Vital's Enduro MTB Test Session - Six Bikes and a Lot of Rocks
Vložit
- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- Welcome to our 2021 Enduro Test Sessions!
We headed to Reno, NV to put six long-travel bikes to the test. Our crew of testers logged a lot of miles and a ton of vert to sort out the strengths and weaknesses of these bikes. In the end, we surprised them with a question - If you could, which bike would you take home?
Get our full review, live on our site now - www.vitalmtb.com/features/Vit...
#MTB #mountainbike #enduro
Timestamps
0:00 - Introduction
2:27 - Guerrilla Gravity Gnarvana, Rally Like Barelli Build
8:25 - Transition Spire, Carbon GX
13:14 - Pivot Firebird Pro XT/XTR Coil
19:17 - Devinci Spartan HP GX 12S
24:22 - Orbea Rallon LTD - Mixed wheel
29:01 - Banshee Titan - Mixed wheel
34:06 - What bike would you take home? - Sport
Did an awesome job thanks for showing. Would have loved to see a Capra and Enduro in the mix.
Awesome to see some lesser known brands like Banshee. That raw metal frame looks so sick!
we need more review of these .. Love it 👍🏻
great comparison and nice video!
I've got the Gnarvana with a Fox 38 up front and the PUSH elven six, with I-9 wheels. The bike is amazing!! For it's travel it actually climbs pretty good, better than you'd expect and of course on the down hill's and chunk, it's amazing. Colorado trails ALWAYS have climbs involved, it can do both.
I'm looking at getting either a Canyon or GG. Just started looking at the GG
@@coryhill3805 Good luck man, you can't go wrong with the GG.
Good luck trying to buy any of these bikes in the near future. Great video!!
Right now Guerilla has 4-6 week lead times, and generally orbea has stock to to their $$$ tag
@@Thoromian I live in Ireland and it's almost impossible to get anything at the moment...the lead time is usually over 12months, even for the high €€€ bikes!!
GG is getting bikes out in 4-6 weeks, which is one of the fastest in the industry at the moment.
@@TheDiablosix6six Strap some 29er wheels on a sheep, and giver hell!!!!
Waiting for my spire, can't wait!
What do you think about it now?
@@LastAphelion absolutely love it, without a doubt the best bike I've owned. Somehow playful enough for bike park whilst still being able to eat whatever alpine backcountry nastiness I can throw at it.
Nice review! This ski resort is five minutes from my house and in my backyard. Stoked you guys did this here.
Thanks for shredding with us!
Heck yeah! We loved our time in Reno!
Look at the Fox 38 on the Firebird vs the Spartan. Firebird's fork was bottomed out most of the time on video; Spartan's fork spent most of it's time in the mid-stroke. Bad suspension setup a reason some didn't like the Firebird?
All of the riders' setups are in our full review on our website. Four of the six bikes tested had a FOX 38 forks, they all had the same number of volume spacers and we used the FOX recommended settings for setup on all bikes. Those settings, which we ran on the Pivot, were actually 5psi FIRMER than what Pivot recommends in their Firebird setup guide.
@@vitalmtb I'm not going to debate probabilities with you homie. I have eyes. My observation also agrees with their statements about the bike bouncing off line. Yeah, it bounces off line because they're riding the bottom out bumper.
@@justinwbohner Maybe the factory settings were less progressive (more linear rear end, less tokens in the fork, steeper HTA), or the recommended settings are not as well-suited. You can't fine-tune ALL these things for every test-rider, I personally spent days for my suspension setup and I am still doing it as my riding progresses.
Have to agree with Justin - the suspension on the Firebird needs to be played with a little, once dialed and not bottoming out as easily it is one of the most stable and capable bikes I have ever ridden.
Vital was spot on ! The Firebird sucks
Great review, nice job. Some interesting bikes in the mix. Evil Wreckoning/Insurgent, Nukeproof Giga/Mega compete in this group for me too... lots of good bikes to compare.
Timestamps
0:00 - Introduction
2:27 - Guerrilla Gravity Gnarvana, Rally Like Barelli Build
8:25 - Transition Spire, Carbon GX
13:14 - Pivot Firebird Pro XT/XTR Coil
19:17 - Devinci Spartan HP GX 12S
24:22 - Orbea Rallon LTD - Mixed wheel
29:01 - Banshee Titan - Mixed wheel
34:06 - What bike would you take home?
