I misdiagnosed this 2011 Toyota Tundra, was it my fault?
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- čas přidán 1. 01. 2023
- I missed this one but doing the right thing and taking care of your customer lets them keep their confidence in you and they remain a customer!.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
It takes a real man to admit when he is wrong. Great video! Your a good man sir!!!
This is what we run into these days, always trying to verify what we believe the issue is.
I have 30 years in the field and currently I am tasked with field support and training of over 50 techs, you are a rare find and a breath of fresh air, your approach is spot on and will put you at the top of the field in no time, it has to do with your inquisitive nature and the quest of knowledge that drives you forward.
I frequently get guys that stand there and expect me to just show them where to touch it and its fixed, I wish it was that easy, they do not understand the satisfaction of going through what you just did and coming out as the winner.
Do not beat yourself up over this, you will learn and add these learned skills to your toolbox, as far as the customer goes I would agree with some type of discount and the honest approach but at the end of the day you deserve compensation for your work, a dealer will charge full boat regardless of the repair being successful or not, a dealer would also charge for a replacement harness on top of that module and you saved your customer a lot of money there!! Don't sell yourself short is all I'm trying to say here. We are skilled workers (not grease monkeys as was once referenced) and are becoming hard to find these days, this commands respect and wages are increasing accordingly. Enjoy your future adventures.
You would never of believed you’ve only been doing car diagnostics for 5 years, if your this good now, imagine how good your going to be in another 5 years!
Good day Jake. Five years of experience with your knowledge is commendable. Your approach is what we call critical thinking. In time to come you will realize that experience is vital and has its own reward. I have 40 years behind me and I still learn from you young bucks. Thanks the old school guy.
The only person who doesn't make mistakes is the one who doesn't do anything. I don't consider it a mistake, you solved the problem and it wasn't easy. The module is a standby unit. You are a helluva technician.
This kind of stuff just keeps a fella humble.
I think many of us would have missed this one, on the other hand with only a few wires on that connector and the code being a circuit code, I pull out the CAN inspection card, check for short to ground DONE short to power DONE short to each other NOT DONE. No, I would not recommend this on a large connector but I have learned about rodent damage, I have learned about water entrapment in a low-lying area of a harness, I have learned about metal & plastic clips rubbing into a harness's outer black sheath, and a closer inspection of the harness is needed, thank you for the great case study, thumbs up.
Hi jake beautiful and patient description of what you had to do most techs would have done the same thing but you were patient enough to the extra steps, which will lead to most techs to do the same thing before replacing a part I like the way you incorporated the test light into the voltmeter while checking power and ground.
I watched this one twice to try and better understand what went wrong. When the key is off, you may not see power (or ground) on some of the other wires, so a wire to wire short may be invisible. Also the way a driver can be turned off by its computer to save itself needs to be considered, either on the test wire or the wire it touches. And of course when you pull apart a connector to do testing, a bad connection can be obscured. Most importantly, when you remove a connector you are also disconnecting all the other wires, and if one of those other wires normally leads to ground or power through the module, your wire to wire short is completely invisible! With experience comes humility and wisdom, but also it can paralyze one's thinking because of so many variables. I think most techs would have missed this one. Thanks for posting your experience!
Nobody’s fault. You solved it. Life’s a bitch.
I've had my share of me learning hard lessons. You will never miss that again even when you have a head full of gray hair. Hang in there, you're doing a great job!
CZcams comes in clutch with a new channel! Love this type of repair as it's not my strong suite. Don't be so hard on yourself.
The amount of money that we charge for our time needs to be high enough to at least partially cover those situations, thanks for the great info 👍🏻
Good tech's are very anal. I'm also hard on myself when I miss something. Main thing is you manned up and took care of business. Been a shop owner and tech 40+ years. Trust me this wont be the last mistake you make. Because of your integrity that customer will do business with you forever and tell many others how honest you were. That's worth way more than money! Don't be too hard on yourself. You're a sharp young man and a credit to the profession. God bless!
