Well, as I said in your other video on this table ... it isn't worth $1300 to me to buy, but I certainly have no problem with selling it at that price. Something is worth what people will pay for it.
I remember the original video,your voice over confirms many of the design c& build assumptions I made while watching. Beautiful work as always & great dialogue
You are spot on about price. People are going to buy what they are going to buy. Period. Moving forward, more and more people will be unable to do physical tasks like make things for themselves or fix there own things which means price and demand goes up.
Could you share more of the negative feedback you get about sharing pricing matrixes...I get the same thing from folks all the time but as a teacher, I'm there for my students and clients to not only learn about this professionally but also what not to accept as a "fair price" or "pricing method." Thanks in advance and love the channel...
At the end of the day, take the price the client/student thinks is fair, subtract out the materials - including consumables (and you're probably already at a negative number given some of these nutjobs' ideas of pricing), then divide by the number of hours it took to build, then tell them that per-hour price, and ask them if they'd work for that at their job. Their answer will be, 100% of the time, "no way". Then ask them to tell you how much they make per hour after their costs, etc., and when they refuse to answer, politely tell them, "Turns out I'm under charging you, now that I've done the math. Let's adjust that price up to where it should be before I made my math mistakes." I've done this. I got paid. :)
my mans over here keeping my turtle bros safe. What a legend. More seriously though, I'm glad you showed the Rubio part. While I've seen many a youtuber use it, and I have also used it, that was the first time I saw Rubio with color in it. I've been wondering what it looks like.
Your comments right up front about accuracy really hit home for me. I've been learning how to make simple boxes and drawers. My progress has been limited by my inability (or lack of attention) to cut each piece accurately enough to fit together in a craftsman like manner. My advice to anyone who cares is to not compromise on the first few pieces thinking that you can compensate later or that it will be okay anyway. Doing it over from scratch is not only expensive, but a royal pain in the A$$.
The inlay method I feel could solve problems in more than just this beautiful table you’ve built. Thanks for that awesome tip I’m stealing that. The Rubio really made the grain pop for sure. I actually am a fan of knots or what people refer to as imperfections. It proves it wasn’t made by some crazy AI robot.
Greetings Jody, Many thanks for another excellent video 🎉 I have always enjoyed your tips and tricks videos, they've saved me so much time,money and tears 😁 To see you now producing product/ project videos is great. Keep up your great work and thank you!! Cam
We all can pick holes in our work and we are great at doing it the challenge is working out how to cover them up and you did so props to you and besides I think the inlay sets it off. Nice build
This is why I love your videos so much - a lot of great information explained in a no nonsense manner. The discussion about joint movement about where and why you glued up at different points is extremely valuable - things you don't think about. Beautiful table!
Great job, I really like the way you produce your videos without getting overly technical, but at the same time, walking us through each step. Keep up the good work. By the way: great book, are you perhaps a member of "the nation"?
How much is anything worth? 🤷🏼♂️. The cost of the materials plus your time * your craftsmanship level. I like that you looked around the internet to find about what others are asking.
Beautiful table, and I think your "mistake" made it even nicer, leading to the addition of the sapele band around the middle. One suggestion: rather than trying to get that band cut to exactly the right length, cut it about 4 inches longer than necessary, and taper the thickness on the last two inches of both ends, tapering the top side of one end, and the bottom side of the other. When you glue it down, overlap those tapered ends. That way you won't end up with a visible seam or gap. You'll want to be extra careful when bringing that part of the band down flush with the wood of the top; sanding it flush in that area would probably be safer than routing.
I have that same planer. How do keep from getting snipe on the ends? I've tried all the tricks people suggest on CZcams and I still get about a 16th or an inch deep snipe that cuts in almost 2 inches. Also, this table is beautiful and I'm learning so much from your channel. Thank you!
I know that I can probably find the answer to this with a simple search. You may have, in fact, covered this topic before. Regarding glue: I started using Titebond III exclusively because I figured it was suitable for indoor or outdoor projects and I guess I have been blissfully ignorant. When you talked about using III instead of II, it wrecked by happiness lol. Other than the color (that you mentioned), why should we be concerned about which to use? I am speaking specifically about the Titebond brand but I suppose it would apply to any of the premium consumer glues out there.
I'd actually like to hear more about pricing your work. How much do materials cost, what do you consider you hourly rate for time spent, what percentage of tools cost gets put into each project that uses that tool, consumables like sanding discs, etc and finally pricing compared to availability of alternatives and that's not even considering pricing based on artistic merit.