Get our full review, live on our site now - www.vitalmtb.com/features/Vit...
Are you guys still planning to restock the Endurocell water bottle?
@Vital
You diagrams show Headtube Angle and Reach on the Gorilla Gravity are wrong.
When discussing the reach you are showing effective top tube length.
But your heat tube is just completely wrong. Painful to watch.
Excellent reviews as always
Good test !!! I like all !! 😁
😂 I saw you guys on the way back from Utah with all the bikes in the back of a pickup truck lolllll
Guerrilla has great name :D
but even I didn't watch whole video I would take that Transition Spire in a second, its a monster.
The Spire is SO good!
A lot of stacking going on at the Firebird Fork 👀
Team pivot 👍 up 🔥
The review of the firebird was all over the place.
I got the impression they never really understood the bike. The DW link is key to Pivot bikes. I have always felt that for long travel, the DW link does not give the feeling of being down in the bike, so it’s only natural that they would bring up the point of being on the bike rather than in the bike. But that’s not necessarily bad. The Firebird makes you test your skills better and makes you a better rider, you’re not just plowing over stuff, you get to finesse and experiment. You’re more of a pilot, not a passenger. It’s a much more active ride than other bikes in its category…
"all over the place" seemed to be the consensus on the Firebird haha, apparently it won't hold a line in steeps to save its life.
@@BikeIntelligencer have demoed the last firebird, with a 36 factory. i was blown away by that bike, set personal records on my hometrails after sitting on it for 20 minutes... shame it costs 4x the cash of my polygon, but some day ill have the money and by that day i´ll demo it again and against others, but i feel like it´s gonna be the bird...
Thank you everyone for your comments and feedback on our latest Test Session! We want to address a few key items in one space so that everyone knows their voice was heard.
Graphics - Again, thank you very much for the feedback here. The geometry numbers on screen are correct. We very much understand now that our layout was a bit confusing and not the best representation for the angles and measurements. We will get those dialed in on the next round.
Pivot Firebird - Yes, our testers had different feedback on this bike and some struggled more than others. There were some universal points of strengths and weaknesses. This was not the only bike of contention but does seem to be one that people are focused on.
1 - Our setup was based on FOX recommendations. In consulting with the Pivot setup guide, our testers ran about 5-7psi more than recommended. This would make for a stiffer fork, not softer, per viewers comments. All of these numbers are reported on the site review. www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Pivot/Firebird-Pro-XT-XTR-Coil-with-Alloy-Wheels,34675#product-reviews/4069/expand
2 - We reached out to Pivot and are working with them to get wider bars (like what customers get) and a shorter stem to reassess the Firebird's trail manners. This revisit will take place on the same trails as the initial test.
3 - There is a lot of focus on the negative. We still stand by saying this is a very fast bike and will motor in the terrain that most riders encounter most of the time. We criticized every bike in some aspect. That is part of a comparison review, to compare and contrast how different brands stack up. Every brand here deserves props for submitting a bike to this type of test.
That's cool that you're doing a re-test. I don't think you should discount the possibility that something was wrong with the fork.
When you guys come back to Reno hit Tyrolean DH it’s only about 5 miles up the road from sky tavern. It’s way longer and more fun than the sky tavern trails and has a bike park style jump line at the top with lots of high speed chunk and natural side hits on the bottom half.
"The geometry numbers on screen are correct." - Tell me again how you measure head tube angles - 4:31
@@nathanwforrest the NUMBERS are correct, the visual representation (almost certainly done by someone else) is the thing that’s not correct.
Thanks for the quality reviews!
I found the animation for reach confusing. I think it should be horizontal measurement from bb to top tube, not saddle to top tube
Agreed reach is a 90° angle from bb to middle of head tube
True, reach is not supposed to apply to seated rider's position
why do you show most of the angles and dimensions at the wrong place? HTA is not between fork and downtube, reach is not the top-tube length and so on
Next to that: very informative (as always)
Someone must’ve mentioned this already. Medium Firebirds come with 780mm bars. Not 760mm! Spec mistake which could’ve easily been fixed by Pivot if you guys checked.