Wow! Great case study! Thank you for sharing with us! Always variables to testing, I don't think I would've thought of ohming out the wiring like you did.. I know its a test to perform but I probably would've overlooked it. 5 years in, you've definitely applied yourself. Blessings brother!
I don't believe anyone would have found the wire issue, first time around. It can be very difficult to out-think a rodent. They attend different schools. Good job of finding the issue.
It was not you fault that you miss diagnosed the fault. It was great that you found the real problem and fixed it. FANTASTIC!!
Service data doesn't give "what if.." explanations. They also don't publish intentional mistakes. THIS is a higher education!
Ive been doing this for about 45 years and have many mistakes. I used to tell my guys when they where trying to diagnose a code or issue. "Do you know how the system works" If you don't how can you fix it when you are checking what the tester is telling you with no idea what you are testing? I used to lock myself in the car with the wiring diagram and study it thoroughly before i even look at the car. In my opinion fault codes are the reason why techs go off on a tangent. You need 3 things before you start your diagnosis. The code, the complete wiring diagram and a full understanding of how the system works.
I really like your channel brother, keep up the good work. As long as you learn from your mistakes and don't make them again. You clearly have the knowledge.
That’s crazy. Some OEM diagnostic flowcharts include a wire to wire resistance test in addition to the wire to ground resistance check. And don’t forget the “is voltage present?” (Short to power) Test. It goes to show that the ohm check actually is still valuable! Great video!
What is concerning is how many other mechanics who are not as honest would tell the customer that it was the abs module. Great job.
It’s cool to learn from others and we learn from you. ❤️
Job Extremely well done. This just made both of us better troubleshooters. Awesome!
"Eat that humble pie" lol yup that's what makes diagnosticians stronger every day 😁 Great video Jake, happy new year bro!
You still did a great job! One of the best YT videos I've seen.
Thanks for your videos/time+ knowledge. It really helps. Remember what does not kill you just makes you stronger. Keep making videos. Happy new year.
Sir,Your honesty & humbleness & your skills will bring great future in your business & life..deeply appreciated your video.🙏👍
Toyota dropped the ball you picked it up and made a slam dunk. And for you guys out there that think an OHM meter don't have its place think again. Great video and good
job.
I love your videos, its say much about your character to admit your mistakes and make them right with your customer. Even the best make mistakes, my dad always said if you never screw up, your not doing enough. Your customers are lucky to have you, good honest techs that care about the work they do is hard to find these days. Thanks for helping us all learn these systems, they get more complex everyday for sure.
Nice job! You know, that actually gives an answer to the question why dealers just throwing modules at vehicles, at most cases of course. Unfortunately manufacturers cannot cover all the cases, especially such unpredictable ones with the roden damage or water intrusion, as even unrelated circuits can be affected. I been to the field of diag job just 6 months but already seen a cases when badly plugged OWS system on honda throws error for driver seat belt buckle 🤷♂️
Excellent work! Keep it up.
Great video and case study. Thanks for sharing the process that led you to locate the fault and the fix to the problem. Love your work ethic and profesionalism. God Bless You.
Jake excellent video with lots of good troubleshooting alternatives. Damn rodents will get you every time. Thanks for sharing and Happy New Year. 😊
A thorough visual inspection on everything you work on is sometimes thee diagnostic tool that helps you find the problem and not always considered as important as all the testing. Thank you.
You're still really good at it for only doing this for a short amount of time, there is a lot of youtubers and mechanics out there that have been doing this for 10-20 years who don't know half of what you know, even I cringe at some of the stupid shit they say and do, just chalk this up to a learning experience that we all can learn from, this is how we all get better.
perseverance paid off in the end Jake,, good job
Excellent video, just subscribed. Been a fan of Ivan and PHAD for a while. This was definitely a tricky one. I thought where you were going with the ultimate diagnosis was a high resistance in one of the wires where it would test with good continuity, but wouldn’t consistently carry enough current when the circuit was energized in usage (like what you would find with a voltage drop test). Glad you figured it out in the end! Looking forward to checking out your other videos.
