What is Peach Canker - How to Prevent it - What to Do If You Get It

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  • čas přidán 10. 06. 2018
  • When growing stone fruit, canker is something that is a reality for almost every gardener. It affects peaches far more often than any other crop however and so in this video i will show you what peach canker is, how to I.D it, how to prevent it, and what to do if your trees get it.
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Komentáře • 144

  • @HaphazardHomestead
    @HaphazardHomestead Před 6 lety +55

    I think you are talking about Peach Leaf Curl, rather than any actual Canker diseases. The leaves you showed had Curl. Canker affects the woody parts of the tree and appears as a gummy sap oozing out of the tree or branches. One type of Canker is from a fungus and another type is from bacteria. They can both get into a tree from damaged buds, so it's not just poor pruning practices. In the Pacific Northwest, where I am, the cool and wet springtime makes Peach Leaf Curl a major problem. I have been happy with the Oregon Curlfree Peach. It seems immune to Peach Leaf Curl. There are fewer trees resistant to Canker. But the Charlotte Peach is highly resistant to both Peach Leaf Curl and Bacterial Canker. Aggressive pruning during dry weather can help a lot with both Bacterial Canker and Fungal Canker. Enjoy your peaches! Your trees look in great shape!

    • @wesmurphy9725
      @wesmurphy9725 Před 5 lety +2

      Agreed, the bubbles on the leaf are leaf curl

    • @unafilliatedx2310
      @unafilliatedx2310 Před 5 lety +1

      Correct

    • @egyptnepthys5177
      @egyptnepthys5177 Před 4 lety

      wes murphy then why isn’t the leaf curled?

    • @noahmeme2
      @noahmeme2 Před 4 lety

      I live in Puget sound and just planted a frost peach. I hope I don't get any disease.

    • @atipsygypsylife
      @atipsygypsylife Před 4 lety +1

      What treats gummosis? I can't find any videos on TREATMENT of gummosis...i have ornamental cherry tree with it..i also am in the PNW

  • @smallgardenbigdreams3808
    @smallgardenbigdreams3808 Před 6 lety +2

    Glad you did this I bought a cherry tree that had canker after I realised what was wrong I saw a video by huws nursery cutting it out of apples so I decided to try that and see what happens this year as I didn’t want to cut down my first year tree so seeing you doing the easier stuff like debris removal and you say that’s good enough makes me have more hope it will bounce back ❤️

  • @andrewp.619
    @andrewp.619 Před 6 lety +1

    Great video, Luke. Lots of good information!

  • @moringausa
    @moringausa Před 6 lety +3

    Thank you Luke! Enjoying the channel!

  • @robbiebyrd1307
    @robbiebyrd1307 Před 6 lety +1

    Thanks so much for the information. I was just outside looking over my garden and notice very small amount of sap from my new peach tree. I had notice some leave with spots, I had removed them but did nothing else to tree. Your video came right on time. Thanks again.

  • @frankdavidson9675
    @frankdavidson9675 Před 3 lety +4

    im 86 yrs old i have been around peaches all my life so to speak ive never had a canker problem and as for as leaf curl i spray in the fall after leafe drop with copper and daconil mix diluted it will cur 97 problems on peaches and pecan trees that stays trees and winters over if you spray you have again till you do spray i live about 15 miles for the largest peach orchard onthe east coast 80 acres i got some big peaches today about 4 inchin diameter perfect if the leaves are not shinny green they may be (sick)

  • @JohnDoe_88
    @JohnDoe_88 Před 6 lety

    Good to know, thanks for making the video as informative as possible

  • @beware_the_moose
    @beware_the_moose Před 6 lety +2

    Awesome, I have a random non peach plant in the garden with leaves like this, now I know what it is!

  • @lezleyd55
    @lezleyd55 Před 2 lety +1

    Thank you. I've never gotten so much information from one video very informative thank you.

  • @LaFanfanTulipe
    @LaFanfanTulipe Před rokem

    My peach tree had so many cankers but now doesn't have any for the last three weeks. I did like this man in the video. I took all sick leaves and every morning I inspect the leaves. The tree is doing well with many peaches, at least 100! My other peach tree, cherry trees have never been affected by those unsightly cankers. Thanks for the tip.

  • @ashleyb5706
    @ashleyb5706 Před 6 lety +3

    My peach tree has this. I always pinched the leaves off because I thought it was from a bug lol Good info!