Below is a comment you might find useful. I posted this comment in response to a recent video from Keith Johnson Custom Woodworking. “This really was an excellent video. Techniques; thought processes; hindsight errors - really a great video for anyone to watch so that they can understand all the issues and angst that you I would have loved potential clients to watch this and see how many hours it takes to build something - let alone the design hours (I’m retired now and so don’t build for profit although I seem busier than ever with all those jobs for a new home). I tried to base my costs upon an equivalent of £40 per hour (that includes labour, consumables and workshop recovery) plus materials. So, at 100 hours, I would be looking to charge £4,000 plus materials for these legs alone. I’ll assume the walnut was around £2,000: that makes the legs £6,000. I’ll bet that not many of my old clients would guess that much. I can hear a couple now “that shouldn’t take you long” “couple of days work”. My answer was two-fold. Firstly, I charged for design which was fully refundable if we went ahead (not only did this stop people asking for stuff on a whim, it also stopped people taking my designs elsewhere). Secondly, I charged a hefty deposit based upon total cost of materials plus some; this was non-refundable in any event. It cut down the number of designs I did but increased dramatically the idea-to-design-to-completion conversion rate. Truthfully, the number of people who can or want to pay all this for a couple of desks is minuscule as a percentage of the population and is so small that it doesn’t seem able to keep the number of available skilled craftsmen fully occupied. I only know of one person in my part of the UK who can keep his business (2 or 3 people) fully busy with profitable bespoke work. Everyone else either does part time teaching and/or works for low wages. That is why, certainly on the UK, the whole woodworking sector is increasingly non-commercial (I could say non- professional or hobby but they seem even more demeaning; I really mean people who don’t make things for a full time living) and therefore suppliers increasingly focussed upon that sector.”
Below is a comment you might find useful. I posted this comment in response to a recent video from Keith Johnson Custom Woodworking but it doesn’t cover how you calculate the number of hours that you think a job is going to take you. Unless you are a genius, the answer for me was guess and experience. Did I ever get it right? Probably not. Because it’s impossible to be sure about a one-off. Experience really helps - which is not a helpful comment for a starter but I really don’t know any other way to work out timings. I would say that having a couple of jobs on the go at one time helps in that you can put a glue up on job A to one side for curing but you can still work on job B. However, we did have some jobs which were so large that we could only do that one job; we tried to build in the lost time for curing into the costing. My main concern truthfully was to not under-calculate; I would rather lose a job than lose money on it. I had that luxury because our woodworking business was a sideline completely different from my main company; therefore, I didn’t rely upon the wood income for the essentials. “This really was an excellent video. Techniques; thought processes; hindsight errors - really a great video for anyone to watch so that they can understand all the issues and angst that you go through when you design and make something. I would have loved potential clients to watch this and see how many hours it takes to build something - let alone the design hours (I’m retired now and so don’t build for profit although I seem busier than ever with all those jobs for a new home). I tried to base my costs upon an equivalent of £40 per hour (that includes labour, consumables and workshop recovery) plus materials. So, at 100 hours, I would be looking to charge £4,000 plus materials for these legs alone. I’ll assume the walnut was around £2,000: that makes the legs £6,000. I’ll bet that not many of my old clients would guess that much. I can hear a couple now “that shouldn’t take you long” “couple of days work”. My answer was two-fold. Firstly, I charged for design which was fully refundable if we went ahead (not only did this stop people asking for stuff on a whim, it also stopped people taking my designs elsewhere). Secondly, I charged a hefty deposit based upon total cost of materials plus some; this was non-refundable in any event. It cut down the number of designs I did but increased dramatically the idea-to-design-to-completion conversion rate. Truthfully, the number of people who can or want to pay all this for a couple of desks is minuscule as a percentage of the population and is so small that it doesn’t seem able to keep the number of available skilled craftsmen fully occupied. I only know of one person in my part of the UK who can keep his business (2 or 3 people) fully busy with profitable bespoke work. Everyone else either does part time teaching and/or works for low wages. That is why, certainly on the UK, the whole woodworking sector is increasingly non-commercial (I could say non- professional or hobby but they seem even more demeaning; I really mean people who don’t make things for a full time living) and therefore suppliers increasingly focussed upon that sector.”