Great video! Afue people admit when they ar wrong .. all the respect for you we learn from our misstakes beleave me thanks a lot
Thank you Jake. You did good. Factory info being incomplete is so misleading. Toyota does a horrible job where description and operation is concerned. Their leaving out the micro switch testing was a bummer. I applaud you for your honesty and speaks volumes for your integrity. Sad thing is, most dealerships would have still charged for a module.
You did the right thing… we grow from issues like this, make us better what we do.
Great find 👏. I had a similar situation on power and ground for a fuel pump supply, blown fuse unplugged the connector by the frame, and no blown fuse did the ohms test on the fuel pump side and had a short dropped fuel tank ready to replace the fuel pump and the harness which is about 2 feet from frame to fuel pump was shorted at the connector on the fuel pump side and that connector is solid could not take wires out, split it open with pliers to find one strand of wire made itself across from positive to the ground side. Never I've seen something like that. I found it by luck as I was playing with the customer and said would it be funny if it was just this wire and grabbed a voltmeter and went across positive and negative and had continuity with both ends in my hands. Wish I had a video of it but I only took some pictures.
That was very informative to say the least. I feel for sure that a dealership would have replaced the module according to service data. I would think there should have been some kind of data pid for that switch but not completely sure if that would have helped. To me this shows how valuable switch inputs can be when it comes to condemning a module. Powers, Grounds and switch inputs. You still prevailed in the end and that shows true professionalism!
This one that kicked your ass will be one that makes sure you never "miss" that same failure again. You will make money from this for years to come. Dont beat yourself up, we have all been there (several times) and uts how we learn and improve. Keep the content coming Jake, im really enjoying the content
THIS HAPPENS TO EVERYONE EVEN IF THEY SAY IT DIDN'T ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, GREAT VIDEO , THANKS FOR YOUR TIME PLEASE KEEP THEM COMING !!!!!!!!!👍👍👍
Awesome diag! Persistence buddy!
l love your integrity, you could have easily fixed the wire and said that the module fixed. Kudos to you.
Only just subscribed Fantastic videos you have a great way of explaining what your doing...when you pierce the wiring what do you use to seal the hole...
Bit late watching your video so just going along with it , one question did this booster solenoid circuit have a diagnostic bias voltage on it can't remember you saying , also flow charts are a trap for unwary you are not the first by a very long shot LOL , good video keep them coming your channel is growing 👍👍👍
Thanks for making the screens bigger . Great job though 👍
Good video Jake! FYI I called critters about 5 seconds before you announced it! There are not many OEMs that do a very thorough job of creating a comprehensive service procedure for fault finding especially on electrical components that are not emission related! You may want to incorporate some kind of wiring short to other nearby wires in a harness as part of your circuit checks going forward. Agreed OEMs should indicate the need for such things in their service procedures...
That the OEM manual would have you replace the ABS module without even checking the powers and grounds really shows why dealership shops have such a poor reputation.
Unfortunately a lot of times we are at the mercy of the service info we are given, Given the test you performed honestly, i probably make the same call. But always look at it as a learning experience. you are right we are supposed to be the professionals but we also have to depend on good service info to aid in our diagnostics, also consider this at a dealer ship the vehicle is probably newer and 8 out of 10 times when that code is set an ABS module probably fixes it and is under factory warrant anyways
Great video , showing people we are all human , I know I’d have you in my toolbox if I was up against it. Don’t beat yourself up.
If it's fixed and you didn't give up and send it down the road to leave the customer hanging, it's a great success as far as I'm concerned.
Internal harness shorts are some of the trickiest ones to track down. This one right here will make every one from this point forward that much easier!
Can you make a video of how and what your used to make your light bulb test lights. I like the fact that you used test leads. And items used . Thank you.
