Can A 90s CART Car Beat A Current INDYCAR?
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- Past meets the present!
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The physics of some models may have been modified to replicate real-life performance as close as possible.
#IndyCar #Indy #CART
̶P̶r̶e̶d̶e̶c̶e̶s̶o̶r̶ 😅
More like safer car
successor* 😉
it's all good words are hard 🤣
-you know you can just put dashes at the beginning and end of your comment-
-dam I didn’t know that-
Successor*
A car that has 200hp less and weighs more lost? No way! But honestly it’s crazy to see just how fast those ChampCars were back in the day
Aero could change that, but not enough difference obviously
@@laccelo if they’d give the current cars more power I think we would see a much better comparison between them. I thought there was talks about giving the cars like 800hp or something like that. Upping the power of the current powerplant
In case of Indy car, yes. But if you look at the BMW M12 cars back from 1980s with 1300hp and a modern f1 car which is less power and more weight, no chance the older cars would win
very track dependent, Road America has 3 massive straight, place like Long Beach or Mid-Ohio the newer cars have better lap time
F1 cars today will kick their lighter, more powerful predecessors’ asses.
CART - Best Ever Racing Series
Yet the had terrible management.
I thought this was a case of a rose tinted view of the past... But no.
1999 pole position time - 1:40.206
2022 pole position time - 1:44.865
Quite shocked by that.
The CART cars were not only faster but sounds better too.
The power difference between the cars was around 300bhp between the two. Also the 1999 car had more power in qualifying trim do to adjustable turbo settings. The tires are also around twice as big, so with all that considered, we are lucky to have the times that close on a track with 3 1-mile 'straights' like Road America.
Old CART cars were the greatest open wheel series ever. Just the racing quality alone destroys all eras of F1 combined. Tiny margins in qualifying and races. Beautiful cars. Amazing engine sounds. Insane top speeds
@@R9naldo The only problem is that they never really raced outside the Americas.
@@R9naldo no f1 is 100% better
the early 2000s are peak motorsports era
True
True the Dr Gas X pipe boom tube sounds of nascar and iroc back then were sexy as hell.
Nah the 80s, Group B, Group C, F1, etc
1980s*
mid 80s or early 90s.
the old cart cars are closest any racing series got to formula 1. f1 cars of the time were faster but it was closer than any cars before or since.
The old trans-am were even a bigger thing than F1 back in the day, group C as well was considered a big treath to F1. The latter Bernie made a rule that they only could use engines wich were also active in F1, wich was the beginning of the end.
@@stuntslikeeveryday Don't you mean CanAm cars? Trans-Am were like pony cars
@@Starfire_Storm Indeed... No idea how I came up with trans am 😑
@@stuntslikeeveryday You can go back to edit your comment, just click on the 3 dots to the right of the comment and select 'edit.'
@@bloqk16 My intellect is too low to be able to proces such a task.
90s CART was SOOOOOOO GOOD! I was pretty bummed when it went away. Super competitive, high horsepower, high speed, tons of passing…it was just about perfect.
Watching CART and F1 in this era was a real treat. I didn’t realize how spoiled I was at the time. Modern Indy cars are not nearly as exciting; same for F1.
Yeah I liked watching more than F1, the F1 races were boring because they were spaced out so much.
@@mattving61 yeah, I can't knock you at all for saying that. In CART, it was so common to see someone win from a 3rd row starting position...or even further back. I loved that! Before an F1 race even starts I can already guess who the winner will be a majority of the time, particularly since one car seems to be so dominant.
@@mattving61 that would happen in circuit racing in general. That's kind of the point if you ask me.
Looks: CART
Speed: CART
Engine: CART
Sound: CART
Aero: Indycar
Racing quality: CART
Incredible
Thanks Tony George for screwing up what was on its way to becoming the worlds favorite open wheel series. 😮💨
But there wasn't enough ovals or American drivers thinks that modern Indycar are full of 😒
Crapwagons
Tony George tried to save it and almost did.
This proves that Driven was a masterpiece lmao
Your god damn right.
I was waiting to hear Joe start humming 😭
Hell yeah
I was in that movie
@@badlt5897 really?
The look of these cars was so much better... 😍
That era of CART was Peak IndyCar. Those cars were monsters
90's Champ Car was the best open wheel racing of all time in the US. Reynard-Honda, Penske-Ilmor, Lola-Ilmor, Lola-Ford...all great cars.