  • @viperh9948
    @viperh9948 Před 6 lety +9

    Luke,
    Two things. Is that the same as peach leaf curl? Same fungus?
    Second, the spores will go dormant in the ground and stay there. So the recommendations form virtually everywhere is to never keep the leaves or diseased material. It is almost the same as not cleaning pruning equipment. The spores are water borne and stay in the soil, so get rid of them IMO.

  • @chrisgrincht9924
    @chrisgrincht9924 Před 11 měsíci

    Hey Luke, I have been Gardening for many years professionally and as a hobby (about 60 years). I find it hard to find people that will share there expertise here in PA. Sure we have Penn State, that covers the science but it falls short of the tried and true secrets of the trade that you share. This video saved my peach tree. I tried everything, spraying , pruning, praying.....Then you said feed it, feed it , feed it. Let the tree fight it itself! Bingo... Tree looks great today and Has fruit, I had no leaves last season and I was ready to cut it down, Thank YOU!!!!

  • @kleineroteHex
    @kleineroteHex Před 3 lety +2

    peach trees are fast growing, no joke man! I planted this little stick and it took off like there is no tomorrow! Second year with fruit, it is loaded this year and it just grows new branches over night, my little juicy night mare LOL

  • @purpguy69
    @purpguy69 Před 6 lety +1

    Luke! Just picked up some starts of freestone and cling, what’s best way to insure their success in growing?

  • @Sam-lk6eo
    @Sam-lk6eo Před 7 měsíci

    Thanks for the tips !

  • @becky4321
    @becky4321 Před 4 lety +5

    Canker takes over and weakens the tree to other disease and pests, fruit never fully ripens and falls off, then the tree dies. I lost one tree and my other two now have it. I'm trying all sorts of things. I am seeing some improvement with fresh crushed garlic and neem oil poultice.

    • @yaima0901
      @yaima0901 Před 16 dny

      Have you tried iv organic and wrapping the damaged area?

  • @walkbyfaithfamily9177
    @walkbyfaithfamily9177 Před 6 lety +1

    Love your growing guides! Do you have a growing guide on butternut squash???

  • @purrjoy8473
    @purrjoy8473 Před rokem

    This is a great video!

  • @boomst1ck3d
    @boomst1ck3d Před 6 lety +6

    Hey Luke, I am probably one of those people with the ants all over their tree! Should I do something to stop the ants from transferring the fungus through the sap or should I just leave it? These are new trees, planted bare root this april and they do not have a ton of new growth yet. I also do not see any sap but I'll take a closer look when I'm home later. Thanks!

  • @nadfoy
    @nadfoy Před 8 měsíci

    Good information. Thanks.

  • @maximuswedgie5149
    @maximuswedgie5149 Před rokem

    Literally had my SawZall out in the yard to cut down my peach tree when I decided to watch a video first. Now I understand a little more than I did and know not to cut it down. Thanks

  • @carolparrish194
    @carolparrish194 Před 6 lety +1

    I have a big oak tree that had cankers one year but I have not seen it this year. Would you recommend using a systemic on it ?

  • @maggieshreve8107
    @maggieshreve8107 Před 2 lety

    Wow, great info

  • @randalovcen9811
    @randalovcen9811 Před 6 lety +1

    Okay, I need help! I have a Bonanza dwarf peach tree that is four years old. The first year it was a small sapling, the second year a bit bigger leaves but no fruit. Last year fully leafed out with good fruit. This year started out looking promising, plenty of buds but it never got beyond the bud stage. Few leaves, very few and now it is almost bare with lots of bud looking swollen nubs on the branches. It looks like it just stopped mid-development. Any idea whats up with it?

  • @tammier7508
    @tammier7508 Před 5 lety +1

    I live in FL. I have a 3 yr old healthy FL Prince Peach tree. My question is: My leaves have SOME lil orange spot on leaves that turn yellow and the leaves fall off. Any idea what causes this? Thanks

  • @anthonygaribaymusic7091

    Great vid. How’s the cherry tree doing?

  • @florencetoussaint6324
    @florencetoussaint6324 Před 4 lety +1

    Luke ; my peach tree has cankers. It has not flowered for 3 years in a row. What do you suggest ?