GREAT VIDEO
I think the OL on resistance for the Fluke 73 means Over Limit (over range) and for continuity OL means Open Loop. I say I think because I have never owned or been assigned a Fluke 73. I own an old Fluke 23 which looks similar. But, the OL meanings I described I know where correct for my ancient Fluke 87 III, at least amongst the technicians, the manual used the term OverLoad when testing internal fuses and displaying OL. I also have an old Fluke 287 Logging DMM which has more resolution than the 87 III, which in resistance OL is displayed as an over limit but the manual does not really say what OL means on this function. I also have used a Fluke 87 V which worked much like my 87 III, at least for automotive troubleshooting, and OL is further used to represent Overload. So, I guess for Fluke OL has many different meanings depending on the function being used.
If you know the proper current for testing a solenoid you can use a current limited DC power supply to act as the supply rather than the battery and a bulb. The current limited DC supply is much more accurate and predictable in terms of supplying current.
For the load testing of large power feeds I use a 2 Amp resistive load, which is a large enough to detect bad connections and swamp any ghost voltage, and it is smaller than the smallest fuse normally seen in the fuse box which, in my experience, is 3 Amps. I know they make ATC 1 Amp and ATC 2 Amp but I don't really ever see them used.
It is interesting that there is no scan tool active test for the solenoid.
If is frustrating when you have to reverse engineer the code set criteria. Obviously, the troubleshooting guide is incomplete. I have found that cross connecting of wires shorted inside a harness is really not plausible to the engineers determining the failure modes.
Rodent chew damage on harness. I have found the little critters like to sit when they chew. So where-ever they can perch look for a chew mark at head height.
As an old school dealership technician who last worked on other’s vehicles in 1980 . Being I just work on my family’s vehicles. I can’t afford all data or other services. So I tend to fire the parts battalion parts cannon 🥺 but on the good side my vehicles get a lot new parts . Love learning from others on CZcams 👊🏻
Happy New Year
Very unusual case. Toyota should be more specific about the way they test the microswitch signals, because the code wasn't set by the solenoid wires. I think it was almost impossible to foresee touching frayed wires with the test procedures the factory gives you. I think you did right. Happy 2023!
Great going! While viewing scope try squeezing and twisting the harness.I look out for signs of rodent activity-found many nests in air cleaner housings.Wrap or twist up dryer sheets in the under hood area. Moth balls really does good but super strong though. Also a fuse say a 10 amp will almost blow and the current will be low at switch etc. With us there was only 3.5v. At switch don't remember what but after pulling the fuse it was like the size of a pin needle across it..Replaced the fuse and fixed that one..Thanks and thumbs up for ya
Great video Jake. I have a question unrelated to this diagnosis. I was an electronic engineer for a video game company out of Florida years ago, made me think of it because I saw so many video games in the background of your shop.
Do you also work on them?
Super video !!…the thing is you followed the flow chart exactly…if you couldn’t diagnose this there is no way in hell a Toyota Tech would have found it…they would have went through 5 modules and then have given up…then charge the owner the cost of the module and sent him on his way with the same DTC !!
That happens when the mouse its not OEM
Everybody makes mistakes, but only the brave admit it. And by the way, it's not totally your mistake, Toyota should take some of the blame. Great video!
been on the tools for 12 years now with diag/electrical as my main strong point, you'll get your butt bit every now and again with these types of faults but critter damage is a tricky one if you're not used to it. Don't beat yourself up over it and always remember we learn from our mistakes
If you have to buy the module.. I'd go ahead and test it in that truck while you have it, to make sure it works- and you can just sell it used on ebay as "tested, confirmed works", likely where the customer bought it from anyway.
placing load test over ohms test any day is better. ohms check i do at solenoids to know what current the circuit needs. rechecking the whole circuit harness won the battle. when you said guess what it is , no circuit diagram. was along for the ride. still good diagnostic work. keep the videos coming .
Nice guy finish last
You need to get paid for your time brother
Thanks for your video
where do you buy your test leads, I like the ones that piggyback thank you
17 minutes in, I believe you have tested everything. The only thing I could think of that was missing was capturing an amperage signature of the solenoid.. I could be wrong but thats the only thing that came to mind. I know you said no bi-directional controls. But when you manually energized it you couldve caught an amperage waveform...