Dan Gurney Eagle
Those champ cars where something special the era of Andretti, Unser , zenardi, Montoya. They would kick the asses of indycar of today
Love the Target car. I believe 99 was Juan Montoya’s rookie year in CART. I know those veterans hated seeing that rookie red light in front of them. Miss those days
Cart was too good to continue, it was crushed by it's own success as the top teams were building/buying 4 different specs of car per year. But the cars were downright elemental, Nigel Mansell went from the Williams FW14B to a Lola Lola T93/00 saying the Indy car was a much better "drivers car" than the F1 Car. Senna tested a Penske and pretty much said the same, as did Jacques Villeneuve.
CART was ruined by that egomaniac Tony George.
Agreed Cart offered all the tracks in the late 90's. I could be at an oval and 4 weeks later at street course. To my mind the best racing I have seen or will ever with exception perhaps of seeing Alonso in that 2005 Renault.
Yes, those cars were close to 400km/hr
Should do also mid 2000 Indy cars, before the modern redesign
IndyCar has become stagnant. Racing a 12 year-old chassis and basically spec engines.
Not only faster, but much better looking and most importantly they sounded way better than the anemic drone of today's cars
Alt title: Can a 90's CART Slaughter a Current Indycar
The CART cars were almost as fast as F1 cars of that era.
I'm not sure if it would sound cliché or not, but what about that same idea for both NASCAR and F1. For NASCAR, how about the 1995 champion car (Jeff Gordon) vs the 2022 champion car (Joey Logano). Then for F1 either at this track or somewhere like Silverstone, the '96 champion car (Damon Hill/ Williams) vs 2022 champion car (Verstappen/ Red Bull).
2022 car for f1 would destroy, not even close
97 F1 cars were already several seconds quicker than the 96 cars.
good idea
Id love for them to do an all bells and whistles F1 car, no rules, max engine output, full aero package, no expenses spared.
@@Glenn7719 true like the 919 evo, would be cool to see
I dont mind Indycar being slower these days, the racing is still excellent and close, this is the most important thing.
Couldn't agree more. If only they went to more superspeedways: Michigan, Kansas, Chicagoland, Pocono...
@@THEWINDTUNNEL I dont want them to black-out
@@THEWINDTUNNEL I miss going to Pocono for Indycar so bad.
@@THEWINDTUNNEL If only people went to those tracks to watch them, last time IndyCar went to Fontana in the early 2010's the stands were empty.
As much as I want them back at Kansas Speedway, I don't see them getting a spot there along with Iowa to the NW and Gateway to the East.
the 1996-2000 cars were next level.
I miss the 90's and era of CART. The competition was great. Top tier drivers like Zanardi, G. Moore, Montoya, Andretti, Tracy, the list goes on. I'm all for the safety and technology we have nowadays for drivers. I myself was a fan of Greg Moore at the age of 13 back in '99. Have to admit I miss the sound of those Benz, Toyota, and Honda powered engines
Can’t forgot Villanueve (pardon the misspelling)
Michael Andretti > everyone else
Fight me
Yup Indycar CART from about 1986 - 1996 was some of the best racing in the world and more exciting with more passing than F1. Even Nigel Mansell and Emerson Fittipaldi were driving in PPG CART at the time.
@@robthames5065 Michael flopped hard in F1. Can't say the same for Greg though. He could have lived to see the F1 scene...
These Reynard chassis was the most beautiful formula car i ever seen. Very nostalgic video.
Greetings from Brasil
How about the Lola?
Another aspect that made the CART cars of the 1990s different from INDYCAR was with shifting.
As shown with the in-car cam, INDYCAR used a paddle shifter on the steering wheel.
CART car, though not shown, used a floor mounted sequential stick shift.
I think they had that stick shift (IndyCar) until like 2010 or something
@@WildWildWeasel until 2007
It was not sequential, it was H pattern
@@redwolf1647 To quote from Wikipedia about manual transmissions:
"The first modern sequential manual gearbox with a manual shift lever was used in the 1990 Peugeot 905 Group C sports car, followed by the Ferrari 333 SP LMP racecar and *CART Champ Cars/Indycars in 1994 and 1996"*
A bit more research can come up with in-car cams from the 1990s CART/Indy Car races that shows sequential shifters being used. When those videos are found, I can send you links to such videos to corroborate the Wikipedia info.
@@redwolf1647 No H pattern. Moved up for upshift, and down for downshift. Up down movement only.
No surprise there. Those mid-90s turbo V8 Champ cars were monsters.
Late 90sEarly 2000s CART is as good as it gets
I would love to see on iRacing an US Open Wheel Legends Series with the cars of the 90s CART Series. Like Reynard-Honda, Lola-Ford, Swift-Ford, Penske-Mercedes, Eagle-Toyota, Lola-Buick Menard...
