The Adams 5-Valve Non-compensating euphonium
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- čas přidán 3. 02. 2023
- A quick demonstration of the Adams 5-Valve non-compensating euphonium. This is a fully-realized prototype instrument that is intended to compliment, not replace, current compensating euphoniums.
The open low register and multiple valve combinations enabled by the inclusion of the Gb fifth valve are just some of the special characteristics of this instrument.
Even if a musician doesn’t venture below the staff that often (but still wants a fully chromatic instrument) the shorter piston valves (when compared with a compensating valve extinguisher) can be appreciated with every swift passage.
As a bass trombonist who doubles on euphonium, I would love to give this a try.
Same my first thought was mmmmm bass trombone
We're gonna slowly work our way back to the French C tuba hehe
I'm taking a trip to Chicago in a couple months and there's like a 50-50 chance I'm going to go home with a French C. That quint valve and long half step are really appealing to me; I find the low range of my uncompensating horn pretty fun, but playing pinky and middle finger combos for B natural, and pulling slides for Eb and C is getting old.
That pedal C/Bb makes low regidster trills amazing!! I didn't even think about that!
Having shorter valves would be a dream come true for me.
It’s essentially a bass trombone valve setup
Oh yes! ;) I saw a cute Asian girl playing this thing on Instagram! 😃👍
Very interesting video. Thanks!
I’ve been trying to find a 5 valve, and finally I have reached it
Tuba player here! would love to get my hands on one of these!!
This is very cool.
I have to wonder why they didn’t just put two pistons in the left hand, but I’ll admit this is a really amazing concept and a big step for euphonium-kind! Now we need a 6th valve that’s an elongated half step like on a tuba…
In a word- ergonomics. Two pistons would require the player to support the weight of the instrument with two weaker fingers, and introduce a degree of tension between the two valve fingers. The thumb to finger pinching motion is more natural, and maintains the same hand support as a 4-valve instrument. The additional rotor does not require core dimensions of the 4-valve Sonic to be altered in any way. All bracing, tuning slides and valve placements are otherwise unaffected.
A 6th valve is unnecessary with this tuning, and wouldn’t serve a function on its own. This 5th valve serves independently on its own AND in combination, easing technical fast finger challenges, and opening up the low register. It’s not JUST for low range…
The French C system is a great option for 6 uncompensated valves on what is pretty much a euphonium. They have the normal 1st, 2nd, and 4th valves, with usually a 2 but sometimes 1.5 step 3rd valve, a long half or sometimes long whole 5th valve, and a 3.5 step 6th valve.
@@seth094978 if only it were in b flat
@@sovirtrussia376 Yeah if Courtois made a 6 valve Bb like that, I'd probably order one immediately.
I once modded a yep321 to have a 5th valve on the left hand with 4 in the right and it was a flat whole step for the 5th valve and it was 4th valve dependent but it got me all the notes and it was a lot of fun. I miss that horn. I also put a large shank receiver on it was pretty perfect for me but my larger bore compensating euph was fuller in sound to the player and I liked playing more so i kept that one. I miss it
Low C and B on a compensating euphonium are pretty sharp, like those an octave higher played using 13 and 123…
Makes it easy for bass trombone players to double on, and lighter valves are also an advantage, too…
Genius!
Anyone else catch The Rescuers Down Under excerpt?
The major 3rd for the 5th valve is an interesting choice, as opposed to the flat whole step.
i think its drawing from bass trombones, which have the same Gb/F/D(combined) setup
It's actually the Belgian 3rd valve tuning, and it has some distinct advantages. It's also a pretty common fifth valve tuning on older tubas.
Hey Matt. Wondering if you considered a whole step trill (up) valve. It would be possible to hit the low C and B using that valve. Either way, I find myself wanting something like this more and more
Muito bom, será que teria no Brasil também?
I saw this a while ago on Facebook, nice to see a play test of it. Is it a custom order from a customer, or something that Adams plans on releasing to the public?
Currently available for special order (no custom options) but with enough demand we’ll see if some instruments will get made to send out to dealers or trade shows for play testing.
The horn in this video is the first prototype (only one on Earth when I recorded this)
That valve throw is very similar to a rotary Kaiser Baritone eh?
Wondering would this work for the baritone instead of the 4 valve compensating baritone?
In theory, sure, but baritones don’t generally hang out in that low register at the volumes where this is most beneficial.