  • @bobfinchfarold5125
    @bobfinchfarold5125 Před 6 lety +1

    Is the Frost Peach a good one, and how old are your trees

  • @sherimatthews2958
    @sherimatthews2958 Před 2 lety +1

    My peach tree was new last year. It had a few peaches on it. This year (desert climate) my peach tree had small unopened blooms then they suddenly dried out even though the tree soil is moist. What is wrong? What do I need to do? MIGardener

  • @carolynbillington9018
    @carolynbillington9018 Před rokem +1

    2 peach trees, as I love peaches, but oh boy what a commitment

  • @tonymercado1652
    @tonymercado1652 Před 4 lety

    Hi. Thanks for the insight. To ensure I understand. This cannot be treated and the tree will self cure with come good caring ?

  • @PinkChucky15
    @PinkChucky15 Před 6 lety +2

    I’m sure this will help many people save their tree instead of cutting down the whole thing :-)

  • @PalmettoParatrooper
    @PalmettoParatrooper Před 6 lety +1

    What do I do about the rust on my pears?

  • @virgiem1213
    @virgiem1213 Před 3 lety +1

    What are the green color spots on seed inside the Peach fruit? Is the fresh fruit edible?

  • @TokyoJim618
    @TokyoJim618 Před 6 lety +4

    how about cedar-apple rust?

  • @OpusDeFocus
    @OpusDeFocus Před 2 lety +2

    Question: Would brushing tar over pruned wounds prevent absorption of fungus?

  • @matthewkheyfets1309
    @matthewkheyfets1309 Před 6 lety +1

    I need help with my Peach tree BIG TIME. It came out of dormancy and right as the blossoms started to open, they all died and so did the leaves and it still looks like a dead ghost tree. I was thinking brown rot, but I don't know. I need help really badly but I don't know what this darn thing is.

  • @JaredHempfield
    @JaredHempfield Před 5 lety +2

    leucostoma canker is the correct term and gummosis is one symptom of it. You can tell if your tree has it by the black center of your prunings. Best to remove the infected limbs when dry and burn em. I'd thin your peaches off and let them grow another year :)

  • @carmenzamastil1545
    @carmenzamastil1545 Před 2 lety

    Thanks Luke

  • @anjkovo2138
    @anjkovo2138 Před 6 lety

    Do you know anything about 'POCKET PLUM' Disease? and how to treat?....My plumb tree has it

  • @nicolepago6480
    @nicolepago6480 Před 3 lety

    How do you prune with canker in the winter?

  • @FB-uj2jt
    @FB-uj2jt Před 2 lety

    my peach tree has massive canker can I cut it down to about 70 centimeters from the ground and will it grow again

  • @jhgannon
    @jhgannon Před rokem

    Question. After removing the affected leaves should one leave the fruits on the tree and can they be eaten later? Thanks.

  • @emdeejay7432
    @emdeejay7432 Před rokem +1

    My peach tree doesn't have this bit it's getting red spots all over the leaves, I just sprayed copper yesterday and sprayed some neem oil a few days ago. I hope it helps I'm so worried. It's a brand new beautiful white peach tree, it's already like 5 and a half or over 6ft tall, it even came with one tiny peach on it. It's a giant babcock variety. I really hope it does well. Ughhh, all this humid cool wet weather we've had in socal is making my plants all fungus-y lol... but totally not lol'ing at all

  • @suealvarado428
    @suealvarado428 Před 6 lety

    How thin do you trey canker?

  • @talk2thepaw_nd372
    @talk2thepaw_nd372 Před 6 lety

    Wish I knew this 2 months ago. At least I know now whats wrong with my peaches tree. I'd really appreciate it if you could talk about black rot on grapes and how to treat it.

    • @cathiwim
      @cathiwim Před 4 lety +1

      Talk2ThePaw_ND fungicide such as bonide fruit tree spray. Thats what i use on my grapes

  • @feliciahutchins4237
    @feliciahutchins4237 Před rokem

    Thanks

  • @MrJosholech
    @MrJosholech Před 6 lety +2

    Could you do something on Cedar-Rust?

    • @seerofsorrow
      @seerofsorrow Před 4 lety +1

      Cedar rust requires a fungicide sprayed throughout the growing season. Prune well and keep the area around the tree free from debris. I have apples and my copper fungicide has kept them alive.