Phoenix Team Low Rise Carbon - 760mm (XS), 780mm (SM-LG), 800mm (XL)
Other than that. Awesome video🤘🏼
The medium has a wheelbase of 1230 which sounds really long and the reach and stack is a lot longer than last year's SM. The small has good numbers but the top tube is really short even for a small.
Yeah, these mediums have a longer wheelbase than a size large Ripmo, which is the gold standard of "do it all enduro-ish bike"
I don't feel like it was fair to change out the damper on the Spartan. The product managers should be aware of the ride characteristics they want to achieve with the bike and spec it accordingly. In this case the XT 12s has a Performance Elite, so that would have been a more appropriate choice. If this wasn't available then the cost of changing the damper has to also be included in the listed price of the bike, so as not to mislead customers. Otherwise, a good review all-round. Thanks guys!
It seems like the testers might have had some set up issues with the Firebird? In one clip it looked like the fork was bouncing all over the place. I would also guess that rider weights might have been pretty different between testers. Did you swap spring weights on the coil between riders? Could be one explanation for the varying feedback.
You can get the complete setup details on our website, link to the review is in the description. But to answer your question here, yes, absolutely every bike in this test was set up for that individual rider.
Maybe I'm missing something but the illustration of head tube angle wasn't how I pictured it? I thought that the centre/apex of the angle was located at the centre of the hub, and measures the fork leg against the horizontal (floor) plane? atleast that's how I pictured it in my head but happy to be wrong...
Orbea 👍✌️🤗
Gonna have to go with the Good Game
If I were to review my bike after only a week of riding it, I’d hate it. For me, bike set up takes time to dial in fit, suspension l, etc… after a month, I got it dialed and the bike is amazing.
What length fork were you running on the Banshee? Thanks
Can you test the Cube Stereo 170 (Stereo ONE77 PRO) please??
wonder who made the geometry overlap🤣
The new Firebird is a more planted and less poppy bike, especially with the coil so some feedback in that review make sense but yes a revisited review with a 780 bar and more air in that fork would def make in an apple to apple comparison :)
I'm really curious how the firebird is. I'm not seeing many reviews on it
Please review the Canfield lithium
About the Firebird, a wider bar would not put you in a stronger position. Try doing pushups at 750 mm vs 800 mm. Also wider bars would put your weight further forward. But watching the vid, it looks like the fork is riding low, compressed.
I'd like to know how they compare some of the older bikes like the SB150.
I went for the transition but the Mullet version the Patrol. And converted it to 170-170 for 80$ such a sweet playful ride.
How do you like the mullet Patrol? Looks like it should be very playful, but still capable of replacing your trail bike too.
@@mrvwbug4423 love it. Bb is a little low for some trails I ride. Mostly I ride horse and hiking trails(that’s all I have) so their deep and I can hit my pedals which I didn’t on my trail bike. Worth the switch for me though.
@@307.William I ride a Ripmo, so am very familiar with a super low BB haha, bash guard gets plenty of use.
Hi guys!! I really need your advice!!! Pls! hahaha, what would you choose between a Rallon M-Team 2023 full price or a Pivot Firebird 2022 half price???!!!! I haven't ridden any of them and I'm buying blind here.....any help would be much appreciated!!! Txs!!
Wow!
phenomenal fucking video
There was no mention of how the Spire climbed. Did I miss it?
Climbs great for a 170mm. Although long it is pretty efficient for a big enduro rig
No Evil Wreckoning or Insurgent V3? I'm disappointed.
Pivot ❤
Yo did you guys have a weight on thr spire?
You guys are displaying head tube angles incorrectly. It's the angle of the head tube from the horizontal.
You’ve got to set the firebird up right, I’ve had mine long enough to set it up properly, I have the sag much softer than I thought I needed which helped me feel more in the bike and helped the bike settle in rougher sections and I have 35, 780mm bars and stem and I don’t experience any of the issue you pointed out
@@MrSupermugen just saying
you can definately see, that the firebirds fork is either set up wrong or not working properly. its bottoming out constantly and not coming back up, while the spartans fork stays in the midstroke most of the time and is coming back up faster
@@MrSupermugen Don’t be mad just because you can’t afford one 👍🏻
@@MrSupermugen Firstly, I doubt that. But if that’s true, then why rag on someone for buying a bike “for the name”? Plus, he’s right - their bike absolutely wasn’t spec’d or set up correctly.