@Peter Fordham I'm the last person to give advice on pricing, honestly. I can do all the rest of it. But I am pretty sure I've lost money on every project that I've ever sold. It's kind of the reason I switched to content creation. For this build, material cost, as far as wood goes, was only around $150. In my particular situation, since I film everything, man-hours are extremely hard to calculate. The filming aspect easily doubles to triples the amount of time it would normally take. For me there's a mental hurdle of setting a price and then thinking that I've way overpriced it, simply because I wouldn't pay that price. There's not a chance you could convince me to buy this table for $1300. Even without the imperfections. But that's because I can make this table myself, and I don't have that kind of income. That's why I've been looking at what other folks are selling things at, and reverse engineering it from there.
@@InspireWoodcraft very interesting. I hope my comment (posted a couple of hours ago) helps in a small way. I don’t think any maker could hope to compete with what factories churn out. I can’t even buy the material for the price that some stores, or online retailer sell for. It’s my experience that you have to find a niche - that’s easier said than done but, one way, is to focus upon bespoke pieces that are unique to that client or that room. A stand alone table can be bought anywhere but, if you were to introduce something unique like a live edge or to fit into a particular spot, then you are doing something that the mass-producers cannot. Having said all that, your target market is a fraction of one percent of the population. In a large country, that is still a numerically large number but there are a lot of makers chasing those relatively few, very rich, discerning clients. The overwhelming majority of table buyers just could not afford - or could not see the advantages - of an heirloom piece. Another way of making my point is that you should not worry about pricing so much as finding the client pool. Find those clients and then you can worry about pricing. The right client will pay the price you need for the piece they desire. The wrong client won’t pay at all. My (sideline) woodworking business started because a l client of my main business and I started to talk about furniture design and it turned out that this guy (an American working over here) just loved Arts and Crafts furniture as I do. He was a very senior investment banker and could afford to indulge. So, I made him a piece; then another piece and it bloomed from there. His circle of friends also loved those styles and so I made a lot of pieces which each cost a lot of money - but usually came back to about £40 per design/making hour plus materials. That was still a fraction of what he earned but it gave us a profit and a lot of pleasure. Eventually, as was bound to happen, that circle kind of run out of steam. I could have carried on by starting to market pieces but, frankly, I couldn’t be bothered for the investment required and the likely amount of return we would get. So, we were very lucky not only to find the circle but also not to be reliant for main income on furniture making.
Ah, the age old question - what should something cost? Do you listen to people that know the price of everything, but the value of nothing? You can, but these are not mass produced items. Do you listen to yourself and question what you would pay for it? Another, you can, but...Watching skilled people in other trades, professions, can make things appear simple and easy. Yes, everything can be simple if you want to invest in the tooling and time required to become a professional. I'd get questions some of the time of why what I did was so much more than someone else - my reply was, who am I to tell someone else what to price their services at - they are a better judge than me what they are worth. We've all been given different talents. Yours being you are a true craftsman and a skilled teacher. If you provide for your family and find meaning, a purpose in that, that can be good enough. How do we go from hobby, to I gave myself a job, to running a business? Is that even something you desire? Each one of those steps entail new challenges that not everyone is prepared for. Advice, is easy to give, but hard to take. I'm at a crossroads as life has thrown some challenges my direction. I was good at what I did, but it was time to move on and have considered working with wood. Your channel brings to mind; the more things change, the more they stay the same. 🙂 Sorry for the unsolicited advice.
@Splestrie That's weird. I don't remember using Total Boat on this project. Nor do I work with them. Oh wait, my shirt! Maybe that's what you meant. Yes, I wore a shirt with Total Boat on it. I also wore ones from Basballism, Rake Baseball Co., and CE Auto Electric Supply... So, there's that.
@@InspireWoodcraft Yes, the shirt. Sorry, I wasn’t trying to be a dick. I see so many TB products in YT videos, I was trying to make a funny about that.
Another amazing video. Thank you. Maybe a dumb question.. towards the end, why chamfer with a block plane rather than a trim router with chamfer bit? Was it just convenience (switching bits etc) or is there a more nuanced reason?
The tearout from the router. It’s a round panel with the fibers running in whichever direction; typically with rectangles or squares you’d end up climb cutting near corners to avoid tearout, but on a circle it’s not quite possible. Champfering with a router works (somewhat) on dense wood such as maple, sapele or padauk but on ash or oak you’re better off using a block plane.
@homeskillet Thank you. No dumb questions! The main reason I didn't use a router is that I had already sanded the sides and didn't want router bearing marks in the finished surface.