  • @blaynesplantvlog7117
    @blaynesplantvlog7117 Před 3 lety

    My orange tree might have it but I don’t know... I see a tiny drop of sap on a branch .... but I don’t see the things on the leaves.....and my tree is only 5 feet... it’s small so I hope it will be ok

  • @carolsanborn5332
    @carolsanborn5332 Před 2 lety

    Thanks for the expertise. Just bought 3 of different varieties today for the first time +would appreciate any advice before I plant them on the South side protected next to the house.
    I bought an Alberta, a Contender, +something just labeled: "Peach tree from Georgia". I have no idea what that 3rd tree is , + Google wouldn't tell me, but it looked fairly healthy +it intrigued me; I couldn't resist for $29.99 each at Walmart. Any idea what should be done with peaches that are not fit to eat? Can they be composted or would that make more problems with the damaged parts that may/may not be diseased? If you plant the stones- will they eventually produce more trees- like Johnny Appleseed's method of planting them here , there +everywhere?
    I have access to old dried up cow manure, but have heard it's not good to fertilize peach trees. Why can't I put some around the root's in the planting hole prior to planting? Then sprinle some on top of the planting hole later too? Should a sprinkle of powdered lime be good to add to the top soil to sweeten it or do peach trees like acidity? Thank you for your advice...

    • @user-qx1om2wj1h
      @user-qx1om2wj1h Před 2 lety

      He mentioned in a another video that it's Better to just stick with the soil you already have so that the tree can get used to it.

  • @sandrat3253
    @sandrat3253 Před 6 lety +1

    thats canker not peach leaf curl? or is it the same?

  • @laurieconnors2024
    @laurieconnors2024 Před 3 lety

    We are so frustrated with our canker infested donut peach tree...it has progressively gotten worse over the past 3 years, this being the 3rd year...it bloomed beautifully leafed out and then comes the gross curl...t is so bad that it was on every branch and most every leaf. I saw somewhere to remove infected leaves, so we removed all of them, yes every leaf and some branches as well. I'm hoping after doing a lot of feeding and watering that it will leaf out again but I think we killed it. What do you guys think, is there any hope?

  • @gracieladixon9054
    @gracieladixon9054 Před 3 lety

    So, there is nothing that will get rid of it from the trees? I noticed the red on my leaves today but I’ve noticed the ants since almost a week ago on all of my trees

  • @nadiaheilmann4123
    @nadiaheilmann4123 Před 6 lety

    This is nothing to do with peaches but can I grow 2 yellow pear tomatoes in a 7 gallon smart pot or in a 20 gallon smart pot?

  • @TrixieM712
    @TrixieM712 Před 6 lety +6

    Peach leaf curl. I would dispose of those leaves. It killed my trees within 3 years even with copper fungicide, Neem and potash etc. My 14 yrs old tree and 6 yr old were just yanked.

    • @HaphazardHomestead
      @HaphazardHomestead Před 6 lety +3

      You might like the Oregon Curlfree Peach or Charlotte. They are both Curl resistant. I've been happy with them, even in the cold, wet springtime in western Oregon. That's tough having to pull out your peach trees!

    • @TrixieM712
      @TrixieM712 Před 6 lety +1

      I put in Japanese plum. Thanks for the suggestion

  • @susanhenley8240
    @susanhenley8240 Před rokem

    We purchased a nectarine tree last year that has had canker... removing leaves sounds easy, but what to do when most of the tree has those red curly leaves???

  • @juliebaker6969
    @juliebaker6969 Před 6 lety +6

    If you can transfer it by not cleaning your equipment, can't you also transfer it with unwashed hands? I noticed you went directly from handling the infected leaves to touching the uninfected tree.

    • @polkadottedpolak
      @polkadottedpolak Před 6 lety +3

      The concern is more about pruners than hands because the pruner is actually causing a "wound" that allows the canker to get directly inside the next plant, because the blades of the pruners created an opening. What Luke is doing with his hands wouldn't do anything more than what wind would do. So technically, in theory, maybe, yes he could transfer canker that way, but it's very unlikely.

  • @vexercisebest-ventour8244
    @vexercisebest-ventour8244 Před 2 měsíci

    Migardener,Please I need help with canker on my peaches it is so much I think am going to loose my trees.

