consumers want the lowest price possible, so companies make build/buy decisions based on this. If you look at a lot (most?) of the table saws and other wood working machines available in the US for consumers, they are all built by the same company in Taiwan. The HS-950 that I received this month came in a crate that had the following on the label: Made for Hammer AUSTRIA - EUROPE which implies that Felder didn't make it. Do I really care? No, I just want the highest quality machine I can get for the money I'm willing to spend.
Hi Bill, a good sentiment. 👍
So far my customer service from felder has been 50-50 here in the US... they worked with me well to get my a341 but it took forever and then had issues with delivery... now learning my beds are not co planer (actually thanks to you for pointing out an issue that lead me to discover) and I'm getting calls and info from them but when mention of a tech it seems associated with high cost on my part... will have to see how it pans out especially since I'm considering an hs950 and a slider in the not too distant future
HI KW, sorry to hear you've had issues but glad the video helped a little. I wonder how much you have to spend to get a perfect piece of kit ???
@@GTWoodshop seriously right lol! I do wonder though if service from felder is treated differently for those who have a social media presence.... hopefully not but seems like there are a few examples of that...I guess wanting great service and a great product for an expensive although comparably reasonable price is too much to ask!
On a different topic... did you look at all at the k4 saw before getting your k3? I've been trying to find anyone who had experience and so far none really
@@KWCabs Hi, I have wondered that myself, for mine I don't think my audience is large enough to carry any weight, yet, but you do have to ask yourself. Re the K4, alas I did not. Since buying mine I have talked to someone that has the K4 and I must admit I like the sound of it. From his description it sounds as if its a better fit and finish, and also has better options, although a lot more money. 😢
See Marius Hornberger video's.........he was invited to Felder factory in Austria shortly after purchasing his K3 saw. He explains that he witnessed assembly process of machines, and I guess if the Hammer range were made elsewhere .........he would have probably mentioned that........ Happy with my Hammer machines........so much better than the cheaper alternatives.
Hi Rotti, couldn't agree more. 😁👍
My friend bought one of those. The stamp says Made in China. It may be assembled in Austria, but their process where they source the components, qualify them, assemble them into a final product is broken. My friend’s machine had tables that were out of specs. You could slide 13mil gauge in the center of the tables on both tables of the jointer. After 8 months he finally got the tables replaced, but initially they expected him to do the swap and shipping. For $9,000 you would expect better quality. Why would a company allow in feed and out feed tables that are horrible out of spec to be assembled and shipped? While the company considers a $9,000 to be a hobby machine, fine but for that amount of money the tables should be perfectly flat. You don’t charge $9,000 for a hobby machine and have tables warped this bad do you? Hobby machines are sub $1,000 not $9,000. Eventually he got all issues resolved, but it took him a lot of time and going back and forth. The sad part is that they tried to tell him that the 10mil warp is acceptable as it is a hobby machine. Really? If so the markup of these for the dealer and the company must be through the roof. I own a 8” jointer with helical head parallelogram and paid $2460 at the beginning of pandemic. The tables are not even 1mil out of spec. If the company calls a $9,000 machine a hobby machine so flaws are okay then what would my machine be called? A toy? Sorry I would never recommend to anyone this machine after seeing what my friend went through. Now there are some who are lucky and got things working and got better quality product. But in my eyes the company failed big time since they source the components and assemble them and charge huge premium for that. Yet they didn’t cherry pick or do much of quality assurance and just assembled it from sub standard components that should have been rejected. If that’s the case I may as well buy a machine that is made or assembled or whatever in China and reflect that in much lower cost, as the process in this case that I’m being charged for to being value is broken. So why pay for it?
Hi Christian, its really does seem to be a lottery with machines, I agree totally with your comments regarding price, Hammer machines are way over the average hobby threshold without doubt.
Thanks Graham, very well considered, would I buy my Hammer machines again? Yes for the planer but possibly not for my bandsaw.
Thanks again, Hal
Hi Hal, thanks. I have no knowledge of the Bandsaw, I have an Axminster which I'm really happy with. It really feels like a lucky dip sometimes. 👍
Hey Graham, I could never afford the Hammer or Felder but I think I could spring for the shop apron you’re wearing. Can you put in a link for it?
Hi Nobody, well, I could just put a link to the one I bought from eaby, but to be honest its not bearing up that well. So I am having one very similar made by a local craftsmzn / costume maker. I was considering offering them for sale through the channel??
Assembled in Austria is not the same as manufactured in Austria.
The big issue is castings and the lack of quality. Stable castings are critical to function. Without proper seasoning they are not Stable.
Accelerated seasoning is no substitute really for two years out in the weather.
China is not well known for quality steel or iron.
I dearly wish more Japanese machinery was available. Those guys know what they are doing.
Felder is overpriced and poorly engineered in many critical areas.