@Qulevrius Tearout is one of the biggest issues working with Ash, for sure. Usually on chamfers this small, I don't have problems using the router. But always better safe than sorry! I just wanted to add though that you can definitely do climb cuts on circles. If you notice, the scene where I routed the inlay channel was a climb cut. (I had to switch back and forth between climb and traditional as the grain changed.) In fact, climb cutting that chamfer would pose no mre of a risk that traditional cutting, simply because you'd be taking off so little material. I just didn't want router bearing marks on the finished edge.
Glad to know someone as skilled and reputable as you gets the hate as well. I’ve been making some very unique chessboards which require pieces with magnets in the base so I have to make the pieces as well as the board which makes the whole set extremely expensive. Tons of people call me a scam artist for charging more than $100 for chess related anything lol.
Was the amount you cut your dominos, to offset the "channel" that you routed for the base to set in? Was the difference too small for the domino depth settings? Also you changed my mind about Ash, looks great.
@Brad B Yes, that's exactly why I trimmed the Dominoes down. I may have been able to get away with just switching to a different depth of cut, but this was simpler to keep track of.
At the end of the day you have to price things in accordance with how long it takes you to make it, and from there you just let the market decide what is worth buying and what isn't. Otherwise you end up chasing your tail around making projects that aren't profitable
It looks like you’re using a miter fence in the reverse direction than I’ve typically seen. Is there a benefit to doing it this way, or more of a personal preference? Thank you.
@Jordan Moorer Using the miter gauge backwards gives you more capacity. Because this wood started out as 1-3/4" thick the blade had to be pretty high, reducing the amount of capacity in front of the blade. Turning the miter gauge around fixes that issue. Hope that helps!
Is seasonal wood movement really a thing? Maybe I just live in a climate where it isn't an issue. I built a small console table and some end tables about 4 years ago right when I was getting in to wood working. I attached the top to the frame using pocket screws on all 3 tables. They are all still rock solid and from what I can tell have had no movement issues. I watch so many videos that worry and plan for seasonal wood movement. But I guess I have just never seen it actually be an issue.
@Corey Burnett I've never had much of an issue with it either, but there are some folks in climates that have very drastic changes thought the year and they definitely have to pay attention to it. I would also take it into consideration if I was shipping a piece to another part of the country.
I've never understood why some people get so upset about the cost of something ... who cares if you think whether it's worth it or not, it's the person buying it who matters! I think your table is gorgeous, but no way I'd pay that amount for it, hell I'd even probably be in shock at the cost of the wood ... but I've got no problem with someone who did pay that amount, it's their money!
To those who would be "appalled" that you left the knot.... it's wood. If y'all don't like knots (and grain) buy or build your garbage out of sheets of plexi and leave the rest of us alone. Wood has character.
I thought about your design and changes you could make to it for it to become more usable. The whole could of been built with 3/4” materials and while you have the circular jig handy you could of made the table in layers like a cake and stacked upon lazy Susan bearings to create multilevel bookshelves. By making the overall design of less costlier materials and adding functionality your pricing would be much more reasonable. I also never use any type of alignment dowels, biscuits or dominoes on any large flat panel. They are all unnecessary and as you have mentioned create unforeseen consequences. Your idea to improvise, adapt and overcome worked out well.
Gotta say...your videos are the most relevant for woodworking on CZcams!! Appreciate you!
Well, as I said in your other video on this table ... it isn't worth $1300 to me to buy, but I certainly have no problem with selling it at that price. Something is worth what people will pay for it.
I love that you put a typo in the title just to get clicks! You’re savage!
@wiitworks Ha! I didn't know HOW to spell it. There are conflicting answers online.
I remember the original video,your voice over confirms many of the design c& build assumptions I made while watching. Beautiful work as always & great dialogue
You are spot on about price. People are going to buy what they are going to buy. Period. Moving forward, more and more people will be unable to do physical tasks like make things for themselves or fix there own things which means price and demand goes up.
Could you share more of the negative feedback you get about sharing pricing matrixes...I get the same thing from folks all the time but as a teacher, I'm there for my students and clients to not only learn about this professionally but also what not to accept as a "fair price" or "pricing method." Thanks in advance and love the channel...
At the end of the day, take the price the client/student thinks is fair, subtract out the materials - including consumables (and you're probably already at a negative number given some of these nutjobs' ideas of pricing), then divide by the number of hours it took to build, then tell them that per-hour price, and ask them if they'd work for that at their job.