That would be incredible but Motorsport Games happened...
@@THEWINDTUNNELI bet iracing will crank out a Indy console game after the nascar game next year
looks like indycar has gotten slower too, but look at the gap! f1 cars are getting more and more powerful and more grip, indycar is getting less and less powerful and it doesn't seem like its grip is that much better
@R/C Mania probably slower for just 2026
@@mintgoldheart6126 and only slower than 2025 will be, the times at 2023 are going down
@R/C Mania the extra downforce at least balances out some of the loss in straight line speed
@R/C Mania F1 in 2026 maybe gonna be far slower than even Super GT300 1999 cars.
@@mintgoldheart6126 yes. 2026 F1 cars maybe only has 380bhp.
The 90's cars were really amazing, though the costs of running a team sky rocketed, that's why they dumbed them down.
It would have been really interesting to see just how fast they could have evolved. They should have gotten faster than F1...
The cars raced in the last few years of CCWS were not 900 hp. Probably closer to 750. But probably dumbed down a bit to save money.
@@billymc2681 I heard or read they were somewhere near 1,000bhp, and yes, it was getting too much expensive, they dumbed them down a lot. Remember, for example, Penske's special '94 car for Indy, it had a special MB engine just for that one race. It was going the way of Can-Am in the 70's...
Man, how I've loved watching Indycar back in the 90s. Just remmber Mansell or Zanardi.
I loved that Cars from CART and Indycar from 1998 to 2011! Specially with that Blue and White Livery of the Forsythe. Penske also were my favorite.
Beyond the fact that the CART cars of that time are the most beautiful cars of all times!
Need to also try this on a superspeedway with complete trim for both as well. 230 mph sounds even cooler
Michigan International Speedway
@@joelbrooks3198 or Pocono Raceway
Already new the answer before the video started, late 90s/early 2000s CART cars were beasts
I still love the look of the old cars!
Them turbos back in the day would send chills down your spine
Not surprised. Those old cars were so fast, they could do 225+ MPH around Texas Motor Speedway until the driver blacked out.
90s CARTs were scary
The biggest difference was between 1996 and 1997 Indy 500s. I was at both as a kid and it was sad watching the cars go so slow.
The tracks simply can't handle much more speed in terms of safety. The name eludes me but there was a super speedway that the drivers were getting sick from the G load
@@dickfitzwelliner2807 - That was Texas - they (medical personnel) said the g-forces were sending the drivers close to blackout …
Bring back that formula of CART❤
Closer than I expected
Those CART cars were absolute monsters.
And yet still of the pace of f1 at the time.
@@magnusmunch2116 They were heavier.
Please do a 2023 F1 x 2023 Indycar x 2004 F1 x 1999 CART x 2023 Formula E (Gen 3) x 2023 Formula 2 x 2023 Super Formula x Nascar lap times comparasion at Monza, it would be very interesting... I really want to see this 8 cars compete, the results would be amazing.
Cart sounds like a jet when indy is V8 supercar
Not a surprise. Just like a 2003 F1 car can beat a 2023 F1 car. The difference is IndyCar stopped making new cars every year while F1 has spent literally hundreds of millions of dollars in the past two decades... with no appreciable increase in speed or decreased lap times.
Should’ve done another track because the 2022 INDYCAR would catch in the corners but due to Road America being a power track it never got to show it’s potential
Fair enough. This is the most iconic track that they share though
Do Mid Ohio
Power is key when it comes to acceleration. Not much of a surprise to me. Today's car is a bit slower. Put them on an oval and Indy has proven that the new car is just as fast. Scott Dixon JUST beat the cart record for a four lap average this past year at Indy. And that was with 550hp.
Yeah, the superspeedway IR-18 has by far the least drag in all of open wheel racing. It's probably closer to a MotoGP than an F1 car😂
That’s around 700hp in qualifying trim, on the current cars.
But was it the fastest ever around Indy?!?! No... the answer is no.
@@jessecockburn5500 officially yes it was. Arie Lyendyk’s run was an unofficial record and was during a practice run and not under qualifying regulations.
Ok... confusion here... "pole" speed prior record was 1996 Scott Brayton 233.7 mph, the one Dixon beat. Luyendyk did not qualify on pole but broke the 1 and 4 lap, 237.498 and 4 laps at 236.986. He set an unofficial lap of 239.260 in practice. CART's De Ferran broke that record in 2000 with 241.428.
ah yes, the 2022 predecessor
😬🤫😅
I don't care much about the actual speed. Yep, the sound was much better but overall, IndyCar got it together. I'm watching every race since like 8 years and there are just a handful of boring races to count. Only taking away the license from iRacing was one of the biggest mistake. And they should be aware of the drivers asking for more penalties. We don't want this series to be like F1 (you can't fart in a corner).