Just this week I called a bad ABS module on a 06 H3 Hummer, code was C0131 ABS/TCS Pressure ckt malfunction.. the module itself was 500 bucks.. I wanted to save them some money.. replaced it.. still same exact problem.. I believe the assembly has failed.. internal leak.. its a weird system, abs module, pump, accumulator and master cylinder all built into one. GM on the island quoted them 1700 just for the part.. Well.. I made a wrong call and now there going to have to purchase the assembly.. I wanted to reimburse at least half of the money for the part... They would not take it at all.. Live and learn..
Enough of my sob story.. on to the rest of this interesting case study!!!
That code description sucks. It was neither a short nor open in solenoid circuit xD. Did you capture circuit integrity test for this solenoid after repair?
I never follow the checklists because most of the time they neglect to have you check other components that rely on inputs for the module strategy
It was the rodents fault. This happens every day in all in all kinds of shops. Dealers or jobbers. This is why techs/shops have known good parts in there boxes or benches. The good techs admit it and put their hand up. You're one of the best.
1.📞 AllData
2. On your Scanner Guided Component test use it
3. Carryout voltage drop testing on the fuse
To trace the faults
ACCOMPLISHED AUTOMOTIVE DIAGNOSTICS PROGRAMMING
Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us Thank you
ACCOMPLISHED AUTOMOTIVE DIAGNOSTICS PROGRAMMING
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
We all made mistakes specially these electronics modules are notorious to through you off track.most important you got it where its bad.cheers
Always listen to your gut 😁it is a powerful tool
Wouldn’t those wires have showed up with a voltage drop test? Don’t get me wrong I am watching you to learn and I like that you take your time explaining diag. Service info leaves a lot to be desired!!
@@autodiagyt Thank you for the reply! I appreciate the hard work you put into your videos!
Just my opinion, the scope reading was bad. both leads should not be the same voltage if there is current through the solenoid. One lead should be close to ground and the other should be close to positive volts.
Thanks for the lessons.
We all learn from our mistakes Jake!
What did you do before you got into automotive repairs?
That one gets everybody! I personally don’t think a good tech like you should be paying for that unit. Why would you? Because you weren’t born psychic? You don’t catch it loading the circuit. You don’t catch it with the ohm meter (on the coding circuit)? The OE didn’t factor for the possibility in its test procedures? Frankly, the fact that you found it is the amazing part! And you should not be the one paying for that! Good techs are all too often few and far between. And if they’re penalized for not being “all knowing,” there would be even fewer!
I guess I’d have to say I’ve gobbled up humble pie more then I like. Nobody is a hundred percent accurate.
I do however always check any ckt that is power and ground side controlled via the module for a short to ground and each other from now on since component protection is monitored so aggressively. and ya I blew some calls.
Question though
What two wires were touching. I’m assuming power feed to the solenoid and what else?
Was the other wire a ground or One of the signal wires for pedal position?
Hi Jake. Out of all your excellent videos - this is the one I have enjoyed the most! I really liked your technique of using stackable test leads to add a bulb to the DVOM. Do you use this method regularly for checking voltage whilst loading circuits? Until now, I have just been adding a bulb in-line but this method is much cleaner.
Thanks for replying back. What do you use when loading a very low amperage/computer circuit say a 5V pressure sensor. Would you 'stack' a 5W or even an led bulb onto your meter?
Thanks Jake
i hit pause: the only thing i can think of is just cuz the solenoid clicks, doesn't mean it's working. but i saw this same exact thing bite someone in the ass at work a couple years ago (6 years at toyota dealer) and i never did hear what the actual fix was because dude quit
I’m surprised you being as thorough as you are you didn’t amp clamp and scope the solenoid amperage.
There is a difference between “fault” and “responsibility”. This was not your fault however you did the right thing by taking responsibility for a completely out-of-the-box failure not accounted for in any SI. I guarantee you most techs would say “the wiring problem took out the original module and it still needs the new replacement module in addition to the wire repairs”. Actually, most techs would never have found the wire failures (unless by complete accident) but they would have put a booster in it in addition to the module.