Their answer will be, 100% of the time, "no way".
Then ask them to tell you how much they make per hour after their costs, etc., and when they refuse to answer, politely tell them, "Turns out I'm under charging you, now that I've done the math. Let's adjust that price up to where it should be before I made my math mistakes."
I've done this. I got paid. :)
my mans over here keeping my turtle bros safe. What a legend.
More seriously though, I'm glad you showed the Rubio part. While I've seen many a youtuber use it, and I have also used it, that was the first time I saw Rubio with color in it. I've been wondering what it looks like.
Your comments right up front about accuracy really hit home for me. I've been learning how to make simple boxes and drawers. My progress has been limited by my inability (or lack of attention) to cut each piece accurately enough to fit together in a craftsman like manner. My advice to anyone who cares is to not compromise on the first few pieces thinking that you can compensate later or that it will be okay anyway. Doing it over from scratch is not only expensive, but a royal pain in the A$$.
The inlay method I feel could solve problems in more than just this beautiful table you’ve built. Thanks for that awesome tip I’m stealing that. The Rubio really made the grain pop for sure. I actually am a fan of knots or what people refer to as imperfections. It proves it wasn’t made by some crazy AI robot.
The turtles are safe! 🤣 Beautiful woodworking and strategic adjustments along the way.
Nice work Jamie, the table is beautiful.
Nice table. I think I missed your explanation of why it's price would be $1300. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂
A great video as usual! I especially liked your explanation on handling the wood movements. I look forward to all your videos and explanations.
Beautiful table, dude! Really amazing work! 😃
Thanks for all the tips you always give!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Nice design and great work !
Greetings Jody, Many thanks for another excellent video 🎉 I have always enjoyed your tips and tricks videos, they've saved me so much time,money and tears 😁 To see you now producing product/ project videos is great. Keep up your great work and thank you!! Cam
We all can pick holes in our work and we are great at doing it the challenge is working out how to cover them up and you did so props to you and besides I think the inlay sets it off. Nice build
People who don't like knots are not my kind of people. Nice work and I 've seen similar table go for more. Your projected price is not insane.
😂😂 I do the same thing to my wife and had to show her that part
Excellent video
looks great!
Another great video, Jodee. And that's a beautiful table. Love ash and that white rubio is the perfect finish. Well done, sir.
@MakerMark Thank you, Mark.
Well done with placing that particular book on the table for the glamour shot. Apropos given your talk track!
Thanks for pointing that out!
This is why I love your videos so much - a lot of great information explained in a no nonsense manner. The discussion about joint movement about where and why you glued up at different points is extremely valuable - things you don't think about. Beautiful table!
I have learned a lot from yo Jody. Thank you.
Great job, I really like the way you produce your videos without getting overly technical, but at the same time, walking us through each step. Keep up the good work. By the way: great book, are you perhaps a member of "the nation"?
How much is anything worth? 🤷🏼♂️. The cost of the materials plus your time * your craftsmanship level. I like that you looked around the internet to find about what others are asking.
Beautiful table, and I think your "mistake" made it even nicer, leading to the addition of the sapele band around the middle.
One suggestion: rather than trying to get that band cut to exactly the right length, cut it about 4 inches longer than necessary, and taper the thickness on the last two inches of both ends, tapering the top side of one end, and the bottom side of the other. When you glue it down, overlap those tapered ends. That way you won't end up with a visible seam or gap. You'll want to be extra careful when bringing that part of the band down flush with the wood of the top; sanding it flush in that area would probably be safer than routing.
Thanks
I have that same planer. How do keep from getting snipe on the ends? I've tried all the tricks people suggest on CZcams and I still get about a 16th or an inch deep snipe that cuts in almost 2 inches.
Also, this table is beautiful and I'm learning so much from your channel. Thank you!
thanks
Be very careful with your oily rags at the end of the project! Jason Gibbs just scared the crap out of me at Bourbon Moth.
I know that I can probably find the answer to this with a simple search. You may have, in fact, covered this topic before. Regarding glue: I started using Titebond III exclusively because I figured it was suitable for indoor or outdoor projects and I guess I have been blissfully ignorant. When you talked about using III instead of II, it wrecked by happiness lol. Other than the color (that you mentioned), why should we be concerned about which to use? I am speaking specifically about the Titebond brand but I suppose it would apply to any of the premium consumer glues out there.