  • @christirillo1101
    @christirillo1101 Před 4 lety +1

    I have a clear jello like gel coming out of my peaches and have no clue what it is. This is my first peach tree and I’m losing all my fruit. Please help. Thanks

    • @magnifikris
      @magnifikris Před 4 lety

      There may be burrowing larvae, there may be oriental moths. That sucks but you can use insecticide or bt.

  • @horrido666
    @horrido666 Před 6 lety

    Can the plant fight it off?

  • @kellyeldershomesteadbeginn8242

    What of is just on the wood/ trunk bottom?

  • @teresamcbrayer2549
    @teresamcbrayer2549 Před 6 lety +4

    There goes your neighbor, mowing his grass again while you're filming

    • @carolsanborn5332
      @carolsanborn5332 Před 2 lety

      That's funny , you are very observant. I was so intent listening that I didn't even notice. His neighbor may have OCD that makes him mow obsessively. Maybe his wife nags him to mow daily, or maybe he just wants to escape a nagging wife + it's his only excuse to do so. LOL. 😆 Or worst of all, prerhaps he spies on this guy +does it to purposely ruin the videos. 🧐

  • @melhenderson8289
    @melhenderson8289 Před 5 lety +2

    Luke, I watch your vids all the time and you are awesome! I have a question about my 4y/o dwarf nectarine tree. Why after 4 yrs. is it not producing buds or fruit? It's very healthy and people tell me how georgous it is, but no fruit. Any suggestions?

    • @lorenzoparedes2306
      @lorenzoparedes2306 Před 2 lety +1

      I think after two years of waiting the answer will come directly from your tree, not from the author of the video.

  • @theadventuresofelizabethma2661

    Thanks Luke. I have a topical copper fungicide spray that claims to be for “organic gardening”. What are your thoughts on this - would you use a product like this and does using this still count as organic gardening?

    • @masstrending5310
      @masstrending5310 Před 6 lety +2

      The Adventures of Elizabeth Marie hi

    • @masstrending5310
      @masstrending5310 Před 6 lety +1

      Am Steffi I want a talk to u I have some doubt discuss

    • @reneejaurequi5808
      @reneejaurequi5808 Před rokem

      I used same spray Nov Jan Feb last year because of summer peach leaf canker. It worked. This last winter season forgot. My peach tree overwhelmed with every leaf 😢

  • @chantellesaayman1941
    @chantellesaayman1941 Před 3 lety

    Can I use milk or yogurt?

  • @anitahernandez1207
    @anitahernandez1207 Před 6 lety +3

    Can you dilute Hydrogen Peroxide with a gallon of water. Then water the base of the plant and spray the leaves and fruit? Obviously take infected growth off the tree. Then add nutrients a couple days later?

    • @serum108
      @serum108 Před 3 lety

      I realize your post is 3 years old but peroxide will work on the canker wound, as will lactobacillus (search for how to make LAB Korean natural farming) there are some hopeful papers in google scholar comparing copper, lacto bacillus subtillus, peroxide. Not saying it will save or cure the tree but at least slow it from further spreading on the tree.

  • @reneebrown2968
    @reneebrown2968 Před 3 lety +1

    Apparently there was a weak spot in the main trunk of the tree. After a few years the tree started to weep sap to the point of making a large ball of amber. During the winter last winter it broke at the ground and fell. So over years yes. Canker will or at least can kill your tree.

  • @markmario5756
    @markmario5756 Před 2 měsíci

    Would peroxide work?

  • @Bronnie336
    @Bronnie336 Před 6 lety +2

    When is the best time to prune peach trees?

  • @tru_passion2424
    @tru_passion2424 Před 6 lety +1

    Thanks great video I had a scare went out and got some spray and never use it . Video came just in time

  • @user-fn8fm7qz1r
    @user-fn8fm7qz1r Před 6 lety +1

    Do a how to grow raspberries in a container

  • @Ashiqah100
    @Ashiqah100 Před 6 lety +1

    Will the ants further the damage?

  • @karinb57
    @karinb57 Před 6 lety +1

    Hi, I bought a small patio peach tree. Planted it and watered it as needed. I wasn't expecting any fruit on it the first year. I was surprised to find about 8 little peaches starting to grow. Then a few days ago all of those fruits had disappeared. There was nothing on the ground, so they didn't just fall off because of being dry or too wet.....or what ever. I really don't know the first thing about peach trees. Do you have any idea what could have caused that to happen and what to do so it doesn't next year.