Customer service ? Lol. If only.
I have bought a Robland woodworking machine (HX310). Although the machine itself is kind of 'profi', the manual is definitely not. Like all manuals nowadays you have search for the actual useful information for installation and such. 90% of the manuals are made for liability reasons, it's all legal information, the companies being afraid of lawsuits: "you did not mention that childs under 6 should not use the machine". The problem all over the world is that personal responsibility is taken off people, for everything you have to make a law, rules, regulations, permits are needed etc. Accidents lead to this by nature. A tragic accident where a child can climb over a fence on a balcony and dies because of this leads to actions like: "This should never happen again, we must set a minimum height for the fences on balconies." While I agree that such accidents should not happen again, I am against institutionalizing it. It's the responsibility and choice of the parents how high the fence should be and it's their responsibility to look after their child, not allow the child on the balcony etc. Anyway, I am drifting away from the subject. With my Robland HX310 I bought a feeder for €600. The manual is again of very poor quality, almost useless. There are mistakes as well, the worst one is that in the first line of the Dutch section of the manual it says: "Hammer wishes to thank you for buying this machine." Hammer ? That is cheaper brand of Felder, right ? So the RAV32 feeder is probably of Felder. In the English section of the manual the first line is: "Robland wants to tank [not 'thank'] you for buying this machine." Now this spelling error is typical for Chinese manuals, you see this all the time. What I believe is that this RAV32 is not made by Felder, not made by Robland, but make white labelled in China, painted in the default house style color of the brand you wish. That's how they do it. I am very much against overregulation, but in this case I am not against a law where you must clearly state the truth about the product, where it's made, where it's engineered, where it's assembled. One more example... I bought a chainsaw of the A brand Hyundai. My thought was that this could not be bad quality, as Hyundai cars and machines like excavators and such ARE worth to be rated as A brands. And I love the fact that Hyundai is investing in hydrogen energy. When unpacking the chainsaw, I immediately noticed that it was not an A quality product like Stihl, Jonsered or Husqvarna chainsaws. In small print it said : "Licensed by Hyundai". I send it back and got a refund.
You raised some goods points there Mark thank you. 👍
How much was delivery to Cornwall for the machines?
Hi Jack, £350.00 plus vat, Each!!!
@@GTWoodshop interesting they quoted me the same when I live 20 miles away, must be flat rate. Agree on service points, SCM use dealers but they are a big level up IMHO, helped me get a planer in and set up and made sure it was dead on. Even moved some machines around do it was in it's final place for no cost!!!
@@jackastbury Hi Jack, we can only speak as we find can't we. Sounds like you found a really good dealer, stick with them, they need our support. 👍
Und ich wollte mich eine von Hammer anschaffen, jetzt nicht mehr. Danke Graham👍👍
Why don't companies give the consumer a chance to see their manufacturing plants. At least a video tour would be nice.
because no one wants to see forklift drivers covered in molten steel at their unsafe foundry
In my experience Felder have the worst customer service you could ever imagine. If anyone needs further clarification on this I would be glad to provide evidence of this. This would be their response to my requests in rectifying problems the caused and their refusal to fix anything.
Hi Ray, I'm sorry to hear that.
I was in the woodworking machinery industry for more than 30 years and also came into contact with chinese suppliers professionally. Hammer was and is largely made in China. The final assembly takes place in Austria, for example placing the carriage on the panel saw, placing patented planer spindles and so on.
So don't be guided by the many German-sounding names that were actually made in Europe in the distant past. As far as I know, the following "high-end" woodworking machines for hobbyists are still completely made in Europe: Felder in Austria, Minimax (SCM) in Italy, Robland in Belgium and Rojek in the Czech Republic. Of course you can't rule out that they also work with some suppliers for electrical and such, but as you mention: the afterservice is even more important and let's hope that you can still easily obtain certain parts of Chinese manufacture after 10 years without spending a fortune to customization to solve your machine problems.
Hi EB, thanks for the info. 👍
How mani price plz
If memory serves 4200 GBP. 👍
i like hamar mesin me be .
After 20-30yrs in the trade i fell foul of the 'Felder' marketing machine. it was a dark dark day. £15k down on the felder saw/spindle and seperate spiral 531 pt and to be honest, i felt like a newbie idiot, they promise the world and give nothing back. IMO dont be pyulled into this marketing bs. if you want a decent machine, just buy old or new british. Hell, wadkin are renowned around the world for some of the best ww machinery ever made.. honestly, felder really aren't. Your call, of course, but don't come complaining when the pretty pit=ctures dont match up. Matt.
Hi Matt, really good points re the Marketing machines. In my experience once you've paid your money now a days your on your own, regardless of the product you've bought. Although the Felder support guys in Milton Keynes have been pretty damn good. 👍