Bro you shouldn’t have to buy a fucking $8000 bike and then change everything on it to fucking feel good are you fucking kidding me listen to what you’re saying
I’m trying to decide between the Nukeproof Giga and the Devinci Spartan. Any recommendations?
We had the Mega 290c and currently on Spartan HP. Little different comparison but both great bikes.
Pivot is the b e s t !
Damn, I feel bad for Pivot. The suspension on the Firebird seemed to bet very soft in some clips, which is probably what led to some not liking it. From other tests I've watched/read, they said it was an absolute downhill monster.
pivot suspension was set up firmer than FOX recommended settings. FOX recommended are even firmer than what pivot recommends. tldr - it was setup appropriately if not on the firm side.
@@vitalmtb Very odd. Maybe it was something to do with the shock pushing weight onto the front wheel? It also might be an issue with the fork itself. Whatever the case something was definitely wrong there
Now the next question, how does this bunch compare to some of the other top bikes like the Specialized Enduro, Rocky Mountain Altitude and SB150?
our rocky altitude test - czcams.com/video/nFrnjIZar-A/video.html
our yeti SB150 test - czcams.com/video/iFIunD9uYjg/video.html
What are Waxxis tires? 3:54
firebird seems to be a serious enduro race bike, ews enduro riders have very different needs than the average rider, this may be why they describe it as being hard to keep on line, in the hands of the best; twitchy enough to quickly find new lines on tracks that are fresh to the eye. hence its feeling of disobedient to those who are inexperienced to this kind of riding. food for thought
GD stuff, request - do same test with same bikes comparing low end build vs high end build of the same bike
In times when bikes are not in such short supply, we'd love to. The broad scope of builds in this test is a reflection of what we could actually get. Cheers for the input!
The 38 on the Pivot appeared to run super far into its travel. Maybe that might help to explain…
760mm bars
Awesome review. Good to know that the new Rallon can handle the rough and fast stuff. Which bike do you get into a manual the easiest?
The shorter the chainstay, the easier it is to manual. That means on paper, the firebird or the spartan will be the easiest but the weight of the front end, the setup of the suspension, and the wheel setup you use will all affect the manuability of the bike.
Also Spartan is a high pivot.
I was almost set to put a order on the new Bronson MX, but you guys have me thinking with the Rallon MX? How do they compare if it were my only MTB? I do have gravel bike that I take on greens. So one MTB from blues to bike park.
I wouldn't let a single online review deter you. Hard to get a bad bike nowadays, and the Bronson is obviously a great one, plus the customer service and warranty of Santa Cruz ... It's splitting hairs and personal opinion with most these reviews.
@@topspot4834 what you say is all true. But stock builds the Rallon has better parts that align to my preference. I'm still holding out hope I can a frame only for Bronson in my size and color. But not looking good right now.
Get the bronson no company make quality carbon like santa... the frame is legit 100 times stronger over couple of years. Cheers ✌🏼
@@anaamaral179 100x stronger. Seriously where you guys pull that from. I'm 145lbs, SC frames are overbuilt for me. They are not way better than others like the Ibis I currently own. I have already test rode the Bronson MX and it's still my top choice, mainly because the Rallon is a bit more bike than I need and I haven't tested it yet. I'm just going to wait for frame only and if the wait is too long then stock Rallon would be fine for me.
770 would be the narrowest anyone would run on your team? 👀
oh look the heavy bike has good ride characteristics
What , no Giant Reign ?
omg, just all picked up rallon...
Please test the yt capra
Is it just me, but are those graphics you do for the reach and head tube angle on each bike wrong?
Like the reach is measuring from the seat, instead of vertically above the crank.
And the head tube angle is measuring the angle of the fork to the down tube instead of to horizontal?
Yep, I noticed that too. Also the seat tube angle was not drawn to horizontal, but to rear axle.