  • @thomasherrington5521
    @thomasherrington5521 Před 6 lety

    Well hello!

  • @metakumer1
    @metakumer1 Před 2 lety

    I have a severe case of canker on my two peaches as I did not expect the disease on my new trees...I overlooked it...I know: my fault...but it is what it is...what now? It is affected every single leaf and not here and there.

  • @masstrending5310
    @masstrending5310 Před 6 lety

    Hi am from India plz teach me

  • @reneejaurequi5808
    @reneejaurequi5808 Před rokem

    My peach tree overload with this virus. Nothing to do at this point?? Forgot to spray Nov Jan Feb preventive

  • @riot.9
    @riot.9 Před 6 lety

    Thank you, I thought my cherry tree is going to die. I'd BURN leaves though.

  • @riot.9
    @riot.9 Před 6 lety +1

    Thank you, I thought my cherry tree is going to die. I'd BURN it though.

  • @alexandrawhitelock6195
    @alexandrawhitelock6195 Před 2 měsíci

    How about you explain how to identify canker?

  • @Juan-mj3bm
    @Juan-mj3bm Před 2 lety

    Ooo I should have watched it first

  • @joshj.6135
    @joshj.6135 Před 6 lety +1

    So once the tree is infected will it always have canker?

  • @fionag8869
    @fionag8869 Před 3 lety

    The leaves on my peach tree r turning red and falling off, its not canker i dont think, theres no bumps its just the leaves turning red and the branches r very sparse, i sprayed it with copper so we will c

  • @mireyaherrera705
    @mireyaherrera705 Před 3 lety +2

    Do not just leave those leaves with spores on them on the ground. I can't believe this guy is actually saying it's not a big deal.

  • @meyou842
    @meyou842 Před 3 lety +1

    looks like peach leaf curl to me

  • @angeliqueroux3017
    @angeliqueroux3017 Před 2 lety

    Peach gum.... 🤔 I’m assuming the tree doesn't produce it where pruned? 🤔 How do I harvest peach gum without hurting and killing my tree 😅

  • @brianrorem3038
    @brianrorem3038 Před 6 lety +2

    I have a peach tree I think it's a Alberta peach. Some of the branches are developing like a knot in the branches and leaking sap clear sap how do I stop it

    • @seerofsorrow
      @seerofsorrow Před 4 lety

      pictures? And is there bug damage nearby?

  • @erdiaz13
    @erdiaz13 Před 6 lety +1

    So the fruit is fine? And what about split pits? How can this be prevented?

  • @suesk4828
    @suesk4828 Před 3 lety +1

    are ants ok on my peach tree... will ants hurt my peach tree?

  • @reneebrown2968
    @reneebrown2968 Před 3 lety

    Isn't copper organic? Canker killed my dwarf peach tree.

  • @josephgrossi1022
    @josephgrossi1022 Před 3 lety

    7

  • @zulmabontiffe487
    @zulmabontiffe487 Před 2 lety

    Enjoyed watching, but the background noise was very annoying

  • @dank6905
    @dank6905 Před 2 lety

    thats looks like curl leaf

  • @elrichoward4193
    @elrichoward4193 Před 6 lety

    Have you got your Grand Opening coordinated with your police department?

  • @ronfrancis10
    @ronfrancis10 Před 12 dny

    So I learnt that I can't do anything about it...?

  • @markstevenson9080
    @markstevenson9080 Před 2 lety

    Canker ruined my whole harvest on two trees.

  • @gabthechef3790
    @gabthechef3790 Před 5 měsíci

    Luke, I don’t think that you actually have all teh facts on this issue. Firstly: what you are showing is leaf curl and not canker, which attacks the branches. Secondly, untreated leaf curl can and will survive and will return next year. Thirdly: healthy trees indeed can drop off their curled leaves and grow new ones and thrive for the rest of the season, but it will not produce fruit, which is the whole point of a peach tree.

  • @lorenzoparedes2306
    @lorenzoparedes2306 Před 2 lety +1

    Too much talking before addressing the subject directly. Blessed be the brief.

  • @gaminawulfsdottir3253
    @gaminawulfsdottir3253 Před 2 lety

    "Canker" isn't a precise enough word to communicate what you're talking about.