I'd actually like to hear more about pricing your work. How much do materials cost, what do you consider you hourly rate for time spent, what percentage of tools cost gets put into each project that uses that tool, consumables like sanding discs, etc and finally pricing compared to availability of alternatives and that's not even considering pricing based on artistic merit.
Below is a comment you might find useful. I posted this comment in response to a recent video from Keith Johnson Custom Woodworking.
“This really was an excellent video. Techniques; thought processes; hindsight errors - really a great video for anyone to watch so that they can understand all the issues and angst that you
I would have loved potential clients to watch this and see how many hours it takes to build something - let alone the design hours (I’m retired now and so don’t build for profit although I seem busier than ever with all those jobs for a new home). I tried to base my costs upon an equivalent of £40 per hour (that includes labour, consumables and workshop recovery) plus materials. So, at 100 hours, I would be looking to charge £4,000 plus materials for these legs alone. I’ll assume the walnut was around £2,000: that makes the legs £6,000. I’ll bet that not many of my old clients would guess that much. I can hear a couple now “that shouldn’t take you long” “couple of days work”.
My answer was two-fold. Firstly, I charged for design which was fully refundable if we went ahead (not only did this stop people asking for stuff on a whim, it also stopped people taking my designs elsewhere). Secondly, I charged a hefty deposit based upon total cost of materials plus some; this was non-refundable in any event. It cut down the number of designs I did but increased dramatically the idea-to-design-to-completion conversion rate.
Truthfully, the number of people who can or want to pay all this for a couple of desks is minuscule as a percentage of the population and is so small that it doesn’t seem able to keep the number of available skilled craftsmen fully occupied. I only know of one person in my part of the UK who can keep his business (2 or 3 people) fully busy with profitable bespoke work. Everyone else either does part time teaching and/or works for low wages. That is why, certainly on the UK, the whole woodworking sector is increasingly non-commercial (I could say non- professional or hobby but they seem even more demeaning; I really mean people who don’t make things for a full time living) and therefore suppliers increasingly focussed upon that sector.”
Below is a comment you might find useful. I posted this comment in response to a recent video from Keith Johnson Custom Woodworking but it doesn’t cover how you calculate the number of hours that you think a job is going to take you. Unless you are a genius, the answer for me was guess and experience. Did I ever get it right? Probably not. Because it’s impossible to be sure about a one-off. Experience really helps - which is not a helpful comment for a starter but I really don’t know any other way to work out timings. I would say that having a couple of jobs on the go at one time helps in that you can put a glue up on job A to one side for curing but you can still work on job B. However, we did have some jobs which were so large that we could only do that one job; we tried to build in the lost time for curing into the costing. My main concern truthfully was to not under-calculate; I would rather lose a job than lose money on it. I had that luxury because our woodworking business was a sideline completely different from my main company; therefore, I didn’t rely upon the wood income for the essentials.
“This really was an excellent video. Techniques; thought processes; hindsight errors - really a great video for anyone to watch so that they can understand all the issues and angst that you go through when you design and make something.
I would have loved potential clients to watch this and see how many hours it takes to build something - let alone the design hours (I’m retired now and so don’t build for profit although I seem busier than ever with all those jobs for a new home). I tried to base my costs upon an equivalent of £40 per hour (that includes labour, consumables and workshop recovery) plus materials. So, at 100 hours, I would be looking to charge £4,000 plus materials for these legs alone. I’ll assume the walnut was around £2,000: that makes the legs £6,000. I’ll bet that not many of my old clients would guess that much. I can hear a couple now “that shouldn’t take you long” “couple of days work”.
My answer was two-fold. Firstly, I charged for design which was fully refundable if we went ahead (not only did this stop people asking for stuff on a whim, it also stopped people taking my designs elsewhere). Secondly, I charged a hefty deposit based upon total cost of materials plus some; this was non-refundable in any event. It cut down the number of designs I did but increased dramatically the idea-to-design-to-completion conversion rate.
Truthfully, the number of people who can or want to pay all this for a couple of desks is minuscule as a percentage of the population and is so small that it doesn’t seem able to keep the number of available skilled craftsmen fully occupied. I only know of one person in my part of the UK who can keep his business (2 or 3 people) fully busy with profitable bespoke work. Everyone else either does part time teaching and/or works for low wages. That is why, certainly on the UK, the whole woodworking sector is increasingly non-commercial (I could say non- professional or hobby but they seem even more demeaning; I really mean people who don’t make things for a full time living) and therefore suppliers increasingly focussed upon that sector.”