I agree with you. The only thing I would change is the schedule. It should have at the very list 50% ovals. Removing ovals has cost the series deerly. Average viewers see it as a less sexy/exotic/glamorous F1. F1 is well ahead of IndyCar in viewership now and it's gonna get worse
@@THEWINDTUNNEL I cannot agree more on that. I love IndyCars @ovals. I'm a regular iRacing C fixed since years.
There should be one IndyCar race per year where historical cars are used and they bust out the CART cars from the 90s. Road America or Road Atlanta would be great to do this at. The old liveries and everything.
Lol, that Reynard sent the Eco Racer to La La Land :)
I love these comparison videos, cheers! Is there any chance you could include two different type of tracks on these single head2heads?
One high speed lower downforce like here and one high down force track, street circuit maybe.
We will try something completely different for part 2 ;)
@@THEWINDTUNNEL cheers look forward to it :)
the lead 4 cars were pretty tight in the pack which shows how fast these were despite engine changes
Cool vid, just wanted to point out a little error. The 2022 car is not the predecessor of the 99 car as predecessor means before it should be successor or written the other way round
Yeah, we changed the intro last minute and forgot to correct that. Thank you!
Certainly beat the living heck out of it in the looks department.
Man do I miss those old cars. Looked great, sounded phenomenal, goes like stink.
And the races were highly competitive, close battles, despite having 4 engine suppliers, 5 chassis constructors and 2 tire suppliers in 1999.
Ok, the Penske and last of the AAR Gurney Eagles didn't win anything, but they weren't slouches at least. Come to think of it, maybe Lola didn't win one either, but they were close on numerous occasions thanks to Helio Castroneves driving for a small, underfunded Hogan team blowing expectations out of the water. He probably should have won at Gateway that year. Put it on pole the following week at Milwaukee.
This makes me wonder how quick a 1999 CART car would be with the new repave
Which is faster at low speed corner?
I don't know much about CART or Indy but the tire technology definitely improved over the last 20 yrs, right?
Today's Indycar has broken a lot of the track records set by the cars years ago. This is due to better tires, more efficient aero, and "usable" horsepower.
@fordfocusonme is right, cutrent cars are faster on teisty sections
those old cart cars looked so good.....
I miss the 90s
When a 30 year old car is more futuristic than now.
I remember going to the first race Indy car held at Fontana speedway and the Pole qualifying average speed was about 256 mph average!!! It was nuts seeing that in person!!!
Crazy machines! You might like this: czcams.com/video/aJaQnWhPBUE/video.html
@@THEWINDTUNNEL It was not 256 mph john LOL Prove that to us!
@@DennisMerwood-xk8wp 256 might have been the peak speed.
Greg Moore is the record holder on that track; 236.389 mph was the average speed for a lap time of 30.9 seconds.
@@skaldlouiscyphre2453De Ferran holds the record, it was 241mph, i believe at Fontana 2000 or 2001.
CART Reynard for the nostalgia and the turbocharged v8 but the current car for safety and keeping the series and drivers alive
I believe it was the same mistake as F1.
Increase the weight and width of the cars resulting in difficulties to overtake especially in F1
I knew the answer before watching this video. it was nice to see my prediction confirmed but even nicer to see the margin.
Late 90s Champ Car is PEAK Open Wheel in America!!. It had 2.65L Turbo V8s, Making 1000 Horsepower in Top Road Course Trim(1999), Manufactured by Honda/Ford/Mercedes Benz/Toyota! Going Through a 6-7 Speed Sequential Shifter with Multiple Chassis Companies- Swift/Reynard/Lola/Penske. And a Tyre War Between Firestone and GoodYear!
Held a True World Championship Discipline of Road Courses, Ovals, Street Circuits,and Airports ! Champ Car held Races in Canada/Mexico/Brazil/Australia/Japan/U.S.A., and Later In Germany/ England/ Netherlands/ France!
The Late 90s Champ cars were Brutal Beast. No ABS, No TC (until 2002) No Paddle Shifters (untill 2008) These Beast Still Hold Records at some of the Road Courses and are the fastest ever at the indy500 doing a nearly 240mph lap! They are Till 25 years later some of the Fastest Open Wheel cars in America. And I Grew up with one of the Race teams Right down the road😊
Every lap, every track, every time. But then 1999 CART cars were actually race cars. And not just race cars, but among the greatest race cars ever to see a track. These 2023 IndyCar go-karts are a joke. And the pathetic, failing series will be driving the same Dallara chassis into the ground in 2030, if the series can survive it's pathetic attendance and viewership until then.