For my baritones I’ve got a 3-valve compensating Besson, and a 4-valve non-comp. I found the 4-valve compensating Besson Prestige baritone to be prohibitively stuffy down in the low euphonium range.
What was that little lick you played when showing the higher register?
czcams.com/video/gj043f05C1U/video.html @1:38
how's the intonation when using the extra valve compared to a compensating euphonium, especially in the low register?
Just as “good”, when you consider that a compensating euphonium (or ANY valved brass) is really only “in tune” in one or two keys.
There’s a degree of lipping to be done, but the openness of the low register and multiple fingering options for most notes means you’ll be close enough for government (Marine Band) work.
I practiced an octave up with the low fingerings to get a good feel for it, and found more opportunities in and above the staff for less awkward cross-fingerings.
@@matts.1395 Thanks.
Do you know the estimated price range for this?
MSRP should be roughly midway between the 4-valve Adams Sonic and and the Adams E-1.
This is solving a problem that doesn’t exist.
Many many orchestral tuba players buy 5 valve non-compensating instruments, because compensation systems really do cause problems in the low range, harm the timbre of instruments, and don't always even provide particularly good tuning on low B and C.
Larry Minick did this for me 45 years ago. Nothing new here. Old news.
Yeah tubas have been available with 5 valves since 1835! It's been standard on CC and F for generations now.
A 4 valve non compensating euphonium can go much lower than low D, it's the player and the mouthpiece.
Absolutely a 4-valve can keep going lower into the pedal range. Down to a Db without using false-tones. This fills in the range between the Db and pedal Bb, and then adds a few notes (3) at the bottom of the pedal range. That’s all academic though. When it comes down to it, this is a 4-valve non-compensating euphonium with an extra major-third to use when and wherever you like. There are no real benefits sound/response wise over a 4-valve, with the exception of adding C and B.
The major third becomes a minor-third when used in conjunction with the 4th valve.
The 5th valve really comes into its own with technical passages and cross-fingerings.
A compensating euphonium will have all the same notes, but will have a significant increase in backpressure whenever more than a few valves are used in combination with 4th.
In addition, pulling the 3rd valve to 2 full steps can be beneficial in that range. That gives a very useful 1-2-3-4 low C, though Db must be played 2-3-4, very sharp, instead of 1-3-4 with the normal 3rd valve length. With a 4 on the top system you can get good at rapidly pulling and pushing the 1st valve slide while playing, giving better options for low Eb, Db, and C than this system allows. Honestly the 2 step 5th is a really weird option; nearly all tubas these days use a long step 5th since it is way more versatile.
@@seth094978 This horn has no aspirations of being a tuba. The two-step tuning comes from the bass-trombone independent Gb valve, and works the same. (I’m unaware of a use for the flat while-step valve on a tuba on its own…) This design makes sense to me as someone who plays bass trombone and has performed professionally on euphonium for 26+ years. I might like tuba-tuning, but like I said, this tuning makes sense to me (and several of my euphonium-playing friends) No need for slide-pulling at all…
this seems like a complete waste of money, to be honest... Bass troms have two valves to get the full range, euphs can already do that with the fourth valve.
They cannot without a compensation system. I can't play a low B on my Yamaha, and low C requires a significant pull of the 1st or 3rd valve slide. The choice to use a 2 step 5th valve instead of a step and a quarter valve is indeed dumb, but having 5 valves is a great option.
@@seth094978 So he's intentionally made his instrument worse, just to make this five-valved setup?
@@explodingsausage6576 I wouldn't say a non-compensating system is necessarily worse. The use of a compensation system significantly adds to the resistance in the low register and makes the tone quite muffled. Some people, such as myself, will not accept that compromise and would rather deal with a more complicated fingering system and tuning quirks. The French used exclusively non-compensating instruments for over a hundred years, well after the Blaikley system was invented, because they saw significant value in an easy blowing low register. American tubas today are still mostly uncompensated, often with five valves, because players will not accept the weight, tone, and resistance compromises inherent to the British system.
Will it go into production any time soon? I like to give it a go, big bucks $$$$$$??????........
Hi Mike- This horn is currently available for special order, though with a commensurate lead-time.
I do hope that at some point soon local retailers may get samples for people to try before ordering (or buying the one in the store!). They can then decide if this instrument is the one best suited for expressing their music voice.
Pricing as of 14 Feb 2023 is approximately $6000 USD. (A bit less than halfway between the 4-valve Sonic, and the Adams E-1 compensating euphonium.