@Peter Fordham I'm the last person to give advice on pricing, honestly. I can do all the rest of it. But I am pretty sure I've lost money on every project that I've ever sold. It's kind of the reason I switched to content creation. For this build, material cost, as far as wood goes, was only around $150. In my particular situation, since I film everything, man-hours are extremely hard to calculate. The filming aspect easily doubles to triples the amount of time it would normally take.
For me there's a mental hurdle of setting a price and then thinking that I've way overpriced it, simply because I wouldn't pay that price. There's not a chance you could convince me to buy this table for $1300. Even without the imperfections. But that's because I can make this table myself, and I don't have that kind of income.
That's why I've been looking at what other folks are selling things at, and reverse engineering it from there.
@@InspireWoodcraft very interesting. I hope my comment (posted a couple of hours ago) helps in a small way. I don’t think any maker could hope to compete with what factories churn out. I can’t even buy the material for the price that some stores, or online retailer sell for. It’s my experience that you have to find a niche - that’s easier said than done but, one way, is to focus upon bespoke pieces that are unique to that client or that room. A stand alone table can be bought anywhere but, if you were to introduce something unique like a live edge or to fit into a particular spot, then you are doing something that the mass-producers cannot. Having said all that, your target market is a fraction of one percent of the population. In a large country, that is still a numerically large number but there are a lot of makers chasing those relatively few, very rich, discerning clients. The overwhelming majority of table buyers just could not afford - or could not see the advantages - of an heirloom piece.
Another way of making my point is that you should not worry about pricing so much as finding the client pool. Find those clients and then you can worry about pricing. The right client will pay the price you need for the piece they desire. The wrong client won’t pay at all.
My (sideline) woodworking business started because a l client of my main business and I started to talk about furniture design and it turned out that this guy (an American working over here) just loved Arts and Crafts furniture as I do. He was a very senior investment banker and could afford to indulge. So, I made him a piece; then another piece and it bloomed from there. His circle of friends also loved those styles and so I made a lot of pieces which each cost a lot of money - but usually came back to about £40 per design/making hour plus materials. That was still a fraction of what he earned but it gave us a profit and a lot of pleasure. Eventually, as was bound to happen, that circle kind of run out of steam. I could have carried on by starting to market pieces but, frankly, I couldn’t be bothered for the investment required and the likely amount of return we would get. So, we were very lucky not only to find the circle but also not to be reliant for main income on furniture making.
Ah, the age old question - what should something cost?
Do you listen to people that know the price of everything, but the value of nothing? You can, but these are not mass produced items.
Do you listen to yourself and question what you would pay for it? Another, you can, but...Watching skilled people in other trades, professions, can make things appear simple and easy. Yes, everything can be simple if you want to invest in the tooling and time required to become a professional. I'd get questions some of the time of why what I did was so much more than someone else - my reply was, who am I to tell someone else what to price their services at - they are a better judge than me what they are worth.
We've all been given different talents. Yours being you are a true craftsman and a skilled teacher. If you provide for your family and find meaning, a purpose in that, that can be good enough.
How do we go from hobby, to I gave myself a job, to running a business? Is that even something you desire? Each one of those steps entail new challenges that not everyone is prepared for. Advice, is easy to give, but hard to take.
I'm at a crossroads as life has thrown some challenges my direction. I was good at what I did, but it was time to move on and have considered working with wood. Your channel brings to mind; the more things change, the more they stay the same. 🙂
Sorry for the unsolicited advice.
Just curious... what's the scraper used for at time marker 3: 14? Remove excess glue? If yes...where can I get one? It looked very ergonomic.
“I’m going to start this the way all projects start, with some TotalBoat product placement.”
@Splestrie That's weird. I don't remember using Total Boat on this project. Nor do I work with them.
Oh wait, my shirt! Maybe that's what you meant. Yes, I wore a shirt with Total Boat on it. I also wore ones from Basballism, Rake Baseball Co., and CE Auto Electric Supply... So, there's that.
@@InspireWoodcraft Yes, the shirt. Sorry, I wasn’t trying to be a dick. I see so many TB products in YT videos, I was trying to make a funny about that.
@Splestrie 😂 No worries at all. I get it.
Another amazing video. Thank you. Maybe a dumb question.. towards the end, why chamfer with a block plane rather than a trim router with chamfer bit? Was it just convenience (switching bits etc) or is there a more nuanced reason?