1999 CART at Road America - 145.428 MPH
2007 ChampCar at Road America - 143.525 MPH
2022 IndyCar at Road America - 137.799 MPH
Oh yes love this race track I kinda want to do a auto cross event or try to get it a private time thing just to see how fast I can go in my truck
Weird how controlling costs and improving safety slows a car down. Never would’ve imagined.
Well, pretty much every series has done that since the 90s and the cars are faster. F1, NASCAR, Prototypes, GTs, touring cars... That's why IndyCars case is so remarkable. Those CART monsters were just to fast
imagine my surprise when CART is 3 and a half seconds faster than modern indycar
CHAMP CAR was as cool as F1! Those epic Long Beach GP were the stuff of legend!!
I had ZERO doubts.
I’d be interested in a late 90’s IRL car v.
a modern Indy car.
2002 IRL
The only thing we have faster today is lmp1 and McMurtry fan car
The Mercedes engine was 🔥
The Ford Cosworth and the Honda both were more powerful.
Road America is probably the most power-focused road course in the USA outside of maybe the Daytona 24hrs Road Course circuit. Try a comparison at Portland or Mid-Ohio where handling and aero are more important and I'd guarantee that the gap would be significantly closer.
And a perfect illustration of why current indycar is struggling. Bring back exciting kick ass cars/ engines. I won't spend a dime on this current boring indycar series.
CART > all
yup havent watched this since it became basically spec.
WoW . 1999 Car have so much power ? Thats New for me...nice
The old Car Looks nice
I believe that in addition to having 2-300 more horsepower the CART cars weighed 65 kg (143 lbs) less and had about 500-1000 lbs more downforce (if I remember correctly the 1999 Reynard could generate 5500 lbs of downforce at 200 mph (in max downforce trim) compared to 4800 maximum for the Dallara IR-18). This equates to about 4-6 seconds per lap at Road America (I also think it noteworthy that the 1999 CART qualifying and race at Road America were held in VERY hot weather and as a result the track was 1-3 seconds slower than optimal-if it were held in cooler conditions similar to those in the 1997/1998 races lap times would definitely be at least in the 1:39s or even 1:37-1:38 range in qualifying).
Verry interesting!
Will be interesting to see the next Indycar engine with 900 hp for all races.
That would be awesome. Current cars would lap Indy in the 245s easily
Current cars are capped around 550hp on superspeedways while road courses are around 700hp. I wonder what they're going to cap engines at next year.
@@danielhenderson8316 is the other way around, 700 HP at ovals with max turbo boost, and 550 hp.
@@TheJosu145 The only time they get full boost on an oval is for Indy qualifying last year. Superspeedways are about 550, short ovals are about 625, and road courses are at fill power.
I’m not into sim racing but how accurate are these? I guess it probably wouldn’t be too hard to figure out since Indycar/CART still races on many of the same tracks as they did back then. One thing that Target car had really going for it…..Zanardi!!
The 1999 pole was a bit over 4 seconds faster than the 2022 pole at Road America but the track was faster at the time due to a newer surface. In fact, Road America is getting repaved for the 2023 season.
Actually Juan Montoya drove it in 1999 I think.
I mean, I get it, but also look at the new track records being set in the last two years
The old ways are simply better.
Certain logic bets on the uprated driving assists to overcome the HP & weight penalties-not here. Nice to see the beastly beauty beat the beast.
The champ car series was fantastic. Closer racing than F1, and they weren't much slower
Looks better sounds better goes better
While the ‘99 CART Indycar was faster, put modern tires and brakes on that car and it would shave even more seconds off that 1:40 lap time with no effort.
Alex Zanardi cart era
From 1999 to 2000 was J. P. Montoya car.
I'd be curious to see if the result flipped on a track less sensitive to power and more sensitive to aero and tire grip, like Barber.
Hmmm 🤔
fact is i think F1 should be more like group B, no such thing as too fast, if u aint pushing it, u aint fast enough
I miss the CART days
The CART was in it's time the only car that could be a good competition to a Formula 1
Looks like YES.
PLaying 1998 mod from rfactor 1 and the grid is filled with legends
What a season...
90's Molson Indy Toronto Just crushed it!! Now.................Free Fridays and 1/2 the grand stands! Attendance, 90's Race Day, 68,238. Today 25,000 race day. ...2021 An estimated 50,000 fans turned out for three days 3 DAYS!
Faster, certainly. Safer, definitely not. Better racing? Arguable.