I believe you're confusing reach and top tube length. Reach is measured from a vertical line where the crank spindle sits to the bars. Top tube length would be the distance from the seat tube to head tube.
You are also incorrect about the head angle measurement. If head angles were measured in that way, it would be a significantly less useful measurement, as you would also need to take into account the angle of the downtube relative to the horizontal axis.
I hope this helps clear things up!
Same, re: head tube angle
Yep. Head angle graphic is shown wrong in the videos.
On the GG it's shown as the angle between the steerer and an imaginary line from the top of the steerer to the BB. lol
Should just be horizontal-to-steerer axis.
1257mm in Transition Spyre... That's almost the same as XL downcuntry bike - Transition Spur, or NS Bikes Synonym TR for the record, having 120mm travel. Some insanely long and slack stuff there from Transition
The angle/measurements info-graphic overlays in the video are really off/misleading (headtube angle isn't measured from the down tube, and reach isn't effective top tube length).
I thought the Firebird would be the most versatile of all, but you proved me wrong! So, Orbea?
how much did the transition weigh in ??
Damn, 157 mm wheelbase.
They displayed all the reach and head angle dimensions wrong. That bother anyone else?
ikr
Cotic RocketMax
The head angle graphic 🤷♂️
I like how you told folks to just "grab a bike". Maybe duct tape the brand next time and call em "Bike #1, Bike#2" and make it a "blind" test
No trek slash?
Finally someone throws a bit of criticism on firebird. Got actually quite the same feelings when trying the new fb. I own the old one and it feels much better
Lol
The head angle graphic doesn’t make sense
I think you are confusing people with the lines when you are showing geo…? Reach number but line showing top tube, head-angle lines are really strange? Not everyone understands the numbers.
I think the person who added the graphics didn’t know how the angles are measured. There are other mistakes too, with measurements. Maybe too tight a deadline?
Speak for yourself boys. The measurements were spot on. You neglected the wheelbase and chainstay lines that are undeniably simple and correct. As for the “reach,” that is a horizontal line that crosses the vertical axis between the bottom bracket and headset - which is what they showed. “Reach” is not seat to handlebars or whatever you think it is. Head angle? They were right again. Not sure what to tell you guys…
😎
So much more excited to see these bikes than the Pinkbike enduro test
How tall are the testers?
Most if them are about 5'8 or 5'9
Didn't know Gerard Butler rides MTB!
So many to choose and it feels like every year there is more… I get to the point that you just have to choose one and enjoy it… simply cus you can’t test any bike yourself and stats are just stats
$9000, I will go get 2 of them.
At those bargain basement prices, why not one of each bike?
25:02 - guys, I don’t think tertiary means what you think it does… 😂 Just use words you would normally use in conversation, then this kind of thing doesn’t happen 👍🏻
5:30 - it feels so much bigger than it is 😫
that's what she said
No Norco Range?
Its a pretty big bike. I know somebody who has one and its pretty much a DH bike with the ability to pedal. Pinkbike did a review on it if you haven't seen it already: czcams.com/video/ceLL-_Uq7iI/video.html
We've tested the Range and really liked what it had to offer: www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Norco/Range-C1,34271
Someone needs to educate whomever does the graphics overlay in the editing on how bike geometry is measured. Not everyone watching will know the correct way that these dimensions should be measured.
Yeah seriously Cathro's how to bike also measures his legs flat on the screen no matter which way he faces like????
Mostly 6k bikes and then a 9k bike. I wish you had the option to request their lower end bike that would be closer in price to the other ones. Overall great video.
Only 3 of the 6 were in the $6k range. There was also a $7k and $7.8k bike in there. We also addressed this topic head-on in the video. We do agree, for the sake of argument alone, we would have liked to have the next step down but are 100% confident we would have arrived at the same conclusion.