The tearout from the router. It’s a round panel with the fibers running in whichever direction; typically with rectangles or squares you’d end up climb cutting near corners to avoid tearout, but on a circle it’s not quite possible. Champfering with a router works (somewhat) on dense wood such as maple, sapele or padauk but on ash or oak you’re better off using a block plane.
@homeskillet Thank you. No dumb questions! The main reason I didn't use a router is that I had already sanded the sides and didn't want router bearing marks in the finished surface.
@Qulevrius Tearout is one of the biggest issues working with Ash, for sure. Usually on chamfers this small, I don't have problems using the router. But always better safe than sorry! I just wanted to add though that you can definitely do climb cuts on circles. If you notice, the scene where I routed the inlay channel was a climb cut. (I had to switch back and forth between climb and traditional as the grain changed.) In fact, climb cutting that chamfer would pose no mre of a risk that traditional cutting, simply because you'd be taking off so little material. I just didn't want router bearing marks on the finished edge.
Glad to know someone as skilled and reputable as you gets the hate as well. I’ve been making some very unique chessboards which require pieces with magnets in the base so I have to make the pieces as well as the board which makes the whole set extremely expensive. Tons of people call me a scam artist for charging more than $100 for chess related anything lol.
I would love to see what you are making! Can you send us an email with your contact info? Inspirewoodcraft@gmail.com
Was the amount you cut your dominos, to offset the "channel" that you routed for the base to set in? Was the difference too small for the domino depth settings? Also you changed my mind about Ash, looks great.
@Brad B Yes, that's exactly why I trimmed the Dominoes down. I may have been able to get away with just switching to a different depth of cut, but this was simpler to keep track of.
At the end of the day you have to price things in accordance with how long it takes you to make it, and from there you just let the market decide what is worth buying and what isn't. Otherwise you end up chasing your tail around making projects that aren't profitable
It looks like you’re using a miter fence in the reverse direction than I’ve typically seen. Is there a benefit to doing it this way, or more of a personal preference? Thank you.
@Jordan Moorer Using the miter gauge backwards gives you more capacity. Because this wood started out as 1-3/4" thick the blade had to be pretty high, reducing the amount of capacity in front of the blade. Turning the miter gauge around fixes that issue. Hope that helps!
@@InspireWoodcraft Oh my gosh it does! I needed this just last week. THANK YOU!
7:00 Why didn't you just take the radius minus the depth of the groove, to get the circumference?
Is seasonal wood movement really a thing? Maybe I just live in a climate where it isn't an issue. I built a small console table and some end tables about 4 years ago right when I was getting in to wood working. I attached the top to the frame using pocket screws on all 3 tables. They are all still rock solid and from what I can tell have had no movement issues. I watch so many videos that worry and plan for seasonal wood movement. But I guess I have just never seen it actually be an issue.
@Corey Burnett I've never had much of an issue with it either, but there are some folks in climates that have very drastic changes thought the year and they definitely have to pay attention to it. I would also take it into consideration if I was shipping a piece to another part of the country.
Another factor is how well seasoned and acclimated to finished product's location was the lumber prior to its milling and construction.
I've never understood why some people get so upset about the cost of something ... who cares if you think whether it's worth it or not, it's the person buying it who matters!
I think your table is gorgeous, but no way I'd pay that amount for it, hell I'd even probably be in shock at the cost of the wood ... but I've got no problem with someone who did pay that amount, it's their money!
@Barry Christie Agreed!
Watch. This is how a craftsman works.
1300? It your customer is happy seems ok to me. I’m building a record cabinet and just dropped 1500 on walnut and maple alone.
Thank you for keeping the straws out of sea turtles’ nostrils.
I don't see the knot either :)
To those who would be "appalled" that you left the knot.... it's wood. If y'all don't like knots (and grain) buy or build your garbage out of sheets of plexi and leave the rest of us alone. Wood has character.
I thought about your design and changes you could make to it for it to become more usable. The whole could of been built with 3/4” materials and while you have the circular jig handy you could of made the table in layers like a cake and stacked upon lazy Susan bearings to create multilevel bookshelves. By making the overall design of less costlier materials and adding functionality your pricing would be much more reasonable. I also never use any type of alignment dowels, biscuits or dominoes on any large flat panel. They are all unnecessary and as you have mentioned create unforeseen consequences. Your idea to improvise, adapt and overcome worked out well.
$1300 for end table is cheap, imo.