@@autodiagyt Of course they could also sell a wiring harness that is no longer available.
I HAVE THE UTMOST RESPECT FOR YOU, IF YOU HAD A LITTLE MORE EXPERIENCE IN TESTING ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS YOU WOULD'VE CHECKED THOSE WIRES FIRST. I'VE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT. CHECK ALL THE WIRES BEFORE YOU REPLACE A UNIT DAMN GOOD JOB CARRY-ON!
Good job ... but at first you must chick harness with voltmeter to see if you have with damage harness
professional or not, at some point, there are unknowns like rodent damage that will bypass OEM tests and your own extra tests. Taking the module out of the equation directs you that there is indeed something else wrong. dont beat yourself up on this one; job well done.
some one said to me test when you condemn an item think what is the next thing if renewing the item dont fix it and then check that just like you did works for me ok a bit more time yet waiting for the miss its going to happen you can allways sell abs unit
its not as easy as people think but yes dont always follow flowcharts
Rare people like you
what scan tool would you get just starting out, in the 1000-1500 range, thanks
Thank you
I work on Toyota. Yes, i read flowchart. U need to know how that system work and what ecu sees and where is code coming from. Load test, scope testing etc. I always take extra steps. I think flowchart is not perfect and u need think outside the box.
Would you be able to use a PWM signal generator and connect it into the ABS sensors? If you raised the vehicle off the ground ran a signal into the 3 non driving wheels, and then with the vehicle in drive had the engine power that wheel to start that wheel rotating, and then send the PWM signal into the other 3 sensors. It should trigger the ABS system because one wheel is too fast which would command the ABS solenoid to actuate.
@@autodiagyt I have been chewing on this for a while. If there is one ABS sensor sending a different wheel speed, it will activate the ABS module. But how can you do it without jacking up the whole vehicle? There is actually a Picocsope answer. If you have a 2204a, it has an AWG (arbitrary wave form generator). You'll see it has 3 ports on it, and the third is the waveform generator. You can stack the AWG lead into the sensor lead and inject that signal into the system and monitor it on the scope at the same time. Or just put the AWG onto the wire and inject the signal without monitoring. Here's an interesting video I found. czcams.com/video/Qj-0W8hp9Rw/video.html
@@autodiagyt Ahh. I see. Ok then, my bad!
My question with this video is, what can a guy do to test and see if that solenoid wire is shorted to something else, you got lucky that the wire was shorted onto another wire on that connector, but what if it was shorted onto a different circuit all together? You tested for a short to ground and it tested out good, what can we do to ensure it’s not shorted onto another circuit?
Shorts to other circuits can be tricky. The only real good method of testing that would be to depin the wire at both ends and check it for any voltage with preferably a scope but a meter can also work. I has a video about a Silverado that kept burning up bcm’s it also might help with some testing techniques for a short to another circuit.
So the lesson: never trust a wire until tested. Law of averages which is from years of experience and is reliable most times, can crap out every once in a while.
@@autodiagyt You can't be blamed for that.
Did that voltage drop go away with the repair?
@@autodiagyt harness open circircuts are cut and dry. Shorted circumstances have had me chasing ghosts for hundreds of hours. You made the logical call, but that simple ohms test saved the day. Many techs would have washed out. Good job saving the diagnostic.
If you credit him the cost of the ABS module then you own it, it becomes your spare not the customer's spare
this is a case that ohming a wire is a bad idea. as long as that wire is continuous it will read fine from point a to b.it says nothing of a cross wire short which would be found by live circuit voltage tests or its current carrying capacity.(test your meter set on ohms with another meter. its probably sending out 3.3 volts at 10 ma) ohming a component is more reliable yet i never completely trust it. just imagine if the wire shorted to it was a control wire for something else, a turn signal a/c clutch whatever. it may be an intermittant and really be crazy to find. mark it up as a learning experience and tuck it away in the back of your head. yep the manufacturers really are bad at circuit description and function including code setting criteria.
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