Love the reviews, but some weird "insights"
"I expected this bike to be a slug"...despite knowing that the design updates were the result from direct feedback from their EWS racers...not sure that's a logical conclusion
For what I see in the video you have a firebird with a bad set up. Why it have a 760 mm bar when only the xs comes with that length, that make sense for the people that use that sice. Also in the video it looks that the fork was bottomed out a lot more than other fox 38 in the same video, also it connects very well with the problem that the bike present in the video. I don´t believe that Vital MTB make that in a bad way, maybe is somthing wrong on the fork in the internals. But is also true that it is very likly to be to soft and that could explain why the riders fiele that they cant mantain it in the line and why it fell like a XC.
please read our pinned comment at the top, it addresses bar width and stem length (sent to us by Pivot, not our request) as well as FOX 38 pressure (our PSI based on FOX recommendations was MORE than what pivot may recommend for this bike)
@@vitalmtb I read now the pinned comment and i would love to see a video in the future changing that set ups so evryone could be happy. The other thing is about that suspencion. I belive in your comment and its okay that you where 5-7 psi up but its very strange because 5-7 its a lot in a fork and in the video the fork was bottomed out much more than other similar bikes. So it makes all very weird. So that if you were have planning to make a future video on that i would watch it.
@@vitalmtb who gives a darn what's recommended if the fork's bottoming out? I mean, open your eyes.. it should be set up specifically for each person according to their preferences.. cmon, man.. im a non-racer nobody. I know this stuff. so do you.
If the fork is bottoming out that much... the set up is not right. There is no way in fkn heaven. If the fork is asking for more air just put more air and set it up right. It´s not that difficult
Is it just me or does it seem like, the heavier the bike the better rear suspension performs?;) Physics tell me that it should be that way.
Heard somewhere that heavier frame and lighter wheels can make suspension feel realy good, and i can confirm that my Ninja FR does just that.
Ebike suspension usually performs very well and is very plush for this exact reason
@@somerandomdave1228 might have been me who said that. I always push that idea around:-D Czechmate.
You could also just gain a bunch of weight!
Sprung vs. unsprung relation is what matters, so if the weight is in the main triangle it helps
Hard to put much faith in a review that doesn't understand how head tube angles are measured - 4:31 and several other times
Not a single session. Hoping to see 6 different sessions being test next time
I love the hilariously incorrect angle animations when they go over the specs. Great vid though
Seems like Specialized Enduro has faded into the background on all 2021-2022 bike tests. Why? Just because there wasn't an update is my guess. Can't imagine the geo is irrelevant nor the performance.
this for me, doesnt seem like a valid test, cuz at least with the fire bird, the fork and shock looked way too soft, and the firebirds review on this channel is way different to everything else i've heard.
to address vitals response to the feedback they got alof of, numbers dont matter when it comes to suspension, different linkages will need different pressured, so maybe actualley have 250-30 sag in the fork so please don't just go off the recomended psi.
one more thing i would like to address, is they only did a couple laps, if you did more laps on each ike or spent like a week or 2 on each bike, then maybe you might actualley get used to hte bike and not just go off first impressions, cuz it wouldbe stupid to judge the bike off just a couple laps
The Pivot was set up liken ENDURO bike, not like an ALL MOUNTAIN trail bike. Enduro is a racing format, where the top riders tend to ride stiffer for speed and to take the big sends at said speed. The Pivot is set up to race, not slam out party laps. It's not for me, but that's its pedigree and I feel like the nuance between Enduro and All Mountain is always lost.
Two of our testers formerly raced professional enduro, super-d and downhill. The other two, amateur. Our team knows a bit about race pedigree. Perhaps that is why we suggested the Firebird as a race bike...
Got actually quite the same feelings when trying the new fb. I own the old one and it feels much better
@@MrSupermugen I deff like my 2021 firebird bird more than 2022 version. When I demoed the new one I felt like the bike was too long with not enough travel both front and rear
@@MrSupermugen. I own the old one and the new 2022, the 22 is better in almost every way. It feels more playful but still fast, and Pedals better. 2019 xl to 2022 xl. This guy is smoking crack.
You need to change that head tube angle graphics. It's straight up misleading and wrong.
the transition is a geometron from wish
Hey Orbea? Stumpy called.............
Didn't both orbea and specialized do the same frame design in 2018 (at the same time)?
Orbea released the single sided strut design before the stumpy did. However the demo8 beat the orbea by a couple of years.
@@trugearreviewmtb2226 Thank you for being nice, my bad. I thought this was an all new bike. I stand corrected.